[Evergrey]

^ You're depressing the hell outta me, Evergrey.

My apologies for the rant.

[DBR96A]

Next time the G20 should be in a city with better weather, like Atlanta...wait, never mind.

[pj3000]

My apologies for the rant.

Oh, no apologies necessary. I know how you feel. The impending doom of winter has me trying to absorb every last bit of sunshine and has given me a rather crappy outlook on my overall position in life lately...

[xyagentguy]

I have to step in and just give me two cents about Pittsburgh weather. To argue that it's not the best weather around would be silly, it most certainly isn't . . I like nice weather just as much as everyone.

And I'm not saying that anyone is guilty of this, but it can NEVER and SHOULD never be argued that the weather has ANYthing to do, at all, with Pittsburgh misfortune. I think some people believe people are flocking to sun-belt cities for nothing more than the weather (which could partially be true) but also that the flocking is what is damaging the rust-best cities so horribly (which is much more untrue).

There are plenty of cities in this country that are most definitely not sun-belt cities and are cities that may even have WORSE weather than Pittsburgh that are still booming, progressive, gaining population, and economically growing.

Seattle would be the biggie that comes to mind, but also Portland, Omaha, and Minneapolis come to the front of my mind.

While some of those cities might not get quite as much rainfall as Pittsburgh, you can't tell me for a second that Pittsburgh's weather is worse than Minneapolis' BLISTERING and HUMID summer and then BONE-CHILLING and SUB-ZERO winter.

I actually live in Seattle, and it is true, Pittsburgh get's more rainfall yearly, but it is mostly heavy rain that doesn't last very long. Seattle has a more misty rain that may not drop heavy, but can linger for days or weeks on end. Winter is almost exclusively dreary and it get's darker much earlier, too.

People hate it, but life goes on. Seattle has seen it's share of the recession, too, but overall, comparatively speaking, is BOOMING. We just passed Boston for the countries second highest concentration of technology companies/developers after Silicon Valley.

While you can PERSONALLY dislike Pittsburgh's weather, Pittsburgh can still be an amazing place to work, live, and grow.

GO PITTSBURGH!! :P

[Wiz Khalifa]

Right... just check out the dramatically more pleasant 5-day forecast for places like Boston, NYC, Phila, DC... and even Harrisburg! Pittsburgh is projected to have a week without sunlight... with persistent rain/drizzle and COLD temperatures.

I've never been one to complain about weather... but I've had it. As I'm living out that iconic Pittsburgh existence of yesteryear... unemployed and overeducated, I'm more than willing to cast my lot anywhere that has more sun and warmth.

And yes... I cringe everytime Dan Onorato or Dennis Yablonsky recite to the media cameras "We're hiring!" or "We have 25,000 job openings in Pittsburgh!".

I wouldn't use the upcoming forecasts as evidence to prove your point, they are rarely ever right. Weathermen have the easiest job in the world, they get paid to be wrong on a regular basis. Like today for instance was predicted to be rainy/cloudy, and that only lasted for the morning. It was sunny and warm the rest of the day. Stuff like that always skews the stats.

I'm not clear on what part of the weather you are complaining about? The cold winter, cloudy skies or both? I myself don't mind the cold and snow at all for the few months it is here.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Oh, no apologies necessary. I know how you feel. The impending doom of winter has me trying to absorb every last bit of sunshine and has given me a rather crappy outlook on my overall position in life lately...

Well, your first problem would be your state of mind going forward. Look for the positives of winter, there actually are many believe it or not, and think about them instead. If you need more sunshine and warmth then take a vacation to socal for a few weeks or Vegas. There's nothing like vacationing in the desert to help make you long for colder temps and cloudier skies.

[Johnland]

Well, your first problem would be your state of mind going forward. Look for the positives of winter, there actually are many believe it or not, and think about them instead. If you need more sunshine and warmth then take a vacation to socal for a few weeks or Vegas. There's nothing like vacationing in the desert to help make you long for colder temps and cloudier skies.

I can do you one better. Try living in Florida for 18 years! I can't tell you how many times I wishfully think about the cool, cloudy climate of Pittsburgh. I know everyone will think I'm crazy, but it can happen that, after a point, constant sunshine loses its initial appeal. It's great when you're inside and the house is bright and light filled due to the sun. But every outdoor moment becomes another matter. The sun is extremely aging to the skin. Any extended periods outdoor require sunblock. Even in the car, the sun hits your arms as you drive, even with tinted windows. Again, I love the brightness it does for being indoors, but it can be almost impossible to avoid outdoors. I remember one year when I lived in Pittsburgh and it rained every weekend for an entire year, even in winter. It wasn't long after I headed down here. Now, some 18 years later, I am so over the Florida climate. True, I will miss the sunny days while being inside, but the thought of a cooler, cloudier climate definitely sounds appealing to me. I know, I know, I will be alone on this one:shrug:

[PittPenn 03]

I can do you one better. Try living in Florida for 18 years! I can't tell you how many times I wishfully think about the cool, cloudy climate of Pittsburgh. I know everyone will think I'm crazy, but it can happen that, after a point, constant sunshine loses its initial appeal. It's great when you're inside and the house is bright and light filled due to the sun. But every outdoor moment becomes another matter. The sun is extremely aging to the skin. Any extended periods outdoor require sunblock. Even in the car, the sun hits your arms as you drive, even with tinted windows. Again, I love the brightness it does for being indoors, but it can be almost impossible to avoid outdoors. I remember one year when I lived in Pittsburgh and it rained every weekend for an entire year, even in winter. It wasn't long after I headed down here. Now, some 18 years later, I am so over the Florida climate. True, I will miss the sunny days while being inside, but the thought of a cooler, cloudier climate definitely sounds appealing to me. I know, I know, I will be alone on this one:shrug:

You are not alone on this. I lived in Atlanta for many years and while the climate maybe isn't quite as miserable as Florida, the more frequent sunlight became horrible to me. I always felt like my eyes and skin were burning when I was out driving. I would have to take naps after being out in the sun because it was just oppressive and would drain all the energy out of me. I have been back for over six years now and I still cherish brisk cloudy days. I am so happy fall is here and winter on the way. I don't particularly care for rain, but I will take the clouds, cold, and even snow over the oppressive sun and heat from any location, any day.

[pj3000]

Well, your first problem would be your state of mind going forward. Look for the positives of winter, there actually are many believe it or not, and think about them instead. If you need more sunshine and warmth then take a vacation to socal for a few weeks or Vegas. There's nothing like vacationing in the desert to help make you long for colder temps and cloudier skies.

I know, Wiz. I was being a little melodramatic with the whole "impending doom of winter" thing.

Overall, I just really despise the weather in Pittsburgh from about January thru March (November and December are really kinda crappy too, but by January I'm just sick of it). We've discussed it before on this forum. The thing is, the Pittsburgh "winter" sucks. You get all the nastiness of the winter season, with very few of the niceties. It gets just as cold (or colder) here as places to the north, yet we get hardly any snow. If it does snow, it's gone within a day or two, not from the sun melting it mind you, but rather due to a cold, freezing rain a few times a week. I don't really mind the snow and cold. The ground blanketed in white is very pretty and makes the day much brighter, sun or no sun. However, in Pittsburgh, it's not like that. We are surrounded by brown, muddy hills and gray skies for the vast majority of winter.

For as beautiful of a city as Pittsburgh is in summer and autumn, it is downright ugly in the winter/early spring. I always have to laugh when Pittsburghers make fun of people living in Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, etc. about the amount of snow they get in the winter. Well, I'd actually take a winter in any of those cities any day over Pittsburgh's poor excuse. Of the 3 northern cities in which I've lived (Erie, NYC, Pittsburgh), Pittsburgh experiences by far the ugliest weather in the winter.

My feeling is... if it's gonna be winter, then give me winter, dammit!

Just a little rant about the weather to start the day. :)

[hyperion1110]

I know, Wiz. I was being a little melodramatic with the whole "impending doom of winter" thing.

Overall, I just really despise the weather in Pittsburgh from about January thru March (November and December are really kinda crappy too, but by January I'm just sick of it). We've discussed it before on this forum. The thing is, the Pittsburgh "winter" sucks. You get all the nastiness of the winter season, with very few of the niceties. It gets just as cold (or colder) here as places to the north, yet we get hardly any snow. If it does snow, it's gone within a day or two, not from the sun melting it mind you, but rather due to a cold, freezing rain a few times a week. I don't really mind the snow and cold. The ground blanketed in white is very pretty and makes the day much brighter, sun or no sun. However, in Pittsburgh, it's not like that. We are surrounded by brown, muddy hills and gray skies for the vast majority of winter.

For as beautiful of a city as Pittsburgh is in summer and autumn, it is downright ugly in the winter/early spring. I always have to laugh when Pittsburghers make fun of people living in Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, etc. about the amount of snow they get in the winter. Well, I'd actually take a winter in any of those cities any day over Pittsburgh's poor excuse. Of the 3 northern cities in which I've lived (Erie, NYC, Pittsburgh), Pittsburgh experiences by far the ugliest weather in the winter.

My feeling is... if it's gonna be winter, then give me winter, dammit!

Just a little rant about the weather to start the day. :)

Okay, so someone else noticed how ugly brown the hills are in winter. That's the only thing that gets me.

This may seem heretical, but winter is actually my second favorite season in Pittsburgh, after autumn. The reason? The darkness. I know a lot of people don't like that it gets dark early, and I can understand that to an extent. But, the thing to keep in mind is that, in the city, there really is no such thing as darkness. I guess you actually have to have grown up inside of a large city to know what I mean. Because, growing up, I thought the night sky was actually purple, owing the reflection of the yellow lights off of the clouds. So, for me, the night isn't really associated with darkness, but this kinda subdued, warm light all around, accompanied by the sounds of cars and trains. Even with that aside, Pittsburgh, as we all know, is STUNNING at night. I don't think you would ever overstate just how beautiful the city is in the darkness. Indeed, I submit that the reason folks flock to Grandview Ave and the rest of the overlooks is not to see the city in the day, but in the night.

All that said, I've lived in Morristown, NJ, Sandusky, OH, and Jackson, MS, and, I must say, Pittsburgh's weather is superior to any of them. First, the humidity: each of these three cities, while being "sunnier" than Pgh, is also much, much more humid. Second, both Sandusky and Morristown have weather extremes that Pittsburgh does not have. Summers in Sandusky can be sunny one second, and the next, it's like a hurricane has formed right on top of you. In Jackson, the heat in February is so great that by 10 AM you can fry an egg on a metal door (which I had).

Sorry, folks, I must disagree. Pittsburgh can be dreary, rainy, snowy, and humid. But, all things considered, it actually has a very, very moderate climate. I mean, there is almost no place on this whole continent that lacks any kind of weather extremes.

My observations of some "boom" cities:

Atlanta - WAY too humid and hot
Charlotte - See Atlanta
All of Florida - See Atlanta, plus so much sun you turn into raisins
Dallas/Austin/Houston - Atlanta heat/humidity on steroids
Las Vegas - Only an idiot would live in the desert
Phoenix - See LV
Denver - Snow in June?!

Just my personal observations of the weather (not the places!!! they're all awesome in their own way!).

[bruchaus]

anyone have finished pictures of the gates center?

[Wiz Khalifa]

I know, Wiz. I was being a little melodramatic with the whole "impending doom of winter" thing.

Overall, I just really despise the weather in Pittsburgh from about January thru March (November and December are really kinda crappy too, but by January I'm just sick of it). We've discussed it before on this forum. The thing is, the Pittsburgh "winter" sucks. You get all the nastiness of the winter season, with very few of the niceties. It gets just as cold (or colder) here as places to the north, yet we get hardly any snow. If it does snow, it's gone within a day or two, not from the sun melting it mind you, but rather due to a cold, freezing rain a few times a week. I don't really mind the snow and cold. The ground blanketed in white is very pretty and makes the day much brighter, sun or no sun. However, in Pittsburgh, it's not like that. We are surrounded by brown, muddy hills and gray skies for the vast majority of winter.

For as beautiful of a city as Pittsburgh is in summer and autumn, it is downright ugly in the winter/early spring. I always have to laugh when Pittsburghers make fun of people living in Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, etc. about the amount of snow they get in the winter. Well, I'd actually take a winter in any of those cities any day over Pittsburgh's poor excuse. Of the 3 northern cities in which I've lived (Erie, NYC, Pittsburgh), Pittsburgh experiences by far the ugliest weather in the winter.

My feeling is... if it's gonna be winter, then give me winter, dammit!

Just a little rant about the weather to start the day. :)

I agree that we don't get as much snow as we used to which is a shame, global warming's fault? I remember in the 90's growing up there was at least one huge blizzard every winter that dumped feet of snow on the ground. But snow in the city to me is overrated, (if you aren't a kid looking to get snow days) and more snow simply equals more shoveling and more damage to the roads.

You don't have to go far to still see massive amounts of snow. I was at seven springs a few years ago and they got dumped on by 39 inches in 24 hours, which ended up being like 8 back here, but I think that's a good thing. Too many people like to complain about snow and when they move to warmer climates, their number one excuse is "too much snow". So I think of it as a positive towards helping to retain people by having less snowfall in Pittsburgh than other mid-western cities.

My remedy for hating the winter season is to pick up a winter sport like skiing or snowboarding, trust me on this but you will start loving winter if you get into either of these.

[Wiz Khalifa]

You are not alone on this. I lived in Atlanta for many years and while the climate maybe isn't quite as miserable as Florida, the more frequent sunlight became horrible to me. I always felt like my eyes and skin were burning when I was out driving. I would have to take naps after being out in the sun because it was just oppressive and would drain all the energy out of me. I have been back for over six years now and I still cherish brisk cloudy days. I am so happy fall is here and winter on the way. I don't particularly care for rain, but I will take the clouds, cold, and even snow over the oppressive sun and heat from any location, any day.

Seriously, you can't beat the seasons for breaking up the otherwise monotony of the year going by. How are you supposed to enjoy the heat of summer if it never really goes away all year, and comes back with a vengeance every summer? This sounds like a living hell to me personally. Great places to vacation but not to live.

Also, speaking of how laughable the weather forecasts are in general. Did anyone notice that today was predicted to be rainy and cold/cloudy by the joke weathermen? So, I guess 2 hours of hit and miss showers in the morning followed by perfect sunny, warm weather for the rest of the day is considered "rainy" to these people. And this will probably be chalked up as one of the "gloomy cloudy days in the dreary year-long weather of Pittsburgh". Weather forecasters = :jester:

[cdc]

Okay, so someone else noticed how ugly brown the hills are in winter. That's the only thing that gets me.

...

All that said, I've lived in Morristown, NJ, Sandusky, OH, and Jackson, MS, and, I must say, Pittsburgh's weather is superior to any of them. First, the humidity: each of these three cities, while being "sunnier" than Pgh, is also much, much more humid. Second, both Sandusky and Morristown have weather extremes that Pittsburgh does not have.

...
Denver - Snow in June?!



Hyperion, I used to live in Morristown NJ too (well, Morris Township
to be precise, but within walking distance of the town square). I
don't the there is that much difference between the weather here or
there... the summers are mild. The main difference is the winters
where you are more prone to Nor'easters in NJ while PGH has alot more
"snow showers" days where you get like one inch of snow for several
days in a row.

By the way, parts of Colorado are stuck with ugly brown hills
year-round as the pine beetles are killing loads of trees up in the
mountains...


The main thing I don't like about the PGH weather is when it gets
really cold (e.g. when it goes to single digit temps, usually in
January). That makes walking to work a bit painful. Otherwise, PGH
weather doesn't really bother me...

[PA Pride]

Okay, so someone else noticed how ugly brown the hills are in winter. That's the only thing that gets me.

Compare to desirable LA. They are staring at bare brown hills in winter too. Quite ugly.

But i do agree with you. I hate seeing all the grey/brown trees & hills for several months. It does feel very melancholy(at best).

[PA Pride]

anyone have finished pictures of the gates center?

I've been wanting to see some too!

Not sure if you saw these but Deja Vu posted the best photos yet of the nearly complete Gates & Hillman centers:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100544&page=333&highlight=gates+center

[pj3000]

Compare to desirable LA. They are staring at bare brown hills in winter too. Quite ugly.

But i do agree with you. I hate seeing all the grey/brown trees & hills for several months. It does feel very melancholy(at best).

Yeah, but the "winter" weather in LA is quite a bit different than the winter weather here... I think we can all agree on that one.

That's the thing... if Pittsburgh actually got a decent amount of snow to go along with its frigid winter temps, it wouldn't be so brown and it would be far more tolerable (and less ugly) to me. Pittsburgh gets all of the worst winter has to offer (single digit temps, no sun, freezing rain/ice, slush, etc.) with little of what really makes winter, winter (snow). It's just blah.

Complaining about the weather is obviously a pointless exercise, but Pittsburgh's crappy winters are a deterrent to many people looking to relocate or stay here.

[hyperion1110]

Hyperion, I used to live in Morristown NJ too (well, Morris Township
to be precise, but within walking distance of the town square). I
don't the there is that much difference between the weather here or
there... the summers are mild. The main difference is the winters
where you are more prone to Nor'easters in NJ while PGH has alot more
"snow showers" days where you get like one inch of snow for several
days in a row.

By the way, parts of Colorado are stuck with ugly brown hills
year-round as the pine beetles are killing loads of trees up in the
mountains...


The main thing I don't like about the PGH weather is when it gets
really cold (e.g. when it goes to single digit temps, usually in
January). That makes walking to work a bit painful. Otherwise, PGH
weather doesn't really bother me...

Perhaps it was my perception of Morristown, but it really did feel hotter and stickier to me. Then again, it could also be when I was there. 2002 might have been a warm year there, for all I know. Otherwise, I enjoyed the town. I forget the name of the place, but, for $4, you could get 4 giant, whole chicken wings and a mountain of fried rice. LOL...I think I gained like 10lbs. that summer!

[Wiz Khalifa]

Five Things That Could Dramatically Shape Pittsburgh's Future


http://www.popcitymedia.com/features/5thingsfuture0923.aspx


John Denny Wednesday, September 23, 2009

Related Tags
Education, energy, outdoor recreation, Pittsburgh Promise

O.K. we've turned the corner. We've already identified several major initiatives (see previous article here) and the individuals involved with them that helped Pittsburgh turn the corner. But what are the big things happening right now and who's driving those changes that will get us down the highway of success in the next 10 years?

Here's my list of five things that will dramatically change the face of Pittsburgh.

The Pittsburgh Promise – No other initiative even comes close, offering up to $5000 per year toward college tuition to any student who makes the grade in the Pittsburgh Public Schools. This will change the lives of families and accelerate the economic and population growth in the City. But most importantly, it gets Pittsburghers back to thinking big and taking big risks. The goal is $250 million and we are already halfway there thanks to UPMC, Superintendent Mark Roosevelt, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, and the Pittsburgh Foundation, including Saleem Gabriel and Grant Oliphant.

Energy – It's our future and Pittsburgh will be a leader in the new energy sector. All the stars are aligned: rising energy costs, global warming, dependence on foreign oil and national security, and Southwestern PA energy- rich resources, from university research and foundation focus, to local economic development agencies' priority (Allegheny Conference) in creating a thriving energy sector. So who are the drivers? Yes, there are Westinghouse, Consol and the National Energy Technology Lab, to name a few – but some of the newer drivers include Chris Gabriel of the Heinz Endowments, Pat Getty of the Benedum Foundation, the 3 Rivers Clean Energy Coalition directed by Jan Lauer, Matt Mehalik with Sustainable Pittsburgh's Business Climate Coalition, Tim Fogerty and the new energy investment program at Innovation Works, Bill Cagney and Operating Engineers Local 95 and it's nationally recognized training program in green building operations. Last but not least, where would we be without the Green Building Alliance?

Balanced Budgets – I'm talking about the City of Pittsburgh. Five short years ago the City was on the brink of bankruptcy. Today, City government has been right-sized, and surplus fund balance achieved without any property or wage tax increases. While we're not out of the woods yet, who lead Pittsburgh to the clearing? The ACT 47 Team under the strong fiscal leadership of Jim Roberts with Eckert Seamans and Barbara McNees who brought sensibility and steadiness to the state appointed oversight committee. Why is this important? Beyond the fact that the strength of the core (City) impacts the strength of the region (SWPA), Pittsburgh like all municipalities have limited taxing options, but many mandates from the State. If Pittsburgh is not able to solve its structural deficit than it's two options would be more severe cuts, or raise taxes (property and business taxes). This would create a two tiered city of rich and poor with no middle class.

Pittsburgh Parks – Frick, Highland, Riverview, Schenley, Schenley Plaza, North and South Parks, Boyce Park, Settlers Cabin, and Hartwood Acres. And under construction: the Grandview Scenic Byways Park in Mt. Washington, a park that combines urban elements, such as Grandview Avenue and the scenic overlooks, with green space and parks throughout Mt. Washington. These are unquestionably some of the best urban parks in the country and they attract 5 million visitors a year. Few communities have the level of green and recreation space as we do. And it's getting better. Why? The Pittsburgh Parks Conservancy, founded in 1996, has raised over $40 million, completed nine major capital projects, planted thousands of trees, and provided tens of thousands of hours of volunteer service in the parks. Who's leading this? The one and only Meg Cheever! Building on the success of the City Parks, County Executive Dan Onorato, in partnership with John Surma, CEO of US Steel, Max King, Scott Izzo, and Karen Feinstein from the Heinz, R.K. Mellon, and Jewish Healthcare Foundations, and Carol Brown, former County Parks Director and president of the Cultural Trust formed the Allegheny County Parks Foundation – stay tuned!

North Shore Connector – WHAT? Are you nuts? Not at all. Contrary to some public outrage, the completion of the North Shore Connector will change everything. Development on the North Shore will explode. Business development and new housing along the T will expand. Future plans submitted to the Federal government to connect the T to either Oakland or the North Hills or possibly the airport will begin to take hold. And it will show once again that Pittsburghers can dream big dreams and complete big projects. Plans for the North Shore Connector began more than 15 years ago under the leadership of former County Commissioner Tom Foerester, former Port Authority Director Bill Millar, Secretary of Transportation Al Beihler, and former CEO of Alcoa and then Chair of the Allegheny Conference Paul O'Neill.

That's my list. Many more could and should be added like the building of the new civic arena, the increased investment in and establishment of Pittsburgh as a major medical research center and conversations around city and county unification.

[Evergrey]

I know, Wiz. I was being a little melodramatic with the whole "impending doom of winter" thing.

Overall, I just really despise the weather in Pittsburgh from about January thru March (November and December are really kinda crappy too, but by January I'm just sick of it). We've discussed it before on this forum. The thing is, the Pittsburgh "winter" sucks. You get all the nastiness of the winter season, with very few of the niceties. It gets just as cold (or colder) here as places to the north, yet we get hardly any snow. If it does snow, it's gone within a day or two, not from the sun melting it mind you, but rather due to a cold, freezing rain a few times a week. I don't really mind the snow and cold. The ground blanketed in white is very pretty and makes the day much brighter, sun or no sun. However, in Pittsburgh, it's not like that. We are surrounded by brown, muddy hills and gray skies for the vast majority of winter.

For as beautiful of a city as Pittsburgh is in summer and autumn, it is downright ugly in the winter/early spring. I always have to laugh when Pittsburghers make fun of people living in Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, etc. about the amount of snow they get in the winter. Well, I'd actually take a winter in any of those cities any day over Pittsburgh's poor excuse. Of the 3 northern cities in which I've lived (Erie, NYC, Pittsburgh), Pittsburgh experiences by far the ugliest weather in the winter.

My feeling is... if it's gonna be winter, then give me winter, dammit!

Just a little rant about the weather to start the day. :)

Agreed completely... it's incredible how those green lush hills of summertime turn into such awful mounds of grey-brown sloppiness in the non-summer months

...


gah... it's was so depressing to see everybody in town breaking out the scarves and winter hats today... 50F is great in January... but it's a real shock to the system right now

...

I used to make fun of those who complained about the weather... but the past 12 months have been the worst I've ever experienced... last fall was cold and wet... Nov felt like Jan... Jan felt like Antarctica... March was actually amazingly nice... summer was very strangely cool... it was cool and sunny for the first half... but cool and messy for the second half... and we probably didn't get a week's worth of truly hot summer weather... definitely missed out on that sensation this year... and now the beginning of autumn 2009 is turning out quite wretched

...

We were the second coldest major metro in the country today... ahead of only Minneapolis... which is basically the Arctic Circle... one thing I've noticed... is that Pittsburgh has usually had the biggest departure below normal temperatures in the country throughout the year... we were almost 20 degrees below normal highs for today...

...

If 98% of the populated U.S. has better weather than we do here in Pittsburgh... that creates a huge challenge in attracting and retaining population here... how do we get someone used to significantly better weather in places like Baltimore or Kansas City or NYC to put up with all the darkness and sloppiness and dreariness of the Pittsburgh climate?

...

Snow does rule and makes winter more tolerable... though I don't know if I would wish for the occasionally crippling lake effect snow dumps of the Cleveland-Erie-Buffalo region... and those 12 inch April snowstorms those cities seem to experience every spring would totally suck

[Evergrey]

Complaining about the weather is obviously a pointless exercise, but Pittsburgh's crappy winters are a deterrent to many people looking to relocate or stay here.

It is pointless... nobody can change the weather... but people can change the climate they experience... by moving... and that chart I posted clearly demonstrates the strong correlation between population growth and winter temperatures in the highly mobile U.S. of the postwar era

[Wiz Khalifa]

It is pointless... nobody can change the weather... but people can change the climate they experience... by moving... and that chart I posted clearly demonstrates the strong correlation between population growth and winter temperatures in the highly mobile U.S. of the postwar era

I'm pretty sure that that trend is changing, Florida lost population for the first time since it was settled in the 1500's ... and California would be currently losing population at an alarming rate due to massive domestic out-migration if it wasn't for the all the illegals coming in. As more and more people discover that the Sunbelt suburbia is not all that it was stacked up to be, they are moving back to the cheaper, better developed areas in the middle/north sections of the country.

You are really exaggerating how bad the weather is here, worse than 98% of the country? That must have have been some extensive research you did there, regardless it was one day. If you kept that up for a week or two that number would come down a lot. I actually enjoyed the weather today, and its not like it isn't going to warm up again in the next few days.

To me, the weather in Miami is the worst in the country. I just was checking the conditions there and its 85 degrees at 85% humidity at 2 freakin am. Would you rather have that? I would take the 50s and clouds and rain occasionally over that smothering heat/humidity for 7 months out of the year. South Florida weather year round would drive me batshit insane, yet here I only have the minor complaint of complaint of overly cloudy winters.

If you can't tolerate a chilly rainy couple of fall days, then maybe you should move to south Florida and experience the eternal heat and humidity... whatever it takes for you to stop complaining about the weather in Pittsburgh.

[Wave]

I get just as annoyed by our weather than the next person in the Dec-Feb period especially, but that being said, here is my take on our weather:

1. We are warmer year round than many cities which seem to do a great job of attracting residents and growing/thriving: Minneapolis, Chicago, Montreal, Toronto and most of New England

2. Less snow than Boston (actually almost all of New England), Denver and most Canadian cities

3. Sunnier than Seattle and probably Portland

4. Overall better weather than much of northern and western Europe. I mean, clearly we have superior weather than almost all of England, Scotland and Ireland- which all have notoriously awful weather. Much of western europe and all of northern europe and scandanavia have cold cloudy winters and cool summers. I spent almost the entire month of June in London in 1991 and we received about two days that were dry (forget sun). If you thought our Pittsburgh summer was on the cool side this year, temps in most of those parts of Europe have summer average highs in the low to mid 70's at best with cool nights. Worse the further west and north you go.

5. Many/most cities in the northcentral, midwest and New England even if not necessarily having worse winters than Pittburgh definitely are comparable: Cincinnati (growing), Columbus (growing and thriving), Indianapolis (also growing), Hartford, Chicago, Boston, Portland Me., etc.

All of these above cities (other than most european ones which, while extremely attractive and quality of life friendly, are stable or dropping population-wise due to low birth rate and lack of immigration) all seem to be at the very least part of growing metroplitan areas and thriving. I believe that It's an even playing field, as far as weather is concerned with all of the above these cities.

I do believe that weather is a reason for out-migration from the burgh and can be a disadvantage, but it is only one factor of many.

[Johnland]

I'm pretty sure that that trend is changing, Florida lost population for the first time since it was settled in the 1500's ... and California would be currently losing population at an alarming rate due to massive domestic out-migration if it wasn't for the all the illegals coming in. As more and more people discover that the Sunbelt suburbia is not all that it was stacked up to be, they are moving back to the cheaper, better developed areas in the middle/north sections of the country.

Florida did lose population over the past year or two. I think that was mostly attributable to the economy. We are so reliant on in-migration from other states for a big portion of our growth. When people in other states couldn't sell their homes, they couldn't move.

However, your point about Sunbelt suburbia not being what it used to be is dead on. Yes, warmer, sunnier weather is extremely pleasant, especially when coming from Pittsburgh. However, when you are constanly driving on increasingly crowded roads and seeing the rampant destruction of former wetlands and wildlife habitat to make way for car-oriented sprawl development, it begins to look less appealing. So a Pittsburgher decides to make the move and enjoy the sun for themself. Fine. But you have to remember that thousands of Clevelanders and Detroiters and Chicagoans, etc are doing the same thing. And you'll sit there at car clogged intersections on 4 lanes being widened to 8 lanes watching them all parade past you, all trying to enjoy that sun at the same time. Walkable urban neighborhoods? They don't exist except for that tiny, tropical Manhattan by the sea - South Beach. Otherwise, it's a sea of growing asphalt parking lots and subdivisions that, in the end, are just really another New Jersey, only sunnier (and hotter).

The Florida of alot of peoples' imagination has vanished. If there was a golden era, it may have been from the 50's through the very early 80's. Cost of housing, land, insurance and taxes were low. Congestion wasn't too bad. Now, the state is very 'urban' by technical definition, but is all car-dependant.

I'm not saying it's miserable, I'm just saying that, to me, the weather advantage is being somewhat equalized as time goes by.

[dugdogmaster]

Orlando is more walkable and compact than people generally think:D

[hyperion1110]

Agreed completely... it's incredible how those green lush hills of summertime turn into such awful mounds of grey-brown sloppiness in the non-summer months

...


gah... it's was so depressing to see everybody in town breaking out the scarves and winter hats today... 50F is great in January... but it's a real shock to the system right now

...

I used to make fun of those who complained about the weather... but the past 12 months have been the worst I've ever experienced... last fall was cold and wet... Nov felt like Jan... Jan felt like Antarctica... March was actually amazingly nice... summer was very strangely cool... it was cool and sunny for the first half... but cool and messy for the second half... and we probably didn't get a week's worth of truly hot summer weather... definitely missed out on that sensation this year... and now the beginning of autumn 2009 is turning out quite wretched

...

We were the second coldest major metro in the country today... ahead of only Minneapolis... which is basically the Arctic Circle... one thing I've noticed... is that Pittsburgh has usually had the biggest departure below normal temperatures in the country throughout the year... we were almost 20 degrees below normal highs for today...

...

If 98% of the populated U.S. has better weather than we do here in Pittsburgh... that creates a huge challenge in attracting and retaining population here... how do we get someone used to significantly better weather in places like Baltimore or Kansas City or NYC to put up with all the darkness and sloppiness and dreariness of the Pittsburgh climate?

...

Snow does rule and makes winter more tolerable... though I don't know if I would wish for the occasionally crippling lake effect snow dumps of the Cleveland-Erie-Buffalo region... and those 12 inch April snowstorms those cities seem to experience every spring would totally suck

Evergrey, that was uncharacteristically depressing. I hope things start to look up for you. As for the comment about the weather last fall, I have to disagree. I took a trip from Pittsburgh to Upstate New York at the end of October last year. Pittsburgh was completely sunny that day and warm (in the 70's), as it had been many days beforehand. And all of the trees were still lush and green. New York, while only being about 200 miles north, was noticeably colder and wetter, and the leaves were well into changing. Actually, I remember noting even into November last year how warm and green it was still.

As others have noted, Pittsburgh's weather is not uncharacteristically bad for the latitude. We're 40 degrees north, and we really do experience four seasons. Even this past year, I noticed four seasons, though both winter and summer seemed milder to me.

Without trying to spark a debate about global warming, the most probably cause for the persistent cooler weather is Solar Min; it's a 22 year cycle of local minima in solar output. Usually, old Sol is pretty darn stable as stars go, so we typically don't notice Solar Min (or Solar Max, for that matter), other than to note the decrease in visible sunspots. Anyhow, it does take a leap of logic to determine the relationship between decreased solar output and our unseasonably cold temperatures.

[xyagentguy]

If 98% of the populated U.S. has better weather than we do here in Pittsburgh... that creates a huge challenge in attracting and retaining population here... how do we get someone used to significantly better weather in places like Baltimore or Kansas City or NYC to put up with all the darkness and sloppiness and dreariness of the Pittsburgh climate?
You guys are leaving a big part out of this conversation, the fact that you aren't accounting for the other extreme.

Yes, Pittsburgh is known for some serious dreary, wintry, or rainy weather. And maybe in THAT regard, most other major metro's are better off. But what about ridiculous heat, humidity, and smoldering months? Pittsburgh is no stranger to a few uncomfortably, humid, summer days, but they are usually trickled in among pleasant days.

How about the ENTIRE summer season of some cities are just downright unbearable for a great many people. Sure, Florida is beautiful during winter, but have you ever lived there during the summer? I have, and I wanted to KILL myself!! People don't even live their lives in the summer, they run from house to car to business to car to house in the hopes of never being without cold air for longer than 60 seconds.

While there is no such movement as chasing-the-rain (as oppose to sun-belters chasing-the-sun) there are still scores and scores of people who would not or could not live in many of the hottest parts of the country.

Not to mention that while rain is dreary, it is life-giving, and would you want to be in the south or area's of the country that have SEVERE droughts where water can be rationed as strict as two gallons per day??? Anyone remember Atlanta the past several years??? (of course, ironically, they had major flooding this year).

So while most people inherently believe Pittsburgh's weather may be worse off than 98% of the country based purely on rainy days or what have you, that is very misleading.

Another example is some of the midwest like Omaha and Minneapolis (and even Chicago to an extend) where they have EXTREME weather patterns. Sure, Pittsburgh can get FAIRLY hot in the summer and may have more than a few bitter days in the winter, but overall, our temperates are NOTHING like the extremes in the midwest where summer time is just BLISTERING and winter is below zero for many days on end, not to mention their severe thunderstorm and tornado patterns.

Likes and dislikes in terms of weather are based on such individual tastes. My brother LOVES Pittsburgh winter's and here I am in Seattle and love the freshness and greeness that all the rain brings.

There are a few universal truths about weather, and I'm sure no one is trying to say Pittsburgh has better weather than 75-degree-all-year-round San Diego, etc, but alot of this is in the eyes of the beholder and I am thankful Pittsburgh has four seasons and doesn't have some WICKED, dried-up, water-rationing summer nor a sub-arctic, Fargo-esque, burrowing out of the house winter.

[Wiz Khalifa]

You guys are leaving a big part out of this conversation, the fact that you aren't accounting for the other extreme.

Yes, Pittsburgh is known for some serious dreary, wintry, or rainy weather. And maybe in THAT regard, most other major metro's are better off. But what about ridiculous heat, humidity, and smoldering months? Pittsburgh is no stranger to a few uncomfortably, humid, summer days, but they are usually trickled in among pleasant days.

How about the ENTIRE summer season of some cities are just downright unbearable for a great many people. Sure, Florida is beautiful during winter, but have you ever lived there during the summer? I have, and I wanted to KILL myself!! People don't even live their lives in the summer, they run from house to car to business to car to house in the hopes of never being without cold air for longer than 60 seconds.



While there is no such movement as chasing-the-rain (as oppose to sun-belters chasing-the-sun) there are still scores and scores of people who would not or could not live in many of the hottest parts of the country.

Not to mention that while rain is dreary, it is life-giving, and would you want to be in the south or area's of the country that have SEVERE droughts where water can be rationed as strict as two gallons per day??? Anyone remember Atlanta the past several years??? (of course, ironically, they had major flooding this year).

So while most people inherently believe Pittsburgh's weather may be worse off than 98% of the country based purely on rainy days or what have you, that is very misleading.

Another example is some of the midwest like Omaha and Minneapolis (and even Chicago to an extend) where they have EXTREME weather patterns. Sure, Pittsburgh can get FAIRLY hot in the summer and may have more than a few bitter days in the winter, but overall, our temperates are NOTHING like the extremes in the midwest where summer time is just BLISTERING and winter is below zero for many days on end, not to mention their severe thunderstorm and tornado patterns.

Likes and dislikes in terms of weather are based on such individual tastes. My brother LOVES Pittsburgh winter's and here I am in Seattle and love the freshness and greeness that all the rain brings.

There are a few universal truths about weather, and I'm sure no one is trying to say Pittsburgh has better weather than 75-degree-all-year-round San Diego, etc, but alot of this is in the eyes of the beholder and I am thankful Pittsburgh has four seasons and doesn't have some WICKED, dried-up, water-rationing summer nor a sub-arctic, Fargo-esque, burrowing out of the house winter.

^^^This

That should wrap up the weather debate in this thread. People that endlessly complain about the weather in Pittsburgh and think that everywhere else is so much better in comparison are either A) pessimistic haters or B) don't get out/around much.

Though with all of the grumpy old people that live around here, most would probably fall under C) all of the above...

[Evergrey]

FROST ADVISORY: Protect your sensitive plants!

...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_645665.html

Slice of mixed-income housing offers further hope to North Side

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-09-29/0930federal1-a.jpg
The newly completed Federal Hill Homes along Federal Street in the North Side is another indicator of the neighborhood's revitalization, officials say.
Justin Merriman/Tribune-Review

By Adam Brandolph
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
Last updated: 3:06 pm

The transformation of a once-blighted North Side corridor is still in its infancy, but city officials and neighbors say the future is bright.

Recent additions to Federal Street near Allegheny General Hospital include a doctor's office, new eateries and a Carnegie Library branch that opened last month. A Crazy Mocha coffee shop soon will open at Federal and North Avenue, and officials say a bank is in negotiations to lease a nearby location.

"When people think of the North Side, they identify with this intersection right here, and for too long that has had a negative connotation," Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, a North Side native, said Tuesday.

"The good news is that just as the city transformed its image with the G-20 summit last week, so is the North Side."

Neighborhood leaders say the revitalization of Central North Side officially began yesterday with a ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of the first phase of Federal Hill Homes, a mixed-income development two blocks up from North Avenue. The city's Urban Redevelopment Authority, the state and private financiers are paying to build 60 homes.

Twenty of the first phase's 23 homes already are sold or pending sale, with a second phase planned to break ground early next year, said URA spokeswoman Megan Stearman. Prices range from $130,000 to $243,000 depending on whether the homebuyers qualify for subsidies or other assistance. Each cost about $225,000 to build.

Federal Hill attracted a range of buyers, from former suburban dwellers to first-time home buyers, single professionals, young couples and empty-nesters, Stearman said.

Neighbors hope the investments drive out what's left of the neighborhood's illegal drug activity, which once occurred outside for all to see, they said.

"You'd have people pull up, buy their drugs and drive off. Sometimes the drugs brought in violence," said Helen Hendricks, 61.

"Recently, it's been looking like an entirely new neighborhood. It's a great thing for the entire North Side," said Roger Stevens, 52.

Merchants hope the homes and other businesses drum up foot traffic, but some remain skeptical.

"This neighborhood has changed a lot in 30 years," said George Triantafillos, who has owned George's Barber Shop on Federal Street since 1980. "There used to be businesses across the street: a bakery, a drug store. ... There was traffic all day. Now it looks like a cemetery. Maybe (the investments will) help, maybe they won't."

Lawrenceville-based developer Bill Barron, who owns the building that will soon house the Crazy Mocha, is betting on the neighborhood's resurgence.

"Based on the population that's there and the development, it all adds up to good things," he said.






....

B&N closes another city location

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_645765.html

Squirrel Hill Barnes & Noble to close at year's end

By Sam Spatter
FOR THE TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
Last updated: 3:01 pm

Squirrel Hill's Barnes & Noble store will close at the end of the year, marking the second store — Panera's Bread closed Aug. 30 — to close within the Murray Avenue block this year.

Mary Ellen Keating, spokeswoman for the New York-based book retailer, said the decision to close at the end of the year was made on an individual basis because the Squirrel Hill location was one of the chain's smaller stores.

She said this was not part of a decision to close a number of smaller stores, although recently Barnes & Noble decided to open a 30,000-square-foot store in the new Settlers Ridge development in Robinson, and close its 20,000-square-foot store at the Pointe in North Fayette, part of the Robinson Town Centre complex, also in Robinson.

"We have several prospects for the Panera site and are hoping to bring in a national chain for the Barnes & Noble 20,000-square-foot store," said Rocco DiDomenico of Rockwel Realty, owner of the property.

[pj3000]

FROST ADVISORY: Protect your sensitive plants!



Slice of mixed-income housing offers further hope to North Side


Squirrel Hill Barnes & Noble to close at year's end


I brought my pot plants in, just in case!

Cool development on the Northside... Crazy Mocha's going in - here comes the neighborhood.

Sorry to hear about the Squirrel Hill Barnes & Noble closing, but not about the Panera. I'd love to see a good bar go in where Panera was... if so, I'd be there daily.

[hyperion1110]

Federal Hill looks awesome!!! I LOVE rowhouses, especially when they seem to be as well-built as these have been. Projects like these need to spread to other parts of the Northside, like Calbride Place.

[PA Pride]

You guys are leaving a big part out of this conversation, the fact that you aren't accounting for the other extreme.

Yes, Pittsburgh is known for some serious dreary, wintry, or rainy weather. And maybe in THAT regard, most other major metro's are better off. But what about ridiculous heat, humidity, and smoldering months? Pittsburgh is no stranger to a few uncomfortably, humid, summer days, but they are usually trickled in among pleasant days.

Thank you xyagentguy for your rare, well thought out post. I agree completely.
I always tell people that the way i see it: If you live in Pittsburgh, you hibernate indoors during the coldest winter months: Jan-March. Whereas if you live in Florida, you do the same only during the oppressive summer: June-August.

It seems pretty comparable to me. :yes:

[PA Pride]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_645665.html

[SIZE="5"]Slice of mixed-income housing offers further hope to North Side

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-09-29/0930federal1-a.jpg
The newly completed Federal Hill Homes along Federal Street in the North Side is another indicator of the neighborhood's revitalization, officials say.
Justin Merriman/Tribune-Review

By Adam Brandolph
TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
Last updated: 3:06 pm

The transformation of a once-blighted North Side corridor is still in its infancy, but city officials and neighbors say the future is bright.

Recent additions to Federal Street near Allegheny General Hospital include a doctor's office, new eateries and a Carnegie Library branch that opened last month. A Crazy Mocha coffee shop soon will open at Federal and North Avenue, and officials say a bank is in negotiations to lease a nearby location.

"When people think of the North Side, they identify with this intersection right here, and for too long that has had a negative connotation," Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, a North Side native, said Tuesday.

"The good news is that just as the city transformed its image with the G-20 summit last week, so is the North Side."

Neighborhood leaders say the revitalization of Central North Side officially began yesterday with a ribbon-cutting ceremony for the completion of the first phase of Federal Hill Homes, a mixed-income development two blocks up from North Avenue. The city's Urban Redevelopment Authority, the state and private financiers are paying to build 60 homes.

Twenty of the first phase's 23 homes already are sold or pending sale, with a second phase planned to break ground early next year, said URA spokeswoman Megan Stearman. Prices range from $130,000 to $243,000 depending on whether the homebuyers qualify for subsidies or other assistance. Each cost about $225,000 to build.

Federal Hill attracted a range of buyers, from former suburban dwellers to first-time home buyers, single professionals, young couples and empty-nesters, Stearman said.

Neighbors hope the investments drive out what's left of the neighborhood's illegal drug activity, which once occurred outside for all to see, they said.

"You'd have people pull up, buy their drugs and drive off. Sometimes the drugs brought in violence," said Helen Hendricks, 61.

"Recently, it's been looking like an entirely new neighborhood. It's a great thing for the entire North Side," said Roger Stevens, 52.

Merchants hope the homes and other businesses drum up foot traffic, but some remain skeptical.

"This neighborhood has changed a lot in 30 years," said George Triantafillos, who has owned George's Barber Shop on Federal Street since 1980. "There used to be businesses across the street: a bakery, a drug store. ... There was traffic all day. Now it looks like a cemetery. Maybe (the investments will) help, maybe they won't."

Lawrenceville-based developer Bill Barron, who owns the building that will soon house the Crazy Mocha, is betting on the neighborhood's resurgence.

"Based on the population that's there and the development, it all adds up to good things," he said.



This is a great development in my opinion as well. What's so great is that S&A Homes is a suburban builder based out of State College, PA. Being a real estate agent I've just sold two of their typical vinyl fare out in Kennedy Twp in the last two months. So i am very proud of them for trying to diversify their product to include city dwellers as well.

Here is their website: http://www.sahomebuilder.com/communitymulti.asp?comnum=264
You can see they have 8 communities in the Pittsburgh metro, 7 of which are suburban and then Federal Hill.

I noticed also that each unit comes with "2 off street parking spaces". I am glad they addressed parking because in order to attract home buyers, especially ones coming from the suburbs who are used to easy parking, there needs to be a place for their vehicles. At least until they can decide if they would rather use public transportation or continue using cars if their job/lifestyle requires them.

[dugdogmaster]

This is a great development in my opinion as well. What's so great is that S&A Homes is a suburban builder based out of State College, PA. Being a real estate agent I've just sold two of their typical vinyl fare out in Kennedy Twp in the last two months. So i am very proud of them for trying to diversify their product to include city dwellers as well.

Here is their website: http://www.sahomebuilder.com/communitymulti.asp?comnum=264
You can see they have 8 communities in the Pittsburgh metro, 7 of which are suburban and then Federal Hill.

I noticed also that each unit comes with "2 off street parking spaces". I am glad they addressed parking because in order to attract home buyers, especially ones coming from the suburbs who are used to easy parking, there needs to be a place for their vehicles. At least until they can decide if they would rather use public transportation or continue using cars if their job/lifestyle requires them.

I like the Palo Alto. There's one towards the background of the picture. And man, they're on the cheap!

[pj3000]

I always tell people that the way i see it: If you live in Pittsburgh, you hibernate indoors during the coldest winter months: Jan-March. Whereas if you live in Florida, you do the same only during the oppressive summer: June-August.

It seems pretty comparable to me. :yes:

Well... in Florida, they got this thing called "the beach". During those "oppressive summer" months, millions of people are actually enjoying the outdoors, chillin' on the shores of the Atlantic or the Gulf, rather than hibernating indoors. Of all the people I know down there, I don't know anyone who hibernates indoors, as many people seem to do up here.

Having lived in Miami for about 5 years and still frequently visit (once per month), I can assuredly say that I will take Miami's summer over Pittsburgh's sorry excuse for a winter.

Check out South Beach in the middle of July... it really doesn't seem to me that the thousands of people from all over the world are miserable from the oppressive heat. Rather they seem quite happy to be swimming, jogging, drinking, volleyballing, paddleballing, jetskiiing, etc. in their bikinis. I enjoy South Florida immensely in the summer (lots of South American women), sittin on the beach, hangin out in my banana hammock :banana:... :haha:

It really isn't comparable.

[PA Pride]

Well... in Florida, they got this thing called "the beach". During those "oppressive summer" months, millions of people are actually enjoying the outdoors, chillin' on the shores of the Atlantic or the Gulf, rather than hibernating indoors. Of all the people I know down there, I don't know anyone who hibernates indoors, as many people seem to do up here.

Having lived in Miami for about 5 years and still frequently visit (once per month), I can assuredly say that I will take Miami's summer over Pittsburgh's sorry excuse for a winter.

Check out South Beach in the middle of July... it really doesn't seem to me that the thousands of people from all over the world are miserable from the oppressive heat. Rather they seem quite happy to be swimming, jogging, drinking, volleyballing, paddleballing, jetskiiing, etc. in their bikinis. I enjoy South Florida immensely in the summer (lots of South American women), sittin on the beach, hangin out in my banana hammock :banana:... :haha:

It really isn't comparable.

Well the southern tip of Florida is the exception from the rest of the southeast US because it is the only part of the lower 48 that is truly a tropical climate.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/4527/climatemapusa2yv3.png
http://printable-maps.blogspot.com/2008/09/climate-maps-united-states-and-canada.html

^Notice that Pittsburgh sits in the same climate zone as such hugely successful cities such as NYC, Chicago & Boston.

Notice we are not in the perceived northern "arctic zone" of cities like Buffalo, Flint or Duluth.

[JakeLiefer]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_645665.html

[SIZE="5"]Slice of mixed-income housing offers further hope to North Side

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-09-29/0930federal1-a.jpg

...

Twenty of the first phase's 23 homes already are sold or pending sale, with a second phase planned to break ground early next year, said URA spokeswoman Megan Stearman. Prices range from $130,000 to $243,000 depending on whether the homebuyers qualify for subsidies or other assistance. Each cost about $225,000 to build.

...


Can someone explain why the houses cost $225,000 to build? I always thought rowhouses were the most inexpensive houses, created in the early 1900s for the working class, with the shared wall to save on materials and building costs. Maybe I've just been spoiled with Pittsburgh real estate prices in relation to new home prices.

[PA Pride]

Can someone explain why the houses cost $225,000 to build? I always thought rowhouses were the most inexpensive houses, created in the early 1900s for the working class, with the shared wall to save on materials and building costs. Maybe I've just been spoiled with Pittsburgh real estate prices in relation to new home prices.

New construction is not cheap. The lowest quality new houses by Maronda Homes are probably in the neighborhood of $75 per sq ft. Average quality like Ryan or Heartland Homes are around $100-$110 per sq ft. Custom homes are approx $125 and up.

S&A Homes, the builder of these townhouses is considered a custom builder. These units are between 1,400 - 2,300 sq ft. So if the median unit size is approx. 1,800 sq ft at $125 per sq ft that is exactly $225,000.




Forumer Ditchdigger is a general contractor (i think). He could probably verify if my numbers are about right.

[Wave]

Sorry to hear about the Squirrel Hill Barnes & Noble closing, but not about the Panera. I'd love to see a good bar go in where Panera was... if so, I'd be there daily.

It will be tough for the owner to fill the Panera space at his asking price of $32 per sq ft. Now that B&N is closing and there are other vacancies in the Forbes & Murray area, they are going to have a tough time filling that space unless the price drops. Definitely too pricey for most non-chain type establishments though the Panera space is screaming for a hip bar/restaurant. Hopefully the Manor theater isn't going anywhere.

[edncc1701d]

It will be tough for the owner to fill the Panera space at his asking price of $32 per sq ft. Now that B&N is closing and there are other vacancies in the Forbes & Murray area, they are going to have a tough time filling that space unless the price drops. Definitely too pricey for most non-chain type establishments though the Panera space is screaming for a hip bar/restaurant. Hopefully the Manor theater isn't going anywhere.

I find it unfathomable that Squirrel Hill will be left without a book store. The owner of that property must be asking for ridiculous terms and rents for those two chains to be leaving their East End urban bastions. Both stores were always full and seemed to be doing well.

With the prices he is asking, I don't see any independent small business retailers moving into those spaces any time soon. Hopefully when the landlord comes to his senses, someone like Joseph Beth can swoop in and take over... Although, the former B&N space would lend itself very nicely to the Premium state store format which would probably do really well in Squirrel Hill...

Time will tell.

[pj3000]

^ yeah, like you said, it's surprising that two national chains that seem to be very busy all of the time are pulling out.

I actually hated that Panera location... terrible service, hastily thrown together orders, messy... signs of poor management... it was pretty much all kids working there. I don't lament it leaving at all. Wave and I agree that a good bar is needed in that location in Squirrel Hill... Silky's, Fanattics, Squirrel Hill Cafe, and PD's just don't do it for me for whatever reason.

[Evergrey]

It's amazing that Squirrel Hill has such a small and pathetic selection of bars/nightlife.

[pj3000]

^ I know, tell me about it... the largest neighborhood in the city and there's only like 4 rather blah bars.

[Tombstoner]

Does Oakland/Squirrel Hill have any really sizable, quality bookstores outside the university bookstores? For a big swath of town that caters to the academic community, that's a pretty sad situation (not that B&N was a hotbed of intellectualism...) :(

[bruchaus]

It's amazing that Squirrel Hill has such a small and pathetic selection of bars/nightlife.

Think about who lives there. Pitt students go out in Oakland with their friends. Jewish families tend to not big be bar patrons. The Squirrel Cage is a pretty good spot, they've got a great bottled beer selection.

[Wave]

Does Oakland/Squirrel Hill have any really sizable, quality bookstores outside the university bookstores? For a big swath of town that caters to the academic community, that's a pretty sad situation (not that B&N was a hotbed of intellectualism...) :(

There's a relatively new Border's at the Eastside development near the Whole Foods. That's about it, as far as I know. I think the problem with that B&N had a lot to do with the direction B&N is taking with larger stores. I am sure the economy had something to do with it not to mention the rents in that area. Operating a smaller store does not mean the overhead is much less. There used to be an independent bookstore around the corner from B&N in Squirrell Hill on Forbes, but it closed right after that Barnes and Noble opened. The competition was too much for them I am sure. I do like the Joseph Beth stores and they are smaller but I think they are owned by either B&N or Border's.

[Ditchdigger]

Forumer Ditchdigger is a general contractor (i think).

No, I'm an excavator, but I do work mainly in residential construction. I'll try to remember to verify those numbers for you though.

[pj3000]

Think about who lives there. Pitt students go out in Oakland with their friends. Jewish families tend to not big be bar patrons. The Squirrel Cage is a pretty good spot, they've got a great bottled beer selection.

Uhh... Squirrel Hill is Pittsburgh's largest neighborhood. A helluva lot more people than just Pitt students and Jewish families live there.

[PA Pride]

A helluva lot more people than just Pitt students and Jewish families live there.

True. Only around 50% of Squirrel Hill's 25,000+ residents are Jewish.

[Juicedog1313]

I second the the comment that hinted that Squirrell Hill severely lacks a nightlife. I lived on Forward Ave for a year, and after 9PM, the Forbes and Murray area was deader than Downtown after rush hour.

[bruchaus]

True. Only around 50% of Squirrel Hill's 25,000+ residents are Jewish.

ONLY? 50% is a large percentage. Sorry if you were being sarcastic I can't tell.

Squirrel Hill is somewhat suburban. Lots of families, maybe not just Jewish families. The kinds of houses in S. Hill are large and many are expensive and single, young professionals maybe can't afford them yet, or don't need to size.

On top of that the other people who live there are college students, not just Pitt students, that was my mistake. But many of them are in grad school and some are undergrad, but of everyone I know who lived in S. Hill during college, they left to party elsewhere because S. Hill is too family oriented.

[ks2006]

Well... in Florida, they got this thing called "the beach". During those "oppressive summer" months, millions of people are actually enjoying the outdoors, chillin' on the shores of the Atlantic or the Gulf, rather than hibernating indoors. Of all the people I know down there, I don't know anyone who hibernates indoors, as many people seem to do up here.

Having lived in Miami for about 5 years and still frequently visit (once per month), I can assuredly say that I will take Miami's summer over Pittsburgh's sorry excuse for a winter.

Check out South Beach in the middle of July... it really doesn't seem to me that the thousands of people from all over the world are miserable from the oppressive heat. Rather they seem quite happy to be swimming, jogging, drinking, volleyballing, paddleballing, jetskiiing, etc. in their bikinis. I enjoy South Florida immensely in the summer (lots of South American women), sittin on the beach, hangin out in my banana hammock :banana:... :haha:

It really isn't comparable.
I've lived in DC, Silicon Valley, and Florida and I have to say I would take Pittsburgh's weather over any of them.
DC - ok in spring and fall but digusting and humid in summer, and also blah in winter.

San Jose area - nice until you get tired of the sun, as some other posters have said. It really becomes annoying being so constantly sunny when you are outside. Burning hot but not too humid (that's one plus). Sunblock always required.

Florida - way too hot and humid most of the year. Yeah you can always go to the beach, but that gets old, and even if you still like doing that, you are only there a few hours a week, but have to put up with the weather 24/7.

Pittsburgh - yes it is dreary in winter but the other seasons are nice. Maybe ppl should just save a week of vacation for January and go somewhere sunny. since the summers are nice no need to take a long trip then. Sunny days in Pgh are usually nice and very enjoyable to be outside, which is not the case for most sunbelt areas.

[pj3000]

Squirrel Hill is somewhat suburban. Lots of families, maybe not just Jewish families. The kinds of houses in S. Hill are large and many are expensive and single, young professionals maybe can't afford them yet, or don't need to size.

On top of that the other people who live there are college students, not just Pitt students, that was my mistake. But many of them are in grad school and some are undergrad, but of everyone I know who lived in S. Hill during college, they left to party elsewhere because S. Hill is too family oriented.

I'm really not looking for a place to "party" in Squirrel Hill, just a good bar.

Just because Squirrel Hill is a large, semi-suburban neighborhood, and may be more "family-oriented" than some of Pittsburgh's neighborhoods that are home to nightlife scenes, does not mean that people that live there (or people who live elsewhere) would not want a nice bar/tavern/pub to frequent. Squirrel Hill has plenty of nice dining options, so how about a nice drinking option?

Maybe I'll just have to open a place in the former Panera store... :haha:

[Wiz Khalifa]

I've lived in DC, Silicon Valley, and Florida and I have to say I would take Pittsburgh's weather over any of them.
DC - ok in spring and fall but digusting and humid in summer, and also blah in winter.

San Jose area - nice until you get tired of the sun, as some other posters have said. It really becomes annoying being so constantly sunny when you are outside. Burning hot but not too humid (that's one plus). Sunblock always required.

Florida - way too hot and humid most of the year. Yeah you can always go to the beach, but that gets old, and even if you still like doing that, you are only there a few hours a week, but have to put up with the weather 24/7.

Pittsburgh - yes it is dreary in winter but the other seasons are nice. Maybe ppl should just save a week of vacation for January and go somewhere sunny. since the summers are nice no need to take a long trip then. Sunny days in Pgh are usually nice and very enjoyable to be outside, which is not the case for most sunbelt areas.

Shhhh... you're not allowed to mention the positives of Pittsburgh weather on any Pittsburgh thread. You are only allowed to complain and nitpick about every cloudy, rainy, and/or cold day each year and then follow it up with the "every other place in the country has better weather right now and i wish i was anywhere but here", comment. ;)

[Wheelingman04]

Shhhh... you're not allowed to mention the positives of Pittsburgh weather on any Pittsburgh thread. You are only allowed to complain and nitpick about every cloudy, rainy, and/or cold day each year and then follow it up with the "every other place in the country has better weather right now and i wish i was anywhere but here", comment. ;)

:tup:

[Evergrey]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09277/1002658-109.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20091004enough_said_350.gif

[Evergrey]

http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2009/10/05/focus3.html?b=1254715200^2197611

Pittsburgh's Crazy Mocha coffee shop expects steady growth in Cultural District

Pittsburgh Business Times - by Lou Corsaro

http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/422401-0-0-1.jpg
Joe Wojcik
Ken Zeff, owner of Crazy Mocha Coffee Co., said a lot of work went into finding a Cultural District location.

The Crazy Mocha Coffee Co. has been busy over the past couple of years.

When its Cultural District store opened on Liberty Avenue last year, it was the company’s 14th, said owner Ken Zeff. Zeff just opened their 23rd location in Cranberry, and a 24th is coming this month to Downtown, on Ross Street. A 25th location on the North Side at the corner of Federal Street and North Avenue is scheduled to open in November.

Zeff talked to the Business Times about being in the Cultural District.

What makes having a location in the Cultural District attractive?

You cannot help but be impressed with the Cultural Trust’s vision and their early-on belief that Downtown is a great place to live, work and be entertained. They have great vision, which was a key point for me to locate in the Cultural District. We looked for about a year, but it was always our plan to open on the 800 block of Liberty Avenue.

Was is difficult to find the right location?

Sure was. We wanted a corner spot and our current space fit the bill. Our biggest obstacle was the condition of the interior, which needed to be completely redone.

Our goal was to have many locations Downtown and have this location be our “showcase” store that would stay open seven days a week and late for the shows. We are ready to open our 11th Downtown space.

How is the Cultural District location doing?

The store has been meeting expectations. Our evening and weekend business is better than we had planned. We see steady future growth based on housing and new development around the Trust.

Do you see a bright future for micro businesses?

The Cultural District is only getting better and it is the quality of traffic generated by the Trust events, and office and convention traffic make the corridor a quality opportunity for business.

lcorsaro@bizjournals.com I 412-208-3822

[George Woods]

On days like today, Pittsburgh is so fucking beautiful. The mere possibilty of days like this makes the dreary weather worth it. Just think, the Sunbelt cities don't even have the ability to experience this. That alone (nevermind the total absence of old, authentic buildings, real neighborhoods, human scale, rivers, topography, bridges, etc.) is reason to never even consider them as an option. We have some bad weather, but it makes this shit all the more spectacular.

[AaronPGH]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09277/1002658-109.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20091004enough_said_350.gif

YES! Everything is going right in the graph. Immigrants and out-migration. Keep going pittsburgh!!!

[Evergrey]

Bruce Kraus using his mighty authority to harass businesses again

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_646523.html

Pittsburgh marks boundaries for East Carson sidewalk dining

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-10-05/lines-a.jpg
Pittsburgh public works spray painted white lines outside at least five East Carson Street businesses that have outdoor dining permits in an effort to curb how far outdoor cafes jut into the sidewalk.
James Knox/Tribune-Review



South Side restaurants have to walk the line on sidewalk cafes — no matter how jagged, dotted or misplaced that line might be.

Pittsburgh public works — at the pressuring of City Councilman Bruce Kraus — spray painted white lines outside at least five East Carson Street businesses that have outdoor dining permits in an effort to curb how far outdoor cafes jut into the sidewalk.

But the lines — some of which were removed over the weekend — left some business owners confused, Kraus fuming and the interim public works director planning to have them repainted.

"They look terrible," Kraus said. "They were clearly just put down with a can of spray paint. That's clearly not the intent of the legislation."

Legislation takes effect in January that regulates how much of the sidewalk an outdoor dining area can consume. Cafes must leave 4 feet of sidewalk clear on a 10-foot-wide sidewalk. If the sidewalk is more than 10 feet wide, the dining area must leave 5 feet clear. Kraus hoped to show business owners how much room they would have.

This isn't the first time Kraus has tackled outdoor seating in the South Side. In 2007, he railed against a fenced-in sidewalk cafe outside Folino's Ristorante, arguing the fence was permanent and in violation of city code. Restaurant owner Penny Folino later removed the fence.

Acting Public Works Director Robert Kaczorowski said he checked out the lines Friday and planned to have them removed by yesterday. Some of them were gone this morning.

"One of our staff members took it upon himself to take a can of spray paint and mark it," Kaczorowski said. "It looks like graffiti. It wasn't a real professional job. It's not acceptable.

"I guess it was the right thing to do but the wrong way to do it. ... We'll put back something a little more appealing and professional."

Joanna Doven, spokeswoman for Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, did not return messages seeking comment.

When Marc Feldstein saw a couple of long, spray painted lines on the sidewalk along 20th Street in August, he thought they were G-20 related.

"Nobody told me what they were for," said Feldstein, owner of Southside Steaks, which has had outdoor seating for more than six years.

Using a tape measure, Feldstein discovered he had about 3 feet for his outdoor seating.

"I don't know why they chose 3 feet," he said. "You can barely put a two-person table out there."

Kaczorowski said he doesn't think the public works staffer used a tape measure.

"It looks like he measured with his feet," he said. Kaczorowski did not identify the public works employee.

Folino, who also owns Tom's Diner, called the lines "horrendous" and "ridiculous."

Her restaurants had multiple markings outside — dotted lines and one long line painted about a foot apart from each other.

"It's just unbelievable," Folino said.



...


Hilarious video about Kraus's campaign of terror from last month... compared to KGB and Gestapo

http://kdka.com/video/?id=62266@kdka.dayport.com

[AaronPGH]

Bruce Kraus is a fucking waste of space. It sucks our first gay councilman has to be such a piece of trash with such bad ideas. I am embarassed.

[bruchaus]

I'm really not looking for a place to "party" in Squirrel Hill, just a good bar.

Just because Squirrel Hill is a large, semi-suburban neighborhood, and may be more "family-oriented" than some of Pittsburgh's neighborhoods that are home to nightlife scenes, does not mean that people that live there (or people who live elsewhere) would not want a nice bar/tavern/pub to frequent. Squirrel Hill has plenty of nice dining options, so how about a nice drinking option?

Maybe I'll just have to open a place in the former Panera store... :haha:

I know what you mean. It is nice to have a few chooses in walking distance. I always liked the Squirrel Cage. Other than that, you're right. Not many bars to walk to in SH.

[Ditchdigger]

New construction is not cheap. The lowest quality new houses by Maronda Homes are probably in the neighborhood of $75 per sq ft. Average quality like Ryan or Heartland Homes are around $100-$110 per sq ft. Custom homes are approx $125 and up.

S&A Homes, the builder of these townhouses is considered a custom builder. These units are between 1,400 - 2,300 sq ft. So if the median unit size is approx. 1,800 sq ft at $125 per sq ft that is exactly $225,000.




Forumer Ditchdigger is a general contractor (i think). He could probably verify if my numbers are about right.


I asked a couple of knowledgable people today, and yes, those numbers are about right. (I'll qualify that answer by saying that there are a lot of factors that go into that, not the least of which has to do with the quality of interior finish items. It was suggested that those were good prices as a baseline, and they would go up from there.)

[Wiz Khalifa]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09277/1002658-109.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/images4/20091004enough_said_350.gif


This is obviously a fantastic trend if it continues and doesn't just oscillate back and forth. I can't wait to see the stats for '08 and '09.

Does anyone know if its possible to look at the migration statistics for the urbanized area and the city as well?

[Wave]

I asked a couple of knowledgable people today, and yes, those numbers are about right. (I'll qualify that answer by saying that there are a lot of factors that go into that, not the least of which has to do with the quality of interior finish items. It was suggested that those were good prices as a baseline, and they would go up from there.)

I went by the development on Sunday and noticed the rear and sides of the completed townhouse row are vinyl siding-clearly meant to save money from more expensive brick exterior. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as it allows the all-important front of the project facing Federal St. to look decent and somewhat distinguished, blending in OK with the neighborhood while saving the builder $ and allowing them to build for market rate housing overall. By going through the alleyway to the back you actually get a sense of the size and amenities available with decks and decent size units apparent from the back. All in all a good development for that part of town and definitely a risk for the developer (though I think the project was almost entirely subsidized so maybe not too big a risk for the builder). It would be great to see more infill projects on the North Side and this will possibly spur more, architecturally apprpriate projects on the sketchy few blocks between this project and the edge of the Mexican War Streets (Arch, Sherman etc.)

[Wave]

Does anyone know if its possible to look at the migration statistics for the urbanized area and the city as well?

I believe there is a (county?) website that gives population statistics year by year for each ward of the city and each municpality so you can at least see which neighborhoods or municipalities are growing or shrinking over time. I believe I recall seeing neighborhoods like Sq. Hill and Shadyside maintaining decent levels of population over time and others such as the strip and uptown losing large amounts of residents since the 70's. I think the only neighborhood/ward that has actually grown notably in Pgh over the past ten years is downtown (though some neighborhoods have been esentially stable throughout that time)

[Evergrey]

Bruce Kraus is a fucking waste of space. It sucks our first gay councilman has to be such a piece of trash with such bad ideas. I am embarassed.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-10-05/1006pside-a.jpg
Southside Steaks owner Marc Feldstein measures the marks painted on the sidewalk in front of his eatery along East Carson Street.
James E. Knox/Tribune-Review

[Wheelingman04]

This is obviously a fantastic trend if it continues and doesn't just oscillate back and forth. I can't wait to see the stats for '08 and '09.

Does anyone know if its possible to look at the migration statistics for the urbanized area and the city as well?

Friggin awesome. I have faith this trend will continue. Pittsburgh has so much more to offer than most other large US cities as I have found out through personal experience myself along with urban geography research. Traveling to most major cities in the US and Canada has really made me realize how special Pittsburgh is. Before that, I figured Pittsburgh was just a decent city but most others were better. Obviously most of know that isn't true and I am not being biased at all. I can be very objective. Pittsburgh is a gem. I cannot stand how many of the locals complain about how bad Pittsburgh is and they want to move to Florida, NC or NYC etc. What a joke. They must not know shit about anything.:rolleyes:

[cdc]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-10-05/1006pside-a.jpg
Southside Steaks owner Marc Feldstein measures the marks painted on the sidewalk in front of his eatery along East Carson Street.
James E. Knox/Tribune-Review

Wonder if/how this will apply to the sidewalk dining at SSW?
I'm thinking of the sidewalk with the iron fence and trees in
the middle of it.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3515/3987267047_52e6f14439.jpg
(image from google maps)

[AaronPGH]

Wonder if/how this will apply to the sidewalk dining at SSW?

Guaranteed that it won't. Bruce Kraus only cares to harass small, locally owned businesses. He never goes after any of the ones down at the SSW. SSW is also exempt from the liquor license restrictions placed on the main drag of Carson St.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Guaranteed that it won't. Bruce Kraus only cares to harass small, locally owned businesses. He never goes after any of the ones down at the SSW. SSW is also exempt from the liquor license restrictions placed on the main drag of Carson St.


This is what got me:
This isn't the first time Kraus has tackled outdoor seating in the South Side. In 2007, he railed against a fenced-in sidewalk cafe outside Folino's Ristorante, arguing the fence was permanent and in violation of city code. Restaurant owner Penny Folino later removed the fence.

And then someone posted the street view of the chain with the permanent fence. If he was just an annoying councilman enforcing stupid strict legislation across the board its one thing. But bullying small business owners and allowing chains to do whatever they want? :yuck: What a total fool this guy is.

Small businesses are what make a city unique and vibrant, not cookie cutter suburban chains.


Bruce Kraus only cares to harass small, locally owned businesses. He never goes after any of the ones down at the SSW. SSW is also exempt from the liquor license restrictions placed on the main drag of Carson St.

Is this guy responsible for the liquor license anomaly as well? If so then how does this anti-small business fool get voted into office?

[Juicedog1313]

Friggin awesome. I have faith this trend will continue. Pittsburgh has so much more to offer than most other large US cities as I have found out through personal experience myself along with urban geography research. Traveling to most major cities in the US and Canada has really made me realize how special Pittsburgh is. Before that, I figured Pittsburgh was just a decent city but most others were better. Obviously most of know that isn't true and I am not being biased at all. I can be very objective. Pittsburgh is a gem. I cannot stand how many of the locals complain about how bad Pittsburgh is and they want to move to Florida, NC or NYC etc. What a joke. They must not know shit about anything.:rolleyes:


I think that alot of people focus on the more run down areas of town, and make jugements based on negativity and stereotypes. About 6-7 years ago, I was considering moving to East Liberty. Because alot of the east end traffic arteries pass and intersect there, I developed a hunch that the area was ripe for investment. Every last person person that i told, replied that I was out of my mind, or "that area is a dump". I never considered it a dump, but it wasn't the most glamorous place, but it had potential. Since I dont wanna say "I told you so"... I'm not sure if i should point out to my friends how the neighborhood has turned itself around, and is now a hot spot for new businesses.

Nasty rumors... I guess.

[AaronPGH]

Does anyone know anything about this project "The Crucible"? I found it on Lubetz Architects site while researching the glass lofts project. It's in their featured projects section on their home page so I'm guessing it's happening? It looks pretty awesome...but I can't figure out where this is based on the description? Appears to be a mixed use redevelopment.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8054/picture1k.png

[hyperion1110]

It appears to be in the strip. I think I recall driving past it once or twice. http://www.westernpennsylvaniarealestate.com/crucible.htm

[Tombstoner]

Given that location, it seems a bit odd that it would boast views of the "Monongahela river front." Typo? They meant Allegheny?

[PA Pride]

URA seeks RFPs for final four parcels of Pittsburgh Technology Center

http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/techcenter1007.aspx

Emerging technology, Higher education, Real estate, Redevelopment
Downtown & The Cultural District, Oakland, South Side The Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) of Pittsburgh announced last week it is formally seeking requests for proposals to develop the final four sites of the Pittsburgh Technology Center.
The four built-to-suit parcels, which are cleared and ready for building, range in size from nearly three-quarters of an acre to just over an acre-and-a-half.


"These four sites are the last remaining parcels east of the Hot Metal Bridge," says Megan Stearman with the URA. "They're the final pieces of this development site. Getting it fully built means more tax revenue for the city, more jobs and more opportunity to advance the technology industry that is transforming Pittsburgh."


The Technology Center is located along the Monongahela riverfront in Hazelwood, just down the hill from Oakland's universities and hospitals, across the Hot Metal Bridge from the South Side, and a short distance from Downtown. The office park includes a 723-space parking garage and access to public transportation.


Over the past 12 years, seven buildings totaling almost 700,000 square-feet have been developed at the Technology Center, and are fully leased at this time. The 48-acre Technology Center, which was built on property formerly used as a steel mill site, now hosts regional technology leaders including the University of Pittsburgh Center of Biotechnology and Bioengineering, the Carnegie Mellon Entertainment Technology Center, Ansaldo STS USA (formerly known as Union Switch & Signal), Thermo Fisher Scientific, and the Sunoco Polypropylene Research and Development Center.


The Technology Center is a nationally recognized example of brownfield reclamation, and the first project in Pennsylvania to use tax increment financing. The site currently generates more than $1 million in annual local tax revenues.


The asking price for the land will start at $570,000. The URA will be accepting proposals on a rolling deadline.


Writer: Caralyn Green
Source: Megan Stearman, Urban Redevelopment Authority


Image courtesy of Urban Redevelopment Authority


The latest $46 million building to go up at the technology park:
http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/224571-0-0-2.jpg

[pj3000]

The Pittsburgh Parks Conservancy has begun the process of developing a restoration and management plan for Mellon Square. Set for completion in early 2009, the plan will address programming, maintenance, and physical preservation of the park.

http://www.tclf.org/events/pioneers/pittsburgh/iamges/splash_page.jpg

http://www.pittsburghparks.org/mellonsquare#topofpage

[PA Pride]

^Awesome. I love that park but agree with everyone that it needs fixed up. I went to a technology school in the William Penn building there in the rear for 2 yrs and spent every afternoon in that park.

That's an ooold photo by the way. You almost can't tell because the color quality is good. But there is no US Steel tower in the back! That photo was definitely taken in the 1950s judging by the cars.

[Brandon716]

It looks so virgin and fresh in that photo, it looks so used today. For its day it was ahead of its time, could you imagine being in the park when it was brand new?

[Evergrey]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_646948.html

Market at Fifth a harbinger of 'the return of retail'

By Kim Leonard, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, October 8, 2009

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2009-10-07/1008pmarket-a.jpg
Chas Schaldenbrand, owner of Heinz Healey's, moved his high-end clothing store from Station Square to Market at Fifth just two weeks ago. "Downtown is ready for us," he said.
Justin Merriman/Tribune-Review


With many nearby buildings under construction or renovation, the new Market at Fifth complex Downtown is an early sign of the return of high-end retail stores to lower Fifth Avenue.

Heinz Healey's men's clothing store opened two weeks ago in the just-finished development that connects three historic buildings. Sales have been brisk since the Group of 20 economic summit ended Sept. 25, said owner Chas Schaldenbrand, who moved after 25 years at Station Square.

"Downtown is ready for us," he said, pointing out his store's 135 feet of window space and exposure from a small park across Fifth, adjoining the new Three PNC Plaza tower.

Around the corner off Market Street, the smaller Nettleton Shop of Pittsburgh is stocked with top men's shoe brands. With people living upstairs and nearby, and big law firms Reed Smith LP and K&L Gates moving to the neighborhood, owner Scott Kresge said, the store founded in 1929 in the Union Trust Building is in an ideal spot.

"Once Market Square opens," Kresge said, referring to the construction site half a block away, "we can have all kinds of customers walking by."

The Pittsburgh History & Landmarks Foundation led the $4 million creation of Market at Fifth. President Arthur P. Ziegler Jr. said the project transformed three vacant, rundown buildings -- which faced the wrecking ball until a controversial Downtown redevelopment plan was scrapped in 2001 -- into a modern, environmentally friendly complex. Original design features were preserved, when possible.

Work at the three small 19th and early 20th century buildings, for example, uncovered clerestory windows with brackets and chains that were part of the storefront once occupied by Regal Shoes, an original tenant. They now top the Heinz Healey's space.

At Kresge's shoe store, an exposed brick wall adds a masculine touch.

The seven apartments on the upper floors have high windows, but also new bamboo floors, energy-efficient lighting and perennials that form a green roof to control temperatures and absorb water. Four of the units have been leased so far.

The Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership views Market at Fifth as a sign of things to come.

"Those buildings are very representative of what we see happening all along Fifth Avenue -- the return of retail to Fifth Avenue," President Michael M. Edwards said.

The organization's retail strategy envisions upscale shops along Fifth between Liberty Avenue and Smithfield Street, and lower-priced stores and restaurants in the Forbes Avenue area to appeal to students, such as those at Point Park University.

Fifth, Forbes and nearby streets in the heart of Downtown's retail area have deteriorated in the past dozen years as the result of uncertainty over redevelopment plans. Dozens of longtime merchants closed, and building owners sold out to the city as then-Mayor Tom Murphy promoted a plan dubbed Fifth and Forbes, which would have razed 60 older buildings to make way for a single developer with a master plan.

Now Fifth Avenue, a magnet for Downtown shoppers in the mid-20th century, is on the upswing again, Edwards said.

Larrimor's men's clothing store plans to move in February from the Union Trust Building to One PNC Plaza along Fifth. The Fairmont hotel, opening in March in the new PNC building, will have two restaurants, and Millcraft Industries Inc.'s nearby Piatt Place office and residential development has the Capital Grille and McCormick & Schmick's.

The Buhl Building next to Market at Fifth will have first-floor retail, after an overhaul by developers Nick Nicholas and Mike Kratsas. The foundation has design control over renovations there, Ziegler said, and is preparing to revamp the Thompson Building behind Market at Fifth, possibly with a first-floor restaurant.

Millcraft's Market Square Place, which includes the former G.C. Murphy Co. site, will feature more retail and restaurant space. Market Square itself is getting a makeover, into a European-style piazza.

Arnie DeCarolis said he has a vested interest in changes Downtown because he lives and works there. "It's going to be exceedingly different, and it's going to become much more like most Downtown areas that have this sort of ambience," he said after shopping at Heinz Healey's.

"The biggest thing is, you need to get more people to understand that it is here."

[chucka]

This is good news:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09281/1003861-53.stm#ixzz0TLgAx4K5
North Side's Priory Hotel to expand
Thursday, October 08, 2009
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Priory Hotel will expand next year from 24 units to 41 when it adds a new three-story building on the site of an apartment building that burned early this year at 1608 Pressley St. in Deutschtown.

The Historic Review Commission approved the plan yesterday.

The $1.75 million renovation will include an elevator that will make the hotel accessible to handicapped patrons, said John Graf, who owns the Priory, which his parents renovated from a monastery and established in 1986.

The new building, to be made of stone and brick, with a mansard roof, is adjacent to and will be integrated into the existing hotel, with a separate entrance accessible to room key holders.

"We should be in the ground by December and finished by September," said Mr. Graf.

The apartment that burned in the early hours of Jan. 4 was later condemned. Twenty-one people escaped safely. The Priory, which evacuated lodgers from 11 of its units, suffered smoke and water damage.

[cdc]

Here's one for Aaron...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09281/1003829-28.stm



How many restaurants are too many?
Thursday, October 08, 2009
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

As home to the Cheesecake Factory, the newly opened Hofbrauhaus German beer hall, and the soon-to-come Toby Keith restaurant, SouthSide Works is becoming a popular destination for diners.

But is it becoming too popular?

That's one of the questions a proposed $15,000 city Urban Redevelopment Authority study will seek to answer.

...

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09281/1003829-28.stm#ixzz0TLo9WzPN

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09281/1003829-28.stm#ixzz0TLlBjyKi

[AaronPGH]

I still believe that Soffer needs put the brakes on retail/entertainment development down there and get moving on apartments quickly. I'm afraid that SSW bubble could burst without more of a residential component there to prop it up.

They should have maxed out the amount of people living there from the beginning before they started plonking down these huge megachain restaurants and retail stores. The overall mix of the built out plan is correct, but they did it in the wrong order.

Anyway...I've officially gone and done it. I put my house down the street from the works on the market on Monday. I am ready for a change in crowd and scenery. East End here I come!

[PA Pride]

Anyway...I've officially gone and done it. I put my house down the street from the works on the market on Monday. I am ready for a change in crowd and scenery. East End here I come!

Just when the Toby Keith bar was coming.... What bad timing. :(

[AaronPGH]

Just when the Toby Keith bar was coming.... What bad timing. :(

I know, right? What was I thinking!

[Evergrey]

I still believe that Soffer needs put the brakes on retail/entertainment development down there and get moving on apartments quickly. I'm afraid that SSW bubble could burst without more of a residential component there to prop it up.

They should have maxed out the amount of people living there from the beginning before they started plonking down these huge megachain restaurants and retail stores. The overall mix of the built out plan is correct, but they did it in the wrong order.


http://pittsburgh.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/stories/2009/09/28/story1.html

Friday, September 25, 2009

Pittsburgh's South Side faces apartment debate

Pittsburgh Business Times - by Tim Schooley

New apartment development plans for SouthSide Works are facing old restrictions. Years after a Mayor Tom Murphy-era master plan was designed to redevelop the former steel mill site into a mixed-use mecca of offices, restaurants and shops, the owner of the development’s existing apartment complex, Carson Street Commons, is holding the city to its restriction against more apartments being built at the site.

Originally, The Soffer Organization, the primary developer of SouthSide Works, planned to top off the restaurant-and-retail portion of the development with a mix of high-end condominiums. Then, in the wake of an international credit crunch caused in large part by an American mortgage meltdown, the word “condo” began leaving a nasty aftertaste with bankers and investors. Now, Soffer has shifted away from condos and plans to develop an apartment building with 130 units behind an REI store. The project would compete with the development’s existing apartment property, the 270-unit Carson Street Commons.

Carson Street Commons was developed by Columbus-based Continental Real Estate Cos. and is now owned by project’s original lender, Nationwide Mutual Insurance Co., and managed by Dallas-based Lincoln Property Co. Brian Ellis, president and COO of Nationwide’s real estate development division, Nationwide Realty Investors, said the company has been open to discussions about reconsidering the restrictions but emphasized the restriction is a key component of the company’s investment.

“We have a pretty clear right to that restriction. I don’t think there’s any ambiguity,” he said. “When we made the investment in the SouthSide Works, this was an important consideration to the investment and it continues to be.” “They just don’t want to see a competitor come in that is going to take away from their ability to operate their apartments,” said Kevin Keane, a regional vice president for Lincoln Property. “In my mind, it’s not an unusual situation.”

In a commercial real estate market in which it is still difficult to get financing, Pittsburgh has ranked No. 1 nationwide as the city with the highest apartment rental occupancy rate for the past two years. Keane said occupancy at Carson Street Commons is more than 95 percent. Rob Stephany, executive director of Pittsburgh’s Urban Redevelopment Authority, said he has been having ongoing discussions with Nationwide over the restriction and hopes to resolve the situation. He said the original restriction includes a clause that would allow them to ease up on the restriction given changing market conditions.

Soffer President R. Damian Soffer said he is less concerned about Nationwide’s effort to uphold the restriction than he is over the need for another parking garage for tenants of the new apartment building. At the same time, across Hot Metal Street, Downtown-based developer Ralph Falbo has decided to morph his plans for a 35- or 40-unit condo project into a 39-unit apartment building on a site between the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Sports Medicine Complex and a hotel under construction near the Hot Metal Bridge. Falbo said he has reached an agreement with Nationwide to develop his apartment project, the terms and conditions of which he wouldn’t specify. Ellis, however, said Nationwide has had discussions with Falbo but not yet finalized a deal. “We’re going through our final costing to firm this up so we can get a financing arrangement and finally get in the ground by the spring,” he said.

While he saw no reason for any company in Nationwide’s position not to try to uphold such an agreement, Rick Belloli, executive director of the South Side Local Development Co., also said there is little reason to think Carson Street Commons won’t continue to be highly occupied for a long time to come regardless of the outcome. “The SouthSide Works residential has been fully leased since the day it opened,” Belloli said. “I don’t think that there’s really great concern from a market perspective about absorption. It’s pretty solid.”

tschooley@bizjournals.com | (412) 208-3826

[Brandon716]

Just when the Toby Keith bar was coming.... What bad timing. :(

LOL

[Grimacista]

URA seeks RFPs for final four parcels of Pittsburgh Technology Center

http://www.popcitymedia.com/devnews/techcenter1007.aspx

Emerging technology, Higher education, Real estate, Redevelopment
Downtown & The Cultural District, Oakland, South Side The Urban Redevelopment Authority (URA) of Pittsburgh announced last week it is formally seeking requests for proposals to develop the final four sites of the Pittsburgh Technology Center.
The four built-to-suit parcels, which are cleared and ready for building, range in size from nearly three-quarters of an acre to just over an acre-and-a-half.


"These four sites are the last remaining parcels east of the Hot Metal Bridge," says Megan Stearman with the URA. "They're the final pieces of this development site. Getting it fully built means more tax revenue for the city, more jobs and more opportunity to advance the technology industry that is transforming Pittsburgh."


The Technology Center is located along the Monongahela riverfront in Hazelwood, just down the hill from Oakland's universities and hospitals, across the Hot Metal Bridge from the South Side, and a short distance from Downtown. The office park includes a 723-space parking garage and access to public transportation.


Over the past 12 years, seven buildings totaling almost 700,000 square-feet have been developed at the Technology Center, and are fully leased at this time. The 48-acre Technology Center, which was built on property formerly used as a steel mill site, now hosts regional technology leaders including the University of Pittsburgh Center of Biotechnology and Bioengineering, the Carnegie Mellon Entertainment Technology Center, Ansaldo STS USA (formerly known as Union Switch & Signal), Thermo Fisher Scientific, and the Sunoco Polypropylene Research and Development Center.


The Technology Center is a nationally recognized example of brownfield reclamation, and the first project in Pennsylvania to use tax increment financing. The site currently generates more than $1 million in annual local tax revenues.


The asking price for the land will start at $570,000. The URA will be accepting proposals on a rolling deadline.


Writer: Caralyn Green
Source: Megan Stearman, Urban Redevelopment Authority


Image courtesy of Urban Redevelopment Authority


The latest $46 million building to go up at the technology park:
http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/224571-0-0-2.jpg


If the Pittsburgh Technology Center has been so successful in bringing new businesses and businesses that pay taxes to that land, why not just get moving on the old mill monstrosity that is sitting there in Hazelwood and make that part of the Pittsburgh Technology Center?

[pj3000]

If the Pittsburgh Technology Center has been so successful in bringing new businesses and businesses that pay taxes to that land, why not just get moving on the old mill monstrosity that is sitting there in Hazelwood and make that part of the Pittsburgh Technology Center?

The former J&L/LTV site is the city's largest brownfield site, sitting on about 200 acres of flat riverfront land. I know that CMU's robotics test facility is located there and there has been other interest in redevelopment (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/business/s_618996.html).

I think that site also lies within the route of the proposed Mon-Fayette expressway?

City plan from 2001:
http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/cp/assets/Final%20Presentation.pdf



http://youwillneverfind.us/landarts09/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/JL-in-SS0123.jpg

[pj3000]

^It's interesting to see the Eliza Furnaces and the Hot Metal Bridge and realize that it wasn't that long ago at all. I remember those mills/blast furnaces on either side of the Mon distinctly.

[Wheelingman04]

I will be amazed in the Mon-Fayette Expressway gets finished within 20yrs.

[Minivan Werner]

Hate to be a Debbie Downer, here..

http://www.wpxi.com/news/21239500/detail.html

PITTSBURGH -- A new report by the American Lung Association ranked Pittsburgh air quality as the dirtiest in the nation.

Gone are the days of complete mid-day darkness in Pittsburgh, but the local leaders want to change Pittsburgh’s new bad reputation for poor air quality.

I couldn't find the topic via search but wasn't this claim somewhat busted in previous years based on the location of the air quality sensors? Being conveniently down-wind of some major factories.

[Coneybear]

I'm really surprised Pittsburgh has worse air quality than LA. Doesn't LA have constant smog clouds?

[pj3000]

Hate to be a Debbie Downer, here..

http://www.wpxi.com/news/21239500/detail.html



I couldn't find the topic via search but wasn't this claim somewhat busted in previous years based on the location of the air quality sensors? Being conveniently down-wind of some major factories.

True. Monitoring equipment was located downwind of the Clairton Coke Works.

However, Pittsburgh's air quality is not good at all. I was recently involved in an environmental health symposium with UPMC, CMU, and Alcoa on the very topic of Pittsburgh's poor air quality. Shocking numbers for the region, regardless of the methodologies used. We need to do much better around here.

[bradjl2009]

Hate to be a Debbie Downer, here..

http://www.wpxi.com/news/21239500/detail.html



I couldn't find the topic via search but wasn't this claim somewhat busted in previous years based on the location of the air quality sensors? Being conveniently down-wind of some major factories.

Yes, you're right. The ALA's severely biased way of doing this meant only taking the worst air quality sensor instead of taking an average of all of them. I think I saw Pittsburgh wouldn't even be in the top 25 if the ALA did their average a more intelligent way.

[bradjl2009]

True. Monitoring equipment was located downwind of the Clairton Coke Works.

However, Pittsburgh's air quality is not good at all. I was recently involved in an environmental health symposium with UPMC, CMU, and Alcoa on the very topic of Pittsburgh's poor air quality. Shocking numbers for the region, regardless of the methodologies used. We need to do much better around here.
Much of the air quality problems here actually aren't entirely our fault. The biggest reasons for high numbers in our area include winds from the west bringing dirty air from other areas here and the valleys and hill then can have a tendency to trap the air and it can't move out as well as it couldn't in a flatter area.

[pj3000]

^ Whose "fault" it is and topography are irrelevant to the discussion. The fact is, the Pittsburgh region's air quality is bad.

It's true that pollutants migrate from southern Ohio and West Virginia to SW PA, but SW PA also has some of the dirtiest power plants in the nation. Couple that with our terrain which creates a thermal inversion pollution trap, and you get really crappy air quality.

[Juicedog1313]

Does anyone know anything about this project "The Crucible"? I found it on Lubetz Architects site while researching the glass lofts project. It's in their featured projects section on their home page so I'm guessing it's happening? It looks pretty awesome...but I can't figure out where this is based on the description? Appears to be a mixed use redevelopment.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8054/picture1k.png

This building is smack dab against the 31st street bridge. It's an old industrial building in the Strip. And yes, from what I saw...it is being rehabbed.
I think it will end up looking fantastic.

[George Woods]

And if they ever get to developing the tow pound, it's right behind that Crucible building. This summer, they were repointing all the bricks, which is a big undertaking on a building that huge. I ride my bike past it every day, and they were doing that for a long time. Beside that, I haven't noticed any other work on the exterior. But, yeah, big potential. And across the bridge from the movie studio, and across Smallman from those new apartments in the old school house. The 6th-ward chunck of the Strip is finally shaping up.

[George Woods]

And does anybody know what's being built on the Northside between North Shore Drive and General Robinson Street, under the highway, across from the garage? I see the foundation for a building, but what building? Does anyone have a rendering?