PDA

You are viewing a trimmed-down version of the SkyscraperPage.com discussion forum.  For the full version follow the link below.

View Full Version : LAS VEGAS | Boom Project Rundown! 2.0



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 [15] 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92

future29
Jan 13, 2007, 8:31 AM
driving down the strip i saw the whole south end of the front (the corner entrance-stairs, walkways, statues) where all detroyed...(purposely) looks like the monte is getting a make over?

i hope my prediction comes true. it was asked a couple months ago what needs to go/get demolished and i said Monte carlo. it doesnt fit in with city center. hopefully, they can keep the builiding for now but put a new facade on it and glass on the tower? i was in vegas for CES and there is a big hole in the side of the building looks like they have gutted a portion of the casino. duno what their plans are, but definately the Monte Carlo should go, sooner rather than later.

SpeedyFarrar
Jan 13, 2007, 8:52 AM
Those new PCC renderings plus shots of the model condo interiors in the sales office are in here (starting on page 13):
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/10/101502/presentations/011107Citigroup.pdf

Patrick
Jan 13, 2007, 9:45 AM
WOW! Those renderings kick ass! Now I love CityCenter! Lets just hope those renderings dont lie..

MrVegas
Jan 13, 2007, 6:47 PM
Here is an article from today's Las Vegas Review Journal about the end of the Sandhurst project.

Downtown condominium Sandhurst shutting down

By HUBBLE SMITH
REVIEW-JOURNAL
The developer of Sandhurst, one of the early high-rise condo projects announced for downtown Las Vegas, said Friday he's returning more than $7 million in deposits to 105 buyers as rising construction costs have doomed yet another condo project.
"It doesn't mean this project won't come back. We just don't see the value of holding up our buyers," Michael Mirolla said. "We're working with the group of investors who have title to the land, who still want to build Sandhurst, and if we can resurrect it, we'll reach out to the buyers."
Mirolla said he appreciates the "tenacity and loyalty" of Sandhurst buyers, many of whom had their money in escrow since July, but he felt the right thing to do was return their deposits.
Sandhurst had more than 60 percent of its units under contract and was negotiating with Corus Bank for roughly $250 million in construction financing, but coming up with equity financing was the "toughest portion," Mirolla said.
"Construction prices hurt us last year. Quite frankly, after pricing jumped so high, investors looked at this and wanted to wait until construction costs stabilize, which they have," he said. "But time marches on, and investors march on to other areas."
Mirolla said his group has tens of millions of dollars invested in the 3.2-acre site on former Union Pacific Railroad land near Charleston Boulevard and Interstate 15, including entitlements, site planning and approval and soft costs such as design and marketing. The property was purchased from Union Pacific in July 2004 for $2.8 million and has been appraised at $24 million, he said.
"We've taken it as far as we can. We're two weeks from pulling permits from the building department. But in all fairness to the buyers, we have to get funding first," he said.
Jeremy Aguero, principal of Applied Analysis, a Las Vegas research firm, was among the first to predict that only 30 percent of the proposed 100,000 high-rise units would be built. He said sales have fallen significantly in the past three months.
"It's not the first and I'm here to tell you it's not going to be the last," Aguero said of Sandhurst's cancellation.
Sandhurst was planned for 398 units originally priced from $250,000 when the project was announced two years ago. The price went up to $475,000 when construction costs rose by 30 percent in 2005. The 35-story project was scheduled to break ground in September 2005.

Find this article at:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2007/Jan-13-Sat-2007/business/11956754.html

MsuMix
Jan 14, 2007, 2:33 AM
Scott, do you know if Cosmo is making any large progressions, aside from pouring foundation in that whole, or setting up a crane?

Still a lot of foundation work being done, 3 tower cranes are set up, just not erected yet. Structural steel starting late February on the west side. Lots of mass excavation and slurry wall tie backs to finish on the east side.

ScottG
Jan 14, 2007, 3:01 AM
^^^thats more cosmo news than i know. sorry

the city center renderings are amazing- looked real at first!...notice that in the second image the cosmo is in it?!

but its jacked up...the west tower is not as long as it really will be and the jocky club is shown as well....weird.

i LOVE how the 2 main towers are separate at the top but meat at the bottom.

BTW- the ebony tower (is that the name? or vdara- im confused now) (and whats the leaning ones called?) anyways- in the front of the site- and either corner, there are towers....the mandarin and the harmon. in the front center are the 2 leaning towers, in the back center is the main tower(S) then in the back right there is the ebony tower. BUT in the back right...nothing? is this going to be phase 2? i remember the initial renderings showed 4 condo towers back there. i wonder why the lack of developement in that corner? the monte carlo garage is over there. so is the new theatre. maybe the theatre is why?

Patrick
Jan 14, 2007, 3:40 AM
but its jacked up...the west tower is not as long as it really will be and the jocky club is shown as well....weird.

BUT in the back right...nothing? is this going to be phase 2? i remember the initial renderings showed 4 condo towers back there. i wonder why the lack of developement in that corner? the monte carlo garage is over there. so is the new theatre. maybe the theatre is why?


If you look closely the renderings are squeezed, to fit the pages, CityCenter looks thinner as well, even though its not.

That was the way old (and better) design of CityCenter. They are probably saving this space for later phases. I mean, 4 more new towers!? The Project first has to sell units first! :P

mdiederi
Jan 14, 2007, 7:26 AM
Drove by Saturday and noticed they were almost finished assembling a second tower crane for Vdara.

Steven C.
Jan 15, 2007, 6:23 AM
You guys seem to really be impressed with Trump Tower. It is not a strip property. It is on Industrial Road. The Frontier is such a dump and nobody knows when it will be replaced and with what design. When it is imploded it will put Trump right in the middle of a multi-year mess of dust and construction activity. The Trump has low ceiling heights, no terrace, no nightlife or casino within walking distance. No lady in her high fashion wear is going to want to walk to the Wynn at night. The rooms are so-so. And the whole design reminds me of an out-dated golden popcycle. I know it sold out fast and the remaining units are $850 k for a studio. There are so much better projects being built than this.

Do you live in las vegas? I drive past the trump project almost every week depending on traffic... So a few things you dont seem to understand.

1. Trump is right across the street from the Fashion show mall. Cant say i would spend $4000 on a handbag, but maybe some of these women in high fashion would go there for shopping?

2. Not to mention the high end dining in the same mall.

3. when completed, there will be services at the tower. it will not be only residential.

4. the target demographic will have transportation in the form of their own vehicle or a driver service.

5. trump was NEVER intended to be a full service resort tower. Never, ever....

and the lease on the frontier has been renewed to only january 1st, 2008. Who knows what happens after that.

Steven C.
Jan 15, 2007, 6:29 AM
Happy New Year to all!! My prediction for the Maxim property is it is waiting for MGM to decide the future of Circus Circus, then MGM could potentially acquire the Travelodge land adjacent to the Maxim property, buy the Maxim property and now you have a sweet parcel of land. This happened with Echelon buying the Westward Ho land and given the odd shape of the Maxim property it's one possible scenario.

Sky is looking great and thanks mdiederi for the great photos of Sky and the landscaping. Most high rises wait until the project is closed to add the exterior infrastrucuture and Sky is not doing that. It's going to be one first class tower!!

however the chances of circus circus dissapearing are slim. i would suspect that even if it were rebuilt, it would keep the same brand name ala the aladdin... due to the name recognition it brings.

you have any idea how many people from the UK stay at CC?

manabouttown
Jan 15, 2007, 8:52 AM
steve,
yes, i live in Vegas.
when buying a unit in Miami, being a 5 iron from the beach is not as valuable as being on it. in new york, being on central park is better than being a street away. Alot better.
trump will offer some dinning and not much else.(I have been thru for a tour) have you?

All developments have shopping, you dont spend 850k to go to the mall across the street.

If you think that Maggios cafe in the mall is high-end, then i can see why you like trump.

Answer these questions, then you can analyze strip condotels.

1.Is it a prime strip -fronted location, or a nearby location?
2.Does it have a full experience on the property,without leaving the property, ie. casino(yes, we are in Vegas), shopping (lots of it), restaurants with name chefs, full spa?
3.Which development has the largest and most luxurious room?
4.Does one offer a terrace? What is the view?
5.Is one marketed and managed by a well-know world wide company? Who offers the largest business and luxury oriented traveler data base to draw from?
6. How do the units compare on a price per sq. ft. basis? (I know all the numbers, I will bet you dont have a clue)

Answer these steve and you may begin to enable yourself to have an intelligent opinion on strip projects.

mdiederi
Jan 15, 2007, 3:29 PM
however the chances of circus circus dissapearing are slim. i would suspect that even if it were rebuilt, it would keep the same brand name ala the aladdin... due to the name recognition it brings.

you have any idea how many people from the UK stay at CC?
Found this on Wikipedia:
The hotel may be demolished and rebuilt. According to an MGM Mirage report, the Circus Circus site "does not make economic use of the 44 acres that it sits on, therefore, we feel that demolishing the current property and rebuilding it in a different fashion (while still keeping the Circus Circus name) will be in our best interest."
Haven't been able to locate the actual report they are quoting. But obviously, after Echelon and Fontainebleau open, Circus Circus will not be able to compete with its new neighbors. Plus, there's a huge area attached to Circus Circus that is currently just an RV park that could be developed into something significant. But don't expect anything to happen until PCC is finished or near complete.

TheOldMan
Jan 16, 2007, 1:45 AM
hey guys, i just completed a move to vegas and i love it here. there is an enormous amount of hi-rise construction. amazing..... anyway, i drive by the stip every day to go to work (ive been living here about 2 months now) and i see the Trump tower under construction, but i dont seem to see it getting any taller. from what i understand , it is supposed to top out at over 640 feet but for the last three or four weeks, it looks like it hasnt gotten any taller. am i imagining things or is there a delay. any info would be great

hotdog
Jan 16, 2007, 1:48 AM
I think manabouttown is actually Rosie O'Donnell. And while Trump towers are not on Las Vegas Blvd., they will be in walking distance to most of the classy, high end properties (Wynn, Encore, Palazzo, Echelon, maybe Montreux), without being too close to the theme park resorts (as CityCenter will be). And it is not too far north (as Allure is) where the surrounding neighborhood may never improve from the souvenir shops, abandoned lots, and beggars in strip malls on Sahara. So the higher price/sq.ft. is justified. The final arbiter of value is the market, and the quick sale of the units proves that they were not overpriced this last year. In future years, when a buyer goes to resell a unit, that value will still be there, most likely.

ScottG
Jan 16, 2007, 3:21 AM
Robin: LuXor To Change Name to The Pyramid

Vegas gossip hound and former host of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, Robin Leach (Leech?) is reporting that LuXor my possibly change its name before its bevy of new night clubs opens on Memorial Day weekend.

Of course, he says its just a rumor, but with all the changes going on over there we won't discount this rumor completely.

It'll probably be denied as fast as I'm typing it, but delicious rumor around that the Luxor will possibly change its name to The Pyramid, and it might come as soon asMay 31st (Memorial Day weekend) when the resort-casino opens its new LAX and ROXY nightclubs from Los Angeles, being operated by the PURE management men! They've also partnered with pop star Nick Lachey, who has already taped video spots for his new Aspen 702 Steakhouse Lodge they're opening with him at the pyramid-shaped hotel.


^^^^^i think thatll NEVER happen!



New York-New York to Add Night Clubs, Change Stuff Up

In Business Las Vegas has published an interview with Lorenzo Creighton, President of New York-New York Hotel & Casino. Mr. Creighton outlines a number of plans for readjusting New York-New York's focus for the next few years, including the removal of the children's arcade, installation of clubs and bars and a general shift towards 'adult' marketing at the property. Here's an excerpt of Mr. Creighton's comments:

In our evolution at New York-New York, we're planning to do a lot of things, and those are going to come to fruition here in '07 and '08. We're going to put in some nightclubs, we're going to add some meeting space (after clearing out half of the arcade). We're going to correct some of those issues to make New York-New York what we call a little more "sticky." We have so many people who come through here because it's such an iconic building, we need to pull in those customers in and keep them here.

The customers who want to stay here want to have more fun. Vegas is about having fun. One of the ways we can do that is to have some more places where they can have fun. We're going to add one nightclub and one hip, edgy, trendy kind of bar.

This is the only [nightclub] I can talk about at this time - we've tentatively announced it. (The nightclub) is called Rok Vegas. It's a concept that's out of Miami, and there's one in L.A. The operator we're working with is a joint venture, has a very good following. It's not "rock 'n' roll" it's Rok, and nobody has a Rok club in Vegas, so we're excited about that. We're putting it in our (old Rita Rudner) theater space here. It's about 5,000-6,000 square feet plus. The design is knock-your-socks-off. We're starting the final demolition of that space and building that club here in the middle of 2007.

mdiederi
Jan 16, 2007, 4:19 AM
hey guys, i just completed a move to vegas and i love it here. there is an enormous amount of hi-rise construction. amazing..... anyway, i drive by the stip every day to go to work (ive been living here about 2 months now) and i see the Trump tower under construction, but i dont seem to see it getting any taller. from what i understand , it is supposed to top out at over 640 feet but for the last three or four weeks, it looks like it hasnt gotten any taller. am i imagining things or is there a delay. any info would be great
Think there's still about ten more floors to go on Trump. I noticed a slow down too on other projects. It's been windy the last few weeks, and while construction continues, some of the crane activity was slowed down a little bit during gusty periods, especially at the higher levels. Though they did manage to get both tower cranes for Vdara erected. The north crane on Palazzo hasn't been raised in a long time and the floors are already higher than the crane.

jazfingr
Jan 16, 2007, 10:26 AM
Manabouttown, take a look a Vegas from a "Google earth", you will notice that the walk from Trump to the strip is the same as from the Forum Tower in Caesars or the shopping area in the Mirage, to the strip. The only difference is the the others are indoors. Once Ruffin does something with Frontier, it will be connected as well. it's a .23 mile walk from Trump to the strip, it's also a .23 mile walk from the east most to the west most room, in the MGM Grand (one long-ass hallway)

Frankly, I do not care for the Trump project, but in all fairness, it's not at all far from the strip (by Vegas standards).

Let's cool the mild flames here. This thread has survived two incarnations with over 3400 posts with no flaming or hijacking. cool?? cool!! :D

manabouttown
Jan 16, 2007, 7:00 PM
Property right on the strip is worth far more than property close by. I used to live on Ocean Ave. in Carlsbad. It is right on the ocean. Property on the other side of the small street (30 Ft.) east, was worth 1/3 of the beach front. Every high priced piece of land is always surrounded by good parcels. They just are not worth nearly as much as the prime piece.
Trump's property is located on valuable land in a good location. But it is not as good as a property on the prime location. The major casino companies know that. That is why they are all on the strip, when possible. The B properties are near the strip.
If Trump sold for a discount then it would be an ok deal.

The MGM Signature properties will be my last example for your education. They are only renting 45% of the month. Why is that? They are beautiful and are (by your theories) near and within walking distance to the strip and shopping etc.

Some people want to spend their bucks on Central park and ocean property. Some want to be close so they can walk there. No problem, everyone determines where they want to be on the totem pole.

clark
Jan 16, 2007, 10:05 PM
Property right on the strip is worth far more than property close by. I used to live on Ocean Ave. in Carlsbad. It is right on the ocean. Property on the other side of the small street (30 Ft.) east, was worth 1/3 of the beach front. Every high priced piece of land is always surrounded by good parcels. They just are not worth nearly as much as the prime piece.
Trump's property is located on valuable land in a good location. But it is not as good as a property on the prime location. The major casino companies know that. That is why they are all on the strip, when possible. The B properties are near the strip.
If Trump sold for a discount then it would be an ok deal.

The MGM Signature properties will be my last example for your education. They are only renting 45% of the month. Why is that? They are beautiful and are (by your theories) near and within walking distance to the strip and shopping etc.

Some people want to spend their bucks on Central park and ocean property. Some want to be close so they can walk there. No problem, everyone determines where they want to be on the totem pole.

In my opinion, that's partially accurate. I'm a commercial real estate appraiser. I've appraised as many high-rise condominium projects in Las Vegas over the past couple of years as anyone. I have also appraised several pieces of land on and just off the Strip.

Land on the Strip is certainly worth more than land off, but it's not to the factor implied above. For example, the former Cowtown site on Paradise sold in late 2005 for $15.5 million an acre. That's not exactly the $20 million and up current Strip properties are listed and selling for, but it's not exactly 1/3 of that either.

For a condo or condotel project, there are advantages and disadvantages to being directly on the Strip. The disadvantage is access. Trump, and I agree that there is better bang-for-the-buck at other projects, has a prime location as it can be accessed without having to go on Las Vegas Boulevard. Newer projects (Echelon, CityCenter, etc.) are planning to make their entries off of Frank Sinatra Drive, Dean Martin Drive or Industrial Road as impressive, or nearly as impressive, as their entries from the Strip due to major traffic problems on Las Vegas Boulevard.

As can be shown by the aerials at the assessor's website, Trump has excellent access to Fashion Show Mall (using the "measuring tool" there, it looks to be 100-200 feet from the entry to Nordstrom to the future entry to Trump). When Ruffin replaces the New Frontier with an upscale resort, Trump will have access to an upscale resort. I think it's likely that the new project will have the name Trump in the title. I don't think Trump's location is any detriment, and this is the first I heard it was.

There are very few condo and condotel projects that are directly on the Strip, possibly only Sky and Cosmopolitan. The mixed use projects or condotel project associated with a resort tend to put their condotel projects away from the Strip toward ancillary access roads.

As an aside, being off the Strip hasn't exactly hurt the Palms or Palms Place.

jazfingr
Jan 16, 2007, 10:42 PM
Let's all agree to disagree and move on. Trump is an a$$ and will always command more $$ for anything with his name on it. "If he builds it, they will buy".:hell:


So...

...I have the Fontainebleau rendering. It is shaped just like the one in the Las Vegas Tower renderings. I have been asked to wait before publishing the image. I will post it here first. The image is looking north at the side of the project that borders the Riv. The podium is a lot-filling trapezoid shape (about 30-40 feet high with pool and spa facilities on top. The tower is simple, modern and clad in blue glass.

I think the project is just right for the area, and I feel most will agree.

"the Pyramid" lol, that is the dumbest idea I've heard in a long time. They should just clean it up and leave the name alone.

NYNY getting rid of the kiddie attractions and adult-izing the property is a great idea. If they would get rid of the bright purple and green glass on two of the "buildings" the tower would look more like a city and less like a cartoon.

mttbox
Jan 16, 2007, 11:50 PM
When Ruffin replaces the New Frontier with an upscale resort, Trump will have access ....

any one know what happen to Montreux? are they going to built it? or if Ruffin now looking for anther design?

nsxdrift_89
Jan 17, 2007, 4:25 AM
^^^
From what I've heard, the project has been influx for a couple of reasons. One, Ruffin wanted to personally finance the project, and ran into a load of problems, securing financing. In addition to that, there has been speculation that Steve Wynn, Donald Trump, and PBL's James Packer are considering moving in, and purchasing the property, to jointly develop it.

I've never been a fan, of Montreux, simply due to the fact, that it is basically an exterior copy of Bellagio, and an interior copy of Wynn Las Vegas (replacing the red and chocolate, with browns and teal).

MrVegas
Jan 17, 2007, 6:27 AM
Vdara construction
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/8741/vdarabx3.jpg

A view of Project City Center from the back
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6010/pccbackzx7.jpg

Cosmopolitan
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/2962/cosmodv1.jpg

BruceH
Jan 17, 2007, 6:59 AM
Property right on the strip is worth far more than property close by. I used to live on Ocean Ave. in Carlsbad. It is right on the ocean. Property on the other side of the small street (30 Ft.) east, was worth 1/3 of the beach front. Every high priced piece of land is always surrounded by good parcels. They just are not worth nearly as much as the prime piece.
Trump's property is located on valuable land in a good location. But it is not as good as a property on the prime location. The major casino companies know that. That is why they are all on the strip, when possible. The B properties are near the strip.
If Trump sold for a discount then it would be an ok deal.

The MGM Signature properties will be my last example for your education. They are only renting 45% of the month. Why is that? They are beautiful and are (by your theories) near and within walking distance to the strip and shopping etc.

Some people want to spend their bucks on Central park and ocean property. Some want to be close so they can walk there. No problem, everyone determines where they want to be on the totem pole.

Trump vs MGM Signature is like night vs day. MGM Signature (I'm an owner) is having dismal rental demand due to several factors including poor branding. You can't have the public think they are MGM Grand Residences then rename to MGM Signature but still advertise as Residences. MGM Signature is a beautiful project and way under marketed. Poor marketing equals low demand which equals low rent and low property valuations. With over 200 resales on the market now if this situation continues expect a lot more to hit the resale market. It's a huge shame as Forbes who was with us recently commented that such a high end property is not being marketed well. Trump on the other hand is a master at marketing and based on sales for Trump Panama and Trump Waikiki as examples, he's still on a roll. His projects quickly sell out, have premium prices and demand is strong to stay in them. Now if we could just get some of that Trump marketing over to MGM Signature it would be a golden property too. Oh, and yes, we know every high rise, every floor plate, every price per sq foot by high rise so there is more than one expert in town.

mdiederi
Jan 17, 2007, 3:09 PM
Vdara construction

A view of Project City Center from the back

Cosmopolitan
Cool, you got some angles we hadn't seen before.

Can you add those pictures to the Las Vegas: Project CityCenter construction thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=109405)?

Think that's another parking garage they are starting on in the back there.

Is that yellow structure the start of the Cosmo core?

gmcclenon
Jan 17, 2007, 3:15 PM
Trump vs MGM Signature is like night vs day. MGM Signature (I'm an owner) is having dismal rental demand due to several factors including poor branding. You can't have the public think they are MGM Grand Residences then rename to MGM Signature but still advertise as Residences. MGM Signature is a beautiful project and way under marketed. Poor marketing equals low demand which equals low rent and low property valuations. With over 200 resales on the market now if this situation continues expect a lot more to hit the resale market. It's a huge shame as Forbes who was with us recently commented that such a high end property is not being marketed well. Trump on the other hand is a master at marketing and based on sales for Trump Panama and Trump Waikiki as examples, he's still on a roll. His projects quickly sell out, have premium prices and demand is strong to stay in them. Now if we could just get some of that Trump marketing over to MGM Signature it would be a golden property too. Oh, and yes, we know every high rise, every floor plate, every price per sq foot by high rise so there is more than one expert in town.

Good point Bruce. With MGM being so marketing savvy with their resorts, hotels and new developments - do you think they are just clueless or have they turned their backs on these condotels? I would think with the (50%?) rental revenue sharing they are doing with the owners they would come back and help with the marketing, branding and renting of these units. Maybe they are just spread a little thin with PCC and all their foreign ventures.

mttbox
Jan 17, 2007, 6:51 PM
Lets just have a vote!

Trump Tower LV: Love It / Hate It

mttbox
Jan 17, 2007, 6:52 PM
Trump Tower: LOVE IT !!!

Fido
Jan 17, 2007, 7:52 PM
Trump Tower LV : Love it too!

LMich
Jan 18, 2007, 1:57 AM
There is actually something in between love and hate, contrary to popular belief, and that's where Trump lies for me.

sky-of-webs
Jan 18, 2007, 2:01 AM
Trump Tower---- Never really cared for this project. still don't.
And I've been very disapointed that after almost twenty years of eagerly awaiting Trump's entrance into Vegas that this was it. Keeping my fingers crossed that maybe there will more than just one singular person (Steve Wynn) for people to hail about.
And please people, Steve Wynn didn't make Vegas and isn't gods gift to the Strips rise or its continued growth. He is a darn good name (Wynn---win) and face to grab attention, but the real credit needs to go to Kirk Kerkorian and Bill Bennet.

ebatcave
Jan 18, 2007, 5:05 AM
I purchased both Cosmo and Trump (both on floors 30+ and south facing) so I love them both!

illmatic774
Jan 18, 2007, 2:44 PM
There is actually something in between love and hate, contrary to popular belief, and that's where Trump lies for me.

i don't think thats an option ;)

Anyways, I like it.

Bender13
Jan 18, 2007, 4:55 PM
Sorry to interrupt the Trump love/hate fest. But I saw this in todays Sun. The Tommy Rockers tower is dead.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/commentary/2007/jan/18/566625944.html
Today: January 18, 2007 at 7:8:35 PST

John Katsilometes on what might be the next phase of Tommy Rocker's Cantina (Hint: Think topless)


Tommy Rocker's high hopes for a condominium tower are all but dead, and the guitar-playing restaurateur is eyeing topless dancers.

These are related developments.

A year ago Rocker (real name: Thomas Greenough) unveiled plans for a 46-story, 252-unit condo tower near the southwest corner of Dean Martin Drive and Flamingo Road, which since 1995 has been the site of his locally famous Tommy Rocker's Cantina. The high rise was to cost $150 million, and Rocker had investigated various design innovations for the project (including an automated "robotic parking" structure), which was to be finished by 2008. But as a result of the local market's increasing labor and material costs, Rocker has shelved his lofty plans.

"Fortunately I didn't have much money invested in the project," Rocker said Tuesday night during a fundraiser at his club for the Professional Drivers Association of Las Vegas cabdrivers.

Instead, Rocker has been dropping in on topless joints ("just for research and development," he qualifies) and is seriously considering turning his business into an adult club. He holds a license for a topless business on his current property and says he could have the club turned into just that in about nine months.

Rocker estimates he would make 10 times the profit at a topless club than he would as manager of the cantina, which is essentially a bar that serves food and offers video poker as Rocker performs classic rock songs for festive patrons (many of them tipsy Parrotheads).

Rocker noted that adult clubs, like casinos, are exempt from the recently passed smoking ordinance banning smoking in any establishment that serves food. He is already mulling over what he would call the place - it would no longer be a "Tommy Rocker's," but he might borrow from the club's address on Dean Martin Drive: 4275.

Don Pacho
Jan 18, 2007, 5:20 PM
Trump Tower---- Never really cared for this project. still don't.
And I've been very disapointed that after almost twenty years of eagerly awaiting Trump's entrance into Vegas that this was it. Keeping my fingers crossed that maybe there will more than just one singular person (Steve Wynn) for people to hail about.
And please people, Steve Wynn didn't make Vegas and isn't gods gift to the Strips rise or its continued growth. He is a darn good name (Wynn---win) and face to grab attention, but the real credit needs to go to Kirk Kerkorian and Bill Bennet.

Steve Wynn did not make Vegas but did change the face of Vegas.
When he built Mirage, then Treasure Island, continue by Bellagio and so on, Vegas was not going to be the same anymore.
No one had the free strip shows before: the volcano, pirate show, dancing fountains, etc.

mdiederi
Jan 18, 2007, 6:18 PM
On this site http://www.bwaltd.com/ go to the "featured projects" and they have renderings of the Maxim plus a video. It's three silver mirror and bright red towers. Click on "vision" and they show a blue tower where the Barbary Coast is now. Also, click on "Shoma 38" which has renderings of 5 towers on Tropicana near Koval.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/Max1.jpg

future29
Jan 18, 2007, 9:03 PM
wow, nice find mdiederi!:tup:

also found on the site is the One Trop project and Dezer. what are they and where are they located?

SpeedyFarrar
Jan 18, 2007, 11:04 PM
On this site http://www.bwaltd.com/ go to the "featured projects" and they have renderings of the Maxim plus a video. It's three silver mirror and bright red towers. Click on "vision" and they show a blue tower where the Barbary Coast is now. Also, click on "Shoma 38" which has renderings of 5 towers on Tropicana near Koval.

In the Maxim video, you can see the Fontainebleau across the street, its a nice blue (or is that bleau ;)) color. The Maxim looks awful, I hope MGM Mirage buys that land for the future redone Circus Circus/Project City Center North

Bender13
Jan 18, 2007, 11:39 PM
My initial thoughts was that Maxim was ugly. But looking at it more, and trying to picture it actually built, I think it will look good. I love the silvery glass, and the striking red color, could work (hopefully it won't be as bad as Planet Hollywoods failed blue). It's definitely the type of architecture that can only work in Vegas.

Great find mdiederi, btw. The Maxim video does show the fountainbleau pretty good. It's huge! I think it's a pretty accurate rendering of it, because jazfingr said it's the same shape as it was shown in the Las Vegas Tower rendering, and that's the shape in the video. I can't wait for jazfingrs image so we can see it with detail.

gmcclenon
Jan 18, 2007, 11:50 PM
On this site http://www.bwaltd.com/ go to the "featured projects" and they have renderings of the Maxim plus a video. It's three silver mirror and bright red towers. Click on "vision" and they show a blue tower where the Barbary Coast is now. Also, click on "Shoma 38" which has renderings of 5 towers on Tropicana near Koval.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/Max1.jpg

Wow! Great find. I believe the Fontainebleau in that video is rendered in its original 1000' proposed height. I'm only saying that because it's literally twice as tall as Sky and the four Turnberry Towers at around 500 feet. Other than that, it looks identical to the rendering from the LVTI site. Nice "pool" area. Looks like a lagoon.

mdiederi
Jan 19, 2007, 1:35 AM
Heard that MGM Grand Hotel is going to expand and build a 580 ft tall tower (almost twice the height of the green building) next to the conference center, adding 1,700 more hotel rooms.

future29
Jan 19, 2007, 8:30 AM
In the Maxim video, you can see the Fontainebleau across the street, its a nice blue (or is that bleau ;)) color.
Contrary to popular belief, Fontainebleau is pronounced (fon-tan-blow) and not (fon-tan-blu). Blue in french is spelled bleu not bleau but this is besides the point because blue has nothing to do with the name. It is the name of a town in France, southeast of Paris. now with that out of the way, i cant wait to see the rendering from jazfingr.

mdiederi
Jan 19, 2007, 3:14 PM
New tower crane at World Market Center.

Construction trailers setting up at Gehry's brain building site.

SpeedyFarrar
Jan 19, 2007, 8:13 PM
Contrary to popular belief, Fontainebleau is pronounced (fon-tan-blow) and not (fon-tan-blu). Blue in french is spelled bleu not bleau but this is besides the point because blue has nothing to do with the name. It is the name of a town in France, southeast of Paris. now with that out of the way, i cant wait to see the rendering from jazfingr.

Hah, I obviously dont know French :haha:

SpeedyFarrar
Jan 20, 2007, 4:48 AM
Heard that MGM Grand Hotel is going to expand and build a 580 ft tall tower (almost twice the height of the green building) next to the conference center, adding 1,700 more hotel rooms.

They don't need more rooms at MGM, 5000 is plenty, its the second biggest hotel in the world. They should add a second tower to The Mirage instead, they "only" have 3000 rooms.

ScottG
Jan 20, 2007, 4:50 AM
i have worked with some people who are working on the fountainblea (sp) and every one pronounces it fountaine-blue. ive never heard a 'blow' version. it kinda sounds odd....is that how the city is pronounced?

ScottG
Jan 20, 2007, 4:52 AM
oh. i just realized. for city center, none of the towers have signs on them (maybe cuz they are unsure of the look/names?) (or maybe they are staying away from branding on the towers?) also there is never a sign in the renderings....of course it would have at least 1 or 2 signs. right? i would doubt they wouldnt. (possibly it is yet another architectural design that will be 'unveiled' soon)

ScottG
Jan 20, 2007, 4:56 AM
someone mentioned a while back that the 2 leaning towers are out of place and block the main towers at citycenter.....and, after looking at the latest renderings, i might agree. do you think they would actually fit nicer if they were rotated 90 degrees. one leaning towards the strip, the other towards the main towers....?

mdiederi
Jan 20, 2007, 7:38 AM
They don't need more rooms at MGM, 5000 is plenty, its the second biggest hotel in the world. They should add a second tower to The Mirage instead, they "only" have 3000 rooms.
Guess they have to keep up with their neighbors. The Tropicana across the street is going to build 9,276 hotel rooms (http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsnetapps/agendaweb/Data/P0200546.htm).

You're right about the Mirage though. In the last MGM presentation they earmarked the employee garage in between the volcano and TI for development. This map shows the area in red on the Mirage site and it's right on Las Vegas Blvd. A boutique hotel would fit nicely there. It also shows a red area on the MGM grand site between the meeting center and the green Grand Hotel and that's where the new tower is proposed. It's all just rumor though and haven't seen anything official yet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/mgmmap.jpg

Look how much land they have available at Circus Circus that they can build something on to compete with Echelon and Fontainebleau in the future. It goes all the way up to Sahara along Industrial.

future29
Jan 20, 2007, 9:37 AM
i have worked with some people who are working on the fountainblea (sp) and every one pronounces it fountaine-blue. ive never heard a 'blow' version. it kinda sounds odd....is that how the city is pronounced?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fontainebleau

ignorance is bliss!

ScottG
Jan 21, 2007, 4:17 AM
^^^ thats funny- someone should tell the people who are building the thing. I really never herd the 'correct' version.....wait....even the news says the the 'known' way...maybe turnberry changed the pronounciation?

jazfingr
Jan 21, 2007, 8:51 AM
It's snobby French, like Le Reve. If you pronounce them correctly, you sound affected and stuck-up.

jazfingr
Jan 22, 2007, 10:04 AM
Verge is a new condo proposal for downtown (no renderings yet). The project will be north of Bonanza and East of Main. You can see it on THE Downtown map (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/THEdowntownMAP.htm) I should have renderings soon.

Fontainebleau is still being pissy about their renderings :shrug: , hopefully I can show them to you soon.

ScottG
Jan 24, 2007, 4:03 AM
NEW "TOWER"

http://www.manhattanization.com/news/city-towers-downtown.rub

Patrick
Jan 24, 2007, 5:47 AM
I'm still here :P

Trump - Boring, never was excited about it
Maxim - I love it
Theplace - Blah, almost identical to Thehotel

Tropicana Towers staying
Technically

http://www.manhattanization.com/news/a-new-tropicana-on-the-rise.rub

jazfingr
Jan 24, 2007, 10:08 AM
OK I'll play,

Trump:
I hate gold glass.
I wouldn't want a condo without a balcony.
Even if I liked the Tower (which I do not) I wouldn't do anything that would put more money in that a$$holes pocket.

Maxim:
I like it, but only in Vegas could a red and silver building work.
It's too dense for the lot.
Owners of Sky are complaining about the project causing a permanent shadow on their pool area.

THE Place
I hate gold glass
Just as blah as THE Hotel, except it does have balconies.
To close to THE Pyramid

mdiederi
Jan 24, 2007, 2:39 PM
NEW "TOWER"

http://www.manhattanization.com/news/city-towers-downtown.rub

Why does that article say that City Towers will be built in the "Las Vegas core"? The site is actually located in old down town Henderson.

BruceH
Jan 25, 2007, 8:19 PM
Amazing to watch the process of preparing Stardust for implosion. Each day more and more floors are exposed so you can look through the building to the mountains. No glass, just concrete and steel remaining.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8422/stardustreadyimplodeweb3as.jpg

This was shot today and each night more floors are prepared. http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/echelon-resort.html Echelon will start soon to take its place!!

BruceH
Jan 25, 2007, 8:36 PM
When you consider the multi-Billion dollar projects with high end luxury architecture like Fontainebleau, Echelon with Shangri-La, Delano, Borgatta and Mondrian boutique hotels, Conrad-Waldorf-Astoria, Trump, Wynn and Palazzo, the Maxim project is not only way too dense and massive for its acreage imho but is also like placing Hooters next to Turnberry Place. It doesn't fit with the surrounding architecture and luxury level of nearby properties. Will be interesting to see the outcome of the Sky versus Maxim upcoming battle. If you spent over $1 million for your Sky condo, would you want a project like Maxim's current design next door to you or Echelon?

ScottG
Jan 25, 2007, 10:11 PM
^^^uh circus circus is there.....and aint goin anywhere.

BruceH
Jan 25, 2007, 10:27 PM
^^^uh circus circus is there.....and aint goin anywhere.
It's just a matter of time. It's totally out of place with what's coming around it other than Maxim. With several fires already at Circus Circus its days are numbered.

Patrick
Jan 25, 2007, 10:33 PM
Amazing to watch the process of preparing Stardust for implosion. Each day more and more floors are exposed so you can look through the building to the mountains. No glass, just concrete and steel remaining.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8422/stardustreadyimplodeweb3as.jpg

This was shot today and each night more floors are prepared. http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/echelon-resort.html Echelon will start soon to take its place!!

What a shame, the tower was fairly new, completed in 1991. The tower seemed to be an icon of the Las Vegas Skyline for the 90's, with its blue and red stripes at night.

mttbox
Jan 26, 2007, 7:08 AM
I purchased both Cosmo and Trump (both on floors 30+ and south facing) so I love them both!

What are you going to do with the trump after the completion? I mean if you are going to go with the trump rental program? So far all I know is that you split 55%(owner) / 45%(trump) if you go with the trump rental program, does any one know any more detail about the trump rental program? The sales person at trump will not talk about it due to some policy, Or is it better to look for an out side rental management company to rent out the studio? Does out side management company rent out the unit as a hotel room or a long term contract? I’m trying to find out what I’m going to do with my unit at trump when complete.

ebatcave
Jan 26, 2007, 1:44 PM
Yes, I'm going to use the Trump rental program. They have not been forthcoming on their rental program; Cosmo has provided significantly more information to date and they have a great program. I assume Trump will come out with more details shortly.

PeteK
Jan 27, 2007, 7:20 PM
Interesting topic ebatcave. I too "own" a condo at the Cosmo. I was not impressed with the legals of the contract (>50% split to owners, really NO control over your use of the condo etc.) and was also interested in finding a rental management company to provide the rental program. I am sure the Grand Hyatt has a good delivery system for the rentals, but typically the nightly rentals create much more wear and tear on a unit than longer (week-month) rentals. Let me know if you know or find one interested. With all the hype over the problems MGM is having renting their condos it would seem this type of business would be lucrative. It's pretty commonplace for realtors in FLA and other resort areas to provide this service but I haven't found one in LV (yet).

Great forum and I really enjoy the pics you folks are taking of the changes happening almost daily in LV. Thanks alot for your posts. :tup:

David J
Jan 29, 2007, 4:46 PM
Its interesting, I've read a couple posts of the Signature MGM having rental problems. I'm in building A and was one of the first units to be available. To this point I have been happy with the way its going. The unit has been averaging about 14 to 17 rental days a month which usually covers my note. In addition, I love the flexability of the rental program. I can use it any time I like with virtually no advanced notice! They also treat me like royalty at the building. When my rental aggreement is over, I can choose to rent it on my own or sell it(for it has a kitchen) as a livable condo. I'm really quite happy with it.

ScottG
Jan 29, 2007, 9:51 PM
weird- the diagrams list is jacked. the strat is gone and las vegas and garcia is 2nd tallest? also any building without a diagram is not listed. whats goin on?

ScottG
Jan 29, 2007, 9:53 PM
vtat hasnew renderings of wrold jewelery center....the mid rise portions tho- no tower images...

http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/trade_centers.htm

mttbox
Jan 30, 2007, 1:08 AM
testing, just want to see if this is the way to post picture.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/mttbox/trump/SP_A0212.jpg

jazfingr
Jan 30, 2007, 8:29 AM
The folks from Las Vegas Wet contacted me, demanding that I remove WetLV from the south map (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/southmap.htm). They insist that it "will" be built in a different place.

Well, that site, across from the Las Vegas Outlet Mall, is the only site that matches their description. That location has many parcels, owned by different folks, so, I suppose this is one of those hush hush land assembly things. I'll guess, If they do announce a location, it will be the same site.

mttbox
Jan 30, 2007, 8:36 AM
sorry...just testing.

jazfingr
Jan 30, 2007, 8:57 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/374283280_1ba619c45b_o.jpg


Thought you guys would like to see the old plans for the Westward Ho site, by Voyager. I was
told not to post them (back then), because it showed the McDonald's land being used.

So, since Boyd owns the land now and plans to use it for Echelon (phase two),
I can finally show them. The buildings in the back were to be condo towers.

IMHO I think it's kinda mugly.

BTW I am not yet allowed to reveal the Fontainebleau renderings...and I'm itching to show them.



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/374283281_3f5f15e45b_o.jpg

jazfingr
Jan 30, 2007, 9:00 AM
dupe post

PeteK
Jan 31, 2007, 2:41 AM
David,

I'm glad to hear that your condo is being rented. :tup: It has significance for all of us as we are all in the same boat. Unfortunately, you said you're getting 14-17 days per month which translates to a 46-56% occupancy rate vs. the current 88%-93% most strip properties are attaining. True, you are using the property yourself and you do have flexibility in this regard. However, with the Cosmo T&C's, revenue split and expenses, 14-17 days per month is a losing propostion.

I am interested in hiring a private management company that revenue shares 80%-20% or even 75%-25% without having limited owner access and forced nightly rentals. If anyone knows of a company that handles condo rentals I would be interested in hearing. No hurry, latest completion estimates for the Cosmo is 2008 which means 2009 in real terms (when I bought they said it would be done in 2007!).

MsuMix
Jan 31, 2007, 2:59 AM
march 2010 is the current

ScottG
Jan 31, 2007, 3:24 AM
those westward ho plans were revealed a while ago. i dont remember where tho......but i know ive seen those renderings before....that is a bit "futuristic"design concept

PeteK
Jan 31, 2007, 5:59 AM
Gee, thanks for the update MSU. Any other developments worth noting? I'll be in town in March. I wonder if the nice folks at the sales center on Harmon will take me on a construction tour?:koko:

studionews
Jan 31, 2007, 12:15 PM
Does anyone have any news ?

mdiederi
Jan 31, 2007, 2:55 PM
Does anyone have any news ?
There are a lot of rumors about people trying to buy out Ruffin.

mdiederi
Jan 31, 2007, 2:57 PM
Saw some blue lights turned on at Sky last night.

gmcclenon
Jan 31, 2007, 5:36 PM
Saw some blue lights turned on at Sky last night.

Really? Cool. Wonder if they've thrown the power on in the building. Did it look like the lights were on inside and were shining through the blue glass or were there some sort of blue lights lighting up the outside?

I noticed they turned on the red aircraft lights on top the other week...

mdiederi
Jan 31, 2007, 10:20 PM
Only saw it from about a mile away, but it looked like it was glowing blue through the glass windows, very subtle, not like bright lights pointed at the building.

ScottG
Feb 1, 2007, 1:46 AM
VIDEO of how the stardust looks today at vegastripping.com

http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=1470

ScottG
Feb 1, 2007, 1:51 AM
Another Harrah’s Bid?
I don’t even begin to understand the ins and outs of high finance. After all, I don’t even have a savings account and my version of big stakes financial affairs is inserting my ATM card into the machine and hoping that money actually comes out.
But when the Las Vegas Business Press reports, in an arcane money-speak kind of way, that another bid may be in the works for Harrah’s – one that could top the recently approved $27 billion bid from a Texas-based investment group – even the financially challenged like me pay attention.

These rumors have been floating around for the last couple of weeks in various media outlets and very few details have emerged but the Las Vegas Business Press says that a major investment banking firm has stopped rating Harrah’s temporarily. Why? Well, no one is saying but it often means that said investment banking firm is advising someone who may want to buy the company – someone other than the folks who are already offering to pony up $27 billion. There has also been some serious movement in Harrah’s stock futures, which could mean that word has gotten out that another, bigger offer could be in the works.

Stay tuned.

ScottG
Feb 1, 2007, 1:54 AM
Harrah's to Sell Rio to Maloof?
January 29, 2007
We've heard all sorts of rumors about the sale of the Rio to various parties. Well, this one I can see maybe actually happening, just because it seems to actually make sense.

The Poker Prof says that the Rio is going to Maloof. We shall see.

ScottG
Feb 2, 2007, 5:41 AM
the luxor light was off tonight! i drove past at 9 pm and it was oddly dark. weirdly black in that area- that light really makes a difference. but it was off!

and i SWEAR i was something on top of the pyramid....it looked like a person was standing on the very tip of the thing....i know the over rated chris angel is doin his show there...maybe some--over rated- stunt is going on there...

i walked thru the aladin tonight too. and i must say i really like what they did. are doing to the place. the casino is one of best on the strip. i like the faux wood they have on the walls (even tho you can tell its laminate) and the black tile all over is real classy. it reflects like well. i like the silver, brown, and black theme they have goin. sexy

the mall on the other hand has yet to be touched. and that will be alot of work, they have changed some signage reading miracle mile, but that its. they are actually workin fast on the hotel. construction is constant. day and night.

oh and they are asvertisements on the new planet hollywood towers....so is coming. coming soon.

manabouttown
Feb 3, 2007, 1:01 AM
Sky condo owners decry rooms without a view

By Brian Wargo / Staff Writer


The Sky Las Vegas condominiums on Las Vegas Boulevard near Circus Circus Drive are nearing completion.
Photo by R. Marsh Starks


For residents of the $350 million, 45-story Sky Las Vegas condo tower set to open this spring, a dark shadow is looming on the horizon

To the disbelief of many owners of the 409-unit luxury high rise on the Las Vegas Strip, the Clark County Planning Commission has given its blessing for the Maxim 300-room hotel and casino and 1,860 condominium units just south of Sky Las Vegas. Residents called the project too dense for the 8-acre site on the west side of Las Vegas Boulevard, just north of Circus Circus Drive.

Sky condo owners are now urging Clark County commissioners, which will has the final say on Feb. 7, to reject the request of Concord Wilshire Acquisitions, which based on their analysis of the drawings, would leave the residents in the dark and without the mountain and Strip views they expect.

"It looks like a wall of towers," said Bruce Hiatt, a broker and co-owner of Luxury Realty Group who along with more than 34 clients bought a condo at Sky. "My clients are outraged, and they are sending letters left and right (to commissioners) protesting this and demanding a public hearing and sitting down and talking because it's almost like putting a wall in your face."

The Sky Las Vegas condos are priced between $700,000 to in excess of $4 million. More than 50 units remain for sale.

Hiatt said owners who paid $1 million or more for a condo in the corner that has a southern view of the Strip will apparently have those Times Square-like views blocked. It also appears the Maxim project will take away sunlight from the tower and pool, residents said.

Maxim's attorneys, Kummer Kaempfer Bonner & Renshaw, are expected to argue that the project has the approval of county staff, the town board and planning commission. "We are not asking for any deviation of use permits that have not been granted to similarly-situated properties," said Chris Kaempfer, whose firm seeks entitlements for Las Vegas Valley projects, including Sky Las Vegas.

Residents said they realize they aren't entitled to views but it's wrong for developer to deviate from codes and blocks views, block sunlight, and cast shadows. That's not very neighborly, they said.

Kaempfer said views. shadows and sunlight aren't protected and said that it's considered an inescapable consequence of growth.

"Clark County commissioners have taken the position that views, especially on the Las Vegas Strip, are not a protectable interest," Kaempfer said.

The Maxim project is designed with three towers of 43, 42 and 35 stories with the highest point measuring 732 feet.

Maxim isn't entitled to that height, and instead it's left to the discretion of commissioners, said Clark County Planning Manager Chuck Pulsipher. Maxim has requested the county deviate from codes by allowing a high rise 122 feet from Las Vegas Boulevard where 200 feet is currently required.

Sky Las Vegas received a similar variance with its distance from Las Vegas Boulevard at 49 feet where 150 feet was required.

David Pourbaba, Sky's president, urged commissioners to delay any consideration of the project until Sky has a chance to conduct its own study gauging Maxim's impact. The review will take three to four months, he said.

Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani, who represents the area, said she will urge her colleagues to delay the vote to give boths sides a chance to talk. She said she hasn't taken a position at this time.

Sky officials acknowledged a property owner's right to develop its site but said any project should take into consideration the environmental and community impacts it has on the neighborhood, existing developments and city resources.

Sky Chief Executive M. Aaron Yashouafar said he's optimistic commissioners will approve a project only if it's compatible with the surroundings.

Sky residents have expressed their outrage in letters to the commission. Gregory and Barbara Abbott of Las Vegas said it's not workable to have such a high-density project next to Sky. In addition to the lost views of the mountains and Strip and loss of sunlight and moonlight, it will be more difficult for emergency vehicles to service the community given the traffic.

Avis and Elliot Titcher of Philadelphia, who plan to use their condo as a second home, said they chose their unit for its views of the Strip and mountains.

"Since our unit would be overlooking Maxim, it is a real possibility we would have to keep our shades drawn as people could look into our apartment," the Titchers wrote. "That is totally unacceptable."

There will be 175,000 square feet of casino, restaurants, retail and bars and 465,000 square feet of convention space and back-of the-house areas.

Brian Wargo covers real estate and development for In Business Las Vegas and its sister publication, the Las Vegas Sun. He can be reached at (702) 443-3604 or by e-mail at wargo@lasvegassun.com.
IBLV Homepage


Could the mentioned B. Hiatt be the same person that was so critical of the homeowners on the other side of the strip who didnt want the tall developments by them. NIMBY. When the shoe is on the other foot, it may pinch a little. As a real estate expert as he is so quick to point out, he should know that views are not protected. I think he may have even said that himself.

justdefended
Feb 3, 2007, 1:06 AM
Good point Bruce. With MGM being so marketing savvy with their resorts, hotels and new developments - do you think they are just clueless or have they turned their backs on these condotels? I would think with the (50%?) rental revenue sharing they are doing with the owners they would come back and help with the marketing, branding and renting of these units. Maybe they are just spread a little thin with PCC and all their foreign ventures.

New to the boards. Hi everyone!

I was interested in this discussion about The Signature at MGM Grand. I know a few who will be owners in Tower C and rental income is a concern.

As a property, it definitely has what it takes to attract visitors - location, amenities, non-smoking, personalized service, and access to MGM Grand and the LV Monorail station.

I think the slow roll out in visitors is due to the fact that the project isn't complete. While technically Tower A and Tower B are open for business, the project isn't marketable to its fullest because Tower C and its ameneties aren't finished. In order for it to be marketed correctly, the entire hotel should be fully operational to advertise all of The Signature's key features. Tower C will introduce additional conference space, another Starbucks location and another Fitness Center on the property. Also, in Jan. Tower B introduced a on-site Deli called Delights at The Signature, a commodity that wasn't available when advertising Tower A.

In marketing materials, consumers don't like to hear this and that coming soon, they want a list of all the features - total room numbers available, total number of pools, listing of all eateries, total square footage of conference space, etc. As of yet, MGM can't even take a publicity photo of the three towers because of Tower C's on-going construction. The Signature website still must employ a rendering of the final three buildings.

Also, the project doesn't have a grand opening momentum like that of a hotel casino. A slashy debut with news crews around isn't going to happen for most condo hotel projects. The roll out will be much more like that of THEhotel extension at Mandalay Bay - never saw a commercial for it, but word-of-mouth spread and it has found its audience.

The promotions for The Signature are starting. I recently received an offer from MGM for The Signature that included Golf Credit, Food & Beverage Credit and a discounted rate. Funny enough, the photo enclosed Photoshopped out the Tower C construction.

Also, The Signature is currently the No. 1 most popular Las Vegas hotel on TripAdvisor, the largest travel community in the world. After only seven months on the market that's quite a feat. It continues to receive sensational reviews by visitors. The most important advertising at the moment is word of mouth and it certainly has that going for it.

Like all condo hotel projects, its a risk, and hotels wouldn't be offering the opportunity to buy into the project unless it made sense for them first. However, I think it has the ability to work. It's a new process for every owner in Vegas and it's going to take time before investors benefit from their purchase.

SLC Projects
Feb 3, 2007, 4:17 AM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/374283280_1ba619c45b_o.jpg




http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/374283281_3f5f15e45b_o.jpg



Wow. Are they really going to built that thing? That is so cool. kind of reminds me of the London Eye in London. :yes:

jazfingr
Feb 3, 2007, 4:30 AM
:previous: That is a dead project. The folks a Voyager do want to build a wheel in vegas, and there has been 5 failed locations. You can see them all here (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/voyager.htm).

LMich
Feb 3, 2007, 4:56 AM
And, boy, am I glad that disaster is dead.

PeteK
Feb 3, 2007, 5:14 AM
Good points, justdefended. I tend to agree with your "wait and see" approach. I wanted to stay at the Signature during my upcoming trip in March, however I have a $200 lower rate from the Mirage. I still may stay at the Signature as I am very interested in seeing their product as it compares to the Cosmo and CityCenter models.

It is hard to justify the current investment in market terms when your money is on the line. Anything less than 75% occupancy will probably cost you money in real terms. What the future holds is anyone's guess but I'm sure some of the investors were looking for a quick flip and now the less than enthusiastic response to the rental program has them scrambling financially. Some of the more savvy investors are looking at these investments as a current tax loss and are betting on the future appreciation (difference between 31% ordinary income tax loss and 15% capital gain rate). In any event, short term rentals seem to be the most logical approach to these condotels.

Even though the units look really nice, I wonder how many folks will actually live there. If I had to guess I would think it would be a very small percentage. All the hype produced by the brokerage community about turning the strip into a "residential community" is bunk IMO. Changing the nature of the greatest party town in the world is not going to happen overnight. Me, I can't hardly stand more than a week in LV; I can't imagine living on the strip unless I worked there (and you will have to have a damn good paying job to afford 600k+ digs). I don't disagree that there is enough monied folks out there that can afford to have a vacation home on the strip - but the carrying charges for this luxury can really add up. If you don't rent your condo and don't live in it a significant amount of time, why would you want to own. You can "rent" at the Wynn or Bellagio at a much cheaper overall cost.

Just my opinion. :cool:

jazfingr
Feb 3, 2007, 5:50 AM
And, boy, am I glad that disaster is dead.

amen to that

LMich
Feb 3, 2007, 6:34 AM
BTW, I just love (and by love, I mean find interesting) how developers in Vegas are going so aggressive with these projects in that they will totally almost literally build around other properties out of spite. lol (i.e. Jockey Club, this old Voyager proposal...) Just look at the proposal, above, it's like they are trying to completely drown out Circus Circus as if it didn't even exist.

BruceH
Feb 3, 2007, 6:46 AM
Really? Cool. Wonder if they've thrown the power on in the building. Did it look like the lights were on inside and were shining through the blue glass or were there some sort of blue lights lighting up the outside?

I noticed they turned on the red aircraft lights on top the other week...

Power has been live in the building for several weeks now. Freight elevator is the main source for the workers to go up into the tower now. Sky is looking awesome with stone walls on the first level entrance into the building from the parking garage. Lots of beautiful details appearing no one knew were being installed in http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/sky-las-vegas.htmlSky. Can't wait to move into it!!

justdefended
Feb 3, 2007, 6:51 AM
Good points, justdefended. I tend to agree with your "wait and see" approach. I wanted to stay at the Signature during my upcoming trip in March, however I have a $200 lower rate from the Mirage. I still may stay at the Signature as I am very interested in seeing their product as it compares to the Cosmo and CityCenter models.

It is hard to justify the current investment in market terms when your money is on the line. Anything less than 75% occupancy will probably cost you money in real terms. What the future holds is anyone's guess but I'm sure some of the investors were looking for a quick flip and now the less than enthusiastic response to the rental program has them scrambling financially. Some of the more savvy investors are looking at these investments as a current tax loss and are betting on the future appreciation (difference between 31% ordinary income tax loss and 15% capital gain rate). In any event, short term rentals seem to be the most logical approach to these condotels.

Even though the units look really nice, I wonder how many folks will actually live there. If I had to guess I would think it would be a very small percentage. All the hype produced by the brokerage community about turning the strip into a "residential community" is bunk IMO. Changing the nature of the greatest party town in the world is not going to happen overnight. Me, I can't hardly stand more than a week in LV; I can't imagine living on the strip unless I worked there (and you will have to have a damn good paying job to afford 600k+ digs). I don't disagree that there is enough monied folks out there that can afford to have a vacation home on the strip - but the carrying charges for this luxury can really add up. If you don't rent your condo and don't live in it a significant amount of time, why would you want to own. You can "rent" at the Wynn or Bellagio at a much cheaper overall cost.

Just my opinion. :cool:

I agree PeteK. It is much cheaper to rent out stays at any major hotel and choose to switch each time!

I believe that most investing in the condo hotel business see it as a long-term investment. While there are those who would like to flip the property, most want to own a vacation home in the middle of the strip and make some rental income for it on the side. This clearly isn't an investment to gamble with if you can't afford it.

I think appreciation should hold for the most luxury properties, particularly those connected to a strong brand name. The current $10B in investment in Harmon Ave. alone (CityCenter, Cosmopolitan, Signature) should make an impact in property value in the long term.

It is interesting to see the buying trend at CityCenter. MGM says that the interest is split into thirds among The Residences at Mandarin Oriental (residential), Veer (residential), and Vdara (condo hotel). The first two projects definitely make attractive trophy homes to international buyers.

BruceH
Feb 3, 2007, 6:54 AM
Sky condo owners decry rooms without a view

By Brian Wargo / Staff Writer


The Sky Las Vegas condominiums on Las Vegas Boulevard near Circus Circus Drive are nearing completion.
Photo by R. Marsh Starks


For residents of the $350 million, 45-story Sky Las Vegas condo tower set to open this spring, a dark shadow is looming on the horizon

To the disbelief of many owners of the 409-unit luxury high rise on the Las Vegas Strip, the Clark County Planning Commission has given its blessing for the Maxim 300-room hotel and casino and 1,860 condominium units just south of Sky Las Vegas. Residents called the project too dense for the 8-acre site on the west side of Las Vegas Boulevard, just north of Circus Circus Drive.

Sky condo owners are now urging Clark County commissioners, which will has the final say on Feb. 7, to reject the request of Concord Wilshire Acquisitions, which based on their analysis of the drawings, would leave the residents in the dark and without the mountain and Strip views they expect.

"It looks like a wall of towers," said Bruce Hiatt, a broker and co-owner of Luxury Realty Group who along with more than 34 clients bought a condo at Sky. "My clients are outraged, and they are sending letters left and right (to commissioners) protesting this and demanding a public hearing and sitting down and talking because it's almost like putting a wall in your face."

The Sky Las Vegas condos are priced between $700,000 to in excess of $4 million. More than 50 units remain for sale.

Hiatt said owners who paid $1 million or more for a condo in the corner that has a southern view of the Strip will apparently have those Times Square-like views blocked. It also appears the Maxim project will take away sunlight from the tower and pool, residents said.

Maxim's attorneys, Kummer Kaempfer Bonner & Renshaw, are expected to argue that the project has the approval of county staff, the town board and planning commission. "We are not asking for any deviation of use permits that have not been granted to similarly-situated properties," said Chris Kaempfer, whose firm seeks entitlements for Las Vegas Valley projects, including Sky Las Vegas.

Residents said they realize they aren't entitled to views but it's wrong for developer to deviate from codes and blocks views, block sunlight, and cast shadows. That's not very neighborly, they said.

Kaempfer said views. shadows and sunlight aren't protected and said that it's considered an inescapable consequence of growth.

"Clark County commissioners have taken the position that views, especially on the Las Vegas Strip, are not a protectable interest," Kaempfer said.

The Maxim project is designed with three towers of 43, 42 and 35 stories with the highest point measuring 732 feet.

Maxim isn't entitled to that height, and instead it's left to the discretion of commissioners, said Clark County Planning Manager Chuck Pulsipher. Maxim has requested the county deviate from codes by allowing a high rise 122 feet from Las Vegas Boulevard where 200 feet is currently required.

Sky Las Vegas received a similar variance with its distance from Las Vegas Boulevard at 49 feet where 150 feet was required.

David Pourbaba, Sky's president, urged commissioners to delay any consideration of the project until Sky has a chance to conduct its own study gauging Maxim's impact. The review will take three to four months, he said.

Commissioner Chris Giunchigliani, who represents the area, said she will urge her colleagues to delay the vote to give boths sides a chance to talk. She said she hasn't taken a position at this time.

Sky officials acknowledged a property owner's right to develop its site but said any project should take into consideration the environmental and community impacts it has on the neighborhood, existing developments and city resources.

Sky Chief Executive M. Aaron Yashouafar said he's optimistic commissioners will approve a project only if it's compatible with the surroundings.

Sky residents have expressed their outrage in letters to the commission. Gregory and Barbara Abbott of Las Vegas said it's not workable to have such a high-density project next to Sky. In addition to the lost views of the mountains and Strip and loss of sunlight and moonlight, it will be more difficult for emergency vehicles to service the community given the traffic.

Avis and Elliot Titcher of Philadelphia, who plan to use their condo as a second home, said they chose their unit for its views of the Strip and mountains.

"Since our unit would be overlooking Maxim, it is a real possibility we would have to keep our shades drawn as people could look into our apartment," the Titchers wrote. "That is totally unacceptable."

There will be 175,000 square feet of casino, restaurants, retail and bars and 465,000 square feet of convention space and back-of the-house areas.

Brian Wargo covers real estate and development for In Business Las Vegas and its sister publication, the Las Vegas Sun. He can be reached at (702) 443-3604 or by e-mail at wargo@lasvegassun.com.
IBLV Homepage


Could the mentioned B. Hiatt be the same person that was so critical of the homeowners on the other side of the strip who didnt want the tall developments by them. NIMBY. When the shoe is on the other foot, it may pinch a little. As a real estate expert as he is so quick to point out, he should know that views are not protected. I think he may have even said that himself.

It's not about views as they never have been protected. It's about extreme setback variances, how one project impacts another adjacent to it, a master planned perspective now that residential condos are coming into the Strip. City Center residential owners will pay all the way up to $3,000 a sq foot for the top of the Mandarin Oriental. Things are in a state of change now on the Strip and that's been my point all along. Future projects are going to have a difficult time being accepted in isolation of their adjacent properties. The County Commissioners are on record multiple times with those points.

bobmcelligott
Feb 3, 2007, 11:55 PM
It's not about views as they never have been protected. It's about extreme setback variances, how one project impacts another adjacent to it, a master planned perspective now that residential condos are coming into the Strip. City Center residential owners will pay all the way up to $3,000 a sq foot for the top of the Mandarin Oriental. Things are in a state of change now on the Strip and that's been my point all along. Future projects are going to have a difficult time being accepted in isolation of their adjacent properties. The County Commissioners are on record multiple times with those points.

Hey Bruce

Don't pay attention to this manabouttown loser. Have your read most of his comments. He only spews angry "I amounted to anyting so I'll vent on those who do" bs rhetoric to those of us trying to enjoy and comment on all the wonderful changes going on in Las Vegas. Somebody hug that guy.

BruceH
Feb 4, 2007, 12:25 AM
Hey Bruce

Don't pay attention to this manabouttown loser. Have your read most of his comments. He only spews angry "I amounted to anyting so I'll vent on those who do" bs rhetoric to those of us trying to enjoy and comment on all the wonderful changes going on in Las Vegas. Somebody hug that guy.

Appreciate your kind remarks Bob.

I wonder how MGM feels about the Maxim project impact regarding future valuation of their Circus Circus property with so much high density traffic pouring onto Circus Circus Drive? Can't imagine MGM being too excited about such heavy traffic when they either attempt to sell the Circus Circus land or redevelop it into a high end property like its neighbors. This surely is a consideration if MGM creates the hotel property REIT spinoff being discussed in financial circles now.

ScottG
Feb 4, 2007, 2:30 AM
so remember how alot of hotels got temporary sigage glued to their facades? -tony braxton, hairspray, prince, that rio horse show, etc. Remember?


well MORE hotel are getting dressed up. the ba all star thing is in town and there are alot of ads for adidas clothing. the mgm has a huge ad on its front. ballys has a huge shoe ad.

mandalay bay is getting one, and so it luxor.

i think all the mgm/mirage/mandalay hotels are getting big money from these companies for giving great advertisement space.