[jazfingr]

[QUOTE=ScottG;2654428]couple of updates:

I didn't see any foundation activity at hilton grand when I took these pictures last week, but I'm wondering about the activity at the northwest corner of the lot, maybe a staging area for future construction?


That's the parking garage. they need to clear the surface lots before they can build the other towers.

[justdefended]

Interesting questions VEGA$MAN. Here are my thoughts:

As far as offering a better product, I think MGM is great at branding. With Vdara, it plans to offer a chic, sophisticated hotel with a concentration on personalized service. As a new brand, and being part of the hype that is CityCenter, MGM is likely to raise the stakes to offer something that will appeal to discerning travelers. I liken it to MGM's take on the W brand.

First, it has an amazing location between the CityCenter resort and the Bellagio with pedestrian walkways to each location. Second, it'll be different from other offerings on the Strip, non-gaming, service-based, and modern. Third, it will be more accessible to consumers than other hotels at CityCenter, including the pricier Mandarin and Harmon hotels.

Now, all that is great, but it's hard to say that it will increase in value in the short term. Like The Signature, many investors thought they could perform a quick flip on the properties or break even on monthly rentals. However, MGM controls the market value of condo hotels at the moment. If Vdara started at $650,000, the perceived market value of The Signature would raise. But because Vdara starts at $500,000, the perceived value for The Signature remains about the same. They know that no one can built it as fast or price like they can, so they've taken advantage of that to ensure brisk sales. As for breaking even on monthly rentals, every investor I've talked to thought the exact opposite - they knew that it would be negative and thought it was a plus that rentals could pay for a percentage of the monthly mortgage.

However, owners at The Signature have succeeded in renting out units on their own to keep more of a percentage. There are A LOT of fees associated with the rental program, and taking rentals into your own hands can ensure a much larger revenue each month, it just takes some work.

Also, consider the value of having a project like CityCenter steps away from The Signature. That will be a huge selling point in the future for those who can incur the red for a few years.

I think a Signature owner could rationalize a Vdara purchase, but only if you're looking long-term. Vegas is changing rapidly and the hotels that will succeed (and command a higher daily room rate) are the ones that have the best service, period. As long as MGM keeps that a priority, room rates stay up, travelers check-in, and owners stay happy.

Okay - time for me to chime in on CityCenter here.

While all these numbers sound great for CityCenter, I really wonder how well resale units will do once you have every owner competing against one another [sometime in approx. early 2010], something which always occurs when you have a large speculator/flipper market, and something which has had disastrous consequences thus far with their sister property and condotel "guinea pig", the MGM Signature. Not a good precedent.

To add insult to injury, most of the Signature's owners have consistently been in the red since closing on their units since the middle of last year, something no one had expected to last, hence, the fire sales in the secondary (resale) market.:yuck:

I am speaking from first-hand experience with respect to the Signature, as I own a unit in Tower I, and what I paid is considered a bargain compared to what they will offer at CityCenter on a square foot comparison!

Question #1: Comparing apples to apples, will MGM really be able to offer up a better product and better service in a condotel like Vdara as compared to the Sig - which would potentially translate to increased demand and value upon resale - to justify paying such a premium just because of all this hype over CityCenter in general??? :koko:

Question #2: Being a bit of an insider, having done business with MGM, and having a partnership under their rental management agreement since mid-2006, how could any customer of the Sig ever rationalize a purchase at CC, when MGM lacks in their rental management service at the Sig, not to mention the egregious hidden fees and assessments they juice us to death with so there's no chance of a positive return unless double the room rates?

It is always great to hear that CC "is a real estate micro-market with its own supply, demand and prices", but that may mean absolutely nothing in 2010 when everyone will want to cash out because their notes aren't being covered (as is the case with the Signature). So, what's to say that the condotel Vdara will rise in value and then subsequently fall like Signature has (hopefully momentarily) done???:shrug:

From what I hear, CityCenter sales staff is playing it safe and is not releasing any figures as to the rental split on Vdara. Rumor has it, although, that a 70/30 split will be offered, in favor of the owner, but that means nothing if it isn't in writing from the get go. Why else would one want to buy a condotel if you're not in it for the cash flow? The studios are too small to live in and the one bedrooms don't pencil out. The only other folks would be multi-billionaires who could care less about cash flow and just want a place to crash or to put their mistress in - but that's a minority. 90% of all the buyers in the Sig are hard-working investors like myself who want a positive ROI. We bought it for one reason and one reason only and don't have time or the money to waste impressing people that don't make us $$$.:(

Bruce, et al, I know you have much insight into these issues, so let's here it from you experts out there!:yes:

[PeteK]

Good post, Vegasman. I agree with much of what you say. I "own" a unit at the Cosmo and have refused to sign the Grand Hyatt's generous offer of 47-49% split in rent and their rash of fees that make any serious investor want to puke. I would jump at a 70-30% split but I doubt anyone will be that generous. Even MGM. My concern is the abundance of units that will be on the market in the 2009-2010 time frame. If you are having trouble with cash flow now, what will it be like when the Cosmo and CityCenter come on line? Will the customer base grow that much in the next 2-3 years?

It's funny that you speak about the poor cash flows generated by the Sig. I am trying to stay there Mar. 16-20th but all I get is prices that equate to strip properties. If the market is wide open at the Sig, I would think they would be lowering their prices to help out the owners. If I could get a rate near the one I have at the Mirage, I'd be happy to stay at the Sig, however it's not even close. If they have priced me out of their market, it may be a wake up call to you. Someone in their marketing department needs to get in touch with the owners wishes and not what they would like the market to be. I'll guarantee you that it may be a lot harder to rent when the big two open on the strip. :slob:

[VEGA$MAN]

[QUOTE=PeteK;2658856]Good post, Vegasman. I agree with much of what you say. I "own" a unit at the Cosmo and have refused to sign the Grand Hyatt's generous offer of 47-49% split in rent and their rash of fees that make any serious investor want to puke.

Is Grand Hyatt the rental management co. appointed by Cosmo? I would love to see a copy of their agreement so I could compare it to the Sig's.

I would think that the demand for rooms will increase over time; why would developers and their investors be pouring billions into all these new hotel developments on the strip unless they knew they would profit? We have to look at our little investment as a mini-hotelier the same way. The question is whether these management companies appointed by the developer are on par with the quality of the development itself.

The one good positive thing is this: I will NEVER AGAIN be able to acquire ANYTHING ON LAS VEGAS BLVD., regardles of whether it's a condotel or residential property at the per square foot price I paid three years ago for the my Sig unit! :banana:

I think and hope that time will heal all; it's whether one has the ability to stay the course during the time it's ramping up in terms of ironing out the bugs (remember, we are the proverbial guinea pig for the rest of the condotel market in Vegas), the room rates, and an aggressive marketing campaign - and feed the negative cash flow.

To make myself and other investors feel better, you have to liken this to a participation in a syndicated limited partnership of a multi-unit commercial building; usually the first 2-3 years none of the limited partners make a dime, and only the managing GP makes his management fee. In this case, our "GP", the MGM, I heard throught the grapevine is actually NOT making the profit they thought either, as costs have increased across the board since they formed their budget.

I think if you bought right at Cosmo, much like those of us did in Tower I at the Sig, you will realize it is a true blue chip investment. How can you possibly go wrong with that location??? It's unparalled. Mid-strip, next to the B's water fountain, next to CC, and with unobstructed views...need I say more. I would've snatched one myself, but timing and committments prevented me from moving on one.

I know it'd be nice to at the very least cover your note every month, but in reality, who cares, as long as you have that staying power. After all the amateur speculators and growth spurt dust settles, you will not regret it.

[gmcclenon]

Here is a related luxury high-rise condo story. My buddy bought a unit in San Francisco several years back when the luxury high-rise market just began there. He was worried about the resale market in his complex softening by getting diluted with the flood of new units from new projects going up across the street. The opposite happened. The new project's repeated price increases drove up the comps in the area and his unit went up with them. When his building first went live, there was a glut of resales as flippers bailed out. Then the market stabilized and began to climb.

I think any high-rise market is unique in that there is always a short-term glut due to the simultaneous release of all units and the number of investors looking to flip them at that time. And with condotels, we have an artificially high vacancy rate that will most likely not last. Vegas runs a 90+% hotel occupancy rate. Highest in the nation. But I agree, there is a lot of elasticity in the market. Lower prices would certainly correspond with higher occupancy rates at the Sig. It also didn't help that MGM changed the branding and the name of the project mid-stream.

[justdefended]

PeteK, if you refuse to sign the rental agreement offer are you going to rent out the unit yourself? At 47-49% for the split, revenue is likely to be only 35 to 39 percent after all other fees, even lower than The Signature.

Several investors I know are debating whether to enter the MGM rental program. There are an insane amount of fees that were not disclosed during purchase. The only worry is that the unit will dilapidate quickly without MGM performing repairs, daily upkeep, etc.

A 70-30 split at Vdara may reflect the fact that owners will have to pay much higher association fees (rep said $1.25 per square foot), and other related non-disclosed fees per month. Still sounds too good to be true! :)

Good post, Vegasman. I agree with much of what you say. I "own" a unit at the Cosmo and have refused to sign the Grand Hyatt's generous offer of 47-49% split in rent and their rash of fees that make any serious investor want to puke. I would jump at a 70-30% split but I doubt anyone will be that generous. Even MGM. My concern is the abundance of units that will be on the market in the 2009-2010 time frame. If you are having trouble with cash flow now, what will it be like when the Cosmo and CityCenter come on line? Will the customer base grow that much in the next 2-3 years?

It's funny that you speak about the poor cash flows generated by the Sig. I am trying to stay there Mar. 16-20th but all I get is prices that equate to strip properties. If the market is wide open at the Sig, I would think they would be lowering their prices to help out the owners. If I could get a rate near the one I have at the Mirage, I'd be happy to stay at the Sig, however it's not even close. If they have priced me out of their market, it may be a wake up call to you. Someone in their marketing department needs to get in touch with the owners wishes and not what they would like the market to be. I'll guarantee you that it may be a lot harder to rent when the big two open on the strip. :slob:

[PeteK]

Vegasman: I'd be glad to share the condo rental progam with you. I'd like to get a look at the Sig's for comparasion purposes. The Grand Hyatt is the company the Cosmo has teamed with to rent the units.

justdefended: I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. Several possibilities: (going with the Grand Hyatt's offer is NOT one of them) Have an outside company manage the unit on a weekly/monthly rental schedule, rent it out myself (not very likely), team with a large company who "entertains" frequently in LV in an exclusive rental agreement. I really don't like the "nightly" aspects of the Hyatt's rental program, the agreement stinks, the fees are extremely high and the profit sharing split is less than 50% to the owners. In my years in this business, I've not seen a worse deal for the owner than what the Hyatt presented. My wife suggested that I get a mistress and hang out more in LV. Maybe? Beats the screwing I would get from the Grand Hyatt folks. :haha:

[VEGA$MAN]

Vegasman: I'd be glad to share the condo rental progam with you. I'd like to get a look at the Sig's for comparasion purposes. The Grand Hyatt is the company the Cosmo has teamed with to rent the units.

justdefended: I'm really not sure what I'm going to do. Several possibilities: (going with the Grand Hyatt's offer is NOT one of them) Have an outside company manage the unit on a weekly/monthly rental schedule, rent it out myself (not very likely), team with a large company who "entertains" frequently in LV in an exclusive rental agreement. I really don't like the "nightly" aspects of the Hyatt's rental program, the agreement stinks, the fees are extremely high and the profit sharing split is less than 50% to the owners. In my years in this business, I've not seen a worse deal for the owner than what the Hyatt presented. My wife suggested that I get a mistress and hang out more in LV. Maybe? Beats the screwing I would get from the Grand Hyatt folks. :haha:

I am actually wanting to come up with better examples as comps to use as leverage to get the Sig to re-evaluate their program. Sounds like the Cosmo's even worse! Anyone know what rental management company the Plaza Hotel in NYC uses? Now, that's a brand you better have your sh*t together on!

[Patrick]

Ok this needs to stop
Sorry This thread is getting way off-topic.

This thread is about Las Vegas Projects & Construction
Not Homeowners discussing about their rental programs & commissions

VEGA$MAN, PeteK, justdefended, gmcclenon, manabouttown, several people have been contacting me about this.

If you guys really want to talk about this stuff, feel free to please post your own thread like "Las Vegas high rise homeowners". Its a good place to talk on SSP but not on this thread. Ok? :)

[gmcclenon]

Ok this needs to stop
Sorry This thread is getting way off-topic.

This thread is about Las Vegas Projects & Construction
Not Homeowners discussing about their rental programs & commissions

VEGA$MAN, PeteK, justdefended, gmcclenon, manabouttown, several people have been contacting me about this.

If you guys really want to talk about this stuff, feel free to please post your own thread like "Las Vegas high rise homeowners". Its a good place to talk on SSP but not on this thread. Ok? :)

Great idea! Can we put it under "City Compilations"? Or should it go somewhere else?

[VEGA$MAN]

Ok this needs to stop
Sorry This thread is getting way off-topic.

This thread is about Las Vegas Projects & Construction
Not Homeowners discussing about their rental programs & commissions

VEGA$MAN, PeteK, justdefended, gmcclenon, manabouttown, several people have been contacting me about this.

If you guys really want to talk about this stuff, feel free to please post your own thread like "Las Vegas high rise homeowners". Its a good place to talk on SSP but not on this thread. Ok? :)

Yeah, alright, I understand, but investment value affects construction, so without any value to a development and people like us (investors in general) to make it happen, NO PROJECTS WOULD EXIST, not to mention this site! :tup:

Also - IS THERE SOME REASON WHY THERE ISN'T A SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS SITE TO ALLOW US TO FIND A BETTER SECTION TO POST SUCH COMMENTARY UNDER AS WELL AS MAKE IT USER FRIENDLY??? :hell:

[DracoCaifan]

Does someone have more updated photos!!! More photos please!!!

[philip]

I don't really mind people posting their opnions about real estate investment. I only look at posts that have pictures anyway. Sometimes I look at real estate posts, but only if it has an interesting heading.

[mdiederi]

Does someone have more updated photos!!! More photos please!!!
I've been out of town so don't have anything new, but here are some of the north side of Ancore that I took a month ago. Don't think I posted them here before.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/ENC5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Enc7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Enc10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Enc9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Enc1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Enc6.jpg

[Patrick]

Great idea! Can we put it under "City Compilations"? Or should it go somewhere else?

I suggest the "Mountian West" Fourm.
SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountian West

[mdiederi]

Also - IS THERE SOME REASON WHY THERE ISN'T A SEARCH FUNCTION ON THIS SITE TO ALLOW US TO FIND A BETTER SECTION TO POST SUCH COMMENTARY UNDER AS WELL AS MAKE IT USER FRIENDLY??? :hell:
I noticed this at the top of one of the index pages.
**Server Upgrade** - The forum is being transferred to a new server soon, and may be offline temporarily at some point.

So it looks like the administrators are finally starting the process of moving the forum to a new server and hopefully they'll get it up to the same speed that skyscrapercity.com did in their last upgrade, because ssc was able to reinstitute the search function and the pages load very fast now. Unfortunately, it seems a lot of Las Vegas posters left ssc while it was down during the month-long upgrade last fall.

[mdiederi]

Saturday, March 3, 2007

Owners sell aging Sahara casino in Vegas

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

LAS VEGAS -- Owners of the Sahara Hotel and Casino, a Rat Pack hangout and the setting of the original "Ocean's Eleven" film, have agreed to sell the aging property to an investor group.

Officials from Los Angeles-based SBE Entertainment Group LLC and San Mateo, Calif.-based Stockbridge Real Estate Funds said they've entered into a contract to purchase the Moroccan-themed casino and hotel from Gordon Gaming Corp. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

"The Sahara is one of the last remaining original properties on the Las Vegas Strip, and we are thrilled with the possibilities that it presents," SBE Entertainment CEO Sam Nazarian said in a statement late Friday.

The sale includes a 17.5-acre parcel on the north end of the Strip and the hotel-casino with 1,720 rooms. The Sahara is one of the oldest properties on the Strip. It lost its high-end clientele as upscale development on the Strip moved south.

Nazarian, who also operates a restaurant group, a nightclub operation, a hotel group, a real estate division and a Hollywood production company, did not comment on specific plans for the property.

SBE plans to manage the hotel and its food and beverage operations. The Navegante Group, owned by Nevada gaming executive Larry Woolf, will operate the casino under a lease arrangement.

Gordon Gaming has managed the Sahara since casino pioneer William Bennett bought the property in 1995 for $193 million. Bennett spent more than $100 million upgrading the resort before his death in 2003.
Will they implode it? I wonder if they also got the property across the street which I thought was bigger than 17 acres?

[mdiederi]

http://www.eshuen.com/images/02-20-07_allure_floor37_1024.jpg

Is that photo taken from the upper levels of Allure? Any news on the redesign of their second tower? A couple months ago the developer said they were going to make it "substantially taller" and add a hotel component.

[mdiederi]

Yeah, alright, I understand, but investment value affects construction, so without any value to a development and people like us (investors in general) to make it happen, NO PROJECTS WOULD EXIST, not to mention this site! :tup:
I don't mind the investment debates either, some good tidbits of info can be gleened from them, though they can be a little long-winded sometimes.

But to imply that condo flippers built the Las Vegas Strip is stretching it a little bit. Condo towers are a very new idea on the Strip. And, condo hotel rentals will never be more than just a drop in the bucket compared to the profits generated by hotel/casinos. Take a closer look at CityCenter. The biggest building there is a hotel, and it dwarfs the condo buildings, because that's where the real money is. Selling condo units there is just an experiment to see if they can offset the initial construction cost of the overall project, and it looks like they have successfully done that. But future profits after the condo units are sold will be minimal. Strip resort developers need to be careful not to allocate to much land to condos instead of hotels because condos are only a one-time profit to the developer whereas hotels provide continuous profits into the future. For instance, Echelon will almost be as big as CityCenter and so far they have no plans for condos, they're going with boutique hotels instead. Also, guests who stay in hotel rooms play higher limits at the tables in the casinos than residents do.

Oops, guess I got a little long-winded there too.

[VegasMatt]

Here’ another Vegas development forum I ran across, it’s not updated as often as this one, but it’s not bad.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=269861&page=29

They have a few renderings of Union Park I’ve never seen before.
I already put the link on my favorites list.

If anyone else know of any other Vegas building forums, please post them!

Thanks!

[marlab55]

Will they implode it? I wonder if they also got the property across the street which I thought was bigger than 17 acres?

According to yesterday's R-J article "The Bennett family is retaining the other two parcels in the current transaction" (the 25 acres across from the Allure and the 11 acres on paradise Road).

[Vegas Grows Up]

I took some pictures on 3/2/07 of the Core and North Strip. If you want to see the rest I left links at bottom, too may to repost all of them :)


One of the things I noticed was an elevator core in the hole at Cosmo.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1947/cosmoelevatoril8.jpg

The Mandarin Oriental

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6600/mandarinsx7.jpg

The Stardust

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7902/stardustrq3.jpg

Trump at floor 60....I like how the old Stardust Sign is on left :)

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/2209/trump60withstardustsignew2.jpg

On my blog I have VEER West Tower, Alladin, Palazzo, Encore, Sky etc etc.

Core Strip Pics http://lasvegashighriseblog.com/aaronauxier/2007/03/04/information-on-the-las-vegas-high-rise-boom/

North Strip Pics http://lasvegashighriseblog.com/aaronauxier/2007/03/04/pre-construction-condos-in-las-vegas/

[sky-of-webs]

Reply for Mdierera post above. Plus the land under the condo-hotel and condos is basically forever locked up and never to be redeveloped. That will probably hurt the properties in the not so distant future. The life span of a Vegas Strip prop is only about 20-25 years. Case in point the Jockey Club.

[Patrick]

Woah, check out Union Park. I love it.
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/2715/image9do7.jpg

http://i13.tinypic.com/2hprioh.jpg

[marlab55]

Is that photo taken from the upper levels of Allure? Any news on the redesign of their second tower? A couple months ago the developer said they were going to make it "substantially taller" and add a hotel component.

That photo was taken from the balcony of the west end unit (B4 stack) on the 37th floor Feb 20.

The Allure developer has not realeased any information on the revised plans for the 2nd tower. IMO it will be very difficult if not impossible for the developer to get the second tower off the ground now. I don't think it's possible for for anybody that doesn't have very deep pockets (ie casino corporation) to get a high-rise off the ground for at least the next 4 years or so due to rising construction costs and the current tight supply of building resources. Its also going to be very hard to compete with other high end offerings like Citycenter, Palazzo condos, Trump etc. IMHO.

[mdiederi]

Thanks for the updates marlab55.

Nice to see that core rising at Cosmo, looks like it's almost up to the top of the hole.

Bet there will be a lot of condos at Union Park ... that is if anything is ever built there.

Gaming Today is reporting that Carl Ichan is trying to sell the Strosphere.

GT is also saying that Boyd announced construction on Echelon will officially start in July.

[Patrick]

I REALLY hate to see Stardust go.

Trump, looking a little short and wide eh? CityCenter continueing to blow me away. Pallazo & Wynn going up fast. Sky, looks GREAT! Allure also looks nice.

Pics from SSC
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/8810/skyview3as2.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5129/one61mk8.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7509/quens8qw3.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/1423/south2al6.jpg

[mdiederi]

Just heard that the employee parking garage at Wynn, where I took those close-up photos of the north side of Encore, will be imploded Tuesday. It's only a few years old. You can see it in this photo I took yesterday.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Encore1212.jpg

[future29]

One of the things I noticed was an elevator core in the hole at Cosmo.

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/1947/cosmoelevatoril8.jpg


just goes to show that that douchebag manabouttown is just talking out of his ass when it comes to cosmo. he has no clue what is going on in vegas, he just likes to spew his pointless bullshit on this site.

anyways, nice pics of Union Park. I am afraid though that all the building will be lost next to the ugly block buildings of World Market Center. when driving on the freeway, Union Park is going to be barely visible behind those WMC buildings. the city should stop Phase 5,6,7 now before its too late!

[BruceH]

Will they implode it? I wonder if they also got the property across the street which I thought was bigger than 17 acres? The cleared land across the street and the land behind the Sahara are still up for sale. They were not part of the deal.

[BruceH]

That photo was taken from the balcony of the west end unit (B4 stack) on the 37th floor Feb 20.

The Allure developer has not realeased any information on the revised plans for the 2nd tower. IMO it will be very difficult if not impossible for the developer to get the second tower off the ground now. I don't think it's possible for for anybody that doesn't have very deep pockets (ie casino corporation) to get a high-rise off the ground for at least the next 4 years or so due to rising construction costs and the current tight supply of building resources. Its also going to be very hard to compete with other high end offerings like Citycenter, Palazzo condos, Trump etc. IMHO. Marlab55 is bang on with that analysis about Allure's second tower as we also think it will be difficult to move forward but we hope they can do it. Barrier to entry is very high now which means very limited supply of high rise condos in the prime Strip area.

[BruceH]

[QUOTE=ScottG;2654428]couple of updates:




I didn't see any foundation activity at hilton grand when I took these pictures last week, but I'm wondering about the activity at the northwest corner of the lot, maybe a staging area for future construction?
http://www.eshuen.com/images/02-20-07_allure_floor37_1024.jpg

From the Strat last week...
http://www.eshuen.com/images/02-20-07_strat_southatdusk_1024.jpg

Was in Sky last week, which has its first homeowner closing March 16, and saw the Hilton timeshare building a new garage in the rear of the property. That is probably the first step towards the start of Tower 3. The problem is the Hilton has very little land and I can't tell if they will continue the original X design or go with a Y pattern. The more of an X pattern the less of any pool area they have remaining so why would someone buy a timeshare in the X configuration? Will be one to watch.

[BruceH]

couple of updates:

panorma tower 3 now has 2 cranes up - tower 2 took theirs down

the ebony tower at city center (i forget the new names) now has 2 cranes up so does the mandarin tower

world market center has i think 4 cranes and it is already up a few floors!---very big!

grand chateau is about 60 percent to the top. that thing'll be larger than the paris hotel when complete......

i think there is ground work being down on the hilton grand vacation club tower 3-

palms place is goin a bit slow, but has the glass facade catching up....like the fantasy tower it will have unmatching and random changes along the towers facade. weird

trump is slow, but actually getting up there. its real tall now. i think they want to make the gold glass only 3 floors behind the top so that you cant see the 'ugly' steel beams....maybe to prepare for the filming of the show when they announce tower 2....when is this again?

lastly: the palazzo is just crazy- very large- wide and tall. amen

---oh and encore is alot narrower than tower 1, but since itll be taller- it should pull thru....



DONT YOU WISH I HAD PICTURES OF ALL THIS?!!!! April 8 is the public launch date for reservations of Trump's Tower 2 in Las Vegas and I believe is the same date for the Apprentice show about the new tower. Wish Palazzo would announce their new Palazzo Residences tower plans and prices.

[mttbox]

still no news on the Montreux?

[JonVegas]

"Woah, check out Union Park. I love it."

Patrick, other than the obvious ones (Alzheimer's, WMC) are any of those buildings based on actual designs that are proposed?

[LMich]

No, that is a conceptualization. If they were actual designs, they'd be more fleshed out. It's a massing model to show what could go there. Personally, I don't think whenever and however its developed that it will look like anything of that scale.

[mdiederi]

Also, the performing arts center is pretty close to what the final building will be shaped like and one of the tall ones in the back is probably pretty close to what the World Jewelry Center Tower will be shaped like, but not necessary look like. Yeah, mostly just massing.

Hey check it out, the "search" function is back in the menu at the top of the page.

[mdiederi]

New agenda sheet on Echelon. (http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsnetapps/agendaweb/Data/P0205590.htm)

7,400,000 square foot resort hotel/casino consisting of 5 up to 57 story towers and a total of 5,280 hotel rooms, the parking structures are approximately 3,100,000 square feet resulting in a total of approximately 10,500,000 square feet of project area. The prior plan also included approval for 1,000 resort condominiums, which are now omitted with these revisions.

Echelon Component.

This component includes a total of 3,537 hotel rooms within 3 towers. The Resort Tower is 650 feet high, the Shangri-La Tower is 442 feet high, and the Suite Tower is 542 feet high. This component anchors the entire site and is located on the north side of the site and consists of the elements required for a resort hotel. The Echelon podium is 110 feet high and will include 630,000 square feet of gaming areas, restaurant, and retail promenade, a 225,000 square foot, 4,000 seat performing arts center, a 65,000 square foot, 1,500 seat touring act theatre, and a 740,000 square foot convention center. Elevation plans depict a contemporary architectural design with the 3 high-rise towers constructed of steel and concrete columns and low reflective glass curtain wall systems. The low-rise and mid-rise buildings are designed to match and complement the design of the towers and finished with granite and marble accents with miscellaneous cast stone, metal, and glass accents. Two separate porte cocheres are provided along the proposed North Road to serve the Shangri-la and Suite Towers. A main porte cochere is depicted at the Las Vegas Boulevard South entry to the site serving the main portions of the resort and the Resort Tower. With this revision, the project now meets the height setback ratio for the Resort Tower from Las Vegas Boulevard South, but the need has arisen for a height setback ratio reduction for the low-rise and mid-rise structures on Echelon Resort Drive.

Morgan Component.

The Morgan Component consists of a total of 1,600 hotel rooms with kitchens. One thousand rooms are provided in the Mondrian Hotel, and 600 hotel rooms with kitchens in the Delano Hotel with both towers including associated recreational areas including spas, pools retail, and dining areas. This component is located on the southeastern portion of the site adjacent to Echelon Resort Drive and Desert Inn Road at heights of up to 474 feet and connected to the Echelon component by the low and mid-rise podium portions of the buildings. The towers are also located on a podium served by separate porte cocheres, with access from Echelon Resort Drive for both the Mondrian Hotel porte cochere, and the Delano Hotel porte cochere. According to the plans, the towers will consist of a glazed aluminum window/curtain wall system, and the podium will consist of an exterior insulating finish system with miscellaneous cast stone and metal accents, and include frameless glass and custom storefronts at entrances. A pedestrian realm is provided along the Las Vegas Boulevard South frontage, and wraps the corner of the site onto Echelon Resort Drive and continues onto those portions of Industrial Road where the resort has frontage with a detached sidewalk. The pedestrian realm areas include a detached sidewalk along Las Vegas Boulevard South, which includes extensive landscaping and several fountains/water features on Las Vegas Boulevard South.

Two fountains are located on Las Vegas Boulevard South, one at the main port-cochere and the second at the retail mall entrance on the northwest corner of Las Vegas Boulevard South and Echelon Resort Drive. Two additional fountains are provided at the entrance points to the porte-cochere adjacent to the 3 hotels on the north side of the site. The total area of the proposed water features are approximately 4,000 square feet where Title 30 allows for up to 26,000 square feet of water features in association with a resort hotel of this size. A 30% reduction in parking is requested which is justified by an analysis provided by a competent professional as required by code. The final determination from the Federal Aviation Administration for the approved height of the high-rise buildings was submitted with the application.

[Patrick]

^If you guys could post the new agenda's every now and then, that would really be great, I could update the long un-updated Las Vegas Diagrams.

[future29]

www.unionpark.com for a Media Kit, nice renderings there.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8881/echelonplaceef5.jpg
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8613/echelonplace2nk3.jpg

Verge - condos in downtown
http://www.commercialpropertynews.com/cpn/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003551748&imw=Y
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4166/render1fullan0.jpg

[BruceH]

The employee parking garage next to the new Wynn Encore tower under construction is now gone. At 2:30am this morning, the explosion was so loud it woke up everyone in the nearby mid-rise Metropolis. The garage came down very fast but what was really interesting was the smoke. A huge smoke cloud engulfed the area for hours. Nearby Desert Inn road was blocked for several hours and special equipment went up and down the road making lots of noise seeking any unexploded caps. Can't wait for the Stardust implosion which is next week from what I heard recently. If anyone has heard of the exact date, which I thought was Mar 12, let me know.

I think once the old garage debris is removed from Wynn, a new entrance to that area will be built that will lead to the third phrase of Wynn's development impacting the existing golf course.

[VegasMatt]

The Springs Preserve is currently building a new faculty, with several interesting buildings.

Their new web site is pretty nice website:

http://www.springspreserve.org/html/home.html


Here is some more info on the project:

http://sev.prnewswire.com/travel/20061101/LAW08701112006-1.html


Portions of the park will be open in June.


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4238/preservemapnx9.jpg


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7919/preserve3gl0.jpg


http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5052/preserve2vu7.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8920/preservecx8.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7770/imageportfoliodh8.jpg

[Vegas Grows Up]

The employee parking garage next to the new Wynn Encore tower under construction is now gone. At 2:30am this morning, the explosion was so loud it woke up everyone in the nearby mid-rise Metropolis. The garage came down very fast but what was really interesting was the smoke. A huge smoke cloud engulfed the area for hours. Nearby Desert Inn road was blocked for several hours and special equipment went up and down the road making lots of noise seeking any unexploded caps. Can't wait for the Stardust implosion which is next week from what I heard recently. If anyone has heard of the exact date, which I thought was Mar 12, let me know.

I think once the old garage debris is removed from Wynn, a new entrance to that area will be built that will lead to the third phrase of Wynn's development impacting the existing golf course.

A nice little warm up for The Stardust!

[Patrick]

Oh snap. Echelon.

[sky-of-webs]

Well it's March, about time for word on LVT, and the county meeting.

[mdiederi]

I didn't see it in any of this weeks agendas and they haven't posted the rest for this month (http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsnetapps/AgendaWeb/nofa.aspx) yet.

[mdiederi]

The Springs Preserve
Kind of reminds me of the County Government Building.

[mdiederi]

Looks like a stack of pancakes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/Stack.jpg

[shadowbat]

Looking at those Echolon Place plans, it seems like it will be a great project!
I'm starting to miss the stardust a little bit less now. ;)

[ScottG]

am i the only one UNDERwelmed with echelon?

i could be wrong, but city centers impact is making echelon look puny.....

Ive seen the fountainbleau casino plan and that seems more impressive.


i beleive im wrong tho so leave me alone :)

[future29]

i dont like the fact that theres a parking lot taking up half the strip frontage on Echelon. wasted space if u ask me. hopefully they have something planned for that spot when they are ready to develop the Westward Ho land.

i keep hearing about Fontainbleau but never seen a single picture. to use a term from the pc world, it just seems like "vaporware" to me. if you have/can post the renderings then please do!

[GeorgeLV]

i keep hearing about Fontainbleau but never seen a single picture. to use a term from the pc world, it just seems like "vaporware" to me. if you have/can post the renderings then please do!

Go further back in the thread. There is plenty of pictures of the construction activity going on there already.

[mdiederi]

Yeah, but the only rendering shown so far is the gray box in the LVT images. VTAT says they have a rendering but the developer won't let them show it yet. What are they waiting for?

[mdiederi]

Westgate Planet Hollywood Towers

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Planet%20Hollywood/PH1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Planet%20Hollywood/PH2.jpg

[mdiederi]

Cosmopolitan hole

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Cosmopolitan/Cosmo1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Cosmopolitan/Cosmo2.jpg

[philip]

^ Can this building go up any slower?

[DracoCaifan]

yeah!! this one is taking too long... what's happening here?

[cosmo2k8]

Hey folks,

CityCenter's website now has the The Residences at Mandarin Oriental, Las Vegas brochure for viewing and download.

http://www.citycenter.com/news_resources/brochures.aspx

All that's left now is The Harmon brochure. :yes:

Cheers,
Kevin

[MsuMix]

I'm an engineer on Cosmo and trust me it is going anything but slow. Steel erection begins April 2.. there will be 3 steel crews going simultaneously, not to mention we're going double shifts to finish the foundations. Don't forget it took a year to build the 80 foot slurry wall and excavate 12 million CY of dirt.

[DracoCaifan]

Thanks for the info MsuMix!! I would love to see cosmo above ground soon!!

[designer3d712]

So Stardust is gone now? I know it was 2am but did anyone watch it? Just curious..

[Downtown Joe]

So Stardust is gone now? I know it was 2am but did anyone watch it? Just curious..

The LVRJ has a video: http://www.reviewjournal.com/index.html

[mdiederi]

I'm an engineer on Cosmo and trust me it is going anything but slow. Steel erection begins April 2.. there will be 3 steel crews going simultaneously, not to mention we're going double shifts to finish the foundations. Don't forget it took a year to build the 80 foot slurry wall and excavate 12 million CY of dirt.
Cool! I was wondering if it was going to be a steel frame. Those go up pretty fast once they get started.

[mdiederi]

So Stardust is gone now? I know it was 2am but did anyone watch it? Just curious..
Watched it from the Palace Station parking garage. There were quite a few people up there at 2 in the morning. That side of the roof was already full so I had to go down one floor.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Echelon/sd1-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Echelon/sd2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Echelon/sd3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Echelon/sd4.jpg

Glad I didn't watch it from the Circus Circus garage, they got dumped on with dust.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Echelon/sd5.jpg

[djhannu]

www.unionpark.com for a Media Kit, nice renderings there.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8881/echelonplaceef5.jpg
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8613/echelonplace2nk3.jpg



Has anyone else noticed that the McDonalds on LV Blvd is shown in the wrong location on these plans? They're showing it where the Westward Ho's casino was.

What's the news on Newport Lofts? I heard they had problems while assembling the rooftop space frame.

[philip]

The LVRJ has a video: http://www.reviewjournal.com/index.html
Great video

[philip]

Have they released official renderings of the Echelon Place ? (not he rough renderings and floor plans.) They don't seem to have many buildings according to the floor plan, I wonder if the resort will look like a watered-down version of City Center.

[tumbleweed]

[QUOTE=djhannu;2686055]Has anyone else noticed that the McDonalds on LV Blvd is shown in the wrong location on these plans? They're showing it where the Westward Ho's casino was.

What's the news on Newport Lofts? I heard they had problems while assembling the rooftop space frame.[/QUOTE

I think they are building a new mcdonalds next to the slots of fun to have more contiguous strip frontage for future development.
mcdonalds isnt dumb enough to give that location up altogether...

[future29]

[QUOTE=djhannu;2686055]Has anyone else noticed that the McDonalds on LV Blvd is shown in the wrong location on these plans? They're showing it where the Westward Ho's casino was.

What's the news on Newport Lofts? I heard they had problems while assembling the rooftop space frame.[/QUOTE

I think they are building a new mcdonalds next to the slots of fun to have more contiguous strip frontage for future development.
mcdonalds isnt dumb enough to give that location up altogether...

Vegas T&T recreated a nice map on his site, as well as his speculation on whats going on with McD's.

http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/echelon_place.htm

[ScottG]

^^^ not true- the mcdonalds is shown in the right spot...

[future29]

^^^
look at his map. there are two spots on the map, the current and future sites. maybe you are looking at the wrong map?

[MsuMix]

Cool! I was wondering if it was going to be a steel frame. Those go up pretty fast once they get started.

The really cool thing about Cosmo is that both of the 52 story towers are concrete. The 5 level underground garage and 5 level podium are structural steel. So there will be a 6ft skymat well above grade to get the towers started. Its a very unique project for the Strip. Here is an arial/render of CC and some of Cosmo...

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5192/citycenter122106vn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2720/ccgi5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Hans Gruber]

Wow,
I have not been to Vegas for a year and the cosmo project is already flying. What's the completion date of cosmo and will construction be a 24-7 affair like the hotel casino projects?

I watched the Stardust implosion today. I can remember years ago walking from Treasure Island to the Stardust thinking that the strip would eventually stretch all the way to the Stardust. That was in 1998. How things fly in Vegas.

You guys are doing a great job with your Vegas post.

[philip]

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2720/ccgi5.jpg
Wow, City Center makes dwarf even the Monte Carlo, and Monte Carlo is huge.

I am really glad that Cosmopolitan has a architecture style similar to that of the city center, so they look like one integrated project, not two. For most of the ordinary people (not skyscraper geeks like us), they will most likely think that Cosmopolitan is PART OF the City Center because both projects look similar, and construction started at the same time.

That is a good thing. ;)

[gmcclenon]

On the County Planning Commission's calendar now for a March 21 hearing. Not sure how this process works but I don't see any new information in this detail:
http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsnetapps/agendaweb/Data/P0199112.htm

Wonder how much luck those lobbyists LVTI hired are having with the FAA on getting the 1888 foot height approved?

[drew11]

On the County Planning Commission's calendar now for a March 21 hearing. Not sure how this process works but I don't see any new information in this detail:
http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsnetapps/agendaweb/Data/P0199112.htm

Wonder how much luck those lobbyists LVTI hired are having with the FAA on getting the 1888 foot height approved?

that is old, the project went before in november and was approved Unanimously, one problem is that the permit to increase the hight will be reviewed on the 21nd. there is a very good chance it will be aproved, because there alot of people for this, keep your fingers crossed. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[ScottG]

There Is A Huge Red Letter ''p' Placed On Top Of The 'aladdin'

Looks Like They Are Officially About To Brand The Tower!!!!!!


Btw, The Front Facade Is Eerily Missing- All Dismantled. The North Half Is Looking Real Nice And Modern Like Times Square

[MsuMix]

Wow,
I have not been to Vegas for a year and the cosmo project is already flying. What's the completion date of cosmo and will construction be a 24-7 affair like the hotel casino projects?

Current completion date is 12-31-09 and I'm pretty sure CityCenter is set to open within a month of Cosmo. It's interesting the architecture is similar between CC and Cosmo because both projects have totally different design teams/architects that didn't coordinate as far as I know. Construction won't be a 24/7 affair and it rarely is... working OT- swing/grave/weekend shifts is extremely costly in labor.

[ScottG]

what came first the chicken or the egg? cosmos design or city center?

both had different initial renderings.......:\

[future29]

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2720/ccgi5.jpg
great shot here.

Seriously, Monte Carlo has got to go. so out of place here its not even funny. hopefully once City Center is built it will offset the temporary room loss MGM will have by demolishing the Monte Carlo, then they can expand city center by building a new casino and 2-3 more boutique hotels. im guessing more condos will be located in the back of the Monte lot, as was shown in the early designs.

also, any pics of the new Aladdin would be greatly appreciated.:tup:

and MsuMix, if you dont mind me asking, whats a skymat?

[lfc4life]

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2720/ccgi5.jpg
great shot here.

Seriously, Monte Carlo has got to go. so out of place here its not even funny. hopefully once City Center is built it will offset the temporary room loss MGM will have by demolishing the Monte Carlo, then they can expand city center by building a new casino and 2-3 more boutique hotels. im guessing more condos will be located in the back of the Monte lot, as was shown in the early designs.

also, any pics of the new Aladdin would be greatly appreciated.:tup:

and MsuMix, if you dont mind me asking, whats a skymat?

I think that drawing makes city center look bigger than it actually is or Monte Carlo smaller whichever suits. The Monte Carlo tower is 360ft tall and the main project city center tower is set to be 600ft although there looks to be more of a height difference there. The final outcome will be on a similiar scale to how Wynn compares to Treasure Island or Mirage at the moment, it is taller than the two but not considerably so that it looks out of place.

As for knocking Monte Carlo personally I can't see it, the place only opened in 1998 surely MGM wouldn't do that now would they???

[StatenIslander237]

The really cool thing about Cosmo is that both of the 52 story towers are concrete. The 5 level underground garage and 5 level podium are structural steel. So there will be a 6ft skymat well above grade to get the towers started. Its a very unique project for the Strip. Here is an arial/render of CC and some of Cosmo...


I'm gonna go ahead and ask, is this the first underground parking garage in vegas? because they seem to love six-story above-ground parking monoliths in that city.

[lfc4life]

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o102/rossie_photos/rock%20wax%20work/vegas/Picture201.jpg

That is a photo I took of the city center model last month in the Mirage with Monte Carlo not looking too small in comparison

[lfc4life]

I'm gonna go ahead and ask, is this the first underground parking garage in vegas? because they seem to love six-story above-ground parking monoliths in that city.


The first is going to be at the Palazzo unless I am wrong there

[VegasMatt]

The first is going to be at the Palazzo unless I am wrong there

The rather forgettable Noenopolis has underground parking.

[SpeedyFarrar]

The Fashion Show mall has underground parking also.

[mdiederi]

How big is Neonopolis's parking garge? Like most people, I've never been in it.

Several other resorts have valet and executive parking underground, but all of those ones are puny compared to Palazzo's or Cosmo's garages which have thousands of spaces.

[VegasMatt]

.....

[VegasMatt]

How big is Neonopolis's parking garge? Like most people, I've never been in it.

It goes three or four floors down. It used to be a great place to park when it was free. I think the parking fees put the nail in the coffin on that place.

[GeorgeLV]

Um, there are a several underground parking garages around Vegas. The Palazzo and Neonopolis are hardly the first. Even an ancient casino like the Riviera has underground parking for the valet.

[nsxdrift_89]

Actually, the first real widespread use of underground garages was at the International Hotel (The Hilton) and MGM Grand (now Bally's). However, the first six to seven story underground garage title belongs to both Palazzo and Cosmo (they should get the first slurry wall "title" as well).

[MsuMix]

http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2720/ccgi5.jpg
great shot here.

also, any pics of the new Aladdin would be greatly appreciated.:tup:

and MsuMix, if you dont mind me asking, whats a skymat?

I can get some Aladdin shots tomorrow.. a Skymat or Transmat is basically the footprint of a tower (Pelli Tower at CC has a 12' mat on grade) Cosmo towers will have their 6' mat poured suspended in the air on top of the existing steel framing supports.

Cosmo probably isn't the first underground garage in vegas however it is the deepest building on the strip, we've excavated 24 million CY of dirt resulting in 45 acres of usable space below street level ,not to mention the first slurry wall in the state of nevada.

I know design of CC and Cosmo has been ongoing since 2005 and CC's initial renderings look verry different from what we see now. Cosmo didn't change a whole lot, mainly the east tower got bigger and more square. Maybe I'll tell you guys some more cool stuff about Cosmo later haha

[Vegas Grows Up]

A shot of The Stardust in Rubble

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7018/monorail6ef4.jpg

[Vegas Grows Up]

I went by CityCenter site yesterday 3/14/07 and snapped these shots. Enjoy!

Pillars for the monorail well into place! They look about 50-100 feet high so the monorail will be up there. Notice Veer West Tower to right of pillars.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/961/monorail2ty3.jpg

A closeup of main resort casino. Notice the guy walking towards bottom. Does that column say 13? 13th floor? If so kind of cool pic I think showing history in the making. Glad I took it!

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/9133/monorail3kz7.jpg

A backside shot of the main casino resort. Looking from behind Monte Carlo and facing North.

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/4632/monorail4fc2.jpg

Wow...Vdara is going up to 3rd floor already!

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5926/monorail5xc2.jpg

[hotdog]

Nice pictures, but isn't that too low to be the 13th floor?
That's an oversized floor.

[BrianFey]

Yeah, they are moving fast, but they're not quiet up to the 13th floor yet. I think they are pouring 10 or 11 now.

[Vegas Grows Up]

I know but now I am curious. What does that 13 stand for? Or is it not a 13 at all but just looks like it?

[mdiederi]

They started clearing the Las Vegas Tower site, you know, the old Wet-n-Wild water park. Fontainebeau site in the background.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Las%20Vegas%20Tower/lvt2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Las%20Vegas%20Tower/LVT1.jpg

Looks like they're getting ready to assemble some construction offices too. They must be pretty confident about getting approval or why else would they be spending this money?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Las%20Vegas%20Tower/lvt3.jpg

[justdefended]

Thanks for the pictures Vegas Grows Up. CityCenter's progress is so amazing every time I see it. I can't believe it's being contructed so fast. And Vdara already on the third floor? Can't wait!!

[Vegas Grows Up]

Thanks for the pictures mdiederi. CityCenter's progress is so amazing every time I see it. I can't believe it's being contructed so fast. And Vdara already on the third floor? Can't wait!!

You mean thank you Vegas Grows Up :)