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Taurus702B
Apr 5, 2007, 12:01 AM
I like Vegas because of all these themed hotel/casino. It is completely original and I like that but it appears that now, the new constructions don't have this originality anymore. It's a race to the top with glassy building, I like them but that's not the reason why Vegas is fascinating me :(

Same here.

philip
Apr 5, 2007, 4:49 AM
I also then wonder, why did some classic hotels (Caesars, Flamingo) fare well as time went on, and others (Stardust, Sands) didn't, even though they had equally legendary pasts? If I had to choose, I would want Caesars, Flamingo (already Vegas landmarks), and Mirage (first megaresort = landmark) to be kept forever.
Caesars and Flamingo still fare well because they have attractions (talking statues and mini-zoo) that captivate the audience. Stardust doesn't have anything to pull the customers from the sidewalk. Mirage will continue to fare well for a a number of years for the same reason.

This is why attractions are so important in that in determines the shelf-life of a casino. I don't know what attraction is inside the City Center Casino, and that's what worries me. Without any unique attractions, it will just look like an office building in New York like the Time Warner Center. But maybe this is what the "younger generation" prefers; same thing as our generation (twenty-something years old) likes hotels themed to landmark.

beets281
Apr 5, 2007, 6:06 AM
Caesars Palace was built on a massive land plot and they had no idea that in 40 years that the industry would grow as much as it did. Caesars was able to adapt by expanding and adding new venues along with a complete remodel. I would imagine if the Sardust and Flamingo were constructed at each others location then we most likely would of seen the Flamingo fall last March.

VegasBound
Apr 5, 2007, 6:31 AM
Respectfully Deleted

TheOldMan
Apr 5, 2007, 7:54 PM
^^^^ Hey man welcome to SKyscraper page. just to let you know, this isn't the real estate classified section. if you have news on developments great. post them. but don't post want ads or for sale ads. Although your unit looks nice, posting it here in this forum is inappropriate. If you have any interesting news on large high-rise developments around town, we are all ears.

mttbox
Apr 5, 2007, 8:44 PM
I was talking to a guy who is going to purchase a high-rise condo in Vegas, he told me that there are already some Panorama towers unit that is foreclosure, foreclosure already!!?? Wow.

NYC2ATX
Apr 5, 2007, 9:38 PM
Caesars and Flamingo still fare well because they have attractions (talking statues and mini-zoo) that captivate the audience. Stardust doesn't have anything to pull the customers from the sidewalk. Mirage will continue to fare well for a a number of years for the same reason.

This is why attractions are so important in that in determines the shelf-life of a casino. I don't know what attraction is inside the City Center Casino, and that's what worries me. Without any unique attractions, it will just look like an office building in New York like the Time Warner Center. But maybe this is what the "younger generation" prefers; same thing as our generation (twenty-something years old) likes hotels themed to landmark.

Time Warner is the shit. :D

well... the City Center is not first-and-foremost an attraction, like most of the last 15 years' megaresorts. Its designed to be a sophisticated urban living environment before its anything else. I think it brings Las Vegas up to the true caliber of a city, which is why I like it.

while we're on that topic:
Echelon Place, on the other hand, i believe is trying to copy that style into a traditional resort type, which leads me to view its future as more questionable. If it pulls in any customers it will be for the Delano and Mondrian labels, and I think it might fare well if it plays up the miami/hollywood-esque chic that those two labels are known for. otherwise it will probably falter in the long run.

ScottG
Apr 5, 2007, 9:44 PM
I FOUND THE MILAM TOWER NEWS HERE:

http://www.ratevegas.com/blog/2007/04/milams_las_vega.html

mdiederi
Apr 5, 2007, 10:06 PM
Ah, Stern just posted on there and that's the first I heard of any mention of Lincoln Property Company's possible involvement with LVT. Wish Stern would post here more, even though he's very opinionated he has a lot of good inside-leads on developments.

Silas
Apr 6, 2007, 3:25 PM
Just my imagination, or have people stopped posting pics since the VegasTaT guy takes them all over to his site and gets lots of accolades?

mdiederi
Apr 6, 2007, 3:36 PM
He asked for permission to use my photos and I said sure, as long as he put my name next to it.

Sometimes it goes for a couple weeks when there isn't much new worth taking a picture of. But I did post a picture a couple days ago in the CityCenter construction thread of the first glass facade panels on the Pelli tower (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2744257&postcount=129).

Silas
Apr 6, 2007, 5:19 PM
cool - thanks.

ScottG
Apr 6, 2007, 8:13 PM
i think that glass is the first in vegas that is actually see-thru.

that pictures shows glare, but i swear you can actually see into the rooms. it has a grey tint, but is translusat...yea?

Silas
Apr 6, 2007, 10:53 PM
Scott,

If true, that would make for some interesting sight seeing.

mttbox
Apr 7, 2007, 12:41 AM
got this picture from our sales rep at trump lv
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/mttbox/trump/MARCH22-1.jpg

NYC2ATX
Apr 7, 2007, 1:00 AM
Is Trump ever going to be finished? It feels like its looked like that for months now. :(

justdefended
Apr 7, 2007, 1:09 AM
I love gooooooooold.

got this picture from our sales rep at trump lv
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s233/mttbox/trump/MARCH22-1.jpg

TheOldMan
Apr 7, 2007, 1:16 AM
Is Trump ever going to be finished? It feels like its looked like that for months now. :(

yeah, for some bizarre reason, this building looked the same for literally months but i saw today, there were more forms and re-bar extending higher. now it looks like its about 600 feet tall with only the top portion to finish. not sure what took so long but it seems like its finally ready to top out.

Silas
Apr 7, 2007, 3:46 AM
Trump looks like a fun scene, if you like your lobby to be surrounded by six stories of parking garage :slob:

Patrick
Apr 7, 2007, 6:44 AM
Trump Never did impress me. The Tower turned out shorter than expected, it also is much wider than the renderings show, and the top is taking FOREVER.

MrVegas
Apr 7, 2007, 7:22 AM
The recently cleared portion of the LV Tower site is being paved. I spoke with a construction worker who said they were making a parking lot for the trailers that are currently parked on the south side of the property next to the Fontainebleau. He said the trailers needed to be moved to make way for a new "resort hotel".

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8405/dsc00146kk8.jpg
Those panels at the bottom of the picture look like they belong to the Turnberry Towers project across the street.

mdiederi
Apr 7, 2007, 2:48 PM
Those panels at the bottom of the picture look like they belong to the Turnberry Towers project across the street.
I think you're right. Compare them to the panels in this picture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/t1-3.jpg

VegasMatt
Apr 7, 2007, 7:40 PM
Here are two new projects to keep a watch on:

http://www.manhattanwest.com/

http://www.weststrip.com/

Regarding the weststrip website...

Is there a chance my favorite project may not be dead?

New plans for the Voyager revealed! How I hope this thing be built! :)


http://weststrip.homestead.com/VEGAS_CITYVIEW__Philippe-yang__op_800x4892.jpg

VA_Gentleman
Apr 7, 2007, 8:33 PM
^Damn that is a huge project. From the look of their site it's quite a far way off from happening though. It's almost like another City Center project. I hope this one makes some progress.

Texas Tuff
Apr 7, 2007, 8:38 PM
I love the buildings in the front portion of the property in the rendering but not the towers in the back. They all look a little drab as opposed to the very unique deisgns of the towers in the foreground.

skyscraperfan23
Apr 7, 2007, 8:52 PM
Here are two new projects to keep a watch on:

http://www.manhattanwest.com/

http://www.weststrip.com/

Regarding the weststrip website...

Is there a chance my favorite project may not be dead?

New plans for the Voyeur revealed! How I hope this thing be built! :)


http://weststrip.homestead.com/VEGAS_CITYVIEW__Philippe-yang__op_800x4892.jpg

So Beautiful.

mdiederi
Apr 7, 2007, 9:18 PM
New plans for the Voyeur revealed!
Was that a Freudian slip? :D

It was actually called "Voyager" (http://www.voyager-ent.com/flash_index.asp).

Anyway, that West Strip thing is not a real project or even plans for a project, it's just a pie-in-the-sky dream being used to try and sell the land, demonstrating maximum entitlements.

PuyoPiyo
Apr 7, 2007, 11:00 PM
Voyager, my... that is so beautiful..

solstadwest
Apr 8, 2007, 3:56 AM
I know we have all heard this before, but... Why on earth is the Cosmo project taking so long! please see www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com . Here you can visually seee what is happening. What really has been accomplished in the past 6 weeks. To be sure, look at the photos of CC and compare

mdiederi
Apr 8, 2007, 4:03 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Hoover%20Dam%20Bypass/C-FHWA-003-612.jpg

The Colorado River Bridge has been delayed quite awhile since the collapse of the four 200 foot tall towers of the cableway crane system spanning the canyon. But some progress is being made while they wait for the new cable system to be installed. In this new photo from the official website you can see a zigzag going up the hill in the lower left. That will be the pedestrian access ramp. You'll be able to walk across the bridge and enjoy a spectacular view of the dam from 2,000 feet directly above the river.

Here's another cool arial of the bridge project.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Hoover%20Dam%20Bypass/C-FHWA-003-614.jpg

Silas
Apr 8, 2007, 4:40 AM
:cool: Solstadt, re: Cosmo:

I don't have any inside infor or anything - but my gut tells me that this Cosmo project is still somewhat in doubt. Citycenter is moving forward for sure because the pot at the end of the rainbow is cash flow city for MGM. Pot at the end of the rainbow right now for cosmo is a big ? ? ? as far as potential cancellations/sales of condos.

Could be they are slow rolling to wait out the market. Could be they will cancel sales and instead run it directly as a hotel. Probably they are waying their options. Would not be suprised to see garage finsished and then a halt on going vertical - but then again I know nothing about construction. (I have overwhelming respect for the dudes who walk those rails up high.)

Bottom line, the financing is totally different for these two projects - it will be interesting to see how things progress - or not. :cool:

nsxdrift_89
Apr 8, 2007, 7:54 AM
When did MGM need to excavate 6 million cubic feet of eart, in order to build their hotel? Cosmo is really a first of its kind project in this city and, from what I have seen, it has been moving along at a fairly normal place. At this rate, they should be getting steel for the parking garage, followed by the actual concrete for the resort, within the next six months (i.e.- skyward by june or july)

mdiederi
Apr 8, 2007, 8:12 AM
Yeah, there's another forumer here who works on the site, project manager or something like that, and he was saying it's moving at a normal pace for a hole that deep and that's the biggest slurry wall in the state. Also, the bottom part will be steel frame and the upper concrete, so I'm guessing that maybe they need the core to be up to a certain height before they start attaching steel to it. He also said that the tower cranes are scheduled to be erected this month, their bases have been in place for a few months already.

And just to be facetious, why is it taking so long to start The Harmon? All the other towers at PCC are well underway. Actually, it's been a couple weeks since I've been to that side of the site, and the pylons were already set, so they probably have started the foundation by now.

NYC2ATX
Apr 8, 2007, 3:37 PM
I have some quick questions..anyone please feel free to help me out.

While I am aware of the exterior changes to the new planet hollywood resort, and the changes in the lobby and casino, what are the planned changes to the heavily themed desert passage (AKA miracle mile shops)?

Also, i heard once about a renovation/expansion of Paris LV, on Vegas Today and Tomorrow. i cannot seem to locate that info again, and I am curious if any more info on this project is available. jazfingr might be able to help me with that.

-thanks

Vegas Grows Up
Apr 8, 2007, 7:12 PM
I went out and took some new pics of CityCenter recently. I also hinted at a couple number facts you can read here http://www.lasvegashighriseblog.com/aaronauxier/2007/04/06/condos-for-sale-at-mgm-city-center/

Part of the Monte Carlo getting torn down to make room as the monorail heads Southwest.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8404/makewayforthemonorailin1.jpg

Looking at monorail columns and Veer West Tower

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/2323/tractormonorailad0.jpg

A VEER crane

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5595/veerwestiu3.jpg

ScottG
Apr 8, 2007, 7:44 PM
that 'city view' project..the one with the huge rendering above of multiple towers IS NOT A REAL PROJECT. the owners of the site are trying to sell it so they are showing the potential of the site.

I spoke with a construction worker at city center, he said that they have 12 cranes onsite now,,,,,and they are about to have a total of 36 cranes! THIRTY SIX! where are they putting these extra 20 cranes- no one knows. but stay tuned to see.

he also mentioned that WYNN is planning on putting SEVEN towers on its golf course redevelopement.

last bit of news..i read in an article that the aladdin will OFFICIALLY be turned into planet hollywood as of april 17. that seems like then the signage atop the building would be done too.....speaking of, i thought of something interesting. Is the aladdin/planet hollywood tower now taller? think about it. the letters stick up above the top of the building, so did that added a couple feet to the 'official' height of the tower?

its funny that a tower could get taller after a few years after being built.

mdiederi
Apr 8, 2007, 8:04 PM
I heard it would be 20 tower cranes at the peak of construction, but that was about 9 months ago when they said that.

I drove by PCC this morning and the glass facade is already wrapping around the end of the west wing. So those definitely weren't test panels.

sky-of-webs
Apr 9, 2007, 1:39 AM
As mentioned above the financing is very different on the Cosmo compared to City center. MGM is most likely using cash as opposed to actual financing with loans and debt that starts acruing from the time the money is spent. But the real major difference is what MGM has to gain profit wise for each day the casino hotel is open, years ago it was figured at around a million dollars a day for a new large hotel casino project. A million $$ a day can pay for alot of construction overtime.


And I didn't find my own newspaper clippings for good written history, but heres my recolection of what the lasers from the Hilton and Rio looked like.
The Hilton had a single point that the lasers shone from. There is a small water pool and fountain in the front valet drive drop off area. Either from the fountain top or the canopy just over it the green lasers came out, sometimes it was one beam straight up and then the rest of the time it was three or four beams that shone west from about 25 feet off the deck at the hilton and stayed around 100 feet off the deck as they made the line to the mountains. One went over the intersection of Decatur and Charleston at about sixty feet and ended up going overhead and shining on the mountain at calico basin. The home owners there complained quite abit about the intrusion of vegas on their tranquill and unlit night sky. Another one went somewhere between the Stardust and D.I. road at the strip. I don't remember where the other one or two went. The beams were huge and very visible when you looked toward the source. Maybe 6' to 10' diameter.

The Rio had a dancing laser that would cycle between one beam shot north from the top of the tall tower then be one south down the I-15 then the south shooting one would dance around and look like four or five beams all ending on the little hill just off to the west of where the I-15 and the now St. Rose Pkwy connect. I recall the Rio ones as red but the article I found online suggests it was also green.

These attempts to draw visitors to each off strip hotel started at almost the same time, and I remember it being one step closer to the future depicted in Blade Runner where the advertizing has taken to the low skies and is loud and highly lit up. I personally loved the things, but obviously I was in with a small group. We got about six months worth of sky lights before they were canned.:hell:

http://www.laserist.org/laserist/showbasics_11.html


And the downfall.

http://www.FINDARTICLES.COM/P/ARTICLES/MI_M1370/IS_N4_V30/AI_18317967

Silas
Apr 9, 2007, 3:12 AM
article today about the Cosmo financing -- looks like it has come through.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/consumer/2007/apr/08/566629942.html

TheOldMan
Apr 9, 2007, 3:49 AM
is Fountainbleu officially under construction? from what ive seen , it seems like full speed ahead for this project. perhaps someone should start a thread in the "construction" section. i would do it myself, except im not sure if it is or not....

mdiederi
Apr 9, 2007, 3:55 AM
Took this shot today, you can see the Cosmo core is a couple levels above the top of the hole.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Cosmopolitan/cos.jpg

Patrick
Apr 9, 2007, 3:57 AM
Marriotts Grand, ok at first, now looking good!
http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/59/459/3/42/99/2138342990056845759nMvRQF_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2138342990056845759nMvRQF)

Nice Cluster with HGVC and Sky.
http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/64/64/1/15/66/2543115660030390842DZzsUD_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2543115660030390842DZzsUD)

They would look better as Twins, betcha didnt know Tower One was actually scaled down due to the 9/11 Attacks.
http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/53/753/2/81/88/2190281880056845759OHZNLR_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2190281880056845759OHZNLR)

Planet.
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/57/557/8/47/55/2508847550067088196wdRKdZ_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2508847550067088196wdRKdZ) http://thumb19.webshots.net/t/57/557/8/80/10/2853880100056845759ZBtXpX_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2853880100056845759ZBtXpX)

Havent Seen Platinum in a while! Looks good.
http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/57/757/5/16/56/2701516560098593622xqxspg_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2701516560098593622xqxspg)

Boca Raton also dissapeared, looks ok I guess.
http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/53/653/3/81/66/2557381660098593622jtMhEg_th.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2557381660098593622jtMhEg)

MrVegas
Apr 9, 2007, 4:13 AM
I know we have all heard this before, but... Why on earth is the Cosmo project taking so long!

Two cranes and a bunch of steel has been moved into the Cosmo hole during the past week. Things should start moving much faster now.
http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/3182/dsc00164wb0.jpg

mdiederi
Apr 9, 2007, 4:28 AM
That angle looks like you shot that from on top of the core! Cool! Can also see some more sections for the tower cranes too.

MrVegas
Apr 9, 2007, 5:29 AM
Is the aladdin/planet hollywood tower now taller? think about it. the letters stick up above the top of the building, so did that added a couple feet to the 'official' height of the tower?

There is a podium in the middle of the roof that rises several feet above the roof line. Although the letters are
above the roof line, they do not appear to be above the podium - so the official tower height should not be affected.
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/6162/dsc00169kg7.jpg

heyyoucharlie
Apr 9, 2007, 6:23 AM
When the owners of the Sahara sold a couple of months back, did they keep the empty lot on the s/w of Sahara and LV Blvd???

Will anything ever be built there???

:shrug:

LMich
Apr 9, 2007, 8:59 AM
What is the official site of the tower? I tried contacting the architects, once, but to no reply.

mdiederi
Apr 9, 2007, 4:22 PM
What is the official site of the tower? I tried contacting the architects, once, but to no reply.
Which tower?

mdiederi
Apr 9, 2007, 4:24 PM
When the owners of the Sahara sold a couple of months back, did they keep the empty lot on the s/w of Sahara and LV Blvd???
It was not part of the deal.

mdiederi
Apr 9, 2007, 4:30 PM
Progress on Foster's Harmon foundation (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2752888&postcount=133).

PolyArch
Apr 9, 2007, 8:22 PM
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/8795/flamingovegasys6.jpg

Hope some one from Harrah's is reading this. The Imperial Palace would be imploded to make way for this and even taller towers can be built on the back side and the design could continue on the current Harrah site. Just for serious fun. Although dated I didn't think the Flamingo was ready to get blown off the face of the strip. But please level the Barbary Coast for more pedestrian space and a new side entrance to the present Flamingo.

GO VEGAS GO

BrianFey
Apr 9, 2007, 8:58 PM
ScottG - That 7 towers at Wynn must be just speculation on somebody's part. Wynn has not even started any plans for that site. He is busy working on Encore's final details, and the new Wynn Diamond Tower at Wynn Macau, as well as his Macau Cotai strip project. According to LVT&T he has purchased more land around the golf course though, so I know he must plan on moving forward with that project at some point not too far away. Last I heard they will probably move forward in 2010 on that project so we have a while yet, and I doubt they will develop the whole thing at once. I assume it will happen in phases due to its huge size. Its double the size of MGM's PCC. I will be attending the Wynn annual shareholder meeting next month, and will report on my findings should any plans change, or develop.

justdefended
Apr 9, 2007, 9:13 PM
Here are a few new CityCenter construction photos:

First few floors of Vdara are up

http://api.ning.com/files/1InT89KHobtXvVU58c4IKvz1wUX1ztiLxSckQBbXYYA=

CityCenter Resort and Casino image taken from 1-15. Facade is being added quickly.

http://api.ning.com/files/1InT89KHobslMkSwUu50twSqadWCCQjv4-1o83T5Rds=

:cheers:

MrVegas
Apr 10, 2007, 5:22 AM
Here's an interesting article about the Cosmopolitan:

http://lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2007/04/09/news/news_update/doc461ae79039535199503173.txt

Silas
Apr 10, 2007, 6:10 PM
De-Theming the Luxor?

I think that an un-written truth is that 'Middle East' does not sell too well in Vegas right now. Coincidence that Aladdin went south just after 9/11 ? Now de-theming Luxor? It's sad but I think there is some truth to this. I like some new un-themed buildings (citycenter) but this is a slippery slope to blandness IMHO.


http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2007/04/09/news/iq_13540846.txt

"A fresh roster of bars and restaurants, including a nightclub complex, will be also be coming along, with the aim of making the resort more user-friendly. Mark Adams, who posts Stript news at www.VegasTodayandTomorrow.com, predicts other changes are coming to Luxor. "You don't have to have to have (three) gift shops inside selling Egyptian-themed merchandise," he said, adding that the Nile theme was coming off. "They're going to modernize (Luxor), clean it up, get rid of the ornate, Egyptian columns and make them clean columns. They're going to do what Planet Hollywood is doing with the Aladdin. They're even talking about taking the Sphinx out," Adams said. MGM Mirage has also sought approval from Clark County for a 520-foot-tall condominium tower at Luxor. "

VegasMatt
Apr 10, 2007, 9:39 PM
^^^^^

“They're going to do what Planet Hollywood is doing with the Aladdin. They're even talking about taking the Sphinx out”

Has Planet Hollywood Proved itself yet?
Nothing against the PH, but I think the old Aladdin had more troubles than its theme.
I find it a little odd to suggest following a model that hasn’t had a sustained successful run yet.

If they take the sphinx away – Please – No More Boxy Glass Buildings or Parking Structures.:yuck:

I’m curious to know what they have planned for the ultra themed second floor.

LMich
Apr 10, 2007, 10:15 PM
Yeah, the Aladdin hardly failed because of its theme. It's problems were much more real than that. That location had been struggling for years.

mdiederi
Apr 10, 2007, 10:26 PM
If they take the sphinx away – Please – No More Boxy Glass Buildings or Parking Structures.:yuck:
Too late, the Luxor is already all black glass and ThePlace is going to be yet another all gold glass tower right next to the front of Luxor. Personally i'd rather have glass than that phony EIFS stuff, at least glass is a real material.

mdiederi
Apr 11, 2007, 2:56 AM
Just a progress shot of Encore, from the north.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Encore/e3-2.jpg

ScottG
Apr 11, 2007, 3:52 AM
http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/cosmopolitan.htm


look there for the first interior renderings of cosmo.....im not too impressed. the ceiling is kinda weird, but overall its common- nothing to write home about...unfortunatly


the aladdin location has problems because of the theme. it was too gautty


ugly jewels everywhere- now that city center is across the street, im sure even the aladdin would have profitted. but now the planet hollywood will definitly get out of the hole thanks to city center.

justdefended
Apr 11, 2007, 5:08 AM
http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/cosmopolitan.htm


look there for the first interior renderings of cosmo.....im not too impressed. the ceiling is kinda weird, but overall its common- nothing to write home about...unfortunatly


the aladdin location has problems because of the theme. it was too gautty


ugly jewels everywhere- now that city center is across the street, im sure even the aladdin would have profitted. but now the planet hollywood will definitly get out of the hole thanks to city center.


It looks like...every other mall on earth? I'm hoping they went really plain for the initial renderings and plan on upping the high-end scale with the finishes.

MrVegas
Apr 11, 2007, 6:19 AM
Here is an interesting article about the World Jewelry Center:

http://www.globest.com/news/881_881/lasvegas/159623-1.html

NYC2ATX
Apr 11, 2007, 1:23 PM
But please level the Barbary Coast for more pedestrian space and a new side entrance to the present Flamingo.


Yay! Someone feels the same way as me about Barbary Coast....I say knock it down and put some kind of pedestrian plaza there. the last thing that space needs is another narrow, ridiculous development.

mttbox
Apr 11, 2007, 6:00 PM
Trump announced starting sales of the 2nd tower on Sunday, any one know how is the sales doing?

ScottG
Apr 11, 2007, 6:56 PM
check out trumplv.com for the rendering showing both towers
id post the image but the internet is running slow :(

heyyoucharlie
Apr 12, 2007, 5:49 AM
mdiederi... you have some of the best picks on SSP, what kind of camera do you use... (sorry if this has been asked before, but I'm somewhat new and didn't see this posted anywhere) Anyway, Thanks!!!

BruceH
Apr 12, 2007, 6:12 AM
Trump announced starting sales of the 2nd tower on Sunday, any one know how is the sales doing?
Sales are doing better than many expected. Overall, luxury hotel condos and residential condos along the Strip are getting more buyers now than two months ago. We sold many units in Trump Las Vegas Tower 1 (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/trump-las-vegas.html) and several in Tower 2. Tower 2 was allowed to be reserved starting a month ago to brokerages with strong past sales in Tower 1. Trump continues to be a strong brand.

mdiederi
Apr 12, 2007, 6:17 AM
I use a DSLR with a couple lenses up to 300mm.

heyyoucharlie
Apr 12, 2007, 6:23 AM
I use a DSLR with a couple lenses up to 300mm.

Thanks!!! Love your work/pics on here!!! :worship:

PuyoPiyo
Apr 12, 2007, 8:26 AM
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/8795/flamingovegasys6.jpg

Hope some one from Harrah's is reading this. The Imperial Palace would be imploded to make way for this and even taller towers can be built on the back side and the design could continue on the current Harrah site. Just for serious fun. Although dated I didn't think the Flamingo was ready to get blown off the face of the strip. But please level the Barbary Coast for more pedestrian space and a new side entrance to the present Flamingo.

GO VEGAS GO

Honestly, I don't think that building is pretty...

designer3d712
Apr 12, 2007, 1:17 PM
check out trumplv.com for the rendering showing both towers
id post the image but the internet is running slow :(

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f354/bully712/trump2.jpg

gmcclenon
Apr 12, 2007, 5:43 PM
Mark is spreading rumors (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/updates.htm) over at VT&T about MGM possibly buying the lot across from the Sahara. Only one reason to do that - to make its Circus Circus lot stretch all the way from Echelon to Sahara Blvd. Can anyone say PCC II?

http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/condomap.htm

Silas
Apr 12, 2007, 6:04 PM
This may be way too cynical - but it could be that this is MGM's strategy:

Lock up the parcel across from Sahara. Land bank it, and with the Circus-Circus as it is, ensure that the entire area is a lower end, 'nothing-to-see-there' part of the strip dominated by dark, empty condos and Circus-Circus. A couple of places like Fontainbleu (if ever built) would be isolated from the real action.

Why would they possibley consider doing this?

To endsure that the luxury migration to the North end of the strip never happens, and that the action all remains where it is -- namely around CityCenter/Harmon and in fact, where MGM dominates the turf.

Does MGM have this kind of vision?

gmcclenon
Apr 12, 2007, 6:22 PM
Wow that's cynical! You may be right but I don't think so. Here's why. You'd also have to be betting against Sam Nazarian (http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/2007/4/5/111042/3624/hotels/Philippe_Starck_Now_Belongs_to_Sam_Nazarian) and his new pal Philippe Stark that will be turning the Sahara into an uber-cool place, Glenn Schaeffer (http://www.hotelinteractive.com/index.asp?page_id=5000&article_id=4509) of Mandalay Bay fame and Turnberry (construction has started at Fontainebleau and funding is in place) and the Maxim (http://www.usatoday.com/travel/hotels/2006-06-05-maxim-casino_x.htm) and LVTI. And the Riv never getting sold and revamped. No, I think the North is next and I think MGM is blocking their competitors but not by landbanking but by building. Now they may take their time however....

philip
Apr 12, 2007, 7:08 PM
Trump Tower 2 seems to face a different direction than Trump 1. Look at the location of the pool

philip
Apr 12, 2007, 7:12 PM
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e307/bigphilip/Architecture/NorthEndStrip.jpg

Regarding VTNT's rumor:
I don't see how buying that land across from Sahara and combining it with Circus Circus can give MGM any strategic advantage in building a new resort when you have all these small hotels/casinos stuck in the middle and taking up half of the strip frontage. The day the North End of the Strip is to get the same level of activities which the south/central Strip now enjoys is at least 10-15 years away. The market and the environment/ servicescape is simply not there. The potential of expanding north is further detrimented by the fact that the area north of Sahara Ave is residential neighborhood with NIMBYs. So you won't get the same kind of synergy center strip has.

The only strategic advantage they can get from buying this land is NOT to develop it for the short-term as Silas suggested. And if you look at MGM Mirage's plans for the future (page 10: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/10/101502/presentations/011107Citigroup.pdf), they still have lots of vacant lands on the south end of the strip and at the back of Monte Carlo, NYNY where they "already" have development proposals for these area. And this is the place where MGM will focus on for the next 10 years.

The only thing MGM would do with that place across Sahara is to buy the land, let it sit empty for a few years, wait for the surrounding areas to develop. By the time that area gets more crowded and the land value is high that it will be a waste to let it sit empty, THEN MGM will develop it, just like the way they did it with the land CityCenter now sits on. However, even this scenario seems still very unlikely to happen given the fact that 1. Las Vegas Strip is no longer the gaming capital of the world, 2. Lots of opportunities and rapid expansion in Macau, 3. MGM wants to diversify into the non-gaming luxury hotel chains business with locations all around the world while partnering with Chinese and Abu Dhabi companies (contracts already signed), and 4. MGM's strong preference in developing large scale Master-planed community in Jean and Atlantic City.

In 15 years, MGM Mirage will become a much larger and a much different kind of corporation than it is today, the value proposition on that piece of land across Sahara pales in comparison to what MGM has in mind for its future. (expect that place to sit empty for another decade, whether MGM buys it or not.)

Silas
Apr 12, 2007, 7:53 PM
Good points Patrick.

Another cynical view is that this is just hype generated by Trump and his marketing buddies. Much like the '$50 million/acre' for the New Frontier came and went. All these deals just as Trump is marketing the second tower? Hmmmm....

With all these projects, Trump Towers are in the thick of things. Without these deals, they remain isolated. Their landscaping is a parking lot, within a parking lot.

But why would I be cynical about Las Vegas condo marketing? ;)

philip
Apr 12, 2007, 8:09 PM
Good points Patrick.
My name is Philip ;) . Unless you are refering to a post Patrick made earlier.

mdiederi
Apr 12, 2007, 8:35 PM
Actually, that RV park north of Circus Circus has always been earmarked by MGM as future development ever since they bought out MRG. Buying that big chunk of strip frontage on that empty lot (the only empty lot left that's up for sale) would make developing the RV park much more feasible. If somebody else buys that lot and develops it, it would make it much more difficult for MGM to ever develop the RV park.

Circus Circus has been successful and we'll certainly take a look at a redevelopment plan down the road, ... I think a sale of the Sahara gives us some encouragement for that end of the Strip. We like to see new money come into Las Vegas. It gives the market a continued vibrancy.


MGM/Mirage investor presentation
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/mgmmap.jpg

Silas
Apr 12, 2007, 8:47 PM
Sorry about that, Philip.

PolyArch
Apr 12, 2007, 9:40 PM
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/8795/flamingovegasys6.jpg

Reply to PuyO and anyone else that thinks the same way:

The above illustration was only a design exercise on how to update an existing drab, plain, dated building. It was only for fun. Ideally and I think we can all agree the best thing Harrahs can do is implode all their adjacent holdings and replace it with a brand new mega project but some how that seems unlikely. Harrahs would lose all Vegas revenue for a couple of years while MGM has many money making hotel/casinos open while they build their City Center Project.

Silas
Apr 12, 2007, 10:16 PM
Since I am busy not posting fun pictures but instead throwing out my mastermind plans for the casino operators, I'll comment on the Flamingo pics/Harrah's properties:

1) The pic/design of Flamingo looks atrocious.
2) Harrah's didn't spend $30 mil/acre to make Bill's a non-revenue plaza.
3) Harrah's will most likely re-develop their properties one at a time. First IP (for example) then later Flamingo, then later Bally's.

The most interesting part of Harrah's to me is not the existing properties but instead the vast amount of land behind their hotels, including the recently purchased land behind the Aladdin hotel. This did not come cheap, so they must have some plan for it.

One idea I have thought of is a vast office complex that would sit in those now empty acres behind the properties. The hotel/condo scene is getting saturated. That land would then not compete against existing Harrah's properties but would instead augment their revenue stream. My vision is for Harrah's to build large office buildings behind Bally's, Paris and Aladdin (they own all that vacant land). These office buildings would be leased by companies that want a high-profile location for their business. These business would serve the existing LV business community as well as the gaming/tourist businesses. (I don't really know exactly which companies would lease the buildings).

The parcels are already connected via monorail directly to the LV convention center and will (?) soon be connected to airport. The office workers would be a steady flow of customers for Paris/Bally'ys (new?), etc.

Anyway, it is an idea. Would it work?

gmcclenon
Apr 12, 2007, 10:25 PM
The north end has heated up very quickly. As Philip brought up - the strip is geographically bound on both ends: Las Vegas City limits to the north and the airport to the south. No towers allowed past Mandalay for several thousand feet along LV Blvd due to the runway approach. That leaves just a single 3.5-mile strip to EVER be developed. Everyone thought Wynn was nuts to put his place at the extreme north end and he proved them wrong. Now we'll have foot traffic going to Echelon. Then to Fontainebleau which I believe is going to be much more impressive than anyone realizes. Hence their stealth mode. Like mdiederi said - it would at least protect their RV Park investment.

Ok, it's just a rumor - I'll shut up now. I know this is semi-OT. Just trying to pump up the north strip. I really do think the Fontainebleau will come out of left field and blow people away.

mdiederi
Apr 12, 2007, 11:00 PM
Here's a fantasy proposal for a building on the Barbary Coast site designed by Daniel J. Chenin (student) that won a citation in the NEVADA AIA Design Awards 2004 Unbuilt Category.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/sc03017_01.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/sc03017_02.jpg

JonVegas
Apr 13, 2007, 3:53 AM
Has anyone else noticed the glass going up on City Center. It looks gorgeous.:)

BruceH
Apr 13, 2007, 4:57 AM
This may be way too cynical - but it could be that this is MGM's strategy:

Lock up the parcel across from Sahara. Land bank it, and with the Circus-Circus as it is, ensure that the entire area is a lower end, 'nothing-to-see-there' part of the strip dominated by dark, empty condos and Circus-Circus. A couple of places like Fontainbleu (if ever built) would be isolated from the real action.

Why would they possibley consider doing this?

To endsure that the luxury migration to the North end of the strip never happens, and that the action all remains where it is -- namely around CityCenter/Harmon and in fact, where MGM dominates the turf.

Does MGM have this kind of vision?

Why would you say if Fontainebleau (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/fontainebleau-resort.html) ever gets built when it's already under construction? Second, don't discount MGM Mirage's future direction for Circus Circus. They want North Strip to be strong too as not much to show there at the moment.

BruceH
Apr 13, 2007, 5:11 AM
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e307/bigphilip/Architecture/NorthEndStrip.jpg

Regarding VTNT's rumor:
I don't see how buying that land across from Sahara and combining it with Circus Circus can give MGM any strategic advantage in building a new resort when you have all these small hotels/casinos stuck in the middle and taking up half of the strip frontage. The day the North End of the Strip is to get the same level of activities which the south/central Strip now enjoys is at least 10-15 years away. The market and the environment/ servicescape is simply not there. The potential of expanding north is further detrimented by the fact that the area north of Sahara Ave is residential neighborhood with NIMBYs. So you won't get the same kind of synergy center strip has.

The only strategic advantage they can get from buying this land is NOT to develop it for the short-term as Silas suggested. And if you look at MGM Mirage's plans for the future (page 10: http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/10/101502/presentations/011107Citigroup.pdf), they still have lots of vacant lands on the south end of the strip and at the back of Monte Carlo, NYNY where they "already" have development proposals for these area. And this is the place where MGM will focus on for the next 10 years.

The only thing MGM would do with that place across Sahara is to buy the land, let it sit empty for a few years, wait for the surrounding areas to develop. By the time that area gets more crowded and the land value is high that it will be a waste to let it sit empty, THEN MGM will develop it, just like the way they did it with the land CityCenter now sits on. However, even this scenario seems still very unlikely to happen given the fact that 1. Las Vegas Strip is no longer the gaming capital of the world, 2. Lots of opportunities and rapid expansion in Macau, 3. MGM wants to diversify into the non-gaming luxury hotel chains business with locations all around the world while partnering with Chinese and Abu Dhabi companies (contracts already signed), and 4. MGM's strong preference in developing large scale Master-planed community in Jean and Atlantic City.

In 15 years, MGM Mirage will become a much larger and a much different kind of corporation than it is today, the value proposition on that piece of land across Sahara pales in comparison to what MGM has in mind for its future. (expect that place to sit empty for another decade, whether MGM buys it or not.)

Consider the possibility that Maxim doesn't get built, that MGM buys the Travelodge, ABC property, Maxim property and the empty Sahara lot. Then consider they integrate the design to include Sky (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/sky-las-vegas.html) and the Hilton Vacation Club into their master plan. If well thought out could be a great master plan. Sky has residents along with Turnberry Place (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/turnberry-place.html), Turnberry Towers and the future Palazzo Tower that will visit nearby restaurants and entertainment in addition to what's onsite. True also for Trump (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/trump-las-vegas.html) and Fontainebleau hotel condos. The number of condos now being purchased in that area is increasingly primary or high percent use secondary residents who want to live on the Strip and are tired of their high maintenance single family homes. 65% of the buyers contacting us now ask to see the high rise condos before seeing single family homes. The Strip is changing and MGM knows it - CityCenter is just one example.

jazfingr
Apr 13, 2007, 9:07 AM
:previous: Great points, Bruce :tup: I started to write a comeback, however you beat me to it. Maxim is probably a stale proposal and Fontainebleau is going to be sweet.


Regarding Aladdin, one of the biggest design flaws (besides the strip entrance, which is being fixed) is the distance one must walk from the parking garage to the casino. As illustrated below, taking the southern route through the mall (providing you get a good parking spot) is a .30 mile journey, before you hit casino carpet. Taking the northern route is .26 mile.

The issue is that they built the mall around the preforming arts center (which was saved when the blew up the original Aladdin). This seems like something for which there is no solution, except demolishing the performing arts center.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/214/457480268_0f735d5d30_o.jpg

Silas
Apr 13, 2007, 1:41 PM
No offense (seriously) but you guys are salesmen, so your views are not 100% clear. I think that the scenarios that you lay out are possible - but tainted by rose-colored glasses to some extent. There is some value in keeping in mind both the rosiest possibilities and the most cynical as well. Especially in today's market. I remain skeptical of all the north-strip hype as Trump tries to sell his new condo tower.

I'll stop this mostly-off-topic-I-guess stuff. Love the photos from everybody on the board. Thanks again.

BruceH
Apr 13, 2007, 2:29 PM
No offense (seriously) but you guys are salesmen, so your views are not 100% clear. I think that the scenarios that you lay out are possible - but tainted by rose-colored glasses to some extent. There is some value in keeping in mind both the rosiest possibilities and the most cynical as well. Especially in today's market. I remain skeptical of all the north-strip hype as Trump tries to sell his new condo tower.

I'll stop this mostly-off-topic-I-guess stuff. Love the photos from everybody on the board. Thanks again.

Understand your perspective Silas. While the Circus Circus scenario is reaching, the fact North Strip is undergoing massive change is not. You won't recognize it 5 years from now and those who understand that perspective will do well by owning a piece of it. Years ago, the Desert Inn was thought to be in a part of the Strip that would never happen.

bobmcelligott
Apr 13, 2007, 6:51 PM
I agree Bruce. With Trump, Wynn and soon to be Fontainebleu and Echelon Place coming online, the North strip will soon come into its own. That area had to develop sooner later. I don't think I'll regret buying at Trump. Any new news on Frontier?

mttbox
Apr 13, 2007, 9:05 PM
[QUOTE=Any new news on Frontier?[/QUOTE]

I would love to hear what they'll do with Frontier, I just hope Montreux project falls and something much better and more high-end gets built there, because what they'll put on that site effect the value of Trump directly.
by the way, any one know how is the Trump selling now?

ScottG
Apr 13, 2007, 9:14 PM
mr. vegasTAT whats teh deal on those fountainbleau renderings?????!!!!!!


i wonder why fountain is goin under the stealth mode. not even a ground breakin...whats teh deal?

btw, that picture above of the aladdin painted blue made me laugh i forgot our terrible that looked

BruceH
Apr 13, 2007, 9:19 PM
I agree Bruce. With Trump, Wynn and soon to be Fontainebleu and Echelon Place coming online, the North strip will soon come into its own. That area had to develop sooner later. I don't think I'll regret buying at Trump. Any new news on Frontier?
It's very stealth regarding the Frontier. I think Ruffin is clearly playing a high stakes poker game here and he has a great location for which to bet a winning outcome.

ScottG
Apr 13, 2007, 9:23 PM
bad news: imperial palace might stick around for a while - same will bills (barbary coast)

imperial palace is trying to unionize its culinery staff proving some perminent (for the near future) changes

here are some interesting zone requests....city center to get bigger and taller! (a bit)

Permits and Zoning: Wynn Las Vegas, Fontainebleau, and City Center
April 12, 2007
From the agenda of Clark County planners, we have some insight into future projects. Here goes:

City Center - Not much, just a slight increase in the height of the towers from 543 feet to 580 feet. The FAA signed off and MGM is stating that they need the space for stuff like elevators and if residents want to put stuff on the roof (I assume satellite dishes, etc...). Also, the retail component is being increased from 650,000 square feet to 666,870 square feet. One interesting note is that Bellagio's holding company, Bellagio LLC, is the applicant - surely they have new holding companies for City Center - I would assume at least one per development for legal and financial reasons.


Fontainebleau - Some details on the project, which is in review. The tower will be 735 feet high with 2,880 hotel rooms and 1,020 condos with kitchens. The tower sites on a low-rise podium with heights that vary from 81 feet (LVB side) to 175 feet on the convention center side on the back. Other than that, the details are few. They do have a batch plant on site at this time.


Big Elvis Gets Bigger at Bill's Gamblin Hall and Saloon

One of BC/Bill's prime assets - lounger Pete "Big Elvis" Vallee - is staying put. In addition to Big Elvis adding a Friday show, we received word today from Big Elvis' manager that Big E has signed a contract with Bill's that goes through 2008.

This also means that Harrah's has no plans to close or gut the place in the near future (probably).

BruceH
Apr 13, 2007, 9:24 PM
I would love to hear what they'll do with Frontier, I just hope Montreux project falls and something much better and more high-end gets built there, because what they'll put on that site effect the value of Trump directly.
by the way, any one know how is the Trump selling now?
Trump Las Vegas Tower (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/trump-las-vegas.html) 2 is selling and doing better than many thought would occur. Buyers are re-entering the market now as the phone is ringing a lot for Strip properties. Las Vegas Blvd is the only address they want or right against it.

mdiederi
Apr 13, 2007, 9:33 PM
Speculating on the MGM north Strip rumors, maybe they will take the money from the Primm sale and buy the land on the Sahara corner and develop their new hotel brand there with Mubadala. The Mubadala joint venture states that they want to build hotels in Vegas and Abu Dhabi first before building in other regions, and I think they would need land with strip frontage to launch that new brand properly. That corner is the last empty lot left that's up for sale and it connects to existing MGM property.

gmcclenon
Apr 13, 2007, 11:04 PM
And given that Mubadala (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-12-2007/0004564163&EDATE=) is a wholly owned subsidiary of the government of the UAE, MGM would have to come up with NO money in this partnership. And it's non-gaming. So the north strip would be the perfect place for MGM to put PCC II. One can always hope.

jazfingr
Apr 13, 2007, 11:55 PM
mr. vegasTAT whats the deal on those fountainbleau renderings?????!!!!!!

i wonder why fountain is goin under the stealth mode. not even a ground breakin...whats teh deal?

Remember, Palms Place groundbreaking was announced when they were already up to three floors :shrug:

The rendering I have of Fon-taine-bleau (come on folks...spell it right) look kind of ordinary to me. It's obviously a first rendering. Just take the shape from the LVTower renderings and put 'bleau' glass on it. The center segment of the tower will have long, divided balconies on all floors. The top of the podium is the pool deck with terraced suites rising on the east side which coincides with the agenda of Clark County planners which states 175'.

OK, OK, here's a crop from the rend. I enhanced it so you can see the balconies.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/251/458189400_11e2c3c3af_o.jpg
;)

ScottG
Apr 14, 2007, 12:18 AM
i spell fontaine bleaue different each time....ha


btw i have a question / long finding.... the mirage (which had a death by an elevator woker today - a man fell 5 floors down a shoot today doin maintance)

but anyway the mirage is either accidently designed with an elevator shaft or fire stairs after the final design.....on the back side of the right wing (when looking at the fornt) has some shaft going form bottom to top inturupting the design. im assuming this is a fire escape - its quite wide, but definitly an onomily in the design. NO OTHER y-shape (or x-shape) hotel has this. so, being that mirage was the first, did they forget to add these fire stares or elevators?

(you wouldnt beleive how hard it was to find a picture of this)

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3681/untitledcopyhc5.jpg