[philip]

Seriously: Isn't that a DUMB NAME to give a resort. Don't they know that 95% of people will spell it wrong and 99% of people will say it wrong? In these days of internet searches, simple spelling is important. I know the hotel comes from the name in Miami - but so what? At good old UCSB there was a dorm with the same name. Nobody ever said it right - let alone worried about how to spell it right.

I couldn't have said it better. It proves the point that Fontainebleau is overrated. Why, because nobody knows it is under-construction and nobody knows how to say its name right. If nobody even knows the project exists or don't care, then how is it going to be successful? Wynn was the most talked about project even before the ground was cleared.
Besides, the design is just ho-hum. It's just a building sitting on top of a shopping mall, what's so special about it?? :sly:

[mdiederi]

Just take the shape from the LVTower renderings and put 'bleau' glass on it.
It's kind of hard to tell what color the glass is in this facade sample, it's very reflective but a little transparent and has just a hint of blue.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Fontainebleau/Font8.jpg

[jazfingr]

Is that the condo part of the tower? Usually hotel rooms in Vegas don't have balconies. The version in the LVT renderings didn't show that detail.

It seems kind of weird to me that the condo section would be flanked on each side by hotel rooms. :shrug:

[Silas]

We've got to remember that the Fountainblue or whatever it is called (kind of kidding) is a Turnberry project. That means they are counting on condo sales for the project to pencil out. I am sure the top-level conversations are interesting these days. :yes:

About that reflective glass. They should watch out what they are reflecting on the north strip. It could like the Sahara from the right angle ?? :shrug:

[lfc4life]

I couldn't have said it better. It proves the point that Fontainebleau is overrated. Why, because nobody knows it is under-construction and nobody knows how to say its name right. If nobody even knows the project exists or don't care, then how is it going to be successful? Wynn was the most talked about project even before the ground was cleared.
Besides, the design is just ho-hum. It's just a building sitting on top of a shopping mall, what's so special about it?? :sly:

At least it is something and at last a proper hotel is being built on this site which has been derelict since July 1992.

I remember the first time I came to vegas in 1998 and being met with the boarded up El Rancho/Thunderbird :yuck: Give this one a chance and lets see what happens :tup:

[RazzMan]

Does anyone know if Trump Tower II sales is doing well since the Apprentice last Sunday? Did the show payoff? I would think people would bet on this project over any other project right now. They also said a price increase would take place after April 8th, wonder if that happened.....

[Vegas Grows Up]

I recently created a page (not very informative yet) for Fontainebleau Las Vegas (http://www.vegascondoscene.com/fontainebleau.html) and have decided to start my VIP interest list. The good news? People are requesting to be added so there is definitely a buzz about it.

I think people are becoming aware the North Strip is really coming alive. To me a project like this has a bigger effect on The North Strip then it would on Core Strip where things are already awesome.

As far as Trump 2 price increase I had a client considering reserving last week and she had to get money in by the next day or price was raising so I am almost certain that did take place.

[RazzMan]

Does anyone know why none of these major condo's can sell out their Penthouse units? It seems like Turnberry, Panorama, Sky, Cosmo, and Trump is having a hard time selling any of these large PH units over $3M.
You would think some famous people or corporations would buy these since the supply is only a handful. Once they are gone, that's it...but no one wants them.......

[ScottG]

dunt mak phun ov mai laq ov spelin!

[Vegas Grows Up]

Does anyone know why none of these major condo's can sell out their Penthouse units? It seems like Turnberry, Panorama, Sky, Cosmo, and Trump is having a hard time selling any of these large PH units over $3M.
You would think some famous people or corporations would buy these since the supply is only a handful. Once they are gone, that's it...but no one wants them.......


All the 3 story Sky Suites are sold out am I not correct?

Look at how quick the multi million dollar penthouses at the Mandarin Oriental at MGM CityCenter (http://www.vegascondoscene.com/mandarin-oriental.html) sold out.

It is normal for multi million dollar units in any city and even in fantastic market conditions to take years to sell. These sales are not as affected by a slower market due to fact most luxury buyers are less concerned with rates and market conditions.

I think Vegas is doing well on the higher end units, a matter of fact there were multiple news stories recently on this very fact and numbers to prove that our luxury market is fairing better then median home market.

[RazzMan]

All the 3 story Sky Suites are sold out am I not correct?

Look at how quick the multi million dollar penthouses at the Mandarin Oriental at MGM CityCenter (http://www.vegascondoscene.com/mandarin-oriental.html) sold out.

It is normal for multi million dollar units in any city and even in fantastic market conditions to take years to sell. These sales are not as affected by a slower market due to fact most luxury buyers are less concerned with rates and market conditions.

I think Vegas is doing well on the higher end units, a matter of fact there were multiple news stories recently on this very fact and numbers to prove that our luxury market is fairing better then median home market.





Aaron, I thought all the SKY units are still available, I saw them still on the websites for sale around $3M. Also the $5.7M PH at Turnberry still exists as well as Cosmo's. I think Trump has a couple left in both buildings....I would think these should do well. The Mandarin link you sent also shows all the high end PH's still out there....

[philip]

Well, some of these penthouse units are really overpriced. I mean, 6-10 million dollars for what essentially is a 3 bedroom apartment (example, Mandarin Oriental), even the super rich know that you can buy a castle in Vegas with all that money.

In addition, most condo owners are buying these units as vacation houses. Not only they may not use it most of the time during the year, they may not need more than 2 bedrooms or even a penthouse location. I think the people who are buying the multi-bedroom penthouses are people who will use it as primary residence, and there aren't many people that rich in Vegas.

And for the rich people that do live in Vegas, they may opt for a house or wait a while to fully assess the true value of these penthouses. This is a substantial investment even for the rich, they can't just casually throw a couple hundred-dollar bills like they do when they shop for cars and vacation homes. So it takes time.

[RazzMan]

Agree Philip.....but a 3 BR is still much nicer to have.....studios and one BR are tiny....cant party in those...The rich can really have fun in a 3 BR PH....Even a good write off for a corporation....not may units arounds, may 15 in total.....I bet they will sell after project completion when you can walk in them..

[philip]

I agree, RazzMan. And I think the penthouses that will sell more quickly after completion are the ones with a highly recognized name (Trump, Mandarin Oriental at CityCenter). You are not paying 10 million dollars just for the penthouse (the construction material certainly doesn't cost THAT much), you are also paying for the brand name. And hopefully, the ones with a more exclusive name is worth every penny.

[MsuMix]

I worked on Queensridge, Shaq bought the top penthouse in Tower 1, around $10M, however he gets 2 floors and almost 6k square feet. Heard Tom Hanks bought Panorama Tower 2 Penthouse.:shrug:

[jazfingr]

Since there seems to be interest in this among some members here, here is a place to discuss anything Vegas condo hotel related, i.e. all the management talk, fees, rentals, that aren't contruction related:

http://ownvegas.ning.com/

That was a good idea :tup:

what happened :shrug:

Looks like this is turning into a real estate forum again.

[justdefended]

That was a good idea :tup:

what happened :shrug:

Looks like this is turning into a real estate forum again.

Yes, anyone who wants to discuss Vegas real estate can do so here. There are already several condo owners and real estate agents on board for some good old fashioned discussion.

http://ownvegas.ning.com/

[Silas]

I've seen some interesting posts on the real estate business side of things and how that ties in with the construction. Other than that, nothing much lately posted.

VegasTAT dude's opinion does not count, as he is only trolling for photos to put on his 'labor of love' (with donations accepted).

[bobmcelligott]

Silas

You're very confused. Pay attention to the posts and you may indeed learn something. Oh, and stop standing so close to the microwave

[RazzMan]

agree w/ Bob........SILAS does not get it....and maybe it's because you don't own a highrise and understand the power of Brand selling and how real estate actually works and appreciates. 5 years from now you will look back at the North Strip and say I remember when $1200 Sq/ ft sounded expensive.......and now its, well....Yikes!!

[Silas]

I admit to being confused, so no biggie.

Here is a story about cover up of murder at Panorama.

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=6374975&nav=15MV

Not sure if murder cover-up trumps branding or not. Pretty sure that Panorama is not in best neighborhood and not too sure about some of north strip. But that is just me.

[VegasBound]

agree w/ Bob........SILAS does not get it....and maybe it's because you don't own a highrise and understand the power of Brand selling and how real estate actually works and appreciates. 5 years from now you will look back at the North Strip and say I remember when $1200 Sq/ ft sounded expensive.......and now its, well....Yikes!!

As buyer I certainly hope you are right. But personally I doubt we will be seeing sky rocketing highrise prices in the next few years. If you told me now that we would have modest increases I would be satisfied with that.

What forces do you see coming into play to create such increases? When City Center is completed it will free up building resources and help moderate building costs in this town. Also I don't see interest rates being taken down in any major way in the next few years. Seems the fed will only act if a full blown recession is staring them square in the face. And not even then if inflation is still a threat.

G.

[RazzMan]

As buyer I certainly hope you are right. But personally I doubt we will be seeing sky rocketing highrise prices in the next few years. If you told me now that we would have modest increases I would be satisfied with that.

What forces do you see coming into play to create such increases? When City Center is completed it will free up building resources and help moderate building costs in this town. Also I don't see interest rates being taken down in any major way in the next few years. Seems the fed will only act if a full blown recession is staring them square in the face. And not even then if inflation is still a threat.

G.

bob...Where did you buy??? I think Trump, Cosmo and City Center will appreciate significantly after completion. I think Trump will most likely increase the most but not until Tower I opens its doors. Also Echelon needs to get underwayt and something needs to happen soon w/ the Frontier site. I dont think the high end units will have much of a problem in resale but people may get hurt if the own a blah location on a studio. Trump II sales are strong....stay w/ the large brands in this market. And the North location will rise but will take 3-5 yrs. I own Trump and not worried.....

[jazfingr]

I've seen some interesting posts on the real estate business side of things and how that ties in with the construction. Other than that, nothing much lately posted.

VegasTAT dude's opinion does not count, as he is only trolling for photos to put on his 'labor of love' (with donations accepted).


Silas Dude, I have been an active member of this thread for almost two years now. VegasTaT has earned respect from the many who post here and I have been invited to use the photos by the posters here (they enjoy seeing their credited photos on my site). The site has much traffic now (last week I had over 35,000 visitors). I pay about $1,400 a year for dedicated hosting of VegasTaT and most certainly accept donations (as do many other privately owned and run sites like "five hundy by midnight").

This thread has been free of flamers and one shouldn't flame a friend of the thread, perhapps you should open the original thread and read the whole thing. You'll find thousands of posts about the buildings (this is, after all, a skycraper forum), only recently has this thread turned toward real estate and I'm not the only one that's trying to keep it on its original path. Most of the real eatate conversation has been moved to http://ownvegas.ning.com/ Go check it out.

[Patrick]

What the hell? I thought I already said it, ugh.
This Thread is for Buildings not Real Estate thingamajigs
I'm sorry but thats it, please take the discussions elsewhere, go to that website suggested um, OwnVegas.com :)


VegasTAT dude's opinion does not count, as he is only trolling for photos to put on his 'labor of love' (with donations accepted).

Oh no you dint. *snap snap*

Jazfingr, has been controbuting to this thread for over two years, his website is just plain amazing and helpful. All you've done is brang this thread more off-topic. :/

[Silas]

I accept the end to the real estate investment postings.

I agree that this site and VegasTAT site are fantastic web sites. I will probably continue to view but will refrain from posting.

That other condo site is a good idea but pretty weak as mostly it is riddled with sales guys making things sound better than they are. But that is another story.

Good luck to everyone with their own agendas ......

[BruceH]

Aaron, I thought all the SKY units are still available, I saw them still on the websites for sale around $3M. Also the $5.7M PH at Turnberry still exists as well as Cosmo's. I think Trump has a couple left in both buildings....I would think these should do well. The Mandarin link you sent also shows all the high end PH's still out there....
Correction - Sky Las Vegas Sky Suites (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/sky-las-vegas.html) are the only three story penthouses as far as I know in Vegas and their price tag is a lot higher than $3M - try $5 and $6M and ALL are sold. Sorry to add to the real estate discussion guys but I had to correct misinformation.

[MrV]

Mdiederi's post on page 80 of this thread features an image from an MGM investor presentation that indicates which acres they own on and near the strip and which of those are undeveloped or underutilized.
In reaction to the rumour of MGM buying land near the Circus Circus RV Park, some posters said that MGM will first develop areas behind the Monte Carlo and New York New York and on the south part of the strip. Are these areas behind the mentioned hotels and other undeveloped acres in that area, for example behind the Excalibur and Luxor, really suitable for the development of a new resort, or would they be used to expand City Center (more condo's?) or one of the other existing properties?
As for the piece of land on the south strip, next to the Tropicana, it seems to me, (someone who's only been to Vegas once and knows basically nothing about casino's, hotels etc.;)) that it is a bit small to build a new (mega). Would that be the possible location for the ‘non-gaming hotel’ (which in my opinion would need way less space then a resort with casino) which MGM seems to be planning with Mubadala, are they waiting for a chance to expand that lot (have they considered buying the Tropicana when it was for sale), will they build a resort like the Cosmopolitan (deep in the ground and high in the air), or am I just wrong and will they do something completely different.

[jazfingr]

Thanks for the support, Patrick. Oh no you dint. *snap snap* :haha:

No issues, Bruce, you're the man :worship:

Don't refrain from posting Silas, just discuss development / construction / design etc.

Welcome to the thread, MrV.

The land next to the Trop 14.69 acres and is big enough for a large resort. Both IP and Cosmo are on 9 acre lots. The last project (roughly) proposed for that site was Harrods of London.

[lfc4life]

Mark fantastic site :tup: One thing I have noticed though is that you have downgraded Gold Coast to a 71,000 square foot casino from a 120,000 sq footer i think. Now I stayed a week in the gold coast back in february and I thought the casino was massive, much bigger than places I have stayed in the past such as Sahara, Flamingo and New York but yet you have all of them larger. Just wondering why the downgrade?? sorry to be nitpicking, maybe I completely off and just assumed Gold Coast to be a massive 100,000ft+ casino

BTW i can't see Harrods ever getting the light of day. I think they were about 15 years too late announcing that one! surely the day of the highly themed resort is dead??? And then along comes Planet Hollywood :koko:

I can see more lifeless condos going in that spot some day :hell: or hopefully the Trop will purchase it and expand south

[mdiederi]

Jazfingr,

Fontainblaeiou has finally come out of the closet and admitted in an article in the newspaper (http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2007/apr/16/041610941.html) that they "quietly" broke ground in February and are underconstruction.

Will they release the renderings now?

Also, James Packer has bought in as a partner (http://www.lvrj.com/business/7060387.html). Everybody knew he was shopping around to buy something on the Strip, so he's probably out of the market to buy any other strip property now.

[Superfish]

The Aladdin Hotel is now officially Planet Hollywood as of today as the news reported.

[bobmcelligott]

bob...Where did you buy??? I think Trump, Cosmo and City Center will appreciate significantly after completion. I think Trump will most likely increase the most but not until Tower I opens its doors. Also Echelon needs to get underwayt and something needs to happen soon w/ the Frontier site. I dont think the high end units will have much of a problem in resale but people may get hurt if the own a blah location on a studio. Trump II sales are strong....stay w/ the large brands in this market. And the North location will rise but will take 3-5 yrs. I own Trump and not worried.....

Hey Razzman

I bought a studio in Trump I. Also in MGM Signature. I always look several years ahead and I believe you're right about $1200/sg ft sounding like a bargain in the near future.

[ScottG]

i saw on the news that they evacuate the 23rd floor of panorama towers - funny....

i drove past the mcdonalds next to west ward ho (echelon's lot)

they had a billboard up showcasing 'a new restaurant coming soon' with a pretty nice rendering of the new mcdonolds- its will look nothing like any regular mikey d's but instead take a similiar route the CVS did next to new yor new york (make it modern - attractive (or at least eye catching))

[ScottG]

check out the new website for planet hollywood- i dont know what the PH web address it - but they took over the aladdin domain

http://aladdincasino.com

[VegasMatt]

More Details Revealed Here:


http://www.perlmandesigngroup.com/content/view/122/2/


Enjoy

[mdiederi]

In this Las Vegas Sands Corporation SEC filing (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/070417/lvs8-k.html) today (scroll down to "Additional Information") there are some details for the new condo tower. 970,000 saleable square feet at a rate of $1,500 - $2,000 per square foot. Gross proceeds are expected to range between $1,450,000,000 and $1,940,000,000 and it will cost $465,000,000 to build. Pre-selling of the Palazzo condominium tower is expected to commence in the third quarter of 2007.

[philip]

check out the new website for planet hollywood- i dont know what the PH web address it - but they took over the aladdin domain

http://aladdincasino.com
It looks like they are still designing the new website. Many links are not working yet, and there aren't many pictures either. But thanks for the link.

[clark]

Does this imply that the other, larger W is on hold?

http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2007/04/16/news/iq_13710748.txt

LaPour builds new Starwood brand hotel
BY TONY ILLIA

Developer Jeff LaPour is bringing a new Starwood, W-branded hotel to the Las Vegas Valley. The 14-story, 235-room "Aloft" will be located on five acres at the northeast corner of Paradise and Flamingo roads.

LaPour recently acquired the land for $12.35 million, or $2.47 million per acre, from 5-Z, ZHZ and AZZ Properties. Las Vegas-based Burke & Associates starts preliminary site work this month on the $50 million hotel. The boutique facility is scheduled to debut in the second quarter of 2009.

Aloft is targeted toward a Generation-X crowd of business visitors, conventioneers and tourists. Las Vegas is one of the first markets nationwide to carry the new hotel line from White Plains, N.Y.-based Starwood Hotels & Resorts. It's conceived by the same team responsible for Starwood's W Hotels...

[justdefended]

Does this imply that the other, larger W is on hold?

http://www.lvbusinesspress.com/articles/2007/04/16/news/iq_13710748.txt

This one looks like it will be up faster than the current W Las Vegas project.

After that initial Globe St. report that Edge was selling the W Las Vegas land news has been silent on its progress. The latest official word from the company was that it may have to bring an additional partner on board for funding, but it wouldn't surprise me if the initial report came to fruition.

[kenratboy]

I have a question.

I live in Reno and an very interested in all the stuff that goes on in Vegas (I am not one of those Southern Nevada haters :P ). As it stands now, there are a lot of resorts that all more or less offer the same sort of experience (hotel room, gaming, good food, clubs, shopping) - as I can tell by this massive thread, there are a lot of projects being built or that will be soon.

What direction are these new projects taking and what new stuff will be offered to set these properties apart? I would think at a certain point, if you had 100 resorts with all the same stuff, it would be more and more difficult to set yourself apart.

It seems from what I have seen, bigger and better shopping facilities, mega-clubs, and 'resort' amenities (day spas and such) seem to be a focus, but there has to be more to it - or there are untapped markets that they will start catering to.

At least for the lack of progress in Reno, you guys are ON FIRE :whip:

Thanks!

[LMich]

Actually, most of this current boom is residential, or has a significant residential component. This is a very different boom than the hotel resort boom of the 90's.

[MrVegas]

In this Las Vegas Sands Corporation SEC filing (http://biz.yahoo.com/e/070417/lvs8-k.html) today (scroll down to "Additional Information") there are some details for the new condo tower. 970,000 saleable square feet at a rate of $1,500 - $2,000 per square foot. Gross proceeds are expected to range between $1,450,000,000 and $1,940,000,000 and it will cost $465,000,000 to build.

Those condo units are going to be HUGE. With only 300 units and 970,000 square feet available for sale, that would average out to 3,233 square feet per unit. At a cost of $1,500 - $2,000 per square foot, each unit would cost between $4.8 million and $6.5 million - penthouse prices.

If LV Sands actually sells out those units and grosses $1.9 billion, their net profit after $465 million in construction costs would be about $1.5 billion - almost enough to pay for the cost of building the entire Palazzo resort. :banana:

[RazzMan]

Those condo units are going to be HUGE. With only 300 units and 970,000 square feet available for sale, that would average out to 3,233 square feet per unit. At a cost of $1,500 - $2,000 per square foot, each unit would cost between $4.8 million and $6.5 million - penthouse prices.

If LV Sands actually sells out those units and grosses $1.9 billion, their net profit after $465 million in construction costs would be about $1.5 billion - almost enough to pay for the cost of building the entire Palazzo resort. :banana:



Projects like Sands will now validate high prices at City Center and Trump.
In two years you will look back and think they were a bargain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember the rich get richer as the high end does well in good and bad economies.

[Superfish]

I read an article a while ago that did say the Palazzo condos would be THE most expensive on the strip, even reaching $10 million. Guess they must be targeting the wealthy Asian "Whale" (high roller) group.

[mttbox]

Guess they must be targeting the wealthy Asian "Whale" (high roller) group.

In Feb/2007, some guy from China-shanghai lost $50mil in one month at Venetian by playing Baccarat

[ScottG]

trump is topped out ( i beleive)

looks like they finished building that mechanical level which will be that white top part,,,,it doesnt look that tall at all- wynn seems taller

[chic]

hi I only wanted to know where can I find a resume of all las vegas projects ???because this threas its very long thanks for the help

[RazzMan]

trump is topped out ( i beleive)

looks like they finished building that mechanical level which will be that white top part,,,,it doesnt look that tall at all- wynn seems taller





Anyone have the latest pic of Trump? It seems the highend is picking up again. Someone said Trump II sales are strong and should remain strong w/ Palazzo and Sands pushing record prices later this year. With land and construction costs still on the rise, there is no reason to see any price drops going forward. These units are for the .0000001 % of the luxury buyers out there.

[mdiederi]

hi I only wanted to know where can I find a resume of all las vegas projects ???because this threas its very long thanks for the help
Try the very first page or try here (http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/construction_stats.htm)

Anyone have the latest pic of Trump?
Took this one just a couple days ago.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/t1-4.jpg

And this one.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/T.jpg

[GeorgeLV]

trump is topped out ( i beleive)

looks like they finished building that mechanical level which will be that white top part,,,,it doesnt look that tall at all- wynn seems taller

Almost all Las Vegas skyscrapers look shorter and squater than they really are because of how wide and massive they are (and the habit of doubling windows). Do you realize that the Palazzo hotel tower will have something like 3 times the square footage of the Library Tower in LA?

[JonVegas]

Almost all Las Vegas skyscrapers look shorter and squater than they really are because of how wide and massive they are (and the habit of doubling windows). Do you realize that the Palazzo hotel tower will have something like 3 times the square footage of the Library Tower in LA?

Totally agree.
It's the US Bank Tower now BTW.;)

[hotdog]

At 7.4 million sq. ft., won't the Palazzo be the largest
building in the western hemisphere, when measured by
square footage?

[mdiederi]

VegasTodayandTomorrow.com gets it right!

RUMOR IS TRUE!

MGM BUYS NORTH STRIP LAND (http://www.lvrj.com/news/7096416.html)

Map (http://media.lvrj.com/images/1729875.jpg)



MGM Mirage, which is currently building the massive $7 billion Project CityCenter on 66 acres on the south Strip, has assembled the acreage to construct a similar and potentially larger development on the Strip's northern end...

...MGM Mirage will spend $444 million to purchase a vacant 25.8-acre parcel from Gordon Gaming Corp., the current owners of the Sahara...

...In addition, MGM Mirage is spending $131 million to acquire a 7.6 acre parcel from Concord Wilshire Partners, a Southern California real estate developer that had announced plans last year to build a hotel-casino on the oddly shaped site in conjunction with the publishers of Maxim Magazine...

...[MGM Mirage President and Chief Financial Officer Jim] Murren didn't yet have a timetable for the north Strip development but said it was conceivable work could begin before CityCenter is completed...

...Concord Wilshire spent $90.25 million in 2005 to acquire four small parcels that made up the site acquired by MGM Mirage. The developers ran into opposition from the owners of Sky Las Vegas, a neighboring high-rise condominium development because the Maxim might have blocked views of Sky residents.
So the Maxim is dead.

[gmcclenon]

Murren said that unlike CityCenter, which MGM Mirage is financing, the company would take a different approach and seek partners to develop the north Strip location.

"We had so much interest in CityCenter from so many different resources that we believe this development allows us to bring in new financial and strategic partners," Murren said.

Hmmm, like these parnters?

Mubadala Development Company (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070412/lath036.html?.v=97), an investment and development vehicle established and wholly owned by the Government of the Emirate of Abu Dhabi, U.A.E.

They might have some money to fund the development of a high-end resort complex.

[jake]

I admit to being confused, so no biggie.

Here is a story about cover up of murder at Panorama.

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=6374975&nav=15MV

Not sure if murder cover-up trumps branding or not. Pretty sure that Panorama is not in best neighborhood and not too sure about some of north strip. But that is just me.


You are correct. Panorama is located in a light industrial area. Some of the areas that the new developement are pushing into and replacing are very ghetto. Take a look at my video blog about this subject. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXOmHknek8o) Vegas has alot of poverty, so there are some odd transitions taking place like the one with Allure.

However, I am not concerned about crime from Vegas locals. It's the residnets in the condos i am concerned about. I think there will be alot more of this type of stuff in the future. Not just murders, but people falling from balconies and people over dosing on drugs and alcohol. Condo owners should consider these things and the affect they could have on their property before buying in vegas.

--jake

[BruceH]

VegasTodayandTomorrow.com gets it right!

RUMOR IS TRUE!

MGM BUYS NORTH STRIP LAND (http://www.lvrj.com/news/7096416.html)

Map (http://media.lvrj.com/images/1729875.jpg)


Sothe Maxim is dead.
We're thrilled about it. That makes owners of Sky Las Vegas luxury condos (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/sky-las-vegas.html) golden and a very smart purchase. Some on this forum said our fighting Maxim's massive and not so pretty towers at the County Commissioner meeting was too much of NIMBY but the end result is a superior developer and neighbor Sky owners will want. MGM Mirage will build a nice project and North Strip is truly on fire now. Everything being built is in the Billions. Can't get much better than this for those who bought in Trump Las Vegas luxury hotel condos (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/trump-las-vegas.html), Palazzo luxury condos (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/palazzo-las-vegas.html) (coming) and Sky.

[Silas]

Bruce,

I must ask you to refrain from posting about the real estate angle on this board. If you continue to do so, I will feel justified in also doing so also. That will result in a long discussion about how things are not as rosy as you pretend. We know that Sky will be a dark, deserted area for a minimum of five years, possibly ten. Unless you consider living in the citycenter construction zone a good thing. But there I go again.

Let's get it straight. Is this a real estate discussion board or not? Or is it mostly for people to post pics so VegasTAT can monetize his labor of love?

[williasj]

Seems to me that Bruce's post was related to development in that in appears that sky owners are not opposed to all development around them, just the maxim. I think this board has been informative and friendly for the most part, and shoudl continue to remain that way. Just a thought.

Anyway, I live in summerlin center village and it appears that they are in the process of moving dirt around the site of summerlin center proper. Possibly just scrapering the surface, but still a begining. Does anyone have any info.

a link to the summerlin center webiste http://www.summerlin.com/villagesumcentre.html

[gmcclenon]

Speaking of dark and deserted, I'll get some fresh pics of the Fontainebleau construction site posted shortly. I read they are still looking at a Fall '08 completion date. Is that possible even with 24 hr construction?

[RazzMan]

Bruce,

I must ask you to refrain from posting about the real estate angle on this board. If you continue to do so, I will feel justified in also doing so also. That will result in a long discussion about how things are not as rosy as you pretend. We know that Sky will be a dark, deserted area for a minimum of five years, possibly ten. Unless you consider living in the citycenter construction zone a good thing. But there I go again.

Let's get it straight. Is this a real estate discussion board or not? Or is it mostly for people to post pics so VegasTAT can monetize his labor of love?


SILAS..............WHY SO NEGATIVE....? Let's here what you have to say...This forum has the right to discuss all highrises and opinions.
Bruce is just giving his opinions which I agree with...I sense you don't own much real estate! You need to have a 5 yr horizon and buy now. In 5 yrs, when everyone wants it, is not the time to buy as prices will be too high. BUY NOW AND ENJOY THE RIDE

[Bender13]

Wow this is incredable news. I can't believe how much MGM Mirage is building. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they purchase that Travelodge motel beween the Maxim site and Circus Circus to give them great Strip frontage South of Sky.

One thing I noticed from the article though is this
Murren said an enhanced Circus Circus would play an important role in the new development. The casino's customer base, he said, is expanding. Casinos that cater to the middle income customers, like the Stardust, have been eliminated from the market and others are expected to soon follow.

He said the 3,700-room casino, which generates about $80 million annually in cash flow, would receive a makeover.

"We intend to do with Circus Circus what we've done with the rest of our properties," Murren said.

GM Mirage operates 10 casinos on the Strip, more than any other gaming company.

"We're going to put some money into it and enhance and expand it over time," Murren said. "Circus Circus will be a gateway to our new development, similar to what Monte Carlo is to Project CityCenter."



It sounds like Circus Circus could stay. This surprised me but it's still very early in the development and things could change.

[GeorgeLV]

Here's another article echoing that they plan to "expand and enhance" the Circus Circus.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=6394600

[mttbox]

Bruce,

I must ask you to refrain from posting about the real estate angle on this board., come on, give people a break, i enjoy the post by Bruce!

[lfc4life]

I hope Circus stays the way it is, enhance it yes, but don't knock it down. MGM are not stupid. Circus pulls in the budget traveller by the truckload and without it and Excalibur that market would be lost for them. At the moment MGM seem to have every aspect of the market covered, high-end, mid-high end as well as the mid and lower ends of the market. perhaps they should buy the Western on Fremont, then they really can say they have everything covered full stop :haha:

Circus also seems to have cleaned itself up a bit compared to when I was there last in June 2005. It actually looked ok and on the clean side ;) when i visited there in February this year.

If MGM are serious about building on that vacant site then that is further fantastic news for the north strip. Personally I hope Sky is the last of the independent condos built directly on the Strip. There is plenty of place for independent condos on paradise, industrial, sahara etc. The strip should be left for the hotels/casinos. Condos on the strip should be part of hotel projects like city center or echelon etc. just my two cents :tup:

[BrianFey]

No Way CC will be left intact. The property is too old, too spread out, and worth to little to salvage. I think they might keep the Adventure Dome, and incorporate it into the new major project, but the main casino, hotel, etc will be leveled. They have way too much valuable property not to take it out. I can see a City Center 2 on its way at the north end of the strip. I think the new hotel may be lower end like CC, and might even carry the old name, but I'll be shocked it they keep much of the structure if any intact.

[jazfingr]

Thought you guys might like to see my latest graphic before I put it on VegasTaT. THE What's Been Built Since 2003 Aerial. When I finished it my eyes popped ...wow . If you see something I missed, let me know.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/207/465480884_8a48561ba7_o.jpg

[VegasMatt]

^^^^

Great Image!

"If you see something I missed, let me know. "

Although not buildings, the Hawaiian Market place and the Monorail where also built since 2003.

[kenratboy]

Maybe MGM is building itself its future - by so this vast amount of development, maybe they are betting on 'build it and they will come' more than demand that is already in place.

As an outsider (in that my money is not tied up in these projects) - it is cool for me!

[justdefended]

Thanks for the graphic! That is insane, I didn't realize so much development had occured in only several years. And it's only going to get even more massive in the next two years.

[ScottG]

the planet hollywood renovation is something to mention...hooters was more of a paint job (was maxim transformed to the westin after 2003?)

[BruceH]

Wow this is incredable news. I can't believe how much MGM Mirage is building. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before they purchase that Travelodge motel beween the Maxim site and Circus Circus to give them great Strip frontage South of Sky.

One thing I noticed from the article though is this


It sounds like Circus Circus could stay. This surprised me but it's still very early in the development and things could change.

Given MGM Mirage is a publically traded company they have to show a sound strategy for a money making property to Wall St. I would venture to say that Circus Circus will get imploded as it will be surrounded by Billions worth of new high end development that is setting the stage for North Strip. Their challenge is how to appeal to the middle market given everything else in North Strip is heading for ultra luxury status. Makes sense. Course they could take the Circus Circus clown and redo it in 24k gold - LOL.

[mdiederi]

'build it and they will come'
The demand for more development is already here. Back in 2000, when Clinton signed the bill to sell the land to Clark County for the new Ivanpah airport, it was projected that McCarran airport would reach its maximum capacity of 55,000,000 annual passengers by 2017, when the new airport would be ready. But now the projection has been revised to reach that maximum capacity by 2011 and the Ivanpah airport development might have to be accelerated.

"They" are definitely coming.

[heyyoucharlie]

Given MGM Mirage is a publically traded company they have to show a sound strategy for a money making property to Wall St. I would venture to say that Circus Circus will get imploded as it will be surrounded by Billions worth of new high end development that is setting the stage for North Strip. Their challenge is how to appeal to the middle market given everything else in North Strip is heading for ultra luxury status. Makes sense. Course they could take the Circus Circus clown and redo it in 24k gold - LOL.


Of coarse they would keep Circus Circus...It's a freakin "CASH COW"!!!

I don't see Circus Circus going anywhere for a long time!!!

[Superfish]

I am excited about the new MGM development. It counteracts the letdown many felt with Echelon. MGM can do things right. With CityCenter at South and this new project anchoring the north, the line of hotels will finally be complete.

Expect taller buildings in any case as heights generally increase the further north you go on LV Blvd.

[bobmcelligott]

I too want to hear what Bruce has to say.

[mdiederi]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/WMC.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Esca.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/jakes.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/IMGP1602.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/south.jpg

[ScottG]

i will say it - allure looks the best.....(i like the top)

[GeorgeLV]

No Way CC will be left intact. The property is too old, too spread out, and worth to little to salvage. I think they might keep the Adventure Dome, and incorporate it into the new major project, but the main casino, hotel, etc will be leveled. They have way too much valuable property not to take it out. I can see a City Center 2 on its way at the north end of the strip. I think the new hotel may be lower end like CC, and might even carry the old name, but I'll be shocked it they keep much of the structure if any intact.

The Adventure Dome is pretty lame as far as amusement parks go. I'd imagine most locals don't even bother with it consider to proximity of Vegas to real theme parks in SoCal. Perhaps our world's happiest mayor should give up his unlikely pursuit of a major league team sport and try to reel in an amusement park operator instead. (Also, when is someone going to come along and build another water park. I understand the economics that went into selling Wet'n'Wild, but why hasn't a replacement sprouted up off-Strip yet? It's a no-brainer with the summers around here.)

[BruceH]

Of coarse they would keep Circus Circus...It's a freakin "CASH COW"!!!

I don't see Circus Circus going anywhere for a long time!!!

Probably a short term cash cow. MGM Mirage can't allow Circus Circus to be surrounded by high end casino hotels and then keep a mediocre aging property beside them. Image is everything in a publically traded company and after CityCenter they can't afford to do a cheap solution for their second act if they want to keep Wall St happy. How would you feel to walk past Shangri-La to go into an old aging casino hotel? Will take more than just a cost of paint to fix it. Wouldn't surprise me to see MGM announce their other two partners in the North Strip Circus Circus redevelopment project by year-end and reveal their future design for it. Encore, Palazzo luxury condos and casino hotel (http://www.luxuryrealtygroup.com/palazzo-las-vegas.html), Trump, Sky, Fontainebleau and Echelon already serve as guidance for what's yet to come for North Strip. Exciting times!!

[mdiederi]

The Adventure Dome is pretty lame as far as amusement parks go. I'd imagine most locals don't even bother with it consider to proximity of Vegas to real theme parks in SoCal. Perhaps our world's happiest mayor should give up his unlikely pursuit of a major league team sport and try to reel in an amusement park operator instead. (Also, when is someone going to come along and build another water park. I understand the economics that went into selling Wet'n'Wild, but why hasn't a replacement sprouted up off-Strip yet? It's a no-brainer with the summers around here.)
My prediction is that in the future new mid-level family oriented resorts will be built on the south Strip.

Vegas WET to acquire over 200 acres on the South Strip (http://www.prweb.com/releases/2007/3/prweb511240.htm)

Vegas WET (http://www.lasvegaswet.com/)

[VegasBound]

http://repster.com/tmp/lvt.jpg

[Taurus702B]

http://repster.com/tmp/lvt.jpg

Now that looks ugly.

[Patrick]

Amen.

[VegasBound]

Now that looks ugly.

That's what they said about the Eiffel Tower after it was first built.

Actually I was 100% against the possibility of living a block away from that beheamoth but I have actually come around to being in favor of it. Part of my thinking is that if there is destined to be 4000+ rooms on that parcel anyways it might as well be something that makes a statement. Tallest building in the Western Hemisphere! The engineering and design of this building is actually very impressive. A little too space age looking for the neighborhood I admit, but I think it will look much better in reality than the renderings indicate.

[mdiederi]

I wouldn't be surprised if MGM and that Mubadala company from Abu Dhabi don't build something really tall on their new land. Why not? It's in the same zone as LVT and the Strat, and those Emirate development companies seem to be obsessed with supertalls.

[mdiederi]

A special planning commission meeting (http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/dsnetapps/agendaweb/Data/042407bccweb.htm) has been added for next week and the only item on the agenda is Fontainebleau (they spelled it Fontainableau in the title and Fountaebleau in the text, LOL). Basically, they are just going over the Development Agreement, but they mention that the resort will have a total of 7,046,928 square feet of developed floor space. I don't think that figure was included in the previous data. That's more than double the 3,100,000 sq. ft. we originally thought it was going to be.

[MrVegas]

Planet Hollywood Towers by Westgate:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8600/dsc00177gj2.jpg


Cosmo parking garage:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3776/dsc00183iv6.jpg


You can see Cosmo's first tower crane going up next to the elevator core.
http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/154/dsc00191jn7.jpg

[mdiederi]

Ah, the tower crane is going up at Cosmo. Good!

Planet Hollywood Towers has progressed a lot since the last time I looked.

Thanks.

[heyyoucharlie]

http://repster.com/tmp/lvt.jpg


I'm all for a supertall, but do we really want one that looks like that??? :shrug:

Personally :yuck: ...

You should add this to the (1888ft LVT thread in Highrise Construction), that way they would stop the city vs city debate over there!!!

[Superfish]

Two shots of Trump i took today, one showing a closeup of activity of the mechanical levels at the top.
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/604/tr40vd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/728/tr41ug6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[MrV]

Is it a possibility that MGM first develops the newly bought site and the Circus Circus motel and trailer park (78 acres should be more then enough) and then renovates Circus Circus into a casino that still caters to the mid-end gamblers and tourists, possibly turn it into a non-themed hotel (or less strongly themed), in order to make it look more in place with the rest of the buildings instead of the somewhat cheesy circus theme? Or should mid-end casino's on the strip considered to be something of the past and will they turn it into (another) high-end place?

Now that properties on the north-end of the strip are getting more and more valuable, it amazes me that there aren't any noteworthy hotels/buildings/developments (correct me if I'm wrong) between Wynn and The Riviera. Wouldn't the owners of these properties be much better of (financially) if they sold there (compared with other strip properties) small businesses and pieces of land to a developer?

[mdiederi]

Now that properties on the north-end of the strip are getting more and more valuable, it amazes me that there aren't any noteworthy hotels/buildings/developments (correct me if I'm wrong) between Wynn and The Riviera. Wouldn't the owners of these properties be much better of (financially) if they sold there (compared with other strip properties) small businesses and pieces of land to a developer?
Yeah, that's where the Conrad-Majestic-Waldorf Astoria (http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/majestic.htm) thing is supposed to go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Majestic.jpg

The Riviera and the Frontier are the only two significant properties left that are up for sale on the Strip.

[MrV]

Yeah, that's where the Conrad-Majestic-Waldorf Astoria (http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/majestic.htm) thing is supposed to go.

Thanks!
According to Vegas today and Tomorrow, construction is set to begin this month. Is that still going to happen (or has it already happened?), or has the project been put on hold again?

[lfc4life]

The Conrad was announced more than 3 years and nothing so far has happened. I am interested though to see that Mark over at VT&T has groundbreaking scheduled for April 2007, so maybe??

It looks a beautiful project and would complement the Wynn so well imo but the further down the line we go the less and less likely it seems this wonderful project will happen :(

[BrianFey]

Yeah, that's where the Conrad-Majestic-Waldorf Astoria (http://vegastodayandtomorrow.com/majestic.htm) thing is supposed to go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Majestic.jpg

The Riviera and the Frontier are the only two significant properties left that are up for sale on the Strip.

MR.V

I agree with you. W-A is slated to go here, IF it happens. But I was just looking at the satallite image on Google Maps yesterday, and you are right. I was thinking that exact thing. The W-A project, even if it happens, only takes a very small part of that land, and its way north of Encore. There is still a fantastic property full of crap, just north of Encore that now has a few small buildings, etc. That would be perfect, being across from Echelon Place.

[drobar]

Let's not fool ourselves people. Circus Circus is a joke. If MGM is serious about developing that portion of town, they should erect resorts/buildings that reflect the emerging environment, i.e Sky, Trump, ect... There is no aesthetic/cultural value whatsoever to the Circus Circus in it's present condition. Just the whole concept of "Circus Circus" is atrocious. If they are going to keep Circus Circus, they really need to plan something visually appealing and less garish. Hmmm.....maybe "Cirque Cirque"? :jester:

I hope Circus stays the way it is, enhance it yes, but don't knock it down. MGM are not stupid. Circus pulls in the budget traveller by the truckload and without it and Excalibur that market would be lost for them. At the moment MGM seem to have every aspect of the market covered, high-end, mid-high end as well as the mid and lower ends of the market. perhaps they should buy the Western on Fremont, then they really can say they have everything covered full stop :haha:

Circus also seems to have cleaned itself up a bit compared to when I was there last in June 2005. It actually looked ok and on the clean side ;) when i visited there in February this year.

If MGM are serious about building on that vacant site then that is further fantastic news for the north strip. Personally I hope Sky is the last of the independent condos built directly on the Strip. There is plenty of place for independent condos on paradise, industrial, sahara etc. The strip should be left for the hotels/casinos. Condos on the strip should be part of hotel projects like city center or echelon etc. just my two cents :tup:

[lfc4life]

drobar; Circus is a total money maker and has been since its inception. There are thousands of people who would disagree with your statement; tacky CC may be, but it still brings in the money by the bucketload. get rid of CC or radically alter it beyond recognition and you lose a huge chuck of the market.

Vegas can only absorb so many high-calibre five star resorts imo, eventually there will be too many. there is no way Vegas can fill 140,000 five stars bedrooms every night assuming all the upcoming hotels are five stars. There needs to budget hotels on the Strip to complement the five stars mega resorts.

[mdiederi]

They still have another Circus Circus in Reno where all the penny slot players can go.

[justdefended]

drobar; Circus is a total money maker and has been since its inception. There are thousands of people who would disagree with your statement; tacky CC may be, but it still brings in the money by the bucketload. get rid of CC or radically alter it beyond recognition and you lose a huge chuck of the market.

Vegas can only absorb so many high-calibre five star resorts imo, eventually there will be too many. there is no way Vegas can fill 140,000 five stars bedrooms every night assuming all the upcoming hotels are five stars. There needs to budget hotels on the Strip to complement the five stars mega resorts.

It's true. As old as Circus Circus is it generates steady cash flow from patrons that would play elsewhere if it weren't around. They just need to update the property to current standards. Just because it caters to a lower income doesn't mean it has to look that way. South Point is a great example. Nice looking hotel but local prices and wagering on everything.

Althought at the same time, I wouldn't mind watching that neon clown get blown up.