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Silas
Sep 14, 2007, 5:19 PM
Anybody check out Diablo's Cantina in front of the Monte Carlo? Doesn't that open today or tomorrow?

Most people have said it doesn't fit. I personally think it looks great and I love the open-air, right-on-the-strip scene. I look forward to more of these venues. Would be curious to hear from anyone who has actually checked it out.

laguna
Sep 14, 2007, 5:29 PM
thanks for the info. I cant figure out how they can have a different formula for the split from one building to the other. It would seem that it would have to be the same ratio, any thoughts? What is the ratio for the main building?
thanks.

Vegas Grows Up
Sep 14, 2007, 6:57 PM
Silas,

Diablo's Cantina looks awesome and I agree the strip needs more stuff like this!

BrandonJXN
Sep 14, 2007, 7:40 PM
Ok...question...it's been bugging me forever and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one: Is it Fountainblue, Fontainblue, Fountainblow or other?

laguna
Sep 14, 2007, 7:47 PM
If you are referring to the pronunciation, I can answer it. I just got back from Ft. Lauderdale/Miami and as I went by the hotel I had the same question. So I went inside and asked two different employees how to pronounce the name. They both said 'fountainblue' Not Blow as some incorrect people have quessed.

BrandonJXN
Sep 14, 2007, 7:58 PM
It's a awesome looking building. Just no one knew how to pronounce it. Fountainblue. Got it. Thanks.

jazfingr
Sep 14, 2007, 8:41 PM
There is a difference between the correct pronunciation and the accepted pronunciation.

accepted - fountain blue
correct - fawn-ten-bloh (accent on the last syllable)

Now, when you pronounce it correctly, you sound like an affected snob. So, to hell with the correct pronunciation...go ahead and Americanize it. BTW, this is the third time this has come up in this thread.



Another thing that has come up several times in this thread is folks discussing condo-hotel and realty issues. This is not the thread for that. This thread is about architecture, developments and primarily buildings. While we do get off topic from time to time, extended dialog regarding condo-hotel and realty issues (usually between two people) should either be taken private or to another forum i.e. http://www.yaerd.org/realestateforum/viewforum.php?f=3

No offence folks, but this is SkyscraperPage

I know this "two part" thread has over 5,000 combined posts and it's a chore to read it all. Perhaps if all the new folks would go back a few months and read forward, a lot of questions and issues would be answered.

Just ranting -

Here's a shot of Diablo's I took on 9/10/07

I think it looks good on the strip. I also think it looks dumb next to the Monte Carlo (a clash of styles). Who knows, maybe MGM MIRAGE has planed for remodeling the whole resort - time will tell

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1186/1382097835_d5cb1fac9a_o.jpg

PeteK
Sep 14, 2007, 10:04 PM
:worship:
Thanks for the rant Jaz. Now you need to respond to the Koval flooding post, the Fountainebleau spelling posts, the Trump signage posts, the Sky and Panorama sales pitches we have to wade through (all in the last 20 pages or so) and the rest that have nothing whatsoever to do with Las Vegas HiRise Construction. I really have nothing against these folks posting this stuff, but I do agree that getting off topic might cause some permanent meltdown of some sort (probably the server or software). Enough said, I guess. I strive to respect the wishes of the board's management.


Justdefended, Fish, cosmovegas, laguna, cosmo2k8 and anyone else wishing to talk about the Cosmo can e-mail me directly at kozlowskicpa@sbcglobal.net.

jazfingr
Sep 15, 2007, 12:11 AM
:previous:

Actually, I don't mind a break from the construction once in a while. A photo of a dust storm on the strip or a flood. Hey, that's all good. It's just the endless babble about real estate that plagued this forum last spring. These guys love to type and tend to write multi-paragraphical books on the subject, which hijack the thread for pages and pages.

:D

cosmo2k8
Sep 15, 2007, 1:06 AM
Hey all,

The Harmon Residences brochure is now available for download at the CC website.

www.citycenter.com

Cheers!

:cheers:

BrandonJXN
Sep 15, 2007, 2:45 AM
I want the song on Citycenter's page.

fishordie
Sep 15, 2007, 5:11 AM
The basics of the Cosmo Rental contracts include a 50 - 50 split with management however there is also a hold back for unknown costs. There is also a 3 day use by the management, at their discretion, where the owner is not reimbursed. If these 3 days are used on the big Holidays the split goes very much in favor of management. The owner gives up their voting rights in the homeowners association and gives that to management. The owner is responsible for damages not collected by the management. The owner will maintain and pay for insurance on their unit at all times.

In return the owner gets a certain amount of use dates depending on the option chosen. Anywhere from 7 days a year to 30 days a year, however, there is no guarantee you will get to use your own unit. If your unit is booked, or the set aside for owners rooms are already taken, then you will get a hotel room instead. You can only book your times a short period in advance so you cannot book for the holidays or any other period a year in advance. The hotel has the right to book your units as many years in advance as they choose and when you sell your unit the new owners are liable for days already booked in your unit even if they do not participate in the rental program. The hotel may pay your closing costs and provide other minor incentives depending on the option chosen.

As a note: I am not an attorney but this is my understanding of the agreement after reading it many many times.

There is more but that is enough to give you the gist. I am also assuming the same contract will apply to both towers. It appears as if the management wants as many room days for rent as possible. I do not doubt this complex will be in high demand as its location may be the best in Vegas.

For this owner the Cosmo is an exciting purchase. I will not let the rental agreement take anything away from that.
The chance to be a part of this fantastic project including its amenities, location and cool factor makes this one of, if not the best, High rise opportunities in Vegas. JMHO

FOD

jazfingr
Sep 15, 2007, 7:53 AM
:previous: :previous:

Some people just can't take a hint :shrug:

Hans Gruber
Sep 15, 2007, 11:38 AM
Trumps Tower seems to be outclassed and ignored compared to the city center project and some of the residental towers built and or sponsored by major hotels like MGM.

Now if they can only rip down the polo tower club building and give the owners a uinit in whatever goes in it's place.

I don't see an end to the building in Vegas. The only question I have is wheater Vegas has a height limit in place. I know Mandalay Bay is 50-55 stories tall, will there be any condo towers that top 1000ft in the near future?

RazzMan
Sep 15, 2007, 12:29 PM
Trumps Tower seems to be outclassed and ignored compared to the city center project and some of the residental towers built and or sponsored by major hotels like MGM.

Now if they can only rip down the polo tower club building and give the owners a uinit in whatever goes in it's place.

I don't see an end to the building in Vegas. The only question I have is wheater Vegas has a height limit in place. I know Mandalay Bay is 50-55 stories tall, will there be any condo towers that top 1000ft in the near future?

WHY ARE YOU RAGGING ON TRUMP............HIS IS THE ONLY TOWER CLOSE TO BEING SOLD OUT.........................................................................
WHY DO YOU SAY HE IS BEING IGNORED? The Tower is very nice and will be even better with the Plaza next to it.

heyyoucharlie
Sep 15, 2007, 2:40 PM
LOL... JAZ I couldn't agree more!!! Good Rant, it should be posted at the top every time this thread turns a page!!! :tup: :cheers: :tup:

fountain
Sep 15, 2007, 2:59 PM
Thanks much, fish, for the concise and crucial info. This wary owner appreciates your vote of support for the project.

Silas
Sep 15, 2007, 4:14 PM
Thank you Jaz for that photo of Diablo's Canina! Looks like my kind of place. A very excellent move by Monte Carlo decision makers. With this new place, I am about 50 times more likely to walk into the Monte Carlo casino (already feeling good) and spend some money in their place.

With CityCenter and Palazzo, etc., etc. there will be a real need for FUN at places like this. Looking forward to Trader Vic's and others like it.

justdefended
Sep 15, 2007, 4:35 PM
Since the issue of condo hotel ownership talk is sprouting up again, here's a link to a site for full discussion of those topics.

http://ownvegas.ning.com/forum

Individual forums for Signature, Cosmo, Vdara, and whatever to continue the babble, which I find informative, along with all the great pics here.

:worship:
Thanks for the rant Jaz. Now you need to respond to the Koval flooding post, the Fountainebleau spelling posts, the Trump signage posts, the Sky and Panorama sales pitches we have to wade through (all in the last 20 pages or so) and the rest that have nothing whatsoever to do with Las Vegas HiRise Construction. I really have nothing against these folks posting this stuff, but I do agree that getting off topic might cause some permanent meltdown of some sort (probably the server or software). Enough said, I guess. I strive to respect the wishes of the board's management.


Justdefended, Fish, cosmovegas, laguna, cosmo2k8 and anyone else wishing to talk about the Cosmo can e-mail me directly at kozlowskicpa@sbcglobal.net.

Silas
Sep 15, 2007, 7:28 PM
How about the Las Vegas Town Square shopping area? I read it is due to open in November and that they just completed the 'flyover' construction -- which sounded cool from a construction standpoint.

Most of the time these 'lifestyle centers' disappoint and are nothing like the renderings. Hopefully the builders will not skimp on trees and landscaping. I'll be curious to check that place out in December.

jazfingr
Sep 16, 2007, 10:43 AM
How about the Las Vegas Town Square shopping area? I read it is due to open in November and that they just completed the 'flyover' construction -- which sounded cool from a construction standpoint.

Most of the time these 'lifestyle centers' disappoint and are nothing like the renderings. Hopefully the builders will not skimp on trees and landscaping. I'll be curious to check that place out in December.

I drove by it last week on my way back the the OC. My camera's memory was full, so I didn't get any shots of it. It looks pretty extensive, but not unlike many such projects here in S. CA. I am rather jaded to projects like this, but Vegas could use a one stop shopping and entertainment venue that's not on the strip proper. I think it will be popular with locals and good for the south strip area.

ScottG
Sep 16, 2007, 4:13 PM
the district at green valley ranch is a success depending on how you look at it. the shops dont do well, but the restaurants are always packed, the 'street' always has foot traffic, people watching is very popular there, it a great place to walk and window shop. people bring their dogs and kids, teens hang out there, its romanitc. etc. but its no mall.

town square looks to trump the district, its bigger and could be better. they are building a MALL, adding everying the district was successful on and leaving everything it failed at out. the district has very little landscape, and the stores are not popular brands. and the district is on straight street. town square is a 'town' outdoor movie theatre concert venue, 100 stores, restaurant, condos. its very exciting. it seems to bring lots of fun.

speaking of fun. PLANET HOLLYWOOD ROCKS! last night i went out to their casino which is basically done. it is great. my favorite casino in town. the design is great and the atmosphere is amasing. they blast club music in the casino, the dark wood finishes with the bring light accents really make it feel like a dance club. there are really great crystal chandeleirs and rather large that bring a classy touch. there are plasma screen tv every where, some promoting the hotel, some chowing movie trailers, some just sparkling with lights (like a screen saver) the exterior now has lighting behind those pocka dots and they change colors and even 'dance'. meaning they kinda put on a show. the mall is..coming along, there are some spots close to the casino that hint a the final product that look great. everything here is beautiful. really what vegas needs, a hip / modern / a fun place all around. planet hollywood's theme is 'vegas'

id say the only 'missed boat' would be the tower, having a blank white tower does not represent whats goin on on the inside. (btw - the PH signs no longer have a blue outline within the red circle around the PH - so the tower is solely white and red - wonder why?)

Vegas Grows Up
Sep 16, 2007, 5:17 PM
As you all know, the media has been very tough on the Vegas strip for the last two years saying that 50k condo units have been cancelled and that another 80k are coming. Most everyone on this board knows thats not true. The problem? The public doesnt and that hurts ALL OF US. When the press says Vegas is a blood bath it slows all construction as buyers get nervous.

One of the main problems is analysts in town who provide the press with these stats. They never include the fact that the majority of projects cancelled were never too viable to begin with.

Bruce Hiatt and I spent a month with CNBC teaching them the truth about this market. We drove them around and showed them facts to back up our points and they listened. The finished result? 5-8 stories on CNBC and the fairest assessment in two years of what is happening on the strip.

I encourage everyone to share this video with as many people as possible...this is the first time in 2 years the national press has painted a true picture!

SEE THE VIDEO (http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=515241273)

justdefended
Sep 16, 2007, 10:10 PM
Thanks Aaron, caught this the other day.

It's nice to hear that the Vegas high rise market is unlikely to implode. It's really an international destination with everything to offer. I'd expect per square foot prices to soar in the next few years with high land prices and construction costs.

I know someone who bought a Vdara deluxe studio for about $945 a square foot. He's happy! :)


As you all know, the media has been very tough on the Vegas strip for the last two years saying that 50k condo units have been cancelled and that another 80k are coming. Most everyone on this board knows thats not true. The problem? The public doesnt and that hurts ALL OF US. When the press says Vegas is a blood bath it slows all construction as buyers get nervous.

One of the main problems is analysts in town who provide the press with these stats. They never include the fact that the majority of projects cancelled were never too viable to begin with.

Bruce Hiatt and I spent a month with CNBC teaching them the truth about this market. We drove them around and showed them facts to back up our points and they listened. The finished result? 5-8 stories on CNBC and the fairest assessment in two years of what is happening on the strip.

I encourage everyone to share this video with as many people as possible...this is the first time in 2 years the national press has painted a true picture!

SEE THE VIDEO (http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=515241273)

Silas
Sep 17, 2007, 4:37 AM
Very very impressed with the CNBC spot. Wow - you guys are really players.

So refreshing to see a dose of reality and truth from the mainstream media when it comes to real estate. My own personal opinion is that this real estate 'collapse' has been mostly Wall Street/media driven. Why? Quite simply because investors were taking their money away from NYC/Wall Street. The handful of media moguls/Wall Street players would not stand the competition. They planted all the seeds of negative stores about the 'crash' even though prices were down only 1% until quite recently.

It seems that they have done such a good job though, that they are at risk of over-doing it - and the crunch spreading outside of real estate.

Well, that is my theory anyway. (Note how they consistently say that the high end market right near Wall Street is doing great!)

As far as this CNBC story - very great report because it is true and highly publicized.

That dope talking about the monorail was funny. The monorail is actually great IF you stay at MGM or the Harrah's properties nearby. I found it excellent for MGM - convention center but otherwise of course it's out of the way. But why ridicule the new system? It is the only private system and they are trying to make it work. With the new arena coming, and possibly airport connection -- I am pulling for it.

Great story. I am actually excited about all the negative stories nationally - as the more and more buyers who have been scared away means that interest rates may be coming down....... down ................. down!

One more RE theory I have that has not been discussed elsewhere:

Real Estate cycles historically run anywhere from 3-7 years more or less. However, I contend that we are now in a new world in which the cycles up and down will move much more quickly. The internet has changed everything, including real estate investment. Just stop and think about how we got our information 15 years ago. Virtually non-existent! Now we have so much brand new, immediate RE info. The transactions and decisions happen so much faster - and the psychology and resulting transactions can change on a dime. This is a new world for RE investing and I maintain that we may see cycles up/down every two or three years. Note as an example the Phoenix market which was only in boom mode for two yeras, now in bust mode - but possibly a coming bood again soon?

Well, thank you for indulging my post. I believe there will be many more opportunities with the shortened cycles.

But then again, I will defer to the experts who are quoted on CNBC.

Vegas Grows Up
Sep 17, 2007, 6:58 AM
Thank you Silas for the kind comments.

I agree with much of what you said!

jazfingr
Sep 17, 2007, 7:21 AM
OK - back to construction, The retro glass pattern is starting to be installed on Panorama Tower Three. Snapped both of these last Wednesday. :D

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1038/1395790580_8489ef6fc3_o.jpg

Vegas Grows Up
Sep 18, 2007, 11:19 PM
Very cool Jazz.

BuildemBig
Sep 18, 2007, 11:20 PM
I just spoke with my Host at the Venetian about reservations for the Dec 20 opening of the Palazzo and was advised to hold off. He said that the Casino will be ready but only about 1,000 of the rooms will be completed, none of the shops will be open and only a few of the restaurants. He said the VIP grand opening party is scheduled for February when everything is slated to be finished.

jazfingr
Sep 19, 2007, 9:31 AM
:previous:

I figured they wouldn't have it all done :haha:

That's one of the big differences between Adelson and Wynn, Wynn had everything open and ready on the opening day.
First impressions last.

ScottG
Sep 19, 2007, 4:06 PM
so theres a project they has NEVER been mentionedon here yet. its a hotel casino that DEMOLISHED an old hotel / casino, and its actually already about 15 stories high!

Well, it WAS nevada palace - and old locals place on boulder highway about a mile south from Sams town, well they was demoed a while back and THE CANNARY is replacing it. it seems to be a pretty desent sized hotel, about the same scope as sams town. so theres ANOTHER project already half way done now.

hotdog
Sep 21, 2007, 5:06 AM
Not exactly a skyscraper, but here's news on a Hard Rock Cafe for the strip:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2007/sep/20/092010144.html

VegasMatt
Sep 21, 2007, 4:48 PM
Incase you missed it,

Here's a short news bit on Lady Luck...

http://www.lvrj.com/business/8546662.html

ScottG
Sep 22, 2007, 4:40 PM
the new frontier is abit demolished - windows are gone along the bottom floors and random one gone along the upper floors (at least along the west side of the tower)

MrVegas
Sep 23, 2007, 6:34 AM
so theres a project they has NEVER been mentionedon here yet. its a hotel casino that DEMOLISHED an old hotel / casino, and its actually already about 15 stories high!

Well, it WAS nevada palace - and old locals place on boulder highway about a mile south from Sams town, well they was demoed a while back and THE CANNARY is replacing it.

Here's a picture of the new Cannary Hotel.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4714/nevadapalace092207fr3.jpg


Here's a picture of another building that never seems to get mentioned. Try to figure out where it's at. *The answer is at the bottom of the last picture in this posting.
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1577/unlv092207iv2.jpg


There are now two cranes at the Palazzo Condo Tower
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4055/palazzocondo092207ll3.jpg


Echelon Place now has rebar and cranes on-site.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3152/echelon092207ce6.jpg


Tahiti Village Tower
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3440/tahitivillage092207og7.jpg



South Point Expansion
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4659/southpoint092207ne2.jpg



*Answer: Urban Affairs Building on UNLV campus

jazfingr
Sep 23, 2007, 7:54 PM
Nice shots MrV

Damn...SouthPoint is an ugly building:yuck:

lfc4life
Sep 23, 2007, 11:09 PM
Nice shots MrV

Damn...SouthPoint is an ugly building:yuck:

might be a little on the ugly side alrite, but guests on Tripadvisor rank it ahead of Bellagio, Wynn, Venetian, Mandalay etc. It's actually the highest rated Casino/Hotel resort in the vegas area according to that site.

justdefended
Sep 24, 2007, 4:01 AM
might be a little on the ugly side alrite, but guests on Tripadvisor rank it ahead of Bellagio, Wynn, Venetian, Mandalay etc. It's actually the highest rated Casino/Hotel resort in the vegas area according to that site.

I love South Point! The buttery yellow exterior is a little much, but the rooms and casino have a very efficient, pleasant layout.

MrVegas
Sep 24, 2007, 5:49 AM
The developer of the planned downtown arena just got a 30-day extension of time.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/lv-other_cut/2007/sep/23/c00011859.html

hotdog
Sep 24, 2007, 9:11 AM
Here's an article on downtown development plans: http://www.inbusinesslasvegas.com/2007/09/21/qanda.html

jazfingr
Sep 24, 2007, 11:15 PM
You saw it here first. The first rendering of The Plaza Las Vegas
I think they handled the challenge rather tastefully. :tup: I am not a fan of old architecture being redone,
but if it must be that way, they did a nice job of breaking it into several buildings. OMG...is that gold glass...I sure as F hope not. :yuck:


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1232/1435459450_956da3280b_o.jpg

Superfish
Sep 25, 2007, 12:57 AM
Looks great from what I can see, lots of towers, very intricate architectural detail (hopefully) up there or even exceeding with Bellagio and/or Paris Hotel. Won't match up with Trump in the back but he likes standing out by himself anyway.

The street fronting smaller U tower is an inviting appearance and is less imposing from the street than putting the taller tower closer there (Fontainebleau, Encore). I like that. The main tower looks ok, they are opting for an east facing and south facing tower, instead of creating a wall like Echelon is doing. Breaking it up Hilton Grand Vacations style instead of making an "L" also makes it a bit more open.

The smaller pillar towers seems to make it resemble turrets in a medieval castle, but is the best choice for adding units as the slender profile will not block views from the main tower.

Only other concern is street level frontage, it seems to be mostly landscaping, I see how it adds a good high class feel as opposed to lining it with stores but not secluding it so much like Wynn's hill.


The curved and T building will never be built and isn't part of Plaza anyway.

They are the old Echelon place designs for Delano Hotel, Mondrian Hotel...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Echelonlv2.jpg

Vegas Grows Up
Sep 25, 2007, 1:20 AM
This rendering is very nice. I have started my VIP Plaza Hotel Las Vegas (http://vegascondoscene.com/the-plaza-hotel.html) reservation list in regards to the luxury condo component.

future29
Sep 25, 2007, 1:53 AM
nice rendering of Plaza. renderings, however, always seem to look better than the real thing so lets not get too carried away. im curious now to see if Echelon makes any changes to their plans, looks like Plaza will completely block any view the Delano and Modarin have. interesting there is no connector or pedestrial overpass from the fasion mall. do you think the casino will be located in the glass atrium fronting the strip?

Superfish
Sep 25, 2007, 3:19 AM
That would be pretty cool to have it under the glass. The central area seems to be covered with pools so it won't have that option of natural light. They could also do an indoor garden type of thing like Wynn and maybe have part of the casino under the atrium and having the big part of the casino further back. I think the glass atrium would be nice for part of the lobby and entrance of sorts instead of filling it entirely with casino space. What a nice entrance it would make.


As with all renders they sometimes make it overly dark to show off the highlights but I brightened up the image a bit to show more detail. The road separating Echelon can be easily seen now.
http://i23.tinypic.com/rllvvd.jpg

ScottG
Sep 25, 2007, 5:06 AM
one thing i learned about working in an architecture firm (DID I EVER MENTION THAT BEFORE?) is that renders come in and out of the office on a daily basis, constantly changing, by the time one goes public it is either a dead design, or re-designed 3 times already. the rendering(s) has to go to the owner and then to the investors. they have seen (and approved) the rendering weeks (or months) before the public sees it. and actually that can cause issues, like the southern highlands rendering.....the released one is not what the design / owners approved. the architect was pretty upset the wrong one was released (or so ive read).

anyway, the plaza rendering falls into this category - the old echelon massing to the side proves this.

and i personally dont like this design, it reminds me of that adams family resort. i dont think they want to 'replicate' the new york plaza. id say expect something romantic and classic not too different than bellagio (upscale / detail) and venetian (romance/ detail / classiness)

Red UM Rebel
Sep 25, 2007, 5:20 AM
I think you make a good point ScottG about it looking like the Adam's family resort. I thought they would try to make it look like the one in New York, and as I pointed out earlier, they already have one spot that is going for that look. All in all, I am sure it will be done well, and I hope they make it so incredibly nice that it makes like six or seven diamonds or something ridiculous. I do agree though, these initial renderings might not be anything like what is eventually built.

hotdog
Sep 25, 2007, 6:11 AM
To me, that Plaza rendering looks kind of like the rendering of the Marriott Grand Chateau, which ended up looking much cheaper in its built form than in its rendering. Hopefully the finished Plaza looks nothing like the Marriott.

Patrick
Sep 25, 2007, 6:52 AM
When I first saw it I was not impressed, its quite ugly in my taste, and I love the Plaza Hotel's architecture.

Of course the renderings will change, so I'm not judging yet, this rendering is too abstract and will proabably look nothing like the final project.

My only real concern is the layout, Echelon is awfully close (God what a dissapointment that was) and the towers seem too cluttered, I prefer less towers, at most 3 main ones. But like i said, wait for better renders.

Or like this: Keep the "U" building, center the "T" building and have two narrow tall towers on each side.

I do hope it turns out simular to the Paris Hotel, really one of the most charming hotels on the strip . Ever been to the top of the mini-Eiffel Tower with the french elevator ladies? A real stunning view, much more smaller that Stratosphere, but In my taste, better than the Stratosphere view. The hotel did a great job with landscapeing and the replicas, the hotel tower itself is amazing, Paris themed casino, If i rememeber correctly, part of the Eiffel Tower replica extends into the casino.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lord-spam/281038816/
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/85/281038816_a441c356af.jpg?v=0

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darrins/185865598/
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/185865598_6b806d411b.jpg?v=0

And that view:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/judybaxter/25823266/
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/25823266_68fe5d0875.jpg?v=0

http://www.flickr.com/photos/judybaxter/25825240/
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/25825240_8ff7e59223.jpg?v=0

jazfingr
Sep 25, 2007, 12:20 PM
I did a quick sketchup of the area with the newest Echelon plans.
The smallest distance between The Plaza's towers and Echelon's towers is over 400' - not bad.
The Plaza rendering is at an angle that distorts the distances and makes it seem too close to Echelon.
Stardust Rd. (now Echelon Resort Dr.) and Desert Inn Arterial have a combined width of about 130'.
That plus the setbacks will leave more than enough distance.
Hey density is something we all appreciate and this area will indeed be dense.:tup:


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1433/1437134543_a312330170_o.jpg

lfc4life
Sep 25, 2007, 12:25 PM
hate this render myself. 6 towers on that site, add the two trump towers; thats an incredible 8 TOWERS on the Frontier site. I bet Steve Wynn laughed himself silly over breakfast looking at that render. The main tower looks just like Marriott's Grand Chateau :yuck:

The small tower facing the strip should stay. The other five could easily be merged into one half-moon (curved) shape tower, now that would be stunning imo.

As ScottG says this is probably a very preliminary render, hopefully we will see much nicer designs in the next few months :cheers:

ScottG
Sep 25, 2007, 5:52 PM
oh i forgot to mention that architects also COMPETE for projects, so there actually numerous 'versions' of a product. an investor tells architects what they are looking for (a classy rendition of the plaza newyork hotel for instance) then they wait about a month (at the most) to see what firm has the most intent, design, cost, etc. some firms might inturpret the clients wants as a 'replica' and make something like that rendering, or a firm might consider addin modern details based off the plaza new york - not necessarily directly copying it.....like bellagio vs. the venetian...

so i wouldnt be suprised if we come across another plaza rendering with a different number of towers (1 main one) that reflects the plaza, but is not a replica...

also....i dont know if i like how the north end of the strip direct of focus changes. after wynn, ALL the hotels no longer wil be facing the strip but will face the southern end of the strip specificaly for the view, but the front of the hotel is off - youll actually see the side of the tower when you stand on LV BLVD. - encore, fountainebleau, echelon.

look at the rendering jaz did showing the mass of plaza, see how encore and echelon make this 'wall' that you drive thru....:/

Superfish
Sep 25, 2007, 6:02 PM
I did a quick sketchup of the area with the newest Echelon plans.
The smallest distance between The Plaza's towers and Echelon's towers is over 400' - not bad.
The Plaza rendering is at an angle that distorts the distances and makes it seem too close to Echelon.
Stardust Rd. (now Echelon Resort Dr.) and Desert Inn Arterial have a combined width of about 130'.
That plus the setbacks will leave more than enough distance.
Hey density is something we all appreciate and this area will indeed be dense.:tup:


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1433/1437134543_a312330170_o.jpg

Good model. I am still unsure at this point what the Delano/Mondrain hotels actual designs are. There was a render back then with one of them on some sort of pillar/slit but I don't think they will build that.

Encore is also very close to the Plaza, if something like this is built north strip will start looking like a canyon. Another similar area would be Fontainebleau and Sky.





I do not understand why many members are dissing it right off the bat preliminary or not. And it seems to not to be just the position of the towers which can change but the design itself? As Patrick himself stated the Paris is pretty nice if they make it like that it certainly can't be that bad.

Would you rather have the Montreux back then? Or more boring all-glass towers like Echelon? We have quite enough of those thank you very much. We need this and we need this now.

future29
Sep 25, 2007, 6:46 PM
correct me if im wrong, but i did not think Echelon would be all glass? the front is glass but the sides are cement, which is going to make a very ugly frontage on the strip. hopefully they will add a residential tower along the strip in their Plan B phase to atleast make thier site somewhat presentable.

and as far as Plaza goes, i agree with those who say it looks like Marriot Grand Chateau. if the finished product comes even halfway close to looking like that, it would be a great disapointment.

jazfingr
Sep 25, 2007, 11:06 PM
As far as I know, this is the final rendering of Echelon - and since it's now under construction, I'm 99% sure
that's what will be built.

The Plaza rendering came to me from a reliable inside source. Although, it is an early rendering, the final resort
will most likely be close in design and layout.

The Plaza will be a "six-star" property with huge rooms. I imagine that the skinny towers will be the suites towers
and condos and only have four rooms on each floor (one on each corner) with elevator entrances directly to the rooms. We'll see.

The only thing I would change in The Plaza project is the design of the skinny towers. Why do they need
to be the same as the main hotel buildings, A little diversity would make the whole thing look more like a small city.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1365/1440181024_875541f62b_o.jpg

Superfish
Sep 26, 2007, 3:47 AM
I see. The stilt tower was on the drawing board at some point but they probably realized whatever was going to be built on the Frontier site would likely block it, rendering its purpose of being eye catching useless. Plus building a unique tower like that would have been much more expensive than a regular tower.


BTW, just noticed this but Trump Tower II is supposed to be set back a bit, we all thought it would look like that side by side but notice in the Plaza render they shift the 2nd tower north a bit by the width of the 1st tower. :)

It's to preserve east-west views for both towers I assume.

DMaldon762
Sep 26, 2007, 7:05 PM
Was there any comfirmation on what the blue is between the two towers at Echelon? Is it a waterfall?

jazfingr
Sep 27, 2007, 5:53 AM
Was there any comfirmation on what the blue is between the two towers at Echelon? Is it a waterfall?

No confirmation, but my guess (for what it's worth) is it will be a large LED screen emulating a waterfall. :shrug:

gmcclenon
Sep 27, 2007, 3:48 PM
Not that many people here thought that it would get built at 1888' tall but here's a mention of what the FAA and Milam are thinking on Crown Las Vegas:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/consumer/2007/sep/25/566639221.html

Second article down.

Silas
Sep 27, 2007, 9:16 PM
Plaza plan is intriguing. I think more than any other project, this one has the potential to be magnificent but also to suck. I think that the attempt to capture the grandeur and charm of the NY Plaza and Central Park are not going to transfer well to Vegas -- but I hope to be proven wrong. I'm sure I would have said the same of the Bellagio concept. Then again, without the lake at Bellagio ...... ?


http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/sun/2007/sep/27/566642944.html

Kirre
Sep 27, 2007, 10:33 PM
Picture of the Planet Hollywood Towers site I took today. I talked to a worker near an entrance and she said they are on track to do one floor a week now. No date on when tower two will go vertical though. But from looking at the site, I am guessing very soon.

http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/201174898-L.jpg

jazfingr
Sep 28, 2007, 5:58 AM
Well (damn-it), just like automobiles (with or without fins), the prototype/concept is always more sleek and beautiful than the dumbed down final product. It seems strange that Planet Hollywood is still using the concept photos to promote the towers. :shrug: I found this updated rendering on the architect's site.

Gone are the rounded-corner balconies on the lower floors. The too-cool thin balconies in the red fins have been reduced from six floors to only four. And the overall design is less streamline, less dramatic. I always thought the first renderings were too good to be true and, alas, I was right. Oh well, there still pretty cool buildings.

Early rendering
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1402/1451597478_9f4069419d_o.jpg
.
.
New rendering
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1361/1451597592_d3b6da4a6b_o.jpg

Complex01
Sep 28, 2007, 2:29 PM
:previous:

Ahh did they get rid of some of the balconies. I hate when they do that. The balconie is the best part, at least for me it is...

:shrug:

Kirre
Sep 28, 2007, 4:24 PM
I was at the Planet Hollywood sales office yesterday and was also a little disapointed with the changes after I saw the new model. Still looks good though. I also took the opportunity to see the new model room they almost have completed. (I bought my timeshare unit last year on pictures alone). I was not disapointed in the rooms at all. I had a setting wrong on my camera, so only a few pictures turned out OK.

http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/201403828-L.jpg
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/201404526-L.jpg
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/201405183-L.jpg

mdiederi
Sep 28, 2007, 9:49 PM
Shot Wednesday night from Red Rock resort. –––>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/MoonStrip3.jpg

bobmcelligott
Sep 29, 2007, 12:04 AM
Excellent shot. Thanks!:banana:

jai0707
Sep 29, 2007, 6:38 AM
I have a question...why does LV keep building more and more when a water crisis is right around the corner...is there a solution I dont know about

hotdog
Sep 29, 2007, 7:34 AM
Water shortage problems, while they may put economic pressure on Las Vegas, have a costly but effective solution: Las Vegas can always pay for desalination plants in coastal regions such as the Gulf of California and then buy Colorado river water in exchange for desalinated water. Right now, desalination is a few times more expensive than building new pipelines to transport water from the north, but at least there is an ultimate, sustainable solution, which may come down in price. So I wouldn't worry about water slowing the growth of Las Vegas tremendously. All these new building use very little water anyway. Grass is the biggest culprit. We have to encourage large buildings and discourage suburban sprawl to help with water (and other) issues.

NYC2ATX
Sep 29, 2007, 8:30 AM
Not that many people here thought that it would get built at 1888' tall but here's a mention of what the FAA and Milam are thinking on Crown Las Vegas:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/consumer/2007/sep/25/566639221.html

Second article down.

Nice! I'm actually quite relieved that this tower will be scaled down to somewhat realistic proportions. I never really liked anything about this tower anyway........ however, I'm hoping a redesign is also in the works. A major redesign...

gmcclenon
Sep 29, 2007, 4:40 PM
Shot Wednesday night from Red Rock resort. –––>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/MoonStrip3.jpg

Wow, amazing shot. Moon looks like it's photoshopped in.

BrandonJXN
Sep 29, 2007, 5:58 PM
Question: I was on wikipedia last night looking at Vegas hotels, and a few entries said that some of the hotels are trying to remove some of the 'gimmicky' aspects of their design and become a bit more 'adult'. Las Vegas was never ment for kids but Circus Circus and Excailbur are pretty kid friendly abiet a bit older. Do you think either of those hotels will be remodeled to remain popular for families but with a new, more updated look?

mdiederi
Sep 29, 2007, 6:06 PM
Moon looks like it's photoshopped in.
No, it's just one shot. The moon always gets real big this time of year. I saw it Tuesday and checked the almanac and waited for it on Wednesday and it came up just as the city lights came on. I did take about 20 bracketed RAW images and chose the best one, then cropped off the top and bottom useless space to make it look like a wide panoramic, and then adjusted the dynamic range and corrected the color a little. The focus is a little soft. The new office I just moved into is right next to Red Rock and I have the same view out my window. That's also why I haven't done many update photos lately, because my old office was half a mile from the Strip and easier to get down there more often.

I have a question...why does LV keep building more and more when a water crisis is right around the corner...is there a solution I dont know about
Seeing as how Las Vegas gets almost 100% of its water from local sources, if things get tight we can just follow the example of Los Angeles, which gets only 25% of its water from local sources, and start stealing it from other regions like they do. Phoenix steals a lot of their water from other regions too. The reason the railroad originally established Las Vegas as a city was because of the abundance of water they could use for their trains crossing the desert. Anyway, the Water Authority is adding a deeper pipe into Lake Mead, and they are renegotiating our allotment from Lake Mead, and we also have a lot of water "banked" with Arizona, and they also bought an entire valley up north and the rights to the aquifer below it. Most of Nevada is called the "Great Basin" because water flows into it instead of to the ocean. Only 10,000 years ago most of Nevada was under water in a land-locked sea. Some of the water that flows into the Great Basin evaporates and the rest of it goes underground. Technically, Las Vegas is just out of the southern edge of the Great Basin, because the Colorado River takes the Las Vegas Wash overflow out to sea (actually, southern California steals most of it before it reaches Baja). So the new pipeline to the aquifer will be a couple hundred miles long and cost a billion dollars or so to build. Many, many southwestern cities have far worse water situations than Las Vegas.

Nice! I'm actually quite relieved that this tower will be scaled down to somewhat realistic proportions. I never really liked anything about this tower anyway........ however, I'm hoping a redesign is also in the works. A major redesign...
The new PBL Annual Report that just came out Friday says that they are still working on the design. Whether or not it maintains "supertall" status remains to be seen, but I think eventually PBL will control 100% of this project and something major will be built there.
http://pbl.com.au/pbl_annual_concise_report_2007.htm

Question: I was on wikipedia last night looking at Vegas hotels, and a few entries said that some of the hotels are trying to remove some of the 'gimmicky' aspects of their design and become a bit more 'adult'. Las Vegas was never ment for kids but Circus Circus and Excailbur are pretty kid friendly abiet a bit older. Do you think either of those hotels will be remodeled to remain popular for families but with a new, more updated look?
Luxor is being remodeled right now and in this recent article about Jim Murran they said that Circus Circus will be remodeled. Haven't heard any word on future Excalibur plans.
http://www.casinocitytimes.com/news/article.cfm?contentID=168651

Hans Gruber
Sep 29, 2007, 6:37 PM
I think we can build a pipe down from Washington to Las Vegas and Phoenix. You can have all the river water you wan t from the Columbia River. For a couple extra billion we can divert the Columbia pipe before it hits Hanford's Nuclear reservation. All the water that flows through Portland Oregon is radiated, no government officials will admit this.

The Columbia River has enough water to irrigate the entire southwest and California. With so many dams along the Columbia, it's really a massive lake that barely moves running for 1,200 miles.

They've talked about sending water from Washington to California and Arizona for decades. It will cost you.

Superfish
Sep 29, 2007, 9:31 PM
I made a CityCenter construction timelapse from their webcam photos, which are always pointed in the same direction...

Timeframe is from April, August and today.

http://i22.tinypic.com/a32fe0.gif

http://i23.tinypic.com/1dy5bp.gif

May not look fast vertical-wise but for such a wide tower this is lightspeed.

stashu
Oct 1, 2007, 3:15 PM
Just returned from a week out in Vegas and have some pictures to post:

From the Stratosphere:

What's being put up across from Sky?
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1468571934_a537ae75aa.jpg?v=0

Closer shot of construction in above image
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1184/1468571242_8d8432fc13.jpg?v=0

Progress of Encore:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1192/1468571888_6d7e069fc7.jpg?v=0

Downtown - what's the bland gray building in the foreground and what's going up near the bottom right? I've got a closer chot of the gray building if needed.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1356/1467715993_ed604906d1.jpg?v=0

More downtown development (as usual, info on the development for this lurker appreciated).
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1230/1468571548_c971f36da7.jpg?v=0

Land clearing next to Plaza downtown
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1020/1468571500_9e95dfa7fa.jpg?v=0

Trump and the lonely T on the side
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1341/1467715635_af42c899fb.jpg?v=0

Condo tower on Sahara (not sure which it is) by Stratosphere
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/1468571056_e38d3c1469.jpg?v=0

Palms Place:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1105/1467715487_7787b77dae.jpg?v=0

World Market Center
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1174/1467716025_8fa2667fb3.jpg?v=0


No longer at the Stratosphere. Here's a shot from the Bellagio parking of Cosmo, with the "Beast" in the background
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1425/1468572492_b992823454.jpg?v=0

4 CityCenter pics, first is from Harmon, other 3 are as I sit at a stoplight on the Strip:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1371/1468574514_5ab45b5634.jpg?v=0

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1247/1467718527_abb7ed812f.jpg?v=0

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/1468574156_20906847e7.jpg?v=0

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1122/1468574090_c824d1b0d8.jpg?v=0

Hope this helps feed some of the hunger of others like myself who love seeing this stuff. I had a blast looking at everything and pointing it all out to my wife and seeming knowledgeable from all the great posters on this site.

Oh, I also do have better pictures if desired, I just threw what I had on to Flickr. I don't post images online so I'm not too experience with making them look better in forum posts.

mdiederi
Oct 1, 2007, 3:52 PM
What's being put up across from Sky?
Fontainebleau.
Downtown - what's the bland gray building in the foreground and what's going up near the bottom right?
Newport Lofts and Juhl.
More downtown development (as usual, info on the development for this lurker appreciated).
Streamline.
Land clearing next to Plaza downtown
Union Park.
Condo tower on Sahara (not sure which it is) by Stratosphere
Allure.

Kirre
Oct 1, 2007, 4:57 PM
I just got back from Vegas myself Stashu. I was at the Stratosphere on Saturday. Here are a few more pictures from the Strat as well as a few others.


Fontainebleau
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202734506-L.jpg

Palazzo
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202740750-L.jpg

Wynn Encore
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202741236-L.jpg

City Center Mandarin
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202741497-L.jpg

Trump Tower 1, Echelon site grading, Frontier/Future Plaza site
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202742054-L.jpg

Wynn Encore
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202742325-L.jpg

City Center
http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202746855-L.jpg

lfc4life
Oct 1, 2007, 7:58 PM
great shots guys and welcome to SSP btw :)

What's going on at the old El Rancho site anyone know?? i thought i saw something happening there for a while and now in stashu's Allure photo i think i can see a crane???

Complex01
Oct 1, 2007, 8:06 PM
:previous:

Indeed, those are very good shots...

:cool:

jazfingr
Oct 1, 2007, 8:20 PM
great shots guys and welcome to SSP btw :)

What's going on at the old El Rancho site anyone know?? i thought i saw something happening there for a while and now in stashu's Allure photo i think i can see a crane???

Right now it's the staging area for Fontainebleau. In the future, it's the site of the controversial, Las Vegas Tower super-tall (or not) :rolleyes:

VegasMatt
Oct 1, 2007, 8:36 PM
Although not related directly to architecture,
I thought some on this board may find this intriguing…

Saturday night I went to see Spamalot at the Wynn.
I showed up early,
and Wynn was in the theater showing it to Andrew Lloyd Webber.
Andrew seemed happy with the space.

lfc4life
Oct 1, 2007, 9:57 PM
Right now it's the staging area for Fontainebleau. In the future, it's the site of the controversial, Las Vegas Tower super-tall (or not) :rolleyes:

jaz; sorry man i was talking about the opposite side of the road, the old el rancho (burnt down in 1960).

I was thinking they are using it as a staging area for the next hilton grand vacation tower, though maybe MGM have starting preparing the ground for whatever they plan to build there.

maybe my eyes deceive me but i see a crane in this photo near the top left

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1323/1468571056_e38d3c1469.jpg?v=0

Superfish
Oct 1, 2007, 10:55 PM
I saw CityCenter's main hotel tower has topped out the back wing and now should be going up much faster with only half the tower still going vertical now...

I was wondering when they would finish it, it seemed like it kept getting taller and taller in one single piece.

jazfingr
Oct 2, 2007, 3:19 AM
jaz; sorry man i was talking about the opposite side of the road, the old el rancho (burnt down in 1960).

I was thinking they are using it as a staging area for the next Hilton grand vacation tower, though maybe MGM have starting preparing the ground for whatever they plan to build there.

maybe my eyes deceive me but i see a crane in this photo near the top left

Well, let's see here...

-Additional staging for Fontainebleau - maybe

-Staging for Hilton Vacation phase three, now that the parking garage is up, they can move the cars and get started - could be

-The beginnings of the MGM Mirage/Kerzner International project - doubtful, as no plans have been announced and this project should be in the planning stages for at least a year.

and, yes, that is a very small crane, the type used to unload heavy items from flatbeds (like the items that are scattered around that site.

I will do some research tomorrow and hopefully come up with an answer.

:D

stashu
Oct 2, 2007, 12:55 PM
I just got back from Vegas myself Stashu. I was at the Stratosphere on Saturday. Here are a few more pictures from the Strat as well as a few others.


That's funny. We arrived Saturday and were at Stratosphere Sunday.

Did you notice how the fountain at Paris was filled with red water?? Not sure if it was just one day or not, but we found it very weird.

Anyone else (locals) ever see this and know anything about it?

Saddle Man
Oct 2, 2007, 1:14 PM
There were other fountains with red water around the country. It was a promote for Showtime's series Dexter.

Kirre
Oct 2, 2007, 3:31 PM
There were other fountains with red water around the country. It was a promote for Showtime's series Dexter.

I noticed that the fountain was red for a couple days last week as well. I wasn't sure what they were doing since they had the area around the fountain blocked off. Maybe that was just so people would not stain their clothes. I wish I would have gotten a picture of it, you don't see many bloody red looking fountains. :)

hotdog
Oct 2, 2007, 4:16 PM
Here's the picture of it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mb_matt/1449411246/

Patrick
Oct 3, 2007, 6:41 AM
WOW only 5 years ago Mandalay Bay, NYNY, Paris, and the Aladdin where among the tallest in the city, now they look positivly tiny compared to Wynn and the Palazzo!

http://kirre716.smugmug.com/photos/202742325-L.jpg

bobmcelligott
Oct 3, 2007, 8:05 PM
This shot is from the Juhl webcam.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6568/trumpnameupzx0.jpg

mttbox
Oct 4, 2007, 12:36 AM
check here for how to load image.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq

bobmcelligott
Oct 4, 2007, 5:15 AM
Got it. Thanks.

Superfish
Oct 5, 2007, 4:52 AM
CityCenter webcam shot from today, yea it's blurry and stuff but the sunlight angle is cool. It's only about halfway tall too.

http://i23.tinypic.com/2en172s.jpg

VA_Gentleman
Oct 5, 2007, 12:29 PM
Hey guys. Is there a thread about Union Park, I can't seem to find one. Thanks.

lfc4life
Oct 5, 2007, 3:57 PM
To add to superfish's post here is the citycenter site this time last year

http://i20.tinypic.com/5waws6.jpg

lfc4life
Oct 5, 2007, 4:03 PM
Hey guys. Is there a thread about Union Park, I can't seem to find one. Thanks.


there is one over at SSC http://66.249.128.84/showthread.php?t=502673

mdiederi
Oct 5, 2007, 5:15 PM
http://www.globest.com/news/1007_1007/lasvegas/164742-1.html
It's now official, Marriott says it's planning a 3,500 room casino resort with 500,000 sq feet of meeting space across the street from the Las Vegas Convention Center. The company hopes to start construction this time next year and open in the second half of 2011

Superfish
Oct 5, 2007, 5:19 PM
Yea I made that Union Park page to stress the imporance of the project.

Also those interested in Union Park I suggest you read this article about the Ruvo center from the RJ. Such a small building it may be but it will mean so much for many people.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/10200256.html

The official Union park website may be update this month and it may give us a much better look of he master plan including recent projects like Palmer hotel, residences and such.


Next to Union Park you may not know is the planned Forest City Complex, also pretty unique in itself. It may include a new City Hall for Vegas as well as - unbelievable - Office towers.

http://www.forestcity.net/feature-bignews-3.html

VA_Gentleman
Oct 5, 2007, 8:29 PM
^Thanks for the info. I'm surprised there is no thread on this forum. I hadn't heard anything before on this Forest City/Livewire development. Sounds promising. If these two developments are built, downtown will not be so overshadowed by the strip.

future29
Oct 6, 2007, 1:22 AM
http://www.globest.com/news/1007_1007/lasvegas/164742-1.html
It's now official, Marriott says it's planning a 3,500 room casino resort with 500,000 sq feet of meeting space across the street from the Las Vegas Convention Center. The company hopes to start construction this time next year and open in the second half of 2011

interesting news. I have never seen a Mariott before with gambling (I think because the owners are Mormon). so this is interesting news to say the least.