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Aaron Auxier
Jan 3, 2009, 7:18 AM
FOD - I respect your assessments and do not think anything bad of them. My biggest frustration with everything is the media's unwillingness to admit the difference between the two product types and how much more inventory of condotel there is as opposed to residential. If building Strip condos were to become a thing of the past (besides what's built) I find it very important to address that residential is more rare.

Also, an appraiser must factor in value of prime land of the Strip, exorbitant replacement costs, the Nevada Labor Union, strict fire codes and what that means to developer's construction costs, and much more. The mere fact that we are now seeing how difficult it is for a developer to build residential condos should at least be acknowledged. Especially how silly they are to build from a gaming corporation's standpoint.

Your appraiser points are rock solid. I've heard from many of appraisers who complain that their competition continues to be appraisers who don't know the business and ones who take kickbacks etc. A real shame.

I feel Nevada as a whole needs to stop issuing so many darn Special Use Permits, tighten gaming regulation, and demand to see debt to income ratios and proof of liquidity to finish products no matter whether there is a downturn or not. Most of the failed projects (which gave Vegas a bad name and scared buyers away) were never real to begin with, our city being very green at understanding how to protect the integrity of growth.

Silas - All interesting points you make.

And Finally - Today, most agents' and buyers' focus is on tangible resale product (whether that be in the home or high-rise sector). Even if the market were to go through another building boom, agents and buyers have learned many valuable lessons and will be tougher on developers moving forward.

Regarding future growth - better support, regulation, respect, and communication are in order.

fishordie
Jan 3, 2009, 7:28 AM
Yo Silas,

That had better be a very large dime. Should we see those kind of interest rates the only ones who will be able to qualify will be the ones I mentioned.
The Fiscally responsible. Unfortunately, there are just not many of those.
For the lower priced homes this would be fantastic but as we go up the price ladder folks who bought a $750,000 home 3 years ago will still not be able to qualify and probably could not qualify for a loan at the present low value even 50% off. That is not to say the short term result of 2.9% interest will be a buying spree but prices skyrocketing?? I don't think so. Maybe a small upswing but not a skyrocket. One has to remember, these present interest rates for owner occupied, qualified loans, at the 5% or so rate for 30 years would have been considered like hitting the lotto 3 years ago.
We are not seeing skyrocketing prices. Heck, I have a 15 year loan at 4.75% on my home that was available 5 years ago but one had to be able to qualify.

One other note, the prices of the Uber homes surrounding Vegas could become a lure for some rich baby boomer's who want to retire. There is some real value there for those who can afford them and may continue to become even more affordable. This could also be a lure for Corporate Execs who want to relocate themselves and their businesses to the Nevada area. For this price range the low interest rates is just another perk for being able to qualify.

Unless everyone and anyone can qualify for those loans we will not see a skyrocket in prices for many moons. Hopefully the mistakes of the past made by lenders to qualify everyone will not occur again and thus, Like all the past turn arounds of the real estate market, the bottom will remain for some time and not suddenly jump. Of course this is just my opinion but that is all I have. Time will tell.

FOD

CHAPINM1
Jan 3, 2009, 8:45 AM
From ClatieK on Flickr taken from Henderson, NV on December 22.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/3139886693_4bb2439a90.jpg?v=0

mdiederi
Jan 3, 2009, 8:48 AM
I didn't see the show, but the Casino Death Watch website is reporting that on the channel 10 PBS show, Nevada Week In Review, Friday night, George Knapp predicted that Circus Circus might close.
http://www.jetcafe.org/npc/gambling/casino_death_watch.html

RandalR
Jan 3, 2009, 4:24 PM
...George Knapp predicted that Circus Circus might close.


That's kind of strange, since it's the kind of place that should be able to make money even in a down cycle. It's paid for and has rates that are still attractive to the lower middle class.

mdiederi
Jan 3, 2009, 4:55 PM
Circus Circus is in a bad location right now. On that whole stretch of the Strip, from Sahara Ave down to Spring Mountain Road, Circus Circus is the only resort on the west side of the Strip, now that the Stardust and Frontier are gone. Maybe foot traffic has dropped off a lot recently. Other than the Monte Carlo, Circus Circus makes the least amount of profit for MGM/Mirage compared to its other Strip properties.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/mgmmiragepropertiesEBITDA.jpg
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=101502&p=irol-otherreports

It will be interesting to see what the next quarter's numbers are.

neworleans
Jan 3, 2009, 5:52 PM
monte carlo's lack of a parking garage probably explains why their numbers are so low. I'm amazed at circus circus. everytime i go there it's hard to walk around it's so packed... and that's on a week day.

Silas
Jan 3, 2009, 5:58 PM
Re: Circus Circus,

That location has always seemed counter-productive for MGM, since MGM aquired all of the Mandalay-Bay properties. I'm sure they lose a lot of the gambling money to Riviera and now Wynn.

Just guessing that they may want to shut it down and instead push families/low rollers to the Excalibur. They know that all the gambling money would stay at MGM properties such as NYNY/MGM or Luxor/Mandalay. With CityCenter opening, that makes even less of a case for Circus-Circus.

mdiederi
Jan 3, 2009, 6:20 PM
From Norm's column on Thursday.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/36967909.html
There are rumblings that MGM Mirage is close to announcing the status of the beleagured City Center project, including whether several buildings will be completed. There's talk that The Harmon, the Light Group's boutique condo-tel, with 400 hotel rooms and suites and about 200 luxury condominiums, will be delayed. The bigger concern, I'm told, is the central iconic tower, which was designed to lean about 22 degrees but is now almost double that because of a cabling issue. ...
:shrug:

Silas
Jan 3, 2009, 6:52 PM
Whoooaa that sounds like something bad at CC.

Is Norm talking about Veer or Aria (central tower ?) Sounds like Veer ??? Leaning towers of Vegas? Wow.

RandalR
Jan 3, 2009, 7:20 PM
Whoooaa that sounds like something bad at CC.

Is Norm talking about Veer or Aria (central tower ?) Sounds like Veer ??? Leaning towers of Vegas? Wow.

Sounds like Veer - unless there is some sort of sculpture we aren't aware of. I don't know if they qualify as "iconic towers" though.

So if Veer and Harmon both prove uninhabitable do they get torn down or remade into giant statues of Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis, Jr., and Dean Martin? :D

Aaron Auxier
Jan 3, 2009, 7:48 PM
The local media needs to stop rumor promoting. It is bad for our city, disrespectful to MGM MIRAGE, and comes across as desperate for a story.

By the way, the reporting is so bad, Veer Towers lean at approx. 5 degree angles. Someone in the media bringing up 22 degrees proves the problem of irresponsible fact checking.

Wham bam journalism is part of what got our city into this mess. Should all of us on this forum have a passion for seeing future growth in Vegas, we all must take a stand and realize the harm done when stuff (that should never be printed until proven and/or fact checked) gets printed.

Aaron Auxier
Jan 3, 2009, 8:48 PM
One other note, the prices of the Uber homes surrounding Vegas could become a lure for some rich baby boomer's who want to retire. There is some real value there for those who can afford them and may continue to become even more affordable. This could also be a lure for Corporate Execs who want to relocate themselves and their businesses to the Nevada area. For this price range the low interest rates is just another perk for being able to qualify.

FOD

Good point. Not getting off topic (this is relevant to architecture), our new developer project Ascaya is expected by many to set a very high standard when it comes to architecture and topography. For those who haven't seen it, it sits above MacDonald Highlands and can't be missed. It is privately financed. We have not started sales yet but I can tell you that lots start at about half of an acre and go up from there. Very rare in Vegas to find lots in uber high-end custom communities with lots above half of an acre. Prime mountain-top lots have already received offers of which have never before seen in Clark County.

Ascaya
http://item.slide.com/r/1/191/i/YzueAOP14z_f6kiJJaH6Ubb9kmq9CR6b/

justdefended
Jan 3, 2009, 9:25 PM
The local media needs to stop rumor promoting. It is bad for our city, disrespectful to MGM MIRAGE, and comes across as desperate for a story.

By the way, the reporting is so bad, Veer Towers lean at approx. 5 degree angles. Someone in the media bringing up 22 degrees proves the problem of irresponsible fact checking.

Wham bam journalism is part of what got our city into this mess. Should all of us on this forum have a passion for seeing future growth in Vegas, we all must take a stand and realize the harm done when stuff (that should never be printed until proven and/or fact checked) gets printed.

You said it Aaron. When I read that Veer rumor yesterday I couldn't believe that someone could actually type that out. Anyone with eyes can see that neither Veer East nor West is leaning anywhere close to 40 + degrees.

These unsubstiated rumors just fuel an overtly negative tone in the Vegas building business. Sure, when there are real problems it's worth reporting. But there isn't any problem, the local media in particular shouldn't create them.

mdiederi
Jan 3, 2009, 10:11 PM
I looked at Veer yesterday and the vertical beams in the middle are perfectly vertical, and the angled sides are still the same angle they always were and no where near 22 degrees, let alone 44 degrees. nothing has moved. I don't understand the "cabling issue"? What cables? Maybe Norm got his rumors crossed with the story about the crawler crane that started leaning real bad a week or so ago? One rumor that is true is that Perini is over stretched with the project and MGM has given more work to Tishman. I'm sure Tishman appreciates that since they lost all that work on Echelon.

gmcclenon
Jan 3, 2009, 10:21 PM
Warning: I am completely biased as an owner of a corner unit at Sky.

I would like to further Aaron’s point about the differences between hotel condos and residential condos. The biggest difference with my unit at Sky versus the condo-tels and timeshare units that I have stayed in is 'the quiet'. No one in the hallways dragging suitcases, loud talking while inebriated. No one in the lobby checking in and out. Very few at the pool or Jacuzzi. Cabana's always available and you can always get an outdoor bar-b-q for grilling. It has a very relaxed, quiet and exclusive feel to it. No tourists, gamblers or overnighters on the property. You get to know your neighbors and you make friends. Very community like. Now, this is a larger 2 br unit, so it feels more like a home. Taking the elevator down to the CVS Pharmacy for party supplies is the height of convenience while reminding you that you are on the Strip.

The building itself is a concrete bunker. Overbuilt and tomb-like when you close your door. (The constant racket of the construction across the street at Fontainebleau notwithstanding.) In fact, in the high winds we had earlier this year, our neighbors on the upper floors reported no building sway!

I overpaid for my unit in ’06 near the peak. My hope is that, as Aaron has mentioned, construction costs and land prices alone will eventually put some kind of bottom to its price decline. Demand for these unique units will eventually grow because, as FOD has pointed out, there is no business case for residential condos on the strip - I doubt any more will ever be built.

As long as there are more than 409 people on earth that want to live across the street from a multi-billion resort with gaming, 29 restaurants and lounges, a theater and shopping, I may eventually get out whole. Again, this may be just wishful thinking.

I’ll make up for this shameful biased pitch for Sky by posting some pictures next week when I’m there for CES. The main pool deck at FB is coming along nicely! East facing units at Sky get the sunset reflection off of the blue glass of the FB. Looks surreal.

Aaron Auxier
Jan 3, 2009, 10:34 PM
All the publication did by printing that was further the point I (and many others) have been complaining about for years - that the media is causing many of our problems by printing un-researched data.

The same exact thing is happening with the "to-this-day unwillingness" to report condotel vs. true residential numbers.

RandalR
Jan 3, 2009, 10:40 PM
I would like to further Aaron’s point about the differences between hotel condos and residential condos. The biggest difference with my unit at Sky versus the condo-tels and timeshare units that I have stayed in is 'the quiet'. No one in the hallways dragging suitcases, loud talking while inebriated. No one in the lobby checking in and out. Very few at the pool or Jacuzzi. Cabana's always available and you can always get an outdoor bar-b-q for grilling. It has a very relaxed, quiet and exclusive feel to it. No tourists, gamblers or overnighters on the property. You get to know your neighbors and you make friends. Very community like. Now, this is a larger 2 br unit, so it feels more like a home.

The building itself is a concrete bunker. Overbuilt and tomb-like when you close your door. (The constant racket of the construction across the street at Fontainebleau notwithstanding.) In fact, in the high winds we had earlier this year, our neighbors in the 45th floor penthouse reported no building sway!


That's all true at Turnberry Place, too. People who come to visit me are amazed - I think they are expecting to find an MGM Grand-like hotel room instead of an actual luxury home in the sky.

mdiederi
Jan 3, 2009, 10:42 PM
The north Strip has a lot of high rise residential, I count eight towers. I consider Turnberry Place and Turnberry Towers as essentially on the Strip, though not directly. Does anyone know how sales have been at Allure and Turnberry Towers? Those were the last ones built. Seems there should be a lot of residents in that neighborhood who will frequently walk to the restaurants and bars at Fontainebleau. Will Fontainebleau still provide direct access to Turnberry Place residents as originally advertised?

RandalR
Jan 3, 2009, 10:55 PM
The north Strip has a lot of high rise residential, I count eight towers. I consider Turnberry Place and Turnberry Towers as essentially on the Strip, though not directly. Does anyone know how sales have been at Allure and Turnberry Towers? Those were the last ones built. Seems there should be a lot of residents in that neighborhood who will frequently walk to the restaurants and bars at Fontainebleau. Will Fontainebleau still provide direct access to Turnberry Place residents as originally advertised?

Fontainebleau refused to give Turnberry Place residents direct access, citing "security concerns". Nothing a $10/hour security guard and a key card system couldn't prevent, so I think they were just mad about the lawsuit some Turnberry residents filed over the ever-increasing height of the garage/convention center. So we'll have to drive around the corner to the Riviera entrance - or walk. It isn't really that far, but most people I know will drive, anyway.

I don't think the newer Turnberry Towers building is selling well at all. Don't know much about Allure except that with other developments stalled out due to conditions, it's going to stand by itself in a fairly bad neighborhood for a while.

Krases
Jan 4, 2009, 12:13 AM
I hope this economy turns around soon. The DOW Jones is over 9k now. Do you guys think things are getting better? I think things will come to a low point here in Vegas soon (if not already), then things will slowly get back to normal.

Aaron Auxier
Jan 4, 2009, 1:31 AM
Give me a little bit, I'll pull up all CLOSED transactions in Turnberry Place and Turnberry Towers (over the past three months) in a little bit. I'll post a link to them when done.

mac78130
Jan 4, 2009, 2:36 AM
Well at least the Harmon website is still up... :hmmm:

http://www.theharmon.com/

Aaron Auxier
Jan 4, 2009, 5:07 AM
I did these searches on Jan. 3rd, 2009, and looked back for any actual resale closings in the last 90 days. The only prob is, I cannot send out the detailed report which shows the actual sold-per-foot numbers. These just show the listing price that they were priced at when they went into contract.

I manually did the math for the PPF on the detail I'm allowed to see.

Turnberry Place (last 90 days from Jan 3rd. 2009)

Approx. 8 resale units have closed at Turnberry Place with an average price per foot of approx. $307.63.

See the Turnberry Place Sold Comps (http://las.mlxchange.com/Pub/EmailView.asp?r=1620049964&s=LAS&t=LAS) here (scroll at bottom).


Turnberry Towers (last 90 days from Jan 3rd. 2009)

Approx. 2 resale units have closed at Turnberry Towers with an average per foot of approx. $523.50. (seems higher that TP but mind you one of these appears to have sold fully furnished (667 a foot).

See the Turnberry Towers Sold Comps (http://las.mlxchange.com/Pub/EmailView.asp?r=1019728901&s=LAS&t=LAS) here.

mdiederi
Jan 4, 2009, 5:26 AM
Thanks!

Aaron Auxier
Jan 4, 2009, 6:46 AM
Tonight, we decided to have a little fun and make some degree graphs. What do you think? If Veer Towers was built to lean at 22 degrees, don't you think that would be impossible? Secondly, if they were messed up and leaning at 44 degrees would we not see that with the naked eye?

By the way - did you know that the Leaning Tower of Pisa is estimated to be leaning just approx. 4 degrees? How could someone think that a tower was built here 5 times that amount? And then, on top of that, think that they are leaning 10x that amount?

Rendering of Veer at intended approx. 5-degree angles
http://item.slide.com/r/1/236/i/iA3l9nboxT_gzPQDvs8uCaT8r7WRRI0E/

A simple graph showing approx. 22 degree angle
http://item.slide.com/r/1/2/i/q0by_5aT7T-BzqJuo1j7kAnj02hfdsUm/

A simple graph showing approx. 44 degree angle
http://item.slide.com/r/1/19/i/-lVHeHkJ6j8oHF7FrFZpUThmuRFRqfDg/

I think we all know the only thing that is leaning too far to one side in Las Vegas - the media.

mac78130
Jan 4, 2009, 8:31 AM
Thanks Aaron for all the stats and graphs. I'm so sick and tired of all the negative media.. I'm so close to canceling all my future trips to Vegas:ahhh:

ondarox
Jan 4, 2009, 9:28 AM
Trippies Awards are up at Vegas Tripping. Congrats Jazfinger on 3 years in a row!

mac78130
Jan 4, 2009, 10:30 AM
A good panorama, Cosmo, Vdara, Bellagio and Caesar
flickr photo by stephen nguyen
http://flickr.com/photos/nguystep/3166399168/

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1060/3166399168_6626c19042_b.jpg

mac78130
Jan 4, 2009, 10:42 AM
soothing reflections
flickr photo by nick leonard
http://flickr.com/photos/nickleonard/3165891592/

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1380/3165891592_95001499a7.jpg?v=0

justdefended
Jan 4, 2009, 10:00 PM
Perini, we have a problem.

http://i44.tinypic.com/27zxesi.jpg

mac78130
Jan 5, 2009, 3:06 AM
2009 overview by LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-ca-vegas4-2009jan04,0,6154773.story?track=rss

Aaron Auxier
Jan 5, 2009, 3:14 AM
This is a rough estimate what Veer Towers would look like if they were leaning at 44 degrees. Even 22 degrees would be incredibly obvious to the naked eye. LOL.

http://item.slide.com/r/1/111/i/kp4Xreou4D9ZY57DK5WhiebkFa-2jOLE/

leftopolis
Jan 5, 2009, 3:17 AM
From Norm's column on Thursday...The bigger concern, I'm told, is the central iconic tower, which was designed to lean about 22 degrees but is now almost double that because of a cabling issue. ...
http://www.lvrj.com/news/36967909.html

I clicked on the link just to be sure if there was more wrt this wierd, wild rumor--nada! of course I did discover that Norm's colomn is more or less a rumor mill more focused on paparazzi sightings than anything else. Nevertheless, you don't have to be the sharpest tool in the shed, or an architecture buff, to know that almost double 22 degreees is almost halfway betwween horizontal and vertical! It's common knowledge to understand that 90 degrees is perpendicular. "Cabling issue" was probably just thrown in to make it sound legitimate. The only explanation I can think of is that there was a typo and 2.2 degrees was the intended statement. If somebody would like to ask Norm himself:
Norm Clarke can be reached at (702) 383-0244 or norm@reviewjournal.com. Find additional sightings and more online at www.normclarke.com.

mdiederi
Jan 5, 2009, 4:46 AM
LOL, good one! Is 45 degrees about the same angle of the sides of the Luxor?

justdefended
Jan 5, 2009, 5:03 AM
Well, The Harmon cancellation rumor can be put to rest. At the CityCenter Careers page (opened today) there are seven pages of employment opportunities at The Harmon from Pastry Chef to Spa Manager.

Listed as operator - The Light Group.

Aaron Auxier
Jan 5, 2009, 5:15 AM
justdefended - nothing can be put to rest until MGM MIRAGE makes their statement which will hopefully be soon.

mac78130
Jan 5, 2009, 5:57 AM
On the citycenter careers page... The Mandarin sky lobby looks pretty impressive.

mac78130
Jan 5, 2009, 6:02 AM
Well, The Harmon cancellation rumor can be put to rest. At the CityCenter Careers page (opened today) there are seven pages of employment opportunities at The Harmon from Pastry Chef to Spa Manager.

Listed as operator - The Light Group.


Echelon was in the process of hiring and we all know how that ended, so it's still wait and see.

neworleans
Jan 5, 2009, 5:30 PM
over half of everything you read in the news is false. and you guys all know that already. for the reporter, why go out and do research when you can just sit there and make things up and get paid exactly the same. It's a lack of pride. as long as they get their story, they don't give a crap what impression they leave on vegas. They don't even care if the stories not true.

justdefended
Jan 5, 2009, 5:37 PM
According to the LVRJ in Aug., Echelon was not due to start hiring until 2009.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/26182389.html

I don't see why MGM Mirage has to make a statement about The Harmon in order to quell internet rumors. It would be like issuing a press release about how Veer does not lean at 44 degrees.

If they are publicly hiring for a project today, then it's still due to be complete as of today.

mdiederi
Jan 5, 2009, 11:45 PM
Rumors heating up that the Mirage has been sold for $1.2 billion with an announcement coming soon. MGM is denying it, of course.
http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=2462

Aaron Auxier
Jan 6, 2009, 1:22 AM
Welcome to 2009. It looks as though this will be quite the interesting year.

mac78130
Jan 6, 2009, 3:34 AM
Cosmopolitan is huge !
flickr photo by priscillien
http://www.flickr.com/photos/priscillien/
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1043/3171971629_6ace46e397.jpg?v=0

CHAPINM1
Jan 6, 2009, 5:56 AM
mac78130 your posts are the best! Thanks for all you contribute!

Seva
Jan 6, 2009, 7:21 AM
I have had a bad feeling about the Fontainebleau lately. The condotel portion of it isn't looking that great now like many others. It's probably just some baseless assumption but even without the economy down I really don't see how it can draw in that many visitors if it's there all by itself when it does open. Echelon and others would have connected it more with the rest of the southern strip but that is obviously not going to happen anytime soon. Even Encore at least has Wynn to channel in guests.

I hope it will survive as it can spark the next growth phase around that area 5-10 years down the road.

mac78130
Jan 6, 2009, 10:25 AM
I can't get over that Westgate signage :yuck:
photo by jeremylim
http://flickr.com/photos/jeremylim/3158183661/in/set-72157612038580604/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3296/3158183661_58293a1af0.jpg?v=0

Seva
Jan 7, 2009, 2:58 AM
Weird question but PH tower 2 is a long shot right? Why would they put that huge westgate sign on tower 1's south side if it will be blocked by the 2nd tower in the future? If it was originally planned like that having signs on south sides of both towers would be redundant as well.

Well, nothing can be more insane than this:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/37182444.html

ondarox
Jan 7, 2009, 3:15 AM
Well, nothing can be more insane than this:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/37182444.html

Seva- I was just going to post this... good reflexes!

Aaron Auxier
Jan 7, 2009, 4:15 AM
In addition to above, did anyone read this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINL67500620090106?rpc=44

mac78130
Jan 7, 2009, 4:22 AM
In addition to above, did anyone read this?

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINL67500620090106?rpc=44

Why Adelson :koko: ? Should of asked Steve Wynn!!

mttbox
Jan 7, 2009, 4:29 AM
Adelson? or Steve Wynn? don't matter! as long as that site gets going with something high-end.

Krases
Jan 7, 2009, 4:37 AM
Might I be the first to say HOLY SHI-.

It would be pretty cool if they ended up building a another massive new project. More jobs! Yay!

I would wait for more news before getting excited though. I won't really believe it until they begin construction.

mdiederi
Jan 7, 2009, 4:46 AM
In that article about Edge, they say the First World Hotel is the largest in the world (and I say the ugliest) but the Venetian/Palazzo Megacenter™ actually has more rooms and floor area, and is still larger with its three towers than this new Edge proposal and its four towers.

Krases
Jan 7, 2009, 5:07 AM
Had a little fun in MS paint. Yeah thats a pretty big site they have there. Blue is city center/cosmo (for comparison) and red is Africa-Israel. The site for "Edge" as there calling the Africa-Israel site now is a bit big in my edit because I figured those apartments in the north eastern portion would all be paved over by the new hotel as opposed to leaving a little isolated pocket, which wouldn't make sense.

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7548/gianthotel1yk6.png (http://imageshack.us)

mdiederi
Jan 7, 2009, 5:56 AM
I figured those apartments in the north eastern portion would all be paved over by the new hotel as opposed to leaving a little isolated pocket, which wouldn't make sense.
Actually, that satellite image is old. Those apartments are already gone. That's where the Hard Rock expansion is going.

Krases
Jan 7, 2009, 6:04 AM
Stupid satellites. They need to update those satellite images. Its a freaking urban center.

jazfingr
Jan 7, 2009, 6:26 AM
Here is a more correct configuration (without Cosmo)

it's still a big property.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3176370388_521ca01ecc_o.jpg

ondarox
Jan 7, 2009, 6:48 AM
Here is a more correct configuration (without Cosmo)

it's still a big property.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3327/3176370388_521ca01ecc_o.jpg

OMG- Mr Adams IS alive! Where have you been? Craving an update on VTAT. [Big fan]

BTW- does anyone know how to get the latest Vegas updates on either Google Earth or Google Maps? I'm sick of looking at preconstruction satellite images of Palazzo.

mac78130
Jan 7, 2009, 7:03 AM
they say the First World Hotel is the largest in the world (and I say the ugliest)

I agree, it's the ugliest... horrible paint job

jazfingr
Jan 7, 2009, 7:39 AM
OMG- Mr Adams IS alive! Where have you been? Craving an update on VTAT. [Big fan]

Ya, alive and well.
I've been going through a reformat and complete system installation...yuk
four days of driver hell, tech support hell and oops hell.

I'm also working (behind he scenes) on bringing VegasTodayAndTomorrow to web 2.0 with an updates-blog with an RSS feed.

I will also be moving to Vegas within the next six months. There will no stopping the updates then.

BTW- does anyone know how to get the latest Vegas updates on either Google Earth or Google Maps? I'm sick of looking at preconstruction satellite images of Palazzo.

There is a more recent aerial map at:
http://major.lasvegasnevada.gov/website/clvcamps/viewer.htm
it's kind of klunky and the sat image doesn't pop in until you zoom in close enough. :D

leftopolis
Jan 7, 2009, 9:38 AM
This came via my inbox, so no link...but was published in Las Vegas Sun.Letter: Maglev to Vegas a bone-headed idea -- HSR would do
Published Thursday, December 25, 2008, by the Las Vegas Sun

Letters to the Editor

A regular high-speed train would do

Building a high-speed rail line between Las Vegas and Southern
California would be a welcome move.

But what's with this bone-headed idea of making it a maglev train?

Maglev trains represent an expensive technology that is not yet ready
for prime time.

Luckily, there is no need to risk experimental concepts.

European high-speed trains are already in their second generation and
running at speeds near 300 mph on a huge multinational network that is
highly successful. And those trains are made by companies that would
be only too glad to start building a line here tomorrow at an
affordable price.

I have traveled on the European lines, and the superb engineering,
smooth, rock steadiness at speed and wonderfully quiet interiors of
these beautifully designed trains put so-called express trains in the
U.S. to shame.

Making the trip from Las Vegas to California in 86 minutes is
unnecessary. All the train has to do is match or, preferably, beat
the city-center-to-city-center times for driving or flying, at a
reasonable price. Exactly the European model.

But one of the newest European trains could do the 288 miles to the
coast in about 1 hour on simple metal rails.

And what's with making the line go to Anaheim, Calif.?

It needs to go directly to Los Angeles, the biggest single population
and business center, so travelers can change to that city's existing
public transit and Amtrak hubs.

Philip Jordan
Henderson

mac78130
Jan 7, 2009, 10:45 AM
Info on the Harmon Hotel construction delay and correction done at Veer.
(Still waiting on MGM/Mirage's decision)

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jan/07/builder-error-significant/

Aaron Auxier is in this article.. Didn't a unit at Harmon sell for more than $2400 per sq. ft. last summer??

mac78130
Jan 7, 2009, 2:44 PM
here it is Harmon hotel postponed, residences canceled !

http://www.lvrj.com/news/breaking_news/37202114.html

CHAPINM1
Jan 7, 2009, 3:42 PM
With the construction errors regarding the Harmon, I'm amazed they are going to demolosh it all together despite how much money would be lost.

worldpool
Jan 7, 2009, 3:55 PM
wow thank you people for info i like to see and whats going on in las vegas its great to have web sites like this one and my fav Vegas today and tomorrow to bring us the lastest stuff about new projest or buliding that are coming to las vegas in the future so thank you so much for your web sites sinserly worldpool

mdiederi
Jan 7, 2009, 3:56 PM
With the construction errors regarding the Harmon, I'm amazed they are going to demolosh it all together despite how much money would be lost.
Where did you hear they are going to demolish anything?

ondarox
Jan 7, 2009, 4:44 PM
Mark-

Best of luck with the changes in 2009! I can't wait to see the VTAT changes. And also, congrats on the move into Vegas.

Thanks for the website- it's has better updated info.

Re: Harmon-

It is a disappointment that they cancelled the condo portion and are running with an all hotel focus. But changes need to happen with the given market, and it is better than scrapping the project, or capping it where it is. A silly looking stump at the corner of LV Blvd and Harmon would kind of be a sore reminder of a failed project.

I'm really sorry for all of the people who were counting on living at The Harmon in the residential units. Also for the fabulous Realtors who helped them out. I know what it feels like to have dream properties fail in fruition. Even though most may be glad to get their deposits back, some still had their hopes of having a piece of one of the most gorgeous towers in Las Vegas. It really is stunning!

justdefended
Jan 7, 2009, 5:14 PM
Sounds good to me. It will be built out AND they save some cash in the process. Although, it is a shame that 88 were already sold.

worldpool
Jan 7, 2009, 9:27 PM
i hate to ask if edge is going to happen and its 60 acors of land how is it going to bet mgm grand since its the biggest hotel in las vegas right know and will the edge be the biggest casino in the world

Bruce911
Jan 7, 2009, 11:53 PM
In that article about Edge, they say the First World Hotel is the largest in the world (and I say the ugliest) but the Venetian/Palazzo Megacenter™ actually has more rooms and floor area, and is still larger with its three towers than this new Edge proposal and its four towers.

Yes, but the Palazzo and the Venetian are two separate hotels, each with its own room count. They just happen to be side by side and owned by the same company. Same as Wynn and Encore, and same as Treasure Island and Mirage (before the recent sale), and same as Bally's and Paris, etc.

Aaron Auxier
Jan 8, 2009, 2:38 AM
Info on the Harmon Hotel construction delay and correction done at Veer.
(Still waiting on MGM/Mirage's decision)

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jan/07/builder-error-significant/

Aaron Auxier is in this article. Didn't a unit at Harmon sell for more than $2400 per sq. ft. last summer??

I had set the top-three residential price-per-foot records in the history of Nevada in this property (one was over $2,400 a foot). Obviously, those records now are no good, as the units will not close. I'm happy for my Harmon clients because MGM MIRAGE has stated they can get their deposits back.

From an emotional standpoint, today is the darkest day of my career and since the crash of the world (what else can we call it?). Forget about the commissions I lost today, I put my heart and soul into The Harmon and this hurt me in an emotional way. Again, I'm just glad that MGM MIRAGE has said my clients can get their deposits back :).

In an online term - I just got PWN3D (put in check). Most importantly, I've learned to not take things personal - it's just business. It happens.

Bottom line is this, the local and national media refuse to let me speak on air about the true number of residential high-rise condos on the Strip (which now is around just 1,300 with Mandarin, Veer, and Sky). So far, they have refused to let me share the difference in condotel numbers vs. residential.

I urge everyone who cares about the truth being reported to call the local and national media and tell them you want me on the air.

I am not saying all is perfect (sales are slow and people are scared)....

What I am saying is that the truth will only get reported when we as a community demand it.

As for me, I will continue to fight for Vegas and the truth.

lfc4life
Jan 8, 2009, 3:53 AM
Yes, but the Palazzo and the Venetian are two separate hotels, each with its own room count. They just happen to be side by side and owned by the same company. Same as Wynn and Encore, and same as Treasure Island and Mirage (before the recent sale), and same as Bally's and Paris, etc.

i disagree, palazzo is nothing but an extra tower of venetian alot like TheHotel was an extra tower of mandalay bay, ditto encore with wynn. when venetian originally opened in 1999 it was scheduled to be the worlds largest hotel with over 6500 rooms, it took adelson a few years but he got there

treasure island was a completely different hotel to mirage, different theme, different everything, casinos were also not connected in any way.

i don't know how anyone could compare paris/ballys to venetian/palazzo.

CHAPINM1
Jan 8, 2009, 4:05 AM
Where did you hear they are going to demolish anything?

Just an assumption... I'd figure if the project has construction flaws, especially flaws that would deem the building as unsafe, I'd figure it'd possibly have to be demolished.

ondarox
Jan 8, 2009, 4:15 AM
I urge everyone who cares about the truth being reported to call the local and national media and tell them you want me on the air.

I am not saying all is perfect (sales are slow and people are scared)....

What I am saying is that the truth will only get reported when we as a community demand it.

As for me, I will continue to fight for Vegas and the truth.

I'm all for it Aaron, you have my support! I was wondering how you felt about all of this turmoil and am sorry to hear how emotional this has been for you. Obviously you are an honest and courageous being- it takes a lot of courage to admit how you truly feel- especially over the internet to a bunch of otherwise strangers.

I am utterly confused (and disappointed) with all of these crappy news reports which spread rumors like herpes. It's almost like they are begging us to have a negative stance towards our future. It is time that we stop glorifying all of this sh*t journalism, and demand factual information. I'm sick of hearing polite conversation that we need "change." We need dollar bills, yo! Lots of them! It's time to get back to reality and block out this downward spiral.

Who else is tired of the rumor and panic that spreads like disease? Let's move on, move forward in a positive way and get ourselves out of this funk. C'mon America... we can do it- together. NOW!

Back to construction and the projects... I'm glad to see at least that there is an option for Buyers to purchase other units in the CityCenter complex. Options may be limited, but hey... there must be a little flexibility out there.

Really bummed to hear that the beautiful Harmon will end up looking a bit stumpy. I figure once it's capped there really is no chance of it looking anything like it was intended to. Same thing goes for St. Regis. Stumps are awkward.

mac78130
Jan 8, 2009, 4:56 AM
So that's the final height?
flickr photo by odessea
http://flickr.com/photos/dtutak/3175596020/


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/3175596020_544a081b12_b.jpg

CHAPINM1
Jan 8, 2009, 5:06 AM
I personally believe that St. Regis has a chance in the future of being completed. Also, the Harmon will look very strange if it is to remain where it is.

On a side note, are both the Veer Towers only a floor away each from topped out?

mdiederi
Jan 8, 2009, 5:09 AM
No stumps here!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Fontainebleau/FontFin2.jpg

sw5710
Jan 8, 2009, 5:33 AM
Just heard on klas tv las vegas that the Harmon will top out at 25 floors not 47 floors.

ondarox
Jan 8, 2009, 6:47 AM
No stumps here!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Fontainebleau/FontFin2.jpg

Mark-

Your photography completely amazes me! It always captures the drama and details that a lot of us crave on the forum. Thank you! Not to shoot anyone else down... I welcome and applaud all contributions! Thanks everyone!

Yes, I agree... no stumps at FBlue. And I continue to pray for no stumps at St. Regis, Echelon and most of all The Harmon. By the photo it looks like they're on floor #23- so two more floors wouldn't really pull The Harmon out of stump-dom. I wish I had some $$$ to fix it and make the project complete. I wonder what they can do with the remaining $123.76 left in my MGM Mirage stock. (Hahaha- that was a stupid joke, I know.)

CHAPINM1
Jan 8, 2009, 8:59 AM
Great morale booster with that side shot of the Font! How has work been progressing on the upper floors? Like Palms Place, I have a feeling that Fontainebleau will also be a mega Hollywood hangout!

sw5710
Jan 8, 2009, 9:16 AM
Great shot of Font!

Zach6668
Jan 8, 2009, 9:56 AM
I'm very disappointed about The Harmon. It was my favorite building in the City Center project.

I love the glass.

I'll be in Vegas next week, so I'm gonna get a first-hand look at the overall height. Hopefully it looks better in person than it does in the pictures. It looks so out of place as a stump.

:(

Aaron Auxier
Jan 8, 2009, 10:51 AM
I'm all for it Aaron, you have my support! I was wondering how you felt about all of this turmoil and am sorry to hear how emotional this has been for you. Obviously you are an honest and courageous being- it takes a lot of courage to admit how you truly feel- especially over the internet to a bunch of otherwise strangers.



Ondarox, I appreciate your kind words. Last year taught me many lessons about life. I've been humbled and I'm thankful for the experience. I have no problem sharing my personal story so it may be able to help someone else. I have been put in check, period.

Life is amazing. Tonight, a big client of mine invited me to a private event (and I usually never go out). Anyways, turns out, he invited me to personally introduce me to some of the biggest names in entertainment as "Hollywood's Connection to Vegas". Every single celebrity I met asked for my card. I mean, my day went from starting so low to ending so high.

What it all boils down to is, these are crazy times and to survive you have to have faith. The Harmon what? I'm over it after what happened tonight.

Let's move forward everyone. All the celebs I met tonight are now on my email list and all pretty much want real estate here. I have faith in our city - these people could care less about The Harmon or our silly Strip drama. They were like who cares? I want a home anyways.

mac78130
Jan 8, 2009, 2:54 PM
This is an article I found from Forbes... The article states that the Harmon condo's were not being built because of the "RECESSION". It never mentions anything about construction issues ?!? I swear, these reporters are driving me nuts!!

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/07/mgm-citycenter-closer-markets-equity-cx_mlm_0107markets42.html?partner=yahootix

mdiederi
Jan 8, 2009, 3:07 PM
How has work been progressing on the upper floors?
This and the side shot were both shot yesterday morning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Fontainebleau/FontFat.jpg

I'm starting to think that that upper glass really is just a shade darker.

mac78130
Jan 8, 2009, 3:13 PM
I'm starting to think that that upper glass really is just a shade darker.

I thought that too :shrug:

mac78130
Jan 8, 2009, 3:53 PM
Harmon could have been built up to 49 floors but MGM/Mirage decided it would be too costly. I still give kudos to MGM/Mirage for giving us a wonderful project

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jan/08/company-exec-says-scaling-down-most-logical-move/

Aaron Auxier
Jan 8, 2009, 5:58 PM
This is an article I found from Forbes... The article states that the Harmon condo's were not being built because of the "RECESSION". It never mentions anything about construction issues ?!? I swear, these reporters are driving me nuts!!

http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/07/mgm-citycenter-closer-markets-equity-cx_mlm_0107markets42.html?partner=yahootix

I emailed my source at Forbes and let them know. Let's see if it gets fixed.

Unreal, the local news media here has all turned down my request to tell the truth of the number of residential condos on the Strip. They do not care and say it's not relevant.

Zach6668
Jan 8, 2009, 6:01 PM
This and the side shot were both shot yesterday morning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Fontainebleau/FontFat.jpg

I'm starting to think that that upper glass really is just a shade darker.

I have a friend who was the structural engineer on this project, and while that obviously has nothing to do with the architecture, he assures me that there's only supposed to be the one shade of blue glass.

Take that fwiw.

mac78130
Jan 8, 2009, 6:10 PM
Unreal, the local news media here has all turned down my request to tell the truth of the number of residential condos on the Strip. They do not care and say it's not relevant.

All of us on this forum need to write to the Las Vegas news media and let them know we want to hear the truth and we want to hear it From Aaron !!

Bruce911
Jan 8, 2009, 6:41 PM
i disagree, palazzo is nothing but an extra tower of venetian alot like TheHotel was an extra tower of mandalay bay, ditto encore with wynn. when venetian originally opened in 1999 it was scheduled to be the worlds largest hotel with over 6500 rooms, it took adelson a few years but he got there

treasure island was a completely different hotel to mirage, different theme, different everything, casinos were also not connected in any way.

i don't know how anyone could compare paris/ballys to venetian/palazzo.

Disagreeing doesn't make it right. Adelson originally planned to expand the Venetian, and he did, with the Venezia Tower. But as to further expansion, according to the April 5, 2004, edition of Vegas4Visitors, "Venetian owner Sheldon Adelson originally planned to build a mirror image of The Venetian on the land just to the north of the hotel, just across from Treasure Island. Those 3,000 or so rooms would’ve been in an identical tower giving The Venetian over 7,000 total, besting the MGM Grand by a couple thousand or so. However now, Adelson plans to build a connected but totally separate resort called The Palazzo." And they have two different street addresses, separate web sites, and separate reservations numbers.

As far as "compare paris/ballys to venetian/palazzo" -- anyone with an iota of English comprehension would hopefully understand that the comparision was limited to what was stated -- "They just happen to be side by side and owned by the same company. Same as Wynn and Encore, and same as Treasure Island and Mirage (before the recent sale), and same as Bally's and Paris, etc." It was true when I wrote it, and it's still true now. Not opinion, but fact. Nothing was stated or implied about any comparison of "theme," or "not connected in any way" or quality, luxury, style, size, or anything else. Just "side by side" and "owned by the same company."

leftopolis
Jan 8, 2009, 6:46 PM
^
That angle(the first shot posted) makes F-Blu look so slender! It must be topped out by now, eh?

mdiederi
Jan 8, 2009, 7:16 PM
I have a friend who was the structural engineer on this project, and while that obviously has nothing to do with the architecture, he assures me that there's only supposed to be the one shade of blue glass.

Take that fwiw.
Sounds like a reliable source. Must just be different type of dust on the batch of glass up there. We'll know when they finally clean the glass.

lfc4life
Jan 8, 2009, 8:35 PM
As far as "compare paris/ballys to venetian/palazzo" -- anyone with an iota of English comprehension would hopefully understand that the comparision was limited to what was stated -- "They just happen to be side by side and owned by the same company. Same as Wynn and Encore, and same as Treasure Island and Mirage (before the recent sale), and same as Bally's and Paris, etc." It was true when I wrote it, and it's still true now. Not opinion, but fact. Nothing was stated or implied about any comparison of "theme," or "not connected in any way" or quality, luxury, style, size, or anything else. Just "side by side" and "owned by the same company."

you are getting caught up in the wynn/adelson spin :haha: had stardust had a big opening party for their highrise tower in 1991 and called it a separate resort you would have believed em i bet. a new resort sounds cooler and gets more press than a new hotel tower opening, wynn and adelson know this and have mastered this

believe whatever you want to believe, i for sure don't consider wynn/encore separate resorts, they are the same resort imo, for one how would wynn go about selling one, he couldn't he would have to sell both :P

ondarox
Jan 8, 2009, 9:53 PM
All of us on this forum need to write to the Las Vegas news media and let them know we want to hear the truth and we want to hear it From Aaron !!

EXACTLY! I'm not from the area, but would love for this to happen. Can anyone provide a list or contact infromation? It's time for some honesty and clarity to be given to those who are confused.

mdiederi
Jan 8, 2009, 11:07 PM
Didn't mean to ignite a flame war when I mentioned that the Venetian/Palazzo are part of the same complex, so I'll clarify my understanding of it. Although it is obvious that the Palazzo was designed to look and feel like a separate resort, the thing that distinguishes it as being of the same complex as the Venetian is that they both share a lot of the same back-of-house operations not visible to the public. Also, in the Las Vegas Sands 2007 Annual Report it says "With the opening of The Palazzo, our Las Vegas properties represent the world’s largest integrated resort with 7,093 suites..."
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=185629&p=irol-ReportsAnnual

CosmoVegas
Jan 9, 2009, 12:06 AM
So that's the final height?
flickr photo by odessea
http://flickr.com/photos/dtutak/3175596020/


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/3175596020_544a081b12_b.jpg




They are working on the tapered top of the Cosmopolitan's Beach Tower, it looks like only 2 or 3 more floors to go without the crown?/sign?/night club? at the top...what is at that at the top of Cosmo anyway?

Aaron Auxier
Jan 9, 2009, 1:14 AM
EXACTLY! I'm not from the area, but would love for this to happen. Can anyone provide a list or contact information? It's time for some honesty and clarity to be given to those who are confused.

Thanks everyone. I mean, it's gotten to the point of ridiculous. They will NOT let me report the true numbers of residential condos on the Strip.

While I will not give out any phone numbers, it's fairly easy to Google the news channels and newspapers in Las Vegas and let them know you want me on.

Krases
Jan 9, 2009, 2:46 AM
I heard on the news that Obama plans to double alternative energy as a part of the big main street stimulus package. They are already going to build a 600 million dollar wind instillation in northern Nevada, so its possible they might expand that even further.

I think the chances of Las Vegas being wind powered might just go up here soon in February if that stimulus package passes.