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jazfingr
Feb 12, 2009, 12:51 PM
Actually, looking at that photo, Fontainebleau only blocks the view of the ugly Riviera, Bally's and a bit of Paris above it. It would have blocked the view of WynnLV, but Encore covers it more (maybe this is why The Steve built it so close to the Strip). When you look at it, everything blocks something else. Caesars Augusta Tower blocks Bellagio, Wynn blocks Palazzo blocks Venetian blocks Harrah's, pHo blocks the angled west side of MGM and a good portion of Mandalay Bay, etc. etc.

So, I'm not in the hate-camp against the Fontainebleau. I love being up in a high-rise which is near other high-rises. Once this economic crap is behind us, and building starts again, you can expect more and taller structures in the Strat's neighborhood.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3349/3273988156_84b111d14b_o.jpg

Seva
Feb 12, 2009, 7:15 PM
Bleh, you can't have it all. You want tall skyscraper hotels, then something will be blocked. If you want more hotels but views, than the hotels will all have to be short.

And of course, the Strat is just one place to view the city. Hotels perpendicular to the strip like Palms or Rio have better views to the entire strip IMO.

What about newer resorts? From the Strat view, in 20 years time if the city has rebounded, that view would be filled up with the newest hotels, Echelon included. The south strip would be an afterthought.

I saw the so called "project final link" on the Jazfingr site, yeah someday if that will be filled with buildings, what a sight.

My prediction is, forget CityCenter, that's just there by itself wedged in the built up South Strip, the area around Fontainbleau, Sahara and Strat will be the place with the most dense, tallest towers in the future. Strat itself would look so much better with some nearby buildings to balance its height, like Seattle and the Space Needle.

As for those who insist on themed vs modern resorts being superior to the other, why must that be? You can have both. The themed resorts will still be there for anyone who visits, and the newer modern resorts arn't supposed to "replace" the older ones either, but compliment them.

My only issue may be that modern resorts here arn't being pushed far enough. You can have modern and outrageous as well. CityCenter is tame compared to something like the Marina Bay Sands resort in Singapore. Buildings like the CCTV tower in China are modern yet are simply stunning and eyecatching. We should have gotten those built here.

CHAPINM1
Feb 12, 2009, 7:46 PM
Last time I checked cities were not created for views. Also, Fontainebleau will offer magnificent view from itself as well! The Stratosphere will be to the north and the rest of the strip will be to the south. Not only that, but Fontainebleau also pays great homage to Las Vegas and an number of other project from within. The crown kind of resembles the stratosphere's cladding as well as Sky and the Turnberry Place Towers! It will be an exciting day once it's completely finished and the crown opens up to the public.

In time whether you may or may not like it, expecially if you live in Vegas, this tower will grow on you and become part of the rest of the strip that we all know and love.

CHAPINM1
Feb 12, 2009, 7:52 PM
Bleh, you can't have it all. You want tall skyscraper hotels, then something will be blocked. If you want more hotels but views, than the hotels will all have to be short.

And of course, the Strat is just one place to view the city. Hotels perpendicular to the strip like Palms or Rio have better views to the entire strip IMO.

What about newer resorts? From the Strat view, in 20 years time if the city has rebounded, that view would be filled up with the newest hotels, Echelon included. The south strip would be an afterthought.

I saw the so called "project final link" on the Jazfingr site, yeah someday if that will be filled with buildings, what a sight.

My prediction is, forget CityCenter, that's just there by itself wedged in the built up South Strip, the area around Fontainbleau, Sahara and Strat will be the place with the most dense, tallest towers in the future. Strat itself would look so much better with some nearby buildings to balance its height, like Seattle and the Space Needle.

As for those who insist on themed vs modern resorts being superior to the other, why must that be? You can have both. The themed resorts will still be there for anyone who visits, and the newer modern resorts arn't supposed to "replace" the older ones either, but compliment them.

My only issue may be that modern resorts here arn't being pushed far enough. You can have modern and outrageous as well. CityCenter is tame compared to something like the Marina Bay Sands resort in Singapore. Buildings like the CCTV tower in China are modern yet are simply stunning and eyecatching. We should have gotten those built here.

You definetly put it best...

DMaldon762
Feb 12, 2009, 8:12 PM
Made my own revision. I think it looks better than the stump. Basically a cap on the 28 stories but angled to work better with Crystals.

http://i40.tinypic.com/10fb6ms.jpg

I would like to see the cap kinda look like the Rio Masquerade Tower. Perhaps stepped backward or forward like Cosmo. Can someone mock that up for me?

lfc4life
Feb 12, 2009, 8:31 PM
As for those who insist on themed vs modern resorts being superior to the other, why must that be? You can have both. The themed resorts will still be there for anyone who visits, and the newer modern resorts arn't supposed to "replace" the older ones either, but compliment them.



i agree with everything apart from this, we could have had both but mgm decided against that :( i used to love the old treasure island, why bother going into the new one now that mgm turned it into a ordinary casino inside, ditto NYNY. sure we still have a few "themed resorts" left in town ie caesars and venetian but you can find them in AC and macau, why will tourists from china and the east coast hop on the plane to see the same resort as in their own backyard. treasure island, NYNY, luxor (whisper it quietly even excalibur) were unique to vegas in terms of themeing, now they are just shells

Seva
Feb 12, 2009, 9:18 PM
In time whether you may or may not like it, expecially if you live in Vegas, this tower will grow on you and become part of the rest of the strip that we all know and love.

Every cloud a silver lining?

I personally prefer towers to be lit up, maybe not as much as Palazzo (that thing is a lighthouse) but enough to see it. However from the few night renderings of the Font, it was lit up very dimly, maybe a few accent lights on the crown but that was it.

I thought maybe that was because of the condos part and people not wanting bright lights shining up at them. If they get rid of the condos now, I want more lighting on it. Why have a nice tower like this in Vegas and not light it up?

mac78130
Feb 12, 2009, 9:26 PM
Every cloud a silver lining?

I personally prefer towers to be lit up, maybe not as much as Palazzo (that thing is a lighthouse) but enough to see it. However from the few night renderings of the Font, it was lit up very dimly, maybe a few accent lights on the crown but that was it.

I thought maybe that was because of the condos part and people not wanting bright lights shining up at them. If they get rid of the condos now, I want more lighting on it. Why have a nice tower like this in Vegas and not light it up?

If I remember correctly (I could be mistaken) the Font. Tower will be covered with led lights that will change color, creating a cool light show. The MotorCity Casino has something similar.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/3034834507_7df87aac75.jpg?v=0
http://flickr.com/photos/32483579@N07/3034834507/

justdefended
Feb 12, 2009, 10:59 PM
I don't think Vegas will ever shy away from themes. It's a place where visitors are supposed to induldge in all different experiences in a fantasy playground.

To me, CityCenter is another theme - urban living. Here you have modern architecture, $40 million in artwork and sculptures, and a retail entertainment district to draw visitors in. It's just another completely different experience for visitors.

All the frontage for Crystals, Mandarin and Harmon is the same as placing a Lake Bellagio or Mirage Volcano in the front. It's not as blatantly flashy, but it's a show that people walk through, look at, and admire.

I think it's too early to judge how it looks because its cold and uninhabited. After the landscape and lighting, and of course people, are added, it'll take on a different view.

Krases
Feb 13, 2009, 12:50 AM
Wow, the 6,000th post....did I win?

Yes you won. Here is your prize. (http://unleashthefurybambi.ytmnd.com/)

Yeah that was random.

Buy anyway, what is "project final link" that I see on that there website of yours jazfignr? Its one of the advertisements I saw a while ago.

jazfingr
Feb 13, 2009, 3:24 AM
Project final link is just the name of a property assemblage. That firm is assembling all the properties around the Stratosphere and marketing it to major developers. Just like Project Neon lights where Pulse (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/pulse.htm) was supposed to go) and Southtech over by Panorama Towers. oh, and thanks for the random prize lol

jazfingr
Feb 13, 2009, 3:41 AM
Let's not for get LAS VEGAS | Boom Project Rundown! 1.0 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=50286) that Patrick started on Aug. 1st, 2004 with 3,170 posts. The skyscraperpage folks killed it 'cause it was too long for the old servers to handle. So, when you add them together, this is the -drum roll please- 9,183rd post. We need a prize at 10,000 (which will be post #6830).

jazfingr
Feb 13, 2009, 4:13 AM
I don't think Vegas will ever shy away from themes. It's a place where visitors are supposed to indulge in all different experiences in a fantasy playground.

To me, CityCenter is another theme - urban living. Here you have modern architecture, $40 million in artwork and sculptures, and a retail entertainment district to draw visitors in. It's just another completely different experience for visitors.

I couldn't agree more. CityCenter's theme IS Architecture & Modern Art and while most visitors won't realize it, they will certainly be agape by the spectacular and dynamic open spaces. I can't wait to see the Pelli casino in Aria. BTW, I don't think MGM was very thoughtful when they designed the Aria logo on to of the tower. From a distance it looks like it reads Ana...lol

Krases
Feb 13, 2009, 6:15 AM
Project final link is just the name of a property assemblage. That firm is assembling all the properties around the Stratosphere and marketing it to major developers. Just like Project Neon lights where Pulse (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/pulse.htm) was supposed to go) and Southtech over by Panorama Towers. oh, and thanks for the random prize lol

Your welcome :haha:

Oh I see now. So basically they buy up a lot of individual properties and combine them into one giant chunk o' land that can be sold as....a giant chunk of land. Some of those land plots are huge though and it would be cool to see what will become of them in the future.

Seva
Feb 13, 2009, 7:07 AM
If I remember correctly (I could be mistaken) the Font. Tower will be covered with led lights that will change color, creating a cool light show. The MotorCity Casino has something similar.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/3034834507_7df87aac75.jpg?v=0
http://flickr.com/photos/32483579@N07/3034834507/

That would be awesome to see, LEDs would fit in nicely with Font's atmosphere, they are shown to have a ton of LED screen on their podium.

I believe the recently opened Eastside Cannery uses them also.

Still not quite sure they'll be using leds on the entire Font tower, I would have noticed them installing it, the glass panes don't seem to leave any room for the lights to go.

All in all if they have the usual floodlights shining up with additional lights on the crown that would be enough for me. I don't ask for much, but only lighting the crown would be a letdown.

Took a random shot of CityCenter's backside, with Aria logo.
http://i42.tinypic.com/14aasm0.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/sq46bm.jpg

mac78130
Feb 13, 2009, 8:59 AM
That would be awesome to see, LEDs would fit in nicely with Font's atmosphere, they are shown to have a ton of LED screen on their podium.

I believe the recently opened Eastside Cannery uses them also.

Still not quite sure they'll be using leds on the entire Font tower, I would have noticed them installing it, the glass panes don't seem to leave any room for the lights to go.

All in all if they have the usual floodlights shining up with additional lights on the crown that would be enough for me. I don't ask for much, but only lighting the crown would be a letdown.



This is where I read about the LED lighting: http://www.vegastripping.com/news/news.php?news_id=2481 Maybe they are waiting to install all the windows before working on the lighting?

jazfingr
Feb 13, 2009, 9:17 AM
I would like to see the cap kinda look like the Rio Masquerade Tower. Perhaps stepped backward or forward like Cosmo. Can someone mock that up for me?

here's a quick mock-up

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3368/3275578471_a15856425f_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3275578415_d859c8fa02_o.jpg

CharoogAjram
Feb 13, 2009, 4:52 PM
^^ That actually looks nice!

justdefended
Feb 13, 2009, 6:04 PM
here's a quick mock-up

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3368/3275578471_a15856425f_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3275578415_d859c8fa02_o.jpg

Great work! Looks good!

justdefended
Feb 13, 2009, 6:57 PM
Here's some new information about Vdara via the CityCenter website:

Vdara Health & Beauty will be a 16,000 sq. ft. two-level spa, salon, and fitness facility.

Silk Road is the international restaurant headed by Martin Heierling of Sensi at Bellagio.

Bar Vdara is a lobby lounge that will offer morning espresso and late-night cocktails.

Sky Pool & Lounge atop the porte cochere will offer semi-private plunge pools and a bar and lounge open day and evening.

The Gourmet Grocer will offer a variety of produce and gourmet foods from around the world and to-go items like sandwiches, fresh salads, and pasta.

Sounds pretty full-featured. Having a small grocery store inside will let owners or guests to actually make some use of the kitchenette inside each unit. Also, having a night-time pool lounge is great since most are closed off in the evening.

mdiederi
Feb 14, 2009, 12:54 AM
I think Perini should pay to fix the Harmon problems and finish it to the original height.

CHAPINM1
Feb 14, 2009, 1:31 AM
I think Perini should pay to fix the Harmon problems and finish it to the original height.

I completely agree! I hope to see this project being built to undergo a vertical expantion sometime in the future.

mac78130
Feb 14, 2009, 2:06 AM
Interesting? Bankruptcy in the future?
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/13/harrahs-seeking-740-million-credit-line/

justdefended
Feb 14, 2009, 2:39 AM
I think Perini should pay to fix the Harmon problems and finish it to the original height.

That would be fantastic. No one could argue that in its original form the building would be spectacular. I really wouldn't mind if they just kept it under construction for as long as it took while the rest of CityCenter operated.

CosmoVegas
Feb 14, 2009, 5:06 AM
That would be fantastic. No one could argue that in its original form the building would be spectacular. I really wouldn't mind if they just kept it under construction for as long as it took while the rest of CityCenter operated.

It will never happen, MGM took this problem as a face (and money) saving blessing. Now they will go after Perini's insurance for back charges and most likely make a bigger profit than if they had finished it and sold the condos. They will redesign the Harmon and add those costs to the back charges as well. Perini and their insurance company will cast blame to get another insurance company involved too, probably the architects or engineers but who knows maybe even the re-bar supplier. The insurance companies will settle and make a big payment to MGM. Then, while we will look at the ugly stub and shake our heads, MGM's board will gaze at it with tears of joy in their eyes and big bullfrog smiles. This crap happens all the time in the construction business, usually to a much smaller scale, but it is extremely commonplace.:brickwall:

Krases
Feb 14, 2009, 5:45 AM
Yup. It really sucks.

It seems like the economy would really need to explode for enough interest to be generated to actually go in and fix the Harmon.

mac78130
Feb 14, 2009, 5:54 AM
Something about the black and white fascinates me
flickr photo by wilsonmatos (http://flickr.com/photos/willieps52/3278274106/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3411/3278274106_b8c0179b8a_b.jpg
After seeing the views from Cosmo. I'm really looking forward towards its opening
flick photo by wilsonmatos (http://flickr.com/photos/willieps52/3277167387/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3525/3277167387_87572a62e9_b.jpg

justdefended
Feb 14, 2009, 6:02 AM
It will never happen, MGM took this problem as a face (and money) saving blessing. Now they will go after Perini's insurance for back charges and most likely make a bigger profit than if they had finished it and sold the condos. They will redesign the Harmon and add those costs to the back charges as well. Perini and their insurance company will cast blame to get another insurance company involved too, probably the architects or engineers but who knows maybe even the re-bar supplier. The insurance companies will settle and make a big payment to MGM. Then, while we will look at the ugly stub and shake our heads, MGM's board will gaze at it with tears of joy in their eyes and big bullfrog smiles. This crap happens all the time in the construction business, usually to a much smaller scale, but it is extremely commonplace.:brickwall:

Nah, we weren't saying that MGM would do a 180 and fix the Harmon, just that the building would look incredible in its completed form.

As it is, its amazing that CityCenter is being fully completed. Six buildings in construction all at once in an economic climate full of cancelled and half complete products. We definitely won't see anything like this for at least 5+ years.

ieguy441
Feb 14, 2009, 7:12 AM
Even though the Harmon will be topped off at appx. 26 floors, (and don't hold your breath on Perini footing the bill for the fixes, IMO) would it be possible to add another 10-20 floors of an only glass facade with a re-bar frame work holding it in place atop the current structure? It could be similar to the curved glass treatment adorning the southern section of the Riviera, only atop a building. Could they basically extend the Harmon to close to its original height with a GIANT crown? The rumored next two floors to be built could be designed to hold this bit of extra weight... but still be lighter in weight than what was originally intended.. It could be lighted from within to look the same as the other 24-26 floors.

Thoughts???

(sorry if this doesn't make a lick of sense, I didn't get a heck of a lot of sleep last night)

Seva
Feb 14, 2009, 7:23 AM
Maybe but even if they could it'd still be a waste. And it would be an illusion and testament to failure, regardless of whose fault it was.

If I had my way I'd tear it down and start over, the architect certainly didn't expect to see his creation maimed like this. At the least reinforce the tower and finish it as planned.

If you can't do it right don't do it at all. There is no half dones or trys. What a joke.

mac78130
Feb 14, 2009, 7:34 AM
I agree with Seva, implode it and start over. No matter how hard they try to disguise it... it will always be a stump.

DMaldon762
Feb 14, 2009, 2:13 PM
here's a quick mock-up

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3368/3275578471_a15856425f_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3275578415_d859c8fa02_o.jpg

I love it. Perhaps the only thing I would change is to have the steps curved just like the building.

MGM, We Just Saved The Harmon!!! LOL:tup:

voice of reason
Feb 14, 2009, 5:20 PM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/14/robin-leach-others-sue-cosmopolitan/

CHAPINM1
Feb 14, 2009, 9:47 PM
I agree with Seva, implode it and start over. No matter how hard they try to disguise it... it will always be a stump.

That's what I've been hinting at. If they were to implode it, they could leave that parcel empty for future development that could possibly be bigger and better.

mac78130
Feb 15, 2009, 7:38 AM
Citycenter starting to receive notices from Clark county. From this article it seems Converse Consultants really suck and need to be kick out!
http://www.rgtonline.com/Article.cfm?ArticleId=83548&CategoryName=Business

DowntownGymRat
Feb 15, 2009, 2:38 PM
this pic is a couple of weeks old, but I thought still worth posting in my opinion. I think the coolest thing about this picture is the reflection of Wynn in Encore
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/spencerryan/DSCF4463.jpg

jazfingr
Feb 16, 2009, 12:40 AM
Well, with a little time and thought, with Dmaldon's suggestion, I improved the Harmon to what I think works quite nicely.
This was a fun challenge.

I'm working on a glass skinning for Planet Hollywood (currently the ugly painted old Aladdin)
I'm looking forward to showing it here and getting opinions and suggestions.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/3282747593_82e99201ed_o.jpg

mac78130
Feb 16, 2009, 1:05 AM
Well, with a little time and thought, I improved the Harmon to what I think works quite nicely.
This was a fun challenge.

I'm working on a glass skinning for Planet Hollywood (currently the ugly painted old Aladdin)
I'm looking forward to showing it here and getting opinions and suggestions.



That looks very cool :)

DMaldon762
Feb 16, 2009, 3:18 AM
Now that is what I am talking about!

Not so stumpy now. Just a thought. How about making that belt line on the pool level a rolling ticker? Like some of the buildings in Times Square. That would make it more "Vegas".

MGM needs to give us some credit for saving The Harmon!!!

DMaldon762
Feb 16, 2009, 3:26 AM
As for some PH re-skin suggestions...

Silver glass for main tower.
Blue glass the two towers that just out the front with red fins like the condo tower.

Or...remember that Maxim tower render? The red and white one? Like that!!!

jazfingr
Feb 16, 2009, 3:40 AM
As for some PH re-skin suggestions...

Silver glass for main tower.
Blue glass the two towers that just out the front with red fins like the condo tower.

What I'm doing for the PH is breaking the symmetry of the building. It's really an ugly shaped building, I'm not finished yet (working on recreating the existing podium...and it's a bitch), but I'll take a screen-shot now and let you see.

jazfingr
Feb 16, 2009, 5:19 AM
Ok, here it is...looking forward to your replies

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3284021766_9db13c7751_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3532/3283201291_19c67128e0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3283201343_c306b88e23_o.jpg

ieguy441
Feb 16, 2009, 6:04 AM
Mark,

I have always thought that Planet Hollywood would be great reskinned like the (fictional) Montecito Resort and Casino from NBC's now cancelled "Las Vegas". Add a nice glass facade, a fake waterfall in the center, some more LCDs, and there ya go...

I have actually done MANY different versions of PH with a reskinned tower, and I must say that I think it looks awful when modeled after the Westgate tower (the blue and red). I'd maybe model it after the glass and metal curtain facade of the MGM Grand Detroit (what a beautiful tower!)...

I'd maybe stay away from Red... but that's just my opinion.

ieguy441
Feb 16, 2009, 6:08 AM
Ok, here it is...looking forward to your replies

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3402/3284021766_9db13c7751_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3532/3283201291_19c67128e0_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3396/3283201343_c306b88e23_o.jpg
Mark (again!),


I love that render! With all the times I have messed around with that building in Sketch-up, I never can get it looking "right". I honestly just love this! What about the planet hollywood sign on top? would you keep it, or get rid of it? This really reminds me of some of the smaller boutique hotels that were proposed in the past few years ("W", Charlie Palmer, Hard Rock expansion.. etc).... and I love the fact that it doesnt look like anything from CityCenter (like that clone-ish Epicenter proposal for Harrah's Eastside... what a mess that was....)

I'd be real curious to see that render with a fake waterfall at the center... just a thought... It could soften up some of those lines perhaps? Maybe I can render this later if you are unable to.

justdefended
Feb 16, 2009, 6:51 AM
Nice job! PH would look much better in that skin. It still looks too Aladdin-y outside.

Recently walked into PH and they really did a phenomenal job with the place. It feels comfortable, hip, modern, and cool - a huge contrast to the mess it was before. Renaming the second level The Mezz, along with a listing of everything upstairs right at the escalators is great.

Of course, the fundamentals of the building structure, including registration at the lower level, north and south tower entrances that look exactly the same from any angle in the circular casino can't be helped, but it was a large feat to remodel the whole thing while keeping it in business.

Debby
Feb 16, 2009, 11:53 AM
That looks really just awesome!!
I mean it is not easy to stand out in Vegas, right?
There are so many amazing constructions and it is hard to be special there - great job :)

DMaldon762
Feb 16, 2009, 1:13 PM
I like the symmetry of the current building. But your concept is very nice, Mark.

Zach6668
Feb 16, 2009, 2:24 PM
Nice job! PH would look much better in that skin. It still looks too Aladdin-y outside.

Recently walked into PH and they really did a phenomenal job with the place. It feels comfortable, hip, modern, and cool - a huge contrast to the mess it was before. Renaming the second level The Mezz, along with a listing of everything upstairs right at the escalators is great.

Of course, the fundamentals of the building structure, including registration at the lower level, north and south tower entrances that look exactly the same from any angle in the circular casino can't be helped, but it was a large feat to remodel the whole thing while keeping it in business.

I agree. I really like the PH on the inside, at least. It's one of my favorite places to play, simply for the atmosphere. It's just too bad they ruined the poker room, replacing it with the high limit room.

I also like the strip-front facade of the podium levels, on PH.

=============

Also, Jaz, great work on the render, I like it a lot. I wish I had the sketch up skills to do something like that (or whatever other programs it used).

justdefended
Feb 16, 2009, 7:13 PM
CityCenter Work Often Precedes Approval Plans

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/16/citycenter-work-often-precedes-approval-plans/

Not surprised the city can't keep up with the pace that MGM needs to keep the project on schedule.

rabsca
Feb 17, 2009, 4:01 AM
Here is a link to the document.

http://www.filesavr.com/20090211filedclassactioncomplaint

or

http://www.directransfer.net/?directlink/1234936458/2009_02_11_(filed)_Class_Action_Complaint.pdf

Rab

voice of reason
Feb 17, 2009, 5:53 AM
Thanks for the court docs. Maybe that will force Cosmo to cancel the unworkable condo/tel format and just refund deposits. Nothing else is going to work in this economic climate.

True Blue
Feb 17, 2009, 8:02 AM
Rabsca, thanks for the copy of the lawsuit. In today's market, the condotel concept is dead. I don't understand why they don't see this. Most unit owners would not be able to secure financing and the Cosmo would then be an empty building. Other lawsuits would be flying everywhere. They would not be able to survive without people gambling, shopping and eating in the restaurants. Leasing out units like the Trump will not work as well. The Cosmo needs fresh bodies everyday to spend money inside the resort. Empty rooms don't pay the overhead.

I feel the best thing to do is refund all unit owners their deposits and try to sell the Cosmo to a large hotel chain. If they continue with this condotel concept, it'll be a total disaster. The powers that be need to wake up and realize this. They must be in fantasy land thinking the Cosmo will be different than everyone else.

Zach6668
Feb 17, 2009, 2:58 PM
Interesting article about the vacancy rates in some of the US's biggest metropolises, highlighted by Las Vegas.

http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/americas-emptiest-cities.html

tumbleweed
Feb 17, 2009, 11:03 PM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/17/company-puts-desert-blue-timeshare-project-hold/

I was wondering if they were ever going to press release this... I think it has really been on hold since sometime around November or December. The cranes have not been up and working since then and there is no activity there.

justdefended
Feb 18, 2009, 12:24 AM
Here is a link to the document.

http://www.filesavr.com/20090211filedclassactioncomplaint

or

http://www.directransfer.net/?directlink/1234936458/2009_02_11_(filed)_Class_Action_Complaint.pdf

Rab

Looks like Robin Leach is in on another similar suit against the Cosmo:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a8Igsdf7qmZo&refer=home

mac78130
Feb 18, 2009, 12:36 AM
I didn't realize the crown for the Cosmo Beach tower was going to be so huge.
flickr photo by aromaleigh (http://flickr.com/photos/22380416@N05/3288365668/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/3288365668_609b744075_b.jpg

DMaldon762
Feb 18, 2009, 1:02 AM
I tried to use that Google sketch up. Ugh!!! Not very easy.

WonderlandPark
Feb 18, 2009, 1:05 AM
Veer is shorter than I thought. Are they close to topping off Veer?

I always knew Cosmo was huge. The shops below are looking good.

Harmon looks sort of dumb that short. Oh well, maybe it should be dynamited?

mdiederi
Feb 18, 2009, 1:09 AM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/17/company-puts-desert-blue-timeshare-project-hold/

I was wondering if they were ever going to press release this... I think it has really been on hold since sometime around November or December. The cranes have not been up and working since then and there is no activity there.
The article says they finished the shell, but it's not even half height yet. :shrug:

Complex01
Feb 18, 2009, 2:46 AM
Wow that last pic was awesome. What a sight...

:tup:

mac78130
Feb 18, 2009, 3:58 AM
Veer is shorter than I thought. Are they close to topping off Veer?

I always knew Cosmo was huge. The shops below are looking good.

Harmon looks sort of dumb that short. Oh well, maybe it should be dynamited?

Veer West is already topped out, Veer East is working on the spa/pool level.

mac78130
Feb 18, 2009, 4:08 AM
The PH tower will have a great view of CityCenter
http://www.postranecky.com/index.html
http://www.postranecky.com/image/ph-towers-peak-10.jpg

CharoogAjram
Feb 18, 2009, 6:39 AM
I went to Vegas this past weekend and took some pics of CityCenter from the freeway.

I was actually quite disappointed how CC was taking over Monte Carlo literally and how it seemed kinda squeezed in.

Here are some pics below...
http://i40.tinypic.com/j0dt0g.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/hvz7dj.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/jqnvv6.jpg

And here is an okay pic of Comso.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2j17ozb.jpg

mac78130
Feb 18, 2009, 7:33 AM
"Las Vegas's status as a convention hotspot is suffering as companies shun it to avoid the appearance of holding decadent junkets amid a crippling recession.

In the past month, more than 30,000 hotel room nights booked for conventions and business meetings were canceled, costing the city an estimated $20 million in revenue, the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority said."

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20090217\ACQDJON200902172200DOWJONESDJONLINE000794.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Las%20Vegas%20Convention%20Business%20Gets%20Recession%20Blues

mac78130
Feb 18, 2009, 11:04 AM
The glass installation at FB seems to be taking forever:brickwall:
flickr photo by crystoforo (http://www.flickr.com/photos/crystoforo/3290068774/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3612/3290068774_edf1e3510c_b.jpg

ieguy441
Feb 18, 2009, 2:16 PM
Here's my version of PH.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3448/3289359923_35c88313fd_o.jpg

DMaldon762
Feb 18, 2009, 2:49 PM
I would like all the PH renders if the entire property wasn't such a mish mosh of styles. You have Miracle Mile with all these weird angles and cool orb covered facade. Then you have this HUGE condo tower with a red fin and outrageously bright signage. Then you have the hotel tower. I would like to see a common thread that links these all together. The most likely common thread i think would be RED. The mall has a lot of red signage and accents and the fin on the Condo tower is the buildings signature. The hotel tower should also tie in this color as well. MGM had killed the brown theme in almost every remodel of it's hotels (Mirage, Bellagio, Madalay, etc.). That is why I was suggesting the strong use of red. If i could figure out how to use that Sketch up....

Just my 2 cents.

http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/images/maxim%20rendering%201.jpg

RandalR
Feb 18, 2009, 3:29 PM
The glass installation at FB seems to be taking forever:brickwall:


Taken five minutes ago - they started the next layer this week. Only one more to go.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f245/RandalR/Las%20Vegas/Fontainebleau20090218.jpg

Krases
Feb 19, 2009, 12:15 AM
"Las Vegas's status as a convention hotspot is suffering as companies shun it to avoid the appearance of holding decadent junkets amid a crippling recession.

In the past month, more than 30,000 hotel room nights booked for conventions and business meetings were canceled, costing the city an estimated $20 million in revenue, the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority said."

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspxcontent/NewsStory.aspx?cpath=20090217\ACQDJON200902172200DOWJONESDJONLINE000794.htm&&mypage=newsheadlines&title=Las%20Vegas%20Convention%20Business%20Gets%20Recession%20Blues

Crap! It was because of Obama's comment about Las Vegas and bank conventions. I don't think he even realizes how badly he screwed us over by saying that.

vegasrain84
Feb 19, 2009, 1:41 AM
Crap! It was because of Obama's comment about Las Vegas and bank conventions. I don't think he even realizes how badly he screwed us over by saying that.

CAN WE PLEASE LEAVE POLITICS OUT OF THE BOARD DISCUSSION! We all have strong opinions about who is to blame for the mess we're in. But could we just get back to talking about buildings/construction/projects.

I'm really frustrated with this particular board when I come to find info and updates of projects only to find someone talking about Obama/Pelosi/Reid.

Every time I come to this board I find myself ticked off by political commentary.

This board has Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Apolitical members, so can we just talk about what is going on with projects, deal with the facts as they are, not the facts as we see them?

Krases
Feb 19, 2009, 1:59 AM
CAN WE PLEASE LEAVE POLITICS OUT OF THE BOARD DISCUSSION! We all have strong opinions about who is to blame for the mess we're in. But could we just get back to talking about buildings/construction/projects.

I'm really frustrated with this particular board when I come to find info and updates of projects only to find someone talking about Obama/Pelosi/Reid.

Every time I come to this board I find myself ticked off by political commentary.

This board has Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians and Apolitical members, so can we just talk about what is going on with projects, deal with the facts as they are, not the facts as we see them?

Yeah your right. Its just frustrating that one thing after another comes up that seems to hurt this city in some way.

In other more positive news: Cleavland clinic is going to run the Ruvo brain institute. AWESOME.

vegasrain84
Feb 19, 2009, 2:01 AM
I think if engineers could find a way to bring Harmon to 30 floors, and add on a 2 floor glass facade on the top much like the Panorama Towers bringing Harmon to nearly 32 floors, Harmon would look better. A 6 floor addition would take it from Stump to moderate sized tower, slightly shorter than the VEER Towers.

Harmon does have the advantage of being narrow instead of having a large base making it appear taller. I don't know if they could do it in a way that would keep it structurally sound, but I hope they try.

I think one thing they could do is to increase the ceiling height on the upper floors to reduce the weight of the structure. Turn them into penthouses. So then you have the increase in height, and high ceilings. A win win situation.

vegasrain84
Feb 19, 2009, 2:18 AM
Yeah your right. Its just frustrating that one thing after another comes up that seems to hurt this city in some way.

In other more positive news: Cleavland clinic is going to run the Ruvo brain institute. AWESOME.


I think that's good news for Lou Ruvo. Speaking of projects, I hope that the controversial MagLev Train between LA and Vegas is constructed with that 8 Billion set aside for high speed trains. That would be a great project to watch being built, and hopefully will bring in more Californians to Vegas on weekends. My understanding is that it would take less than an hour to go between both cities, at about 300 MPH. Also, a lot of Las Vegans will probably love going to SoCal as well. It certainly would be nice to not have to drive on I15 through San Bernardino (no offense).

mac78130
Feb 19, 2009, 2:20 AM
I think if engineers could find a way to bring Harmon to 30 floors, and add on a 2 floor glass facade on the top much like the Panorama Towers bringing Harmon to nearly 32 floors, Harmon would look better. A 6 floor addition would take it from Stump to moderate sized tower, slightly shorter than the VEER Towers.

Harmon does have the advantage of being narrow instead of having a large base making it appear taller. I don't know if they could do it in a way that would keep it structurally sound, but I hope they try.

I think one thing they could do is to increase the ceiling height on the upper floors to reduce the weight of the structure. Turn them into penthouses. So then you have the increase in height, and high ceilings. A win win situation.

A lot of articles state that the Harmon is to be capped off at 28 floors. Right now it sits at 23 floors. So if 5 floors are indeed constructed and they make penthouse floors and then add a "crown" similar to what was done to the Mandarin, I think it will turn out alright.

Veerish
Feb 19, 2009, 4:14 AM
I'm not sure if you all want any news from a CityCenter buyer in this forum, but I just got an email from MGMGrand announcing they will be taking reservations for Aria starting February 23rd, for opening in December. No specific opening date was included.

mdiederi
Feb 19, 2009, 6:06 AM
No specific opening date
December 16, 2009

mac78130
Feb 19, 2009, 8:55 AM
I'm not sure if you all want any news from a CityCenter buyer in this forum, but I just got an email from MGMGrand announcing they will be taking reservations for Aria starting February 23rd, for opening in December. No specific opening date was included.

I think I posted this at the end of last month http://www.travelagentcentral.com/usa-las-vegas/aria-resort-casino-begins-accepting-reservations-february-23-12421

mac78130
Feb 19, 2009, 10:57 AM
Last crane at PH tower coming down
Let's see if the second tower ever gets built?
flickr photo by camerainhand/Larry Boswell (http://flickr.com/photos/camerainhand/3292366634/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3292366634_ae02e17e82.jpg?v=0

neworleans
Feb 19, 2009, 5:04 PM
does anyone know if they're going to finish putting the fins behind the Aria signs?

CosmoVegas
Feb 19, 2009, 5:50 PM
Last crane at PH tower coming down
Let's see if the second tower ever gets built?
flickr photo by camerainhand/Larry Boswell (http://flickr.com/photos/camerainhand/3292366634/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3644/3292366634_ae02e17e82.jpg?v=0

Nice picture, simple but I feel like I'm there.

VegasMatt
Feb 19, 2009, 9:16 PM
Here are two stories on Las Vegas architecture:

http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/2009/feb/19/impossible-dream/

http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/news/2009/feb/19/making-designs-vegas/

Enjoy...

voice of reason
Feb 19, 2009, 9:55 PM
Here is a link to the document.

http://www.filesavr.com/20090211filedclassactioncomplaint

or

http://www.directransfer.net/?directlink/1234936458/2009_02_11_(filed)_Class_Action_Complaint.pdf

Rab


Here is a link to a group who also has a class action suit against Duetsche Bank. They have 130 plaintiffs vs. 3 for Robin Leach group.

http://cosmopolitanownerslv.com/index.php

Krases
Feb 20, 2009, 12:15 AM
Let's see if the second tower ever gets built?
[/IMG]

An answer that can be applied to a lot of new projects:

"Not in this economy".

mac78130
Feb 20, 2009, 12:28 AM
What a view
flickr photo by Purdey 2000 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/purdey2000/3294153850/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3411/3294153850_881f9f87a4_o.jpg

WonderlandPark
Feb 20, 2009, 3:29 AM
I was at HR a month ago, and that great pool area was closed. :(.

That view is from the original tower elevators, anyone can take it up and see this view. The windows were filthy, so I never bothered shooting pics.

rabsca
Feb 20, 2009, 5:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabsca View Post
Here is a link to the document.

http://www.filesavr.com/20090211file...ctioncomplaint

or

http://www.directransfer.net/?direct..._Complaint.pdf

Rab

Here is a link to a group who also has a class action suit against Duetsche Bank. They have 130 plaintiffs vs. 3 for Robin Leach group.

http://cosmopolitanownerslv.com/index.php





Yes and I think they have almost 150 plaintiffs now, and they haven't even hit the press yet.

DowntownGymRat
Feb 20, 2009, 9:37 AM
WOW!!! That other tower for Hard Rock went up FAST!!!! Geez, it seems like skyscrapers here in L.A. take over a month to move up one flippin floor

mac78130
Feb 20, 2009, 11:19 AM
A panoramic view from PH tower. A great photo once again by postranecky (http://www.postranecky.com/) who is an architect working on the ph tower
http://www.postranecky.com/image/city-center-pano-2.jpg

justdefended
Feb 20, 2009, 9:41 PM
A panoramic view from PH tower. A great photo once again by postranecky (http://www.postranecky.com/) who is an architect working on the ph tower
http://www.postranecky.com/image/city-center-pano-2.jpg

Thanks. What an amazing shot. Looks very close to the initial renderings that MGM Mirage released back in the day...with the exception of Harmon of course.

However, with five more stories a crown it will look MUCH better.

mac78130
Feb 21, 2009, 2:06 AM
I hope Fontainebleau proves this article wrong. I really like how this project is turning out.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/20/sp-fontainebleau-could-have-trouble-making-payment/

CHAPINM1
Feb 21, 2009, 2:45 AM
I hope Fontainebleau proves this article wrong. I really like how this project is turning out.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/20/sp-fontainebleau-could-have-trouble-making-payment/

It's one of the best projects that has ever gone up in Vegas so far! I'm grateful that construction is topped out though and that it was built to its full height. Also, eventually things will turn around so I'm not worried.

CHAPINM1
Feb 21, 2009, 2:49 AM
Regarding Harmon, it's definetly an itch that I cannot scratch. I wish they'd just implode what's there now and crack at a fresh start all over again once the economy rebounds which could mean possibly building something that would match up to what the original height was supposed to be. I'd rather have a project take time to get done to ensure that there are absolutely no flaws as opposed to totally screwing up like they did in this instance.

Zach6668
Feb 21, 2009, 3:21 AM
Regarding Harmon, it's definetly an itch that I cannot scratch. I wish they'd just implode what's there now and crack at a fresh start all over again once the economy rebounds which could mean possibly building something that would match up to what the original height was supposed to be. I'd rather have a project take time to get done to ensure that there are absolutely no flaws as opposed to totally screwing up like they did in this instance.

Wouldn't this cost bundles of money that MGM (or anyone, these days) simply doesn't have?

I'm certain implosions are not free.

voice of reason
Feb 21, 2009, 5:02 AM
MGM is going to be barely able to finish the project. They had to sell TI, in case no one noticed. There is not a gaming company in Vegas that is not in financial straits, this isnt a Monopoly game, this is for real. It is good that serious people are running these companies and not the goof-balls that comment.

voice of reason
Feb 21, 2009, 5:32 AM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/20/sp-fontainebleau-could-have-trouble-making-payment/

More bad news.

neworleans
Feb 21, 2009, 7:28 AM
why would anybody even think that they should tear down the harmon.

I'm not sure how much they've spent on it so far, but probably over a hundred million dollars.
For those of you who think they should implode it, why don't you through away a hundred million of your dollars. And yes, that is a lot of money to them too. (sorry for being harsh, just trying to get my point across)

mac78130
Feb 21, 2009, 7:29 AM
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/20/sp-fontainebleau-could-have-trouble-making-payment/

More bad news.

HEY A GOOF-BALL ALREADY POSTED THIS !!! SCROLL UP :previous: !! :haha:

mac78130
Feb 21, 2009, 11:05 AM
Opening at 10 pm, March 1st :cheers:
Great photos with article:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/21/m-resort-next-line-marnell-family/

CHAPINM1
Feb 21, 2009, 6:09 PM
It creeps me out about the Harmon. I wouldn't feel comfortable being in a building that I knew had flaws.

koval95
Feb 21, 2009, 6:40 PM
Nice! didnt expect such great highrise buildings from Vegas!