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CHAPINM1
May 22, 2009, 9:39 PM
Well its going to be a LOOOOOOONG time. How I hope they do it is that they won't try putting another city around it. Instead I would like to see it become a stop on a high speed rail service. They should completely prevent anything from being built around it and just link it straight to Las Vegas. That would also allow the airport to expand even further in the future without worry of needing to demolish existing buildings.

Well in the meantime with the current expansion of Maccarran allow for more long range/international flights until Ivanpah eventually opens? Will their be new runways capable of handling larger 747 aircraft as well as the A-380? I know that the current Maccarran runways are currently capable of only handling a limited size of aircraft if I'm not mistaken.

Krases
May 22, 2009, 9:52 PM
Well in the meantime with the current expansion of Maccarran allow for more long range/international flights until Ivanpah eventually opens? Will their be new runways capable of handling larger 747 aircraft as well as the A-380? I know that the current Maccarran runways are currently capable of only handling a limited size of aircraft if I'm not mistaken.

Well I know it can take a 747, but I am not sure about A-380's. The real problem is that its reaching its total capacity of jets that can take off and land safely. A new runway would cost billions because buildings are built right up to the runways and some people think it would be a waste of space.


Plus there is always the idea that McCarren could be removed if Ivanpah was built big enough. A lot of new Strip front property would be freed up and the FAA height limits would go way up in some areas.

mdiederi
May 22, 2009, 10:05 PM
There are zero plans to ever eliminate LAS. IVP will handle all of the largest crafts, but it's supplemental to LAS and most of the freight and long international flights will go out there.

I have a thread about IVP over at SSC (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=464416). Not much news lately. Still waiting for the results of the environmental impact study which takes several years to complete.

Krases
May 22, 2009, 11:30 PM
There are zero plans to ever eliminate LAS. IVP will handle all of the largest crafts, but it's supplemental to LAS and most of the freight and long international flights will go out there.

I have a thread about IVP over at SSC (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=464416). Not much news lately. Still waiting for the results of the environmental impact study which takes several years to complete.

I think we already had this discussion 50 pages ago. While its true that LAS will be around for a long while, you never know what might happen 30-40 years down the road. Especially if Vegas ever becomes a mega city or if new rules on urban sprawl limit growth down to just the Las Vegas valley. That would make the sheer amount of land LAS sits on very attractive.

CHAPINM1
May 22, 2009, 11:43 PM
I think we already had this discussion 50 pages ago. While its true that LAS will be around for a long while, you never know what might happen 30-40 years down the road. Especially if Vegas ever becomes a mega city or if new rules on urban sprawl limit growth down to just the Las Vegas valley. That would make the sheer amount of land LAS sits on very attractive.

That's definetly happening more and more so everyday with the downtown area and what's north of the Stratosphere.

Patrick
May 22, 2009, 11:51 PM
So they reclad the Golden Nugget it seems, boy dose it look, awful. :shrug:

CHAPINM1
May 22, 2009, 11:58 PM
So they reclad the Golden Nugget it seems, boy dose it look, awful. :shrug:

It's definetly nothing special, I will say that... However; what is the comparason before and after the recladding?

leftopolis
May 23, 2009, 12:29 AM
I think we already had this discussion 50 pages ago. While its true that LAS will be around for a long while, you never know what might happen 30-40 years down the road. Especially if Vegas ever becomes a mega city or if new rules on urban sprawl limit growth down to just the Las Vegas valley. That would make the sheer amount of land LAS sits on very attractive.

Even if Vegas continued to grow rapidly for the next 30-40 years...that wouldn't effect closing the current convenient airport. There are several much larger cities than Vegas, that have airports limiting building hights to a greater degree than LV: San Jose=300', Phoenix and San Diego are in the 500' range. LV has taller buildings already, and it's 1/2 to only 1/3 of the population of the 3 other cities mentioned. There is no need--in our lifetimes--to consider closing the airport due to bulilding hight restrictions. Furthermore, they didn't spend all that $$ on the final expansion, just to shut it down in a few decades, and numerous of tall buildings have been approved and not built.

Seva
May 23, 2009, 12:34 AM
McCarran can't handle the new Airbuses, terminals would have to be redesigned completely and runways widened (impossible) because the A380's wings are too wide for them. IVP is therefore planned to accommodate them.

I probably have to bit different view about McCarran being right in the middle of the city as a good thing, less time in transit for the tourists. Build the airport monorail and funnel it directly into Citycenter even. Many major city airports are so far out there tourists who fly hours to get here shouldn't have to wait another 30 - 60mins even on a train to get into a hotel. And the nice city views you get flying in.

Many cities build a 2nd airport but keep the first anyway regardless of needed space - ie Tokyo.

Also for the land wouldn't the logical thing be that if there is less land due to McCarran and the growth boundary, it will force the city to become more dense in order to maintain growth. In a way LV is destined to become denser than the other southwest cities that had no growth sprawl restrictions. If by megacity we are to sprawl to Phoenix's or LA's extremes I personally wouldn't want to see that. Skyscrapers shouldn't just be built to have a nice skyline but also because they will be truly necessary. In any event it means more skyscrapers so it's win-win for us.

Ok the only thing is that heights are affected but I think since the Strat was built, within the city limits they could still build some supertalls around 300 - 400m or so. Scatter around them a bunch of 150 - 200m tall high rise apartments (maybe a few condos but not too many) to add affordable housing to the population. My assumption is still to have the future city's core to be centered around the stratosphere area. Thus Fontainebleau's importance as the first building there can be seen.

It's probably best to leave the ridiculously tall towers to Dubai and others. While impressive, they are not practical financially or functionally. You additionally would need more than one to avoid a Taipei effect (really tall building surrounded by nothing). A few standard height supertalls and lots of mid height towers will be more than enough to boost the population, create a well rounded skyline and be a "megacity." Remember, buildings themselves don't make a city, people do.

Patrick
May 23, 2009, 5:40 AM
It's definetly nothing special, I will say that... However; what is the comparason before and after the recladding?

It wasn't anything special before, but In my opinion, it looked classier. The darker bands under the actual windows also seemed to make the building look taller.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/132894466_e307eb6e51.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_and_mary/132894466/

DMaldon762
May 23, 2009, 9:50 PM
Ceasars new tower looks done.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/8478/23699097.jpg

mdiederi
May 24, 2009, 3:09 AM
Ruvo cladding. Very similar to the Crystal's cladding. Titanium?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/Gehry/RuvoClad.jpg

mac78130
May 24, 2009, 4:03 AM
flickr photo by micurs (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90454544@N00/3557522687/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3624/3557522687_2caeea28f0_b.jpg

flickr photo by micurs (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90454544@N00/3557519001/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3625/3557519001_7a25786a94_b.jpg

mdiederi
May 24, 2009, 7:09 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/skyline-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/GN-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/WMC2-1.jpg

leftopolis
May 24, 2009, 11:46 PM
Harmon looks great in the pic posted by mac78130! Sure, for those of us "in the know", the shorter-than-originally-designed version, is disappointing. That information aside, it doesn't look out of place as too short. I actually prefer the varying hights, compared to a cluster of nearly uniform hight. And the glass on it is fantastic. It looks to be more or less topped out, eh? Anybody else notice that from the angle in that pic--the visible non-glass portion of "The Crystals" is shaped like a (lucky) 7!

mdiederi:
Great shots, as always. Titanium is a common material for the uncommon architect F.G. To my recollection, it is being used on Ruvo. Incidently, I highly recomend the Ghery/Sidney Pollack documentary...I rented it a few months back and watched it 3 days in a row!

BTW, can you help out this non-local, and clarify for me what the Hazel/Black structure is(in the last pic you posted)? is that the newest addition to WMC, or?

RandalR
May 25, 2009, 12:52 AM
I know that the current Maccarran runways are currently capable of only handling a limited size of aircraft if I'm not mistaken.

McCarran's main east-west runways are 12,000+ feet long and can handle anything - a Virgin Atlantic 747-400 comes in from London Gatwick every day. The gates at many American airports aren't spaced widely enough to handle the A380, though, and I'm sure McCarran's older international terminal is no exception.

There aren't many A380s in service yet, though, and it's unlikely we'll ever see them used for Las Vegas runs by the Asian airlines who are buying them. Asiana and Korean Airlines both operate 777s to Las Vegas and Philippine Airlines uses the smaller A340.

mdiederi
May 25, 2009, 2:54 AM
mdiederi:
Great shots, as always. Titanium is a common material for the uncommon architect F.G. To my recollection, it is being used on Ruvo. Incidently, I highly recomend the Ghery/Sidney Pollack documentary...I rented it a few months back and watched it 3 days in a row!

BTW, can you help out this non-local, and clarify for me what the Hazel/Black structure is(in the last pic you posted)? is that the newest addition to WMC, or?
Yeah, WMC building B on the left, building C on the right, and the 13-level skywalk connecting them. I posted that picture in the skywalk thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=166660&page=4) and waiting to see if anybody can find a skywalk with more levels.

I've seen that documentary. There's an artist friend of Gehry talking on there named Charles (Chuck) Arnoldi. I have a large diptych by him in my collection.

justdefended
May 27, 2009, 5:58 AM
New York Times article on CityCenter

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/27/realestate/commercial/27vegas.html?ref=business


Unsold Vdara units will be used for the 54,000 nights that have been booked at the property prior to owner closings.

THe Harmon is not part of the current $8.5B budget. It will cost another $200 million which will be shared by MGM and Dubai.

mdiederi
May 27, 2009, 8:20 AM
So if you're buying a new unit at Vdara you're actually going to get a used property?

justdefended
May 27, 2009, 5:07 PM
So if you're buying a new unit at Vdara you're actually going to get a used property?

I'm guessing the units that are under contract will be still be new. All other units would have to be sold as used, unless MGM absorbs the inventory.

I don't know how they're going to close new units if buyers know that "used" units could be available months after.

True Blue
May 27, 2009, 5:40 PM
I don't know how anyone is going to close any units anywhere without lenders lending for these kinds of products. The only ones that could close would be all cash buyers. Don't these developers understand that without available financing for condo/hotels, very few people would be able to close. This will result in an empty building with class action lawsuits from buyers that have to walk away.

ScottG
May 27, 2009, 7:33 PM
as if the westgate towers sign was not making an impact at night - - - the red fin that jets out has two parrellel red led strips of light running along the edges....

tumbleweed
May 27, 2009, 11:59 PM
I'm guessing the units that are under contract will be still be new. All other units would have to be sold as used, unless MGM absorbs the inventory.

I don't know how they're going to close new units if buyers know that "used" units could be available months after.

so just because it is used it makes it worth less? It's not a car, it's real estate. maybe they could sell them for more than the used ones if the economy rebounds and the property is successful!?

ScottG
May 28, 2009, 3:35 PM
world jewlery center official onhold....
(has any project ever survived the 'on hold' burial?)


http://www.lvrj.com/business/46354782.html

World Jewelry Center on hold

Big plans for jewelers in Las Vegas on ice in tough economy

By BENJAMIN SPILLMAN
LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL

Jeweler Michael Beaudry of Los Angeles shows a multicolored diamond mesh bracelet during a visit to the Wynn Las Vegas on Wednesday.
Photo by Craig L. Moran.

The 2-million-square foot World Jewelry Center is losing some sparkle.

The project, which was scheduled to start construction in 2009, is on hold. Developers have also abandoned an idea to include upscale residential condos in the project.



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"We've cut back substantially on our plans at this point," Robert Zarnegin, principal and developer of the World Jewelry Center project, said Wednesday.

Zarnegin said he doesn't know when the project will be revived.

"The status is that we intend to move forward with the project when the economic climate is back in order," he said. "It would be imprudent for anyone to guesstimate when the world will become more clear."

The World Jewelry Center proposal calls for a tower that would be home to jewelry makers as well as office condos, restaurants and offices. The center is in the plans for the Symphony Park development, a 61-acre master-planned project downtown that includes a concert hall, brain research center and proposals for hotels, casinos and residential and office developments.

He hopes to have new agreements with the city to extend the project timeline within six months.

But with plans for the World Jewelry Center on hold, is there still room for luxury in a postbling world? That's the question Michael Beaudry is asking as he unpacks millions of dollars worth of jewelry in a villa at Wynn Las Vegas.

Beaudry, a jewelry designer and manufacturer, is one of hundreds of luxury jewel and watch specialists in Las Vegas this week.

"Even the superwealthy are on the fence," said Beaudry, displaying custom-made rings and bracelets that can cost nearly $1 million. "They are in wealth-preservation mode."

Beaudry is displaying his collection, made in a style he calls "new vintage," at Wynn Las Vegas as part of Couture 2009, a trade show for luxury jewelry makers and buyers scheduled to run today through Tuesday.

Across the street at The Venetian and the Las Vegas Sands and Convention Center, JCK Las Vegas, a larger jewelry show, is scheduled to start Saturday.

Beaudry expects to walk as many as 100 potential customers through the latest editions to his extensive collection, although at the price point where Beaudry, who started his company in 1984 and recently introduced a line of Swiss-made watches, says turning a showing into a sale can sometimes take years even in good times.

And lately, it's getting harder to move such high-end merchandise.

Everyone from Wall Street traders to corporate CEOs to hip-hop artists are getting by on less money these days -- or at least appearing to do so.

The rise of faux jewelry is even causing a stir in the hip-hop world, with writers and rival artists trying to call out rappers they think are posing with fake ice.

"The day of conspicuous consumption is gone," Tamara Connor, stylist to rap stars and women's fashion magazines, recently told the urban fashion magazine SoJones. "We're still going to see some bling, but it's just not going to be as much. Instead of four diamond necklaces, it might just be a diamond bracelet, and it's a piece the celebrity wears all the time. They're not changing their jewelry out every day."

Beaudry says he's cut a roster of about 100 craftsmen and women he had on board during the economy's peak by two-thirds.

But he's hopeful the industry may rebound and possibly bring some new jobs to Las Vegas.

"The consensus is we've seen the worst of it, but when will things come back?" he says.

If the World Jewelry Center does get back on track, it would mean thousands of construction jobs in the short-term and the potential for hundreds of skilled-labor jobs that jewelry-makers such as Beaudry would import if they moved to the center.

"I think it would take some time to get that community built," says Beaudry of getting a critical mass of industry people that could make a World Jewelry Center functional.

But he said Nevada, with lower taxes and labor costs than jewelers face in Los Angeles, would be worth the investment if developers can deliver a facility.

"You have an ideal infrastructure," Beaudry said.

DrT
May 28, 2009, 5:25 PM
so just because it is used it makes it worth less? It's not a car, it's real estate. maybe they could sell them for more than the used ones if the economy rebounds and the property is successful!?

If I buy a new unit for personal use, I want new, I don't want a nasty carpet and a scratched kitchen counter, and would be willing to pay a premium for that. If I want used, I would wait for a re-sale, which in this market, is guaranteed to be less than the current contract holders paid. In a world of ever escalating prices, a condo is "an investment". In a world of stable prices, condos depreciate from wear and tear, and, are, like a car, a consumer item. The IRS allows depreciation on real estate, recognizing this fact.

True Blue
May 28, 2009, 6:01 PM
I think MGM will rent out unsold units because they have to. Hardly any possible Condo owner will not be able to pay cash in full because financing a condo/hotel unit today does not exist. If MGM does not rent out unsold units, then they'll have an empty building like the Trump Tower is today. I think MGM will rent out unsold units for 7 to 10 years, or until the market is hot once again. Then they'll gut the interior and make it look new. That way they'll sell a newly designed unit at a high market price.

Krases
May 28, 2009, 9:08 PM
Bah I saw this coming, the world jewelry center on hold.

Still makes me rage slightly. I hope they don't cut the towers height when they do proceed with construction.

I think MGM will rent out unsold units because they have to. Hardly any possible Condo owner will not be able to pay cash in full because financing a condo/hotel unit today does not exist. If MGM does not rent out unsold units, then they'll have an empty building like the Trump Tower is today. I think MGM will rent out unsold units for 7 to 10 years, or until the market is hot once again. Then they'll gut the interior and make it look new. That way they'll sell a newly designed unit at a high market price.

My problem is this: why are apartment towers non-existent in Vegas? I guess condo's are better for second residences.

CHAPINM1
May 28, 2009, 9:18 PM
I'd rather see the WJC not built at all as opposed to cut in height. Save the space for a developer who has the balls to still build a 800+ foot project there that it is zoned for.

CHAPINM1
May 28, 2009, 10:45 PM
My problem is this: why are apartment towers non-existent in Vegas? I guess condo's are better for second residences.

I've stressed that time and time again! I also wonder why, hell, when I move to Vegas I'd hope to see some highrise apartments built so I can move into one of them.

Krases
May 28, 2009, 11:21 PM
I've stressed that time and time again! I also wonder why, hell, when I move to Vegas I'd hope to see some highrise apartments built so I can move into one of them.

Just so long as they are competitive with the strip when it comes to aesthetic quality, I would be happy to see apartments.

leftopolis
May 28, 2009, 11:37 PM
If I buy a new unit for personal use, I want new, I don't want a nasty carpet and a scratched kitchen counter, and would be willing to pay a premium for that. If I want used, I would wait for a re-sale, which in this market, is guaranteed to be less than the current contract holders paid. In a world of ever escalating prices, a condo is "an investment". In a world of stable prices, condos depreciate from wear and tear, and, are, like a car, a consumer item. The IRS allows depreciation on real estate, recognizing this fact.

Just an opinion...but I hardly think that's how it would work. Once the building opens, units that are not sold--will be rented short/long term. If a buyer shows up for such a unit--aside from the price being reduced--I'd fully expect them to put in brand new "guts", such as flooring, carpeting, counter-tops... It's quite common for buyers to personalize luxury condos, with flooring, counters, etc...of their own chosing. I wouldn't expect it to be any different even if the place had been rented out for a while.

CHAPINM1
May 29, 2009, 1:24 AM
Just so long as they are competitive with the strip when it comes to aesthetic quality, I would be happy to see apartments.

I agree, they'd have to be luxury/high standard highrise apartments. I picture something like Sky, except with rentals not condos and with the same regulations.

voice of reason
May 29, 2009, 2:38 AM
Just an opinion...but I hardly think that's how it would work. Once the building opens, units that are not sold--will be rented short/long term. If a buyer shows up for such a unit--aside from the price being reduced--I'd fully expect them to put in brand new "guts", such as flooring, carpeting, counter-tops... It's quite common for buyers to personalize luxury condos, with flooring, counters, etc...of their own chosing. I wouldn't expect it to be any different even if the place had been rented out for a while.

In the Vdara, which is scheduled to be a condo/hotel, no changes to decore or any aspect of the appointments can be made by its owner. They are glorified hotel rooms and must remain standardized. It is all neatly laid out in the fine points of the contract.

Seva
May 29, 2009, 4:52 AM
Google Earth was updated again recently, but not for the better. Someone did the Palazzo finally but then there are these...

Never saw where this hotel warped in from... It's not even a proposal I've ever heard about before. Called "Heatherland Las Vegas"
http://i43.tinypic.com/xp7olf.jpg

Wynn accidentally ordered an additional Encore.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2ze05zt.jpg

I know Trump likes to tower over his competition but this is a bit too much for him.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2ekp6c2.jpg

Sky, well it looks rather different.
http://i41.tinypic.com/t8lsu9.jpg

And the MGM Signature thing still isn't fixed.

CosmoVegas
May 29, 2009, 5:17 AM
FYI, sounds like cold feet to me but who knows maybe they are just holding out for a killer deal;
http://www.lvrj.com/blogs/stutz/Penn_National_may_hold_off_on_Strip_deal_until_2010.html

voice of reason
May 29, 2009, 5:04 PM
http://www.lvrj.com/business/46453612.html

Palms Place is offering buyers seller financing in order to close some sales of condo/hotels. A price re-negotiation along with financing would be a better plan if they want to move any serious numbers of units.

If Palms Places plan doesnt bear fruit, maybe MGM and Deutsche Bank will come to their senses and realize that nobody is buying condo/hotels and just go the hotel route instead.

solarboy
May 29, 2009, 9:49 PM
http://www.gamingtoday.com/industry-news/story.bv?storyid=21587

More bad news for Fontainebleau.

Patrick
May 30, 2009, 5:24 AM
Google Earth was updated again recently, but not for the better. Someone did the Palazzo finally but then there are these...

Never saw where this hotel warped in from... It's not even a proposal I've ever heard about before. Called "Heatherland Las Vegas"
http://i43.tinypic.com/xp7olf.jpg

Are they serious? Wow. The Heatherland Las Vegas is just a scaled version of one of my Phoenix models with a base. Have you contacted them about these fake hotels?

jazfingr
May 30, 2009, 12:29 PM
:previous:

I contacted google yesterday and offered to help fix it. I hope they get back to me.

Seva
May 30, 2009, 4:21 PM
Are they serious? Wow. The Heatherland Las Vegas is just a scaled version of one of my Phoenix models with a base. Have you contacted them about these fake hotels?

That is indeed crazy. I don't really know how the google model submissions process works or I would have done it already.


Photos I took.

My favorite view of Font. It always looks huge from this viewpoint.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2n65atw.jpg

Ruvo/WMC at sunset. Looks like it's being built on the bridge...
http://i42.tinypic.com/xcm83m.jpg

mac78130
May 31, 2009, 8:47 AM
Looks like Veer East will get its lobby glass first. It's hard to tell, but it looks like column forms have been put into place on the top floor of the Harmon. Maybe vertical construction resuming???

flickr photo by Dédélagodasse (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dedelagodasse/3579342295/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2311/3579342295_ff29e11aac_b.jpg

mac78130
Jun 1, 2009, 10:17 AM
flickr photo by Kanniff (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kentierney/3584215888/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2438/3584215888_54ed4c6070_b.jpg

heyyoucharlie
Jun 1, 2009, 2:58 PM
Great picture:previous:

What it doesn't show it the facade is now being installed along the main wall that faces I-15. Visual finishing work has really started to move faster the last month or so.

mac78130
Jun 1, 2009, 11:26 PM
flickr photo by jackdeuce (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jackdeuce/3583169407/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3375/3583169407_a8bcfaabe6_b.jpg

flickr photo by jackdeuce (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jackdeuce/3583179403/)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/3583179403_8ac9da848b_b.jpg

mdiederi
Jun 3, 2009, 4:01 AM
My last Vegas photo taken as a resident. I'm moving to Topanga. :yes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/LVSkylineNorth.jpg

Krases
Jun 3, 2009, 6:26 AM
My last Vegas photo taken as a resident. I'm moving to Topanga. :yes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/LVSkylineNorth.jpg

Wry are you leaving us mdiederi? Wrrrryyyyy!!!

jazfingr
Jun 3, 2009, 6:42 AM
:previous:

Well, we will miss your good-eye, Mark.

I am finally moving to Vegas in about a month, I will be mark's unofficial replacement. I plan to be very photo-active.

heyyoucharlie
Jun 3, 2009, 6:51 AM
Mark, Vegas and all of us will miss your amazing pictures.

Best of luck in Topanga

Krases
Jun 3, 2009, 4:39 PM
:previous:

Well, we will miss your good-eye, Mark.

I am finally moving to Vegas in about a month, I will be mark's unofficial replacement. I plan to be very photo-active.

I thought you already lived here?

Well VTaT can only get better with you actually on the ground, snapping pics. Cool!

Zach6668
Jun 3, 2009, 4:42 PM
Damn, mdiederi, I'll miss your pictures.

Good to see Jaz moving to Vegas though, to replace him. :)

DrT
Jun 3, 2009, 6:46 PM
My last Vegas photo taken as a resident. I'm moving to Topanga. :yes:

You'll be sorely missed.
Can we look for you in the LA threads?

CHAPINM1
Jun 3, 2009, 10:52 PM
Mark, you were a legend in the Las Vegas thread and brought some of the best photos and unbelievable panorama's! We can never have too many photographers in this great thread and this will be a huge loss.

mdiederi
Jun 3, 2009, 10:53 PM
Thanks. :cheers: I'll be back to Vegas from time to time and keeping up on the news and post if I have anything worthwhile.

I remember jazfingr saying quite a while ago that he was thinking of moving to Vegas. Should be great for his site. :tup: Funny we would be moving in the opposite direction at the same time.

Let's see if anyone will top my number of posts in the Vegas thread. :notacrook: My money's on mac78130, he's come up the list real fast in the past year with all his flickr references, but ScottG has been holding on to second place for a long time. :whip:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/Posts.jpg


Yes DrT, I intend to shoot LA and post in the threads regularly, but so far I'm getting up to speed by focusing on all the cool old buildings, something Vegas lacks. :cool:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/LosAngeles.jpg
Los Angeles Theater, designed by S. Charles Lee and S. Tilden Norton, opened in 1931 on Broadway.

Here's another parting shot from a couple weeks ago. :eek: Proof it gets real hot in Vegas :hell: :haha:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/carfire1.jpg

mac78130
Jun 3, 2009, 11:44 PM
Mdiederi, you and your photos will be missed.:cheers:

leftopolis
Jun 3, 2009, 11:50 PM
Wow...that's some parting shot! Your Vegas photos will be miissed. I don't want to get too off topic here, but you'll probably appreciate the Wiltern Theatre--unusual name, 'til you realize it's on the corner of Willshire and Western. Also, from 1931, art deco, and fully restored in 1985. I saw a performance of The Jerry Garcia Band there, back in 1987. The inside is most spectacular: From http://web.madritel.es/personales3/canetor/Wiltern3.gif
http://web.madritel.es/personales3/canetor/Wiltern3.gif

mdiederi
Jun 4, 2009, 12:28 AM
I've driven past the Wiltern. Can't wait to see the insides of more of those old theaters.

CHAPINM1
Jun 4, 2009, 12:35 AM
Has their been any word on Allure II? I know the economy is questionable, but I'm still curious.

mdiederi
Jun 4, 2009, 12:44 AM
I'm still in town and saw a sign saying they're still trying to sell units in the first Allure tower at new lower prices. So the next tower is probably still on hold.

Did see a new crawler crane over at the Smith Center site, however, and the pile drivers are still there, so that might actually start.

CHAPINM1
Jun 4, 2009, 1:34 AM
I'm still in town and saw a sign saying they're still trying to sell units in the first Allure tower at new lower prices. So the next tower is probably still on hold.

Did see a new crawler crane over at the Smith Center site, however, and the pile drivers are still there, so that might actually start.

What are the details on the Smith Center site project? I've never heard of that one.

Krases
Jun 4, 2009, 1:51 AM
What are the details on the Smith Center site project? I've never heard of that one.

Check out the Symphony park thread.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=169490

It has some info on it. Its basically a quarter billion dollar performing arts center that is receiving a lot of public funding. It will serve as a major part of the new downtown and will be a major attempt at bringing new higher culture to Vegas.

CHAPINM1
Jun 4, 2009, 2:05 AM
Another development proposal I am pumped about in Symphony park that I really hope happens is the 592 foot/47 floor hotel I forget the name of. It kinda resembles a sale boat fin on the upper 2/3rds and is all glass facade. Not only does it look decient (can't go wrong with glass), but it will also add height and more density north of the Stratosphere, but it will also give the much hoped for WJC some company as well.

leftopolis
Jun 4, 2009, 2:49 AM
It really is phenomenal how young a city Las Vegas is. It's not news to any of the posters here, but I thought I'd post some of the historical population figures (which would explain why LA has cool buildings from the '30s, but not LV. Sure, Boston puts just about every US city to shame, when it comes to historical buildings...but for one of the present day largest cities in the West...it was a small town just 2 generations ago:

Clark County (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_County,_Nevada)

Historical populations
Census Pop.
1910 3,321
1920 4,859
1930 8,532
1940 16,414
1950 48,289
1960 127,016
1970 273,288
1980 463,087
1990 741,459
2000 1,375,765


Las Vegas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas,_Nevada#cite_note-15)

Historical populations
Census Pop.
1900 25
1910 945
1920 2,304
1930 5,165
1940 8,422
1950 24,624
1960 64,405
1970 125,787
1980 164,674
1990 258,295
2000 478,434


Official 2008 Estimates - Nevada State Demographer (http://www.nsbdc.org/what/data_statistics/demographer/pubs/pop_increase/)

Clark County 1,967,716
Las Vegas 593,528

I think I read somewhere that Clark County is now past 2M and LV is past 600K...Maybe from the LV or CC site?

mac78130
Jun 4, 2009, 2:36 PM
VegasRex has a few photos of CityCenter and F'Bleau
http://www.vegasrex.com/2009/06/03/city-center-and-fin-blue-updates/

http://www.vegasrex.com/newsimages/citycenter154.jpg

ScottG
Jun 4, 2009, 4:29 PM
I think I read somewhere that Clark County is now past 2M and LV is past 600K...Maybe from the LV or CC site?

in 07 or 08 maybe - the las vegas metropolitan area (las vegas, north las vegas, henderson, paradise, and spring valley, green valley and summerlin) hit the 2 million mark.

when we think of 'vegas' we think of everything from sunrise mountain to redrock, but census go by the city lines which for the actual city of 'las vegas' consists of most the southern strip, airport, and nearby neighborhoods.
so the 600,000 population in the year 2000 is a little wrong - it was close to 1.8mil.

ScottG
Jun 4, 2009, 4:32 PM
last night the news announced that the owners of the trop submitted a request to the county to completly renovate the property with A MIAMI ART DECO MOTIFF. all new casino, exterior, tower (facades) it said something about 1,800 hotel rooms ---im guessing thats how many they have now. im not sure if they planned to add more, it said the renovation would cost $100 mil.

sounds promising!

leftopolis
Jun 4, 2009, 7:29 PM
in 07 or 08 maybe - the las vegas metropolitan area (las vegas, north las vegas, henderson, paradise, and spring valley, green valley and summerlin) hit the 2 million mark.

when we think of 'vegas' we think of everything from sunrise mountain to redrock, but census go by the city lines which for the actual city of 'las vegas' consists of most the southern strip, airport, and nearby neighborhoods.
so the 600,000 population in the year 2000 is a little wrong - it was close to 1.8mil.

I'm a little confused by what you're saying. There's the City of Las Vegas and the metro--which is made up of Clark County. Most of the strip is within Clark County(I believe the city border is around the Strat.).

Here's a more complete list from the State Demographer(link in previous post):

Clark County 1,967,716
Cities
Boulder City 16,684
Henderson
269,538
Las Vegas 593,528
Mesquite 19,754
North Las Vegas 214,661
Unincorporated towns
Bunkerville 1,160
Enterprise 149,713
Indian Springs 1,488
Laughlin 8,761
Moapa 998
Moapa Valley 7,134
Mt. Charleston 1,118
Paradise 182,264
Searchlight 750
Spring Valley 176,910
Summerlin 27,992
Sunrise Manor 185,745
Whitney 36,164
Winchester 37,14

The numbers are for 2008...not sure when 2009 comes out. I just thought I'd seen some more recent and specific numbers for 2009, from either The City of Las Vegas(puitting themselves past 600K) or Clark County(LV metro--putting themselves past 2M).

JDRCRASH
Jun 4, 2009, 8:22 PM
Yes DrT, I intend to shoot LA and post in the threads regularly, but so far I'm getting up to speed by focusing on all the cool old buildings, something Vegas lacks. :cool:

mdiederi, I look forward to seeing your wonderful work in the LA threads!:tup:

heyyoucharlie
Jun 4, 2009, 8:24 PM
For those interested in the exact city boundaries:

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u270/heyyoucharlie/lvboundaries.jpg
Found pic here:http://www.city-data.com/forum/las-vegas/487978-boundaries-map-las-vegas-north-las.html

leftopolis
Jun 4, 2009, 11:40 PM
Ah, here's what I was lookinng for. From the official City of Las Vegas - Demographics (http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/FactsStatistics/demographics.htm) site:


City of Las Vegas - 603,093
Clark County - 1,996,542


*As far as I can tell, these are the most up to date figures.

jayguy
Jun 5, 2009, 4:18 PM
What I find interesting is that all that gray area between the yellow "City of Las Vegas" and the blue "Henderson" is still considered Las Vegas. I've had a couple of addresses in that area. But I wonder if thats counted as "Las Vegas" or "Clark County" in the census.

Krases
Jun 5, 2009, 4:30 PM
What I find interesting is that all that gray area between the yellow "City of Las Vegas" and the blue "Henderson" is still considered Las Vegas. I've had a couple of addresses in that area. But I wonder if thats counted as "Las Vegas" or "Clark County" in the census.

It is really odd. You would expect the strip to actually be a part of the city but its really not. I don't know what the benefits of this system are.

mac78130
Jun 5, 2009, 4:45 PM
I'm assuming that the glass is being added to Aria's porte cochere. Kind of reminds me of a spider web.:cool:
http://www.citycenter.com/vision/vision_construction.aspx
http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh359/mac78130/ccportecochere.jpg

http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh359/mac78130/ccrendering.jpg

jazfingr
Jun 5, 2009, 8:06 PM
What I find interesting is that all that gray area between the yellow "City of Las Vegas" and the blue "Henderson" is still considered Las Vegas. I've had a couple of addresses in that area. But I wonder if thats counted as "Las Vegas" or "Clark County" in the census.

The grey area is counted as county.

leftopolis
Jun 5, 2009, 10:41 PM
Jazfingr is being modest and honorable by not pointing out the fine maps on his site. This one:
Area Map from VTAT (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/areamap.htm) - gives a color coded view of Las Vegas, North LV and Henderson city limits vs those of Clark County. His other maps are worth checking out for those of you who haven't or need a refresher (even the whimsical one's!).

To get it straight from the source:

Official City of Las Vegas Maps - including Las Vegas Valley Metropolitan Area (http://www.lasvegasnevada.gov/Publications/maps.asp?id=4516#) - They're also color coded!

There are a number of pockets of county or unincorporated land, which are already surrounded by Las Vegas city limits. As Las Vegas matures, I'd imagine there's be a plan to incorporate those into the city, if there isn't such a plan already. If anybody knows of such annexation plans, I'd be curious to know.

San Jose is wrapping up a 3 year plan of doing so--most of the parcels were under 50 acres(some significantly so), and in fact about 50% of last year's population growth, was due to these little annexations which didn't involve sprawling out, but filling in.

In the case of Las Vegas, a couple of the enveloped county/unicorporated area, look fairly large. Based on density and the degree of mid-rise housing starting to sprout-up DT, I'd say it's at that point of maturation of a city which would want to consolidate such areas. Las Vegas (city) density, is already higher than half of the ten largest cties in the US: Houston, Phoenix, San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas

mdiederi
Jun 5, 2009, 11:12 PM
I don't know what the benefits of this system are.
Taxes. The resorts don't want to pay city taxes and the county doesn't want to give up what they are making off the resorts. The county government is much richer than the city government as a result. The city and county police departments are combined, however.

mac78130
Jun 6, 2009, 2:13 AM
Now that the Elvis themed casino is dead, lenders are trying to take over the real estate. Would the land become more valuable once CityCenter opens?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/05/elvis-themed-casino-out-lenders-want-strip-propert/

mdiederi
Jun 6, 2009, 5:20 AM
My favorite Vegas neon sign.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/Smokin.jpg

Krases
Jun 6, 2009, 7:05 AM
Now that the Elvis themed casino is dead, lenders are trying to take over the real estate. Would the land become more valuable once CityCenter opens?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/05/elvis-themed-casino-out-lenders-want-strip-propert/

Anyone have a map that shows the size of the lot? 17.7 is no much, but then again the Cosmo is only on around 9 acres of land, so a ton could be done with it.

worldpool
Jun 6, 2009, 7:16 AM
look at this lol www.crapsonline.org/news/24/1/186/MGM-Mirage-And-Disney-Coming-Together-For-New-Las-Vegas-Casino.html

worldpool
Jun 6, 2009, 7:17 AM
its about disney and mgm mirage

vwwolfe
Jun 6, 2009, 8:34 PM
Disclaimer: All news articles published on this online craps site are spoofs, parody, or satire. None of the information contained in these articles should be taken seriously.

I really hope you didn't take this seriously.

worldpool
Jun 6, 2009, 8:57 PM
I really hope you didn't take this seriously. i thought it was funny i dident take it seriously i wanted to show you how dum the news can be.

Krases
Jun 6, 2009, 10:37 PM
*facepalm*

Moving right along- North Las Vegas is getting a new city hall? Anyone got some renders?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/04/north-las-vegas-breaks-ground-new-city-hall/

EDIT: WHAT THE !?@%$ WAS THAT? A fighter jet just buzzed my house! Did anyone else hear it? God it was flying low or at least I think it did seeing as it scared the s- out of me and almost hurt my ears.

leftopolis
Jun 7, 2009, 12:01 AM
Moving right along- North Las Vegas is getting a new city hall? Anyone got some renders?

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/04/north-las-vegas-breaks-ground-new-city-hall/


Good find! and to answer your question, here's another one:

From: Officials Break Ground For New City Hall and Civic Plaza - City Of North Las Vegas Website (http://www.cityofnorthlasvegas.com/BantamFE/Entry.aspx?entryId=2071&folder=2009&departmentId=-1)

At the bottom of that page is a hotlink to pdf downloads entitled:

New City Hall images:
City Hall Image
City Hall Rendering Image


The $142 million project will be built on a 12-acre site. It will replace the existing City Hall at 2200 Civic Center Drive with a proposed 210,400 square-foot, 9-story building designed to consolidate municipal services and support the City’s growth in upcoming years.

The project is expected to be complete by October 2011.

The new City Hall will be a cornerstone of the City’s downtown redevelopment and will include a Civic Plaza, funded in part by the Bureau of Land Management. The Civic Plaza will consist of an open-air amphitheater and will be a focal point for special events. The new City Hall will provide a single-stop shop for development and permitting services. It will feature a 3,000 square-foot retail component. The City is pursuing financial and food services for that space to enhance the City Hall experience for people conducting business with the City.

The new City Hall building is expected to achieve Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Silver Certification, becoming City’s first LEED Certified building...

CHAPINM1
Jun 7, 2009, 12:51 AM
It definetly appears that as the valuable land continues to stretch north, especially north of the Stratosphere, overall northern Las Vegas into North Las Vegas seem to be showing signs of serious improvement.

Krases
Jun 7, 2009, 1:57 AM
I hope that little grass field out in front is actually used for something.

I always wonder what the city hall would be like if the entire Vegas valley was incorporated into one giant city. I would imagine it would be huge if it was all one building.

mac78130
Jun 7, 2009, 2:42 AM
An older photo added to Aria's website shows the impressive size of Aria. A short video of Cesar Pelli has been added..
http://arialasvegas.com/about-aria/
http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh359/mac78130/Construction-04-28-09.jpg

leftopolis
Jun 7, 2009, 8:30 AM
I hope that little grass field out in front is actually used for something.

Yeah, the City website says:

The Civic Plaza will consist of an open-air amphitheater and will be a focal point for special events.

...whatever that means. In the render it merely looks like a big, flat grassy area. At least now we also know it's done by Denver's Fentress Architects(according to the pdf). I suppose they're competent--having done the Denver Airport. Although I didn't dig how on a 3 hour stopover I had to go take the underground trolley, back and forth to another building to have a bite to eat, and another underground trolley to get to yet another part of the airport to continue my trip. Furthermore, isn't the airport 30 miles from DT? I guess Fentess Architects specializes in sprawlburbia projects.

I've got mixed feelings. On the one hand, a new 9 story city hall building broke ground in a suburb. That's great news anywhere in the US, but perhaps moreso in The Las Vegas Valley, it being one of the areas that took a big hit in the real estate gut. Having said that, when it comes to city hall buildings, it looks both unmodern and untraditional, but kinda 1970s. I don't care for the idea of half the lot being used for parking, nor the way it's focused exclusively for people who would get there using a car. It's kind of surprising in a Silver LEED building, and if you're going for 9 stories, go for modern and urbanish. Once they've started the groundbreaking, there usually aren't too many changes trhat can be expected.

CONative
Jun 7, 2009, 2:36 PM
Yeah, the City website says:

...whatever that means. In the render it merely looks like a big, flat grassy area. At least now we also know it's done by Denver's Fentress Architects(according to the pdf). I suppose they're competent--having done the Denver Airport. Although I didn't dig how on a 3 hour stopover I had to go take the underground trolley, back and forth to another building to have a bite to eat, and another underground trolley to get to yet another part of the airport to continue my trip. Furthermore, isn't the airport 30 miles from DT? I guess Fentess Architects specializes in sprawlburbia projects.

I've got mixed feelings. On the one hand, a new 9 story city hall building broke ground in a suburb. That's great news anywhere in the US, but perhaps moreso in The Las Vegas Valley, it being one of the areas that took a big hit in the real estate gut. Having said that, when it comes to city hall buildings, it looks both unmodern and untraditional, but kinda 1970s. I don't care for the idea of half the lot being used for parking, nor the way it's focused exclusively for people who would get there using a car. It's kind of surprising in a Silver LEED building, and if you're going for 9 stories, go for modern and urbanish. Once they've started the groundbreaking, there usually aren't too many changes trhat can be expected.

Denver International is 23 driving miles from downtown (less in "fly over" miles), and it's just a little further than DFW is from downtown Dallas and Houston-Bush is from downtown Houston. DIA will soon have a light rail line that will quickly move passengers from the airport to downtown Denver and many other areas of Denver metro (120+ miles of approved light rail in the coming years). The "sprawlburbia" comment regarding our airport is ridiculous. Citizens of Denver voted for a new aiport years ago due to adjacent neighborhood complaints (houses were right next to the airport) and lack of expansion options for a very busy airport. Obviously when you vote and build for an entirely NEW airport, you have to build it somewhere. The land where the old Stapleton airport was...is now a world-renown and international award winning new-urban community (where I also live). It currently has 8500 residents in a mixed-use, dense and walkable community - with many large parks, shops, a plethora of architectural home styles for residents of different incomes. As Stapleton is more developed, it will become more dense and that is part of the master plan. The redevelopment of Stapleton will have 30,000 residents and 30,000 workers when complete - with 4 walkable town centers and neighborhood shops from residents homes, offices, commercial buildings, a light rail station, and a variety of other uses. So, the move was a smart and "un-sprawl" like move.

DIA is now one of the most successful aiports in the world and the largest in the U.S. (2nd largest in the world). It's America's greenest airport - with solar power fields on site and many other green aspects. It's the world's 10th busiest (5th by passenger plane movements). It has the capacity to expand to over 100 million passengers and many more runways (it already has 6 runways and america's longest commercial runway for jumbo planes). DIA generates a lot of money for the city of Denver, and we wouldn't have all of that extra revenue without the new airport. You don't need to take the underground train at Denver to get food. Every concourse and the terminal has a variety of restaurants in it (including many non-chain restaurants). That's the same as saying you need to take the Las Vegas people mover train from Concourse C or D to get food in the terminal. A very large airport is bound to have the need to take people movers or trains to get to other large concourses, so it's simply a fact of earthly life if you needed to take a quick train to connect to another flight at a large airport (especially if it's another airline - since DIA almost always has all flights for the same airline on the same concourse).

leftopolis
Jun 7, 2009, 4:20 PM
Uh......meanwhile, back in the Las Vegas area, Henderson may be getting a new science museum. I'm curious about the "mixed-use" component, since it mentions condominiums.

Henderson Space and Science Center (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/07/vote-spend-millions-museum-expected-tuesday/)

...Henderson plans to spend $61 million to build the science museum on a 150-acre city-owned site along the east side of U.S. 95, between Sunset and Russell roads.

The museum would be part of a mixed-use development that could include other museums, retail stores and condominiums.

The total cost of the development could be $250 million. However, the only city-funded project would be the museum....

mac78130
Jun 8, 2009, 1:39 PM
F'bleau not expected to open in October. Didn't see that coming :rolleyes:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/08/fontainebleaus-outlook-slides-bad-worse/

Krases
Jun 8, 2009, 9:29 PM
Uh......meanwhile, back in the Las Vegas area, Henderson may be getting a new science museum. I'm curious about the "mixed-use" component, since it mentions condominiums.

Henderson Space and Science Center (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/07/vote-spend-millions-museum-expected-tuesday/)

61 million doesn't impress me compared to many other projects. But this city needs all the museums it can get!

mac78130
Jun 9, 2009, 2:55 AM
flickr photo by traceyk15 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26179297@N00/3608600515/in/photostream/)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3608600515_0431d6dea2_b.jpg

leftopolis
Jun 9, 2009, 3:05 AM
61 million doesn't impress me compared to many other projects. But this city needs all the museums it can get!
Considering all the half-built-shells-of-buildings being left to deteriorate throughout The Valley, currently...I'm impressed.
It's not on The Strip or in Las Vegas, where one would expect the spendy projects, but in a suburb. 61M for the museum, isn't the whole story, that's why I quoted this part:
The museum would be part of a mixed-use development that could include other museums, retail stores and condominiums.

The total cost of the development could be $250 million. However, the only city-funded project would be the museum....

leftopolis
Jun 9, 2009, 3:10 AM
Wow...that arch of the bridge is progressing nicely! At the rate it's been going, it might meet/join within a month.

CosmoVegas
Jun 10, 2009, 3:18 AM
WOW....so shocked, Fontainbleau files chapter 11
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090609006442&newsLang=en

Krases
Jun 10, 2009, 3:53 AM
WOW....so shocked, Fontainbleau files chapter 11
http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090609006442&newsLang=en

At least they are not liquidating. It really seems like they were dealt a rotten hand. Who are there creditors? The banks that cut them off at the last minute?

CTLV
Jun 10, 2009, 2:38 PM
At least they are not liquidating. It really seems like they were dealt a rotten hand. Who are there creditors? The banks that cut them off at the last minute?

Anyone have any updates on the cosomo? Are they currently working only on the retail portion? :shrug:

RandalR
Jun 10, 2009, 4:26 PM
At least they are not liquidating. It really seems like they were dealt a rotten hand.

Tremendous cost overruns - they dealt themselves a rotten hand by not managing the project properly. And the design and scope is flawed - FB is far too large for its site. If they had designed something half the size it would be open and probably cash-flow positive by now. As it is, FB could be standing there 70% finished for the next decade. Like that "ghost hotel" in Pyongyang.

I've been critical of the ugly design of the new Plaza, but at least El Ad was smart enough not to start something they had no hope of finishing.

CosmoVegas
Jun 10, 2009, 4:29 PM
Anyone have any updates on the cosomo? Are they currently working only on the retail portion? :shrug:

The crawler cranes are moving around all day and there are workers on the job but I have not seen visible progress in at least 60 days. Perhaps a lot of interior work is happening and we don’t see it.