[the urban politician]

Gas prices are dropping. I'm guessing these ridership gains may not be sustained

[alex1]

Gas prices are dropping. I'm guessing these ridership gains may not be sustained

Some will go back to their cars but I'd be surprised if not a majority of new riders stay on mass transit.

The trend definitely seems to be on the side of mass transit. For reasons ranging from environmental, road overloading to weening off our dependence on foreign oil. Price is a huge part of the whole equation but not the only one.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

^ I think once people get past that barrier of unfamiliarity with mass transit they're more likely to continue to use it. I mean, it's not like gas still isn't expensive. Still, it'll take a drastic and sustained increase to really push ridership numbers (and, consequently, pressure on the pols) up to where we want them to be...

[nomarandlee]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/transportation/1221809,CST-NWS-hov15.article

Blagojevich wants to establish 'free-flow' toll lane
TOLLWAYS | Gov wants to set aside ‘free-flow’ lane for those who share rides, drive hybrids — or pay more

October 15, 2008

Are tollway drivers ready to carpool?

Gov. Blagojevich thinks so.

He will announce a plan today to allow people who carpool or drive hybrids to use specially designated express lanes on Illinois tollways.

Under the plan, the Toll Authority will introduce "Green Lanes" into the busiest segments of the tollways. The idea is to reduce congestion and create "free-flow" lanes that would reduce braking and acceleration, thereby cutting emissions.

If approved by the tollway board, the lanes -- to be designated from existing lanes -- could be in place by 2010.

Carpool lanes are in use in more than two dozen urban areas around the country, including New York, Detroit, Miami and Los Angeles, so Illinois is coming late to the game.

"This would be an important tool for congestion relief," said Joseph Schwieterman, DePaul University transportation expert. "It's inexplicable why our region hasn't tried these techniques before."

The lanes are not always popular, though, especially when carved out of existing lanes. In California in the 1970s, angry drivers dumped broken glass and nails onto the Santa Monica Freeway to protest new high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes.

Since then, California politicians have only approved HOV lanes when they add to a highway's capacity, said Martin Wachs, an HOV lane expert.

The HOV lanes have increased carpooling and reduced congestion in Southern California, but one San Francisco-based study found HOV lanes actually made congestion worse in the Bay area.

The Illinois proposal appears to capitalize on a new twist in carpool lanes, high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes that allow solo drivers to use the lanes -- if they pay more.

In the proposed Green Lanes, solo drivers would be charged a yet-to-be-disclosed premium rate above the existing cost of a toll for the right to use the lane.

But cars with at least two people inside -- as well as buses, hybrids and electric or fuel cell vehicles -- would pay the current I-Pass rate.

Tolls would be deducted electronically from vehicles, although details on how the tollway would differentiate between types of cars or count how many people are inside were not disclosed.

Carpoolers would drive in the left lanes, which would be marked with stripes or diamonds but not walled off from the regular lanes.

Blagojevich spokesman Lucio Guerrero noted there is technology in other states that uses heat sensors to count car occupants.

Also to be announced today are plans for new interchanges, including an interchange between I-294 and I-57 in the south suburbs.

The Green Lanes and interchanges are budgeted at $1.8 billion, to be financed by bonds backed by a toll increase for commercial vehicles in 2015 and new toll rates for single-occupant vehicles in the Green Lanes. Those new rates weren't revealed.

In California, solo drivers pay up to $10 to drive 11 miles in a HOT lane of one L.A.-area freeway. The premium price fluctuates in an attempt to keep the express lanes at optimum traffic levels.

The lanes have been derided by some as "Lexus Lanes," but they help pay for themselves with the higher rates and give drivers an option, albeit a costlier one.

"They have been extremely successful, but it's only been done in relatively few places," said Wachs.

The idea for carpool lanes in the Chicago area has been studied in the past -- and rejected. In 1994, a plan to add HOV lanes to the Stevenson Expy. was killed. Mayor Daley at the time said the state's plan would have diverted money away from city streets.

JUMP INTO THE HOV

Aimed to relieve congestion, High Occupancy Vehicle lanes are exclusive to those who have more than one person in their car. Those drivers on Illinois tollways riding alone would pay a higher toll.

on Urb's point about gas prices I am also a bit concerned. It is such a catch 22. When the economy gets bad you are likely to have lower gas prices and when the world economy (and likely U.S. economy by extension) are good they prices will tend to be higher. Pick your poison I guess. I liked Thomas Friedmans idea about setting a price floor for gas though as a solution. Otherwise prices are just seem to volatile to set macro policies and initiative solutions around.

http://www.charlierose.com/guests/thomas-friedman
@ 15:00 min. in

[the urban politician]

^ The fine print about the new HOT lanes:

It's essentially raising tolls. (cheaper lanes get more congested b/c there are fewer of them, thus more and more people are tempted to use the HOT, thus paying higher tolls. The HOT lanes eventually get more congested but remain just a little bit LESS congested than the regular lanes, enough to continue to attract drivers who pay the higher prices.) And yes, I'm sure it will encourage at least a percentage of people to carpool.

I'm glad Chicagoland is finally doing this. It certainly has the congestion in place to justify it.

One other note:

High gas prices are also partly the reason why Metra couldn't afford to increase frequency of services, etc. Perhaps the lowering of gas prices will finally open a window to make that possible?

[VivaLFuego]

High gas prices are also partly the reason why Metra couldn't afford to increase frequency of services, etc. Perhaps the lowering of gas prices will finally open a window to make that possible?

Of course not! :)

[alex1]

on Urb's point about gas prices I am also a bit concerned. It is such a catch 22. When the economy gets bad you are likely to have lower gas prices and when the world economy (and likely U.S. economy by extension) are good they prices will tend to be higher. Pick your poison I guess. I liked Thomas Friedmans idea about setting a price floor for gas though as a solution. Otherwise prices are just seem to volatile to set macro policies and initiative solutions around.

http://www.charlierose.com/guests/thomas-friedman
@ 15:00 min. in

prices aren't set by the conditions of the economy. Instead, they are loosely set by OPEC by calculating a risk/reward scenerio by dictating amount of production. I'm sure the clout oil companies have on government in the U.S. is also a point of negotiating the final price.

So, at what point does the price of oil encourage a society to really challenge how we pursue future energy policies? Current trends have pushed to see where those boundaries lie.

[Marcu]

on Urb's point about gas prices I am also a bit concerned. It is such a catch 22. When the economy gets bad you are likely to have lower gas prices and when the world economy (and likely U.S. economy by extension) are good they prices will tend to be higher. Pick your poison I guess. I liked Thomas Friedmans idea about setting a price floor for gas though as a solution. Otherwise prices are just seem to volatile to set macro policies and initiative solutions around.

http://www.charlierose.com/guests/thomas-friedman
@ 15:00 min. in

I disagree with Thomas Friedman and especially with the idea that price floors are necessary since crude prices are too volatile to set macro policy. Friedman's approach deceptively makes sense, but in reality it is a highly oversimplistic view of the market. It also relies on the fact that 90%+ of the American public has never heard of futures and has no understanding of basic economics.

Most institutional users, including airlines and bus fleets, buy gas futures for the exact reason that they do not want to deal with the volatility of gas prices. Further, macro policy is long term and is therefore based on aggregate data. A renewable energy startup surely doesn't rely on day to day crude price changes in their financial models. In addition, the volatility Friedman is talking about is just as great, if not greater, with every other commodity, including gold, corn, and every other raw material in the world. Policy makers don't seem to have a problem setting macro policy with regard to every other issue in the world and startups don't seem to have any problems adjusting. So why with oil?

Friedman's issue is he sees energy startups spring up when prices are high (every summer) only to fold when they are lower (every winter). Of course in reality, the startups will have to be able to compete long term with oil without massive subsidies if they are to have a chance anyway. So Friedman is simply asking the public to subsidize the less efficient and less necessary startups with the most inefficient and regressive subsidy possible.

[ardecila]

How is a price floor a subsidy? I suppose the reduced gas sales and increased supply will lead to a loss of tax revenue for the government, but it's not exactly like the government is spending money to support an unprofitable business.

[Marcu]

^ It sets a minimum floor price at which gas producers have to sell their gas. So producers aren't forced to price compete and are able to take profits that resemble those of a monopolist rather than an actor in a competitive market. It also results in excess supply of gas, or surplus, that gets pumped and refined but not sold since too many producers are willing to produce at price levels higher than the equilibrium. So producers are taking higher profits, consumers are paying more, and we got a surplus of product.

[whyhuhwhy]

Some will go back to their cars but I'd be surprised if not a majority of new riders stay on mass transit.

The trend definitely seems to be on the side of mass transit. For reasons ranging from environmental, road overloading to weening off our dependence on foreign oil. Price is a huge part of the whole equation but not the only one.

I think a lot of people are trying out mass transit and realizing that Chicago will become colder than a witch's tit pretty soon here, and will go back to their cars rather than standing outside in arctic weather. I started taking transit again two weeks ago because it just made sense to me and I already have a bad cold unfortunately from standing outside in the cold mornings, which is not good when you are a doctor. This cold weather is only going to get worse. It would be different if the El system was all underground but it is well exposed to perhaps one of the coldest cities on earth.

On the subject of "price flooring" to help out gas price volatility, isn't that why companies buy futures in the first place?

Edit: Marcu already said it.

[VivaLFuego]

^ As far as the trains are concerned, most if not all outdoor stations have heat lamps.

Also, transit ridership is usually measured as year-over-year, since both routes and systems have their own cyclical variations. It gets cold every winter, so that alone probably wouldn't account for much of a year-over-year decline in ridership unless it's unseasonably cold/awful, which has little to do with oil prices or CTA service.

[Jaroslaw]

^ As far as the trains are concerned, most if not all outdoor stations have heat lamps.

Also, transit ridership is usually measured as year-over-year, since both routes and systems have their own cyclical variations. It gets cold every winter, so that alone probably wouldn't account for much of a year-over-year decline in ridership unless it's unseasonably cold/awful, which has little to do with oil prices or CTA service.

I doubt the heat lamps are working yet. And the bus stops are of course the majority of public transit stops in Chicago.

This has nothing to do with year on year changes... it has to do with the new condition of higher gas prices, a one-time event, i.e., an unexpected new variable, leading people to try out rapid transport. Moreover, you use the year on year statistical perspective to obscure the fact that one reason for the low popularity of public transit in Chicago is the inconvenience or hardship of using it in the winter.

Your persistence in denying or explaining away any criticism of public transit is ultimately counterproductive. You do not engage the real-life, practical experience of transit users; your arguments seem to come out of a bureaucratic void. For transit to catch on, we have to do better than this. Instead of your PR-like, "Oh, there are heat lamps"--if whyhuhwhy is a doctor, one should give him credit for having tried out the heat lamps--the more productive answer would be, "Yes, the elevated el stations are exposed to wind because often they are open to the elements. The el platforms should be shielded from the outside, as they are on above-ground lines in Asia... this is unfeasible in Chicago because of X and Y, and this is what we should try to change."

[Nowhereman1280]

I doubt the heat lamps are working yet.


Actually, they are working already, the ones on at red line for sure were on last night. Its unusually early for them to be on, but sure enough they were...

[ardecila]

The el platforms should be shielded from the outside, as they are on above-ground lines in Asia... this is unfeasible in Chicago because of X and Y, and this is what we should try to change."

A retrofit program would be quite expensive, but building all new aboveground stations with a system of platform doors would eliminate this problem, and make platform heating possible. For example, I would like to see the new Morgan, 18th, and Cermak stations built with platform doors. These stations, because they are surrounded by mostly 1 and 2-story buildings, would receive quite a bit of wind. Also, the stations with roofs, like upper Clark/Lake or Merchandise Mart, would be relatively cheap to retrofit with platform doors.

Also, if the North Main Line ever gets rebuilt like the Brown Line was, it too should have these installed.

Or, what about much cheaper measures, like wind-breaks? A plexiglass wall on the outside edges of the platform would cut down quite a bit of wind.

[Jaroslaw]

Or, what about much cheaper measures, like wind-breaks? A plexiglass wall on the outside edges of the platform would cut down quite a bit of wind.

That's exactly what I had in mind...

[Mr Downtown]

Are there any station platforms that don't already have clear acrylic windbreaks?

[dbrenna5]

^ It sets a minimum floor price at which gas producers have to sell their gas. So producers aren't forced to price compete and are able to take profits that resemble those of a monopolist rather than an actor in a competitive market. It also results in excess supply of gas, or surplus, that gets pumped and refined but not sold since too many producers are willing to produce at price levels higher than the equilibrium. So producers are taking higher profits, consumers are paying more, and we got a surplus of product.

A price floor would decrease profits by decreasing the quantity demanded. They would still have to compete with each other; producers have to compete at any price unless they have more market power. A price floor would not necessarily increase any producer's market power and would not increase profits to producers.

[VivaLFuego]

Your persistence in denying or explaining away any criticism of public transit is ultimately counterproductive. You do not engage the real-life, practical experience of transit users; your arguments seem to come out of a bureaucratic void. For transit to catch on, we have to do better than this. Instead of your PR-like, "Oh, there are heat lamps"--if whyhuhwhy is a doctor, one should give him credit for having tried out the heat lamps--the more productive answer would be, "Yes, the elevated el stations are exposed to wind because often they are open to the elements. The el platforms should be shielded from the outside, as they are on above-ground lines in Asia... this is unfeasible in Chicago because of X and Y, and this is what we should try to change."

I'm not trying to be difficult. I think my 1000+ rides annually on CTA (not to mention the many transit trips taken while traveling) give me plenty of perspective to critique CTA service. I just don't see how winter this year will impact ridership any more than winter does any other year.

I'll give your point a shot, though. One of the problems with the heat lamps at rail stations is that they're so high. On the coldest days (e.g. <20F) they are too high to adequately provide warmth for people standing on the platform below - at a few stations there's a bench nearby that people inevitably wind up standing upon to get closer to the heat. In Chicago, this is necessary because if the heat lamps are reachable by hand, the heating element and metal grating will be stolen instantly, just like anything else that isn't bolted/welded down (and bolting only works if you use an obscure drive type e.g. Torq/Torx and apply enough tightening force that machine power is necessary to unbolt it). Between the theft risk and the maintenance involved, this is also why heat lamps are unfeasible at bus shelters, though I could imagine it's the type of idiosyncracy Daley could latch onto and have installed at downtown shelters.

[VivaLFuego]

High gas prices are also partly the reason why Metra couldn't afford to increase frequency of services, etc. Perhaps the lowering of gas prices will finally open a window to make that possible?

Getting back to this topic, Metra actually will be increasing service... by adding three roundtrips on Saturdays on the SWS line. Half funded by Metra, and half by additional discretionary funds from RTA.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/transportation/chi-getting-around-both-20-oct20,0,5091327.column

New CTA Brown Line has rough edges, building shortcuts
12 of the 18 stations are updated, but was expansion project worth $530 million?

Jon Hilkevitch | Getting Around
October 20, 2008

CTA officials must be hoping that Brown Line riders hurrying to catch their trains won't pay too much attention to spots where corners were cut at rebuilt stations as the $530 million rehab project enters its final phase.

"The reconstruction has gone very well, no major problems," said Pat Taylor, the agency's vice president of facilities maintenance, construction and engineering.

The Chicago Transit Authority can take credit for stations that are sleek and larger than the old ones while preserving the original historic station houses. The community artwork adds a nice touch...........
..

[k1052]

I do have to say that the very short platform canopies definitely suck. Of all the things to cut costs on I think this was a really terrible choice.

Nobody who has to stand on windy platforms totally exposed to freezing rain or snow this fall/winter is going to be saying anything kind about the CTA.

[VivaLFuego]

I'd like to think the stations were designed so that the various features removed by value engineering could eventually be added: 4-car canopies, escalators, turnstiles, etc. But I'm not sure. One problem is that at some stations, the wind break shelters aren't located under the canopy, so it'll be pick-your-poison on the worst weather days. From what I remember of the original station designs, the cost reductions did have a pretty major impact on the project: each station used to have many more unique architectural features and had a more holistically-coherent design for it's specific site and location. A large chunk of the cost savings were obtained by strict standardization of many features and components, which sounds good on paper but...

...oh well; get what you pay for.

[OhioGuy]

The canopy issue is kind of annoying. I complained on here last winter when I noticed that the Addison station was covered with snow, upwards of 18 hours after a snow storm had hit. No CTA worker had bothered to come out & shovel off the platform. I would think it would be a safety issue and have top priority to ensure the platforms are clear of snow & ice. Instead the only area to wait was under the small portion of the platform covered by the canopy. I've also seen the canopy situation being an issue at Montrose, where it's located at the end end of the platform from where people walk up the stairs. So plenty of riders just crowd the area at the top of the stairs which has a small covering. It makes me happy that my local L station is the Addision red line stop where the canopy covers the entire platform and escalators are in place. But at the same time, I don't want to complain too much about the brown line. For the most part I do like the new stations... and I particularly like some of the new station houses (Sedgwick is great and I suspect the newly refurbished Damen station house will be great as well).

[ChicagoChicago]

Can anyone tell me what the deal is with the Wellington stop on the brown line? Per the "Countdown to a new Brown" website, the Wellington stop is only supposed to stay closed for a year. Unless they buil that thing in record time though, it isn't going to happen. It is supposed to re-open in March.

I'm not even sure that it can happen, because the new platform (not built) on the Northbound side doesn't appear to be capable of handling 8 car trains due to width constraints.

[Chicago3rd]

^^I am betting it will be closed. That has been my gut feeling for a while now. With Belmont having the southern stairway at Fletcher it is only .18 miles to Wellington. Now I don't believe in getting rid of stations, but like you I cannot see where the station on the east side northbound will be going and unlike all the other stations they ripped this one almost completely out.

The problem would be the City allowed another Parking garage to be built and that took up the airspace.....to build the platform.

[ChicagoChicago]

^^
I'm hoping it will be be closed. It makes zero sense to have a station so close to Belmont, and I'm not looking forward to my Brownline stops making the extra pause there every trip as well. I do know quite a few Illinois-Masonic employees that are hoping for the stop to re-open, but I'm not one of them. I think a fair comprimise would be to have an opening to the Belmont station from Fletcher.

[VivaLFuego]

Wellington will be rebuilt, but it might end up having been closed more than 12 months (I guess they borrowed some 'credits' from opening Diversey early, hehe). The station serves not only a major trip generator and work destination (the hospital) but also is very highly utilized by the surrounding residential neighborhood. The rail transit mode share of people who live near the Diversey, Wellington, and Belmont stops is the envy of any other transit agency in the country. If CTA were building a transit line from scratch it would make sense to bypass Wellington, but not when the existing neighborhood has largely developed around it.

[Chicago3rd]

^^Have you physically seen what they did to it? No other station was demolished like that one. Of course we are speculating here, because it could have been the one that was in the worse shape. But the budget crises just may be the excuse they need to not open it up in the next year or so. I think Masonic showed us how concerned they are about the neighborhood and mass transit by building that new garage right next to the el. Anyway...full of opinions...just my own.

[harryc]

Oct 11 - this is why they call it the green line.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/harry.r.carmichael/SP_adk9ameI/AAAAAAAA1Ro/wLso91JBYZo/s800/P1090664_5_6.jpg

Oct 13 - working on Grand and State
http://lh6.ggpht.com/harry.r.carmichael/SP_afCoWlvI/AAAAAAAA1R0/RBs0zHFbq7o/s800/P1090882.JPG

The friendly equipment
http://lh5.ggpht.com/harry.r.carmichael/SP_aghL3h6I/AAAAAAAA1SA/gKuU0nqe4LM/s800/P1090905.JPG

[MayorOfChicago]

I have been thinking about Wellington for weeks now!! I go by every day and EVERY aspect of that old station is entirely gone. Station house (even though it sucked), the overheads, platforms, and even all the old supports for the old station.

There's literally nothing there, and there hasn't been a worker on that site in many many months. Lately I've been completely convinced that they'll wait till people get use to going to Belmont and Diversey, then wait until all 4 tracks are restored in a few months and people are happy, and then sneak in around Christmas that Wellington is toast.

Absolutely no way it'll be open in March. It's been closed for 7 months and the last time anyone was working on that station was 6 months ago when they finished demolishing it all.

[pip]

^I don't even see how they can build the east side of the platform, extending it to 8 cars in lengh, without ripping out down a building

[whyhuhwhy]

I'm not trying to be difficult. I think my 1000+ rides annually on CTA (not to mention the many transit trips taken while traveling) give me plenty of perspective to critique CTA service. I just don't see how winter this year will impact ridership any more than winter does any other year.

I'll give your point a shot, though. One of the problems with the heat lamps at rail stations is that they're so high. On the coldest days (e.g. <20F) they are too high to adequately provide warmth for people standing on the platform below - at a few stations there's a bench nearby that people inevitably wind up standing upon to get closer to the heat. In Chicago, this is necessary because if the heat lamps are reachable by hand, the heating element and metal grating will be stolen instantly, just like anything else that isn't bolted/welded down (and bolting only works if you use an obscure drive type e.g. Torq/Torx and apply enough tightening force that machine power is necessary to unbolt it). Between the theft risk and the maintenance involved, this is also why heat lamps are unfeasible at bus shelters, though I could imagine it's the type of idiosyncracy Daley could latch onto and have installed at downtown shelters.

The problem with the heat lamps I notice is that there are just not enough of them. I've stood on those platforms in the dead of winter and getting a spot underneath a heatlamp is like getting a spot behind home plate during the Cubs playoffs. Also from my experience it looks like there are more bus riders than there are train riders.

I hate to be a downer but this is a cold ass city, and it's very windy, it rains a lot, it's also beautiful a lot too. We all know that and it's cliche. But as far as transit we REALLY have to take this into account. We need to be realistic with our goals. The weather in Chicago is just not conducive to making transit as feasible as it is in Europe unless it is well planned and EXPENSIVE, since 90% of our transit system is above ground, exposed to what I can only describe as arctic conditions for months out of the year. It will be expensive to change that. The wind shields sound like a great start.

I used to live in London and would take transit every day, year round, and it was wonderful. The weather is much more mild and the stations are underground. In Chicago I am seriously taking my health into my own risk anywhere from November through March. It would be different if I had to take transit at high noon, but in the mornings it can get extremely cold. I can see a thousand sick people in a week as a doc and I won't get sick, but make me stand out in sub-zero degree weather for 30-45 minutes every day for a good week and I'll be done for, from my experience. Not good. So I drive instead, and stay warm.

[Taft]

^I don't even see how they can build the east side of the platform, extending it to 8 cars in lengh, without ripping out down a building

which brings up an interesting thought...is the station being delayed to an eminent domain dispute? I have also been wondering about how/when they were going to do this station. It is "my" station, so to speak, so I'm waiting for it to re-open.

The one thing I'll note is that they have Wellington routed around where the station was in a seemingly "permanent" fashion. There are long-term looking barriers directing traffic into two very narrow lanes near the north end of the street and have even painted a yellow line divider for the new route. Looks like they are prepared for the road to be narrowed for the long term.

Taft

[OhioGuy]

Fun time on the blue line this evening. Someone jumped in front of a southbound train at Montrose, which shut the southbound line down from Rosemont to Addison. I had to be out in Schaumburg this evening and then rode a shuttle to Rosemont. I hopped on the train there, only to wait 10 minutes before someone with the CTA said they had some shuttles down stairs for those needing them. I'm thinking what the fuck??? They didn't give any reason or information that the southbound line had been shut down. So I, and about 75% of the riders, remained on the train until finally a CTA worker said that someone had jumped in front a train at one of the stations and that we all had to take the shuttles. The communication was rather poor. So I hopped on a shuttle that took forever to finally get to my stop at Addison where I then switched to the 152 to head home to Lakeview. When someone jumps in front of a train, it seems to absolutely cripple a line. I guess single tracking wasn't an option between Jefferson Park and Irving Park because they can't just shut off the electricity in that isolated section in & around Montrose?

[Chicago3rd]

So in only 10 minutes CTA had shuttles for you and announced they were available? And 75% of the riders didn't take the hint????? 10 minutes is very impressive to have not only an annoucement but actual buses there to continue the trip south. I would have been part of the 25% who got off....CTA fool me once shame on you fool me twice.

[OhioGuy]

It's the lack of communication that was the problem. If I hadn't sat around waiting & wondering why we weren't moving, I wouldn't have complained on here. And others on the train had been waiting even longer without any information on why everything was stopped. Communication is key, and they failed at that. Think you can actually grasp the concept of good communication?

[pip]

I had a really strange experience on the CTA today.

I got on at the Grand Red Line stop and was heading to my destination Belmont. The train flew the entire way. No slow downs, no stops, it even flew into the stations. Well if this is how things will be when the slow zones are finally fixed I'll die a happy person.

[UChicagoDomer]

the blue line is 15mph between chicago and grand, inbound, and pretty slow for half the distance between grand and clark/lake as well. it wasn't like that 2 months ago (according to the slow zone map at transitchicago.com). anyone have a culprit to blame and whether a solution to that is in the works?

[Nowhereman1280]

I noticed a sign tonight at Belmont and Fullerton that said the 2nd phase 3 tracking was running 6 months ahead of schedule and full rail service is expected to resume by the end of 2008. Could the CTA finally be getting its act together?

[OhioGuy]

^^^ Those signs have been up for a couple months. But it is exciting to think about all four tracks being back up & running. It certainly looks to me like the Fullerton southbound outer tracks will be completed & opened first. So once that happens, my morning commute should be much more pleasant once we're past Belmont. As it is now, a purple or brown line train ahead of a red line train really slows things down because of the extra stop those two lines have to make at Diversey. But soon those delays should be a thing of the past! :banana:

[VivaLFuego]

I noticed a sign tonight at Belmont and Fullerton that said the 2nd phase 3 tracking was running 6 months ahead of schedule and full rail service is expected to resume by the end of 2008. Could the CTA finally be getting its act together?

CTA executed a contract change order for ~$2 million earlier this year to accelerate the structural and track portion of the work at Belmont/Fullerton by 6 months. It's ahead of original schedule because the schedule has changed :) The entire corridor should operate much more efficiently, quickly, and smoothly once trains aren't frequently criss-crossing between tracks. I have high hopes for reliving my childhood when the entire 4-track corridor was zippy...

[Chicago3rd]

I noticed a sign tonight at Belmont and Fullerton that said the 2nd phase 3 tracking was running 6 months ahead of schedule and full rail service is expected to resume by the end of 2008. Could the CTA finally be getting its act together?

They have been together as far as the 3 tracking went. Commutes became way smoother. Then they had it together by finally rushing to get the slow zones repaired......since Ron has been there things are getting together. Hope he continues with the changes.

[OhioGuy]

Is there somewhere on the CTA's website where the say in advance whether the red line subway will be closed on a particular weekend? Or are they finally finished with closing it on weekends? I'm trying to figure out if it will be open the weekend of Nov. 7-9 when my parents are in town.

(I looked in the customer alerts section of the website, but it doesn't seem to give any information regarding red line weekend subway service until about a day or two before the service change goes into affect... they didn't close it this past weekend)

[jjk1103]

.can anyone tell me when the weekend track work on the O'Hare Blue is going to be complete ?

[ChicagoChicago]

Is there somewhere on the CTA's website where the say in advance whether the red line subway will be closed on a particular weekend? Or are they finally finished with closing it on weekends? I'm trying to figure out if it will be open the weekend of Nov. 7-9 when my parents are in town.

(I looked in the customer alerts section of the website, but it doesn't seem to give any information regarding red line weekend subway service until about a day or two before the service change goes into affect... they didn't close it this past weekend)
The customer alerts section on transitchicago.com is your best bet. I believe theyare done running the red line tracks on the elevated route. Now they are closing portions of the loop down on the weekends.

[VivaLFuego]

Is there somewhere on the CTA's website where the say in advance whether the red line subway will be closed on a particular weekend? Or are they finally finished with closing it on weekends? I'm trying to figure out if it will be open the weekend of Nov. 7-9 when my parents are in town.

(I looked in the customer alerts section of the website, but it doesn't seem to give any information regarding red line weekend subway service until about a day or two before the service change goes into affect... they didn't close it this past weekend)

Weekend Red Line closures are finished. At this point, the only reroutes occur in one or both directions on Monday evenings. This should wrap up by the end of the year.

.can anyone tell me when the weekend track work on the O'Hare Blue is going to be complete ?

I think by Thanksgiving the weekend line cuts will be finished. Thanksgiving is also the target for completing the track replacement on the Lake and Wabash legs of the Loop. Wells and Van Buren track work will be done sometime in 2009.

[jjk1103]

Weekend Red Line closures are finished. At this point, the only reroutes occur in one or both directions on Monday evenings. This should wrap up by the end of the year.



I think by Thanksgiving the weekend line cuts will be finished. Thanksgiving is also the target for completing the track replacement on the Lake and Wabash legs of the Loop. Wells and Van Buren track work will be done sometime in 2009.

....thanks a lot !!!

[jjk1103]

Weekend Red Line closures are finished. At this point, the only reroutes occur in one or both directions on Monday evenings. This should wrap up by the end of the year.



I think by Thanksgiving the weekend line cuts will be finished. Thanksgiving is also the target for completing the track replacement on the Lake and Wabash legs of the Loop. Wells and Van Buren track work will be done sometime in 2009.

...why are they re-routing the Red on Monday nights ?

[OhioGuy]

[QUOTE=VivaLFuego;3878648]Weekend Red Line closures are finished. At this point, the only reroutes occur in one or both directions on Monday evenings. This should wrap up by the end of the year./QUOTE]

Sweet. Thanks for the info! (and you too, ChicagoChicago)

[UChicagoDomer]

I think by Thanksgiving the weekend line cuts will be finished. Thanksgiving is also the target for completing the track replacement on the Lake and Wabash legs of the Loop. Wells and Van Buren track work will be done sometime in 2009.


Is the CTA going to re-start construction on the Blue Line on the 15mph stretch between Chicago and Grand inbound?

[ChicagoChicago]

I’m curious to know about the painting of the Wabash side of the Loop tracks. I am aware of the rehab work done on Wabash with sidewalk replacement and flower Boxes, etc. Does anyone know if it will be continued to the rest of the Loop tracks? It looks fantastic!

[VivaLFuego]

Is the CTA going to re-start construction on the Blue Line on the 15mph stretch between Chicago and Grand inbound?

My understanding is that there is a strong desire to give the Blue Line subway the same treatment that the Red Line got this year: full replacement of all ties and tie plates for the entire length of the subway. The slow zone removal project a year ago in the Milwaukee subway, following the derailment, was rolled into the Block 37 contract to replace only the most deteriorated sections as an emergency measure, but as this new slow zone suggests there is plenty more that needs replacing.

The company line appears to be, however, that such a project is currently contingent on increased capital funding. Between the current track projects and the multitude of ongoing vehicle orders (both buses and railcars), CTA has reached the limit of how much of its future capital grant money can be borrowed against to pay for immediate improvements. So after the current round of track projects - O'Hare branch, Clark Jct/Brown Line, Loop El - track maintenance will basically revert to it's former role as sending crews out reactively to try to fix slow zones as they occur, rather than performing a full capital construction project to fix the track for good with a full replacement of old track components.

The prioritization of capital projects is a tricky question. My perception is that the current guiding principle is to use capital investment to specifically reduce operating costs, hence the heavy emphasis on accelerated and drastic replacement of the vehicle fleet to reduce maintenance costs, the latter of which come out of the operating budget. Replacement of slow zones is thus a priority only if the slow zone has the result of some combination of: 1) increasing the vehicle and labor requirement to meet the same frequency of service, because the service is slower, or 2) heavily suppressing ridership/fare revenue.

[jjk1103]

....thanks Viva.....great info as usual !! :worship: :worship: :worship:

[the urban politician]

RFMA succeeds in getting Morgan Street station (http://www.gazettechicago.com/index/?p=41)
By Patrick Butler | November 2008

“We heard the local businesses, and the City in turn heard us,” said Randolph/Fulton Market Association Director Roger Romanelli, elated after the Chicago Transit Authority’s (CTA) decision to put a Morgan Street stop on the Green Line elevated train route running along Lake Street.

Work will begin in March 2009. Because Lake Street will be kept open and the trains will continue running during construction, the job will take about 18 months. That is longer than Romanelli would like, but better late than never, he feels.

Romanelli said his 90-member business group, representing the area between Halsted Street, Hubbard Street, Ogden Avenue, and Washington Boulevard, had been lobbying since 2002 for a station to replace the old Halsted el stop that was closed in 1995 during the Green Line renovation.

The original Morgan station was torn down in 1948 when the area—and ridership—started slipping.

The decision to go ahead with the new station came out of a $2.5 million Chicago Department of
Transportation study that also led to creating the Pink Line; adding five new bus routes, including the Randolph Street Express; and enhancing existing el lines.

“The City is recognizing that businesses are here and their employees need to get to work affordably and in an environmentally gentle way,” said Romanelli.

The stakes, Romanelli said, are high.

“We’ve got 200 businesses employing 3,000 workers in the Randolph/Fulton Market district,” he said.

High price tag
Romanelli’s only concerns at this point are the reported $35 million price tag for the new station and that the money apparently will be coming out of the Kedzie Avenue TIF District, which Romanelli said has $38 million in the bank and collects $12 million a year in property taxes.

“It’s only your standard station with handicapped access,” Romanelli explained. “There will be elevators, and there will certainly have to be new structural supports. But $38 million?”

Chicago Department of Transportation (CDOT) spokeswoman Maria Castenada explained it is impossible” to tell how much the station will cost until officials approve a design and award bids later this year.

“But whatever the cost is, the cost is,” said Bob Wiggs, director of the 90-year-old West Loop
Community Organization (WLCO), which represents some 125 businesses, agencies, and organizations
in the area running from 600 north to 1600 south between Wells Street and California Avenue.

“It’s absolutely terrific,” Wiggs continued. “It’s long overdue. We’d really like to have some input on the finished design, and we know we will,” he said, adding that “Roger [Romanelli] deserves a lot of the credit. He really took the bull by the horns.”

The Morgan station will be midway between the existing Clinton Street (540 west) and Ashland Avenue (1600 west) stops, which are 1.5 miles from one another. The new station will have two entrances, bike racks, a concession stand, customer assistance kiosks, security cameras, and a six-car parking area translucent canopy, according to the WLCO.

Romanelli plans to ask CDOT and the CTA to be more specific about just how much the new stop is going to cost—but certainly not because he wants to stop the project.

“We want to talk about doing this in a thoughtful way,” Romanelli said. “It’s the biggest public works project we’ve had here since they rebuilt the Green Line. We’re going to ask for comparables from the Brown Line construction project,” he said.

Another concern, Romanelli added, is whether commuters would drive to the West Loop and take the CTA downtown after parking in spaces needed for employees and customers in what is still a highly industrial area where parking is at a premium.

Also competing for those precious parking spaces are patrons of the area’s trendy retailers and
restaurants as well as residents of the new housing sprouting all over just a few blocks south, according to local businesspeople Lee Friedheim of Cougle Commission Co. and Bill Bojeczko of Exel Corned Beef.

Positive impact
A new station at that location cannot help but have a positive impact on everyone, said Harpo
Studios’ Bill Becker. Harpo has many full- and part-time employees, audiences of up to 1,000 people a day for tapings of Oprah Winfrey’s shows, and scores of shoppers at the Oprah Store. Another local organization that will benefit is the Haymarket Center social service agency at 932 W. Washington Blvd., whose 500 employees and 18,000 clients overwhelmingly use mass transit.

“Communities tend to thrive when there’s transportation nearby,” Anthony Cole, the agency’s vice president, said.

“We have a 24-hour operation in the Randolph/Fulton Market area,” Romanelli noted. “We have businesses starting operations at 3 a.m., restaurants opening at 5 a.m., and residents and workers coming and going day and night. Halsted is a destination point for the 3,000 industrial workers in the morning. And in the afternoon, it’s a destination for restaurant-goers and art gallery patrons.”

Romanelli hailed the CTA’s green light for the Green Line’s newest station as a very “green thing to do,” noting that putting a station at Lake and Morgan Streets would help not only the local economy but the environment by taking more cars off the street.

“We’ve been talking green for many years,” he concluded. “This is another way to really engage companies about producing small carbon footprints. Hopefully those companies will develop public transit plans for their employees and even encourage them to use bikes.”

[ardecila]

^^ Sounds good. March 2009 seems a bit optimistic, seeing as how they don't even have a design yet. I hope the design is at least halfway-decent. There's an abandoned little gas station at the corner of Morgan and Lake. If the CTA buys it and uses it to construct the station house, then it would simplify construction and perhaps cost.

I just had an awesome thought - a Studio Gang L station? I'm sure their work is way out of budget for this project, and they have little experience dealing with the value-engineering necessities of governmental work, but it would be pretty awesome. Plus, it would reinforce the "green" mentality that these West Loopers have about their station, and even the line's name.

[BVictor1]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/transportation/1256522,CST-NWS-ride03.article

About that old train bridge. . .
BABY STEP | City would use it to link trains with Michigan Ave.

November 3, 2008

You know that old up-in-the-air railroad bridge over the Chicago River by Kinzie -- the one people like to use as a backdrop for funky, urban wedding portraits?

The bridge connects to a Union Pacific train tunnel running under the Apparel Center, the Merchandise Mart and other buildings east toward North Michigan Avenue.

http://media1.suntimes.com/multimedia/110308ride_cst_feed_20081102_22_20_37_59-282-400.imageContent
Looking west on the old railroad tracks to the Kinzie Street bridge.
(Scott Stewart/Sun-Times)

For more than 20 years, the city has been talking about making use of that tunnel to create a transit link from Union Station and the Ogilvie Transportation Center to Michigan Avenue.

Now, the city is taking a baby step toward making the "Carroll Avenue" connection a reality. By year's end, the city's transportation department will issue a "request for proposals" for an "alternatives analysis" that will look not only at the Carroll Avenue site proposal, but also at other possibilities for a link from the West Loop to Michigan Avenue -- like using Illinois Street or Lower Wacker Drive.

Why does the city need to spend $1.6 million in federal money and a $400,000 city match on an alternatives analysis when officials already know they want to use Carroll Avenue?

"An alternatives analysis is required as part of the process," says Luann Hamilton, deputy commissioner for the division of project development for the Chicago Department of Transportation, a hurdle the city needs to clear to ask for federal "New Start" funds.

The city envisions a streetcar -- or an express bus -- picking up passengers at the train stations and carrying them north along Clinton. City officials would like to create an underpass under the Metra tracks so cars and buses wouldn't have to wait for the train.

The city would have to retrofit the old, raised bridge so it would carry the buses. Then, the bus or streetcar would be able to run along Carroll, without the interference of stop lights or other cars, to carry people straight east to Michigan Avenue, where they could get to shopping, Streeterville and the Northwestern Memorial Hospital complex.

Now, the way to get from the train stations to Michigan Avenue is by bus or taxi, going through traffic, or by a Chicago Water Taxi up the river during the months that it runs.

The city has discussed some version of the Carroll Avenue plan since at least 1986. The current version made it into the city's 2003 Central Area Plan, which talked up a range of transit and other improvements. A West Loop Transportation Complex along Clinton is part of that plan.

The total Carroll Avenue project would cost "tens of millions of dollars," and it certainly won't happen in this decade, Hamilton says. The alternatives analysis alone would take about 18 months.

While waiting to get the project going, the city has worked on protecting the right-of-way even as construction has gone on in the area, making sure the space is preserved. The Trump Tower, for instance, incorporated the opening into its design.

We'll check back in 2010 to see if the Carroll Avenue project finds the money to happen, or if that $2 million in analysis funding was spent in vain. Meanwhile, if you want photos in front of that bridge, take them now.

[ChicagoChicago]

Structural steel is on site for Wellington stop. It's going back up, if there was ever a doubt it wasn't.

I could have saved the CTA a few grand. What is the point of surveillance video monitors on the platforms? Armitage has it. I'm sure it isn't the only only one.

[VivaLFuego]

What is the point of surveillance video monitors on the platforms? Armitage has it. I'm sure it isn't the only only one.

Generally, monitors indicate a blind spot on the platform; the operator isn't able to see the entire train to safely operate the doors. Multiple monitors may be necessary if trains of different lengths (4 v. 6 v. 8-cars) have different berthing locations on the platform.

[orulz]

Good old FTA red tape. Is there any way Chicago could fund the Carroll Avenue project locally? That way they can build it how they like, no requirements for alternatives analysis and such.

The only map I've ever seen of the Caroll Ave transitway (here (http://www.rivernorthresidents.com/misc/Transitway%20map%20color2.pdf)) shows the northbound segment following Canal Street until just north of Fulton Street where it cuts over to Clinton. First of all, where is the right-of-way to do that? Seems to me it would make more sense to use that little disjointed segment of Milwaukee between Lake and Fulton. Heck, even close it off to regular traffic for the transitway, because, who cares?

Grade separating Clinton and the railroad will probably be difficult, how do you do that and still maintain access to the condos? The blue line under Milwaukee probably complicates things further.

Hopefully they can refurbish and then reuse the old bridge, rather than replacing it or just bypassing it on Kinzie Street.

Lastly, does anybody happen to know where the right-of-way ends? It used to go all the way to navy pier, but obviously it doesn't go that far anymore. Does it pretty much dead end at the NBC tower?

[ardecila]

Good old FTA red tape. Is there any way Chicago could fund the Carroll Avenue project locally? That way they can build it how they like, no requirements for alternatives analysis and such.

The only map I've ever seen of the Caroll Ave transitway (here (http://www.rivernorthresidents.com/misc/Transitway%20map%20color2.pdf)) shows the northbound segment following Canal Street until just north of Fulton Street where it cuts over to Clinton. First of all, where is the right-of-way to do that? Seems to me it would make more sense to use that little disjointed segment of Milwaukee between Lake and Fulton. Heck, even close it off to regular traffic for the transitway, because, who cares?

Grade separating Clinton and the railroad will probably be difficult, how do you do that and still maintain access to the condos? The blue line under Milwaukee probably complicates things further.

Hopefully they can refurbish and then reuse the old bridge, rather than replacing it or just bypassing it on Kinzie Street.

Lastly, does anybody happen to know where the right-of-way ends? It used to go all the way to navy pier, but obviously it doesn't go that far anymore. Does it pretty much dead end at the NBC tower?

1. You don't usually turn down free money. The Feds may impose some regulations on the process, but there are all sorts of tricks you can use to make the numbers good enough for Federal approval and do what you planned originally. The financial aid from the Feds is usually worth being patient. There are other funding mechanisms. For example, CTA could just sell bonds to pay for the new construction... but they don't have enough money to pay them back. They barely break even as it is, in a good year. They could also boost sales taxes to pay for the new construction (in a county with the highest sales tax in the nation). To paraphrase Winston Churchill, Federal New Starts funding is the worst way to pay for a transit line, except for all the other ways.

2. The alignment in that map is general... It's my understanding that the Transitway would use Milwaukee.

3. Clinton can be grade-separated fairly easily... the condo buildings there have been designed with entrances that don't face onto Clinton. Canal would be much more difficult, so it won't be grade-separated.

4. The right-of-way used to go to about Columbus, where the railroad tracks ran along Illinois Street, sharing the same space as cars. Back when it was built, heavy traffic wasn't really a problem in Streeterville...

[ChicagoChicago]

Generally, monitors indicate a blind spot on the platform; the operator isn't able to see the entire train to safely operate the doors. Multiple monitors may be necessary if trains of different lengths (4 v. 6 v. 8-cars) have different berthing locations on the platform.
Thanks for the info. I didn't know that's what they were for. I'm not necessarily in agreement that it's needed, as this stop is no less obscured than any other stop on the brown line. I could see that argument being made at Chicago where the stop does bend somewhat, but Armitage is a straight line. Still seems like a waste of money.

[orulz]

Thanks for the answers, ardecila. The Carroll Avenue transitway is a pretty creative idea. Of course I'm pulling for streetcars rather than buses, because it would just be awesome to have streetcars roaming the streets of Chicago again, but either way it promises to be a popular service.

How about a south loop extension of the transitway? Rather than turning around at Jackson, stay on the Clinton/Canal pair as far as 14th. From there, curve east, and take either the St. Charles Air Line bridge or B&O bridge over the river. Follow the (soon to be abandoned) SCAL through the south loop, to the museums campus, Soldier Field, and McCormick Place. There might be other, better uses for the SCAL, but this is just one possibility.

[denizen467]

3. Clinton can be grade-separated fairly easily... the condo buildings there have been designed with entrances that don't face onto Clinton. Canal would be much more difficult, so it won't be grade-separated.

Is grade separation of Clinton (at Metra/Amtrak, I'm assuming) necessary for the transitway?
And if so, then over or under?

[ardecila]

^^ Yes, it's pretty necessary. Trains, both Metra and Amtrak, often block the crossing for minutes at a time as they wait for a track in the station, or they wait for clearance to leave. During rush hour, there are hundreds of trains coming out of that station, and crossing the tracks is nearly impossible. Cars can easily turn around and use the overpass at Desplaines, but that's a big inconvenience for pedestrians.

An underpass would make the most sense, so I assume that will be what is built. An overpass would block windows on the adjacent condo buildings and project traffic noise farther, although it would be cheaper.

[ardecila]

In other news, Valerie Jarrett has been tapped by Obama for some unspecific position in the Obama administration. She's also a good contender for his vacant Senate seat.

Either way, Obama will be putting a former director of the CTA into a very influential Washington position. Secretary of Transportation is possible, and so is Secretary of HUD.

[denizen467]

^^ Ok, so assuming that rail, even if it's LRT, requires a shallower incline than buses could tolerate, how close to Fulton must the slope begin, I wonder?

Also, the incline on the north side would presumably have to be a curving trench that returns to grade as it reaches Canal - correct?

But maybe the most interesting question is whether the Carroll Bridge is too low to have its down position as the default. Would this prevent tour boat clearance? (BVic has probably thought about this a lot.) If it does, will the answer be to rebuild the bridge slightly higher?

[ChicagoChicago]

Can anyone tell me why the CTA uses 3 different colors of paint on the L structures? I’ve seen off-white, manila-yellow, and burgundy. I would certainly understand if they decided to use different colors for different areas, but those are 3 colors just inside the Loop! Is it too much to ask for some uniformity?

[Chicago3rd]

Can anyone tell me why the CTA uses 3 different colors of paint on the L structures? I’ve seen off-white, manila-yellow, and burgundy. I would certainly understand if they decided to use different colors for different areas, but those are 3 colors just inside the Loop! Is it too much to ask for some uniformity?

What part of the el structure (assuming you mean bottom portion) is off white? The loop is that gold color, but it is being changed, at least on Wacker Drive to burgundy to match the bridges....whichs means CTA is way a head of you.....

[ChicagoChicago]

What part of the el structure (assuming you mean bottom portion) is off white? The loop is that gold color, but it is being changed, at least on Wacker Drive to burgundy to match the bridges....whichs means CTA is way a head of you.....
LOL @ CTA being ahead of anyone!

I'm aware that they repainted the Wabash portion of the L structure to match the bridges. Part of the structure on Wabash is white, in particular the beams that support the platforms and the platforms themselves.

I’m just curious why they weren’t uniform to begin with. From what I’ve read, the painting of the L was part of the Wabash Avenue Improvement Project and not really the CTA’s choice.

[ardecila]

Yeah, basically. Certain pieces of metal weren't painted because they would have interfered with the operation of the stations above.

CDOT was only allowed to paint portions of the structure that are accessible from the street, and only on the condition that the painting process wouldn't affect the trains or passengers above.

@ denizen467 - rail is pretty much out of the question... CTA has already decided to go ahead with a BRT program on 4 different streets, so you can bet they will be using BRT here as well. Using BRT also gives the flexibility to run bus lines to different destinations in Streeterville... one to Navy Pier, one to Northwestern, and one to Water Tower. Since most of this is grade separated, it will approach "true" BRT. The route will probably turn sharply east right after the Clinton underpass, and then run underneath the Metra viaduct alongside the Cassidy Tires warehouse to get to the Kinzie St bridge.

[denizen467]

^ So RIP light rail hopes! :(
If it facilitates an array of destinations throughout Streeterville then it's worth it I guess though.

What's known about the clearance under the Carroll St Bridge?

[Mr Downtown]

Carroll Street bridge????

[denizen467]

Carroll Street bridge????

Well what the heck is it called then. The rail bridge that is always raised just south of Kinzie. Both west of there and east of there this alignment is called Carroll Street. When BRT starts running there this bridge will presumably carry Carroll Street (as opposed to just a rail line), ergo, Carroll "Street" Bridge. Mister D smarty pants, share with us your bridge name omniscience.

(Disclaimer: on my third beer now)

[ardecila]

Technically, the bridge is called the Kinzie Street bridge, which is confusing, because Kinzie Street (the actual street, for cars and trucks) has its own bridge about 200 feet to the north.

And FYI, I've also had several beers...

[Mr Downtown]

Ah, now I understand that you mean the railroad bridge over the river. Usually just referred to as "Chicago & North Western Ry. Bridge over the North Branch of the Chicago River near Kinzie Street," though apparently the railroad inventory number was N-1511. Actually, Carroll Street Bridge wouldn't be a bad name—but Carroll Street never crossed the river.

The vertical clearance under the existing span is only 6.5 feet.

[denizen467]

^ & ^^ Ok, that's edifying to finally have info on this mysterious bridge (after many many years of prowling this city's maps and streets). But also, those names aren't super clear or useful. So as soon as non-rail vehicles become able to traverse this bridge, I say "Carroll Street Bridge" is one good option.

On the other hand, 6.5 feet??
Does this mean the bridge must be rebuilt or else this transitway plan will have to be routed across the river at Kinzie Street?

[Mr Downtown]

The most likely scenario, I think, is that the railroad bridge (now a Chicago Landmark) would be reset at a higher level à la the Kinzie Street Bridge.

[honte]

^ I agree, although it will be amusing and amazing to see this done.

I wish similar adaptive reuse could be found for the historic Division Street Bascule bridges (for autos), currently slated for demo.

[denizen467]

^^ Excellent. So the Kinzie Street Bridge was re-set from a lower position? How long ago, and do you know whether there are any pics or articles about it?

^ Last week an alumnus donated a record $300 million to the U of C graduate school of business. IMHO, a business school is not exactly an institution where a giant investment will reap tremendous dividends for society in the way of knowledge, research, inventions, culture, etc. ... It's really a staggering amount of money - if only donors like this would, even if in a small way, turn their philanthropic energies to recognizing the importance of historic preservation, we could, for a fraction of that money, save many cultural treasures like these bridges.

[honte]

^ There are some people who do support the cause, like Driehaus, but not enough by far.

The City put out a lame request that any other municipality needing a bridge come get the Division Street bridges, but this has been ineffective. Besides, I'd like to see them creatively reused here in Chicago, rather than carted off to someplace more respectful.

[orulz]

^ I agree, although it will be amusing and amazing to see this done.

I wish similar adaptive reuse could be found for the historic Division Street Bascule bridges (for autos), currently slated for demo.

How far north does the city plan on keeping the movable bridges? The replacement of old bascules with new fixed spans seems to be creeping further and further south, which is a terrible shame, not really because it limits taller ships, but more because these bridges are just cool relics of a bygone era.

[the urban politician]

California and other places are aggressively expanding rail/transit improvements, while Illinois' State Govt is gridlocked.

This is so beyond irritating.

[VivaLFuego]

^ In fairness, last year Illinois did approve hundreds of millions in annual new funding for public transit throughout Chicagoland. Of course we still desperately need a capital plan, but it's worth pointing out that in the end this region did step up it's investment to keep service (no thanks to Blago, of course).

[Mr Downtown]

How far north does the city plan on keeping the movable bridges?

Division Street is no longer required to open. Federal Register May 10, 2002 (Volume 67, Number 91) Page 31727-31730.

As for resetting bridges at higher elevations, this has now been done for both Cermak Road and Kinzie Street, both within the last decade. Both were essentially disassembled and then put back together. Cermak Road was widened and so reworked that it's hard to call it the original 1906 bridge.

I wonder how much the North Branch water level can vary? It seems like the water level could be allowed to drop a couple of feet one winter day, a couple of barges with cribbing could be nudged under the C&NW bridge span (in the down position), then the locks opened until the water level rose a couple feet above normal. Then the span would be supported by shore cribbing until the trunnion could be reset at the new level. These are the sorts of things you start thinking about after reading turn-of-the-century engineering journals. Similar things were done all over Chicago as the waterways were widened and improved.

[honte]

^ It's a great idea, this.

[ardecila]

Unfortunately, such a sledgehammer-and-fly solution is bound to have some undesirable effects on the ecosystem of the river... I hate to be a downer, though, and I really envy the creative thinking of those old engineers.

I'm sure, if the bridge is ever refurbished, it will simply be thoroughly documented, cut up, and put back together, with new pilings drilled. For all of our sakes, I really hope the foundation contractors are careful - especially in this area... :haha:

As far as the Division Street bridges go - is it possible that they could be re-used at Taylor and Polk Streets, where the city specifically needs new bridges? I brought this idea up awhile ago, although I'm not sure anybody commented on it. I assume the bridges no longer work at Division because they are 2-lane. 2-lane bridges, however, are exactly what's needed at the bridge sites in the South Loop.

[honte]

^ I can't see the city spending money on two-lane bridges... I'm sure they'd rather put in wider bridges and just have a large shoulder for the time being. Also I think those spans are going to need to be elevated to allow for the grade change at Canal?

The idea I had for Division Street was a simple one - use one bridge for eastbound, one for westbound. There is lots of vacant land around Halsted and Division near the river if Division needs to be widened somewhat to allow this.

[VivaLFuego]

Wouldn't it be nice if a 4-lane viaduct with operable bridge already existed crossing the river near Division/Halsted destined for general points westward, including the expressway? Too bad prior generations never built one (replete with breathtaking art deco reliefs) for us. Why, had there been such a piece of infrastructure providing capacity from Near North/Old Town to the west and the expressway, it might not have been deemed necessary to bulldoze 50% of a commercial district to widen North Avenue into 4 lanes. Really a shame there was never such an option contemplated.

Oh, wait.

[denizen467]

Both were essentially disassembled and then put back together. Cermak Road was widened and so reworked that it's hard to call it the original 1906 bridge.
So for Cermak it was almost like just building a new bridge using the old one's parts? Still, if that's what it takes to save those Goose Island bridges, especially if lengthening/widening etc. is needed so they can be used in another location, it's ok with me.

[OhioGuy]

Anyone know if all four tracks will be open at Fullerton by Thanksgiving? It looks quite close to being finished.

[honte]

So for Cermak it was almost like just building a new bridge using the old one's parts? Still, if that's what it takes to save those Goose Island bridges, especially if lengthening/widening etc. is needed so they can be used in another location, it's ok with me.

Well, that's what really irks me about the Division bridges. The city advertises to outsiders, "Hey, come take these perfectly reusable bridges away piece-by-piece and make us look green," but they can't figure out a way just to reuse them here?

[VivaLFuego]

Anyone know if all four tracks will be open at Fullerton by Thanksgiving? It looks quite close to being finished.

Not sure about the exact date at Fullerton, but full 4-track operation in the whole corridor (full service levels, and probably moving Purple back to the inner loop) is scheduled to resume right around the new year.

[ChicagoChicago]

Not sure about the exact date at Fullerton, but full 4-track operation in the whole corridor (full service levels, and probably moving Purple back to the inner loop) is scheduled to resume right around the new year.Purple back to the inner loop??? Would it skip Wellington and Diversey then? Would it just bypass Armitage?

[woodrow]

^^ No. Usually, the Purple Line runs the same tracks as the Brown Line from Belmont to the Loop, then runs inner track. WIth all the various track projects, they had it run outer loop like Brown Line. I hope it will return to inner track. I will ask my super high-up CTA friend this weekend.

[ChicagoChicago]

^^ No. Usually, the Purple Line runs the same tracks as the Brown Line from Belmont to the Loop, then runs inner track. WIth all the various track projects, they had it run outer loop like Brown Line. I hope it will return to inner track. I will ask my super high-up CTA friend this weekend.Ok. Inner LOOP. I was thinking inner TRACK on the 4 track red/brown. Interesting, I've only been riding the purple since 2006, so I've never seen it run inside.

[OhioGuy]

Not sure about the exact date at Fullerton, but full 4-track operation in the whole corridor (full service levels, and probably moving Purple back to the inner loop) is scheduled to resume right around the new year.

It's certainly exciting to be nearing the return of 4 track operation. Looking at both Belmont & Fullerton, it definitely looks as though Fullerton is quite a bit further along than Belmont. So that's what has me wondering if that station might possibly open by the end of the month with Belmont by the end of next month. Or at the very least I'm assuming Fullerton will open at some point ahead of Belmont.

[ShawnP.]

I just read that Chicago could be the hub of a high speed rail network. It would only take 3 hours to get to St. Louis. This beats the fluctuating gas prices and agony of traffic congestion. http://eastgatevillage.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/chicago-to-be-the-hub-of-nine-state-high-speed-network/

[MayorOfChicago]

I know a lot of people who would be very happy if they returned the Purple Line to the inner track.

The west loop workers would get their direct access to north bound trains back, and Clark/Lake and Merch Mart wouldn't have the huge crush of people from the west loop wandering up because they don't want to sit on the brown line all the way around the loop.

[ChicagoChicago]

I know a lot of people who would be very happy if they returned the Purple Line to the inner track.

The west loop workers would get their direct access to north bound trains back, and Clark/Lake and Merch Mart wouldn't have the huge crush of people from the west loop wandering up because they don't want to sit on the brown line all the way around the loop.I'm one of those wanderers... We're like cattle. Anybody ever noticed the stairs at Merch Mart have been worn down from all the traffic? It's kind of funny, but that may be the most used stairwell in Chicago.