[denizen467]

The cost would probably be enormous, though - as a low-level subway, relocating utilities would be an incredible pain in the ass. A regular deep subway requires you to relocate utilities only in station zones, but this would require complete relocation along the entire length of Monroe from Clinton to Columbus.

Hasn't Monroe Street been developed over the years with very minimal utilities underneath it, for the very purpose of a future transitway?

[10023]

Whoa.

Metra Phil Pagano killed in suicide: report

By: Greg Hinz May 07, 2010

(Crain's) — The longtime chief of Metra apparently committed suicide Friday morning, just as his employer was expected to fire him for financial irregularities.

Metra abruptly canceled its board meeting Friday morning and officials did not explain why.

A report on the Web site of the Northwest Herald newspaper cited sources who said Mr. Pagano apparently walked in front of a Metra train in Crystal Lake this morning.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=38143&ba=1

[k1052]

Hasn't Monroe Street been developed over the years with very minimal utilities underneath it, for the very purpose of a future transitway?

That's the story anyway but they never actually know what will turn up once they start moving dirt.

[VivaLFuego]

Of course people would use it. It would be extraordinarily popular. The cost would probably be enormous, though - as a low-level subway, relocating utilities would be an incredible pain in the ass. A regular deep subway requires you to relocate utilities only in station zones, but this would require complete relocation along the entire length of Monroe from Clinton to Columbus. You'd also have to carve out a new river tunnel, since there isn't an old one at Monroe, and said tunnel would also have to go beneath the tracks at Union Station. You might be able to get away with an at-grade intersection with Lower Wacker, but that might cause safety concerns.

The 1990s iteration of the distributor plan (the "circulator") used street-running light rail -- I forget if the final routing was down Monroe or Madison, but I'm pretty sure it was Madison -- which could operate fairly quickly and efficiently if coupled with intelligent traffic signal systems. Much more affordable than subway construction, but still not cheap, as obviously there'd still be the issue of the river; I seem to remember a figure in the $700 million range, which would put the present day cost at around double.

In the meantime, we can think about what might have been, circa 1965....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Distributor_Subway.jpg

EDIT: the cross-loop routing was down Madison, with the north/south artery being State Street; north of the river, the line extended north along Wabash, and there was the Carroll Ave component that then continued along Grand/Illinois to Navy Pier. Lines extended along lower Randolph and Columbus to service Illinois Center, and to the south, the line turned from State to Roosevelt, then south along Indiana to serve McCormick Place. The yard was to be at the end of a southward extension of the Canal/Clinton route, located a bit south of Roosevelt. Along with the LRT routes, there were a few planned complimentary bus routes to fill in holes in the distribution capability of the LRT, such as a bus circulator to northern Streeterville. Total capital cost was $689 million in 1994. The plan completed alternatives analysis and final EIS, being at the preliminary engineering stage before being killed.

[schwerve]

all of this has essentially remained intact in the long term city planning for 60 years, of course its just shifted from heavy rail (1960s) -> light rail (1990s)-> BRT (currently).

[OrdoSeclorum]

We have accepted a level of inertia that is appalling to me. It seems that Chicago has a mayor who seeks to appease unions and is uninterested in rail transit. Or maybe there has been too much depopulation in the outlying neighborhoods to justify expansion. Or perhaps we have invested in other areas like school buildings and tiff's for high rises. I don't know, but as a transit fan the current state of affairs at the CTA is troubling and depressing.


I am always happy to see new transit service and would like to see more. I'd love to see a circle line and Clinton subway.

That being said, transit isn't a contest where the city with the most lines wins. I feel that way sometimes, but it's an emotional response due to my chauvinistic feelings for my city. Transit is about quality of life for it's residents and making cities work. If we want to make our city work better via transit, building a bunch of new rail lines probably isn't the first thing on our list. It's making transit work better in the areas that already have good rail service. We should encourage denser development and discourage car use near rail stops on the Blue, Pink and Green lines and try to make transit more attractive to people who already have access to it. We should build dedicated bike lanes separated from traffic. We should build high-quality BRT/streetcars going North-South on the West side of the city and East-West on the North and South sides of the city.

Here are my personal development priorities: 1) Any transit solutions that makes getting around the central area easier, this makes taking transit to the central area more attractive and the whole system benefits. 2) Increased development density and improved transit quality along the existing system. 3) Low-cost, high impact improvements like BRT (*good* BRT) and attractive, safe bike lanes. 4) Circle Line and a South Lake Shore line.

[Nowhereman1280]

Someone tore down Italian Village and built a new tower. Maybe this is the mystery tower that Pandemonius teased us about once upon a time...

What? Thats looking to the East from Chase Plaza. That is Inland Steel building with the green and silver.

[ardecila]

What? Thats looking to the East from Chase Plaza. That is Inland Steel building with the green and silver.

Inland Steel is in the background. The building on the right side, in front of the Xerox Center, is a modern glassy tower on the site of Italian Village.

[denizen467]

What? Thats looking to the East from Chase Plaza. That is Inland Steel building with the green and silver.
Yes, and then Xerox is to Inland's right (catercorner), and Italian Village, just west of Xerox, is gone (as is the whole corner lot, with the weather bell thing).
Its replacement reminds me of Harris Bank, but that's further west, so I still wish Pandemonius would let us in on his mystery.

[Nowhereman1280]

Oh I see what you are talking about...

[spyguy]

(as is the whole corner lot, with the weather bell thing).
Its replacement reminds me of Harris Bank, but that's further west, so I still wish Pandemonius would let us in on his mystery.

Didn't the city say it wanted to buy the Bell Federal Building? So it might not matter...

[Taft]

More El "Garden Car" information from the the guy pushing the project:

http://chicagoist.com/2010/05/12/chicagoist_interview_joe_baldwin_an_1.php


Chicagoist: So what’s the update with the mobile garden?

Joe Baldwin: CTA’s approved with conditions.

C: For when?

JB: We’d like to launch it next spring. We have to get it paid for, insured (as part of the budget), and indemnified for legal risk. It's not a CTA project nor is any part of it being paid for by the CTA - that's typically the first misinformation to come up or be misread. The budget is close to $200,000 but I’m in Chicago so I’m doubling that. I know things will go over and I’d rather plan for it than have to wait another year. Our fundraising goal is closer to $400,000.

...

C: So what’s next?

JB: My next step is to get face time with companies and foundations and institutes to get the leverage to start getting the funds together, to work on a main corporate sponsor. I’m working with Pivotal Productions for a side event for the project I want to do called Take A Plant to Work Day. We’re gonna try to get a local grower to donate 10,000 plants and on the outer stops of the L and on the Metra, maybe even out in the suburbs, pass out a couple hundred plants per stop and then find a vacant space downtown close to a main exit point. People can leave the plants there or take them home or whatever. Some of the parts are still in the air but that’s one of the projects that will fold back into the campaign to get people interested in supporting the mobile garden. It’s experiential marketing. The point is to get people on board with the idea. Because tons of people love the idea but it’s one of those bipolar issues with art and nature: people love it but nobody supports it.

[lawfin]

More El "Garden Car" information from the the guy pushing the project:

http://chicagoist.com/2010/05/12/chicagoist_interview_joe_baldwin_an_1.php

This is just a plain bone-headed idea on several levels

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

^ It really, really is. I love installation art... when it's intelligent and well thought out. But this? Oy. The experience-- the artist writes that he wants it to "stop traffic"-- relies heavily on visual punch. But it appears the CTA is requiring that the car be covered, which sounds to me like it would make the whole thing DOA. Even if it weren't covered, plants take time to grow into their "container"/space. Maybe they would pack it full of mature specimens? Even then, I have a hard time imaging the garden would turn out as robust as it is in the renderings. The artist writes that he wants to use native plants and I can't help but think the end result may just appear to the average CTA user as a railroad car filled with dirts and weeds when it could otherwise be serving the real need for greater capacity.

Still, if it could be done on the cheap (and it does sound like an inexpensive project), sure-- give it a shot. But the artist is setting $400,000 as his fundraising goal. Wait-- what? Four hundred thousand? Really? How much did the Burnham pavilions cost? Shouldn't that amount lead to something, well... better?

And then there's the substantive question: What's the point? Is it supposed to be ironic because plants are sedentary? Is it some kind of environmentalist commentary? I don't see any hint of in-depth analysis in his interview; the guy actually sounds kind of vapid.

[schwerve]

This is just a plain bone-headed idea on several levels

if he wants to raise the money on his own to pay for it, he can have whatever he wants piggybacked on the end of an El train for all I care.

[ardecila]

Wait-- what? Four hundred thousand? Really? How much did the Burnham pavilions cost? Shouldn't that amount lead to something, well... better?

IIRC, the Burnham pavilions were $5 million apiece. $400,000 isn't too much for an installation that has to withstand 55-mph travel.

[ardecila]

It look long enough...

Skokie Swift station groundbreaking set for June (http://www.pioneerlocal.com/skokie/news/2285338,skokie-swift-052010-s1.article)
May 17, 2010
By MIKE ISAACS

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1382/downtownswiftstationren.jpg

The village next month will finally break ground and begin the construction phase of the new downtown Skokie Swift project, which is expected to conclude in the fall of next year.

A groundbreaking ceremony has been scheduled for 10:30 a.m. June 21 near Oakton Street and Skokie Boulevard where the station will be built. Construction on the long-awaited downtown station will be on-going for the next 15 to 20 months, officials say.

In the fall of 2011, another ceremony is likely to take place when the station is completed, officials sad.

Village trustees earlier this month approved three mandatory agreements -- one with ComEd and two with the CTA -- that clear the way for the project to move forward.

Officials had expected construction of the Skokie Swift station to begin last fall, but a delay in receiving federal grant money pushed the schedule back.

The process was also slowed down because the federal grant had to be processed through the Illinois Department of Transportation and did not come directly to the village.

As usual, it's IDOT's fault.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

IIRC, the Burnham pavilions were $5 million apiece. $400,000 isn't too much for an installation that has to withstand 55-mph travel.

Really? I thought they were 500k. Anyway, I don't think they're fabricating a car from the ground up but salvaging one. So, yes, 400k is too much, especially for the initial concept.

[SkokieSwift]

It look long enough...



As usual, it's IDOT's fault.

Ardecila, thanks for posting. When I was in town last week visiting my old stomping grounds, I was disappointed to see construction had yet to commence. I know a lot of anti-suburban forumers think this station is a waste of resources, but between downtown Skokie to the west and the relatively dense neighborhoods (where I grew up) around Oakton Park to the east, this station has a lot of potential to help revitalize the area. It will shave 20 minutes or so off the current bus commutes from downtown Skokie to the Howard station.

On a semi-related note, when I took the Skokie Swift last week, I clocked the trip from Dempster to Howard @ 7 minutes! There used to be some slow zones around downtown Skokie, but the train seemed to fly the entire way except on the Howard approach. At this speed, a commuter could potentially get from Oakton to Howard in 5-6 minutes!

[OhioGuy]

Good news on the Oakton station! Hopefully it will attract news businesses, shops, & restaurants to downtown Skokie in the future.

[Nowhereman1280]

Hopefully Skokie will keep the zoning dense around the new (renewed) station and build some TOD like many suburbs have done around their Metra Stations.

[ardecila]

Well, to some extent, Skokie's already had quite a bit of dense infill - basically the same stuff that went up on every major street on the North Side, 3-4 story walkups. No towers yet, but the area immediately around the station is an office/R&D park, a 1-story commercial district, and a park.

The Crafty Beaver lumber yard next to the site is an ideal site for TOD, but I love Crafty Beaver, so I hope they don't go anywhere.

The next few years should be decent for CTA. Stops at Oakton and Morgan will be rebuilt after they were removed decades ago. Grand/State will open fully, and Wilson and North/Clybourn will have most of the major problems solved in their respective renovations. The South Loop infill station project will go into design, and we'll see some progress on renovating Clark/Division.

We have a strong chance of receiving a BRT grant I think, and the implementation of that should be only a matter of months (posting signage, installing signal priority/boarding shelters, dealing with the inevitable lawsuits from shopkeepers, ordering buses). There's no major construction. If I'm not mistaken, the R-O-Y projects should also be submitted to the FTA for New Starts funding, which would be awesome.

[MisterMo]

The South Loop infill station project will go into design....

Has there been any decision regarding where this new infill station will be? I heard about a Green line stop at 18th street or 22nd/Cermak being kicked around a long time ago, but haven't seen any news in a while.

[nomarandlee]

Getting Around discusses rider's review with CTA

http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/automotive/commute/ct-met-getting-around-0524-20100523,0,6435995.column

CTA rider critiques new rail car
Getting Around discusses rider's review with CTA

Jon Hilkevitch
10:38 p.m. CDT, May 23, 2010

........Getting Around's opinion is that 20 years from now the trains will look and feel outdated, especially compared with some of the transit rail cars currently operating in Europe and Asia that sport aerodynamic contours, sophisticated air suspension for a more comfortable ride and other features.

........One of the first problems Baltzerus noticed is that from the inside he could see the rails through a gap at the bottom of the side doors, permitting the rumble of wheels and squeal of brakes to enter the passenger compartment.

In addition, the fluorescent interior lighting casts a "1970s pale, depressing, pasty drop-ceiling office feel,'' he said, adding that world-class transit systems have switched to light-emitting diodes (LED) that is available in warm tones and uses less electricity.

........"Good design does not cost any more than poor design, and the 5000 series car chassis looks and sounds substantially unchanged,'' Baltzerus said. "The CTA is planning to spend more than a half-billion on these trains. Now is the time to get it right because CTA riders will have to live with the results for another 40 years.......

..

[ChicagoChicago]

Why is it that Bombardier/CTA have trouble with voltage fluctuations in LED lighting, but Europe and Asia have figured it out? I swear, it's almost as if they purposely try to do things the antiquated way.

[Busy Bee]

Absolutely feels that way sometimes. Like some kind of inertia.

[Mr Downtown]

I think there is, in fact, a huge institutional bias against unproven technology. Conservativism in railcar design has served CTA very well over the years. Unlike in other cities, no CTA railcars have ever been retired or rebuilt early because of technological glitches or unforeseen problems. Instead, the various car series have soldiered on long after their expected lifespan, happily operating with older series cars, on any line they are assigned to.

[ardecila]

Has there been any decision regarding where this new infill station will be? I heard about a Green line stop at 18th street or 22nd/Cermak being kicked around a long time ago, but haven't seen any news in a while.

No, that's why I wasn't specific. A station at 18th would be centrally-located to serve the existing development in the South Loop, since it's within a short walking distance of many newer developments, but a station at Cermak would lay the groundwork for the dense skyscraper corridor that the city plans along Cermak from Clark to Calumet, and would be good for bus transfers on the 21.

Both stations would probably be overkill, although if the Cermak station was built between Cermak/23rd and the 18th station was centered over 18th, they might be far enough apart to attract distinct groups of riders.

[schwerve]

No, that's why I wasn't specific. A station at 18th would be centrally-located to serve the existing development in the South Loop, since it's within a short walking distance of many newer developments, but a station at Cermak would lay the groundwork for the dense skyscraper corridor that the city plans along Cermak from Clark to Calumet, and would be good for bus transfers on the 21.

Both stations would probably be overkill, although if the Cermak station was built between Cermak/23rd and the 18th station was centered over 18th, they might be far enough apart to attract distinct groups of riders.

was there ever any thought about placing the station at 16th? it seems more natural and could theoretically also leaves enough space for a cermak station in the distant future. It seems like it would be more expensive due to the track configuration and existing structures though I could also see significantly increased benefit. In addition to the better spacing it could be a stop on both the orange and green lines as well as cover the bulk of the residential in the south loop. Also it could possibly directly connect into the future linear air line park (I won't argue for or against, just stating it may exist) which would provide direct access to the lakefront and soldier field. If I could choose a spot in the south loop cost excluded, that would be it.

[ChicagoChicago]

I think there is, in fact, a huge institutional bias against unproven technology. Conservativism in railcar design has served CTA very well over the years. Unlike in other cities, no CTA railcars have ever been retired or rebuilt early because of technological glitches or unforeseen problems. Instead, the various car series have soldiered on long after their expected lifespan, happily operating with older series cars, on any line they are assigned to.

We aren't talking about cutting edge stuff here. Most of the technology CTA is dismissing has been around long enough to see 3rd and 4th generation technology on it.

[ChicagoChicago]

Does anyone know if CTA releases the raw data from "Bus Tracker" and whether that same data will be available for a train tracker?

Other city transit authorities have released this data, and private enterprise has taken it to new levels, enabling train time displays in coffee shops, 3rd party iphone apps, etc.

[VivaLFuego]

Does anyone know if CTA releases the raw data from "Bus Tracker" and whether that same data will be available for a train tracker?

Other city transit authorities have released this data, and private enterprise has taken it to new levels, enabling train time displays in coffee shops, 3rd party iphone apps, etc.

http://www.transitchicago.com/developers/

http://www.transitchicago.com/apps/

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicagosphere/2010/01/track-your-bus-over-coffee-in-wicker-parkbucktown.html

[Busy Bee]

We aren't talking about cutting edge stuff here. Most of the technology CTA is dismissing has been around long enough to see 3rd and 4th generation technology on it.

I agree. I think this goes beyond midwestern pragmatism. Smells more like good old fashion lack of vision and my oft stated failure to understand the user impact of good, smart design—system wide.

[ChicagoChicago]

http://www.transitchicago.com/developers/

http://www.transitchicago.com/apps/

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicagosphere/2010/01/track-your-bus-over-coffee-in-wicker-parkbucktown.html

Umm, Holy Cow!

Anyone interested in making some money? We could put a train/bus tracker monitor in virtually every Starbucks in Chicago. And charge a monthly fee to monitor it.

[emathias]

Umm, Holy Cow!

Anyone interested in making some money? We could put a train/bus tracker monitor in virtually every Starbucks in Chicago. And charge a monthly fee to monitor it.

You're a little late to the game on this one.

There are third-party apps for just about every smart phone out there, plus I think there are third-party desktop widgets for just about every computer OS out there. The front page of the CTA website has had a link for developers who want to interface with CTA data for over a year now, for crying out loud.

The CTA has made enormous strides over the past 10 years in how and what they communicate to the public, enough that at this point I honestly feel sorry for the agency because they still get criticized for problems they've fixed because people are simply too lazy (or maybe jaded) to see what's available. At any rate, while their new cars may not be so modern-looking, in many other ways this is a long way from your father's CTA. :)

[ChicagoChicago]

^^^
No need to be a dick.

I've yet to see any type of tracker in any business here in Chicago, so while some may have in fact thought it up, they haven't yet made it viable.

And for those of us that wonder every single day if they have enough time to squeeze in a cup of coffee between trains, it would be a welcome addition to my daily routine.

[Taft]

^^^
No need to be a dick.

I've yet to see any type of tracker in any business here in Chicago, so while some may have in fact thought it up, they haven't yet made it viable.

And for those of us that wonder every single day if they have enough time to squeeze in a cup of coffee between trains, it would be a welcome addition to my daily routine.

He isn't really being a dick...he's just telling you the facts.

I would also appreciate a bus tracker in my local shops. As viva tried to point out a few posts back, people are working on this and it is currently available at a couple places in wicker park:

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicagosphere/2010/01/track-your-bus-over-coffee-in-wicker-parkbucktown.html

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm not sure the huge gap in service you are describing is real. Though I will say: if you could give me system wide train tracking right now, I'd happily give you money in return.

[sammyg]

I've yet to see any type of tracker in any business here in Chicago, so while some may have in fact thought it up, they haven't yet made it viable.

And for those of us that wonder every single day if they have enough time to squeeze in a cup of coffee between trains, it would be a welcome addition to my daily routine.

Do you mean putting a laptop next to the cash register with bustracker on it? Suggest it to your local indie coffeeshop.

[Mr Downtown]

Yeah, I put a Bus Tracker screen in my condo building lobby last year. All you need is a computer that can run a reasonably modern browser.

Because I show both northbound and southbound buses, I just keep two browser windows open (be sure to install the Firefox extension Refresh Every). But CTA has recently made available a do-it-yourself web page (http://www.transitchicago.com/developers/diydisplay.aspx)exactly for such local installations.

Train Tracker will be here soon. It's already working a number of places around the system.

[bnk]

http://www.securityinfowatch.com/node/1316233

New security cams to be in place by the end of month

BY FRAN SPIELMAN
The Chicago Sun-Times
Updated: 05-24-2010 11:47 am

All 144 CTA rapid transit stations will be equipped with surveillance cameras by the end of this month, expanding the Big Brother reach of the nation's most extensive and integrated camera network.

By the end of this year, CTA buses and rail stations will have nearly 3,000 high-definition surveillance cameras -- up from 1,800 currently. Initially, cameras will be positioned at station entrances.

Ultimately, each station will have a "full complement" of 20 cameras. And later this year, the CTA will launch a pilot program so see "whether it's feasible to retrofit" older CTA rail cars with cameras. New 5000-series cars come equipped with cameras.

The cameras are being bankrolled, in part, by the $22.6 million in federal Homeland Security funds the CTA has received since 2006. The CTA is investing $19 million.



...

[Nowhereman1280]

I've yet to see any type of tracker in any business here in Chicago, so while some may have in fact thought it up, they haven't yet made it viable.
.

My condo building bought a flat screen monitor and a mini mac specifically for this purpose. The screen is mounted on the pillar by the door and shows not only all the local buses, but also the weather, time, and news stories. Its been up since about a month after Bus Tracker came out.

I don't really even use it anymore because I have Bustracker linked to my Nexus One. I wonder if I can set that up to use the GPS to automatically show all buses from the nearest bus stop?

[emathias]

My condo building bought a flat screen monitor and a mini mac specifically for this purpose. The screen is mounted on the pillar by the door and shows not only all the local buses, but also the weather, time, and news stories. Its been up since about a month after Bus Tracker came out.

I don't really even use it anymore because I have Bustracker linked to my Nexus One. I wonder if I can set that up to use the GPS to automatically show all buses from the nearest bus stop?

I don't know how well it works, but I think both bustracker and TreKing (which I prefer) have the ability to do that.

[ardecila]

Does anybody know how the 136 works? I'm curious as to why it only provides service in one direction. How do the buses return to the other end? Do the buses switch to some other route, like a 147 or 151, to make the return trip? Otherwise, they'd have to dead-head those buses, which seems like a big waste of money to me.

[jpIllInoIs]

http://www.transitchicago.com/news/default.aspx?Month=&Year=&Category=2&ArticleId=2628


6/3/2010

Elevator to be Added at Cermak Entrance

CTA President Richard L. Rodriguez and Chicago Transit Board Chairman Terry Peterson today announced the opening of a new entrance to the Red Line’s Cermak-Chinatown station. Located approximately one block north of Cermak on Archer Avenue, the new entrance will serve as the primary access point for customers while the main entrance to the station on the north side of Cermak is reconstructed and made accessible. The south entrance on Cermak also will be closed to customers beginning Friday night at 11 p.m.

"Infrastructure improvements like this are very important to CTA but are dependent on capital funding," said CTA President Richard L. Rodriguez. "Thanks to the stimulus funds we are able to renovate this station, provide a new entry point and use our scarce capital funds for other much needed projects. When the work is complete at Cermak-Chinatown, customers will be able to enjoy a more modern and accessible station with the added convenience of another entrance and exit."

Beginning Friday, June 4, both the north and south entrances on Cermak will be closed to customers so construction can begin. As a result, the westbound and eastbound #21 Cermak buses will undergo reroutes. The eastbound bus stop at Cermak/Wentworth will be eliminated. Eastbound #21 and #62 Archer buses now will stop in front of the new Archer entrance into the Cermak station.

Westbound buses will stop at Archer/Wentworth to allow customers to access the station at a signal controlled crosswalk rather than crossing in the middle of the road.

"Capital projects such as this require a significant amount of funding; however, they must be done if we are to have a reliable public transit system that serves all customers," said Chairman Peterson. "The availability of stimulus funds is a great opportunity to make improvements the agency otherwise couldn’t afford."

In addition to the creation of the new auxiliary entrance on Archer, the station renovation project involves upgrading the main Cermak entrance by replacing the stairs and escalator, building a new station house at street level on Cermak and constructing a protective perimeter, including posts and planters around the outside of the station. The main Cermak entrance sustained major damage as the result of a traffic accident in April 2008.

An elevator will be installed at the Cermak entrance making the station accessible to customers with disabilities. When construction is complete by the end of 2010, 92 of 144 CTA rail stations (65%) will be accessible.

Ridership at the Cermak station on an average weekday is 3,530. CTA’s Red Line is the busiest line in the rail system with 249,225 rides on an average weekday.

Total cost of the project is $12.5 million and is funded with American Reinvestment Recovery Act – also known as stimulus – funding. CTA received a total $241 million in stimulus funds. Projects funded through stimulus funds include the track renewal project in the Blue Line’s Dearborn Subway and the purchase of 58 hybrid articulated buses.

[Mr Downtown]

Does anybody know how the 136 works?

Two or three picks back, CTA switched to a new computerized program for run-cutting that basically looks at where a bus ends up as it completes one trip and what is the next trip that starts nearby, no matter what route it is. So a driver's run may now include three different routes and wander over a good chunk of the city. This has led to a tremendous increase in interlining. There has always been some; you might have a run that consists of two complete 147 round-trips and then a quick 157 trip in the peak direction only before returning to the garage or being relieved.

Supposedly deadhead mileage is reduced with this program, but there are two downsides. Drivers are not as familiar with their routes and it ended CTA's old official (but seldom practiced) policy that buses are always in service and passengers may ride even on garage pull-outs or pull-ins.

[ardecila]

I'm assuming this program has some function that matches specific bus types to routes based on ridership? The articulated, standard, and short buses can't all be used interchangeably...

[StatenIslander237]

Question for all forumers: I have enjoyed reading the debate about new CTA rail lines and new stations and BRT corridors and everything of the like on this thread. I looked back about ten pages, and I had a question for all the proponents of new lines throughout the city.

What, if ever, do you think would be an adeuqate new coding system for the CTA 'L' lines once colors become too confusing to distinguish them? I imagine having a Magenta line or Chartreuse line may be a bit complicated. :D As most or all of you know, New York's Subway uses letters and numbers to define service routes (i.e. the A train, the 6 train). The Paris Metro has 14 services known by their numbers (i.e. le ligne 7), and the London Underground's lines are colored, but known by their names (i.e. the Jubilee Line, colored silver). Even L.A.'s rapidly growing Metro system already has people talking about kicking colors to the curb within 50 years.

When do you all think such a new naming system may need to be implemented in Chicago (as in, how many expansions away from this are we?) and what type of names would you prefer (letters, numbers, full names, etc.)??

Keep up the lively discussion! :tup:

[Mr Downtown]

As the designer of the CTA map, I gave the matter some thought four years ago when the Pink Line was named (though I had no part in that decision). It's not really a problem of color theory, but of semantics. Which colors are the general public immediately able to name? I concluded that Silver and Gold could be used, though there are printing and display challenges. Black and White are obvious, but there might be political baggage to overcome. Yellow could be redeployed, and the Skokie branch called a Red Line Shuttle or something. Beyond that, I felt the most distinctive and recognizable colors would be Maroon, Aqua, Lime, and Magenta. Things are complicated by the CTA's decision some years back to translate the color names into Spanish. This is linguistically problematic: on one draft of the first Spanish edition of the map we used three different Spanish words for brown in three different sections (translated by different people)—and it's unhelpful, since none of the system signage uses the Spanish names so you have to translate in your head anyway.

So CTA could use colors for a long, long, time if it wants to. As for a different system, I would suggest the direction or richtung system used in most of Europe, indicating trains by their endpoints rather than an abstract name or number. Red Line trains would thus be marked Rogers Park or Roseland. Brown Line trains would go to Albany Park rather than Kimball. Green Line trains to Oak Park, Woodlawn, or Englewood.

[Busy Bee]

I would suggest the direction or richtung system used in most of Europe, indicating trains by their endpoints rather than an abstract name or number. Red Line trains would thus be marked Rogers Park or Roseland. Brown Line trains would go to Albany Park rather than Kimball. Green Line trains to Oak Park, Woodlawn, or Englewood.

^Good grief. What goes around comes around I guess.

[OhioGuy]

Considering the cost of building new rail lines, I can only see three additional lines as even remotely possible in the future: the circle line, the Clinton Street subway, and something in the Metra electric corridor. You could call the circle line the gold line, the Clinton Street subway the silver line, and the Metra electric corridor the gray line (although I guess extra care would have to be given to differentiate between silver & gray since the colors can be somewhat similar... maybe bronze would be a good color option since the line would serve parts of Bronzeville, though that too could be confused with gold). Beyond those three, it seems like any additional mileage of rail would just be extensions of already existing color-coded lines (red line south, orange line south, blue line west, and brown line west).

[Busy Bee]

All this is a bit like naming planets that haven't been discovered yet.

[StatenIslander237]

Thanks Mr. Downtown, and everyone else. It's true that it may be a long time before color-coding becomes a problem. I only wonder if it would become confusing as colors become more similar in appearance. Like would the Gold line not be confused with the Yellow line? It might be better to execute the redeployment of the Yellow color and come up with a less distinctive color for the less prominent Skokie line, as was said. Maroon could be confused with Brown also, and so on and so forth. A directional naming system may be what it evolves to naturally since it's already the Green line to Ashland/63rd or the Pink line to 54th/Cermak etc. As I mentioned with the Paris Metro, the only way to know which direction a train is going is to hear the number and the terminal station (i.e. la ligne 2 à Porte Dauphine). In New York, of course, we have the advantage of Uptown, Downtown, and direction based on which outer borough it's headed to, but I agree with the directional theory.

[ardecila]

Aqua is indeed a good color from a cartographic perspective, although from a conceptual perspective, it would be nice to reserve aqua for any future lakefront light-rail or BRT trunk line.

I'm assuming that the Circle Line, if built, would actually be CALLED the "Circle Line", while the other lines would retain their color names. On a map, gold would probably be the best choice, represented as a muddy yellow. There'd be no chance of confusing it with the Yellow Line due to their extreme separation at opposite ends of the map.

All the other heavy-rail proposals are, or can be viewed as, extensions of existing lines. Even the Clinton Street Subway would presumably receive a re-routed Red Line, leaving the State Street Subway for the Orange Line, Purple Line, or both.

[Mr Downtown]

What goes around comes around I guess.

Well, the historic CTA line names were a confusing combination of destinations and corridors. Lake, Dan Ryan, Milwaukee, and Congress were corridors, while Howard, Jackson Park, Englewood, Garfield, Humboldt, and Douglas were (more or less) destinations.

To the color-blind, the current color names are already just random words. I see that some signage is now using color stripes only, without the reinforcing words. Visitors don't know that the colored stripes are anything other than decoration.

[sammyg]

Has anyone gotten any pictures of the North/Clybourn reconstruction?

All they've done so far is reskin the old building with the kind of beige brick you see on a suburban bank. It looks nothing like an Apple store.

[ardecila]

Has anyone gotten any pictures of the North/Clybourn reconstruction?

All they've done so far is reskin the old building with the kind of beige brick you see on a suburban bank. It looks nothing like an Apple store.

Check out this Flickr set:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zolk/sets/72157621014018884/

[Busy Bee]

Ugh to the sconces. The rest isn't horrible, but has about all the charm of a 5/3 Bank branch.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ I was going to say, so apple, in all their progressive wisdom, decided that the beautiful moderne station should be "upgraded" to a cheap mcdonalds appearance... Good job Apple, way to shit up our subway stop...

[ardecila]

^^^ I was going to say, so apple, in all their progressive wisdom, decided that the beautiful moderne station should be "upgraded" to a cheap mcdonalds appearance... Good job Apple, way to shit up our subway stop...

At least Apple isn't touching the platforms, except to scrape/repaint.

Only Clark/Division and Harrison remain un-remodeled on the Red Line... :(

[denizen467]

^ Did Apple have a say on design, or were they just providing funds? The only thing I remember about Apple's rights was regarding naming rights and advertising in the station.

[Busy Bee]

Well at least the headhouse now seems to have more in common with the tacky cluttered mess that is the rest of the renovated downtown Red Line stations.

Futura vs. Optima? Futura wins every time.

[sammyg]

This caption says "Apple's contractors" I don't know if there's any basis to it or not.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zolk/4656219685/in/set-72157621014018884/

[Mr Downtown]

I'm pretty sure that Apple contractors did the work, because that would avoid the government bidding process, Davis-Bacon problems, Public Building Commission, aldermanic approval, etc. It's why those of us working to get the subway stations listed on the National Register were completely blindsided: we never even thought about a private business doing the evil deed.

[spyguy]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/ct-met-0614-suburban-commute-20100613,0,3151556,full.story

Reverse commute takes their time
By Dan Simmons
June 13, 2010

Amy McGee got to the bus stop and wrapped Carmen Cartagena in a hug so effusive it almost looked like a tackle. As two dozen other passengers waited glumly for the No. 606 bus on a recent drizzly morning, the women laughed and gossiped like giddy chums.

These two "bus buddies" shared the moment, a kind of we're-in-this-together embrace as they waited at a stop in Rosemont to begin the last leg of their grueling commutes.

[aaron38]

I haven't posted for a while, hasn't been much of interest to post. But Palatine is updating their master plan for 2010 and in it I saw this proposed "Palatine Connector" route with stops. The 4 in green are ones I added.

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r86/aaron38/misc/PalatineConnectorUpdate.jpg

Now the plan doesn't make any mention of technology so I'm not sure exactly what "stops" is supposed to mean. A streetcar? But realistically I think this could work really well as a new Pace bus route, and it makes sense as a way to start reconfiguring the suburbs, especially if the bus is given signalling priority.

First, it provides critical access between the downtown Metra station and Harper College, and in so doing passes by a grocery store shopping plaza and Fremd HS. It then heads north past the Village Hall/Rec Center, the new Police station / library / office park and a residential midpoint (green) before hitting the big box retail area at Rand/Dundee. Palatine is land locked, so the 2010 plan has that whole area being reconfigured to add in mixed use developments, replace a lot of big parking lots and add back in side street access, while keeping it a main commercial district. Palatine HS is located just south of the Rand/Dundee intersection, so has access as well. At Harper riders could transfer to the 696 bus for most of Schaumburg.

The route is pretty short, under an hour round trip with stops. So 4 staggered busses would give 15 minute service. If it's that reliable, it gives the entire downtown core and everyone along that route car-free access to almost everything they need in town. And it allows much of the town to get to the central area for fireworks, festivals and evenings without a car.

What do you guys think about something like this, shorter, more frequent bus routes that tie suburbs internally together? Sure there's a big chicken/egg problem and no funds. But it would encourage denser transit oriented development, better access to the Metra and make communities more cohesive. As a long term plan to focus new developments it's not bad.


Edit: Okay, so this proposal is essentially just replacing the Palatine portion of the Pace 699 route that was cut in the spring, with the Harper to Sch portion transfered to route 696. Since 699 was cut due to low ridership, is there even any demand for this proposal?

But I guess that's the question. Instead of a long low frequency meandering route from Palatine through Sch to Elk Grove Village that nobody used, is it better to have a much shorter and more frequent route that just focuses on the high density areas, with transfers at the endpoints? Is that a better way to provide service?

[ardecila]

I really don't understand why the bus goes up to Lake Cook and Rand. There's nothing there but used-car dealerships. That intersection has massive traffic on the turning movements, so you'll never make it pedestrian friendly, either. The proposed bus should extend to Deer Park, or get cut off at Hicks.

To make the transit service feasible in the short-term, you'd need some sort of major employer. Fortunately, Harper fulfills that role. The bus route, if it ran frequently enough and had nice facilities at Harper, might attract quite a few students and college employees.

I'm skeptical that a single 15-minute bus is enough to attract people looking for a transit lifestyle, though, especially in an auto hell like what exists at Rand/Dundee. Any new development there will still be pretty auto-centric functionally, although it could definitely be urban in form.

The details could make or break the bus route, too... building bus bays at each stop with a nice-looking shelter, and making sure that sidewalks exist in the area, would go a long way toward making the bus a feasible option for more than just the workers at the Wal-Mart.

It's interesting that Palatine is looking to redevelop the Rand/Dundee area, though. The mall with the Whole Foods in it is likely to get redeveloped soon, as Whole Foods is looking for any chance they can get to move into some nicer digs. They had an agreement with a developer to move to Kildeer about 2 years ago, but the developer couldn't line up construction financing.

[Mr Downtown]

Just as a matter of principle, I hate to see transit become balkanized, with Wilmette and Niles and Palatine running their own buses, paying inordinate attention to municipal boundaries, and not integrated with the regional system.

[aaron38]

I really don't understand why the bus goes up to Lake Cook and Rand.

It wouldn't anytime soon. The long term roadmap has that entire north area being a new planned development. But that's years and years away, if ever. So the route would probably just turn around at Rand/Dundee and head back south.

I'm skeptical that a single 15-minute bus is enough to attract people looking for a transit lifestyle, though, especially in an auto hell like what exists at Rand/Dundee.

I'm not sure it would either, not right away. But I think it could let a 2-car family go down to 1 car, especially for the central area where a lot of the condos only come with one space. The burbs are just too spread out with too many destinations to not depend on the car for a long time.

But if a transit corridor is established and all new high density development is focused on it, then usage will increase long term as density increases. Rather than try to serve all needs, mass transit should focus on replacing the numerous high frequency short trips that people make on a daily basis. And then use that pull to draw in more businesses and services to the areas people are already going to.


Just as a matter of principle, I hate to see transit become balkanized, with Wilmette and Niles and Palatine running their own buses, paying inordinate attention to municipal boundaries, and not integrated with the regional system.

I don't want that either, but I also don't see a problem with routes that focus on interconnecting a community, if there are transfers at the borders. So a rider transfers at Harper to Sch. And Palatine already has the Metra. It'd take a lot of rolling stock to provide higher frequency transit along the line than the Metra already does. Why duplicate service?

There's nothing but low density residential to the North and West of Palatine. That leaves East and South. What I'd rather see is another Pace route that connects central Palatine to the Palatine Rd. / Arlington Heights Rd. shopping area, south to downtown Arlington Heights, south to the shopping at Golf, over to Woodfield and back up to Palatine. One loop that connects Palatine, Arlington Heights and Sch, along a route that's aleady carrying a lot of repetitive vehicle traffic.

Use one route to travel between burbs, and then transfer to a local that shuttles inside the burb. It's a different model, but when gas goes back to $5/gal, I think it would be well used.

[emathias]

Fire in Red Line Subway (http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/06/firefighters-respond-to-smoke-in-red-line-subway.html)

The fire involved creosote-soaked railroad ties, said fire officials. What ignited the fire is under investigation, but Langford said the railroad ties do occasionally catch fire during the summer heat.

Didn't the CTA just spend millions of dollars in 2008 to replace the wood ties with concrete ones? Why would there still be wood ties in the subway?

[Hayward]

I thought they just replaced the brackets or whatever they are called that holds the rails to the ties. Part of it was just leveling the tracks for a much better ride. I don't recall seeing new ties during that replacement just brand new shiny brackets which of course are now covered in grime

Anyway, the smoke was being exhausted through chases right over by my building. I'll post more shots maybe later. I saw it at the tail end. I heard fire trucks for nearly 30 minutes but since I hear them all the time, I tend to ignore it. Had I gotten down there earlier you would see the whole street covered in black smoke. If you search around online you can find photos taken in the subway cars from phones. It's bad. The CTA is going to have some explaining to do. The way their spokesperson explained the situation is alarming. "catch fire occasionally" Whatever, how about catch fire never?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4719167899_f281eae5d0_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/4719198835_906f00db6d_b.jpg

[ardecila]

I thought they just replaced the brackets or whatever they are called that holds the rails to the ties. Part of it was just leveling the tracks for a much better ride. I don't recall seeing new ties during that replacement just brand new shiny brackets which of course are now covered in grime...

Those would be "tie clips", I think.

It's my understanding that the ties were only replaced with concrete in degraded sections. I know the State Street Subway has concrete south of the river, but I dunno about north... those may have always been wood.

Most of the tie replacement was in the Dearborn Street Subway - CTA really focused on that after the derailment 2 years ago, and they received a hefty amount of stimulus dollars to revamp the track over there.

[emathias]

I thought they just replaced the brackets or whatever they are called that holds the rails to the ties. Part of it was just leveling the tracks for a much better ride. I don't recall seeing new ties during that replacement just brand new shiny brackets which of course are now covered in grime
...

I know for certain that at least some of the ties (http://www.transitchicago.com/assets/1/board_presentations/0804constructionreport.pdf) in the subway were replaced with concrete, and I'd thought they all had.

...
It's my understanding that the ties were only replaced with concrete in degraded sections. I know the State Street Subway has concrete south of the river, but I dunno about north... those may have always been wood.

Most of the tie replacement was in the Dearborn Street Subway - CTA really focused on that after the derailment 2 years ago, and they received a hefty amount of stimulus dollars to revamp the track over there.

The derailment was actually 4 years ago.

Perhaps they only did concrete in certain sections of the Red Line, but I was pretty sure they did the whole thing that way, but I can't be completely certain. Hopefully someone can find out.

[nomarandlee]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/transportation/2413940,CST-NWS-ride21.article

RTA has $24 billion repair bill
Agency says it needs money for CTA, Metra and Pace infrastructure

June 21, 2010

BY MARY WISNIEWSKI The Ride

The region's transit system needs about $24 billion in capital spending over the next 10 years, according to a Regional Transportation Authority report to be released Thursday.

That's "billion," with a "b."

The money is needed for repairs to CTA, Metra and Pace's infrastructure, according to the RTA. That includes trains, buses, rail bridges, rails, stations and other facilities.

Of that $24 billion, $13 billion is for backlogged improvements, which means vehicles and structures that are already beyond their useful life, according to RTA spokeswoman Diane Palmer. Old equipment means operating expenses that could go into improving service is instead going into repairs.

Gov. Quinn signed legislation last year giving $2.7 billion in capital expenses over five years to the RTA. But the money hasn't come yet, because the state hasn't figured out how to raise it.

"Everything was signed, just not delivered," said Palmer.

A more detailed report on capital needs will be presented at Thursday's meeting.

Transit agencies across the country are having trouble getting capital funding. The Federal Transit Administration has found that transit agencies face a $78 billion backlog deferred projects.
..............

[Busy Bee]

The Federal Transit Administration has found that transit agencies face a $78 billion backlog deferred projects.

Honestly, this seems like it would be higher. More like 200 B if you throw in wish list projects.

[VivaLFuego]

The creosote-soaked wood tie explanation is strange, since there aren't any wood ties left except in the subway at the special trackwork (like the crossover south of Grand or under Division/Clybourn). The amount of smoke was such that debris fire also seems unlikely. Given that it occurred at the curve, my unofficial and uninformed guess (I've been in Denver so have nothing first-hand to offer) is that the grease on the curve caught fire, producing a prolonged smoky burn without highly visible "flames." I suppose it's possible an old wood tie was left down there after the construction, and it somehow caught fire, but the apparent amount of smoke involved suggests more than a little half-tie being on fire.

Somewhat presciently, modernized subway ventilation systems are one of the many backlogged capital projects for all of the older, pre-UMTA subway systems.

[emathias]

The creosote-soaked wood tie explanation is strange, since there aren't any wood ties left except in the subway at the special trackwork (like the crossover south of Grand or under Division/Clybourn). The amount of smoke was such that debris fire also seems unlikely. Given that it occurred at the curve, my unofficial and uninformed guess (I've been in Denver so have nothing first-hand to offer) is that the grease on the curve caught fire, producing a prolonged smoky burn without highly visible "flames."
...

Once again, Viva is on the money:

Crains:
CTA fire may have started when track grease ignited (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=38628)

[ArteVandelay]

The initial reports regarding creosote soaked ties were 100% incorrect - as Viva said, it is the grease that caught fire. This is very similar to a fire about a year ago in the same area.

The fire itself is likely caused by a large electrical arc that can occur between the rails in sharp curves. Throughout the system in most locations one of the running rails contains a large negative current for the signal system, and the unique design of the restraining rails in these curves results in the potential for a large electric arc. Between the arc, garbage, and grease, you have the makings of a smoky fire.

CTA has been trying to get an updated ventilation system installed for years, but like anything else, it would be very costly and there is no money. In all likelihood it was a very small fire - but it doesn't take long for a small grease fire to fill a tunnel with an unbearable amount of smoke if ventilation is lacking.

[ardecila]

The Red Line northbound between Chicago and Clark/Division was agonizingly slow today... I'm assuming that was fire-related?

[Hayward]

There may be some damage.

Speaking of grease. I hate walking along state between Bellevue and Oak where it's as if grease or some slippery substance was just poured over the sidewalks. Even more slippery when you walk across the subway grates. It was incredibly annoying and I have no idea where it all came from, but it stank horrible and the sidewalks were slippery.

[spyguy]

http://chicagoist.com/2010/06/23/bike_sharing_finally_comes_to_chica.php

Bike Sharing (Finally) Comes to Chicago
By Lindsey Miller

Mayor Daley announced at the Bike to Work Week Rally last week that Chicago is getting a bike share program come July. He's been talking about this for many years, so we're glad it's finally happening. Chicago is following Denver's lead and using the B-cycle bike-share program, which seems to have been quite popular there since it started in April with 500 bikes and over 18,000 rides so far.

In Chicago, riders will need to have a membership card to get a bike and lock (helmet not included). Cards are $10 for one day, or $35 for 30 days, $45 for 60 days, and $55 for 90 days. The first half-hour on the bike is free, and each additional half hour is $2.50. Bikes will be available for pickup at McCormick Place, Museum Campus, Buckingham Fountain, the Chicago Park District headquarters at 541 N. Fairbanks Ct., and two downtown locations to be announced. Drop-offs are at any B-station, Navy Pier, North Avenue beach, Millennium Park, and any Bike & Roll rental station.
---

Given the price points, does anyone find this an attractive option?

B Cycle station in Denver
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/4420/4595655146f4383849b9b.jpg
tracy out west / flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/altmania/4595655146/)

[Mr Downtown]

That's a pretty stiff price for bike rental, which is normally $20-25 per day. Odd that they're starting with the visitor market, which is already well served by private firms at many of those same locations.

[Taft]

There may be some damage.

Speaking of grease. I hate walking along state between Bellevue and Oak where it's as if grease or some slippery substance was just poured over the sidewalks. Even more slippery when you walk across the subway grates. It was incredibly annoying and I have no idea where it all came from, but it stank horrible and the sidewalks were slippery.

This is probably 100% coincidental, but isn't that almost exactly where the fire/smoke was during the red line incident?

Is it possible that the two are linked? That something spilled on the surface leaked onto the tracks and eventually caught fire?

[emathias]

This is probably 100% coincidental, but isn't that almost exactly where the fire/smoke was during the red line incident?

Is it possible that the two are linked? That something spilled on the surface leaked onto the tracks and eventually caught fire?

My guess is that some of it's from those nearby restaurants, whether it's spilled garbage bins or precipitation from grease-laden smoke, although some definitely sounds like left-overs from the fire and/or response.

[emathias]

...
Given the price points, does anyone find this an attractive option?
...

The hourly charge seems acceptable, but what's with the membership card fees? That's just absurd!

[Chicago Shawn]

I would use it if there are neighborhood locations added. Until then, its too pricey for its limited scope. Its not expensive if multiple locations blanket inner-city neighborhoods, because you wouldn't be on the bike for more than a 1/2 hour to hour at a time. This is how it works in Paris, you keep checking bikes in/out every half hour, and your rides are free.

[begratto]

I would use it if there are neighborhood locations added. Until then, its too pricey for its limited scope. Its not expensive if multiple locations blanket inner-city neighborhoods, because you wouldn't be on the bike for more than a 1/2 hour to hour at a time. This is how it works in Paris, you keep checking bikes in/out every half hour, and your rides are free.

This is also how it works in Montreal, where the central neigbhourhoods are blanketed by 5000 Bixi bikes spreaded over 400 stations. You can never more than 2 blocks away from a station. See the map (http://montreal.bixi.com/the-stations). The pricing is somewhat similar to the one in Chicago: $5 for a 24 hours "membership" (you can also get monthly or yearly passes), and then it's free, as long as you keep each of your rides shorter than 1/2 hour. It's hugely popular.

[sammyg]

if you could add this to your transit card (like I-Go) that would be great

[VivaLFuego]

if you could add this to your transit card (like I-Go) that would be great

When the Chicago Card was first promoted and introduced circa 2003-2005, the idea was that eventually it would indeed function as basically a universal transportation card: transit, car-sharing, taxis, rentals, possibly even parking, etc.

As with most strategic plans, this dream too only lasted a few years in reality. The current trend in the transit industry, and CTA is making some moves to join in, is to completely outsource fare collection to an intermediary, presumably a bank, to issue the fare media (card/fob/whatever) and deal with the actual transactions, customer service, equipment maintenance, and so on, with revenue then remitted to the transit operation on some percentage or fixed-fee basis similar to the advertising contracts. At this point, the more likely scenario than the current Chicago Card is basically you'd have a credit card with a smart chip, or possibly some little keyfob, issued by MegaConglomerateBank, for universal quasi-instant payment. Depending on the RFID technology, this could potentially even remove the need to take anything out of your pocket, and fare collection would occur more similar to Open Road Tolling.

[VivaLFuego]

CDOT went to bid for an Alternatives Analysis study for the Carroll Avenue transitway. Solicitation materials here:

http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/dps/ContractAdministration/Specs/2010/Spec79089.pdf

Nothing too noteworthy. The original concept of an Ogden-Carroll transit line is officially scaled back only to the West Loop <--> River North portion of an eventual downtown distribution system that would also connect West Loop to East Loop. The study would be structured to conform to FTA Small Starts (under $250m) and New Starts programs. A small starts project, which based on cost would obviously be a bus project, could be up and running much faster than a new starts project, so there will be some interesting cost-benefit tradeoffs in a year or two when the "locally preferred alternative" is being refined.

[Busy Bee]

^At this point I'd rather wait for new starts funding for a full fledged light rail link than settle for a lame underground bus that will probably instantly be deemed outmoded and ill-suited.

[ChicagoChicago]

By the time they build the damn thing it will be too little, too late.

[Mr Downtown]

This particular route is much better suited to BRT than light rail, because you can do the circulation at both ends on ordinary streets without the engineering problems of light rail that eventually doomed the Central Area Circulator in the 90s.

[Busy Bee]

^I disagree. I think the climate in which the original early 90's circulator was proposed couldn't be more different now, where more and more not just industry people and advocates, but everyday people understand and want a modern fixed rail system, because of it's "psychological" and real dependability and the huge generation of private investment that is understood to come from new public transport rail infrastructure.

[ardecila]

I've been waiting for this... but I'm with Mr. D. Allowing the buses to transition onto street-level allows them to serve multiple destinations, and to detour around accidents and so forth. Street-running light rail may work in the sleepy downtowns of Dallas, Portland, and Charlotte, but in the extreme traffic of Chicago, it's just not gonna happen. There's a reason New York doesn't have light rail. In Europe, light rail is only a solution in suburbs or medium-sized cities. Of course, you can certainly use light rail in dense places, but only if it's grade separated somehow. You might be able to make it work somewhat if you shut down a street and converted it to a transit mall, but which streets can we afford to lose?

On the other hand, sending the buses from the transitway onto unmodified city streets with the worst traffic in the city is not the greatest idea. Signal priority is often bandied about, but it's not a good idea for the Near North, where the lights are already coordinated and signal priority would only mess up the system that prevents literal gridlock.

Prepaid boarding, on the other hand, and rush-hour street parking prohibitions (to allow for 3 buses to queue at each stop) would go a long way towards making the buses run more quickly. Michigan Avenue, in particular, really needs this stuff. I was at Water Tower today and was astonished at the 30-something people trying to board a 147. Prepaid boarding would greatly reduce the problem, and it would prevent tourists from fouling up the bus, in the place where the tourist concentration is highest.

[VivaLFuego]

Tend to agree with ardec --- bus can work fine if and only if it includes significant amounts of pavement with bus exclusivity or priority, with significant additional benefit from pre-paid/honor-based fare collection. To answer the question of "which streets can we lose?" the one that always comes up is Monroe, which one could imagine supporting a facility somewhat reminiscent of Denver's 16th Street, whose buses are very user-friendly and well-utilized. North of the river, one could postulate that Hubbard or Kinzie would make better bus malls than underground-out-of-sight Carroll Ave, depending on travel patterns in the area and whether the ideal service would be more streetcar-style (frequent stops, short trips) or fastest-possible connections between two or three endpoints (e.g. minimize travel time from the rail stations to Michigan Ave). While Carroll might seem ideal for said 'express' service, there is the consideration that Lower Wacker and Lower Michigan already exist, and depending on riders' actual origins and destinations, the travel market could arguably be served by a more modest investment in pavement/signal/vehicle projects for the 12X-series routes that already connect west loop to the Mag Mile/Streeterville/Navy Pier/Illinois Center areas.

I don't remember offhand --- when N-S Wacker is rebuilt, where will the access/egress locations be in each direction? I know headed WB/SB there is an exit onto Randolph, which allows for convenient access to the contraflow bus-only lane on Canal serving Ogilvie, but seem to recall that the NB/EB direction was more problematic for gracefully feeding buses.

[Busy Bee]

In Europe, light rail is only a solution in suburbs or medium-sized cities.

Ardecila, I'm shocked at how wrong you are about this. Heard of Berlin? Rome? Prague? Budapest? Vienna? These are very large cities with street running light rail/tramways. Some may have forms of grade seperation (minor curbs, surface material) but they do a lot of mixed traffic street running. I see NO reason that a fixed rail system with as much grade and mode seperation as possible couldn't coexist and thrive on ANY street in Chicago. Are we forgeting that we used to have the largest streetcar network in the country?

[Mr Downtown]

^Largest in the world. Which we got rid of because the streetcars were always getting stuck in traffic!

[Busy Bee]

^One of the reasons. Imagine if instead of converting to trolleybus and diesel bus, the CTA had modernized those corridors (always comes to mind:Ashland), done central row partial grade separations(picture any number of European examples), trolley priority signaling (was there a primitive signal tech at the time) and coordinated streetscaping. OH if we could go back in time and just shake those fools.

[Segun]

I've never been to those European systems besides Amsterdam, but I have ridden the grade separated systems in Toronto, SF, Boston, Houston, Portland, and LA, and I'm not sold. I don't find them to be that more efficient and faster than a bus. The most grueling line I've been on is the Green Line from DTLA to Long Beach. The portions of the trip that are completely separated from the street run fast, but at the beginning and the end of the ride, it feels like the scenic railway at Six Flags Great America. And to make matters even more complicated is that there's almost no traffic in the industrial area it runs through on the way to Downtown LA. It just creeps. In Houston, the light rail running down main street took twice the time driving. Same thing with Portland. I got off the train and just took a taxi the rest of the way to the airport because it was so slow. I used these as illustrations because they're relatively new, as opposed to SF, Toronto and Boston, which also run slowly. These ideas sound good in theory, but when the maximum speed is 25 MPH, it doesn't offer much of an alternative to a bus. Hell, I'd rather have dedicated bus lanes, especially in a city with never-ending commercial streets like Chicago.

[lawfin]

^Largest in the world. Which we got rid of because the streetcars were always getting stuck in traffic!

Buses clearly solved that problem extraordinarily well:whip: :jester: :shrug: