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The North One
Sep 8, 2017, 4:46 AM
I mean, that's not surprising. lol

animatedmartian
Sep 8, 2017, 4:01 PM
Detroit desperately needs that type of disruption.

The auto industry, with its sharp downturns and having matured long ago, has also been the very reason why Detroit remains stuck in neutral. It's hardly creating new jobs or making capital investments that would generate the type of population and economic growth that other cities are experiencing.

If you want Detroit to become like Denver, Minneapolis, Seattle, etc., landing Amazon *NEEDS* to happen. If you're OK with (metro) Detroit remaining the same way it's been since the 70s, then yeah, you probably wouldn't too much care about landing Amazon

I was thinking it'd be natural and homegrown change, not necessarily a shotgun blast with an already rapidly growing IT company. Even though Detroit has a lower relative COL, Amazon could bump it at such a rate that the backlash would be similar to the backlash in Seattle. But anyway, that's all even if Amazon considers Detroit at all let alone actually making the decision to locate here.

Besides that, why would Amazon build such a massive new base in a new city rather than creating smaller regional HQs in multiple cities? Most companies do that or just relocate the HQ entirely. It seems like an unusual process in order to achieve a less than obvious goal.

subterranean
Sep 8, 2017, 4:25 PM
Besides that, why would Amazon build such a massive new base in a new city rather than creating smaller regional HQs in multiple cities? Most companies do that or just relocate the HQ entirely. It seems like an unusual process in order to achieve a less than obvious goal.

The obvious goal is to maintain their Seattle presence while making the rest of the continent trip over themselves rolling out the tax-incentive welcome mats. A single, second location, with the enticement of the possibility of 50,000 employees, makes things relatively simple: show us all your cards.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 8, 2017, 4:29 PM
Reading through the NY Times comment section, there's a surprisingly significant number of people pulling for Detroit to land this.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 8, 2017, 4:33 PM
I was thinking it'd be natural and homegrown change, not necessarily a shotgun blast with an already rapidly growing IT company. Even though Detroit has a lower relative COL, Amazon could bump it at such a rate that the backlash would be similar to the backlash in Seattle. But anyway, that's all even if Amazon considers Detroit at all let alone actually making the decision to locate here.

Besides that, why would Amazon build such a massive new base in a new city rather than creating smaller regional HQs in multiple cities? Most companies do that or just relocate the HQ entirely. It seems like an unusual process in order to achieve a less than obvious goal.

Concerning COL, Detroit is so ridiculously cheap and has so many other fundamental issues it's dealing with on a greater scale than other cities that it would take quite a bit of time before it becomes expensive like Seattle (and thus "unattractive"). Heck, even Atlanta, Dallas and Houston are more expensive than Detroit these days and they're still growing like gangbusters.

As far as the 2nd paragraph, to be fair, Amazon isn't "most companies." What other company do you know owns a major newspaper, a major grocery store chain and builds its own electronic devices (never mind its "core" business)?

LMich
Sep 9, 2017, 3:30 AM
We get the first details of what Gilbert has planned for the Book Tower and Building because of his proposal to demolish another part of the complex for a future parking garage. Bedrock's reasoning is that the old two-story Book Tower commmunity center built in 1926 was building to support a 81-story tower that never panned out, so that it was always meant as a temporary structure. Bedrock is proposing a 500-spot, 12-story garage which I assume would have ground floor retail.

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-a60dd9d4f6d7f75f.JPG
Tanya Moutzalias

Historic Book Tower attachment could be demolished for parking garage in Downtown Detroit (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/gilbert_seeks_to_demolish_book.html#incart_river_home)

By Dana Afana | MLive.com

September 8, 2017

A long-vacant, two-story structure attached to the iconic Book Tower in Downtown Detroit could be demolished and replaced with a 12-story, 500-spot parking garage.

Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert's Bedrock real estate firm will submit a proposal on Sept. 13 to the Historic District Commission seeking to demolish the structure at 1209 Washington Blvd. with conditional review of future architecture for a parking garage.

Give that so much of the complex is being renovated, I'm not against this as I'd otherwise be. My only hope is that someone will push them to include the facade of the existing two-story building. I don't see why they couldn't do this.

As for the plans for the Book Tower & Building, itself:

Bedrock's plan for the entire Book structure involves 23 floors of residential units, a hotel, a few floors of office and event space and one or two stories of retail. The plan involves 100 residential units and 200 hotel rooms.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 9, 2017, 11:47 AM
I will admit I was a bit irritated to find out that both Ann Arbor and Oakland County are submitting their own separate bids. For all intents and purposes, being a part of Metro Detroit, they would be far better served if they poured their energy into a Detroit bid (as a stronger Detroit that's competitive with cities like Dallas or Atlanta will no doubt significantly benefit housing values in Oakland County and the University of Michigan).

I feel the same about Grand Rapids as well. Although it's slightly bigger and technically on the west side of the state, they don't even have the big city infrastructure Amazon desires.

IMO, it should be a combined statewide effort by all to get this in Detroit (who needs it more than any city), especially downtown Detroit. No ifs, ands or buts.

LMich
Sep 11, 2017, 4:20 AM
Some nice, little infill going on in Woodbridge.

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-4a87a2e241efe0fb.JPG
Tanya Moutzalias

Developers, residents coact to build 27 homes in historic Detroit district (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/developers_detroit_historic_di.html#incart_river_home)

By Ben Solis | MLive.com

September 10, 2017

DETROIT - A New York-based development company in Detroit is seeking approval from the city's Historic District Commission to build 27 new homes on Trumbull Avenue and Lincoln Street in the historic Woodbridge Farms neighborhood.

The move is supported by the district's residents who are working on the designs with the developer, Procida-Diggs.

Procida-Diggs plans to present its project before the commission at 5:30 p.m. Wednesday.

If approved, developers hope to begin construction by the spring of 2018.

Details:

Procida-Diggs plans to erect 19 homes on Trumbull Avenue starting at the corner of Brainard Street, working its way north, said Mario Procida, a co-principal on the project.

Each home, complete with a basement and a private backyard, will include three bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms. Procida calls the homes "Lutyens-esque," referencing British architect Edwin Lutyens.

Lutyens operated between the late 1800s and into the 20th Century. He's responsible for crafting many idyllic country houses, public buildings and striking war monuments in the United Kingdom and Australia.

Procida told MLive that his homes have a "modernistic interpretation of historical references."

On Lincoln Street, Procida and co-principal Douglass Diggs want to build eight more homes with the same look and feel.

The developers say the city didn't want them building faux-historicism, which they hadn't planned to do, anyway, so they'll be building modern homes with historic proportions, massings.

More photos from Tonya Moutazlias (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/developers_detroit_historic_di.html#incart_river_home) of the neighborhood:

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-1e426c35622765ec.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-704f3133413b45c3.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-c0a9ed086065a046.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-d3c3a7dcc1b20d22.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-b4b64bd988d5da88.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-bda3f1c15038ba99.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-31b69d8df3b99e85.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-a4fc9c6ee4a9058b.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-b8671a53714d672b.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-5196c123e88d37ac.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-a516b4a13e51672f.JPG

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/08/-472744f612ec2c79.JPG

Docta_Love
Sep 11, 2017, 5:16 PM
Here's a very interesting article as Mathew Moroun says "if we decide to really push this" is the key and i'm not going to break out the champagne because of talk of turning the concourse into a mass transit hub, but none the less this would be the best possible outcome. However this could just be another PR ploy but i'm hearing what i want to hear so ill keep listening for now.


Moroun's vision for Detroit depot? Trains

September 11, 2017
Crain's Detroit Business
By CHAD LIVENGOOD

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/main_image/7948796/moroun-trainstation-main3.jpg?itok=uLq0cHyr

From mini-mall to car museum, Matthew Moroun has heard every idea imaginable for what to do with the expansive concourse of the long-vacant Michigan Central Station train depot in Detroit.

But he’s starting to settle on an ambitious, if not audacious, concept that he calls “the oldest idea for the depot.”

Trains.

Like the kind that carried passengers to and from the Detroit train station for nearly 75 years before Amtrak ceased service in 1988 and the abandoned depot began a long decline that mirrored the city’s descent.

“It’s crazy, right?” Moroun said in an exclusive interview with Crain’s. “The idea that we’re most focused on now, the one that seems to make sense, is in the name of the building and it’s what it used to be used for.”

The son of billionaire transportation mogul Manuel “Matty” Moroun seems serious about making the depot a mass transit hub again as he embarks on a mission to save an iconic symbol of Detroit’s 20th century rise and fall.

Matthew Moroun is floating the idea to transportation planners and government officials ahead of the Michigan Central Station playing host Wednesday night to former Detroiters at the kickoff dinner for the fourth annual Detroit Homecoming, produced by Crain’s Detroit Business.

“If we decide to really push this ... it’s not to start out trying to solicit politicians and governments or whatever for money. It’s to see if I can get folks to embrace it, that future vision,” Moroun told Crain’s. “We need to put the depot back on the map.”

Moroun envisions the depot having a straight-shot rail line to Detroit Metropolitan Airport and being a stop for Amtrak’s high-speed train routes to Chicago and a connection to Ontario’s VIA through the adjacent rail tunnel that dips below the Detroit River.

One of the biggest obstacles to redeveloping the train station is its location along Michigan Avenue on the outskirts of Corktown, nearly two miles west of Campus Martius in the central business district.

To overcome that barrier, Moroun said a second QLine streetcar line could be built along Michigan Avenue to connect downtown with the depot (like there used to be in the first half of the 20th century, as evidenced by old rails exposed along Michigan).

“All of that is big bucks. I get that,” Moroun said. “But all of those moves are moves that happen over a long period of time because of a mass transit plan.”

In pitching the idea, Moroun is essentially seeking public feedback — a noticeable departure from the often reclusive nature of his family’s business dealings in Detroit.

Two influential players in Detroit’s transportation planning circles are receptive to the idea of the old train station going back online.

“I’m excited that Matthew and his family are putting the energy into it that they are and that they’re evaluating these different ideas and I think it should be on the table,” said Matt Cullen, CEO of M-1 Rail, the private nonprofit that runs the QLine.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170911/news/638681/morouns-vision-for-detroit-depot-trains

LMich
Sep 12, 2017, 2:56 AM
This has been my wish forever that they make it Detroit's main train station, again, if only as a side usage. And, particularly if they hope to have international routes, again. It only makes sense. The rest of the development could subsidize using a small portion of it as a train station.

BTW, I'm really tired hearing about it's "out-of-the-way" location when the current station is even further from downtown. I'm glad it has a streetcar connection, now, but it's not like that tiny site actually works that well for Amtrak customers. It was an after-though. In any other city, it's location would basically be considered downtown. Not only is the station close enough downtown, but it has the space for parking. They could build a small garage over or under the platforms or place a garage over at the Roosevelt Warehouse across the street.

rlw777
Sep 12, 2017, 3:42 AM
Capitol Park renderings from CBS detroit (http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2017/09/11/new-capitol-park-renderings-released-on-monday/)

https://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/rendering_park.jpg

https://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/rendering_park-2.jpg

Interesting that they put the 1201 Griswold building from Capitol Park Partnership into the first rendering.

The North One
Sep 12, 2017, 3:47 AM
Love it

LMich
Sep 12, 2017, 4:17 AM
What a waste of money for them to have just torn this up and redid it just a few years back, though.

subterranean
Sep 12, 2017, 6:05 AM
This has been my wish forever that they make it Detroit's main train station, again, if only as a side usage.

Same. How badass would it be to have the proposed Via Rail HSR pull right into Detroit?

LMich
Sep 12, 2017, 6:16 AM
Same. How badass would it be to have the proposed Via Rail HSR pull right into Detroit?

Or Amtrak's higher-speed service, which is actually more likely given all of the work on the Michigan Line?

Honestly, refurbishing it as a train station just makes too much sense. I mean, put whatever else you want in the tower and the station building; I don't care. Just give me a stop behind the station.

subterranean
Sep 12, 2017, 6:23 AM
British Columbia and Washington have both just chipped in for a feasibility study for true HSR between Portland and Vancouver, BC. I would love to see something similar happen between Ontario and Michigan someday.

At any rate, I remain very skeptical of Matty despite my high hopes for this to become a reality. I could die happy seeing that thing renovated and used for its intended purpose...

Docta_Love
Sep 12, 2017, 7:44 PM
This has been my wish forever that they make it Detroit's main train station, again, if only as a side usage. And, particularly if they hope to have international routes, again. It only makes sense. The rest of the development could subsidize using a small portion of it as a train station.

BTW, I'm really tired hearing about it's "out-of-the-way" location when the current station is even further from downtown. I'm glad it has a streetcar connection, now, but it's not like that tiny site actually works that well for Amtrak customers. It was an after-though. In any other city, it's location would basically be considered downtown. Not only is the station close enough downtown, but it has the space for parking. They could build a small garage over or under the platforms or place a garage over at the Roosevelt Warehouse across the street.

I agree it is a bit silly not to consider the area part of the greater downtown originally the station was built to encourage downtown to spread down along Michigan and the west riverfront. The after the auto boom took really off the much grander concept of New Center was conceived and development was focused on the Woodward corridor, but it really is fair to look at downtown as an upside-down T.

What makes me interested in this move by the Moroun's is that it's driven by economics which makes me take them more seriously. Apparently the first floor concourse is a really hard space to reuse in a way that doesn't ruin the finances of the development. The article is actually very long its 4 parts so for those who haven't used up their free views for the month i recommend reading. According to the younger Moroun they had "nearly inked" with a tenet that would occupy 60% of the tower but they economics of the concourse sunk the plan even with that big of an anchor tenet.

Separating the development into a public and private part seems to be how it will work, the other issue is that MDOT has just started planning to upgrade the New Center Amtrack station into an intermodel transit center. However Matt Cullen who was also interviewed seems to think that the city can easily handle two new intermodel transit centers successfully.

Edit; Here's the renderings for the Woodbridge project

Developers target historic Detroit district for $6 million housing development
Procida Diggs Development Group is also behind Midtown West project

By KURT NAGL
Crain's Detroit Business
September 12, 2017

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/Trumbull%20Ave%20development_i.jpg?itok=gVcQl4_9

About $6 million of new housing development is set for the Woodbridge Farms Historic District in Midtown Detroit if all goes according to plan for the Procida Diggs Development Group.

The developers — a duo made up of Mario Procida, who is based in New York, and Douglass Diggs, of Detroit — are looking to build 18 or 19 new homes on property they own off Trumbull Avenue between Selden and Brainard streets.

The have also put in an application with the Detroit Land Bank Authority to purchase six lots at the corner of Lincoln and Selden streets, on which they would build an additional eight houses, Procida said.

"Twenty-seven houses is the goal," he said. "We are in full control with 19 of them."

However, because the property is in a historic district, they must have approval from Detroit's Historic District Commission before breaking ground. They are to present their plan to the commission Wednesday.

"We are hopeful they will OK it," Procida said. "From a procedural standpoint, it's a step-by-step process."

The Woodbridge Farms neighborhood was originally an enclave for merchants, industrialists and widows, according to the Detroit Historical society's website. The architecture ranges from Second Empire style homes of the 1870s to 1920s apartment buildings.

Procida said he has already presented the redevelopment plan to the city and community, which he said have embraced it.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170912/news/638886/developers-target-historic-detroit-district-for-6-million-housing


After 10 years, Westin Book Cadillac Detroit to get facelift

By TYLER CLIFFORD
Crain's Detroit Business
September 12, 2017

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/Westin%20Book%20Cadillac_i.jpg?itok=L-fQGEeL

As it approaches a decade in operation, the Westin Book Cadillac Detroit is set to get a multimillion dollar rehab next year.

The three-phase project will include remodeling the historic hotel's 453 rooms, guest floor corridors, restaurants and 39,000 square feet of meeting rooms and public spaces.

Bethesda, Md.-based Marriott International Inc. will manage the renewal project for the 93-year-old building, which is owned by Cleveland-based The Ferchill Group. Ferchill bought the Neo-Renaissance building in 2006, which had been vacant for more than two decades, and invested $200 million to renovate it and open the hotel in 2008.

The 33-story hotel, commissioned by the Book brothers and designed by Louis Kamper in 1924, was once the tallest hotel in the world.

Next month, Seattle-based Starbucks Corp. will open its Starbucks Reserve premium brand at the hotel to kick off the first phase. The project is expected to be completed in early 2019.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170912/news/638896/after-10-years-westin-book-cadillac-detroit-to-get-facelift

The North One
Sep 12, 2017, 8:31 PM
A Starbucks reserve? So they're opening a space like the one in Chicago and Seattle? Or are they just offering the product to guests? I'm confused.

Can't believe it's almost been ten years since the renovation.

Innsertnamehere
Sep 12, 2017, 11:09 PM
Ontario is actively planning a full High Speed Rail line between Toronto and Windsor right now, which will presumably terminate right before the tunnel. Essentially all you would need to bring that service to Detroit would be a renovated station on the other side and likely a larger tunnel to deal with the increased traffic. You could even locate border services in the station, allowing people to transfer from Via HSR onto Amtrak trains heading further west after clearing customs. I could see Detroit - Toronto being done in just over 2 hours.

animatedmartian
Sep 13, 2017, 12:33 AM
So there's a design exhibit for currently planned/proposed projects in Detroit. Quite a handful of renderings I'm pretty sure haven't been posted before.

Danish Brotherhood - LAAVU (http://laavustudio.com/danish-brotherhood-development/)

https://i.imgur.com/0qDaYzH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dcZiupj.jpg

Chroma - The Platform (http://platform.gdd.is/chroma/)

https://i.imgur.com/vAvxkGnh.png

https://i.imgur.com/Y2orxZRh.jpg

Brush Park: Form-based zoning (http://www.detroitmi.gov/Portals/0/docs/Planning/Brush%20Park%20Form%20Based%20Code/2017-05-09%20Public%20Meeting%20%231%20FINAL_Compiled.2.pdf?ver=2017-05-11-143839-830) (pdf file)
This particular image shows currently planned developments (mainly City Modern + Brewster Projects) plus the possible density of future infill development.

https://i.imgur.com/CVy5dGPh.jpg

These next couple are considered experimental housing typologies so they're more hypothetical than actually planned, I think. Detroit City Planning Department had partnered with the University of Michigan Taubman College of Architecture & Urban Planning's Masters of Architecture program to explore these experiments.

Dequindere Courts


https://i.imgur.com/AEfuoc6h.png

D Tow(n)er (looks like somewhere near the DMC, but really can't tell) The location is actually the northwest corner of Lasher and Grand River in Old Redford. (https://archinect.com/shuruiwu/project/d-tow-n-er) The tower would be 305 feet tall. The idea is that the apartments in this building are setup like rowhomes but vertically. Public community space would exist at different floors of the building, which is what those big blocky parts of the tower are. Neat idea, I think, but being out in Old Redford I wonder how successful it could actually be.

https://i.imgur.com/BV3b8ldh.png


All designs are being exibited at Detroit Design 139 (https://www.detroitdesign139.com).

LMich
Sep 13, 2017, 3:12 AM
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/Trumbull%20Ave%20development_i.jpg?itok=gVcQl4_9

Though more plain than I'd have liked, I like that they are duplexes, and that they aren't faced in some horrible vinyl siding that's become too common with infill these days. Still, I think they could break up the facades a bit without breaking their budget. Even a few simple insets, articulations, etc...would do wonders.

Anyway, that concept for Lahser and Grand River is way out of scale for the area. It'd be decades off, anyway, before something like that could even be considered out there, probably. But I don't even want them dreaming about something like that out there.

Innsertnamehere
Sep 13, 2017, 11:49 AM
That's great background density. Nothing fancy, but still quality. It's exactly what Detroit needs - to start filling in the many underutilizes residential streets. The fact that they are duplexes means that they have quite a bit of density over what Detroit has typically been building for new lowrise stock.

animatedmartian
Sep 13, 2017, 4:11 PM
Anyway, that concept for Lahser and Grand River is way out of scale for the area. It'd be decades off, anyway, before something like that could even be considered out there, probably. But I don't even want them dreaming about something like that out there.

High-rise and mid-rise apartment buildings (as well as office buildings) are pretty commonly scattered around Metro Detroit in otherwise low-density areas so in that regard, it wouldn't be too unusual. Though it'd certainly be one of the tallest around and one of the few not buffered by parking lots or trees.

I just wonder if it could be financially feasible without some sort of major subsidies. It's not the most desirable/active area so I don't think rents would be able to go high enough to justify the cost of construction.

Docta_Love
Sep 13, 2017, 6:40 PM
High-rise and mid-rise apartment buildings (as well as office buildings) are pretty commonly scattered around Metro Detroit in otherwise low-density areas so in that regard, it wouldn't be too unusual. Though it'd certainly be one of the tallest around and one of the few not buffered by parking lots or trees.

I just wonder if it could be financially feasible without some sort of major subsidies. It's not the most desirable/active area so I don't think rents would be able to go high enough to justify the cost of construction.

My first thoughts were what the block between Lasher and Evergreen needs is infill along with new/renovated storefronts along Grand River from Lasher to McNichols. Once you get past the new Meijer and retail plaza i would say Grand River going through the Rosedale area is really quite vibrant i would say it's second only to Livernois in the University District for the best retail corridor outside of downtown.

There are other highrises in the area 7 mile and Evergreen has one but i agree that the economics for that kind of project would be very hard to make work right now if at all. However that area is a very complex but important spot for NW Detroit you essential have the border Rosedale and Brightmoor there and past that point Grand River corridor becomes much more suburban. I do love the idea of doing something there and something at Grand River and Greenfield to really hook up G.R. with downtown and Redford/Farmington Hills.

LMich
Sep 13, 2017, 10:31 PM
I know the area; I know that there are other "highrises" in the area. This would be a whole other scale. The senior apartment buildings and such scattered in this area of Detroit rarely top 140 feet. This would be totally out of scale for a neighborhood like that.

Anyway, the Hudson development has been dumped down a bit - at least the podium - but the height has been increased to 800 feet:

https://scontent.fdet1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21728214_1575335515866478_961304186978763658_n.jpg?oh=954395460fc9565443abd10c3c3f91d9&oe=5A5727AE

mind field
Sep 13, 2017, 11:56 PM
I don't like the redesign of the Hudson's site. The base was far better in the previous rendering, much more interest and architectural uniqueness. Bring back the curves and voids of the previous design. Now the new design could just be any old building in any major city anywhere in the world.

animatedmartian
Sep 13, 2017, 11:59 PM
I know the area; I know that there are other "highrises" in the area. This would be a whole other scale. The senior apartment buildings and such scattered in this area of Detroit rarely top 140 feet. This would be totally out of scale for a neighborhood like that.

You have Southfield only a couple miles away with taller buildings among low-rise development so it's still not that unusual. It'd be easier to argue that D Tow(n)er doesn't architecturally jive with the surrounding area or at the very least, the downtown area of Old Redford being the ultra modern design that it is. Though even then, the area is mostly post-war bungalows and ranches that are like a dime in a dozen for most of the city.

Warrenite84
Sep 14, 2017, 12:06 AM
I really liked the previous base as well with the sweeping style.

LMich
Sep 14, 2017, 12:49 AM
I don't like the redesign of the Hudson's site. The base was far better in the previous rendering, much more interest and architectural uniqueness. Bring back the curves and voids of the previous design. Now the new design could just be any old building in any major city anywhere in the world.

Though there have been significant changes, it's really weird to have people say this is "any old building," now. It's really not. This is not something they are typically building in other American cities outside the big ones, right now.

You have Southfield only a couple miles away with taller buildings among low-rise development so it's still not that unusual. It'd be easier to argue that D Tow(n)er doesn't architecturally jive with the surrounding area or at the very least, the downtown area of Old Redford being the ultra modern design that it is. Though even then, the area is mostly post-war bungalows and ranches that are like a dime in a dozen for most of the city.

See, I don't see Southfield as a positive example. I don't want to see Detroit like Houston where you have skyscrapers next door to one-story 50's bungalows. That's not the kind of Detroit I want to see. Southfield is also also a city just now seeing the error of their ways and trying to correct their terrible urban planning. Fortunately, Detroit's zoning code would largely make sure something like this doesn't happen. These are neighborhood nodes, not central business districts or even tertiary/regional business districts. There is more than enough room along Jefferson or in the old city core for skyscrapers.

animatedmartian
Sep 14, 2017, 2:44 AM
Though there have been significant changes, it's really weird to have people say this is "any old building," now. It's really not. This is not something they are typically building in other American cities outside the big ones, right now.
I think the boxiness of it is what makes it generic. A lot of modern skyscrapers are getting pretty boxy either because that's the cheaper way to build them or easier to fill with tenants because of the lack of odd spaces. Not only that, but this new design just looks so jumbled with no cohesiveness with itself. It's very pretty to look at, but it's honestly a hot mess.


See, I don't see Southfield as a positive example. I don't want to see Detroit like Houston where you have skyscrapers next door to one-story 50's bungalows. That's not the kind of Detroit I want to see. Southfield is also also a city just now seeing the error of their ways and trying to correct their terrible urban planning. Fortunately, Detroit's zoning code would largely make sure something like this doesn't happen. These are neighborhood nodes, not central business districts or even tertiary/regional business districts. There is more than enough room along Jefferson or in the old city core for skyscrapers.

Lol, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think Detroit will ever end up sprouting a sprawl of non-core skyscrapers like Houston, but it's not like Detroit hasn't already built skyscrapers outside of the CBD which were then predominately low-rise residential areas. It's more or less the natural growth of a bigger city.

LMich
Sep 14, 2017, 9:08 AM
More of the Capitol Park redo from Curbed (https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/9/12/16294016/capitol-park-redesign-detroit).

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/_URGtrZoawF1tVlQ8IwLESouBTk=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9226907/CanPlan.PNG

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/_2NXwCnNJLDKz9yrBDiGvPLQEII=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9226903/CapParkStreet.PNG

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/4jAtKVYGiJ4KGU83SOaZjI9BJ3c=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9217831/Capitol_Park_Axis_View.png

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Cfo5E88NY7a2xIgJkxxv1NY5EhU=/1000x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9226863/CapParkCanopy.PNG

skyscraperpage17
Sep 14, 2017, 12:42 PM
I think the boxiness of it is what makes it generic. A lot of modern skyscrapers are getting pretty boxy either because that's the cheaper way to build them or easier to fill with tenants because of the lack of odd spaces. Not only that, but this new design just looks so jumbled with no cohesiveness with itself. It's very pretty to look at, but it's honestly a hot mess.



Lol, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think Detroit will ever end up sprouting a sprawl of non-core skyscrapers like Houston, but it's not like Detroit hasn't already built skyscrapers outside of the CBD which were then predominately low-rise residential areas. It's more or less the natural growth of a bigger city.

To your first paragraph, let's be frank. The only way we were going to get something close to this scale on the Hudson site was if it were box-y and generic. Detroit simply isn't desirable enough (nor does it give investors enough return on their investment) for anything more sophisicated. In hindsight, it should makes us regret demolishing the old Hudson building out of haste, but what's done is done. You can't change the past and you have to play the cards you're dealt with.

As far as your second paragraph, that makes no sense. For one, unlike Houston, Detroit actually have the right bones to support high density developments (remember, during its peak, it was just about as dense as Philadelphia). Hell, if sprawly Nashville can manage to accomplish a ton of higher-density infill despite their lack of transit, we can do the same. The problem, again, has been the lack of demand /desirability and the poor return that investors would get. But as long we just don't rubber stamp any ol' crap for construction (like the abomination on the Statler site) and be patient as Dan Gilbert does his thing, more and more investors will want to do increasingly larger scale and cohesive projects downtown and throughout the city.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 14, 2017, 2:35 PM
Below is a very good article from Rochelle Riley from the Free Press. It has some critical highlights in it as well:

http://www.freep.com/story/news/columnists/rochelle-riley/2017/09/14/rochelle-riley-mike-duggan-dan-gilbert-amazon-hq-detroit/662745001/

1. According to Duggan, Snyder did informally give his blessing in a phone conversation for Detroit to get this.

2. Shockingly, it appears L. Brooks Patterson will in fact cooperate with putting together a one "Detroit" bid.

Also, I thought the entire part of the article below was especially on point:

..."When John (CEO of Walbridge, which built the Tennessee plant) was in Frankfurt talking to the then-CEO of Volkswagen, Michigan and Tennessee were the two finalist states, and Volkswagen ended up picking Tennessee. When John asked why, the CEO said that the financial deal put on the table by the state of Michigan was actually slightly better than the one from Tennessee but they chose Tennessee because of what he called 'cohesion.'

"He said there were multiple levels of government unified and everyone saying, 'We have one bid for you and we're all going to support this,' Baruah recalled. "In Michigan, people were tripping over each other and there were multiple bids and no alignment. People were competing against each other and we wanted a region where if we had a problem, we knew the region would come together to solve the problem as opposed to pointing fingers.


"That's why we’ve been working so hard to make sure this Amazon bid is a regional bid."

Baruah said the Amazon team was within "24 to 48 hours away from having an organizational ethos set."

"And when I say 'we,' I mean regional economic developers, the political officials ... We're at that point where we understand this needs to be one bid. We can’t go with multiple bids; we need to present the region. They’re obviously looking at downtown Detroit. But when you look at what they've done in Seattle, there are over 33 buildings in Seattle, so we know if we’re successful, chances are they might start expanding into different areas for different purposes and we want them to understand the entire set of assets the region has."

Baruah also said that if Amazon chooses Detroit, the company's employees would live across the region...

The North One
Sep 14, 2017, 10:11 PM
So, are the cobble stone roads included in the park redesign? They seem obviously displayed in every render.

animatedmartian
Sep 14, 2017, 11:35 PM
To your first paragraph, let's be frank. The only way we were going to get something close to this scale on the Hudson site was if it were box-y and generic. Detroit simply isn't desirable enough (nor does it give investors enough return on their investment) for anything more sophisicated. In hindsight, it should makes us regret demolishing the old Hudson building out of haste, but what's done is done. You can't change the past and you have to play the cards you're dealt with.

I was under the impression that the original proposal wasn't going to cost as much since this redesign comes with a bigger price tag. Also Dan Gilbert through Bedrock is financing most of the Hudson's project and he's stated before that he's well aware that he'll lose money on the first few years on the project. Though that's why he owns so much other real estate around downtown to soften the blow.

The original design would have actually had a lot of empty space because of the odd shaped areas on the ground floor. (http://images.adsttc.com/media/images/58b0/49c7/e58e/ce2b/4500/05fc/slideshow/SHoP_Hudson%27s_Site_Development_Streetscape_Image_by_SHoP_Architects_PC.jpg?1487948218) One of the freep articles mentions that the redesign moved a lot of the retail space from the basement to the ground floor. It has nothing to do with Detroit's desirability and entirely more to do with Gilbert being able to make money off the space inside his building. The redesign probably allows for bigger and/or possibly more numerous retailers.


As far as your second paragraph, that makes no sense. For one, unlike Houston, Detroit actually have the right bones to support high density developments (remember, during its peak, it was just about as dense as Philadelphia). Hell, if sprawly Nashville can manage to accomplish a ton of higher-density infill despite their lack of transit, we can do the same. The problem, again, has been the lack of demand /desirability and the poor return that investors would get. But as long we just don't rubber stamp any ol' crap for construction (like the abomination on the Statler site) and be patient as Dan Gilbert does his thing, more and more investors will want to do increasingly larger scale and cohesive projects downtown and throughout the city.

Huh? I never said anything about Detroit being unable to support high density, but more along the lines that Detroit wouldn't likely have a mass growth of high density projects abutting low-rise areas (https://goo.gl/maps/6k5CBAGv2x82), like Houston. My point was with places like New Center (https://digital.library.wayne.edu/loris/fedora:wayne:vmc397_3%7Cvmc397_3_JP2/full/full/0/default.jpg) and even along Jefferson (https://goo.gl/maps/iYU6GuFpDxj), high rises were built in areas that otherwise had low-rise development. There's not necessarily always a smooth transition between low density and high density areas.

animatedmartian
Sep 15, 2017, 1:31 AM
The Platform is under contract to buy this parcel and so far have planned for retail along Gratiot and residential towards the Dequindere Cut.

https://i.imgur.com/LQw1cmo.jpg

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170915/news/639186/the-platform-plans-redevelopment-of-former-joe-muer-site-near-eastern

Also Olympia demolished the property (or so far part of it) behind the Women's City Club. Turns out it used to be a recording studio.

https://scontent.fdtw1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21728000_10155831965088083_2604123479473846924_n.jpg?oh=b354a4c3657c026e12873c0e462d8139&oe=5A5EACDE
https://www.facebook.com/HistoricDetroit/posts/1573152369418179

And finally, the MCS has been lit up with LED lights for Detroit's Homecoming event.

fmdPizl8UBY

https://i.imgur.com/5AdPOiH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BYIPF1t.jpg
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/detroits_iconic_michigan_centr.html

skyscraperpage17
Sep 15, 2017, 5:27 AM
I was under the impression that the original proposal wasn't going to cost as much since this redesign comes with a bigger price tag. Also Dan Gilbert through Bedrock is financing most of the Hudson's project and he's stated before that he's well aware that he'll lose money on the first few years on the project. Though that's why he owns so much other real estate around downtown to soften the blow.

The original design would have actually had a lot of empty space because of the odd shaped areas on the ground floor. (http://images.adsttc.com/media/images/58b0/49c7/e58e/ce2b/4500/05fc/slideshow/SHoP_Hudson%27s_Site_Development_Streetscape_Image_by_SHoP_Architects_PC.jpg?1487948218) One of the freep articles mentions that the redesign moved a lot of the retail space from the basement to the ground floor. It has nothing to do with Detroit's desirability and entirely more to do with Gilbert being able to make money off the space inside his building. The redesign probably allows for bigger and/or possibly more numerous retailers.

Well my point is there's no incentive for Gilbert to build something as grandiose as you desire, because he's simply not going to get a Chicago or NYC-type of ROI on it. After all, he is a businessman first and foremost. The Hudson site project is essentially nothing more than him saying he built something transformative in the city.

The fact that he's the only one to propose anything in Detroit of its scale and he has to pay for it entirely out of pocket IMO shows that it's not economically feasible otherwise if it were left up to true free market principles, this wouldn't be happening.


Huh? I never said anything about Detroit being unable to support high density, but more along the lines that Detroit wouldn't likely have a mass growth of high density projects abutting low-rise areas (https://goo.gl/maps/6k5CBAGv2x82), like Houston. My point was with places like New Center (https://digital.library.wayne.edu/loris/fedora:wayne:vmc397_3%7Cvmc397_3_JP2/full/full/0/default.jpg) and even along Jefferson (https://goo.gl/maps/iYU6GuFpDxj), high rises were built in areas that otherwise had low-rise development. There's not necessarily always a smooth transition between low density and high density areas.

Now I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. What does "high density projects abutting low-rise areas" mean? They're not mutually exclusive, as it's possible to have high density (as in high population density) with low-rise development (see Brooklyn or the neighborhoods in Philadelphia as an example).

Concerning high rises you see in areas that are surrounded by mostly low-rise development (I guess you're referring to places like the Lee Plaza or the Fisher Building), you have to bear in mind when and how the city grew in the first place. Detroit was on the verge of a massive skyscraper boom during the 1920s, but the depression basically killed that momentum. When developers of the high rises along Jefferson and the New Center area constructed their buildings, there was good reason to believe at the time that they'd soon be surrounded by other high rises in the near future (given the city's rapid growth). The same exact thing is/was happening in Atlanta. When BOA Plaza and One Atlantic Center were built, they were also surrounded by a bunch of low-rise development. Fast forward to today and a ton of other skyscrapers have gone up and are going up around them. Same thing occurred in NYC and Chicago as well. Unfortunately, in Detroit, that never happened.

That being said, I don't see how having these now seemingly out-of-place high rises in the areas you mentioned have/had any bearing on the density of the surrounding areas. They were still crowded / bustling neighborhoods and in terms of how land was utilized, it was all cohesive at the time (in other words, no vacant land).

As a final point, Detroit, at least in theory, has zoning laws to ensure cohesive land development and the smooth transition between higher and low density areas (having them enforced is an entirely different discussion). Houston has absolutely no zoning laws, so it's not comparable.

LMich
Sep 15, 2017, 7:20 AM
My only hope is that someone will push them to include the facade of the existing two-story building. I don't see why they couldn't do this.

Speak of the devil, the historic district commission has gotten Bedrock to save the facade of the two-story Book Tower Arcade, and also sounds like the garage will be an elevator garage like at Merchants Row on Woodward:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/OUPPlMBqcuVArOHBIvAxy1Zc7Og=/0x0:1291x691/920x613/filters:focal(543x243:749x449)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56671093/Book2Story.0.png

The Historic District Commission approved an odd, complicated plan for Bedrock, who intended to demolish a two-story next to the Book Building in order to build a parking garage. Preservationists and neighbors objected to the loss of the structure, and an agreement was made to save the facade and demolish the interior of the building.

The valet parking garage will be 12 to 13 stories using a flat deck with elevators; Bedrock intends to keep the first two stories for retail use.

https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/9/14/16306470/book-tower-building-parking

And, it appears the new homes going up on Woodbridge also approved the historic homes to go up along Trumbull:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/zoAd30oKBUTZu76uJxm4UNxM7ng=/0x0:888x605/920x613/filters:focal(373x232:515x374)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56672275/21463352_10214027069934936_9091000601655389073_n.0.jpg

The houses will include a small (too small, according to many) front porch, a two-car garage, a backyard, deck, and basement. They’ll be about 1,800 square feet with three bedrooms. Many will be attached duplexes, while others will be detached. The initial plan calls for 19 homes, with eight more in the future. The developers plan to break ground in spring 2018.

https://detroit.curbed.com/2017/9/14/16306600/woodbridge-residential-development

animatedmartian
Sep 15, 2017, 12:57 PM
Well my point is there's no incentive for Gilbert to build something as grandiose as you desire, because he's simply not going to get a Chicago or NYC-type of ROI on it. After all, he is a businessman first and foremost. The Hudson site project is essentially nothing more than him saying he built something transformative in the city.

The fact that he's the only one to propose anything in Detroit of its scale and he has to pay for it entirely out of pocket IMO shows that it's not economically feasible otherwise if it were left up to true free market principles, this wouldn't be happening.

The Hudson's project costs just slightly more than Little Ceasers Arena so he's not the only one to propose (and actually build something) of this scale. That has nothing to do with the fact that the redesign looks worse than the original, imo.


Now I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. What does "high density projects abutting low-rise areas" mean? They're not mutually exclusive, as it's possible to have high density (as in high population density) with low-rise development (see Brooklyn or the neighborhoods in Philadelphia as an example).

Concerning high rises you see in areas that are surrounded by mostly low-rise development (I guess you're referring to places like the Lee Plaza or the Fisher Building), you have to bear in mind when and how the city grew in the first place. Detroit was on the verge of a massive skyscraper boom during the 1920s, but the depression basically killed that momentum. When developers of the high rises along Jefferson and the New Center area constructed their buildings, there was good reason to believe at the time that they'd soon be surrounded by other high rises in the near future (given the city's rapid growth). The same exact thing is/was happening in Atlanta. When BOA Plaza and One Atlantic Center were built, they were also surrounded by a bunch of low-rise development. Fast forward to today and a ton of other skyscrapers have gone up and are going up around them. Same thing occurred in NYC and Chicago as well. Unfortunately, in Detroit, that never happened.

That being said, I don't see how having these now seemingly out-of-place high rises in the areas you mentioned have/had any bearing on the density of the surrounding areas. They were still crowded / bustling neighborhoods and in terms of how land was utilized, it was all cohesive at the time (in other words, no vacant land).

As a final point, Detroit, at least in theory, has zoning laws to ensure cohesive land development and the smooth transition between higher and low density areas (having them enforced is an entirely different discussion). Houston has absolutely no zoning laws, so it's not comparable.

The original discussion was about having a 300 foot tower being hypothesized in Old Redford which has mostly low-rise development. My point is that it's not unusual to have a building, such as the Fisher Building at 450 feet, being built adjacent to 2 and 3 story structures, with the exception of the GM building across the street. At the time, that was way outside the CBD. So, my point is it's not unusual to have high rises away from the city core but Detroit wouldn't end up like Houston with dozens of high rises scattered all over the place.

detroit_alive
Sep 15, 2017, 1:02 PM
Also Olympia demolished the property (or so far part of it) behind the Women's City Club. Turns out it used to be a recording studio.


Yep this place was Ghetto Recorders, Jim Diamond's studio. It was a legendary place in Detroit's garage rock scene. The first two White Stripes albums were recorded there. The Dirtbombs, The Go, The Sights, The High Strung, Electric Six, The Von Bondies all recorded there. Jim got pushed out in 2014 (I think) due to rising rent.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 15, 2017, 10:22 PM
The Hudson's project costs just slightly more than Little Ceasers Arena so he's not the only one to propose (and actually build something) of this scale. That has nothing to do with the fact that the redesign looks worse than the original, imo.



The original discussion was about having a 300 foot tower being hypothesized in Old Redford which has mostly low-rise development. My point is that it's not unusual to have a building, such as the Fisher Building at 450 feet, being built adjacent to 2 and 3 story structures, with the exception of the GM building across the street. At the time, that was way outside the CBD. So, my point is it's not unusual to have high rises away from the city core but Detroit wouldn't end up like Houston with dozens of high rises scattered all over the place.

The arena serves a completely different function from the Hudson site development (besides, nearly half of it was taxpayer funded), so it's basically apples and oranges.

And ultimately, the point I'm getting at is there's no chance of Detroit ending up like Houston (never mind the fact that a 300 foot skyscraper is barely happening downtown, let alone some place like Old Redford outside of someone's dreams). I wouldn't worry about it.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 16, 2017, 12:59 AM
Below is a very thorough analysis conducted as far as where potential cities stand in terms of meeting Amazon's needs.

Surprisingly, Detroit ranked relatively high, with a score greater than 40%. Only 3 others (Chicago, Philadelphia and DC) barely had a score greater than 50%.

It should be noted, he dinged Detroit for a lack of housing. He also didn't include Ann Arbor / University of Michigan in his analysis. Take that however you like.

https://medium.com/migration-issues/no-room-at-the-inn-for-amazon-effda4edc00f

I did chuckle at this part, as he has a point. With both Detroit and Atlanta being Delta's top hubs, you can practically get the same number of direct flights to the same number of destinations in both cities.

I’m not going to bother with debating whether Atlanta should get more airport points than Detroit.

The North One
Sep 16, 2017, 1:01 AM
Becuase the only thing Detroit doesn't have is transit, but a BRT system could easily be built in the coming 15 years.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 16, 2017, 1:16 AM
Becuase the only thing Detroit doesn't have is transit, but a BRT system could easily be built in the coming 15 years.

Absolutely.

Plus, Detroit does already have the bones in place to at least establish a couple commuter rail lines relatively quickly. It's just a matter of getting the funding in place to modify and modernize the infrastructure accordingly.

Docta_Love
Sep 16, 2017, 5:49 AM
I think that perhaps one of the biggest unsaid thing so far at least that Detroit has going for it is impact, no doubt where ever HQ2 gets built it will have a big helping effect on the economy but Amazon could really do a lot of good while getting a lot of good P.R. with a presence that would be city and region wide. Amazon's move helps kick Detroit's comeback into high gear and provides a lot of good jobs to people who need them its a good story the company could tell showing how their presence is a force for the greater good or the like. It's not enough in itself to make it worth while for Amazon to move here just for that reason but it could balance out or even out weigh some of the potential negatives Detroit has against.

deja vu
Sep 16, 2017, 1:51 PM
I think that perhaps one of the biggest unsaid thing so far at least that Detroit has going for it is impact, no doubt where ever HQ2 gets built it will have a big helping effect on the economy but Amazon could really do a lot of good while getting a lot of good P.R. with a presence that would be city and region wide. Amazon's move helps kick Detroit's comeback into high gear and provides a lot of good jobs to people who need them its a good story the company could tell showing how their presence is a force for the greater good or the like. It's not enough in itself to make it worth while for Amazon to move here just for that reason but it could balance out or even out weigh some of the potential negatives Detroit has against.

I think you make a good point; but in term's of how much weight, if any, this aspect will have on the corporation's decision, remains to be seen. It will come down to whether or not Amazon understands this story (if Detroit presents it that way) and sees any value in it. On a related note, I also wonder about outside perspective regarding Detroit's emergence from bankruptcy, and wonder if is perceived as just 'too soon / too risky' by big investors from out of state. I hope not - this too could be turned into a positive part of the 'story' that Detroit tells Amazon, one that conveys resilience and creativity by many local business and city leaders.

Docta_Love
Sep 16, 2017, 6:00 PM
I agree that in itself a good pr only goes so far and wont be a counter weight to hard cold economics but lets say that Detroit is stacking up well in its bid and things are very close at the end with Detroit still in the running then things beyond the specified desired attributes may start to play a larger role in selection.

On another note i was just saying how i wanted to see some infill in Old Redford haha.

Stephen Ross, Ford Foundation to invest in Platform projects throughout city
$7.5 million from Ross, $10 million from foundation to go to neighborhood housing

By Kirk Pinho and Sherri Welch
Crain's Detroit Business
September 14, 2017

Billionaire developer Stephen Ross and the New York-based Ford Foundation are teaming up with The Platform LLC to make a $27.5 million investment in bringing housing to Detroit neighborhoods.

Ross, a Detroit native and New York real estate developer who also owns the Miami Dolphins, announced a $7.5 million investment and the Ford Foundation a $10 million investment during the Detroit Homecoming event Thursday night at the Detroit Film Theatre at the DIA.

Their investments add to $10 million from The Platform, a development company formed by Peter Cummings and Dietrich Knoer.

The Platform Neighborhood Initiative is bringing affordable housing, plus market-rate apartments, to areas outside of the significant development that's already taken place in the downtown and Midtown areas. Neighborhoods targeted for the projects include Islandview, Brightmoor/Old Redford, Live6, New Center, TechTown, Milwaukee Junction, North End, Eastern Market and the Riverfront.

"If you have a real estate personality as prominent as Stephen Ross and an institution like the Ford Foundation making these kinds of commitments, it says as much about the city of Detroit as it does The Platform," Cummings said.

He said Ford Foundation CEO Darren Walker and Ross met a few weeks ago on other business and began discussing Detroit Homecoming and potentially making an investment. Ross agreed to call Cummings, and the deal was set in motion. Ross is the nephew of the late Detroit businessman Max Fisher, and Cummings is married to Fisher's daughter, Julia Fisher Cummings.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170915/news/639191/stephen-ross-ford-foundation-to-invest-in-platform-projects-throughout

animatedmartian
Sep 16, 2017, 8:26 PM
I think you make a good point; but in term's of how much weight, if any, this aspect will have on the corporation's decision, remains to be seen. It will come down to whether or not Amazon understands this story (if Detroit presents it that way) and sees any value in it. On a related note, I also wonder about outside perspective regarding Detroit's emergence from bankruptcy, and wonder if is perceived as just 'too soon / too risky' by big investors from out of state. I hope not - this too could be turned into a positive part of the 'story' that Detroit tells Amazon, one that conveys resilience and creativity by many local business and city leaders.

I think that perhaps one of the biggest unsaid thing so far at least that Detroit has going for it is impact, no doubt where ever HQ2 gets built it will have a big helping effect on the economy but Amazon could really do a lot of good while getting a lot of good P.R. with a presence that would be city and region wide. Amazon's move helps kick Detroit's comeback into high gear and provides a lot of good jobs to people who need them its a good story the company could tell showing how their presence is a force for the greater good or the like. It's not enough in itself to make it worth while for Amazon to move here just for that reason but it could balance out or even out weigh some of the potential negatives Detroit has against.

Amazon does see value in Detroit, but it may not be IT value. Amazon is already building 3 distribution centers in Metro Detroit for a total of nearly 4,000 jobs.

"Michigan has been a great place to do business for Amazon and we look forward to adding a new fulfillment center to better serve our customers in the region," said Sanjay Shah, Amazon's vice president of North American operations, said in a news release.

"The state has been a source of exceptional talent for Amazon, and we're proud to be creating great jobs with benefits for Michiganders."
http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/2017/09/amazon_plans_3rd_massive_wareh.html

Though it should be noted, these were built with tax incentives and Metro Detroit's currently unemployment rate is around 4%. So the idea that Amazon needs a huge workforce to locate HQ2 here might just be BS.

Michigan and Detroit could actually craft a pretty lucrative tax incentive package based on current laws and incentives (partly created due to the state trying to lure other businesses) but the question is whether politicians would go through with it and whether other states could craft something better.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 16, 2017, 10:10 PM
Amazon does see value in Detroit, but it may not be IT value. Amazon is already building 3 distribution centers in Metro Detroit for a total of nearly 4,000 jobs.


http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/2017/09/amazon_plans_3rd_massive_wareh.html

Though it should be noted, these were built with tax incentives and Metro Detroit's currently unemployment rate is around 4%. So the idea that Amazon needs a huge workforce to locate HQ2 here might just be BS.

Michigan and Detroit could actually craft a pretty lucrative tax incentive package based on current laws and incentives (partly created due to the state trying to lure other businesses) but the question is whether politicians would go through with it and whether other states could craft something better.

Someone in the Atlanta thread mentioned that Atlanta and Georgia have the best credit rating in the US.

If that's the case, they're going to sell the farm to land this. I'm not sure if Michigan's willing to do that, especially given that it was like pulling teeth for them to pass the incentives for the Hudson skyscraper. I could be wrong though (apparently, Michigan's incentive package was the best amongst other competing states for the Volkswagen plant).

animatedmartian
Sep 16, 2017, 11:07 PM
Someone in the Atlanta thread mentioned that Atlanta and Georgia have the best credit rating in the US.

If that's the case, they're going to sell the farm to land this. I'm not sure if Michigan's willing to do that, especially given that it was like pulling teeth for them to pass the incentives for the Hudson skyscraper. I could be wrong though (apparently, Michigan's incentive package was the best amongst other competing states for the Volkswagen plant).

Without adding any new incentives and with the ones Michigan and Detroit currently have, it's possible Amazon could get up to $1 billion to locate in Detroit. Dan Gilbert's tax incentive bill he pushed can support up to $500 million per project in Detroit and Michigan's "Good Jobs bill" (created to lure Foxconn) can support $200 million per year. Those are the two biggest I know from recent memory, but I'm sure there's a few more incentives already available.

I'm sure there's a few other states that could craft better (or bigger) deals but Amazon probably wouldn't count out Detroit completely.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 16, 2017, 11:14 PM
Below is the official RFP from Amazon.

One thing that stands out in particular is mass transit is not mentioned anywhere in it as a requirement. It simply requests participants to provide data regarding transit options (which includes buses & pedestrian access) as well as rush hour congestion data / drive times on roads and highways.

...Personnel travel and logistics needs, both from population centers to the Project site, as well as between company facilities, are critically important. As such, travel time to a major highway corridor and arterial roadway capacity potential are key factors. The highway corridors must provide direct access to significant population centers with eligible employment pools. Travel time to an international airport with daily direct flights to Seattle, New York, San Francisco/Bay Area, and Washington, D.C. is also an important consideration...

...Please provide highway, airport, and related travel and logistics information for all proposed sites. Please also include transit and transportation options for commuting employees living in the region. For each proposed site in your region, identify all transit options, including bike lanes and pedestrian access to the site(s). Also, list the ranking of traffic congestion for your community and/or region during peak commuting times...

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/01/Anything/test/images/usa/RFP_3._V516043504_.pdf

skyscraperpage17
Sep 16, 2017, 11:23 PM
Without adding any new incentives and with the ones Michigan and Detroit currently have, it's possible Amazon could get up to $1 billion to locate in Detroit. Dan Gilbert's tax incentive bill he pushed can support up to $500 million per project in Detroit and Michigan's "Good Jobs bill" (created to lure Foxconn) can support $200 million per year. Those are the two biggest I know from recent memory, but I'm sure there's a few more incentives already available.

I'm sure there's a few other states that could craft better (or bigger) deals but Amazon probably wouldn't count out Detroit completely.

$1 Billion won't be all that impressive for a project of this scale, considering the states / cities we're competing with. Michigan spent that much for GM to commit to a mere $700 million in investment and 1,200 jobs.

If you recall, the incentives added up to nearly $9 billion dollars to keep Boeing's operations in Seattle.

Docta_Love
Sep 17, 2017, 2:57 PM
They will be opening an H.Q. office in Fisher Building but I believe they will also be keeping their Birmingham office open from what I've seen.

Firm of Architecture Great Yamasaki Returns to Detroit

By Jacob Meschke
Deadline Detroit
September 14th, 2017

https://dd-res.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/article_landing_8745242628_709d183093_o_27796.jpg

The modern-day version of legendary architect Minoru Yamasaki's firm will open an office in the Fisher Building in Detroit's New Center area, the Detroit Free Press reported Thursday. At the peak of his career Yamasaki, opened an architecture firm in Detroit, and lived and designed several buildings across Southeast Michigan. Born in Seattle, he lived and worked in Detroit from 1945 until his death in 1986 at age 73.

rom the Free Press' John Gallagher:

Robert Szantner, who worked for Yamasaki beginning in 1984 and stayed with the firm until it closed, later bought the intellectual property, including the name, out of receivership. He operated it in Birmingham for a few years but decided to move to Detroit, where Yamasaki himself had launched his firm around 1950.

"I think we’re really interested in that kind of momentum that Detroit has now," Szantner told me. He noted that the firm for many years was better known for its work elsewhere than here at home. "So we’re really excited about the resurgence of the city and want to be able to provide those services that we’re well-known for in other markets."

http://www.deadlinedetroit.com/articles/18347/firm_of_architecture_great_yamasaki_returns_to_detroit


Ford becomes second automaker to invest in Michigan mobility test site

By Katie Burke
Automotive News - Crain's Detroit Business
September 15, 2017

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/ACMConstruction-Rendering-main_i.jpg?itok=wOKlnX5T

Rendering of the bridge expected to be completed as part of phase one construction of the American Center for Mobility's autonomous vehicle test track.


....

Ford follows Toyota Motor Corp. — which announced a $5 million investment in July — in funding the federally designated proving ground for autonomous and connected vehicles. The Dearborn-based automaker's contribution brings the site's total funds to $95 million of the $110 million needed. The center is slated to open in December.

Construction on the 311-acre site began in November. It is housed at Detroit-based General Motors Co.'s former Willow Run assembly plant between Detroit and Ann Arbor.

"The work done at Willow Run will help drive mobility solutions across the globe," Ken Washington, Ford's chief technology officer, said in a statement. "This is an investment in the safe, rapid testing and deployment of transformative technology that will help improve people's lives."

In January, the U.S. Department of Transportation named Willow Run one of 10 designated automated vehicle testing sites across the country. GM has expressed verbal interest in the site, and AT&T has pledged to provide the cellular network for connected testing.

....


http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170915/news/639266/ford-becomes-second-automaker-to-invest-in-michigan-mobility-test-site

deja vu
Sep 17, 2017, 10:55 PM
That's pretty crazy about the return of Yamasaki as an Architecture Firm in Detroit. For all of the history that firm was a part of, I don't know if I would want to open a business using the original name, intellectual property rights or not. Random aside, my sister has a friend whose family now owns and lives in Yamasaki's house in Bloomfield Township. You can see a few photos of it on the Michigan Modern website here (http://www.michiganmodern.org/buildings/minoru-and-teruko-yamasaki-house).

It was only a few days ago that I was reading about how some of the firm's intellectual property came to be owned by the State of Michigan. Thinking it's lucky that this much got saved:

PHOTOS: The World Trade Center designs are owned by the state of Michigan (http://michiganradio.org/post/photos-world-trade-center-designs-are-owned-state-michigan)
By Mark Brush | Michigan Radio
September 11, 2017

skyscraperpage17
Sep 17, 2017, 11:55 PM
The latest word I'm hearing is that Gilbert's meeting with the Mayor of Windsor this week to discuss the Amazon HQ2 bid.

Awesome news!!!

north 42
Sep 18, 2017, 1:50 PM
The latest word I'm hearing is that Gilbert's meeting with the Mayor of Windsor this week to discuss the Amazon HQ2 bid.

Awesome news!!!

I just read that too, interesting development! Not quite sure how that would work, but it could make the bid stand out being that it would include both countries!

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/windsor-to-join-detroit-in-game-changer-bid-for-amazon-hq

animatedmartian
Sep 18, 2017, 5:57 PM
Off-topic, but anytime I see Amazon's domes in front of their tower it just looks so... phallic.

Anyway, Windsor would make sense if the Quebec to Windsor HSR ever came into fruition. Amazon could get the benefit of being pretty connected with Toronto without having to pay (or increase) the cost of real estate there. Then the US could have HSR from Detroit to Chicago. Detroit would be the perfect logistics hub.

LMich
Sep 19, 2017, 12:43 PM
Nice.

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/03/16/-c46e11267330d5b3.JPG
Tanya Moutzalias | MLive.com

Crumbling historic Detroit house sells for $315,000 with plans for renovation (http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/dilapidated_historic_home_to_t.html#incart_river_home)

By Dana Afana | MLive.com

September 19, 2017

A long-vacant and blighted historic home in Detroit's Brush Park neighborhood could see new life under new ownership.

Developer Doug Quada purchased the Henry Glover home at 229 Edmund Place for $315,000, closing the deal on Friday, Sept. 15.

The three-floor home sits in the heart of the new City Modern development, one of Quicken Loans founder Dan Gilbert's multi-million dollar projects, and is down the road from Little Caesars Arena.

The project is not part of Gilbert's housing development, but CH Architects, which is restoring the historic mansions within the City Modern project, is also working on the the Henry Glover renovation plan, Quada said.

"The plan is for four or five apartments or condominiums, depending on what's approved by the Historic District Commission," Quada said Monday.

Home was built in 1874.

photoLith
Sep 19, 2017, 1:49 PM
^
That's great news, I photographed that house when I was there this past December. Will look amazing restored. It's pretty incredible how they're saving these completely trashed houses in Detroit. Whenever people talk about houses being too far gone to save I show them the houses of that neighborhood that have been restored after they're nearly collapsing or in some cases, have collapsed.

subterranean
Sep 19, 2017, 3:37 PM
Awesome. It is sad that there are so few of them left, but it should be an interesting mix of old and new once the City Modern project is complete.

LMich
Sep 20, 2017, 2:06 PM
Tangentially development related, but between the improving economy, and the treasurer's office keeping folks in their homes by a huge outreach to get people on tax payment plans, foreclosures have plummeted in Wayne County:

Detroit, Wayne County see dramatic drop in foreclosures (http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/09/19/detroit-wayne-county-foreclosures-drop/681254001/)

By Elisha Anderson | Detroit Free Press

September 19, 2017

City, county and community leaders touted a substantial drop in foreclosures in Wayne County and Detroit at a news conference today.

Property tax foreclosures in Wayne County were reduced from 28,000 in 2015 to less than 7,000 this year, Wayne County Treasurer Eric Sabree said.

“Of the 43 municipalities in Wayne County, this year 12 of them had zero foreclosures,” he said. “And 15 more had 10 or less foreclosures.”

Wayne County created an interest rate reduction program that allows homeowners to enter payment plans and pay delinquent taxes at an interest rate of 6%, which has dramatically cut foreclosures, officials said.

There are about 36,000 people in payment plans currently, Sabree said.

Detroit-specific:

Duggan zeroed in on stats of owner-occupied houses.

In 2015, there were about 6,400 owner-occupied houses foreclosed in Detroit. This year, he said, the number was 786, an 88% reduction in two years.

Duggan said "786 is still too many."

Duggan said ⅔ of the occupied house foreclosures in Detroit this year were cases where a landlord was collecting rent, but not paying the taxes.

The number of overall tax foreclosures in Detroit this year was 6,315, down from 12,552 in 2016 and 24,793 in 2015, city officials said.

“The last time the foreclosure numbers in Detroit were lower was 2008, just prior to the mortgage industry collapse, when there were 4,392,” a press release from the city said.

animatedmartian
Sep 20, 2017, 4:20 PM
Bedrock today unveiled a package of four transformational developments totaling $2.1B in investment that will create 24,000 jobs in the city

Freep article (http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/michigan/2017/09/20/dan-gilbert-bedrock-jobs-detroit/684344001/).

https://i.imgur.com/JCgL7kz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XZNGwr7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/aM12j3lh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/idypdSDh.jpg

https://twitter.com/BedrockDetroit

From what I understand, construction will be going on simultaneously for all 4 of these projects within the next 5 years. Though it seems like it's being announced as if these are all apart of the same project. The only thing really new seems to be the One Campus Martius rendering and a wider shot of the ground level of the Monroe Block.

subterranean
Sep 20, 2017, 4:43 PM
^God, the Book is so awesome. Glad to see One Campus Martius is finally getting filled in.

Docta_Love
Sep 20, 2017, 4:57 PM
Erb Family Foundation grants $1 million for Motown Museum expansion

By SHERRI WELCH
Crain's Detroit Business
September 20, 2017

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/main_image/7954101/Motown%20Museum%20rendering_i.jpg?itok=cO1VTdO2

-Donation will support educational and entrepreneurial incubator space for young artists
-Museum has now raised $10 million or more toward $50 million project
-It plans to begin the first phase of work on the project this fall.

The Fred A. and Barbara M. Erb Family Foundation has made a $1 million grant to Motown Museum in support of its expansion plan.

The Erb Foundation grant will support the development of an education and community engagement space to serve as educational and entrepreneurial incubator for young artists and a home to the Detroit museum's summer camp and other programs.

The new space will allow the museum to share the legacy of Motown Records' entrepreneurship with students, neighborhood residents and community members, John Erb, president and chair of the Erb Family Foundation, said in a release.

With the latest contribution the museum has raised $10 million or more in the year since it announced the $50 million project, with the largest gift of $6 million coming from Ford Motor Co. and UAW-Ford.

As planned, the 40,000-square-foot expansion will house interactive exhibits, The Ford Motor Company Theater, recording studios, meeting spaces, a cafe and expanded retail.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170920/news/639771/erb-family-foundation-grants-1-million-for-motown-museum-expansion

BVictor1
Sep 20, 2017, 5:16 PM
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170920/news/639771/erb-family-foundation-grants-1-million-for-motown-museum-expansion


http://www.wxyz.com/news/dan-gilbert-bedrock-to-create-24000-new-jobs-to-the-city-of-detroit

The North One
Sep 20, 2017, 7:07 PM
http://www.wxyz.com/news/dan-gilbert-bedrock-to-create-24000-new-jobs-to-the-city-of-detroit

There's a better rendering of the taller Monroe block in the video, it looks so fucking sleek and elegant, I love the verticle lines.

Docta_Love
Sep 20, 2017, 7:18 PM
By the way it would be cool to see some retail space added below the addition on One Campus Martius since it will be right next to the Hudson's tower but that's where the loading docks are located so it may not be possible. Same with the O.C.M. parking garage with the Monroe Block Development across Monroe St. seems like it will feel rather dead along that section. But hey i'm just happy to see these developments not gonna nit pick but it would be cool if they could add even a small amount of space especially on Monroe.

The North One
Sep 20, 2017, 9:20 PM
Here it is, it looks so damn good.

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/20/-8d030d1e9818b490.jpg

Another ground floor shot. This must be the Monroe Avenue frontage.
http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/20/-8bd92c63353c8306.jpg
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/21b_investment_with_250m_from.html

subterranean
Sep 20, 2017, 10:09 PM
^ I love it, but a part of me wishes the tall one (Hudson's) looked like this.

Reminds me a bit of the Edythe Green-Wendell Wyatt Federal Building in Portland with the vertical lines.

animatedmartian
Sep 20, 2017, 11:02 PM
Park Avenue Building hits the market several months after the owner has died. No price listing as of yet, but I'd imagine this might get scooped up pretty quick given the activity of the surrounding area.

https://i.imgur.com/cuMJ4Hth.jpg
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170920/news/639816/park-avenue-building-downtown-hits-market-after-owners-death

LMich
Sep 21, 2017, 3:27 AM
Here it is, it looks so damn good.

http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/20/-8d030d1e9818b490.jpg

Another ground floor shot. This must be the Monroe Avenue frontage.
http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/detroit/photo/2017/09/20/-8bd92c63353c8306.jpg
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2017/09/21b_investment_with_250m_from.html

Those are the old renderings, right?

The North One
Sep 21, 2017, 3:31 AM
No

There were renders released similar to the first angle but it was before they increased the height.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/9bd41400c32ded44dbe294861e335a485c37143d/c=124-0-4075-2971&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2016/11/30/DetroitFreePress/DetroitFreePress/636161077033282454-Campus-Martius-asj.jpg
http://www.freep.com/story/money/business/columnists/2016/11/30/gilbert-detroit-development-bedrock/94628514/

Docta_Love
Sep 21, 2017, 5:05 PM
Great project hope we see more like it to come!

Vacant school in Detroit's Banglatown to be converted to affordable housing

By KURT NAGL
Crain's Detroit Business
September 21, 2017

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/banglatown%20rendering_i.jpg?itok=DiR7OtBu

-$6.4 million redevelopment
-All 23 apartments to be affordable housing
-18 blighted houses in neighborhood to be demolished


A vacant Catholic school in Detroit's Banglatown neighborhood is being redeveloped into affordable housing under a new $6.4 million project announced by the city Thursday.

The 23-unit apartment building, on Syracuse Street north of Hamtramck, will be 100 percent affordable housing at 60 percent of the median area income.

The Archdiocese of Detroit is selling the Transfiguration School building, vacated in 2005, to Ethos Development Partners and Building Blocks Nonprofit Housing Corp., which will lead the project. Construction is expected to begin in fall 2018 and be complete late in 2019.

The project will be funded through the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, historic tax credits and low income tax credits.

In addition to the redevelopment, the plan calls for the demolition of 18 blighted homes in the neighborhood.

....

Dubbed Banglatown in 2015, the neighborhood is home to many Bangladeshi-Americans and is also one of the poorer ones in the city, where nearly two-thirds of residents live at or below the poverty level, according to the city.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170921/news/639891/vacant-school-in-detroits-banglatown-to-be-converted-to-affordable

skyscraperpage17
Sep 21, 2017, 10:18 PM
Unfortunately, this abomination on the Statler site appears to be breaking ground

(From DetroitYES!)

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=34223&d=1506019590

https://www.detroityes.com/mb/attachment.php?attachmentid=34222

https://media.tenor.com/images/861ec956eecd81b0e0588265c7779944/tenor.gif

The North One
Sep 21, 2017, 10:35 PM
Good that space desperately needs to be filled.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 21, 2017, 10:39 PM
Good that space desperately needs to be filled.

Ideally, the focus should have been on quality over quantity.

But it's a done deal now. I will proceed with the bleaching of my eyes. :yuck:

deja vu
Sep 22, 2017, 3:11 AM
Ideally, the focus should have been on quality over quantity.

But it's a done deal now. I will proceed with the bleaching of my eyes. :yuck:

That proposed 'successor' to the Statler lacks quality AND quantity. Something far more substantial could go in such a prominent spot. Better than nothing I suppose.

deja vu
Sep 22, 2017, 4:16 AM
Didn't see this coming - apparently Southfield is throwing in for the Ama-zon / zing Race.


Amazon will get headquarters bid for closed Northland Mall (http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/2017/09/amazon_will_get_headquarters_b.html)
September 21, 2017
By Paula Gardner | MLive

LMich
Sep 22, 2017, 4:42 AM
Better than nothing I suppose.

Ten years ago, I'd have agreed with that statement. Not now. Literally any other developer with control of that site would put up something more substantial, now. Detroit doesn't have to settle, anymore.

The North One
Sep 22, 2017, 4:46 AM
I know people love to shit on it but I don't see much wrong with the Statler proposal, it looks fine. I don't care if it's not 30 stories that site doesn't have to be.

LMich
Sep 22, 2017, 4:48 AM
You have incredibly strange tastes in architecture. You griped for days about the fairly moderate redesign of the Hudson site proposal as if it were the end of the world, but this is all right with you? The materials look of low-to-moderate quality and the massing is all wrong, even putting aside the problem of the size of the project.

The North One
Sep 22, 2017, 5:11 AM
Well, that's an exaggeration. I didn't like Hudson's redesign at first but it's grown on me, I merely emphasized the fact that the design won't be finalized until 2018.

The renders they released of Statler were kind of low quality so I'm not sure how you can judge the materials like that, it's just not nearly the monstrosity everyone wants to perpetuate, sorry for not contributing to the circlejerk.

There is no parking garage, no setbacks, it has ground floor retail and a cool looking courtyard. I get that it's not ideal for such a site on Grand Circus and Washington Boulevard but god, I'm so fucking sick of hearing people bitch about it. If you wanna start going full NIMBY and protest the project then do what you can, I just want this jarring parking lot to bite the dust.

Ifactwo
Sep 22, 2017, 8:58 AM
Amazing city skyscrapers and beautiful place.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 22, 2017, 11:45 AM
Didn't see this coming - apparently Southfield is throwing in for the Ama-zon / zing Race.

^^^Crap like that is how we lost the Volkswagen plant. :hell:

SpartanTom
Sep 22, 2017, 3:43 PM
^^^Crap like that is how we lost the Volkswagen plant. :hell:

According to the Freep article, all of the Michigan bids will be submitted to the MEDC which will choose the best to submit for consideration so we don't have three competing bids in the state.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 22, 2017, 3:58 PM
Well, that's an exaggeration. I didn't like Hudson's redesign at first but it's grown on me, I merely emphasized the fact that the design won't be finalized until 2018.

The renders they released of Statler were kind of low quality so I'm not sure how you can judge the materials like that, it's just not nearly the monstrosity everyone wants to perpetuate, sorry for not contributing to the circlejerk.

There is no parking garage, no setbacks, it has ground floor retail and a cool looking courtyard. I get that it's not ideal for such a site on Grand Circus and Washington Boulevard but god, I'm so fucking sick of hearing people bitch about it. If you wanna start going full NIMBY and protest the project then do what you can, I just want this jarring parking lot to bite the dust.

Why is a parking garage such a bad thing? If it's done right, it can actually make a project far more attractive.

It would be great is Detroit started following the lead of developers in Nashville. The vast majority of their new high rises consist of above-ground parking garages being integrated into the design of the building (which adds several stories of height to the structure). See the new Bridgestone HQ as an example.

EDIT: And I understand your frustration with seeing vacant lots / parking lots. That being said, it's not a good enough reason for us to have such low standards for developments in our city. Ensuring development is symmetrical with the surrounding areas and the scale of the site its built on is far more important than building something for the sake of building something. After all, these mistakes will be with us for a very long time once they're complete (see the Brush Park Condos along Woodward that someone mentioned now seem out of place earlier in the thread). There's no blowing up the town and starting over with a blank slate like on Sim City.

The North One
Sep 22, 2017, 4:33 PM
Parking garages are absolutely awful, they're the antithesis of good urbanity. In an ideal world, there should be no above ground parking what-so-ever. I don't care how integrated into the design they could be.

This infatuation with height is absurd, height is meaningless, especially when it's only boosted by an above ground parking garage.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 22, 2017, 4:41 PM
Parking garages are absolutely awful, they're the antithesis of good urbanity. In an ideal world, there should be no above ground parking what-so-ever. I don't care how integrated into the design they could be.

This infatuation with height is absurd, height is meaningless, especially when it's only boosted by an above ground parking garage.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

rlw777
Sep 22, 2017, 5:54 PM
Why is a parking garage such a bad thing? If it's done right, it can actually make a project far more attractive.

It would be great is Detroit started following the lead of developers in Nashville. The vast majority of their new high rises consist of above-ground parking garages being integrated into the design of the building (which adds several stories of height to the structure). See the new Bridgestone HQ as an example.

EDIT: And I understand your frustration with seeing vacant lots / parking lots. That being said, it's not a good enough reason for us to have such low standards for developments in our city. Ensuring development is symmetrical with the surrounding areas and the scale of the site its built on is far more important than building something for the sake of building something. After all, these mistakes will be with us for a very long time once they're complete (see the Brush Park Condos along Woodward that someone mentioned now seem out of place earlier in the thread). There's no blowing up the town and starting over with a blank slate like on Sim City.

First of all nobody should be following the lead of developers in Nashville on integrating parking structures into buildings because Nashville is leading nobody on that front. Parking has been integrated into building designs since Bertrand Goldberg designed Marina City for Chicago in 1959. While parking can add to the aesthetics of a building as in the case of Marina City it is by far a rare exception.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 22, 2017, 6:24 PM
First of all nobody should be following the lead of developers in Nashville on integrating parking structures into buildings because Nashville is leading nobody on that front. Parking has been integrated into building designs since Bertrand Goldberg designed Marina City for Chicago in 1959. While parking can add to the aesthetics of a building as in the case of Marina City it is by far a rare exception.

I didn't say Nashville invented the concept, but my point was they're at least being creative with the development of their buildings to maximize their scale.

Given the relative dearth of new skyscrapers development over the past few decades (Detroit is the only 5+ million metro area whose skyline has barely changed a lick since the 1990s), Detroit could certainly learn a thing or two from a city 1/3 its size that has 30+ new skyscrapers that were recently built or in the pipeline.

But that's just my opinion. I believe Detroit deserves better and should stop punching below its weight, that's all.

subterranean
Sep 22, 2017, 7:02 PM
^Agree with you, SSP17. There is no reason a garage within a well designed building needs to be a negative for urbanity. Not planning for cars is unrealistic, and just because we overbuilt some auto infrastructure and removed/underbuilt transit infrastructure does not mean that automobiles are going anywhere, or the need for us to continue to plan for them. There are very few high income families who are going to buy condos or live in high end apartments without at very least one space, especially in auto-dominated Detroit. Hell, I live in a station community and most households still have two cars. Parking issues are only going to get worse from this point forward in Detroit, too. Ever been downtown with two games going on at the same time?

skyscraperpage17
Sep 22, 2017, 11:17 PM
This is all heresy, so take it for what it's worth.

I just read something from an individual who recent ran into Gilbert at an event in NYC. While discussing the Amazon bid, he mentioned the reasons for pushing the Windsor / Canada connection (which is all have discussed quite a bit).

However, he did apparently mention something else that was interesting. Apparently, he understands Amazon wants to work with the automakers to integrate the Alexa technology into vehicle.

Again, take it for what it's worth.

Docta_Love
Sep 23, 2017, 6:03 PM
Uptown Southfield?

Foster Financial pays $5.1 million for Central Park Plaza in Southfield

By KURT NAGL
Crain's Detroit Business
September 22, 2017

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/sites/default/files/styles/core_colorbox/public/central%20park%20plaza_i.jpg?itok=QbaoQPlL

Real estate developer Foster Financial Co. has acquired Central Park Plaza in Southfield with plans to renovate the 130,000-square-foot office building and market it as an alternative to constricting space in Detroit.

The Grosse Pointe-based developer purchased the six-story building from Detroit-based Sterling Group for $5.1 million in a deal brokered by Michael Valant of Newmark Knight Frank, a New York-based real estate firm with an office in Southfield. The deal closed Sept. 15.

"As Detroit starts to get more and more expensive, there are a lot of companies that won't be able to come downtown," said Bradley Foster, owner of Foster Financial. "We're trying to offer lower cost options for business."

Foster said he plans renovations to the tune of "several hundreds of thousands of dollars," with the goal of making the space turn-key and upper scale.

....

Central Park Plaza is the developer's sixth acquisition in the last two years, Foster said, and it is actively pursuing "major acquisitions" in downtown Detroit.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170922/news/640006/foster-financial-pays-51-million-for-central-park-plaza-in-southfield

skyscraperpage17
Sep 23, 2017, 6:50 PM
I thought this article about the thirst for Amazon was hilarious! (Detroit is included):

https://www.theringer.com/tech/2017/9/21/16341568/amazon-headquarters-competition

That said, a very sage point is made within the article, which is why landing Amazon is so critical:

A fall in the number of economic development deals (https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/09/tax-break-auctions-for-foxconn-apple-and-now-amazons-hq2-why-states-and-cities-keep-granting-outrageous-megadeals/539427/) in recent years means mayors and governors have fewer opportunities to bolster their political standing with shiny new factories or corporate headquarters.

animatedmartian
Sep 23, 2017, 11:16 PM
That said, a very sage point is made within the article, which is why landing Amazon is so critical:

A fall in the number of economic development deals (https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/09/tax-break-auctions-for-foxconn-apple-and-now-amazons-hq2-why-states-and-cities-keep-granting-outrageous-megadeals/539427/) in recent years means mayors and governors have fewer opportunities to bolster their political standing with shiny new factories or corporate headquarters.

You mean to tell me government leaders across the country actually had to deal with the task of balancing budgets, improving infrastructure, and funding schools in order to get their citizens to keep them in office? What a struggle. :rolleyes:

I guess we Detroiters have been spoiled with such an inefficient government (across multiple levels) for so long that seeing it come together in hopes of landing a big cash cow is actually kind of heartwarming. At the very least, I hope this Amazon hype will inspire the region towards more lofty goals rather than just being content with being average.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 24, 2017, 12:07 AM
You mean to tell me government leaders across the country actually had to deal with the task of balancing budgets, improving infrastructure, and funding schools in order to get their citizens to keep them in office? What a struggle. :rolleyes:

You missed the point.

The chart below (linked in the article I posted) does a better job of showing my point:

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2017/09/Charts_Foxconn_03_1/37a2b45d7.png

(BTW, Conway Data really loosened their definition for US facilities and expansions after 2008, so the numbers post-2008 seem much better than they actually are).

Companies are engaging in very little capital investment these days. Capital investment translates into increased tax revenue and jobs. If government officials can't generate sufficient tax revenue to provide servies and attract a sufficient number of jobs for the citizens in their jurisdiction to support themselves, then the citizens they represent will vote them out.

Thus when these increasingly few and far between spurts of capital investment occur, you're seeing governments trip all over themselves to ensure it happens in their backyard.

animatedmartian
Sep 24, 2017, 3:48 AM
You missed the point.

The chart below (linked in the article I posted) does a better job of showing my point:


(BTW, Conway Data really loosened their definition for US facilities and expansions after 2008, so the numbers post-2008 seem much better than they actually are).

Companies are engaging in very little capital investment these days. Capital investment translates into increased tax revenue and jobs. If government officials can't generate sufficient tax revenue to provide servies and attract a sufficient number of jobs for the citizens in their jurisdiction to support themselves, then the citizens they represent will vote them out.

Thus when these increasingly few and far between spurts of capital investment occur, you're seeing governments trip all over themselves to ensure it happens in their backyard.

No I got the point. But there's a big difference between a city that welcomes big projects to add to growth and cities that only rely on big projects to generate growth.

The way the original statement was worded made it sound like most of the cities in contention were struggling for growth and Amazon was going to turn things around for them. Or like, voters would overlook other issues in a city just because of winning Amazon.

skyscraperpage17
Sep 24, 2017, 11:15 AM
No I got the point. But there's a big difference between a city that welcomes big projects to add to growth and cities that only rely on big projects to generate growth.

The way the original statement was worded made it sound like most of the cities in contention were struggling for growth and Amazon was going to turn things around for them. Or like, voters would overlook other issues in a city just because of winning Amazon.

I wouldn't say those cities are struggling for growth, but it's true that the growth is occurring at a much slower rate than they would like (before the Great Recession).

BTW, my point is just welcoming something that's barely happening in the first place isn't enough in today's world.

Docta_Love
Sep 26, 2017, 5:47 PM
Gilbert eyes Uniroyal site redevelopment on Detroit riverfront

By KIRK PINHO
Crain's Detroit Busines
September 25, 2017

Dan Gilbert's team has been quietly working on a deal for one of the most perplexing and environmentally challenging properties available for redevelopment in Detroit: the city-owned former Uniroyal Tire Co. factory site on the east riverfront.

Five sources familiar with the negotiations who were not allowed to speak publicly about them confirmed the discussions to Crain's. A sixth, Steve Hoin, senior geologist with the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, said he met with Gilbert representatives this spring to discuss the site.

"The discussion focused on site issues that might impede development and their interest in that issue," Hoin said.

There is no deal finalized, sources said. But if Gilbert strikes one for the Uniroyal property, the site across from Belle Isle would easily be the most daunting — and largest — he and his team have added to their development pipeline during the real estate and mortgage mogul's seven-year buying and building spree in and around downtown Detroit. It would also plant a large development flag farther outside downtown than his efforts have previously ventured.

....

One of the sources said a mixed-use development is envisioned for the site, while another said it's in line with the 2,000 residential-unit plan envisioned by the Pittsburgh-based development group tapped 13 years ago during the Kwame Kilpatrick administration to build on the property.

....

Only a little more than one-third of the site has been cleared of contaminants resulting from more than a century of industrial use. Most recently, 1941-78, it was home to a Uniroyal tire manufacturing plant and a Michigan Consolidated Gas Co. coal-gasification plant. The city bought the land from Uniroyal in 1981 for $5 million and spent $3.6 million more razing structures and clearing the site.

Remediation of just the western 15-acre parcel cost Detroit-based DTE Energy Co., which now owns MichCon; E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Co.; and Michelin USA Inc. around $35 million. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality assigned the cleanup cost to DTE, Michelin, du Pont and London-based Enodis plc in 2006.

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170925/news/640186/gilbert-eyes-uniroyal-site-redevelopment-on-detroit-riverfront

LMich
Sep 27, 2017, 4:16 AM
Interesting. I don't know why I thought Bettis/Betters actually owned the site; I guess they were only given development rights. Glad to hear the city still owns the land.