[Rail Claimore]

gotta say, i'm really looking forward to seeing this! Man I hope it happens!!!

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00009040

Beautiful!

[john3eblover]

Isn't it gorgeous? I think as long as I have been aware of my own existence I have been flying commercially and loving it. Aviation has always been a huge interest of mine, so naturally, growing up in Atlanta and having Delta as my favorite airline, I always longed for the mighty 747. I wasn't sure initially how I felt about the new colors, but they look great in that rendering!! we can only hope this happens and we see that beauty at ATL!

[smArTaLlone]

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM , JIM THARPE

Delta and Northwest have been in talks for weeks, trying to hammer out a merger that would create a mega-carrier, with major U.S., European and Asian hubs. An announcement has been predicted as early as this week, but could be delayed or even derailed if pilot negotiations drag on.

People familiar with the talks say other major issues have been resolved, but senior management at both airlines want to get pilots on the same page before a merger is announced. That has been a historically difficult task in other mergers.

Union leaders representing both carriers' pilots have been working overtime in an attempt to resolve issues ranging from seniority standing to the type of airplanes pilots will be permitted to fly.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2008/02/13/delta_0214.html)

[Harry Cane]

Well, we always hped for this and maybe even assumed it, but this is good to read.


http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080213/airlines_airfrance.html?.v=1

Delta and Northwest have agreed on major terms for a tie-up, including keeping Delta's name and Atlanta headquarters and having Delta Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson run the combined carrier, Bloomberg said in its report.
Delta and Northwest have agreed on major terms for a tie-up, including keeping Delta's name and Atlanta headquarters and having Delta Chief Executive Officer Richard Anderson run the combined carrier, Bloomberg said in its report.

[megalopolis]

And that gives Air France/KLM a sizeable stake in the combined airline too.

[john3eblover]

Sounds like it's almost official. Should be by today sometime.

[Unity77]

I'm not sure as to how close a Delta - NWA merger is.

Here is some interesting news:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-fri_airlinesfeb15,0,4718752.story

United Airlines is in advanced negotiations to combine with Houston-based Continental Airlines and is poised to quickly seal a deal if Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines merge, a person close to the airlines said Thursday.

However, Chicago-based United hasn't ruled out pursuing Delta if the Atlanta-based carrier is unable to overcome labor differences with Northwest, sources said.

[trnsplnt]

Word is: NWA Agents/Attendants etc. already have their DL uniforms.

[GTviajero81]

Word is: NWA Agents/Attendants etc. already have their DL uniforms.

Not possible. Or, rather, it is nearly impossible for that to have already occurred. Ask anyone who has to wear a uniform in this business and the phrase "On back-order" is as common as "Welcome Aboard!" There is almost no way really for NWA Agents to already possess DL uniforms as they would all have to get fitted (different styles and cuts for these uniforms with respect to DL uniforms) and the sheer amount of production would take a while. I think that someone was pulling your leg.

[Harry Cane]

not only that, but if it were true, we would have already heard about it in the press.

[SteveD]

Reports in today's paper point towards a likely announcement towards the end of next week.

[atlantaguy]

I sure hope things work out with NW. While not my favorite carrier by a longshot, anything would be better than a takeover by United. That would be the worst-case scenario for Atlanta and Delta by far.

[NativeAtlantan]

I sure hope things work out with NW. While not my favorite carrier by a longshot, anything would be better than a takeover by United. That would be the worst-case scenario for Atlanta and Delta by far.

I am not an airline guru by any means and don't have a feel for what the best possible scenario is with regards to airline consolidation (as it relates to Delta).

Could someone explain to me what the general consensus is regarding Delta's ideal merger scenario? I mean, NW/DL sounds like it could be good but is there something that the DL power folks would prefer even more, if it could work? And a quick sentence on why?

[Tombstoner]

I am not an airline guru by any means and don't have a feel for what the best possible scenario is with regards to airline consolidation (as it relates to Delta).

Could someone explain to me what the general consensus is regarding Delta's ideal merger scenario? I mean, NW/DL sounds like it could be good but is there something that the DL power folks would prefer even more, if it could work? And a quick sentence on why?

I think many people would say that CO is preferable to NW as a merger partner; the corporate cultures are seen as being compatible (NW has much nastier management-employee relations) and both CO and DL are exclusively Boeing customers (NW will bring a lot of Airbus planes with it) which makes fleet management easier. Of course, CO brings several problems with it as well (EWR competes with JFK as an international gateway, CO doesn't provide the Asia coverage DL is looking for, having the two major hubs in the SE isn't optimal, etc.) but I think CO would be more popular than NW among most of DL's best customers.

[SteveD]

I'm not an airline person either but I think "the Asia coverage Delta is looking for" sums it all up in a few words. I would think that trumps all other considerations, no?

And I have to say I'm delighted that so far I'm hearing the Delta name and Atlanta headquarters are to be retained.

[Harry Cane]

I think all three airlines, Continental, United and Northwest, bring good as well as bad.

Continental brings a reputation for the best service and fleet commnality that makes integration easier. The also have built up good labor relations with their employees. It doesn't bring the Asia routes DL is sorely lacking and seeking. It also doesn't bring anything it doesn't have already. CO and DL are both big players across the Atlantic and into Latin America. They also have overlapping hubs in Newark/JFK, Cleveland/Cincinatti.

United brings the Asia routes and probably the best hubs in the country--Washington, Chicago, Denver and most of all, west coast hubs in SF and LA. It doesn't bring in the fleet commonality, though with the number of planes in both fleets, it becomes less of an issue. The problem with United is that it has terrible employee morale, and the sheer size of the combined airlines would be difficult to pass through regulators.

Northwest brings Asia routes, a strong presence in the midwest. It doesn't bring the fleet commonality, but again, with the size of the fleets is not as big an issue. Because there's very little overlap in routes (DL in the east, NW in the midwest, DL in Europe/Latin America/Africa, NW in Asia) and because they're not as big as United, it might be easier to pass through regulators. It also makes it easier that they're in the same alliance (Skyteam) as DL (although Continental is too). NW is also closely tied to KLM, which is owned by Air France, which is closely tied to DL.

Did I leave out anything?

[Trae]

I think many people would say that CO is preferable to NW as a merger partner; the corporate cultures are seen as being compatible (NW has much nastier management-employee relations) and both CO and DL are exclusively Boeing customers (NW will bring a lot of Airbus planes with it) which makes fleet management easier. Of course, CO brings several problems with it as well (EWR competes with JFK as an international gateway, CO doesn't provide the Asia coverage DL is looking for, having the two major hubs in the SE isn't optimal, etc.) but I think CO would be more popular than NW among most of DL's best customers.

But CO doesn't have a hub in the Southeast.

It looks like a Continental-United merger will happen, with Continental's CEO will be the CEO of the merged company. I think this would make Continental-United the largest airline, with Delta-Northwest coming in second, and American in third.

[Tombstoner]

But CO doesn't have a hub in the Southeast.



Believe it or not, many people think Houston is in the Southeast. Certainly from an aviation market point of view, both Atlanta and Houston are SE hubs.

And CO/UA will only happen if DL/NW happens (and gets past regulators) -- CO has been very clear on that score.

[Trae]

I am sure Delta-NW will happen. All signs point to it.

[LouisianaCharm]

.........and if they would have taken over that would have been a big blow to dallas with 2 of the largest airlines in the world, and houston just south.....

[Fiorenza]

Are we saying that CO is going to be the survivor in a merger with UA? It would be great, but somehow I doubt it happens like that.

[john3eblover]

CO is a vastly superior airline right now compared to UA...

From what i've read, the airbus/boeing compatability issues are not as big of a deal as we might think. Delta does a lot of maintenance for both airline types, as does NW

[Trae]

Are we saying that CO is going to be the survivor in a merger with UA? It would be great, but somehow I doubt it happens like that.

Yeah, it looks like it. CO's current CEO will be the head of the merged airline company. United's current CEO will have a different position (forgot exactly what it was).

[Fiorenza]

Minnesota politicians support DL/NW merger (http://www.finance-commerce.com/article.cfm/2008/02/19/Pawlenty-lawmakers-support-NWADelta-merger)

[megalopolis]

Delta, Northwest deal looks imminent

By JIM THARPE, RUSSELL GRANTHAM
STAFF REPORT
Published on: 02/19/08

The boards of Delta and Northwest airlines are poised to decide on whether to move forward with a merger, and a Minneapolis-based airline consultant says he expects an announcement of a deal by Thursday.

The New York Times reported that both boards plan an "emergency meeting" Tuesday, at which a deal might be approved. Other reports said the boards will meet Wednesday.

Terry Trippler, the Minneapolis consultant and a widely-quoted fare expert, said he expects the announcement of a deal to create an Atlanta-based mega-airline in the next two days.

"I'm telling people here: "Get over it," Trippler told the AJC Tuesday in a telephone interview. "The Fortune 500 company is gone. The headquarters is gone. The red tail is gone. But the critical thing is the hub, and we will save the hub."

Northwest has its headquarters and main hub in Minneapolis.

Trippler said he expects the announcement to be made in Atlanta, and the new airline to be called Delta.

"It will be one hell of an airline," Trippler said of a merged Delta and Northwest. "It becomes a global airline overnight."

Speculation about an impending merger has increased in recent days.

One potential hitch: the airlines are believed to want their pilot unions to reach agreement on integration before going further.

The AJC last week reported that pilots had agreed on the broad strokes of such a plan, but that details remained to be ironed out. That issue still could delay a board vote.

A Delta-Northwest marriage would create the world's biggest airline and perhaps prompt other mergers that would consolidate the industry.

Georgia politicians say Delta executives have assured them the merged carrier would be headquartered in Atlanta and called Delta. Delta itself has not publicly acknowledged talks with Northwest, but rather has said it is studying strategic alternatives.

Announcement of a deal would not make it final. A merger would have to be approved by the U.S. Department of Justice, a process that could take months, and one whose outcome is far from certain.

Speculation has circulated that a Delta-Northwest pairing would prod rival United Airlines into a run at Continental Airlines, while American Airlines might then be forced to link up with US Airways. That would collapse the six biggest hub-and-spoke carriers into three and could intensify concerns about the effect on competition.

[Unity77]

Officials: Delta-Northwest Deal at Risk
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvT6NX4k_YVkVtwqeij5T_qaczpwD8UU4P3G0

An impasse among pilot negotiators over determining seniority put a $20 billion deal to combine Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. in "serious jeopardy" as the companies' boards prepared to meet Wednesday, two people close to the talks told The Associated Press.

[MarketsWork]

Typical pilot behavior.

[smArTaLlone]

Renderings (http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/business/0227airport/) of the new terminal design from the AJC.

[Harry Cane]

I wonder if MARTA will be expanded to the new terminal and how that will be done.

[Rail Claimore]

I wonder if MARTA will be expanded to the new terminal and how that will be done.

Perhaps they'll actually build that Hapeville branch of the South Line. That'll get it there.

[Harry Cane]

Ooops. I just saw the map in the compilations thread with the loop at the end of the south line and there's a Jackson Terminal stop. It'll be odd that internanational travelers will stay past several more stations, but I guess it'll work.

[ThrashATL]

I wonder if MARTA will be expanded to the new terminal and how that will be done.

Its too bad they didn't do the inter-concourse train system right the first time by dual tracking. Trains pull into stations off the main rail leaving the main rail free for express trains from end to end. A train could pass through the airport without people having to go through security until they arrived at the international terminal. People could get off MARTA at the current station and board an international terminal express people mover train.

[NativeAtlantan]

Passenger perks the buzz of proposed international terminal
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

By Jim Tharpe

You'll get there from a different interstate, and you won't have to recheck your baggage.

Those are two big changes globetrotting travelers will see by 2011 when Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport opens its new international terminal, a soaring glass wing of a building that will cost more than a billion dollars.

The Transportation Committee of the Atlanta City Council on Wednesday will be asked to approve about $1.2 billion for construction of the long-anticipated terminal, which has been discussed since the late 1990s. Roadways, underground trains and other costs will push the cost to about $1.6 billion — twice the original estimate — by the time the terminal opens its 12 new gates in about three years.

Transportation Committee members, who oversee the world's busiest airport, got their first glimpse at new plans for the terminal Wednesday morning.

Fliers will approach the Maynard Holbrook Jackson Jr. International Terminal — named for Atlanta's late mayor — from Interstate 75. And because there is curbside pick-up, arriving international travelers will not have to recheck their bags as they now do.

The current international gate complex, built for the 1996 Olympics, is located on Concourse E, which can only be accessed through the distant main airport terminal off Interstate 85. Arriving international travelers currently have to recheck their bags once they clear U.S. Customs and retrieve them after a train ride or long hike to the main terminal. The baggage recheck system is often cited in surveys as a major complaint by the 86 million people a year who use Hartsfield-Jackson.

The new terminal will have its own gates and parking deck, and will be accessed via I-75. It will be connected to the main terminal through an underground train that connects the new facility and Concourse E, whose gates will be used primarily for domestic flights.

Located near the control tower, the new facility will encompass 1.2 million square feet. Its soaring glass walls with a view of the Atlanta skyline are intended to make a bold statement to arriving passengers.

The design is by Atlanta Gateway Designers, which the city hired after firing the first firm, Leo A Daly, in 2005. At the time the city cited costs and delays. Daly sued the city for damages, and the litigation is still pending.

The new terminal coincides with Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines' push to vastly increase its international business, the most profitable arena for the financially strapped airlines. Delta accounts for more than 70 percent of the airport's business, and has increased its international destinations from Hartsfield-Jackson five fold since 1996. It now serves 81 offshore destinations.

Delta has been a key supporter of the new terminal, but objects to an increase in the construction contingency fund contained in the current proposal. The contingency was $58 million, but has been increased to $168 million .

"The terminal is an important part of our international growth strategy and we are in support of the project and its budget which was approved last year," said Delta spokeswoman Susan Elliott. "Delta does not support the latest proposal calling for a $110 million increase to the contingency fund. This project needs to be managed in a cost effective manner and having an inflated contingency fund does not accomplish that goal."

[megalopolis]

According to this article, once the new international terminal opens, Concourse E (which is the current international terminal) will be used primarily for domestic flights. Concourse E has 28 gates. So ATL will go from having 28 international gates to 12?

If they continue to use some gates at Concourse E for international flights, will those passengers still have to re-check their bags, or will the fact that it's connected to the new international terminal (which has curb-side pick-up) eliminate that need?

What will they do with the current customs facility in concourse E?

Also, will the planned South Gate Complex (with up to 70 gates) be called the Hartsfield South Gate Complex? It seems only logical since they're calling the international terminal the Jackson International Terminal.

[NativeAtlantan]

That will be named the Holbrook South Gate Complex.

;-)

[Rail Claimore]

According to this article, once the new international terminal opens, Concourse E (which is the current international terminal) will be used primarily for domestic flights. Concourse E has 28 gates. So ATL will go from having 28 international gates to 12?

If they continue to use some gates at Concourse E for international flights, will those passengers still have to re-check their bags, or will the fact that it's connected to the new international terminal (which has curb-side pick-up) eliminate that need?

What will they do with the current customs facility in concourse E?

Also, will the planned South Gate Complex (with up to 70 gates) be called the Hartsfield South Gate Complex? It seems only logical since they're calling the international terminal the Jackson International Terminal.

Of the international gates in E, I doubt more than 10 of them are used for international arrivals. The new terminal will probably take over that role. E will still be used for more than a few international departures though.

[micropundit]

Atlanta Business Chronicle
Plans for the new $1 billion-plus Maynard Jackson International Terminal at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport were unveiled Wednesday, revealing a glass wing design and some radical upgrades.

The 1.2 million-square-foot international terminal will have 12 new international gates (16 domestic) and a 1,100-space parking facility when finished in 2011. Hartsfield-Jackson will have a total of 40 international gates when the new terminal comes online.
International travelers will be pleased to learn the new terminal eliminates the baggage recheck process. Currently, international passengers must claim their luggage, go through U.S. Customs, recheck their luggage and then reclaim it once again. The new terminal will allow international passengers to exit the existing building directly into a general meeting area.

In an interesting traffic twist, the first terminal access to Hartsfield-Jackson via Interstate 75, the east side of the airport, is part of the plan. It will link up with the main terminal at Concourse E via underground train. The new international terminal will also have a two-level roadway system and curb front to separate departing and arriving vehicle traffic.

Atlanta Gateway Designers designed the facility, which features a large glass wall that will give arriving passengers a dramatic view of Atlanta's skyline.

Last year, more than 9 million international travelers came through Hartsfield-Jackson. But more than 13 million international passengers are expected to come through the Maynard Jackson International Terminal by 2015.

The Atlanta City Council's Transportation Committee must approve $1.6 billion to build the new terminal, roadways and underground trains.

[sabino86]

That will be named the Holbrook South Gate Complex.

;-)

:haha:

[midtowngt]

Its too bad they didn't do the inter-concourse train system right the first time by dual tracking. Trains pull into stations off the main rail leaving the main rail free for express trains from end to end. A train could pass through the airport without people having to go through security until they arrived at the international terminal. People could get off MARTA at the current station and board an international terminal express people mover train.

The people mover will connect to the rest of the airport just like the rest of terminals.

[ThrashATL]

The people mover will connect to the rest of the airport just like the rest of terminals.

You missed my point. Dual tracking would be two tracks on each side of the station. A train can bypass any/all stations from end to end, thus allowing express trains for convenience or security purposes.

[Fiorenza]

So is the merger off?

[ATLtoNYC]

So is the merger off?

Looks like it. According to CBS 46, the talks have been called off.

www.cbs46.com/news/15436291/detail.html

[megalopolis]

That will be named the Holbrook South Gate Complex.

;-)


You jest, but I could totally see that happening.

[john3eblover]

Mergers are inevitable. If not DL/NW, then somebody else. But it will happen

[megalopolis]

I almost want to see this deal fall apart now, just to screw over the greedy Northwest pilots.

[ATLonthebrain]

I highly doubt there was much thought to dual-tracking for the people mover, being that it, along with the rest of the Midfield Terminal Complex (excluding Conc E, of course), was designed over 30-years ago. At that time, were there any other airports with this sort of built-in flexibility? Probably not. Quite frankly, it was a marvel that the trains ended up underground at all, since the initial plan was for the tracks to be at ground level and exposed. Other newer airports can improve on ATL's shortcomings or limitations. Can't go back and change it now. The airport has to work with what it has, and it does, every day.

There hasn't been much talk about it, but seems the Master Plan image I saw recently is showing an expansion of the existing Main Terminal and just a people mover going over to the future South Gate Complex. Doesn't appear there is a terminal showing down there any longer, but 4 parallel concourses similar to the existing layout.

[john3eblover]

well, UA has 747s as well :-D

[midtowngt]

You missed my point. Dual tracking would be two tracks on each side of the station. A train can bypass any/all stations from end to end, thus allowing express trains for convenience or security purposes.

That was the plan the last time I saw the drawings...it was either adding a second set of tracks on both sides or this bazaar "sky bridge" concept that was basically an elevated people mover. The company I was working for was providing on-call cost service for the airport. The dual tracking option was cheaper.

[ThrashATL]

That was the plan the last time I saw the drawings...it was either adding a second set of tracks on both sides or this bazaar "sky bridge" concept that was basically an elevated people mover. The company I was working for was providing on-call cost service for the airport. The dual tracking option was cheaper.

I always wondered why that was never originally done. I'm sure the real reason it wasn't done is that it wasn't needed back in the 70's, a terminal on the east end was never envisioned. You had all the services, the tower, post office, cargo and Delta.... nobody would be crazy enough to try and build over all THAT... Who saw a runway crossing 285?

[Fiorenza]

Delta, airport spar over fund for terminal (http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2008/03/02/terminal_0303.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

My guess is they need the $140 million contingency fund to settle the lawsuit arising from the previous design group that the racist Ben DeCosta and the city fired only a week before the final drawings were due for the Maynard Holbrook Jackson International Terminal, in August 2005. The fired design group was 42% minority-owned, but that wasn't good enough. The new design group is 50+% minority owned, and the time delay will result in an additional $400+ million in cost, plus the cost of settling the lawsuit. Now they also have Delta mad at them due to the huge contingency fund which Delta should never have to underwrite.

Frankly, if I were Delta, I'd say "enough", break up the Atlanta bullshit, and start to build hubs in Charlotte, Nashville, and Jacksonville.

The above story is one example of why Atlanta needs to get enough non-racist voting base in the city to throw out the racist, corrupt political class and put in a truly diverse city leadership. Until they do it, the current investors will continue to leave and new investors will stay away. It's in your hands, Atlanta.

[ThrashATL]

Such a great move by Atlanta government (incompetent to the last). Kill the old deal and then go after a design inferior to the first that costs more money while pissing off the largest tenant responsible for 3/4ths of your airport rent! BRILLIANT! Why does Ben DeCosta still have a job?

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l266/Revolos55/Macros/GuinnessBrilliant.jpg

[Andrea]

I'm all for efficiency but I'm wondering if the folks who are hollering about racism now were equally sensitive to alleged racism 30 years ago when blacks were completely excluded from city (state and county) business, as they had been for the previous 250 years.

[WSUSOM]

Never mind, there will always be those who play the racism card. Truly sad in this day and age!!

[Fiorenza]

What happens now is no more or less wrong than what happened then.

[john3eblover]

I'm all for efficiency but I'm wondering if the folks who are hollering about racism now were equally sensitive to alleged racism 30 years ago when blacks were completely excluded from city (state and county) business, as they had been for the previous 250 years.

So the solution to the problem was to reverse the situation?

[Andrea]

So the solution to the problem was to reverse the situation?

Er, whites aren't excluded from city, state or county business. They still have the lion's share, even though they make up only a third of the city's population.

[dante2308]

deleted

[Fiorenza]

Andrea, whites certainly don't have the lion's share of Atlanta city business, and anyway, race shouldn't enter into it. What if whites had made the comment that "blacks make up only 49% of the city population", back in the day?

[dante2308]

Predominantly white areas don't often elect black officials. It is obvious there are still racial tensions about. This is why the South has the reputation it does.

Disgusting.

[Andrea]

Andrea, whites certainly don't have the lion's share of Atlanta city business, and anyway, race shouldn't enter into it.

Sure they do, Fiorenza. Look at who handles the city's big ticket items like bond work, banking and finance, insurance, airport construction, water/sewer rehabilitation, urban planning, etc.

The argument by whites that everything should be "color blind" is an essence the argument that dominance by whites (often to the exclusion of others) should be continued. That was the rallying cry of segregationists back in the 1960s and 70s. The courts basically said, "Hey, we're not that dumb," in that a "race neutral" policy is simply a way of maintaining the bias in favor of the dominant socioeconomic (and ethnic) group.

[atlantaguy]

Predominantly white areas don't often elect black officials. It is obvious there are still racial tensions about. This is why the South has the reputation it does.

Disgusting.

Well then how do you explain the fact that Shirley Franklin garnered 93% of the vote in her re-election bid? She got almost ALL of the white vote.

I find blanket statements such as yours disgusting. If you think racial tensions are somehow owned by the South, you really need to get out of the region and travel some. I can assure you we are in much, much better shape than large portions of the country - including some of our so called "premiere" cities that look down their noses at the South.:yes:

[john3eblover]

That statement above is absolutely true. I travel to a lot of different states and cities pretty frequently. I am constantly amazed at how other areas of the country are much more prone to "racist" behavior than the south might be. My guess is that it is because some areas of the country just don't have a lot of minorities, so they haven't had to deal with it on the same level as you might if you live in the south? I have spent a lot of time in the midwest, including living here for about 5 years now, and there are so few minorities in any of the areas that I have been, that you almost forget about racial tensions.

There might still be some of the biggest problems in the south, but I also think the south has come the farthest and has some of the best progress.

[echinatl]

I really dont think racism is that big of a problem. I've noticed that usually old people bring it up... constantly, while young people don't. Eventually when all of the old people die off it'll be gone.

Obama is even going to be our next president!

[Andrea]

The whole race thing is so 2000s.

[RobMidtowner]

Predominantly white areas don't often elect black officials. It is obvious there are still racial tensions about. This is why the South has the reputation it does.

Disgusting.

I could almost agree with you but this comment doesn't take into account the relative merits of competing candidates. Shouldn't we vote based on merits and not focus on color? How can you prove that white areas elect based on color and not merit? I agree with atlantaguy, making blanket statements like this are disgusting and only propagate racial tensions. You're making accusations without evidence to back it up so it's just an opinion. And it's a racist opinion portraying "white areas" as racist areas so how does this help anything? :shrug:

Giving someone a free card because of their skin color is wrong.

[dante2308]

Well then how do you explain the fact that Shirley Franklin garnered 93% of the vote in her re-election bid? She got almost ALL of the white vote.

I find blanket statements such as yours disgusting. If you think racial tensions are somehow owned by the South, you really need to get out of the region and travel some. I can assure you we are in much, much better shape than large portions of the country - including some of our so called "premiere" cities that look down their noses at the South.:yes:

Hah, I don't even know if I should respond to this one. I'll just retract my statement.

I must mention that I only moved to the South in 2003 and I've moved over a dozen times in my life. I'm not calling whites racist or blacks racist or singling out anyone. I'm just tireed of dealing with the disgusting nature of US and in fact worldwide race relations and I'm a bit bitter about it. My (ex?) best friend recently decided that black people were wholly inferior and I still haven't gotten over it. Don't mind me.

[dante2308]

I could almost agree with you but this comment doesn't take into account the relative merits of competing candidates. Shouldn't we vote based on merits and not focus on color? How can you prove that white areas elect based on color and not merit? I agree with atlantaguy, making blanket statements like this are disgusting and only propagate racial tensions. You're making accusations without evidence to back it up so it's just an opinion. And it's a racist opinion portraying "white areas" as racist areas so how does this help anything? :shrug:

Giving someone a free card because of their skin color is wrong.

Not advocating anyone get a free card but I think you know that. I just wish it wasn't an issue. I'm sick of defending my intelligence and merits as an individual to people I meet.

[NativeAtlantan]

Sure they do, Fiorenza. Look at who handles the city's big ticket items like bond work, banking and finance, insurance, airport construction, water/sewer rehabilitation, urban planning, etc.

The argument by whites that everything should be "color blind" is an essence the argument that dominance by whites (often to the exclusion of others) should be continued. That was the rallying cry of segregationists back in the 1960s and 70s. The courts basically said, "Hey, we're not that dumb," in that a "race neutral" policy is simply a way of maintaining the bias in favor of the dominant socioeconomic (and ethnic) group.

Andrea, your premise assumes that people are racially motivated, which I believe is true. Fiorenza's point is that people should not be racially motivated thereby eliminating the need for reverse discrimination, which you support.

[WSUSOM]

I was in Atlanta over the weekend for a clinical skills exam and I was really impressed at the improvements at the airport( I usually drive from Dayton to Atlanta). The concourses seemed brighter and cleaner than I previously remembered and the bathrooms were actually clean enough to use without closing your eyes and holding your breath. I also saw several airline employees picking up trash as they were walking through the concourses. As much as people on this board love to B**** about Hartsfield, I'm always impressed at it's ease of use and efficiency. Only if the GDOT could be this efficient, not only would we have the worlds' busiest airport to brag about but we would also be able to boast about our world class transportation system. Maybe it's just me but it seems the people of metro Atlanta are quick to question ones competency when it comes to the city of Atlanta and the operation of the airport, but when it comes to the political appointments of Governor Perdue to the GDOT and their annual abuse of the budget , no one seems to say a word. Hey what do I know, maybe I'm naive and have failed to realize this is how things are suppose to be.

[Fiorenza]

You're right, W. The airport has improved tremendously. I have to pass through LGA periodically - the restrooms there are small, and reek. We are lucky in Atlanta to have such a clean facility.

At this time, I think the main issues in Atlanta are street surfaces, obsolete traffic signals, poor maintenance of street lights and rights of way, and not quickly removing graffiti. With the budget shortfall I don't imagine things will get much better anytime soon.

[initiald]

As much as people on this board love to B**** about Hartsfield, I'm always impressed at it's ease of use and efficiency.

I agree. I've never had a bad experience with ATL. Much preferred over ORD. :tup: I'll be back through ATL in May & June.

[john3eblover]

I miss flying in and out of Atlanta constantly. I miss it a lot. It's my favorite airport and always has been.

[Trae]

Yeah, I remember ATL being very busy and clean. The subway under the airport was packed.

[RobMidtowner]

I was in Atlanta over the weekend for a clinical skills exam and I was really impressed at the improvements at the airport( I usually drive from Dayton to Atlanta). The concourses seemed brighter and cleaner than I previously remembered and the bathrooms were actually clean enough to use without closing your eyes and holding your breath. I also saw several airline employees picking up trash as they were walking through the concourses. As much as people on this board love to B**** about Hartsfield, I'm always impressed at it's ease of use and efficiency. Only if the GDOT could be this efficient, not only would we have the worlds' busiest airport to brag about but we would also be able to boast about our world class transportation system. Maybe it's just me but it seems the people of metro Atlanta are quick to question ones competency when it comes to the city of Atlanta and the operation of the airport, but when it comes to the political appointments of Governor Perdue to the GDOT and their annual abuse of the budget , no one seems to say a word. Hey what do I know, maybe I'm naive and have failed to realize this is how things are suppose to be.


In Perdue's defense (I don't even know why I'm saying this), he did support the new GDOT commissioner who is coming in and cleaning house and bringing accountability to the department.

[Dragonheart8588]

In Perdue's defense (I don't even know why I'm saying this), he did support the new GDOT commissioner who is coming in and cleaning house and bringing accountability to the department.

Yeah, the only smart thing he had done so far for the last 6 years.

[Fiorenza]

You Democrats with positive things to say about DOT reform...it's nice to see that you now approve of Gena Abraham, given that all the Democrat DOT board members voted against her and for the old-boy status quo candidate!

[RobMidtowner]

^It's not democrat vs. republican, it's good management vs. bad management.

[Fiorenza]

I agree, but evidently those Democratic DOT Board members want to keep trading favors.

[Rail Claimore]

Yeah, I remember ATL being very busy and clean. The subway under the airport was packed.

That "subway" is actually the busiest people-mover in North America, getting over 100,000 riders a day.

[Trae]

Not surprised either.

[Andrea]

Andrea, your premise assumes that people are racially motivated, which I believe is true. Fiorenza's point is that people should not be racially motivated thereby eliminating the need for reverse discrimination, which you support.

No, that's not what I said. I don't support "reverse discrimination."

[Rail Claimore]

Delta working with pilots to make NWA merger work

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/09/08

Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines could roll out their long-delayed merger as early as next week if the Atlanta carrier works out a related agreement with its pilots union, according to one person familiar with the talks.

However, the situation appeared to be fluid. Some people suggested Delta and Northwest could go ahead with earlier merger plans whether they reach an agreement with the pilots or not.

Continued at AJC (http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2008/04/09/delta_0409.html)

[ThrashATL]

Delta working with pilots to make NWA merger work

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/09/08

Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines could roll out their long-delayed merger as early as next week if the Atlanta carrier works out a related agreement with its pilots union, according to one person familiar with the talks.

However, the situation appeared to be fluid. Some people suggested Delta and Northwest could go ahead with earlier merger plans whether they reach an agreement with the pilots or not.

Continued at AJC (http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/stories/2008/04/09/delta_0409.html)

Merging without a deal from the pilots is bringing back shades of the USAir/America West merger debacle.

[STrek777]

Merging without a deal from the pilots is bringing back shades of the USAir/America West merger debacle.

As with the way Delta stunned the financial world and re-wrote the books on how to use bankruptcy to its fullest advantage... I think here too everyone will be going WTF. Delta has come a very long way in a very short period of time. That doesn't happen from dumb luck that takes true talent at the head of the company. I have full confidence that this merger will put US in check and lay the blueprint for future airline mergers to follow. :tup:

Sorry I have been away so long but I'm back! :notacrook: Did ya'll miss me?! :yes:

[ThrashATL]

Sorry I have been away so long but I'm back! :notacrook: Did ya'll miss me?! :yes:

You were gone?

[Tombstoner]

As with the way Delta stunned the financial world and re-wrote the books on how to use bankruptcy to its fullest advantage... I think here too everyone will be going WTF. Delta has come a very long way in a very short period of time.

I'm not sure Delta stunned anyone. It fended off USAir (and only partially due to Delta savvy--the deal has lots going against it) and has subsequently emerged with half it's promised market value (shareholders aren't exactly stunned [at least not in a good way]), cut-backs on service and a still-shaky grip on solvency (regulators aren't exactly stunned) and a range of cutbacks on Medallion benefits (Delta's highest paying customers aren't exactly stunned).

I'm a Delta supporter and Platinum flyer (which only means that my fat ass consistantly sits in their planes a lot), but I think it's laughable to say that Delta has wowed anyone with their financial prowess or "re-wrote" the books on how to leverage bankruptcy.

[sunking1056]

Not a big surprise:

Delta, Northwest reach agreement on merger
Combined company will keep Delta name, Atlanta base

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM, RACHEL TOBIN RAMOS, JIM THARPE
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 04/14/08

Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines announced a merger Monday that they valued at $17.7 billion and said will result in no hub closures and will keep the company headquartered in Atlanta.

The all-stock deal will forge an airline that will be the largest in the world in terms of traffic, but is likely to unleash later merger deals that could be even larger, including a possible deal between United and Continental airlines.

Delta and Northwest said the merged company, which will be called Delta, will result in a stronger carrier in the face of rising fuel costs and a looming recession.

The companies said Delta Chief Executive Richard Anderson will head the companied airline, which will have more than $35 billion in combined revenue and about 75,000 employees.

The deal comes after the boards of Delta and Northwest held separate meetings Monday.

"In the past, we have said that we were not interested in doing a deal for the sake of doing a deal," Anderson said in a memo to Delta's 50,000 employees. "Our need to respond to the pressures of dramatically rising fuel costs and a softening U.S. economy drove us to take a closer look at all options to strengthen our future."

[john3eblover]

mmmm Congrats to Delta and Northwest :)

[STrek777]

mmmm Congrats to Delta and Northwest :)

Isn't this just fabulous!!!! I am really excited! Feel free to check out this new website for answers to many of your questions.

http://www.newglobalairline.com/

:)

[jpk1292000]

Isn't this just fabulous!!!! I am really excited! Feel free to check out this new website for answers to many of your questions.

http://www.newglobalairline.com/

:)

This must be really exciting for Delta employees and it's a HUGE coup for Atlanta, assuming that it passes anti-trust laws, etc.

[NativeAtlantan]

As an Atlanta fan, I am really happy about this. I may even seek employment with the new company, especially if they locate the combined HQ in downtown or midtown.

[Andrea]

I heard a couple of Northwest people interviewed and they were less than enthused.

[NativeAtlantan]

Of course.

I will also add to my previous post that I may be looking for a job in early 2010 so by then there might actually be some jobs available at the new Delta.

[Dragonheart8588]

Isn't this just fabulous!!!! I am really excited! Feel free to check out this new website for answers to many of your questions.

http://www.newglobalairline.com/

:)

STrek777, I think seriously that this website is trying fool everyone. As everyone know, I know very little about the airlines, but I do have a degree in Finance.

Here is how I think what the website/Delta is claiming cannot be possibly be true or make sense financially:

First, they claim that they keep both hubs in the running with little layoffs <-- that would not be cost cutting at all and how are they going to pay for all the costs? Isn't the whole point of merging is to cut costs. It is like running the same 2 companies as one with no change.

They claim that this merger will increase their competitiveness in providing services to customers. <-- While that may be true that we Georgians have more direct flights, but it keep out competitions.

If you check out flights to different destinations where Delta have direct flight and little to no competition, the fares is a lot higher compared to destinations that are serviced by airtran, southwest, or jetblue.

This in the end will hurt consumers and the employees. They will either raised the fares so high that new airline with all employees and hubs so they can be profitable. Or they will have cut a lot of jobs and hubs to maintain its competitiveness.

I'm sorry, but I think this merger will not be a good thing despite the fact that the headquarter/hub remain in Atlanta.

[john3eblover]

blah blah

[john3eblover]

man I'm excited about this merger :)

[Fiorenza]

The Delta side of ALPA today agreed to arbitration. The NW pilots had already agreed. That's huge. Looks as if this merger will really happen.

[STrek777]

With the price of oil closing today at over 119.00 a barrel I think the authorization for this merger is an open/shut case. Pilots will always saber rattle but in the end they too will realize that it is better to work together than to have no job at all and the same goes for all the work groups.

I am really excited about this!

[john3eblover]

man gas is freaking ridiculous. good lord

[ThrashATL]

man gas is freaking ridiculous. good lord

How picky do airlines get now about load factor and revenue per mile now when cutting flights? Pretty damn picky I'll bet.