[Don B.]

This is thanks to Soleri, one of the Phoenix forumers:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/TollBrotherstowercopy.jpg

Here's a concept/rendering of the Toll Brothers' project. The attorney making the presentation at the Encanto Village Committee meeting stated there were 750 condos in two towers. Phase one would be built to the north, Phase two later as market conditions warranted. The committee was largely negative about it, citing traffic, microclimate impact, and air quality as concerns. Both towers would rest on a six floor podium of parking, ground-floor retail, and possibly rise 685 feet. The attorney says the FAA appears unconcerned with the height.

The project is located on the SE corner of Thomas and Central and would be, by far, the tallest buildings in the city:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/TollBrotherstowerlocation.jpg

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

--don

[TheOldMan]

great news for phoenix. that city desperatly needs taller buildings. lets hope it happens

[CHAPINM1]

Great new for Phoenix! This may be the beginning to a great thing for this city! For a skyline that needs dramatic improvements this will really help!!! Phoenix forumers please keep us updated!

[Stephenapolis]

It would be nice to see more height in the Phoenix skyline. Too bad the towers are ugly IMO.

[CGII]

It would be nice to see more height in the Phoenix skyline. Too bad the towers are ugly IMO.
That's what I think. Phoenix needs some verticality, but Jesus those are weird. Maybe just one of them.

[austin356]

I think a great part about this is that it is Toll Brothers who is building this. The exurban king is starting to build highrise condos? NiCe change.... Ryland homes is building a highrise in Midtown ATL..

I am glad to see these changes, maybe they will bring some fairly affordable housing in that young professionals can afford.

Has TB and the national builders, been doing these types of projects in the inner city lately; Am I a little late to see this?

[giovanni sasso]

austin, toll bros' first urban development is literally one block from my place and i'm looking at its sign out my window. i despise toll bros, but i appreciate that they're finally expanding their cash cow to develop in urban areas. to my knowledge, however, i don't believe they've ever done any major highrises like this. (the one near me is the development of mock-rowhome "luxury townhomes" on the site of the first US naval home.)

i think these phoenix towers are ugly, but then what has toll bros ever developed that looks stunning?

[smArTaLlone]

Wow Phoenix is finally getting some height! Very cool

[MustangV8power]

That's great

[plinko]

This is the strip mall site across from Honey Bear's BBQ right? Just north of the U-Haul HQ?

[bobdreamz]

good news for Phoenix but can you explain how the committee thinks 2 highrises are going to affect air quality?

[Don B.]

^ They're twats, that's how.

I don't know - perhaps they are linking increased traffic congestion with worse air quality?

Plinko, you are correct.

I'm not holding my breath on this. It will need a zoning variance and FAA approval, something not likely with our twitchy city council. I fully expect this project to get shaved considerably.

We can only hope it makes it through. At least there is a concrete proposal. At least somebody is thinking tall.

--don

[combusean]

Plinko it's behind that. It's a vacant lot now.

[Plasticman]

That's great news for Phoenix. A city that size should have some really talls. I'm not crazy about the design but compared to that ridiculous eyesore known as Museum Plaza planned for Louisville, those are nice buildings.

[Thefigman]

Phoenix could use the tall buildings, but this rendering looks too generic for me.

[pablosan]

This would be a huge boost to Phoenix's skyline.

[Dale]

I would imagine that that's a prelimenary rendering.

[James Bond Agent 007]

I'm impressed!

[Hoodrat]

They're hella cool. I'm jealous.

[PhillyRising]

austin, toll bros' first urban development is literally one block from my place and i'm looking at its sign out my window. i despise toll bros, but i appreciate that they're finally expanding their cash cow to develop in urban areas. to my knowledge, however, i don't believe they've ever done any major highrises like this. (the one near me is the development of mock-rowhome "luxury townhomes" on the site of the first US naval home.)

i think these phoenix towers are ugly, but then what has toll bros ever developed that looks stunning?

Nothing. They better hope these towers stay up.....because if they build these towers like they build their homes around here...they ain't gonna last too long.

[Wheelingman04]

Phoenix definately needs some tall towers.

[plinko]

Plinko it's behind that. It's a vacant lot now.

So not on Central...sucks...

At least if both were built they'd maybe hide the hideous monstrosity that is the Qwest Building...it may be the tallest building in Midtown, but it is decidedly blah.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/phx110.jpg

Here's my 20 minute hack Photoshop rendering of what they'd look like in the skyline:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/TOLL-CAMELBACK.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/TOLL-DT.jpg

[combusean]

The Qwest building isn't *that bad* The cap is nice and there's a pleasant relief in the facade--plus it's pretty damn big. Too bad they had to use that atrocious brown granite/black window zebra striping that is the hallmark of Southwestern Mediocre ...

Nice shots of mid/downtown plinko--tho I think on the 2nd picture you painted them a bit short.

I should have been more specific, right now there's a parking lot on Thomas but behind that is the vacant lot.

The 3.26 parcel takes up both and it's a pretty decent size plot of land, but for the kind of density they're asking for--230 du/acre--that's over twice the 95.8 du/acre that's currently allowable in the High Rise Incentive district.

Height is also limited to 250', so they've got a big double whammy on their hands that can fuel substantial neighborhood opposition even tho variances can be granted for both.

It's a good project for midtown by a reputable developer. I can't complain on the architecture either--the twin towers will clearly define the Midtown skyline for years.

[soleri]

I think the rendering is less a finished design than a massing concept. The attorney at the planning committee spoke of keeping the towers slim. I seriously doubt the City Council would block this project. It's TOD, after all, and even with increased vehicular traffic, this is half the point about building light rail. The attorney also said the FAA appeared to have no opinion here. Since this is nearly three miles from the flight paths at Sky Harbor, I can't imagine what concern they would have. Toll Brothers tried to get the owners of the strip mall on Central to sell or partner with them on this project, but they have a long-term ground lease, which they don't want to break. The NIMBYs on the planning committee raised all sorts of parochial objections to this project (shadows on houses a quarter mile away!) but their power is very, limited. I know a few of them and their primary concern appears to keeping central Phoenix safe for suburban lifestyles.

That said, this is a long shot. High-end luxury condos in central Phoenix are far from a sure thing, and there are upwards of 750 units here. 44 Monroe, for example, has sold less than 1/3 of their 202 units. The height is merely a provisional request - partly to keep ceiling heights flexible, and partly to increase the maxium zoning allowance. When the next real-estate cycle gains steam, this project will either have secured a place in line, or gone off to that great boneyard of Phoenix skyscraper dreams.

[combusean]

The NIMBY's you speak of are the same type that derided the Trump proposal and additional height in the biltmore for almost a year.

If Toll Brothers weren't serious on this project, I doubt they'd be going that high and dense. If the VPC shot it down but it went to City Council and was approved, we might have a repeat of the mess in 2005, but on a different level. Rather than expanding "core center gradients" and whatnot, we're building superintensive structures at densities traditionally located in the downtown area.

I think Midtown has an identity crisis. The surrounding areas could take advantage of the fact that Downtown is generally limited to ~500 ft and approve taller projects like these out the door, or Midtown can develop in the perptual shadow of downtown with the fairly arbitrary 250' height limit.

I'm waiting for the time the City ask itself if it's true to its word about urban development. I wish we could have an open discussion on this sort of thing rather than the haphazard bickering-with-lawyers that's hitherto dominated the discussion. I'm tired of seeing urban developers painted as the evil incarnate in almost every zoning battle.

How is the Coronado neighborhood for this sort of thing soleri?

[soleri]

^there was one citizen who asked to speak about this project - negatively, and for typically NIMBY reasons - and she was from Coronado. But there is not nearly the same kind of hostility to high rises in the adjoining neighborhoods (Willo, Coronado, Ashland Place, Alvarado, et al) as in the Camelback Corridor. I'm more sympathetic to the latter because they were promised certain guidelines by the city, which the city appeared to arbitrarily dump during Trump-a-palooza. The mid-city neigbhorhoods understand they live in a city (not all, for sure, but probably a majority) and high-rises have been a reality now for nearly 50 years. While traffic is a legitimate concern, they'll be the beneficiaries of light rail, too.

I'm not suggesting insincerity on the part of Toll Brothers. Clearly, they're developer heavyweights. But their entry into high-rise construction in this particular market is instructive. On the one hand, it's a testament to the general bullishness about Phoenix and the opportunities they see here. It's also a tentative step in a direction they can easily retreat from. The market is king here, and if TB sees other luxury projects selling out downtown, they'll be primed to make their move. If that evidence isn't forthcoming, they'll simply fold their hand. It's up to Phoenix, in other words, not Toll Brothers.

City officials want to see urban intensification in midtown, downtown, and by every light-rail stop. This is where Phoenix will grow in the future. The identity crisis you refer to is really the result of an incoherent strategy for growth. Phoenix can't be blamed for its addiction to horizontal growth given the cheapness of land, energy, and water. Those variables are rapidly changing for the worse, however. We're seeing a small but pronounced shift to urban infill projects as resources become more expensive.

As much as I want people to love cities, there's really no national mood or consensus for greater density. What can change, however, is the realization that commuting several hours a day is not a good idea if a gallon of gas is going to cost $5. In other words, people will come around. On the street where I live, a couple of Pet Smart executives recently bought a house. They moved in from Litchfield Park because of the commute. There are thousands of individual decisions like this which will transform Phoenix.

[innov8]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/Phoenix/TOLL-DT.jpg

Nice job plinko :tup:

I do hope something like these get built... I love the slimness of the towers
but they don't look vary attractive in the rendering above. I can't wait to
see some better renderings before i judge them.

[Pandemonious]

That looks like someone just photoshopped them in.. not an actual rendering

[Don B.]

^ That's exactly what is is. Plinko was kind enough to do that so we get some idea of how they will look in the skyline.

If I had one regret, I wish this proposal were further south, closer to downtown.

--don

[skylife]

The fact that they're twins makes a somewhat lackluster design work.

[combusean]

While traffic is a legitimate concern, they'll be the beneficiaries of light rail, too.

I have difficulties with people who use additional trafic as ammunition for shooting down projects like this. It's patently unfair to move to the center city--this thing is 3 blocks off Phoenix's main N/S drag--and still demand a leisurely suburban lifestyle with little traffic.

Yes, this is the thing we inadvertently asked for when we decided to tear up Central for light rail even tho TOD has more to say about setbacks and sidewalks than building height and intensity.

Whether or not this concept is fully understood by the masses in the adjoining neighborhoods will likely fuel many future zoning battles in this City, tho I suspect we're going to be dragged kicking and screaming into Real City tiers with this kind of development whether we like it or not.

[plinko]

On the street where I live, a couple of Pet Smart executives recently bought a house. They moved in from Litchfield Park because of the commute. There are thousands of individual decisions like this which will transform Phoenix.

Interesting...but if they are PetsMart execs don't they then commute OUT to I-17/Union Hills? ;)

[Spooky873]

good shit, Phoenix could use some highrises

[CHAPINM1]

Figured I'd give this one a nudge and see what the word was on this project. Coming upon the four month anniversery on the last time this thread was active. :haha:

[SFBoy]

Those are some ugly fuckin buildings.

[CHAPINM1]

I think the renderings make them look shitty. I'd put good money down that they'll probably get redesigned, like so many projects in Vegas are.

[sundevilgrad]

Have the pictures been taken off this thread? For some reason, they're not loading when I open it. Any new word on this?

[Atlas]

It looks like the pics aren't hosted anymore. Can the someone repost them please?:D

[PHX_PD]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/Phoenixguy88/TollBrothers.jpg

Has there been any updated info on these?

[CHAPINM1]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/Phoenixguy88/TollBrothers.jpg

Has there been any updated info on these?

I've been wondering that myself, this has been a dead thread for quite some time.

[PHX_PD]

I sent Toll Brothers an email asking them when the towers were expected to be built / when sales would start. Here's the response I got:

"Hello, Brian: thank you for your request for information. The Toll
Brothers condo project you refer to is not scheduled to start sales or
construction yet. We have a lot of preparatory work yet to be done. At
this time, there are no firm plans or dates in place. Please continue
to watch our website. As the project gets closer, we would put it up as
coming soon, we just don't know when that will be. I will keep your
e-mail address in our database for future updates on this project.
Thank you for your interest!"

[-GR2NY-]

oh wow, will they really be so thin? If so, I liiiiiiiiiiiike.

[kevininlb]

Wow, talking about bumping up a thread. I hate to say I don't think this is going to happen, but...drumroll...I don't think this is going to happen. I'm pretty sure Toll Bros. is getting the s*** kicked out of it right now, financially.

Personally, I'm hoping for something grand DT that may actually get built. So, rooting for CitySpace and the W.

[EmpireCityGuy]

oh wow, will they really be so thin? If so, I liiiiiiiiiiiike.

I agree-- The slender look is sexy.

[SLC Projects]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/Phoenixguy88/TollBrothers.jpg

Has there been any updated info on these?


Those towers will look great in the skyline. Looking good Phoenix. :tup:

[NorthScottsdale]

i hope these towers really do end up seeing the light of day! since we have such short height restrictions in the DT core (around 500 ft), we should start trying to fight for the huge beasts like these in midtown.

I highly doubt that this is what the buildings will look like, its probably just a very primitive rendering just to show the basic idea and height. i love the height tho!

[soleri]

You're right. The renderings are only meant to convey their massing, not their actual design.

If you want to spur this development on, there's only so much you can do. I'd recommend moving to central Phoenix since it's demand for city living that will eventually result in a vertical push. I'm sure north Scottsdale has its charms, which lie very close to the ground. If you love cities, however, you'll want to vote with your feet.

This project is probably dead but there are others (Cielo, CityScape, W Hotel condos, Copperpointe) which are still clinging to life. If you got some spare change, show Phoenix some love.

[BANKofMANHATTAN]

Enough with the twin towers. I sure hope the rendering was meant to show massing, because their flipping ugly. There being 2, isn't helping.

They should make one a slightly different size and design, but keep with whatever overall feel they're going for. I think that would give the impression of Phoenix getting 2 new towers as a complex instead of 2 of the same towers. As i said in the LA thread, a lot of twins/multiples lack indentity or are just simply mundane. I say this especially when their height is considered - being some of the tallest that Phoenix may have.

[phillyskyline]

It wouldnt be so bad if it was only 1 tower, couldn't they have a different desgn for the 2nd tower? It would add dimension to the Phoenix skyline!

[sad face]

:deadthread: :banaride: :old: I am out of here.:D

[James2390]

These have a lot of potential! Too bad the rendering isn't a little better.

[skellergroup]

:previous: Agreed. Very true.