[the urban politician]

One more question:

Is Aldermanic privilege an actual LAW, or is it just a practice by tradition?

[EarlyBuyer]

Photo's taken 12/1/07 by EarlyBuyer

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8522/dscn8677nm4.jpg


http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3362/dscn8680dn1.jpg


http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9489/dscn8686im1.jpg


http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/7018/dscn8689uk8.jpg


http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/8824/dscn8702wo4.jpg

[Mr Downtown]

Is Aldermanic privilege an actual LAW

Longstanding tradition. Much harder to change than a mere law.

[EarlyBuyer]

Photo's taken by EarlyBuyer 12/1/07

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8200/dscn8709in6.jpg


http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1174/dscn8714rs6.jpg

[SkokieSwift]

Art Institute Modern Wing - 11/23/07

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6601/ai1cy2.jpg

One Museum Park lurking in the background:

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/6339/ai2lc1.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1452/ai3tn3.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/4038/ai4sf9.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1249/ai5ba4.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5125/ai6ns7.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/370/ai7vf6.jpg

[SamInTheLoop]

I disagree. If those suburbs had an aldermanic system with wards, thereby diffusing responsibility among many and creating a disconnect between those responsible for revenue/budget-making and those responsible for development, then they would be just as NIMBY as Chicago. The development decisions in the suburbs are made by the same people responsible for the budget, and they know not to frivolously throw away development investment and its resultant tax revenue (property and/or sales). If anything, popular opinion in the burbs is even more anti-development than Chicago (at least in the established burbs), but their power structure is such that one right-headed individual can overcome mob mentality (Crystal Lake, for example). Such accountability and responsibility is so far removed from the individual aldermen in Chicago that they can get away with not giving two shits about the city as a whole and just focus on their vocal NIMBY constituents.

Of course, reforming the aldermanic system would require approval from exactly the people who would have their power reduced by such reform, so it'll never happen. That's why, grudgingly, we pro-development folk need to support the corruption-prone programs such as TIFs, the Planned Development process, and asset privatization, because they at least provide a little power (money, jobs) to City Hall to wield against the Aldermanic tyrants; while the Aldercreatures still have a hand in those programs, of course, City Hall does too, which on the margin could be at least a modest improvement over the status quo.


very insightful analysis, cogent argument...

[Jaroslaw]

<< Perhaps the city-suburb contrast you refer to is due to:

1. real authority accruing to officials in the suburbs who are actually elected after a trial by competitive contest. Someone like Daley, who is the American equivalent of a banana republic president, can only get authority by "acting tough," as with Meigs Field.

2. a difference in correlation between revenue and outlays. For many reasons, some self-caused, Chicago's officials are not in a position to translate increased revenues into electoral competitiveness with uncommitted, middle-ground voters.

Also to keep in mind:

3. Voters are not interested exclusively in enabling government to increase revenue. They are also interested in, for example, increasing the value of their property. How is increased supply going to affect that? To ignore this issue is to overlook one of the driving forces of real politics.

This Sam post about Fioretti belongs here rather than in the boom rundown.

...I truly believe they're both big-time panderers, who will overwhelmingly side with the NIMBYs on developments with modest opposition levels and above. I don't see either one as being leaders with ability to take postions on issues based on merit and benefit for the city. Rather I see them both pretty much as hand-counters...

This is what representative government is. It is not the responsibility of Fioretti or any other alderman to care for "the city" as a whole, to fight against "urban sprawl" or whatnot. Daley is for that. They are responsible to their voters, who have expressed a reasonable preference against a continuing and apparently unlimited supply of new housing in their area. It is also not Chicago's responsibility to take a hit for "smart growth" or for some concept of "vibrant" downtowns, or for urbanism. We've been there before, taking responsibility for a broader issue; the dozens of high-rise public housing blocks that were a result of that are now finally almost gone. Fioretti is a good alderman because he reflects the opinions of his voters, who have actually put their money down on condos in the city, expecting to compete with the suburbs as far as investment value goes. But their concerns are the least thing most forumers here care about.

In the long run more democracy will be good for the city. Where is the infrastructure that goes with more density? Where does the property tax money collected from all the new high-rises go? Why is it that some developers can get anything approved, and others can't ever get out the gate? Why won't the city play hardball with the suburbs cannibalizing business and competing on tax rates? And so on...

[firstcranialnerve]

A while back I commented that Chicago (probably because of the EL) lacks a decent underground city like Sydney, Montreal, Tokyo and others throughout the world, despite being so cold during the winter. I'm hoping with this Block 37 project, that Chicago begins to improve its underground spaces. Has anyone put together any plans for the development of Chicago's underground?

Secondly, there is a distinct lack of boutique retail in the Loop. I was wondering if Macy's (who I have heard are struggling) Marshall Field building could be converted to Spaces for a variety of stores. A mix of stores as part of network of smaller shopping malls and arcades are an integral part of growing the foot traffic through an underground city.

Has anyone else thought about this?

[Alliance]

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/1452/ai3tn3.jpg

now THAT'S glass.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ That's also reflecting the sky, not a lot to distort there. Look closer, where the trees and trucks are reflected, they are somewhat wavy as well. Its all in the reflectivity of the glass and the angle of viewing... Also, notice the fact that it is clearer like that of 600 fairbanks...

[Marcu]

...there is a distinct lack of boutique retail in the Loop. I was wondering if Macy's (who I have heard are struggling) Marshall Field building could be converted to Spaces for a variety of stores. A mix of stores as part of network of smaller shopping malls and arcades are an integral part of growing the foot traffic through an underground city.

Has anyone else thought about this?


The Carson Pirie Scott building is being redeveloped into more of a boutique retail mall.

[pottebaum]

^Any word on tenants?

[VivaLFuego]

A while back I commented that Chicago (probably because of the EL) lacks a decent underground city like Sydney, Montreal, Tokyo and others throughout the world, despite being so cold during the winter. I'm hoping with this Block 37 project, that Chicago begins to improve its underground spaces. Has anyone put together any plans for the development of Chicago's underground?

Secondly, there is a distinct lack of boutique retail in the Loop. I was wondering if Macy's (who I have heard are struggling) Marshall Field building could be converted to Spaces for a variety of stores. A mix of stores as part of network of smaller shopping malls and arcades are an integral part of growing the foot traffic through an underground city.

Has anyone else thought about this?

In the late 80s and early 90s, the Pedway was actually a pretty well-functioning system, even if it was a bit seedy in spots. I used it alot as I lived in Hyde Park and took the ME to downtown. It connected Randolph Station with the Cultural Center, Marshall Fields, Daley Plaza, City Hall, and Thompson Center, and it had several stores and had decent pedestrian traffic. The constant construction since then has basically destroyed it's usability.....CTA Station Mezanine construction, the Heritage, Block 37, to name a few. It's been closed in pieces for so long that most people's routines have simply readjusted to avoid it. But once everything is finished and open I suspect it will get decent usage, as it will connect several major transport routes (ME, SS, Red Line, Blue Line, and Clark/Lake) with several major activity generators in the government centers and the shopping at B37.

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ Personally I'd prefer to have people stay on the surface and deal with the weather. I like to see a busy street on a snowy day!

[Alliance]

^Any word on tenants?

No, they're still working on/just finishing hacking out the asbestos. My family is working on that aspect of the project. The inside of the building is a complete mess.

[Jaroslaw]

^That is great news all around. I hadn't even considered the possibility of Metra simply moving some of the yard facilities north a bit, but it could work (I never thought the idea of closing the yard completely made any sense, I mean it's a commuter railroad, you have to have an in-city yard to hold trains during the day).

Also, that is VERY soon for the SCAL to cease operations...is the flyover down at 79th already under construction, or will CN be re-routing the trains even further south than that?

I'd like to see those top three designs. Hope there's nothing too weird. Maybe now we can wish that they'll cover a portion of LSD as well, because otherwise it'll be hard to get to that section S of 12th.

Too bad no more Amtrak night train to New Orleans whizzing by Hyde Park at 8:20pm... now I guess we'll hear about extending the busway to the Museum of Science.

[Patel]

No, they're still working on/just finishing hacking out the asbestos. My family is working on that aspect of the project. The inside of the building is a complete mess.

What is the name of that company? I know people in the asbestos removal business.

[the urban politician]

now I guess we'll hear about extending the busway to the Museum of Science.

^ I would really love to hear that.

When my wife and her cousins came to Chicago about 7 years ago, they had to take the L (from their downtown hotel) to 55th street and then a bus just to get to the MS&I. What a hassle. Having more direct transit service there would be a huge boost to tourists' attendance, IMO.

Also, could such a route also serve as a direct non-stop connection between Hyde Park and downtown?

[2PRUROCKS!]

Speaking of the pedway, there is an article about it in the December issue of Chicago Magazine.

[Mr Downtown]

When my wife and her cousins came to Chicago about 7 years ago, they had to take the L (from their downtown hotel) to 55th street and then a bus just to get to the MS&I. What a hassle. Having more direct transit service there would be a huge boost to tourists' attendance, IMO.

Also, could such a route also serve as a direct non-stop connection between Hyde Park and downtown?

Let's see. The #10 Museum of Science and Industry bus picks up people along Michigan Avenue and State Street every half hour, then runs nonstop to the museum entrance. The #6 express bus picks up people along State Street, then runs express to 47th, making local stops for one mile before stopping at the museum. It runs every 5-8 minutes most of the day. The Metra Electric trains run three times an hour all day (more during rush hours) from 57th Street to two downtown terminals in 14 minutes.

And you feel the need for yet another way to get to MSI????

[BorisMolotov]

Yes, I see a need for at least one more new way to get to MS&I. Two classes (47 students) and 5 chaperones had to take a bus from suburban Bartlett all the way there - it took almost 2 hours. If we had taken the train - a little under an hour to Union Station. But then we would have no easy way to get there from the train station. Buses would be inadequate for this.

[Abner]

Yes, I see a need for at least one more new way to get to MS&I. Two classes (47 students) and 5 chaperones had to take a bus from suburban Bartlett all the way there - it took almost 2 hours. If we had taken the train - a little under an hour to Union Station. But then we would have no easy way to get there from the train station. Buses would be inadequate for this.

Blue line to Jackson, walk to State and catch the #6, #2, or #X28. The #2 exits LSD directly onto 57th in the morning so you don't even have to weave through Hyde Park. If they extended that route to run all day and weekends it would be a great way to get to MSI. Or, as already mentioned, the Metra Electric stops practically right there, at 57th St. There are much, much more desperate transit situations than the inability to get a 15-minute ride that drops you at the door of MSI in the middle of a Saturday. I would say there are much bigger priorities just in Hyde Park.

[Busy Bee]

Gray Line!

If the IC Electric stations in Chicago proper were part of the L system I can guarantee more people would use a train to get to MSI. Many [out of region] visitors to the city can navigate the CTA fine—the L at least—and feel comfortable doing so, but an out of system option like the Electric District may seem confusing and intimidating.

I was in Paris recently and their equivalent to an unlimited ride tourist pass gets you access to not only the Metro and surface buses but the regional (Île-de-France) RER commuter trains were also an easy option because the pass covered the entire regions system universally (inside I think zones 1-4). The same can not be said for the CTA and Metra. The lack of a universal fare card leaves many visitors never utilizing the Metra system, which is a real shame.

[the urban politician]

Let's see. The #10 Museum of Science and Industry bus picks up people along Michigan Avenue and State Street every half hour, then runs nonstop to the museum entrance. The #6 express bus picks up people along State Street, then runs express to 47th, making local stops for one mile before stopping at the museum. It runs every 5-8 minutes most of the day. The Metra Electric trains run three times an hour all day (more during rush hours) from 57th Street to two downtown terminals in 14 minutes.

And you feel the need for yet another way to get to MSI????

^ But wouldn't the extended busway have its own dedicated ROW?

[Mr Downtown]

^
a. Congestion is not generally a problem on South Lake Shore Drive.

b. Metra Electric already has its own right of way.

c. The McCormick Place Busway could be extended to 67th Street or so right now. The IC ROW once had 10 tracks. It currently has six and a maintenance road.

d. CTA buses are not allowed to use the McCormick Place Busway. Metra included that proviso when they leased the ROW.

[SkokieSwift]

Morton Grove - 11/27/07

New construction just east of the Morton Grove metra station. Includes townhomes and 7-story condo buildings:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/8063/mortongrove1yx0.jpg

Unfortunately all of the 7-story buildings along Lehigh look exactly the same, giving them a "public housing" look:

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8563/mortongrove2nz0.jpg

Inside the new "neighborhood":

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8065/mortongrove3op8.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/889/mortongrove4mj7.jpg

The 6-story condo building on the right is called Trafalgar Square:

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5618/mortongrove5xv3.jpg

Other developments just north of the metra station look more promising:

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5013/mortongrove6wy5.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6355/mortongrove7im0.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1008/mortongrove8dv8.jpg

Apparently the village has plans to make this area around the metra station into a downtown of sorts. You can read more about it here:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:5GZg8m6npAYJ:www.mortongroveil.org/UserFiles/File/tifmeeting_results706.pdf+morton+grove+metra+station+development&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

[the urban politician]

^
d. CTA buses are not allowed to use the McCormick Place Busway. Metra included that proviso when they leased the ROW.

^ That's unfortunate. If CTA buses could use the ROW, I could imagine it getting a lot of use from city dwellers or tourists who've already bought CTA cards.

This adversarial relationship between CTA and Metra makes absolutely no sense to me, especially in a time when Chicago area transit agencies need more than ever to join together and demonstrate their importance to the state. I can think of no better way to do that than by cooporating for everyone's benefit instead of their own.

Is there any chance that the RTA can push for some sort of compromise between Metra and CTA regarding usage of the McCormick Place Busway?

[SkokieSwift]

Skokie - 11/27/07

New 6-story condo building with ground floor retail (on the north side, which can't be seen from this photo) on Skokie Blvd. and Niles Center Road (3 blocks east of the Dempster Skokie Swift station):

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1017/skokie1rb1.jpg

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8662/skokie2pi0.jpg

New 7-story condo building with ground floor retail on Oakton St. and Niles Rd. in downtown Skokie (3 blocks west of the proposed Oakton Skokie Swift station):

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8089/skokie3ob3.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1593/skokie4rc9.jpg

New 6-story condo buildings where the Old Orchard movie theatre used to be:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7711/skokie5fl7.jpg

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3275/skokie6xb0.jpg

New 5-story condo building with ground floor retail on Skokie Blvd. just south of Main St. (a few blocks north of the proposed Oakton Skokie Swift station):

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7428/skokie7ea9.jpg

New 5-story condo building on Oakton St. 2 blocks east of the proposed Oakton Skokie Swift station:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1306/skokie8ci3.jpg

[the urban politician]

^ Thanks for the pics. TOD is always great to see.

My only pet peeve--and this one's a bit picky--why do they insist on landscaping in front of every new building? Bushes, shrubs, grass, etc etc. How about just having an entrance to a sidewalk, period? I mean, is it THAT important to for a pedestrian to walk past a bush as they're entering the dry cleaners shop?

[honte]

^ Why do they insist on hiring absolutely the WORST architects and producing the most absolute junk? I can honestly say, most of this stuff should never have been built. Sorry to be so negative, but really... where do these people go to school?

[Marcu]

^ That's too harsh. It fits in well with the existing "inner-suburb" look, especially the yellow undertones. I have to say it looks better in person too. A drastic improvement over anything built in the burbs from the 60s to early 90s.

Skokie definetly needs more density to help revive some of that Dempster Street, Oakton Street, and Skokie Blvd retail that started declining after the major Old Orchard reconstruction in the 90s. Maybe they can build another Pita Inn too.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/205/501401363_afa52b8f80.jpg?v=0 Courtesy "DK10" from Flickr.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ Why do they insist on hiring absolutely the WORST architects and producing the most absolute junk? I can honestly say, most of this stuff should never have been built. Sorry to be so negative, but really... where do these people go to school?


No doubt! I just scrolled (directly above) through a collection of the most hideous-looking schlockfest I've seen in some time. Non-stop POS.....are people up there that completely devoid of taste?!

[Busy Bee]

I too really enjoy when people post infill and TOD pics in this forum. I wish it happened all the time. Oh and by the way, Curbed Chicago is coming!

[Alliance]

^ Why do they insist on hiring absolutely the WORST architects and producing the most absolute junk? I can honestly say, most of this stuff should never have been built. Sorry to be so negative, but really... where do these people go to school?

I'm sure it looked great in sketchup :shrug:

:haha:

[trvlr70]

Robb Report has just started a new magazine called "Vertical Living". I just saw the premier issue. And naturally Chicago is the covergirl. The cover is actually the interior of a two-story condo in the Bristol looking east toward the Hancock and WTP. It is a gorgeous condo and view.

It is at Borders right now.

[brian_b]

Blue line to Jackson, walk to State and catch the #6, #2, or #X28. The #2 exits LSD directly onto 57th in the morning so you don't even have to weave through Hyde Park. If they extended that route to run all day and weekends it would be a great way to get to MSI. Or, as already mentioned, the Metra Electric stops practically right there, at 57th St. There are much, much more desperate transit situations than the inability to get a 15-minute ride that drops you at the door of MSI in the middle of a Saturday. I would say there are much bigger priorities just in Hyde Park.

Oh come on! You want a group of 52 people to take a combination of buses, trains and walking?!?

Public transportation can't and shouldn't be expected to serve every single possible need. If you have a group of 52 people, a chartered bus going straight there and back is probably the most efficient method of transportation!

Dedicated bus lanes would make the trip faster, obviously, but people have to start admitting that public transportation is not going to viable for every situation!

[brian_b]

Robb Report has just started a new magazine called "Vertical Living". I just saw the premier issue. And naturally Chicago is the covergirl. The cover is actually the interior of a two-story condo in the Bristol looking east toward the Hancock and WTP. It is a gorgeous condo and view.

It is at Borders right now.

I just checked out their website, which has a 26-page PDF. I hope that's not the real magazine - it's nothing more than advertisements mixed in with shill articles for condo buildings.

[spyguy]

Oh and by the way, Curbed Chicago is coming!

That's great news.

[ardecila]

Oh and by the way, Curbed Chicago is coming!

So, basically, it's YoChicago with better jokes and less misguided attitudes? I'm all for it.

[Abner]

Oh come on! You want a group of 52 people to take a combination of buses, trains and walking?!?

Public transportation can't and shouldn't be expected to serve every single possible need. If you have a group of 52 people, a chartered bus going straight there and back is probably the most efficient method of transportation!

Dedicated bus lanes would make the trip faster, obviously, but people have to start admitting that public transportation is not going to viable for every situation!

No, I agree that a huge group of students probably shouldn't take public transportation to MSI. I sure wouldn't be very happy if 52 people tried to get on my bus at the same time. I was responding to the claim that you somehow just "can't" get there in a reasonable way from Union Station. An individual would actually have a pretty easy time of that if they bothered to look up how to do it.

More importantly, though, I don't like the myopic tendency to see one's own commute as some great priority for fixing. As I said, the Museum of Science and Industry is actually much better-served by transit than other parts of Hyde Park--like, say, the University of Chicago--let alone other areas, or other routes, for which options are even more limited.

[SevenSevenThree]

Ive been wondering if/when this project would start construction. Im not expecting great architecture at all but Im praying that its not as bad as the Aldi's. Has anyone seen updated renderings? I really hope that this project is a success and somehow spurs development on this stretch of Broadway. The potential is there and so obvious.

Posted by spyguy on SSC

http://www.suntimes.com/business/682576,target120507.article

Uptown Target to start construction: developer

December 5, 2007
BY DAVID ROEDER

Construction on a Target store in Uptown will begin in January, the developer of the community’s Wilson Yard site said today.

Peter Holsten, president of Holsten Real Estate Development Corp., said the store should be open by October 2009. He said construction also will start in January on the site’s 178 apartments, which are scheduled to open by the end of 2009.

[honte]

Tomorrow, the Landmarks Commission will expand its pending designation of Neighborhood Bank buildings, to include the following:

South Side Trust Building, 4659 S. Cottage Grove Av. (aka Preckwinkle office / South Shore bank)
Fullerton State Bank Building, 1425 W. Fullerton Av. (aka that sweet little building on Fullerton - you know the one)
Belmont-Sheffield Trust and Savings Bank Building, 1001 W. Belmont Av. (aka Walgreens destroyed the lobby and the city is about 5 years too late, but oh well)

This brings the total structures in this designation to 16, capping a pretty good year for landmarking in Chicago.

[ardecila]

Waguespack backs grocery store
Bucktown development will include strip mall, bank

After months of deliberation and vetting the project with neighborhood groups, 32nd Ward Alderman Scott Waguespack has given the green light to a proposed grocery store, strip mall and drive-thru bank in Bucktown.

The 274,173-square-foot grocery store also will contain a self-storage facility and below-grade parking for 171 vehicles. A 27,524-square-foot strip mall will be located to the south of the grocery store, and a freestanding two-story building, housing a drive-thru bank and office space, will be located on the southernmost end of the site. An additional parking area outside the development brings the total parking spaces to 292.

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4915/3676adb7.jpg

This project is at Webster and Ashland on the site of Hayes Mechanical, which will move elsewhere in the city. 121 at-grade parking spots isn't great, but there's a greater percentage below grade, so I won't complain. The design seems pretty good, considering it comes from Antunovich. It's sort of Crate&Barrel-ish.

[the urban politician]

Tomorrow, the Landmarks Commission will expand its pending designation of Neighborhood Bank buildings, to include the following:

South Side Trust Building, 4659 S. Cottage Grove Av. (aka Preckwinkle office / South Shore bank)
Fullerton State Bank Building, 1425 W. Fullerton Av. (aka that sweet little building on Fullerton - you know the one)
Belmont-Sheffield Trust and Savings Bank Building, 1001 W. Belmont Av. (aka Walgreens destroyed the lobby and the city is about 5 years too late, but oh well)

This brings the total structures in this designation to 16, capping a pretty good year for landmarking in Chicago.

^ Eh? Where's the former MB Financial Bank building on west Madison? There were a lot of bank buildings proposed for landmark status, yet they are only designating 3?

[honte]

^ Hehe, no TUP, they are adding an additional 3 more. That's why I mentioned that the total is now at 16 banks overall. :)

Sometimes, rarely, when they do a city-wide designation like this, they actually get owners or aldermen calling to say, "Wait, you forgot 'such and such' building." This might have been the case here.

_____________________

The grocery store looks decent, but with too many blank walls. I am pleasantly surprised; I think it should do a lot for that area in general, which feels like it could use a shot in the arm.

Antunovich should take the entry tower and scale it up to about 20 stories, and then use that as the Flair apartment project. ;)

[VivaLFuego]

^ Why do they insist on hiring absolutely the WORST architects and producing the most absolute junk? I can honestly say, most of this stuff should never have been built. Sorry to be so negative, but really... where do these people go to school?

It's not particularly attractive, but I wonder how much is dictated by economics and poorly written zoning guidelines. I'm very pleased with the density however; both in terms of access to rapid transit, but also in reclaiming some of the inefficient land uses near the Old Orchard Mall.

On a slightly philosophical note, I'm reminded of the eternal question of whether "good design" is objective or subjective. I tend to naturally lean towards the former, but I find the concept of the latter very amusing, because I'm imagining honte jr (or even honte III) in the future trying to save these structures from the wrecking ball ;)

[VivaLFuego]

^ Hehe, no TUP, they are adding an additional 3 more. That's why I mentioned that the total is now at 16 banks overall. :)


Good news. I saw some of the west side banks last weekend and was blown away. The one on Laramie....one of the gems of the city, and few seem to even know it exists.

[the urban politician]

^ I just hope that future development around some of these landmarked banks in some less desirable neighborhoods isn't in the mutant-ugly strip form, which the city has (perhaps understandably) allowed in neighborhoods west of Western. There is nothing more gut-wrenching than a gorgeous prewar masterpiece across the street from a strip mall.

On two related notes, there is going to be a day long workshop of neighbors where future development on 53rd st in Hyde Park will be discussed on Saturday, Dec 8th. It sounds like there is a growing push for more density and TOD. You can find out more about the meeting at www.hpherald.com (go to page 2) for those who are interested in attending. Plus, in the wonderfully growing backlash against strip development:

12/5/2007 10:00:00 PM
Planning the Milwaukee corridor
Residents, businesses plan for future development

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER
Editor

A series of forums that aim to establish a plan for development on the Milwaukee Avenue commercial corridor in Logan Square was launched last week by 1st Ward Alderman Manny Flores.

Flores says the Milwaukee Avenue Master Plan, which covers the area between Western and California, will help steer development of the area moving into the future. He said the existing zoning along that section of street would allow for strip malls and other development that does not promote transit-oriented development.

"West of California on Milwaukee you have higher density zoning and everything east of Western has higher density zoning, but you have a segment of Milwaukee in-between that has an anomalous zoning classification given the type of corridor it is."

He said he moved to establish a task force to look at the corridor after his office was approached by developers about eight months to a year ago.

"I don't believe it makes sense to use a piecemeal approach in the development of this very important commercial corridor," Flores said. "We wanted to make sure the master plan would have as its underpinning the things that are most important to the community, like trying to figure out how to prioritize between affordable housing, density, less curb cuts, sustainable practices and green businesses."

(More at link):
http://chicagojournal.com/main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=55&ArticleID=3725&TM=41539.17

[honte]

Good news. I saw some of the west side banks last weekend and was blown away. The one on Laramie....one of the gems of the city, and few seem to even know it exists.

Which bank on Laramie are you referring to? This is the list of (soon-to-be) protected banks so far:

(Preliminary Landmark Recommendation approved September 6, 2007)
Hyde Park-Kenwood National Bank, 1525 E 53rd St.
Calumet National Bank Building, 9117 S. Commercial Av.
Stock Yards National Bank Building, 4150 S. Halsted St.
Marquette Park State Bank, 6314-20 S. Western Av.
Chicago City Bank and Trust Co., 815 W. 63rd St.
Mid-City Trust and Savings Bank Building, 2 S. Halsted St.
Pioneer Trust and Savings Bank, 4000 W. North Av.
Brundage Building, 3321-25 N. Lincoln Av.
Kimbell Trust and Savings Bank, 3600 W. Fullerton Av.
Swedish American State Bank, 5400 N. Clark St.
Cosmopolitan State Bank, 801 N. Clark St.
North Federal Savings and Loan, 100 W. North Av.
Sheridan Trust and Savings Bank Building, 4753 N. Broadway Av.

(Proposed Preliminary Landmark Recommendation)
South Side Trust Building, 4659 S. Cottage Grove Av.
Fullerton State Bank Building, 1425 W. Fullerton Av.
Belmont-Sheffield Trust and Savings Bank Building, 1001 W. Belmont Av.

[Mr Downtown]

Perhaps he meant the Laramie State Bank, which was landmarked in 1995:

http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Landmarks/images/landmarks/l/laramie1a.gif http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Landmarks/images/landmarks/l/laramie2.gif

[VivaLFuego]

Waguespack backs grocery store
Bucktown development will include strip mall, bank

After months of deliberation and vetting the project with neighborhood groups, 32nd Ward Alderman Scott Waguespack has given the green light to a proposed grocery store, strip mall and drive-thru bank in Bucktown.

The 274,173-square-foot grocery store also will contain a self-storage facility and below-grade parking for 171 vehicles. A 27,524-square-foot strip mall will be located to the south of the grocery store, and a freestanding two-story building, housing a drive-thru bank and office space, will be located on the southernmost end of the site. An additional parking area outside the development brings the total parking spaces to 292.

http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/4915/3676adb7.jpg

This project is at Webster and Ashland on the site of Hayes Mechanical, which will move elsewhere in the city. 121 at-grade parking spots isn't great, but there's a greater percentage below grade, so I won't complain. The design seems pretty good, considering it comes from Antunovich. It's sort of Crate&Barrel-ish.


Given it's location near the Clybourn Metra stop and being served by the 24-hour #9 Ashland bus, I would have much preferred a more ambitious mixed use development with a substantial residential component along with the retail and office. Another lost redevelopment opportunity.

[VivaLFuego]

Perhaps he meant the Laramie State Bank, which was landmarked in 1995:

http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Landmarks/images/landmarks/l/laramie1a.gif http://www.ci.chi.il.us/Landmarks/images/landmarks/l/laramie2.gif

A-ha, yes, my mistake. For some reason I thought this part of the new round of bank landmarkings. Although, Pioneer Trust at Pulaski/North is also fabulous, and being well used at the moment as Banco Popular (admittedly with some slightly gaudy signage, but I'll take it).

[wrabbit]

Good write-up in arcspace.com on Spertus:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/wjcordier/logobig.gif
Krueck + Sexton Architects
Spertus
Chicago, Illinois

By its transparency the facade announces the accessible and public nature of Spertus.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/wjcordier/1spertus-1.jpg

.....Like the surrounding buildings, many constructed in the period of tremendous architectural innovation that followed the Chicago fire, this building is forward-looking in its design and use of materials, while maintaining respect for its important setting.....

http://www.arcspace.com/architects/krueck_sexton/spertus/spertus.html

[modkris]

Great to finally see the interior of Spertus. The windows look as good as or maybe better from the inside. These guys need more projects here pronto!

[BVictor1]

Too bad the old Woodlawn Bank wasn't included as well. It's on the southwestern corner of 63rd and Cottage Grove. The lobby was destroyed many years ago I believe. It was a Walgreens. Maybe they just added a drop-ceiling, but probably not.

[aaron38]

My boss just sent out an email saying they're forecasting a half-inch of ice for tonight and tomorrow. Beware of falling ice if you're among tall buildings tomorrow.

[honte]

Too bad the old Woodlawn Bank wasn't included as well. It's on the southwestern corner of 63rd and Cottage Grove. The lobby was destroyed many years ago I believe. It was a Walgreens. Maybe they just added a drop-ceiling, but probably not.

The guy who did such an awesome rehab on the Ballroom at 64th / Cottage was trying to acquire this building, and I think he did get it. If so, we should be seeing a very good rehab of the building in the years to come. He is a good businessman and is committed to preservation.

[the urban politician]

How about that? One tiny "grassroots" group overturning the historically grassroots community organization that is graying at the temples and stubbornly holding a community back?

I don't know how much you guys pay attention to what's going on in Hyde Park, but most of you know that it's my old stomping grounds and I like to follow major developments there very closely.

What I am talking about is what I've watched happen there in the past few months. If you've been following the work of the Hyde Park Blogger, as well as reading the Hyde Park Herald (check out the recent updates of both, by the way, where they discuss last weekend's 53rd st development workshop), you'll see a great example of how a group of level headed individuals is changing the way locals view development in their neighborhood.

I am only being cautiously optimistic, here. Obviously there are still NIMBY's objecting to density along 53rd st without any basis. However, the benefits of density, the recent decline in HP's population, and the need to reverse this tide are being discussed more and more in HP's local press. This group of individuals (the bloggers) have started the conversation, brought themselves some attention, gone to meetings, and are beginning to sway people.

I say this because what is happening in Hyde Park may actually be a model for other neighborhoods whose growth is held hostage by a small group of NIMBY's. What we're seeing is that real efforts by even a small group of reasonable people can make a difference. I hope what is happening in HP encourages some people in other neighborhoods to do the same. Here's to being hopeful.. :cool:

[VivaLFuego]

There is sidewakl scaffolding up around the old Schulz Bakery building at Garfield and Wabash. This is a beautiful old factory building that was active until a few years ago baking Butternut bread. I hope this doesn't signify imminent demolition, but at the same time I can't think of a particularly economical reuse of the building.

[DHamp]

^I hope the same. I went to elementary school not far from there (Beasley) and I remember how great that place made the whole neighborhood smell. In the 90's, that was about the only good thing going on around there besides the school.

I think it could conceivably be renovated and converted to residential lofts. I've never been inside the place though, but I remember that it doesn't have the large sweeping windows like other loft conversions tend to have. However, I'd hate to see it go; it's a landmark.

[Patel]

Great one more nimby group pushed to the curb.




www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-helipaddec14,0,301280.story


City planners back plan for high-rise hospital with heliport

Plan panel OKs Streeterville plan

By Kristen Kridel

Tribune staff reporter

December 14, 2007

Despite vociferous complaints Thursday from neighbors questioning the safety of allowing helicopters to buzz downtown, the Chicago Plan Commission assented to Children's Memorial Hospital's plan to builda 22-story hospital crowned with a heliport in Streeterville.

A dozen commissioners favored the proposal, with only Chairman Linda Searl voting against it. And her concerns were about the hospital's design, not the heliport. Commissioners told concerned Streeterville residents they were not qualified to determine the hazards involved in operating a helicopter at the proposed site -- that issue is up to state transportation officials.

Plans for the $1 billion hospital, which would replace Children's aging Lincoln Park location in favor of a site at 215 E. Chicago Ave., still must clear the City Council's zoning panel as well as the full council.

...

[wrabbit]

Great one more nimby group pushed to the curb.




www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-helipaddec14,0,301280.story


City planners back plan for high-rise hospital with heliport

Plan panel OKs Streeterville plan

By Kristen Kridel

Tribune staff reporter

December 14, 2007

Despite vociferous complaints Thursday from neighbors questioning the safety of allowing helicopters to buzz downtown, the Chicago Plan Commission assented to Children's Memorial Hospital's plan to builda 22-story hospital crowned with a heliport in Streeterville.

A dozen commissioners favored the proposal, with only Chairman Linda Searl voting against it. And her concerns were about the hospital's design, not the heliport. Commissioners told concerned Streeterville residents they were not qualified to determine the hazards involved in operating a helicopter at the proposed site -- that issue is up to state transportation officials.

Plans for the $1 billion hospital, which would replace Children's aging Lincoln Park location in favor of a site at 215 E. Chicago Ave., still must clear the City Council's zoning panel as well as the full council.

...

Hooray! Not that the design is all that interesting, but I'm always happy when disingenuous arguments fall flat on their fat, entitled butts. As happened here with the Helipad brouhaha.

[alex1]

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r86/aaron38/misc/CrystalLake.jpg

Good form overall, with the right materials it could come out really nice, but with cheap stuff it wil be another Pomo trainwreck.

hate to be picky but this isn't pomo.

[honte]

Great one more nimby group pushed to the curb.




www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-helipaddec14,0,301280.story
A dozen commissioners favored the proposal, with only Chairman Linda Searl voting against it. And her concerns were about the hospital's design, not the heliport...

Ah, thank you Linda... someone who actually cares about trying to get good design.

[honte]

At last!! Here is a new project in Chicago that is honestly trying to push the boundaries by having a competition and hiring international design talent. The project is the new Weber academic center at Judson University, Elgin.

I don't know how this escaped me until now, but I am glad to see it! I am not certain I love the actual design, but who cares?

The architects were Short and Associates, London, and Elgin's Burnridge Cassell Associates as the architect of record. Short was hired due to his work in natural ventilation, which was used in this structure extensively. He is presently teaching at Cambridge, according to info I saw on-line.

_____________________________
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8907/judsonoa1.jpg

http://midwest.construction.com/features/archive/BestOf2007_7.asp

Harm A. Weber Academic Center
Award of Merit: Higher Education/Research

The 88,000-sq-ft Harm A. Weber Academic Center at Judson University in Elgin, Ill., houses the expanded Benjamin P. Browne Library and the Division of Art, Design and Architecture.

...

Seeking a facility worthy of an architecture program seeking accreditation, the university conducted a design competition, and British designer Alan Short was selected in part because his plans called for a natural-ventilation system.

[ardecila]

The development of Judson College has been really fascinating... only a few years ago, they were acting just like you would expect an average community college to.

Coinciding with a large movement among small-time colleges to become "universities" with reputations, Judson has selected to base much of their growth on an architecture program - highly unusual outside of state universities, expensive East Coast private schools, and high-end art schools, all of which have the resources to operate an architecture program.

The buildings that Judson has already constructed are quite nice, and they even somehow managed to turn an abandoned motor lodge into an attractive dorm tower, which gives them a visible presence off of I-90.



On a side note, I would cry if they tore down the Butternut Bread Bakery.... I used to drive past it everyday. Why is Butternut abandoning the space? Bread still needs to be baked.

[BVictor1]

hate to be picky but this isn't pomo.

What would you call it Romanesque/Romanesque Revival?

[Alliance]

hate to be picky but this isn't pomo.


:poke:

[SolarWind]

December 12, 2007

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/880/dscc0107li1.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7596/dsc0108su4.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1138/dsc0121uc9.jpg

[dropdeaded209]

thank you so much, solar! it looks fantastic and it's coming along so quickly, it seems.

[sentinel]

hate to be picky but this isn't pomo.

Whatever it is it's still shitty and belongs to 1910...in Nebraska.

[alex1]

Whatever it is it's still shitty and belongs to 1910...in Nebraska.

well yeah. i agree with everything you say up 'til the 1910...part.

this thing exists only to be as conservative and bland as humanly possible (to get village approval). There is a perception that this is what villages and people actually want.



in any regard, just because something is in a revival style doesn't make it poMo. PoMo's use of traditional elements were many times over the top and without functionality. Much of it was about freeing up the visual language and reinterpreting older forms. Therefore, there was an expanded amount of conceptualization and experimentation in form and language.

Since coming to Yale I have come to value poMo architecture immensely. Coincidentally I'm not crazy about poMo built structures, but i like the theory involved.

[alex1]

What would you call it Romanesque/Romanesque Revival?

yes. I think you nailed it.

[honte]

^ Nah, you can't call it that. We have real architecture that already goes under that moniker. Let's call is Post Architecture.

[Alliance]

^ Nah, you can't call it that. We have real architecture that already goes under that moniker. Let's call is Post Architecture.

Lets reserve that term from Dubai. At least that structure looks like someone designed it.

Speaking of POMO, what would everyone classify Pru2 as? It looks post-modern to me, just the good postmodernism that I associate with R.R Donnely (sorry, I like it) and not with 333 S. Wacker or 900 N. Michigan.

[aaron38]

This thing exists only to be as conservative and bland as humanly possible (to get village approval). There is a perception that this is what villages and people actually want.

Having been to many suburban planning commission meetings, it's not perception, that is what the suburbs want.
And in some ways it's a good thing. It's Crystal Lake, they're not going to get Calatrava.

[honte]

^ I disagree with this assessment. I do agree this is what the conservative suburbs want these days, but I don't think it's a good thing. One of the things I like about living here is that you can go out to many suburbs and still find work by the best architects who were working in the city.

[the urban politician]

I found this somewhat interesting, especially the parts in bold. It's too bad there isn't an L stop at Damen and Lake, which would make this a great example of TOD:

Westhaven Park heads toward its final phase
By Jeanette Almada | Special to the Tribune
December 16, 2007
The city has approved the last 203-unit phase for Westhaven Park on the Near West Side.

(Excerpt 1)

The Plan Commission in November approved that phase on 8.35 acres between Lake Street and Washington Boulevard and Wolcott and Damen Avenues.

(Excerpt 2)

A 10-story building at Lake Street and Damen will hold 80 of the last 111 for-sale units. Of those, 16 will be leased to public-housing residents and 64 sold at affordable and market rates.

(Excerpt 3)

The 10-story building and one of the apartments will contain ground-floor commercial space. . Another apartment building will include office and community space on Lake, Levavi said.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/news/chi-westhaven_ja_re_12-16dec16,0,7539123.story

[Jaroslaw]

This evening the HP co-op will announce that it's done. Timeline for the closing not clear yet... should reopen in a few weeks as a chain, though.

[the urban politician]

^ Can we redevelop that strip mall while we're at it?

And more south side news:

Retail rehab gets started on Cottage Grove
Pockets of success give hope to Bronzeville residents trying to restore commerce to once-bustling district
By Susan Chandler | Tribune staff reporter
December 17, 2007
It was the heart of Chicago's "Black Metropolis," a commercial swath of black-owned businesses that thrived on the South Side between World War I and World War II. To some, Cottage Grove Avenue's mix of black insurance brokers, butchers and shop owners represented a viable separatist model for black urban development.

Today, the Cottage Grove corridor looks like a war zone.

Yet optimists like Bernita Johnson-Gabriel envision Cottage Grove's string of decrepit board-ups and vacant lots being transformed into the next Andersonville, a walkable stretch of eclectic boutiques, shops and eateries that will draw shoppers and fun-seekers from around the city and suburbs.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-mon_baidu_1217dec17,0,3959783.story

[Abner]

It bothers me that the papers have been portraying the downfall of the Hyde Park Co-op as a result of an "outdated" coop structure. Never mind that what actually put it into the red was an idiotic expansion policy of the same sort that has caused many other businesses to fail in much less time. Too bad. Hyde Park needs a better grocery store than a Jewel or Dominick's.

[Jaroslaw]

-That strip mall is begging for redevelopment, as do the parking lots immediately N... perfect location for everything, TOD, LSD, lake views, good schools (if your kids can hack it)...

One of the new managers at the co-op said recently that growth has been flat for many years... but that if more shoppers came, they would have nowhere to park. Another reason for massive redevelopment here.

I remember that when the 47th street store opened, there was an enthusiastic article about it in the NYT, it was even posted on a wall in the 55th street store. The date was 20 October 1999:

A Suburbiascape Grows In Inner-City Chicago

By DIRK JOHNSON

"It is the familiar mallscape of suburbia, a big supermarket and a strip of gleaming shops behind a parking lot the size of a football field. But it is a stone's throw from a public housing tower.

This is 47th Street in the pockmarked North Kenwood section of Chicago, where the population has dwindled by two-thirds in the last 30 years, with whole blocks sitting vacant, rejected as untouchable by investors who saw more danger than hope.

Now investors see an urban Lazarus, a long-moribund neighborhood coming back to life, a striking example of how economic prosperity is changing the face of America. It is also a vivid illustration of how a City Hall, which in Chicago is the landlord for much of the cleared land, can transform a neighborhood by knocking down eyesores, readying parcels and recruiting developers..."

The rest is here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E0D71539F933A15753C1A96F958260

It's worth reading the whole thing; eight years ago seems quite far away now.

1. The article notes that the cost of the 47th street store was only $9.1 million. Couldn't the co-op get a loan and be its own developer? No, they go and sign a 25 year lease with no escape clause. How did this happen? I can't help thinking there was some kind of underhand dealing here, it'd be nice to see a scrappy SunTimes reporter sniff things out.

2. As the NYT article suggests, the 47th street store was as much a "mission," combined with urban renewal euphoria, as it was expansionism (as per the 53rd street store). Plus, as many people I know, I have always been put off by the union-security bred indifference to good service at the store. In short, a left-wing tendency to urban optimism and indulgence to unions contributed to the demise of the co-op.

[VivaLFuego]

It bothers me that the papers have been portraying the downfall of the Hyde Park Co-op as a result of an "outdated" coop structure. Never mind that what actually put it into the red was an idiotic expansion policy of the same sort that has caused many other businesses to fail in much less time. Too bad. Hyde Park needs a better grocery store than a Jewel or Dominick's.

What's wrong with a Jewel or Dominick's? I'm impressed with how nice the new stores are from either of these brands.

That said, you're right that the Co-op's failure is much more easily traceable to awful decades-long mismanagement: mismanagement not only of investment priorities (e.g. the expansions) but also of the basic day-to-day administrative needs (membership relations, modernizing cashier equipment, etc.). So no, the co-op structure alone is not what's responsible for this demise.

But, to some extent, the co-op structure is self-evidently outdated: it was created so that the neighborhood could pool purchasing power and thus reduce the prices paid for goods by buying in larger quantities. In an age of national and even global food trade, if anything the co-op structure has disadvantageously small purchasing power. The Co-Op, of course, teamed up with Certified Grocers to provide some goods, and thus had access to Certified's collective purchasing power for those goods. However, the Co-Ops already high prices all these years were further artificially lowered by general benevolence on the part of the University of Chicago and Certified, who repeatedly agreed to forgive debt, not enforce collection, etc; to recoup all costs the Co-op's prices would have had to be even higher. Partly due to mismanagement, but partly structural as well.

All in all, it's a positive step forward if the neighborhood can get a competent, market-priced supermarket (I'd prefer Dominick's to Treasure Island, but either would be fine), so retail dollars are no longer hemorrhaged to the South Loop as they have been the last several years.

[alex1]

^ Nah, you can't call it that. We have real architecture that already goes under that moniker. Let's call is Post Architecture.

pretty ironic post.

I do think that your term "post architecture" isn't all that bad (it can be assailed as a form of anti-architecture). Hegel touches upon these things in some of his writings (the death of art). The only problem with tagging the suburban structure with such a "style" would be that it's waaay too stupid to be considered in such an avant-guarde theory.

without making any value judgments, I think it's fair to say that this is architecture many or most of us on these forums do not like. Whatever style it might be.

[alex1]

What's wrong with a Jewel or Dominick's? I'm impressed with how nice the new stores are from either of these brands.


there's nothing inherently "wrong" with these stores. But what is nice about a co-op is that more $ stays within the community. Co-ops tend to have stronger ties with local distributors which tends to help local farmers. Not large factory farms.

also, co-ops don't necessarily have to be more expensive. The one I frequent here in New Haven tends to have better deals on many of the products I buy. The produce is also better.

I personally use both chain and co-op. Sometimes the co-op doesn't provide certain products my girlfriend and I need.

[SamInTheLoop]

Ah, thank you Linda... someone who actually cares about trying to get good design.


My reaction at first also. This will be one of those projects with a totally "design by committee" look to it - usually nothing ever good comes out of this approach - almost always nothing with lasting vision. However, upon thinking about Searl's vote further, would we really want Plan Commission members to vote 'no' on projects because they do not care for the design? I'm not sure that would be such a good thing. I'd venture to say the majority of the commission (and this will probably always be the case) don't know jack about architecture and design, and if such voting were to become routine (I actually doubt it will), it could come back to bite us in the butt, as you could get a collection of rubes who would vote no because they find certain designs are not conservative or traditional enough or do not "blend in enough with the building next door" or whatever...remember, the mob is fickle....

[honte]

^ Sam, I carried the conversation over to the State of Chicago Architecture thread. http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140434&page=14

[Abner]

there's nothing inherently "wrong" with these stores. But what is nice about a co-op is that more $ stays within the community. Co-ops tend to have stronger ties with local distributors which tends to help local farmers. Not large factory farms.

also, co-ops don't necessarily have to be more expensive. The one I frequent here in New Haven tends to have better deals on many of the products I buy. The produce is also better.

I personally use both chain and co-op. Sometimes the co-op doesn't provide certain products my girlfriend and I need.

This is right. I haven't been to any coop supermarkets besides Hyde Park and I could imagine that coops in that setting are at a disadvantage. But for natural foods stores and greengrocers, a coop structure can be very beneficial even on a large scale (see Rainbow Grocery in San Francisco).

[BVictor1]

http://www.suntimes.com/business/roeder/703323,CST-FIN-roeder19.article

Desolate strips to get a boost
REAL ESTATE | Coalition vows to spend $2 million to promote three areas

December 19, 2007

DAVID ROEDER droeder@suntimes.com


A coalition of heavy hitters in Chicago business and civic life has agreed to spend more than $2 million by 2009 to promote commercial investment along three desolate business strips in Chicago.

[migueltorres]

http://www.suntimes.com/business/roeder/703323,CST-FIN-roeder19.article

Desolate strips to get a boost
REAL ESTATE | Coalition vows to spend $2 million to promote three areas

December 19, 2007

DAVID ROEDER droeder@suntimes.com


A coalition of heavy hitters in Chicago business and civic life has agreed to spend more than $2 million by 2009 to promote commercial investment along three desolate business strips in Chicago.

this article sums up the news we've been hearing in tidbits so far. Pretty good for the south side.

Last but not least ... "Chicago Spire Breaks Ground."

Of course he had to stick it to the spire again :rolleyes:

[SolarWind]

December 19, 2007

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9706/dsc0023gf3.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1000/dsc0020xs6.jpg

^ Jewel across the street from Allure at K Station on the southwest corner of Desplaines & Kinzie

[spyguy]

http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=55&ArticleID=3793&TM=3960.384

City buys Sachs building for $4 mil
Planning department considers artist lofts, affordable units proposals

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER

The Department of Planning and Development will reveal in January its plans to develop the Morris B. Sachs Building, at 2800 N. Milwaukee, into mixed-use affordable housing.

The city purchased the art deco building for $4 million earlier this year and the department is currently reviewing two proposals. It's still uncertain whether the ground-level Payless Shoe Source outlet will be part of the new development
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4347/3793azh4.jpg

[BWChicago]

I certainly hope Payless isn't. It would be a lot of foot-dragging to get them to fix up the facade, and the building is quite clearly designed for retail on the first two floors. It would be difficult to make that second floor look right with Payless remaining there.

[alex1]

I certainly hope Payless isn't. It would be a lot of foot-dragging to get them to fix up the facade, and the building is quite clearly designed for retail on the first two floors. It would be difficult to make that second floor look right with Payless remaining there.

well yeah, Payless looks like shit the way they've inserted themselves into the environment but I find it interesting.

what exactly would make it "look right" in your opinion?

Anything but sterilized and cutesy design please.

[honte]

Payless is a notorious abuser of historic buildings. They love to rip off historic facades without any concern for the community, replacing them with their ugly-as-sin corporate image of brown seamed metal panels. This kind of corporate greed is usually the first step toward a historic building becoming a teardown candidate, as they have mutilated some of its nicer features. It takes a certain kind of vision to see / recall what it once was.

Nothing would make me happier than to see them kicked out of this historic building and for the storefronts to be accurately restored.

[alex1]

sure, they tore up that building to shreds. But then again, I have no desire for that layer of Chicago history to be erased completely. There's something to be said about environments that make us think as this one does. even if it might be negative.

and i wonder if Payless Shoes had such a negative impact on the environment Honte. could it have saved a structure from demolition from the simple idea that it kept revenue streams open for landlords? or do you really believe the opposite to be true? I also believe that we need to know what the perception of these buildings were in the 70's compared to now?

if i could point a finger on anything that destroyed perceptions of the city (and its older structures), it would be the steel bar locks that used to inflict almost every business in the city when I was a kid. local businesses were also just as likely to destroy a building's charm through a certain type of design vernacular that was just tasteless and cheap.

[honte]

and i wonder if Payless Shoes had such a negative impact on the environment Honte. could it have saved a structure from demolition from the simple idea that it kept revenue streams open for landlords? or do you really believe the opposite to be true? I also believe that we need to know what the perception of these buildings were in the 70's compared to now?

Well, yes, in 1970 things might have been different. And of course, there is a flip-side that they are one of the few tenants who will go into underserved communities and occupy urban storefronts. The question, however: Is the destruction a necessary evil?

I can't tell you what the Sachs building was like in 1970, but I can speak from personal experience. Payless continues this behavior now, even if it is unwarranted - in the name of corporate "image" and expediency. It might be possible to retrofit an existing storefront or to brand without mutilating things, but they choose not to.

Two recent examples come to mind, although there are countless others: Division / Milwaukee, and Chicago / Western. The building at Chicago / Western that they mutilated was a wonderful art deco corner building, almost entirely intact. Their behavior essentially ruined anything that was worth keeping; it was torn down this year.

You are correct that most any business has the potential and will to ruin old buildings. However, the large corporate chains tend to be the least flexible and most adamant that their corproate brand architecture be replicated. CVS, Walgreens, and Payless tend to be the worst offenders. Starbucks tends to be best corporate neighbor from an architectural preservation point of view.

[alex1]

Well, yes, in 1970 things might have been different. And of course, there is a flip-side that they are one of the few tenants who will go into underserved communities and occupy urban storefronts. The question, however: Is the destruction a necessary evil?

i understand what you're saying but I'm not one who's educated enough about the history of Payless shoes to say they're responsible for the "destruction" done on these properties. I agree that their branding isn't aesthetically pleasing but is the company really to blame for how these buildings currently look? Do the property owners shoulder some blame? did Payless buy these structures? Did the urban ills of the past 4-5 decades have an effect on these structures and the business practices of Payless (constant broken windows, theft that weakened the bottom line...)

It might be possible to retrofit an existing storefront or to brand without mutilating things, but they choose not to.

How do you feel about gutting out bottom floors for super-sized windows? isn't this a form of mutilating a structure? or is this type of work okay if the recontextualizing is to your liking?

The building at Chicago / Western that they mutilated was a wonderful art deco corner building, almost entirely intact. Their behavior essentially ruined anything that was worth keeping; it was torn down this year.

I'm skeptical that their branding and their branding alone destroyed the actual structure although I'm sure I might be wrong. if you have info on this, please pass along. I think from a grassroots preservation POV, this information is mighty important to pass along.

You are correct that most any business has the potential and will to ruin old buildings. However, the large corporate chains tend to be the least flexible and most adamant that their corproate brand architecture be replicated. CVS, Walgreens, and Payless tend to be the worst offenders. Starbucks tends to be best corporate neighbor from an architectural preservation point of view.

i would agree that corporate architecture is a huge problem. At least IMO. But consumers quickly discern certain iconic elements and structures. sadly, designers do not know how to control this type of architectural thinking in anything but an extremely dull and uninteresting way.

Starbucks was lucky to have lived in a time that the urban became cool and they've never lost sight of that model in their urban stores. Not to mention that their stores are smaller and that they can feasibly fit in old stand alone structure from the 1800's.

[alex1]

dp

[honte]

Don't mean to hijack this thread with Payless discussion.... but to answer your questions briefly.

Do the property owners shoulder some blame? did Payless buy these structures? Did the urban ills of the past 4-5 decades have an effect on these structures and the business practices of Payless (constant broken windows, theft that weakened the bottom line...)

Yes, the owners share some of the blame. Sure, the past has had some impact on Payless's willingness to improve their properties in a respectable manner, but if the times have changed, they need to be aware of this.



How do you feel about gutting out bottom floors for super-sized windows? isn't this a form of mutilating a structure? or is this type of work okay if the recontextualizing is to your liking?

It's not about my "liking", but about what is accurate for the structure and something that does not distract from its quality. In this case, the building is landmarked, so the reconstruction would be historically accurate (to the best of our ability with present-day materials). If there were big storefront windows originally, then that's what would go back in, by law. And since the City owns it, it would be done to a very high quality.


I'm skeptical that their branding and their branding alone destroyed the actual structure although I'm sure I might be wrong. if you have info on this, please pass along. I think from a grassroots preservation POV, this information is mighty important to pass along.

Well, strictly speaking, they did not destroy the structural integrity of the building, if that's what you mean. But I did watch this closely, and yes, they do absolutely destroy the facade underneath the signage. If there are any projecting elements, they are broken off. When they attach the heavy signage, they break large holes in the facade to allow their structural members to anchor to the main structure of the building.



sadly, designers do not know how to control this type of architectural thinking in anything but an extremely dull and uninteresting way.

I think the architects know how to do better. I think the corporate structure is unwilling to allow this, however.