CHICAGO | General Developments

[Busy Bee]

Wasn't this also the 'Conservatory Tower" site from a few years ago?

[spyguy]

Wasn't this also the 'Conservatory Tower" site from a few years ago?

Yes, same site, very similar design and also by SCB.

[BVictor1]

Yes, at around the time that Crain's article came out there was this proposal which would include Dream, another hotel, and residential. Not sure what the latest is however....
http://i62.tinypic.com/wvem8g.jpg
http://i61.tinypic.com/tapyjr.jpg

This is pretty nice looking. I don't remember ever seeing these renderings released. Hopefully there will be some resolution to the bickering and movement on this will be made. This looks to have been a good 900'.

[munchymunch]

The second one is from Casper's construction it was posted in November.

Edit: apparently they also have another dream hotel on there page...

[orulz]

Very cool post about recent doings at the Deep Tunnel, tour of the Thornton Quarry. The scale is seriously mind boggling.

http://gapersblock.com/mechanics/2015/06/21/touring-the-deep-tunnel-and-thornton-quarry/


Let's just hope that all this water flowing beneath Chicago in these tunnels doesn't someday result in massive sinkholes like what happened to Guatemala City a few years back.

[Busy Bee]

The deep tunnels are concrete lined, like a subway tunnel, so it's extremely unlikely it could ever cave in causing water flow from the top developing a sinkhole.

[SamInTheLoop]

Yes, same site, very similar design and also by SCB.


I think Dreams may have picked the wrong partners for its Chicago entry. My guess is that nothing will happen with this site (that old dumpy Garvey food court), until it is completely out of the hands of American Invesco - as well as any related entities - as well as any entities controlled by former American Invsco people..........their collective track record precedes them.....

[munchymunch]

It's not owned by invesco, it's owned by Bighorn. Bighorn is suing invesco(a excutive at investors; more specifically) because he didn't pay up rents.

[SamInTheLoop]

^ Look further into it. Bighorn is made up of whom? Who is Bighorn's partner? What are their connections to American Invsco? What's actually going on behind the scenes here? There's what's been reported, and what the actors purport, and then there is what's actually been happening.........they needn't be entirely - or at all - one and the same.......

[SamInTheLoop]

So did people read this article in Crain's this week?

One question I have is: Is the tension that preceded his departure (apparently caused by the asshat political hack previous head of the dept), and his actual 'retirement' a few months ago perhaps responsible - for what appears to me at least, as a casual - but educated long-time observer - for longer wait times/delays in building permits recently? Is there a backlog? Indecisiveness/lack of problem-solving etc with whoever(s) has attempted to fill Rahman's shoes? He was so highly regarded that dozens and dozens of developers, architects, contractors, etc, sent a letter to the city to get him back.........folks on the forum that have inside knowledge or interface with the dept of buildings, what say you? Anybody here know him personally?

Perhaps the saddest thing to me after reading the article is this: It's awfully scary that the dept is almost portrayed as hapless, inefficient, unprofessional, indecisive, inept, etc, etc, etc - without this one guy. That, if true, is really f'n scary.......or is he just such a unique talent there - someone who was so unusually able to cut through the bureaucracy and institutional/political inertia, and able to really get things done that he was an absolute rock star, etc??

Thoughts?

[sentinel]

So did people read this article in Crain's this week?

One question I have is: Is the tension that preceded his departure (apparently caused by the asshat political hack previous head of the dept), and his actual 'retirement' a few months ago perhaps responsible - for what appears to me at least, as a casual - but educated long-time observer - for longer wait times/delays in building permits recently? Is there a backlog? Indecisiveness/lack of problem-solving etc with whoever(s) has attempted to fill Rahman's shoes? He was so highly regarded that dozens and dozens of developers, architects, contractors, etc, sent a letter to the city to get him back.........folks on the forum that have inside knowledge or interface with the dept of buildings, what say you? Anybody here know him personally?

Perhaps the saddest thing to me after reading the article is this: It's awfully scary that the dept is almost portrayed as hapless, inefficient, unprofessional, indecisive, inept, etc, etc, etc - without this one guy. That, if true, is really f'n scary.......or is he just such a unique talent there - someone who was so unusually able to cut through the bureaucracy and institutional/political inertia, and able to really get things done that he was an absolute rock star, etc??

Thoughts?

My last experience with Asif was during permitting of MJ's Steakhouse, which wasn't huge but had some complex issues related to design concerns in a historic and landmarked interior - he was thoughtful, expeditious and highly professional. It's unfortunate that he is no longer there and sadly, you're mostly right about the building dept. It's a lot of everything you just mentioned, and more.

Although it doesn't relate to that particular dept, I have an anecdotal story told to me by a former acquaintance who worked in another City department a decade ago, involving heavy HEAVY drug use by a variety of employees in regular bacchanalian-type groups...and his implication being that it still goes on today. (Gross) food for thought and just one example of how awful a lot of City employees AND their leadership can be...

[emathias]

So did people read this article in Crain's this week?
...
Perhaps the saddest thing to me after reading the article is this: It's awfully scary that ...
Thoughts?

What's scariest to me is that someone can get full pension benefits at 55 and still go work full time. That's no dig against the man in the article - he's just playing the game available to him and no one should blame him for that - but as a matter of public policy it's one of many things that has contributed to this awful pension mess we're in. It's really, really offensive to me that public pensions for office workers would work that way.

[SamInTheLoop]

^^ Well, that's a downer..... ;)

^ No doubt there's some institutionalized perversity built-in there....

[SamInTheLoop]

Back to Roosevelt Collection... the Crains article on the sale (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20150617/CRED03/150619832/back-from-the-dead-roosevelt-collection-changing-hands) almost reads like a hagiography on McCaffery himself. It's true that he was able to squeeze some money out of the place by flipping it, but other than patience McCaffery didn't bring much else to the table worth that much lauding.

Simply flipping something for a nice profit might be worthy of praise in business circles, but I would be much more impressed if he'd demonstrated any care or pride in ownership or improvement to the location or community. Sterling Bay flips properties for huge profits left and right, but they do it by salvaging and restoring notable buildings and breathing new life into them and their environments by stuffing them full of young tech workers who will inject the area with new economic life. People don't commend SB for their timing like they do McCaffery in that article, they commend SB for their vision, and their stewardship over their properties, and how that translates into an uncanny ability to fill up practically-abandoned commercial space at top dollar.

McCaffery was able to lease up RC with stores that are already going out of business due to low traffic, and turned the obligation to build a public park into a land-sale rooftop-garden switcheroo without any care for design or benefit for the community. Shrewd businessmanship, sure, but not thoughtful stewardship.

Also, it's not totally clear exactly what the article is referring to when they say the land to the north was sold to Woods. It could be referring to the corner pocket along Wells that was slated for a highrise, but I think it means the stretch of land along Financial, south of Polk, which has been a sandbox lo these many years but was part of the RC package and was earmarked for future phases of residential. Having new hands on that strip of land could be interesting, as it's been a missing link in the effort to unify RC with the rest of the neighborhood to the north.


Just wanted to say that I thought this was an exceptionally on-point post. Not coincidentally, I agree with just about everything. :)

I am not referring to any specific knowledge regarding this article, or the author or subject matter/players involved when I state that it is not difficult to imagine scenarios where certain real estate players are leakers/info sources with at least the expectation, and perhaps sometimes the reality, that they receive favorable coverage, or at least coverage with a, shall we say, less critical eye.......

[wierdaaron]

I am not referring to any specific knowledge regarding this article, or the author or subject matter/players involved when I state that it is not difficult to imagine scenarios where certain real estate players are leakers/info sources with at least the expectation, and perhaps sometimes the reality, that they receive favorable coverage, or at least coverage with a, shall we say, less critical eye.......

Article author confirmed for McCaffery shill? Got it.

[the urban politician]

So did people read this article in Crain's this week?

One question I have is: Is the tension that preceded his departure (apparently caused by the asshat political hack previous head of the dept), and his actual 'retirement' a few months ago perhaps responsible - for what appears to me at least, as a casual - but educated long-time observer - for longer wait times/delays in building permits recently? Is there a backlog? Indecisiveness/lack of problem-solving etc with whoever(s) has attempted to fill Rahman's shoes? He was so highly regarded that dozens and dozens of developers, architects, contractors, etc, sent a letter to the city to get him back.........folks on the forum that have inside knowledge or interface with the dept of buildings, what say you? Anybody here know him personally?

Perhaps the saddest thing to me after reading the article is this: It's awfully scary that the dept is almost portrayed as hapless, inefficient, unprofessional, indecisive, inept, etc, etc, etc - without this one guy. That, if true, is really f'n scary.......or is he just such a unique talent there - someone who was so unusually able to cut through the bureaucracy and institutional/political inertia, and able to really get things done that he was an absolute rock star, etc??

Thoughts?

^ I can definitely confirm anecdotally that something has gone awry with the Dept of Buildings. They have always been slow with plan approval, but are even slower. But the biggest issue is inspections: they are really slow with responding to inspection requests. In fact, for one particular inspection (concrete) they never responded at all! We actually just kept on working and didn't even bother with the concrete inspection.

HVAC is also slow lately.

We've had issues with them claiming we don't have permits when we actually do.

The Dept of Buildings has really gotten worse. Don't get me wrong, I actually have disliked Government employee-run organizations for the better part of my life (don't get me started about the DMV, or Chicago's Water Dept), but Buildings is palpably more problematic--ask any contractor. I think they should outsource inspections to private firms that fulfill certain standards, and simply make people pay these companies for inspections, with options to expedite inspections for a slightly higher price. In turn, the Building Dept drastically lowers the price for permits.

Right now too few of Chicago's City Departments have any accountability or oversight, and that's the scary part when you are dealing with Government. They can do effectively whatever they want. It's a horrible system, and it's also costing taxpayers too much money to sustain.

[Via Chicago]

.

[LouisVanDerWright]

So did people read this article in Crain's this week?

One question I have is: Is the tension that preceded his departure (apparently caused by the asshat political hack previous head of the dept), and his actual 'retirement' a few months ago perhaps responsible - for what appears to me at least, as a casual - but educated long-time observer - for longer wait times/delays in building permits recently? Is there a backlog? Indecisiveness/lack of problem-solving etc with whoever(s) has attempted to fill Rahman's shoes? He was so highly regarded that dozens and dozens of developers, architects, contractors, etc, sent a letter to the city to get him back.........folks on the forum that have inside knowledge or interface with the dept of buildings, what say you? Anybody here know him personally?

Perhaps the saddest thing to me after reading the article is this: It's awfully scary that the dept is almost portrayed as hapless, inefficient, unprofessional, indecisive, inept, etc, etc, etc - without this one guy. That, if true, is really f'n scary.......or is he just such a unique talent there - someone who was so unusually able to cut through the bureaucracy and institutional/political inertia, and able to really get things done that he was an absolute rock star, etc??

Thoughts?

I'm tied up in permits that could have been resolved long ago by Asif. The entire process is fucked right now. I am trying to get a sit down with the department right now to resolve final permit issues on a project, something he would have handled. Was told a month plus ago that the next available date was mid-July. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm sitting on a loan that would infuse a big chunk of captial into a not so nice neighborhood and the asshats downtown are asking me to put a second stairwell to an unoccupied attic. That's the only thing holding this up. Absolutely incredible...

[LouisVanDerWright]

What's scariest to me is that someone can get full pension benefits at 55 and still go work full time. That's no dig against the man in the article - he's just playing the game available to him and no one should blame him for that - but as a matter of public policy it's one of many things that has contributed to this awful pension mess we're in. It's really, really offensive to me that public pensions for office workers would work that way.

Is this a surprise to you? This is true for the entire pension crew for the entire state of Illinois. This is why we are systematically going bankrupt. Yet this bullshit is constitutionally protected...

[marothisu]

I'm tied up in permits that could have been resolved long ago by Asif. The entire process is fucked right now. I am trying to get a sit down with the department right now to resolve final permit issues on a project, something he would have handled. Was told a month plus ago that the next available date was mid-July. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm sitting on a loan that would infuse a big chunk of captial into a not so nice neighborhood and the asshats downtown are asking me to put a second stairwell to an unoccupied attic. That's the only thing holding this up. Absolutely incredible...

That's fucked up. Which neighborhood btw?

[Loopy]

What's scariest to me is that someone can get full pension benefits at 55 and still go work full time. That's no dig against the man in the article - he's just playing the game available to him and no one should blame him for that - but as a matter of public policy it's one of many things that has contributed to this awful pension mess we're in. It's really, really offensive to me that public pensions for office workers would work that way.

I agree with you for the most part but one of the benefits of this system was that it produced many people like Asif who chose public service over the private sector because of the generous pension offered.

My wife works for the City in an interdepartmental function and brings home crazy stories about the usual fuck-ups you think about about when you think "City employee". But she is also amazed at the number of brilliant committed people who could have killed it in the private sector but enjoy what they do for the public and see their ultimate remuneration in their future pension rather than their current paycheck.

When the system is "reformed" these types will be no more. The City will be run strictly by people with mediocre skills for low pay and a 401K.

[LouisVanDerWright]

That's fucked up. Which neighborhood btw?

Somewhere on the SW side, don't want to be too specific.

[VKChaz]

But she is also amazed at the number of brilliant committed people who could have killed it in the private sector but enjoy what they do for the public and see their ultimate remuneration in their future pension rather than their current paycheck.

When the system is "reformed" these types will be no more. The City will be run strictly by people with mediocre skills for low pay and a 401K.

This is an important point. People focus on pensions, but they are part of an overall compensation package, and one which is designed to engender loyalty. If pensions are reduced, salary needs to compensate for that reduction. And even if it does, the private sector will always be able to offer more and cherry-pick the best people away. Pensions can help prevent some of that.

[marothisu]

Somewhere on the SW side, don't want to be too specific.

New construction or rehab type of stuff? I hope you get the permits soon.

[Ch.G, Ch.G]

So did people read this article in Crain's this week?

One question I have is: Is the tension that preceded his departure (apparently caused by the asshat political hack previous head of the dept), and his actual 'retirement' a few months ago perhaps responsible - for what appears to me at least, as a casual - but educated long-time observer - for longer wait times/delays in building permits recently? Is there a backlog? Indecisiveness/lack of problem-solving etc with whoever(s) has attempted to fill Rahman's shoes? He was so highly regarded that dozens and dozens of developers, architects, contractors, etc, sent a letter to the city to get him back.........folks on the forum that have inside knowledge or interface with the dept of buildings, what say you? Anybody here know him personally?

Perhaps the saddest thing to me after reading the article is this: It's awfully scary that the dept is almost portrayed as hapless, inefficient, unprofessional, indecisive, inept, etc, etc, etc - without this one guy. That, if true, is really f'n scary.......or is he just such a unique talent there - someone who was so unusually able to cut through the bureaucracy and institutional/political inertia, and able to really get things done that he was an absolute rock star, etc??

Thoughts?

My last experience with Asif was during permitting of MJ's Steakhouse, which wasn't huge but had some complex issues related to design concerns in a historic and landmarked interior - he was thoughtful, expeditious and highly professional. It's unfortunate that he is no longer there and sadly, you're mostly right about the building dept. It's a lot of everything you just mentioned, and more.

Although it doesn't relate to that particular dept, I have an anecdotal story told to me by a former acquaintance who worked in another City department a decade ago, involving heavy HEAVY drug use by a variety of employees in regular bacchanalian-type groups...and his implication being that it still goes on today. (Gross) food for thought and just one example of how awful a lot of City employees AND their leadership can be...

^ I can definitely confirm anecdotally that something has gone awry with the Dept of Buildings. They have always been slow with plan approval, but are even slower. But the biggest issue is inspections: they are really slow with responding to inspection requests. In fact, for one particular inspection (concrete) they never responded at all! We actually just kept on working and didn't even bother with the concrete inspection.

HVAC is also slow lately.

We've had issues with them claiming we don't have permits when we actually do.

The Dept of Buildings has really gotten worse. Don't get me wrong, I actually have disliked Government employee-run organizations for the better part of my life (don't get me started about the DMV, or Chicago's Water Dept), but Buildings is palpably more problematic--ask any contractor. I think they should outsource inspections to private firms that fulfill certain standards, and simply make people pay these companies for inspections, with options to expedite inspections for a slightly higher price. In turn, the Building Dept drastically lowers the price for permits.

Right now too few of Chicago's City Departments have any accountability or oversight, and that's the scary part when you are dealing with Government. They can do effectively whatever they want. It's a horrible system, and it's also costing taxpayers too much money to sustain.

I'm tied up in permits that could have been resolved long ago by Asif. The entire process is fucked right now. I am trying to get a sit down with the department right now to resolve final permit issues on a project, something he would have handled. Was told a month plus ago that the next available date was mid-July. Are you fucking kidding me? I'm sitting on a loan that would infuse a big chunk of captial into a not so nice neighborhood and the asshats downtown are asking me to put a second stairwell to an unoccupied attic. That's the only thing holding this up. Absolutely incredible...

I received an email with the Google Doc as architects were signing it in real time. (Technology is awesome.) I was about to add my name to the list when someone from, I believe, the Building Department sent out an email attempting to dispel what he or she claimed to be unfounded rumors. I'll fish for it later if you'd like.

To echo the above sentiments: the Building Department is a trainwreck. I haven't had to deal with it since Asif's departure, but, even during his tenure, it was just a fucking disaster. There's zero accountability. On one project, Zoning and Building kept bouncing me back to one another because both departments kept insisting the issue that had delayed our permit application was outside their purview. (I think Ed Doherty ultimately resolved it.) Not sure about you guys, but I had always been taught that, if you're unable to provide an answer for a client or customer, you help them navigate the system until you find someone who can. On the ninth floor, they're all too eager to abandon you to the convoluted bureaucracy the moment they perceive (accurately or not) that your request doesn't fall under their formal responsibilities. And they're super fucking obnoxious about it.

Communication is another issue. Listed phone numbers don't direct you to the right person let alone building. Sometimes they're not even listed at all. I was once instructed to contact Aprella Johnson (I believe that's her name?), but both the email and number I was given were incorrect. Trying to extract that information from the City's website was literally impossible. God, another time I was told to call one of the neighborhood permitting offices (instruction that was itself incorrect), and the woman who worked there kept me on the phone for fifteen minutes talking about Jesus. At least she, unlike many if not most of her colleagues, didn't have an attitude.

Amidst this chaos, Asif provided a refuge. He made himself very accessible and actually took the time to listen to your problems and devise a solution. I met with him twice about two different projects, and, on both occasions, he resolved in a matter of minutes that on which his colleagues refused to provide anything more than fleeting assistance (when they provided any at all, that is).

...to be fair, on one of those occasions he applied a very-- shall we say-- "liberal" interpretation of the municipal code, but the code, like most codes, is excessively, onerously regulative and deserves to be defied where it can. Well, under certain circumstances, anyway.

Asif also worked a ton, something highly unusual for the ninth floor with the exception of Ed. I'd get emails from him late at night and even on the weekends. To illustrate how exceptional this is: My coworker was trying to meet with someone in Zoning whose signature he needed for a plat consolidation. (Or something. I don't know. There were a million steps, and the inefficiency flew past frustrating straight into comical territory.) He went on a Friday and was there by 12:30 or 1:00, at which time he was curtly informed by the clerk at the front desk that the woman had decided to leave early that day and, what's more, that he should have known better than to have trekked to their office on a Friday before calling ahead. I shit you not.

So yeah. The Building and Zoning Departments suck except for a few bright spots. (Shout out to Thomas, the civil engineer who deals with curb cuts and the like.) Beyond suck, really. It's a travesty, and perfectly illustrates a prominent way in which government fails. (Not to say the purpose isn't necessary. Rather, the way in which it is achieved needs an overhaul. Or, at the very least, a customer service consultant.)

And if you really feel like testing the limits of your blood pressure, check out their salaries. They're all public. Again, with the exception of a few individuals who deserve that type of compensation, it's rage-inducing. :hell:

[emathias]

This is an important point. People focus on pensions, but they are part of an overall compensation package, and one which is designed to engender loyalty. If pensions are reduced, salary needs to compensate for that reduction. And even if it does, the private sector will always be able to offer more and cherry-pick the best people away. Pensions can help prevent some of that.

I'd argue that, overall, it has the opposite effect. For every Asif induced by the pension, there seem to be 10 other people who are incompetent and attracted to government service because they know they wouldn't last in the private sector and they still get a great pension. When you get enough of them, there is a tacit "get along to go along" attitude among the crowd that the less competent play because they're all so damn scared of losing their pension or having to actually hack it in the private sector. And once you have a core of incompetents, you can't attract skilled people because a) nobody but incompetents wants to work with incompetents, and b) nobody wants to be guilty by association.

[Ryanrule]

the thing is though, you see the EXACT same thing inside so many corporations. i do consulting, i see it all the time. any org of more than medium size collects deadweight.

its really a problem of management. the kind of people who seek to be in power are the type of people who should be kept furthest from it.

[XIII]

the thing is though, you see the EXACT same thing inside so many corporations. i do consulting, i see it all the time. any org of more than medium size collects deadweight.

its really a problem of management. the kind of people who seek to be in power are the type of people who should be kept furthest from it.

The numbers you read about in the papers for salaries and ineptitude of Government workers are plain laughable when you see how much worse it is in private industry.

The papers get worked up about a few million here or there in the public sector, but industry will scrap 10 times that much on a backward idea and then promote its creator (with a raise) just so he can't do more damage.

Just yesterday Coty, a beauty company, paid $1.8 million in severance pay to a CEO who decided, before he started, not to take the job. $1.8m for zero work. Who was the contract lawyer on that one? Where was the board? Did anyone get fired or demoted? My guess is there was no impact.

At least in the public sector, you have a few haphazard watchdogs. Industry has none.

[emathias]

...
At least in the public sector, you have a few haphazard watchdogs. Industry has none.

Industry has a lot, they're called the board and, beyond them, shareholders. And as wasteful as some companies may be, no one is forced to hand money to a wasteful company like we are to the government. It would be unreasonable to expect perfection from government or private industry, however the standard for being efficient should be higher for government. In some ways the government can be remarkably efficient, when it exerts the will to achieve that. It can achieve economies of scale private industry almost never can. But there is much room for improvement.

[LouisVanDerWright]

At least in the public sector, you have a few haphazard watchdogs. Industry has none.

This is the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. Private industry has all kinds of watch dogs from the Board to the shareholders to the IRS to the SEC to the customers themselves. On the public side for something like the Dept of Buildings you have next to no transparency and almost none of the voters ever interact with them. The only people who could hold them accountable (voters) almost never interact with DOB and, when they do, they are scared of pissing DOB off and being subjected to even more bullshit in retaliation.

Honestly, my architect is afraid to call them out on this bullshit because the scum of the earth bureaucrats will simply ice all of his projects if he makes their lives difficult.

Ok Rahm, time for you to show whether you are a real leader or not. The entire DOB needs to be laid off and re-apply for their jobs if they want them. I'd say only about 10% of that entire dept is competent or gets anything done. This is getting so bad that it is discouraging significant amounts of investment in the city. After I ran into this permit issue I killed two other projects I was going to start (i.e. dropped the contracts) because I didn't want to be stuck with interest and carrying costs waiting for some dumbass at city hall to get back to me with his mind numbingly stupid comments which don't even adhere to the building code to begin with. Honestly, half of my interactions with DOB employees is explaining to them the code which they are supposed to be enforcing.

[Near North Resident]

At least in the public sector, you have a few haphazard watchdogs. Industry has none.

:lmao:

[sentinel]

This is the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. Private industry has all kinds of watch dogs from the Board to the shareholders to the IRS to the SEC to the customers themselves. On the public side for something like the Dept of Buildings you have next to no transparency and almost none of the voters ever interact with them. The only people who could hold them accountable (voters) almost never interact with DOB and, when they do, they are scared of pissing DOB off and being subjected to even more bullshit in retaliation.

Honestly, my architect is afraid to call them out on this bullshit because the scum of the earth bureaucrats will simply ice all of his projects if he makes their lives difficult.

Ok Rahm, time for you to show whether you are a real leader or not. The entire DOB needs to be laid off and re-apply for their jobs if they want them. I'd say only about 10% of that entire dept is competent or gets anything done. This is getting so bad that it is discouraging significant amounts of investment in the city. After I ran into this permit issue I killed two other projects I was going to start (i.e. dropped the contracts) because I didn't want to be stuck with interest and carrying costs waiting for some dumbass at city hall to get back to me with his mind numbingly stupid comments which don't even adhere to the building code to begin with. Honestly, half of my interactions with DOB employees is explaining to them the code which they are supposed to be enforcing.

This. This. THIS. Good God, I can't tell you how chillingly familiar this is.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ This seems to be the universal reaction I get from everyone who regularly interacts with the DOB and it's a major problem. Like I said, I'd be doing several more projects right now if I weren't afraid that the city would jam me up and cause me to default on a construction loan. Their incompetence is holding back hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars of potential reinvestment, most of it in the neighborhoods that need it most. I can handle the risk of having to wait for the DOB to pull their head out of their ass when I have a project in Logan Square, I can't stomach that risk in Little Village or Bronzeville.

I've said it a million times before: If they could just streamline DOB and adopt the IBC, you would see a Denver-like housing boom across the city as all the properties that were too laden with red tape to be worth saving are gobbled up and rehabed overnight.

[the urban politician]

So why isn't the building industry being more vocal about this?

[k1052]

So why isn't the building industry being more vocal about this?

Well he did just replace Davis and sideline her to the PBC. I have no doubt pressure was being exerted, it just wasn't public.

[XIII]

:lmao:

You don't see screamer headlines in the Trib of WSJ about some middle manager making $250,000 a year. The public oversight of industry is VERY lax if not nonexistent.

I worded it probably too strongly, but if you think industry is any better than the public sector, you haven't worked in it enough.

And as wasteful as some companies may be, no one is forced to hand money to a wasteful company like we are to the government.

You're not forced to live and pay taxes anywhere.
Its no different than cable. If you want to live in Chicago and get cable, you pay Cook County and you pay Comcast.
Although, I'd prefer to deal with the government than Comcast.

[Ryanrule]

Industry has a lot, they're called the board and, beyond them, shareholders. And as wasteful as some companies may be, no one is forced to hand money to a wasteful company like we are to the government. It would be unreasonable to expect perfection from government or private industry, however the standard for being efficient should be higher for government. In some ways the government can be remarkably efficient, when it exerts the will to achieve that. It can achieve economies of scale private industry almost never can. But there is much room for improvement.

when board positions go to ceos, and ceos become board members, that system is broken.

[Busy Bee]

.
Although, I'd prefer to deal with the government than Comcast.

In complete agreement.

[Domer2019]

when board positions go to ceos, and ceos become board members, that system is broken.

Not unlike those in congress who waltz into a lobbying gig after the Hill.

[Near North Resident]

You don't see screamer headlines in the Trib of WSJ about some middle manager making $250,000 a year. The public oversight of industry is VERY lax if not nonexistent.

I worded it probably too strongly, but if you think industry is any better than the public sector, you haven't worked in it enough.



You're not forced to live and pay taxes anywhere.
Its no different than cable. If you want to live in Chicago and get cable, you pay Cook County and you pay Comcast.
Although, I'd prefer to deal with the government than Comcast.

Headlines mean nothing more than scaring or rabble rousing to get views or sell papers... what gets people riled up more than an overpaid scrub CEO?

IF you've ever had to deal with FINRA or the SEC or your own company's compliance department you would totally understand how ridiculous the oversight is in private industry... so much oversight that good honest folks are doing less business because they are spending time doing pointless crap because of one bad apple many moons ago. We have to waste time copying and keeping on file all of our outgoing mail for gods sakes! Ever had to deal with OSHA? lol

[LouisVanDerWright]

^^^ Also, the beauty of private industry is that companies can choose to pay whoever they want whatever they want. If they overpay and lose money, that's their problem and they will eventually be wiped out by someone smarter, nimbler, and less wasteful. If that happens in government you are fucked, there is no competing government that will come along and provide the necessary services if the current government is so grossly mismanaged that it goes under.

[marothisu]

It's not just that industry that you waste time with bullshit - it's like everything. In software development for example, people really pay attention to defects (i.e. bugs). So then when some person at the top, who was brought on to lead who has zero idea about this stuff, just looks at the numbers and gives you shit if you have too many defects recorded against you - you then become enamored with the process. You spend more time managing the defects to make the upper management see that it's not so bad than just fixing shit. And of course, time is money and too much of this just wastes tons of time and money. And it all started with some guy managing by a dashboard who doesn't understand anything, yet he's leading, so you waste hours just making your team look good for him instead of just...DOING THINGS.

If I had to estimate the amount of time and money I've wasted just because of that, I'd put it into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, very possibly in the millions, and probably a solid month's worth of work lost because of it.

[XIII]

If I had to estimate the amount of time and money I've wasted just because of that, I'd put it into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, very possibly in the millions, and probably a solid month's worth of work lost because of it.

This is my point. Millions of dollars of whose money lost?
If you're a stockholder, where the party who is supposed to represent your interests in this? The press doesn't care. The board doesn't care. The executives rarely care unless its tied to a metric in their pay package. There isn't someone you can go to as a common shareholder and raise any of these concerns.

If you're a consumer you get punished by higher prices (or an inefficiency tax, if you will). What is your recourse in that case? You have no representation, but in areas of limited choice, you directly pay for the consequences without having any say in the matter.

At least with public government, there are journalists, reformers and political interest groups who are occasionally interested in exposing some of these things and improving the system. That sort of interest is lacking in private industry.


And back to development news:

Zell is unloading the Illinois Center. Maybe now it can pick up a little more interaction with Wacker. The Michigan Ave plaza is also a huge opportunity for a gathering space.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20150624/CRED03/150629930/zell-reit-selling-illinois-center-for-375-million

[marothisu]

This is my point. Millions of dollars of whose money lost?
If you're a stockholder, where the party who is supposed to represent your interests in this? The press doesn't care. The board doesn't care. The executives rarely care unless its tied to a metric in their pay package. There isn't someone you can go to as a common shareholder and raise any of these concerns.

If you're a consumer you get punished by higher prices (or an inefficiency tax, if you will). What is your recourse in that case? You have no representation, but in areas of limited choice, you directly pay for the consequences without having any say in the matter.



It would depend on what impact those millions have. If they don't really affect the budget, then nobody outside of the management and team will even notice. If, however, because of the problems caused by management causes the project to go over budget by millions of dollars, it could lead to other consequences. I have direct knowledge of a company who lost (went over budget) HUNDREDS of millions of dollars because of stupid shit like this (amongst other things). You think nobody cared?

The point too to me is how much time and money is wasted on this stuff - it's more unsettling to me than anything. If your budget is $10M and you could have done it in $5M, but you spend all $10M, then fine. However, if your budget is $10M, and because of idiotic decisions that could have been avoided you end up spending $100M then it's a problem.

[Randomguy34]

Apparently while we were talking about the permit system in the city, Rahm has announced a reform in order to streamline the process.
Rahm Touts New Reforms Streamlining Permit Process
By Ted Cox | June 26, 2015
CITY HALL — Mayor Rahm Emanuel is touting new reforms that he says will streamline the sometimes unwieldy permit process.

Emanuel's administration announced new policies Friday, basically putting architects and designers in charge of compliance with city building regulations.

"This is an important step forward for our economy and for these industries," Emanuel said in a statement. "Anyone doing construction in Chicago obviously has to have a building permit, and by finding new ways to cut red tape around the building-permit process we can support our industry partners and strengthen economic development in Chicago."....

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150626/downtown/rahm-touts-new-reforms-streamlining-permit-process

I'm not too familiar with the current permit process. LVDW, marothisu, and other forumers, does this new system look like a step in the right direction?

[LouisVanDerWright]

This is my point. Millions of dollars of whose money lost?
If you're a stockholder, where the party who is supposed to represent your interests in this?

That's the beauty of private industry: you are the party who is supposed to represent your interests. Buyer beware. That's why some companies do well while others falter. Do you research and decide whether the operating margins are worth it compared to the competitors. That's why Amazon has taken over the retail industry while Sears has failed. You are not guaranteed anything except transparency when you buy a stock. There is no promise of growth or profit. That's why you usually make a return on your money (usually being the key word here) in the stock market, because you are taking a risk.

Government is totally different because it makes many promises and is expected to deliver on those promises.

[emathias]

This is my point. Millions of dollars of whose money lost?
If you're a stockholder, where the party who is supposed to represent your interests in this? The press doesn't care. The board doesn't care. The executives rarely care unless its tied to a metric in their pay package. There isn't someone you can go to as a common shareholder and raise any of these concerns.

If you're a consumer you get punished by higher prices (or an inefficiency tax, if you will). What is your recourse in that case? You have no representation, but in areas of limited choice, you directly pay for the consequences without having any say in the matter.

At least with public government, there are journalists, reformers and political interest groups who are occasionally interested in exposing some of these things and improving the system. That sort of interest is lacking in private industry.
...

As a common shareholder, you can attend all shareholder meetings and often speak. Owning shares in a companies doesn't guarantee that any other shareholder will agree with your perception of the state of things, though, and a public company is actually democratic since you get to vote on some things and if you can get enough other shareholders together you can force a vote on almost anything. There are a few exceptions, where the structure of the shares leaves power in the hands of founders, etc, but they are the exception.

As for journalists, why exactly do you think newspapers have a business section? Have you never seen investigative articles about businesses in Crain's or the Sun-Times or the Wall Street Journal or the New York Times or the Financial Times? I have. Even when they're not investigatory, business journalists compare the efficiency of companies frequently. That may not be an "expose," but it is part of how investors decide where to place their money and impacts companies. Government is a monopoly, but business is, mostly, Darwinistic democracy.

[Vlajos]

Apparently while we were talking about the permit system in the city, Rahm has announced a reform in order to streamline the process.

http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150626/downtown/rahm-touts-new-reforms-streamlining-permit-process

I'm not too familiar with the current permit process. LVDW, marothisu, and other forumers, does this new system look like a step in the right direction?

Sounds like big news, any thoughts from people who deal with the current process?

[streetline]

Moss design has put up some renders (http://moss-design.com/chicago-river-kayak-park/) for proposed changes referred to as The Naru Project for the section of the river east of Goose Island (http://thenaruproject.org/).

I have to say, I'm extremely interested in seeing the riverwalk connected and developed in that area, and I'm glad they're being ambitious about it... But I'm not wild about some specifics of their plans.

They seem to be narrowing the river a lot (just as the R2 renderings did); I don't see that appeal of that. The river is supposed to be the focus of the project, reducing it to a creek to fit in swimming pools and stages and wildlife preserves misses the point imho.

And while they call it a riverwalk, they don't seem to be paying any attention to where people could actually walk along the river. And speaking of walking, they not only aren't adding bridges, they seem to be removing them! (a significant difference from the R2 plan) Specifically the utility bridge at Evergreen, rather than being enhanced to support pedestrians, seems to have been torn out and blocked off by a theater. And they're blocking off any future bridges at Blackhawk and Weed as well with a swimming pool and an new kayak launch (I guess they don't want to use the existing dock a few feet north of there, as it seems to be gone or reduced?).

[VKChaz]

Government is totally different because it makes many promises and is expected to deliver on those promises.

Which is why I think the public sector is challenging. The private sector is measured by profitability, and there is an expectation and tolerance of some amount of risk-taking and failure. By contrast, on the public side, bureaucracy and process is used as a system of checks and balances to provide accountability (the not-for-profit sector can be similar) to the citizens.

Though I have not worked in the public sector, I can understand many of the challenges faced. Instead of profitability, the goal of the people working in a city’s administration is to protect the interests of the city and its people. That creates a heck of a lot of ambiguity. It may be impossible to know if decisions made are in a city’s best long-term interest (especially when that means 50+ years whereas in the private sector we concern ourselves with only the next several years or even quarters).

[spyguy]

Hartshorne's website was recently updated and they had a few images of current/dead proposals that we have never seen:

Lake and Aberdeen - 90 units
http://i60.tinypic.com/2vtrvjp.jpg

1201 N Clark - 98 units (anyone know what's happening with this one?)
http://i62.tinypic.com/14kjwqo.jpg

And finally the Hyatt House (which looks surprisingly nice) next to Trump, which Reilly killed
http://i61.tinypic.com/21erbpk.jpg

[pilsenarch]

^Yeah, bKL is working on a condo project for that site... I've seen it and it's a solid winner... appears to be also about the same height as the Hyatt proposal above...

[hawainpanda]

^Yeah, bKL is working on a condo project for that site... I've seen it and it's a solid winner... appears to be also about the same height as the Hyatt proposal above...

Seems sort of short for auch a nice location....would of expected at least a 400-500 foot tower

[J_M_Tungsten]

1201 N Clark when through a major transformation in design. I live in the area and only received notices for Tower of Jewel advancements. Not much for 1201.

[Busy Bee]

1201 looks really nice.

[ChiPsy]

1201 N Clark when through a major transformation in design. I live in the area and only received notices for Tower of Jewel advancements. Not much for 1201.

So do you think this render is post-design transformation or have you seen something newer/different?

[Rizzo]

IIRC people were supportive of the 1201 N clark project at the meeting over a year and half ago. Surprised this one hasn't moved forward. Design still looks the same.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Maybe not as drastic of a difference as I remembered.
http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/more/3320F9C4-6B52-435C-AD0A-B3ECE850D3E0.png.jpeg (http://s592.photobucket.com/user/JMTUNGSTEN/media/more/3320F9C4-6B52-435C-AD0A-B3ECE850D3E0.png.jpeg.html)
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/realestate/20140226/CRED03/140229848/fred-latsko-wants-to-build-98-apartments-in-the-gold-coast

[ithakas]

This might be totally off base, but what if developers could skirt minimal parking requirements by contributing to a transit development fund? Does some program like this exist?

[Skyguy_7]

Had a chance to enjoy the Riverwalk again over the weekend, and the thing just keeps getting better. They had several vendors offering facepainting, caricatures, balloon animals. It was a very European feel. There was live music and you couldn't find a seat at City Winery. There were boats docked, kayakers paddling by. It was incredibly lively. Was everyone aware the River Theater has a Water Taxi stop? I was not! This shot is from River Roast, a great new restaurant just east of LaSalle.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VcrEz-j5sAM/VZFPR52OgLI/AAAAAAAAClg/jhBS6H51Yn4/w998-h551-no/15%2B-%2B1

[LouisVanDerWright]

This might be totally off base, but what if developers could skirt minimal parking requirements by contributing to a transit development fund? Does some program like this exist?

A program like that doesn't exist, but the new TOD law now allows developers to build 1/2 of the previous minimum parking if they are within 600' to 1200' of a transit stop. It also allows them to cut their parking requirement to zero with a variance, though that still leaves the door open to NIMBY and aldermanic interference.

[ithakas]

A program like that doesn't exist, but the new TOD law now allows developers to build 1/2 of the previous minimum parking if they are within 600' to 1200' of a transit stop. It also allows them to cut their parking requirement to zero with a variance, though that still leaves the door open to NIMBY and aldermanic interference.

Yeah, I'm aware of the TOD law (which needs to be hugely expanded), but thought this could be an option for developers who want to take on the risk of finding transit-oriented tenants/buyers for the reduced cost of parking infrastructure beyond those boundaries.

[LouisVanDerWright]

Yeah, I'm aware of the TOD law (which needs to be hugely expanded), but thought this could be an option for developers who want to take on the risk of finding transit-oriented tenants/buyers for the reduced cost of parking infrastructure beyond those boundaries.

What would be nice is if the City passed an ordinance mandating that some portion of the affordable housing fund be used only to build affordable TOD projects next to train stations. This could be especially beneficial on the South Side and West Side where huge vacant parcels exist right next to train stations. Building TOD around these stations would not only be beneficial to the lower income residents who would live there (and likely cannot afford a car anyways), but could also spark redevelopment forces in these areas by creating new nodes of density at what were once the commercial centers of these neighborhoods.

[streetline]

Had a chance to enjoy the Riverwalk again over the weekend, and the thing just keeps getting better. They had several vendors offering facepainting, caricatures, balloon animals. It was a very European feel. There was live music and you couldn't find a seat at City Winery. There were boats docked, kayakers paddling by. It was incredibly lively. Was everyone aware the River Theater has a Water Taxi stop? I was not! ...
That's the new weekend location of the LaSalle stop, on weekdays it still uses the dock on the north side of the river in your photo.

[Mr Downtown]

Was everyone aware the River Theater has a Water Taxi stop?

Unless it's moved in the last week, the Water Taxi stop is on the north bank at Reid-Murdoch Center, so opposite the River Theater.

[PKDickman]

This could be especially beneficial on the South Side and West Side where huge vacant parcels exist right next to train stations. Building TOD around these stations would not only be beneficial to the lower income residents who would live there (and likely cannot afford a car anyways), but could also spark redevelopment forces in these areas by creating new nodes of density at what were once the commercial centers of these neighborhoods.

I think sparking development in those areas was part of the original plan when they wrote the TOD ordinance.

They gave a lot of freebies to BCMD-3 zones.

The places where these -3 zones are extant near to stations, are the wastelands along the Lake and Dan Ryan lines, out west, and the green line down to 63rd.

But instead of making these sites more profitable, it only spurred developers to get already profitable areas zoned up to -3.

[Randomguy34]

I think sparking development in those areas was part of the original plan when they wrote the TOD ordinance.

They gave a lot of freebies to BCMD-3 zones.

The places where these -3 zones are extant near to stations, are the wastelands along the Lake and Dan Ryan lines, out west, and the green line down to 63rd.

But instead of making these sites more profitable, it only spurred developers to get already profitable areas zoned up to -3.

The Englewood Square developments (Whole Foods at 63rd & Halsted) might be able to help spur other developments along the Green Line since developers may want to profit from the foot traffic the Whole Foods will bring (inspite of the parking lot that will exist there).

Speaking of which, they currently have the parking lot done for Englewood Square. :yuck:
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5283fdd9e4b0be2a7b4f1e09/t/557b3d84e4b00283cf1bdf5b/1434140037865/?format=750w
Construction Update June 12, 2015 (http://www.englewoodsquare.com/news/2015/6/12/progress)

Also in case anyone is curious, here's the layout of the site. Outlot B is already leased to another retailer
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5283fdd9e4b0be2a7b4f1e09/t/54c2b8f5e4b08b9c09277685/1422047488086/?format=750w
Leasing (http://www.englewoodsquare.com/leasing/)

[ChiTownWonder]

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/06/29/amtrak-planning-major-renovations-at-union-station/

A piece of Chicago history is on track for a makeover, as Amtrak has plans to restore iconic Union Station to its glory days.

I also heard something on the channel 9 news about a hotel:shrug:

[wierdaaron]

There's been plans to fix Union Station since 5 minutes after Union Station opened. Hard to take it seriously until some checks get written.

[KOgc]

I think that they are replacing the grand stair inside of the great hall. I believe travertine has already been secured in Italy.

[urbanpln]

What would be nice is if the City passed an ordinance mandating that some portion of the affordable housing fund be used only to build affordable TOD projects next to train stations. This could be especially beneficial on the South Side and West Side where huge vacant parcels exist right next to train stations. Building TOD around these stations would not only be beneficial to the lower income residents who would live there (and likely cannot afford a car anyways), but could also spark redevelopment forces in these areas by creating new nodes of density at what were once the commercial centers of these neighborhoods.

That is a great idea. The only problem is that some of the political leadership alone those transit routes (Green Line) want minimal lower income units.

[PKDickman]

Speaking of which, they currently have the parking lot done for Englewood Square. :yuck:
http://static1.squarespace.com/static/5283fdd9e4b0be2a7b4f1e09/t/557b3d84e4b00283cf1bdf5b/1434140037865/?format=750w


I love it. They built their parking lot first.

It's like the field of dreams.

[Ned.B]

There's been plans to fix Union Station since 5 minutes after Union Station opened. Hard to take it seriously until some checks get written.

Improvements have been happening bit by bit over the last 5 years. Historic elevators have been restored, air conditioning was added to the Great Hall, the Legacy Club opened in the old Men's Lounge and the barber shop space was restored. The stairs are definitely being replaced. You should see physical evidence of that work in 2 weeks.

Many other things are coming down the pipe line including reactivating all of the retail spaces facing Canal street; it will be interesting to see how and when they come to fruition. Key people at the station are definitely pushing for change.

[Busy Bee]

Few things get me more depressed than pondering 63/Halsted. If only we had a foreign army or natural disaster to explain it.

[Ned.B]

From Curbed: A proposed new facade and total renovation of 311 W. Monroe.

http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/311-New-Skin.jpg

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2015/06/29/redeveloped-office-tower-311-west-monroe.php

Architect is Goettsch Partners.


Previous design by JGMA (not sure if this was ever a real project or just a conceptual imaging/marketing assignment):

http://jgma.co/images/projects/311-west-monroe/01.jpg

[PKDickman]

Few things get me more depressed than pondering 63/Halsted. If only we had a foreign army or natural disaster to explain it.

It's not that hard to figure out.
Just a series of bad choices made by the free market.
Go to
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1938&zoom=19&lat=41.779872894622606&lon=-87.644784450531
Click your way up though the years and count the parking lots.
It starts as a full, dense, walkable neighborhood.

As their clientele starts to wane, the merchants build more parking to entice them back. Each time they add one, they are fewer places for locals to live in and they need more parking lots to get the ones that are farther away.

[sentinel]

From Curbed: A proposed new facade and total renovation of 311 W. Monroe.

http://chicago.curbed.com/uploads/311-New-Skin.jpg

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2015/06/29/redeveloped-office-tower-311-west-monroe.php

Architect is Goettsch Partners.


Previous design by JGMA (not sure if this was ever a real project or just a conceptual imaging/marketing assignment):

http://jgma.co/images/projects/311-west-monroe/01.jpg

It looks like the JGMA proposal just added colorful fins to the existing exterior, whereas the new design shows a new exterior facade replacing the existing one.

[Busy Bee]

It's not that hard to figure out.
Just a series of bad choices made by the free market.
Go to
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1938&zoom=19&lat=41.779872894622606&lon=-87.644784450531
Click your way up though the years and count the parking lots.
It starts as a full, dense, walkable neighborhood.

As their clientele starts to wane, the merchants build more parking to entice them back. Each time they add one, they are fewer places for locals to live in and they need more parking lots to get the ones that are farther away.

I get the whole physical expansion of car accommodation, but get real, there are a lot more socioeconomic factors that had a greater consequence than parking lots.

[BWChicago]

Not really free market. The city tried to make it a mall - ring road with big lots and buses driving through. Huge failure.

It's not that hard to figure out.
Just a series of bad choices made by the free market.
Go to
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1938&zoom=19&lat=41.779872894622606&lon=-87.644784450531
Click your way up though the years and count the parking lots.
It starts as a full, dense, walkable neighborhood.

As their clientele starts to wane, the merchants build more parking to entice them back. Each time they add one, they are fewer places for locals to live in and they need more parking lots to get the ones that are farther away.

[PKDickman]

Not really free market. The city tried to make it a mall - ring road with big lots and buses driving through. Huge failure.

That was much later, in the early 70s when the shopping district was all but dead.
In '42 when the plan commission started looking around for blight, that was all tagged as a conservation area, meaning that they liked what they saw and wanted to keep it.

By '73 the department of urban renewal decided it was blighted and sent the bulldozers.

Still believing in their Eisenhower era plans to save the city by suburbanizing it, that ring was supposed to surround a ginormous shopping mall with, of course, ample parking. But Sears and Wieboldts backed out.

[Kenmore]

I have been walking the river walk from michigan to lasalle lately and noticed tons of large channel catfish this morning. I have to imagine they recently stocked the area.

[VKChaz]

I have been walking the river walk from michigan to lasalle lately and noticed tons of large channel catfish this morning. I have to imagine they recently stocked the area.

Maybe they are the ones from a year ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oUAU5EBX-o

[Kenmore]

Maybe they are the ones from a year ago..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oUAU5EBX-o

It must have been a different species or a different group because these were already pretty large. The IDNR release said those were expected to take years to reach full size. Either way it was cool to see so many large fish so close to the river while being downtown early in the morning.

[MayorOfChicago]

I saw huge fish as well when I walked it last week!

[Via Chicago]

Improvements have been happening bit by bit over the last 5 years. Historic elevators have been restored, air conditioning was added to the Great Hall, the Legacy Club opened in the old Men's Lounge and the barber shop space was restored. The stairs are definitely being replaced. You should see physical evidence of that work in 2 weeks.

Many other things are coming down the pipe line including reactivating all of the retail spaces facing Canal street; it will be interesting to see how and when they come to fruition. Key people at the station are definitely pushing for change.

reactivating all the Great Hall spaces is really good to see, but fixing the platforms and the interior corridors needs to be priority #1.

[munchymunch]

You'd be surprised how many fish live in the river. However I've seen a a couple of rats in the river before too. :yuck:

[nomarandlee]

So with the 606, Riverwalk, Northerly Island, Maggie Daley Park, river flyover, and Navy Pier reconstruction all done or iin the midst of being done where do you hope to see the next big public space project in the city be realized? And which do you think is most likely to be set in motion?

Olive Park refurbishment? Kennedy green cap? Continued capping of Grant Park IC tracks? Dusablle Park? More rails to trails projects in the city?

[sage]

I know there's a couple potential rails-to-trails projects, in Englewood (A Bloomingdale Trail for Englewood? City Moves To Get Train Tracks for Park (http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140915/englewood/bloomingdale-trail-for-englewood-city-moves-get-train-tracks-for-park)) and on the northwest side (The Northwest Side Might be Getting Its Own 606 Trail (http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2015/05/19/the-northwest-side-might-be-getting-its-own-606.php)). Wondering when there'll be an update on the Englewood one, as that article is from last September.

[LouisVanDerWright]

I'd like to see Related push for the St. Charles Air line to be converted to a true high-line like space cutting through the South Loop now that they control the enormous Hudson Yards esque parcel that the SCAL passes through.

But this is Related Midwest we are talking about so that will never happen, we are probably in for Dearborn Station part deux.

[mark0]

I'd like to see Related push for the St. Charles Air line to be converted to a true high-line like space cutting through the South Loop now that they control the enormous Hudson Yards esque parcel that the SCAL passes through.

But this is Related Midwest we are talking about so that will never happen, we are probably in for Dearborn Station part deux.

Speaking of Related, any idea of what they have in store for Marshal Field Garden Apartments? It would be a shame and major missed opportunity for Chicago to fail at redeveloping that complex.

As for the St. Charles Air Line; Ive always thought what a great circle line that could be if it went west along 16th street viaduct via BNSF lines and connected to the north / south belt line west of western. The right of way is already there and hardly being used to capacity.

[Mr Downtown]

^I think you mean Dearborn Park part deux.

But just for fun, here's Dearborn Station part deux, as proposed in 1923:


http://i.imgur.com/FK4BQHo.jpg

[mark0]

That would have been amazing to have today

[wierdaaron]

Too dense! Not enough parking! My views!

Nice reminder though that Clark Street south of Roosevelt would be riverfront land today if they hadn't straightened out the kink in the river in 29.

http://i.imgur.com/Iie5dSp.jpg (http://imgur.com/Iie5dSp)

What's now the Rezko/Related lot is infill of a former riverbed.

[sentinel]

Ironic, considering that what was actually built at that location is some of the least dense development in the City...sadly.

[Busy Bee]

I'd like to see Related push for the St. Charles Air line to be converted to a true high-line like space cutting through the South Loop...

If a true midwest high speed rail program is ever to be a reality, at this point probably still a generation away before being politically tenable, the SCAL is absolutely integral in getting high speed trains from the IC row to Union Station or a HSR terminal in the vicinity.

So I vote for staying away from trying to parkify the St. Charles Air Line. You can't get that kind of infrastructure back.

[BVictor1]

^I think you mean Dearborn Park part deux.

But just for fun, here's Dearborn Station part deux, as proposed in 1923:


http://i.imgur.com/FK4BQHo.jpg

it's much better than the garbage there right now. This will certainly come in handy if anyone who currently lives in that area wants to complain about the proposed River South and or Related developments.

[jpIllInoIs]

If a true midwest high speed rail program is ever to be a reality, at this point probably still a generation away before being politically tenable, the SCAL is absolutely integral in getting high speed trains from the IC row to Union Station or a HSR terminal in the vicinity.

So I vote for staying away from trying to parkify the St. Charles Air Line. You can't get that kind of infrastructure back.

Agreed.. The southern entrance to Union Station is constricted by 2 track low level bridges over the south branch near canal. Any shipping/boating traffic has ROW and train traffic must be stopped while the bridge is raised. The goal of a higher level 3 track bridge is complicated by the Orange Line tracks on the south and the 18th street bridge on the north.

The SAL is no less complicated but at least has room to elevate over the RI tracks and Chicago river and descend into the Metra/Amtrak yards. With that scenario the southern River bridges could remain intact to handle local freight traffic.

[LouisVanDerWright]

^I think you mean Dearborn Park part deux.

But just for fun, here's Dearborn Station part deux, as proposed in 1923:


http://i.imgur.com/FK4BQHo.jpg

Yes I do mean Dearborn Park, I was actually trying to figure out in my head if it was park or station, but was in too much of a hurry to bother googling it. I'm glad I didn't because I've never seen that proposal you posted before. Reminds me of the LSE/Illinois Center predecessor. Very cool, I just hope we are closer to Dearborn Station than Park on the Related site.

[BrinChi]

Speaking of Related, any idea of what they have in store for Marshal Field Garden Apartments? It would be a shame and major missed opportunity for Chicago to fail at redeveloping that complex.

I heard from the leader of a community not-for-profit looking to lease space on the ground floor that Related is keeping the building as subsidized.

[Vlajos]

I heard from the leader of a community not-for-profit looking to lease space on the ground floor that Related is keeping the building as subsidized.

I think that's part of the deal. Related does a lot of affordable housing.