[spyguy]

The UIC masterplan meeting presentation is up:

http://www.uic.edu/master_plan/community_forums.htm

Too much to post, so I'll only include the somewhat interesting things.

East Campus space needs:

Advanced Chemical Technology Building
Laboratory Building
Classroom/Office/Lab Building [COL]
COL 1 - Classroom/Office/Lab space
COL 2 - Classroom/Office/Art Education space
COL 3 - Classroom/Office/Lab space
Art & Design Hall
Civic Building(s)
Institute for Urban Leadership
CUPPA Hall Replacement
College of Business Administration
Greenhouse (Plant Research Laboratory Replacement)
Undergraduate Student Housing 300
Future Student Housing 1500
Illinois Regional Archive Depository [IRAD]
Alumni Center
Hull House Museum
Campus Child Care Facility

West campus:

Advanced Pharmaceutical Research Pavilion
New Hospital [Hospital Expansion Phase 1]
Eye & Ear Institute
Pathology Center
Ambulatory Care 1
Future Hospital [Hospital Replacement Phase 2]
Teaching-Learning Center [TLC]
TLC 1A - AHS & SPHW Replacement
TLC 1B - Classroom/Office/Lab Space
TLC 2 - Research/Lab/Office
TLC 3 – Research/Lab/Office
Business Office Admin/AITS [Marshfield Bldg. Replacement]


In both campuses, they want to eliminate all surface parking. Halsted will be narrowed, Marshfield will be closed.

From the discussion summaries:
Q. The Pink Line runs through the West Side of campus. Was there any thought of utilizing the large amount of land under the tracks? There did not seem to be much emphasis on public transportation whereas vehicular parking was frequently mentioned.
A. The elevated trains pose significant vibration issues for the medical center that were felt to be too costly to overcome. If the power plant could be relocated, planting trees between the new hospital and the tracks would be visually advantageous to visitors to the West Side of campus as well as therapeutic to patients.
Another consultant is looking at how a mixed-use building at the train station might be incorporated into this plan. The CTA has also discussed having a station at Roosevelt Road due to the growth that is occurring along that corridor.

Q. Don’t minimize green space as you “densify” the campus. As a connector, Taylor Street could be the “New South Campus” with increased activities, commercial ventures, etc. in a very positive sense. BSB and UH may be the two most iconic of the Netsch buildings on campus. If that’s true and if Netsch’s legacy grows after his death, how would UIC be looked at in the years to come if it had demolished those iconic buildings?
A. Netsch’s brilliant overall campus concept is not being changed by any of the scenarios. His concept of a “drop of water” and its ripples will remain with smaller, single use classroom buildings at the core, bigger buildings further out, and parking at the perimeter. That would all stay. Taking down a few buildings, even BSB and UH, would not change that. BSB is an example of a Netsch “Field Theory” building, but so are the Art and Architecture Building and Science and Engineering South.

[ardecila]

Oh, good, so it's still Brinshore. I hope he succeeds this time!

[the urban politician]

In both campuses, they want to eliminate all surface parking.

:tup:

[the urban politician]

Just skimmed through UIC's master plan. Overall I like the concept of filling in a lot of the vacant spaces and putting more emphasis on pedestrian/bicycle circulation. Narrowing Halsted from Harrison to Roosevelt is a MUST, IMO. Right now it is an absolute auto sewer and kills any pedestrian viability.

I really hope they don't go overboard with the demolitions, though.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Ritz-Carlton

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/100_4723.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/100_4724.jpg

[george]

10-1

Old Colony restoration

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2962/oldcolony.jpg

[ardecila]

^It's gonna be difficult to clean the corner turrets. Maybe Cacciatore will go for a two-tone effect?

[BWChicago]

It really glistens. Incredibly light - couldn't be a greater contrast with its previous appearance.

[wrabbit]

^ Like a whole new building - and the new Pritzker Park is a great vantage point, both for Old Colony & for the Fisher Building.

-----

And now for something completely different:


Cityscapes
by Blair Kamin
October 05, 2009

Former Chicago Daily News Building getting a renovation; does this mean it has a future?

It's been nearly two years since Sam Zell, the Chicago real estate mogul and owner of Tribune Co., signaled that he might tear down the Art Deco masterpiece that was originally built as the Chicago Daily News Building and is now called Two North Riverside Plaza.

Last year, amid the credit crunch, Zell backed off from demolishing the riverfront office building, which is located at 400 W. Madison St.

Now, it looks like the building is being fixed up rather than torn down.....

.....The big question is what these changes mean: Has Zell shifted course or are these simply short-term fixes? If Zell no longer aims to tear down Two North Riverside Plaza, does he also plan to renovate the building's dirty exterior and its once-grand, now advertisement-marred concourse leading from the Ogilve Transportation Center to the Chicago River?

Read the entire entry at: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/theskyline/2009/10/former-chicago-daily-news-buidling-getting-a-renovation-does-this-mean-.html

[Tom In Chicago]

^Wondering if/when they'll ever replace the mural on the ceiling. . . not holding my breath. . .

[Hayward]

It's funny how I always thought the Colony Building's natural brick color was brown. Quite the difference a good scrubbing makes. As for the Ritz, they've been pushing dirt around for quite awhile now.

[wrabbit]

^Wondering if/when they'll ever replace the mural on the ceiling. . . not holding my breath. . .

Yeah, I was wondering that too, especially since Kamin has (rightly) made such a big stink about its disappearance in the past.....

[spyguy]

Chicago 2016: Olympic Village Development
Tuesday, October 13, 5:30 pm- 7:00 pm

Cassandra Francis, Director of Olympic Village Development for the 2016 Chicago Olympic Committee, will present the site selection and development process of the Olympic Village. Ms. Francis will show design and planning concepts reviewed by her committee to date and describe the process of selecting the team of developer, architects and planners. If Chicago is not selected to host the 2016 Games, Ms. Francis will discuss how the City will continue to develop the site.

This event is sponsored by Residential Design, Design, Regional & Urban Design KCs

Learning units: 1.5
Location: AIA Chicago
Member price: 0 Non-member price: 0
---

Besides the village, the other Olympics-related project I've been thinking about lately is Northerly Island. What's the plan for that now?

[aic4ever]

Chicago 2016: Olympic Village Development
Tuesday, October 13, 5:30 pm- 7:00 pm

Cassandra Francis, Director of Olympic Village Development for the 2016 Chicago Olympic Committee, will present the site selection and development process of the Olympic Village. Ms. Francis will show design and planning concepts reviewed by her committee to date and describe the process of selecting the team of developer, architects and planners. If Chicago is not selected to host the 2016 Games, Ms. Francis will discuss how the City will continue to develop the site.

This event is sponsored by Residential Design, Design, Regional & Urban Design KCs

Learning units: 1.5
Location: AIA Chicago
Member price: 0 Non-member price: 0
---

Besides the village, the other Olympics-related project I've been thinking about lately is Northerly Island. What's the plan for that now?

Wouldn't that be a great place for a casino? :haha:

[aic4ever]

It's funny how I always thought the Colony Building's natural brick color was brown. Quite the difference a good scrubbing makes. As for the Ritz, they've been pushing dirt around for quite awhile now.

Some phenomenal kinds of underground obstructions from what I understand.

[a chicago bearcat]

Some phenomenal kinds of underground obstructions from what I understand.

I hope all the obstructions are on the Farwell building site, this project was never worth the facadectomy of that building.

[Hayward]

^ Definitely agree with you on that.

[the urban politician]

I hope all the obstructions are on the Farwell building site, this project was never worth the facadectomy of that building.

^ Architecturally yes, but in an overall sense, I think it's worth it. And I know I"m of the minority opinion here.

The several dozen super wealthy people these condos will bring downtown, while probably a drop in the bucket at this point, only helps the downtown economy/culture/retail scene.

[Via Chicago]

Besides the village, the other Olympics-related project I've been thinking about lately is Northerly Island. What's the plan for that now?

I say keep it as is, seeing as how the whole reason Daley torn down Meigs in the first place was in the name of "parkland" (yea, I dont buy that explanation either, but it has turned into a nice little escape, and is pleasantly non-crowded). Turn the terminal into a nature center, landscape the area with native prairie grasses and make it into a bird sanctuary or something along those lines.

[spyguy]

revised Reva and David Logan center for performing arts at the University of Chicago

http://interactive.chicagobusiness.com/closer/constructionpipeline/private/

2009/10/05 University of Chicago - Center for Creative and Performing Arts 182,000-square-foot performing arts center, $46 million S Drexel Ave & E 60th St, Chicago, IL 60637, USA Cook

Here's Thom Mayne's losing design:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9472/ccpa01elevationnorthl.jpg
More here (http://morphopedia.com/projects/university-of-chicago-center-for-creativ) if you're interested

[ardecila]

I love Morphosis, and I wish they would build something in Chicago, but that design seems inappropriate for U of C's campus. The Tod Williams Billie Tsien design is much more reserved and formal.

[sentinel]

^^Agree 100% - thanks again spyguy, I randomly saw the Morphosis design images that you linked to a few days ago and I had the same thought - the new Cooper Union building in NYC by Morphosis is actually pretty nice, but given the context for this Performing Arts Center @ U of C, I'm glad Mayne's design didn't get past the conceptual level.

[Busy Bee]

I'm pretty thankful that Morphosis didn't make the cut, I'm not really a big fan of their brand of deconstructionism. With the exception of their civic building in San Francisco as few years back, I find most Morphosis buildings to be like tits on a bull.

[a chicago bearcat]

I'm pretty thankful that Morphosis didn't make the cut, I'm not really a big fan of their brand of deconstructionism. With the exception of their civic building in San Francisco as few years back, I find most Morphosis buildings to be like tits on a bull.

As I'm sure with my alma mater's recent climb up the BCS rankings it's becoming a bit more obvious, I went to the University of Cincinnati. And the Campus Recreation Center, while in some functional senses on the interior it falls short, the way it meets surrounding buildings, public spaces, and the stadium are a lesson in balancing many variables to pull a campus cohesively together.

Problem is, this project was stand alone, without the luxury of an entire block surrounded by continuous fabric (ala San Fran and CalTran), and IMHO Thom hasn't been too consistent in these types of projects. Still would love if he did something on UIC, because Brutal Deconstructivism sounds like a perfect reuse match.

[emathias]

http://interactive.chicagobusiness.com/closer/constructionpipeline/private/
...

There are some other interesting things in that list from an urban development standpoint.

Nice to see some density added to Bridgeport - although it really makes me sad that the CTA isn't making the Circle Line more circular and running it south of Archer along the river, as then it would serve these two (and potential other developments) quite well:
158-unit mixed-use development, $20 million
W 35th St & S Aberdeen St, Chicago, IL 60608, USA
and
The Lofts at Bridgeport Place (http://www.dubinresidential.com/site/epage/35607_482.htm)
190-unit artist live-work space, $10 million
1038 W 35th St, Chicago, IL 60609, USA

This is small, but looks like nice infill near the Kostner Pink Line station:
18th Place Mixed-Use Development
.4-acre mixed-use development, $5 million.
4315 W 18th Pl, Chicago, IL 60623, USA

What is this one?
Ontario Center Residences
77-unit residential development, $10 million
446 E Ontario St

[Nowhereman1280]

^^^ 446 E Ontario is the Onterie building, perhaps they are doing some kind of renovation or converting commercial space to apartments?

[Mr Downtown]

^ Architecturally yes, but in an overall sense, I think it's worth it. And I know I"m of the minority opinion here.

The several dozen super wealthy people these condos will bring downtown, while probably a drop in the bucket at this point, only helps the downtown economy/culture/retail scene.

That's a really odd argument. I don't think Ritz buyers are being attracted by its ugly shape or inefficient parking garage with the Farwell Building pasted on the front. If the Ritz, in it's current nasty form, had not been approved, those buyers could have helped the Waldorf Tower or the Spire get off the ground, and have helped shape a good cityscape as well as a good economy.

[Busy Bee]

^here here

[the urban politician]

That's a really odd argument. I don't think Ritz buyers are being attracted by its ugly shape or inefficient parking garage with the Farwell Building pasted on the front. If the Ritz, in it's current nasty form, had not been approved, those buyers could have helped the Waldorf Tower or the Spire get off the ground, and have helped shape a good cityscape as well as a good economy.

^ I don't buy for a second that the Ritz's lack of approval would have propelled the Spire or the Waldor-Astoria towards obtaining financing for construction. The Ritz is a much smaller project and it's right on the Mag Mile, unlike the other two.

If the Ritz had not been approved, I'm pretty sure none of the three would be getting built right now. Lets take what we can get.

[emathias]

...
Lets take what we can get.

Really? REALLY? You think Chicago should allow DESPERATION to mold our finest retail corridor?

Look at some of the buildings erected in other great cities on their primary retail boulevards, and then tell me that Chicago should allow mediocre architecture on North Michigan Avenue. The City could very easily have sent the message long before this was even a proposal that any new construction on Michigan Avenue:

1) Not require parking (there is no reason to require parking for land fronting Michigan Avenue, and many rational reasons to actually disallow it)

2) Be either very high grade traditional architecture using real stone OR be high quality, cutting-edge showcase architecture of any material as long as it melds well with the pedestrian environment.

The Ritz benefits from none of those, adds little to what makes Michigan Avenue attractive in the first place, and actually detracts from some of what makes Michigan Avenue such a great area. Michigan Avenue is large enough that the occasional misstep won't kill it. But if the City neglects to encourage development that builds on the greatness, and allows projects that actually detract from it, eventually Michigan Avenue will be an also-ran instead of a star. Nothing great comes of ambivalence.

[VivaLFuego]

tup, while I usually agree with the utilitarian/pragmatist approach that not all development will be Class A architecture and we shouldn't get apoplectic about the occasional parking podium here or banal painted concrete there, I have to side with the mob here: Ritz Residences is an inexcusable travesty in every regard given the location. Not only the poor-taste Lagrange schlock aesthetic (is Lagrange the Bob Fioretti of architects, or is Fioretti the Lucien Lagrange of Aldermen?), but even the basic form/program of the project should have been a non-starter.

It's not like the Near North market is suffering for more high value units. This project means potential future absorption of such high-end units will be that much slower. Maybe that doesn't mean the Spire getting built right now, but it does mean that down the road, there is that much more inventory to be absorbed before future projects can find enough buyers to proceed.

[the urban politician]

There's already plenty of crappy architecture on the Mag Mile.

I mean, the Mag Mile has a friggin Disney Store for crying out loud. LaGrange has already made his mark on the Mag Mile, and lets not forget some of those ugly department store boxes that already exist on the Boulevard.

The garage levels, if you all recall, don't even begin until the sixth level. Lets remember that. It's not like people will be looking up and seeing opaque windows directly above them.

Do I love this project? Of course not. I still think it's far inferior to what could have been built. But do I think that this project is a net positive compared to what was there before (a closed museum and the Farwell building, which will be brought back but with garage levels on top)? Yes, I do. Do I think the city should allow parking podia on the Mag Mile ever again? No.

[VivaLFuego]

Crain's reporting that Conlon proposes to convert the 11-story Plymouth Building, 417 S. Dearborn, into an 80-bed student housing project using historic preservation tax credits. No zoning action required for the project but there would be legislative action required for the tax credits. Sounds like a win-win project unless Bob ":brickwall:" Fioretti once again does his level best to achieve the worst possible outcome for taxpayers so that he might pander to a few crotchety NIMBYs that belong in Woodstock, IL anyway.

[ardecila]

Crain's reporting that Conlon proposes to convert the 11-story Plymouth Building, 417 S. Dearborn, into an 80-bed student housing project using historic preservation tax credits. No zoning action required for the project but there would be legislative action required for the tax credits. Sounds like a win-win project unless Bob ":brickwall:" Fioretti once again does his level best to achieve the worst possible outcome for taxpayers so that he might pander to a few crotchety NIMBYs that belong in Woodstock, IL anyway.

What's the win? Yet another developer decides to glom onto the student housing trend? I seriously doubt there is enough student demand to support dorms in the Plymouth Building AND the 3 proposals for Wabash. There's also the fact that many students may currently be choosing to get a traditional apartment in the South Loop, with a kitchen and a bathroom and such. Undoubtedly, some percentage of the apartments or condos being built in the South Loop are being occupied by students; increasing the supply of designated "student housing" just reduces the demand for apartment and condo projects.

In a more traditional university setting, there are definite trade-offs between on-campus and off-campus housing, so the two aren't substitute goods. But Columbia and Roosevelt are so integrated into the urban fabric that the differences are minimal, and increased student housing WILL cannibalize the residential demand.

Our typical argument here on these forums is that construction of any sort is good; even if developers overbuild, the cityscape improvements are worth the glut and the economic penalties that it creates, in terms of depreciation and the carrying costs to the developer of unsold units. I'm not sure that's the right mentality to have when growing a healthy city.

[VivaLFuego]

Let's see, it's only 80 beds (i.e. very small project relative to the others, so the burden to obtain financing is less than the big 3 proposals) in a presently vacant building that has historical merit but otherwise has floorplates too small for modern office use, and in which a proposed residential conversion languished before failing outright. I wouldn't mind if it were apartments or condos, but frankly when it comes to saving historic structures I think we should welcome any re-use that entails preservation. Plus this means a slightly elevated chance for more bad news college students to loiter and spread blight in the general vicinity of Dearborn Park at the sinful hour of 10pm. I stand by 'win-win'. I'd rather any reuse than a Farwellization.

[the urban politician]

I asked this at SSC but I thought I'd pick some brains over here:

Since WWII, has a pedestrian-oriented commercial/mixed use corridor been built out of scratch in Chicago, excluding downtown?

[VivaLFuego]

I asked this at SSC but I thought I'd pick some brains over here:

Since WWII, has a pedestrian-oriented commercial/mixed use corridor been built out of scratch in Chicago, excluding downtown?

What qualifies as "pedestrian-oriented" and what qualifies as "out of scratch"? I ask the former because there are probably some gray areas on the Northwest and Southwest sides and inner-ring suburbs that were farmland as of WWII and have since developed in an urban fashion albeit not with continuous streetwalls, with some visible accessory parking, etc.

I ask the latter because there are any number of stretches of arterials that, while predominantly planned and built in pre-War/streetcar Chicago, didn't not develop into vibrant pedestrian districts until recent decades.

[J_M_Tungsten]

error

[J_M_Tungsten]

Very large lot of buildings being torn down on 15th and Blue Island Ave. I think it has a lot of potential, and I hope they don't fill it in with the garbage homes they put just north of this lot. This is also happening on another large lot with similar style homes on Ashland and 15th. This is just the Frontage homes, it goes back quite a ways. So many possiblities...

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/4870e5b6.jpg

http://i592.photobucket.com/albums/tt1/JMTUNGSTEN/d341e782.jpg

[a chicago bearcat]

There's already plenty of crappy architecture on the Mag Mile.

I mean, the Mag Mile has a friggin Disney Store for crying out loud. LaGrange has already made his mark on the Mag Mile, and lets not forget some of those ugly department store boxes that already exist on the Boulevard.

The garage levels, if you all recall, don't even begin until the sixth level. Lets remember that. It's not like people will be looking up and seeing opaque windows directly above them.

Do I love this project? Of course not. I still think it's far inferior to what could have been built. But do I think that this project is a net positive compared to what was there before (a closed museum and the Farwell building, which will be brought back but with garage levels on top)? Yes, I do. Do I think the city should allow parking podia on the Mag Mile ever again? No.

it also would have been a net positive if they had only built on the footprint of a non-historic building.

but of course urban politicians caved, because after all, if we've already mucked up the mile, what's another thousand tons of sludge going to matter, no need to strive for something to fill that market segment, that doesn't compromise the integrity of an architectural city.

sorry for that last paragraph, but this argument was sounding too much like Cincinnati's acceptance of Queen City Plaza

[the urban politician]

What qualifies as "pedestrian-oriented" and what qualifies as "out of scratch"? I ask the former because there are probably some gray areas on the Northwest and Southwest sides and inner-ring suburbs that were farmland as of WWII and have since developed in an urban fashion albeit not with continuous streetwalls, with some visible accessory parking, etc.

I ask the latter because there are any number of stretches of arterials that, while predominantly planned and built in pre-War/streetcar Chicago, didn't not develop into vibrant pedestrian districts until recent decades.

^ I guess my problem is that I didn't see much of Chicago prior to the late 1990's. I don't know what a lot of the newer infill along commercial districts replaced. Were they replacing vacant lots, old gas stations, auto repair shops, etc (my hope) or were they pretty much just replacing historic buildings of close to the same size?

I ask this in part because it does not appear that Chicago was completely "filled in" by WW2. Videos posted on these forums of Chicago's neighborhoods in the 1940's do not show a complete city. You still see a lot of vacant land.

[ardecila]

Many of those lots either remained empty or were developed with low-intensity usage. Basically, look at parts of Western or Cicero. A good deal of vacant lots there in the 1940s, both because of leapfrog development and street widening. This later allowed for the proliferation of auto-oriented businesses without expensive demolition.

If you want an example of a mid-century urban shopping district, take a look at Halsted/63rd. Obviously, that was perhaps the city's most bustling center outside of downtown in the years before WWII. In the 60s, however, urban renewal led the city to build a ring road around the major intersection and then close Halsted and 63rd within the ring, turning the commercial district into a pedestrian mall. Several crumbling historic buildings were replaced with 1-story retail buildings, so there was significant new construction, I believe.

Basically, between WWII and the early 1990s, the trend for urban retail areas was to remodel them or build them anew with the trappings of suburban shopping centers - that is, pedestrian malls, benches, fountains, etc, and one-story, simple retail spaces. Since the 1990s, Chicagoland hasn't really seen the construction of any new main street areas (although the Glen might qualify) but rather the improvement and supplement of historic downtowns, almost always centered around Metra stations, and the city has seen infill that completes the fabric along historic shopping corridors as well.

I don't believe North/Clybourn was a retail area prior to the 1990s - the subway station there was meant to serve industrial workers. Recent development has been much more urban-friendly than earlier strip malls, and it is slowly developing into a pedestrian center. New City will cement that status as a bustling pedestrian hub, but there's already plenty of people walking around there.

[ardecila]

Very large lot of buildings being torn down on 15th and Blue Island Ave. I think it has a lot of potential, and I hope they don't fill it in with the garbage homes they put just north of this lot. This is also happening on another large lot with similar style homes on Ashland and 15th. This is just the Frontage homes, it goes back quite a ways. So many possiblities...

This is part of Roosevelt Square... should get developed with a retail building and more of those townhomes and a few elevator buildings. It's part of Phase 6, but Roosevelt Square is still selling stuff from Phase 2, so it'll be awhile before they build back here.

Across Blue Island, though, there's a 12-story building planned with retail and a new police station along the rail viaduct.

[the urban politician]

Many of those lots either remained empty or were developed with low-intensity usage. Basically, look at parts of Western or Cicero. A good deal of vacant lots there in the 1940s, both because of leapfrog development and street widening. This later allowed for the proliferation of auto-oriented businesses without expensive demolition.

If you want an example of a mid-century urban shopping district, take a look at Halsted/63rd. Obviously, that was perhaps the city's most bustling center outside of downtown in the years before WWII. In the 60s, however, urban renewal led the city to build a ring road around the major intersection and then close Halsted and 63rd within the ring, turning the commercial district into a pedestrian mall. Several crumbling historic buildings were replaced with 1-story retail buildings, so there was significant new construction, I believe.

Basically, between WWII and the early 1990s, the trend for urban retail areas was to remodel them or build them anew with the trappings of suburban shopping centers - that is, pedestrian malls, benches, fountains, etc, and one-story, simple retail spaces. Since the 1990s, Chicagoland hasn't really seen the construction of any new main street areas (although the Glen might qualify) but rather the improvement and supplement of historic downtowns, almost always centered around Metra stations, and the city has seen infill that completes the fabric along historic shopping corridors as well.

I don't believe North/Clybourn was a retail area prior to the 1990s - the subway station there was meant to serve industrial workers. Recent development has been much more urban-friendly than earlier strip malls, and it is slowly developing into a pedestrian center. New City will cement that status as a bustling pedestrian hub, but there's already plenty of people walking around there.

^ Thanks, Ardecila. This is something I have long been curious about when exploring the neighborhoods of Chicago.

[J_M_Tungsten]

This is part of Roosevelt Square... should get developed with a retail building and more of those townhomes and a few elevator buildings. It's part of Phase 6, but Roosevelt Square is still selling stuff from Phase 2, so it'll be awhile before they build back here.

Across Blue Island, though, there's a 12-story building planned with retail and a new police station along the rail viaduct.

NOOOOOOOO!!! Roosevelt Square!!! Its like putting perfume on shit! I thought the neighborhood might actually be making a turn around with something different and unique, wishful thinking as always. :( O well, thanks for the info though.

[the urban politician]

^ What's wrong with Roosevelt Square? I actually don't mind the CHA Replacement projects. The architecture might be somewhat mundane, but these projects restore the streetgrid and traditional urbanist neighborhood development, an improvement over the ghetto towers in a sea of dead space that they replace.

[ardecila]

NOOOOOOOO!!! Roosevelt Square!!! Its like putting perfume on shit! I thought the neighborhood might actually be making a turn around with something different and unique, wishful thinking as always. :( O well, thanks for the info though.

Didn't realize you had such strong negative feelings about Roosevelt Square. I hate to do this, but it's best that you know... ;)

Roosevelt Square Master Plan (Phases 1-6)
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3017/rooseveltsquare.jpg

[J_M_Tungsten]

I hate to do this, but it's best that you know... ;)
]

HAHAHA wow ok, thanks for showing me this, it answers a lot of questions I had. Well I don't actually "hate" the roosevelet square project, and I do appreciate what its doing for the street grids, but it just seems too over the top in its styling, something that you might find in new construction in Carol Stream or Elgin or something. I guess I just envisioned something more like a south loop style building influence to work its way westward. O well. Hey ardecila, do you have a bigger version of this?

[Busy Bee]

Would I like to see Roosevelt Square denser along artery streets and change its schlock styling to something more progressive and modern? Sure, absolutely. Do I want I wish nothing was happening and I could have the old hood back with the projects, the filth and the vacant lots? Nope.

[Hayward]

Well, there was that glorious old school that was demolished. I'd take that back.

[jstush04]

roosevelt square used to be my free parking lot. I remember skipping a class (that I rushed through traffic to get to in time) because it was so interesting watching that school come down. It's a good thing they brought the building down right before the collapse :(

[Chicago Shawn]

^What pisses me off about the demolition of Riss School, is that Roosevelt Square's plan has a park as a replacement? How back-ass words is that? They are in process of creating 62 acres of open space through the demolition of ABLA, with some of the space containing large mature trees that had been in the courtyards of the former public housing complex. Some of that space would have made an even better park. The people who drafted the 'master plan' truley had a brain fart moment here. That school would have made a great loft conversion, and would have been a unique addition to the blandola that is Roosevelt Square.

My other major critism is that the setbacks and lack of retial along Roosevelt has cemented the future of Rooevelt Road becoming a true auto sewer from the Canal Street all the way to Damen.

On the building design, I'll say its better then what we build in suburbia. Solid masonry construction and some proivison of mixed use on Taylor, and aligned to the street grid. But the compliments will stop there.

[jstush04]

yup yup. the stuff doesn't impress me, and I don't like how the buildings all meet taylor either. Taylor is great from Morgan to Racine, and from Loomis to Ashland (and then west of medical center), but the part that touches roosevelt square stuff is... well it's just boring. no retail. i mean, they're not done, sure, but i don't think things are heading in the right direction either.

roosevelt seems like it's too late to care about

[J_M_Tungsten]

That's the feeling I'm getting too. I think that even more bar style restaurants would do well on Taylor and Roosevelt. There are many homes but everyone has to drive or take a bus to go somewhere fun or to go get something good to eat. Why don't they just build it in the neighborhood. That is one of my major issues with Roosevelt square, limited retail and restaurants. It's almost like they're creating a suburban type atmosphere in the city? I don't get it. This is the perfect time for this whole project to be re-evaluated, but we all know that wont happen.

[VivaLFuego]

yup yup. the stuff doesn't impress me, and I don't like how the buildings all meet taylor either. Taylor is great from Morgan to Racine, and from Loomis to Ashland (and then west of medical center), but the part that touches roosevelt square stuff is... well it's just boring. no retail. i mean, they're not done, sure, but i don't think things are heading in the right direction either.

roosevelt seems like it's too late to care about

Hmm, do you remember what Taylor looked like between Racine and Loomis 6-7 years ago? :jester:

[the urban politician]

That's the feeling I'm getting too. I think that even more bar style restaurants would do well on Taylor and Roosevelt. There are many homes but everyone has to drive or take a bus to go somewhere fun or to go get something good to eat. Why don't they just build it in the neighborhood. That is one of my major issues with Roosevelt square, limited retail and restaurants. It's almost like they're creating a suburban type atmosphere in the city? I don't get it. This is the perfect time for this whole project to be re-evaluated, but we all know that wont happen.

^ You're kidding, right?

If you build it, it will come just doesn't always work, and it sure as hell isn't likely to work in a part of town that will probably end up being another CHA neighborhood (after most of the market rate units fail to sell). Heck, mixed use buildings with ground level retail in dense, wealthy north side neighborhoods have a hard enough time filling.

Roosevelt in this neighborhood will get a CVS store (which will be decently designed), and mixed use retail is going in on Taylor. There also is supposed to be a small smattering of retail on Ashland. To me, that's more than enough for this fledgling community.

[J_M_Tungsten]

I kid you not TUP. It is sad that my neighborhood has no future now as a CHA replacement, and that adding retail and restaurants is no longer an option, apparently.

[ardecila]

Roosevelt in this neighborhood will get a CVS store (which will be decently designed), and mixed use retail is going in on Taylor. There also is supposed to be a small smattering of retail on Ashland. To me, that's more than enough for this fledgling community.

Kargil is planning two big towers at Blue Island/15th (16 and 12 stories) that will have a sizable retail component. 15th Street between Blue Island and Racine will become a retail street.

Hey ardecila, do you have a bigger version of this?

It's vector, so it's as big as you want.
http://www.rooseveltsquare.com/images/map-master2.pdf

[VivaLFuego]

This area (Taylor/Little Italy in general) will suffer from a similar paradox as Hyde Park: a desire to have varied, vibrant, dense retail, but concern about being too big of a draw so as to attract, to put it charitably, undesirables, in addition to any local undesirables that already lessen the appeal of the area.

It's tricky. There's some validity to the Jane Jacobs notion of trying to reach a critical mass of density and activity to keep eyes on the street and discourage crime, but fact of the matter is that the area already suffers an inordinate amount of street crime (muggings) that would probably only increase if there were even more prey walking about.

Like I said, paradox. It may have been short-sighted, but it wasn't an accident that Hyde Park demolished an entire regional retail/entertainment district (55th St) during urban renewal.

There's no good answer for what to do given that the CHA stuff will be there for at least another generation. At least Hyde Park has been incredibly lucky in having much of it's Section 8 and otherwise dilapidated rental housing stock renovated and converted into up-market rentals by Antheus Capital/Mac Property Management over the past few years, so there is very little of the undesirable element left and the local police (U of C police dept) are very vigilant around the perimeter. Thanks to "Roosevelt Square," this area can never fully gentrify, and the retail will always have difficulty in being a truly regional draw - there will be only enough retail to support the surrounding neighborhood residents, and nothing more.

[BVictor1]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/chi-talk-travel-leisure-listsoct09,0,60254.column

Travel + Leisure magazine poll: Readers peg Chicagoans as ugly, surly and not too bright

City ranks No. 1 for skylines and views, dead last in weather

Phil Vettel
Food critic
October 9, 2009


In Travel + Leisure magazine's annual poll, in which readers rate American cities in myriad categories, Chicago is No. 1 (skylines and views) and dead last (weather) for the third straight year.

This year's poll, which compared 30 cities (up from the usual 25), pitted Chicago against the likes of New York, Los Angeles, Boston and Denver, but also against Honolulu, Santa Fe, Kansas City and Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Wait. We've got worse weather than Minneapolis? So say the voters, who also ranked us No. 14 in intelligence, No. 19 in friendliness and No. 20 (out of 30, remember) in attractiveness.

T + L readers sum us up as ugly, surly and not too bright. Who voted on this, the IOC?

More insights: Within the category "type of trip," Chicago was ranked 22nd as an active/adventure vacation destination, 23rd for its relaxing resorts and 18th as an affordable getaway.

But in the "food/dining," "shopping," "people" and "culture" categories, we were No. 2 for big-name restaurants, luxury stores and theater; No. 3 for ethnic food; and in the top 10 for neighborhood joints, cafes/coffee bars and stylishness (homely but well-accessorized, that's us).

For complete rankings, go to travelandleisure.com, or check Travel + Leisure's November issue, on newsstands Oct. 23.

[Via Chicago]

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/10/sale-of-chicago-post-office-building-falls-through.html
Sale of Chicago post office building falls through
October 10, 2009 12:57 PM


British developer Bill Davies will not go through with the $40 million purchase of Chicago's behemoth old post office, auctioneer Rick Levin said this morning.

Davies won the right to purchase the building on West Van Buren Street at an auction in late August. The deal was set to close Sept. 30. But after several hours of discussions at the title company's office, Davies declined to sign the contracts due to disagreement on "certain key issues," his lawyers said in a statement at the time. Those issues were never identified.

Under the terms of the auction, Davies had until today to close the deal. He did not immediately return a message seeking comment this morning.

Now, the U.S. Postal Service could turn to the auction's runner-up, attorney Nathaniel Hsieh, or hold another auction. Post Office spokesman Mark Reynolds said Friday that the agency would not release any statement until Tuesday. Monday is a federal holiday.

The building, which straddles the Eisenhower Expressway, is between the size of McCormick Place and Willis Tower. It has been vacant since 1995.

Im not all that surprised. Since the beginning this guy had been known for backing out of deals, and oddly he never seemed all that enthusiastic about his plans in the first place. I have a feeling he was banking on the Olympics to make something materialize.

[Patel]

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/10/small-fire-at-old-chicago-post-office.html

Small fire at old Chicago post office

October 10, 2009 1:35 PM |

An accumulation of creosol caused a small fire to flare up this afternoon in a vent at the old Chicago post office.

No one was hurt, but the fire caused "some smoke to be seen," said Chicago Fire Department spokesman Larry Langford.

The fire erupted about noon at the West Van Buren Street post office. The Eisenhower Expressway runs through the post office just west of the Chicago River.

[denizen467]

I have a feeling he was banking on the Olympics to make something materialize.
good point - he would have known that the dates involved would give him the chance to bail out if Chicago lost.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/10/small-fire-at-old-chicago-post-office.html

Small fire at old Chicago post office

The fire erupted about noon at the West Van Buren Street post office. The Eisenhower Expressway runs through the post office just west of the Chicago River.

this is starting to look like son-of-Block 37 ...

[Hayward]

How the heck would there be an accumulation of creosol? what on earth are they storing in there?

[ardecila]

^^ You mean besides the Ark of the Covenant, the Roswell UFO, and Captain Kidd's treasure?

[Kippis]

^^ You mean besides the Ark of the Covenant, the Roswell UFO, and Captain Kidd's treasure?

That's highly unrealistic...unless of course you include Atlantis and anything that has vanished in the Bermuda Triangle. :jester:

[Chicago Shawn]

How the heck would there be an accumulation of creosol? what on earth are they storing in there?

I'm guessing it happened in one of the vents used to expel the train exhaust from below.

[mcfinley]

Re the Chicago post office: didn't the runner up, Nathaniel Hsieh, want to tear down a large portion of the building to make room for some parking podium schlock? I'm not sure whether there were any conditions for preservation in the sale, but I'm inclined to advocate for a second auction.

[ardecila]

Re the Chicago post office: didn't the runner up, Nathaniel Hsieh, want to tear down a large portion of the building to make room for some parking podium schlock? I'm not sure whether there were any conditions for preservation in the sale, but I'm inclined to advocate for a second auction.

He would continue Walton Street Capital's plan, which did involve tearing down some of the center. It's not "making room" for anything, though. The large floorplates are impractical for re-use, so they're subtracting from the volume of the building. The east and west walls may be retained with a metal framework behind, forming a courtyard in the middle and preserving the lines of the building from the outside. I could even see them doing an Embassy Suites and building a giant roof over the courtyard, although that would be ridiculously expensive to heat and cool.

Regardless of who develops the building or what the plan is, substantial parking WILL be involved. In such a large structure, it's ludicrous to even suggest building something without parking.

[Kippis]

I found this little tidbit on University Hall from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Hall_(University_of_Illinois_at_Chicago) ...it's not very very relevant to the overall future planning for the East Campus, but funny nonetheless:

"University Hall, or UH as it is popularly referred to, can be seen from miles away and is helpful for new students finding their way around campus.

Due to its current structural condition, pedestrians are advised to be aware of their surroundings, and note that in the event of an imminent collapse, one should not seek shelter in the nearby Behavioral Sciences Building (BSB), because of its close proximity. Rather, one should seek cover in the Architecture & Arts Building (A&A), which is located directly east of UH."

[J_M_Tungsten]

^^^ are they that concerned with the state of this building that it might collapse?!

[ardecila]

That sounds like a prank...

[BWChicago]

That sounds like a prank...

The wiki history says someone added it today, so yeah, it is

[Mr Downtown]

Demolition of the west façade of the Old Post Office, as the Walton Street plan proposed, is supposedly now foreclosed by the protections negotiated by the State Historic Preservation Officer as part of the sale conditions.

However, a well-connected developer, skillfully playing the panic game ("nothing will ever be built again and so you have to let us do it or it will crumble onto the expressway. . . "), could stir up a fight at the state level that might force the SHPO to back down.

[ardecila]

^^ Does that preservation easement say anything about what's behind the facade? I pitched a scenario where the wall itself would be retained and reinforced, while the floorplates behind it would be demolished to form an interior courtyard. If demolition of the center section truly makes economic sense, then that should be the way to go.

[spyguy]

After many, many years of delays, MetraMarket's first tenant finally opened a few weeks ago.
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/3387/p1010028r.jpg
http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7043/p1010030r.jpg
^Sorry for the crappy pic. I'm trying to think of the changes made to the OTC concourse. There's some additional lighting and those steel canopies you see above each storefront.

[the urban politician]

^ Great to see. Hope this is the beginning of a new era

[Busy Bee]

^Exactly. I've been very excited (and patient) with the Metra Market plan since it was proposed years ago. It's great to see Chicago get a piece of that European train shed retail concourse style vibe that you just don't have many examples of in the US.

[ardecila]

There's some additional lighting and those steel canopies you see above each storefront.

The station listing boards have also been replaced with new freestanding ones that are pulled out from the wall.

I wonder if the new businesses will prompt Metra to keep the Randolph concourse open later? Having to walk to Madison is a pain after they put the padlocks on the Randolph doors at 8pm or so.

[ardecila]

Senior Residences

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8697/l01h.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8870/l08.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/631/l02d.jpg

[Mr Downtown]

^^ Does that preservation easement say anything about what's behind the facade? I pitched a scenario where the wall itself would be retained and reinforced, while the floorplates behind it would be demolished to form an interior courtyard.

Well, this was what I suggested a couple of years ago on SSC. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=12884685&postcount=50) But I had the chance to talk about it with the architects for the Walton Street proposal, and he reminded me of the incredible wind loading on a western façade of this size. It would require enormous structure to be constructed behind it. I'm not even sure that keeping 24 or 40 feet of the slabs behind it would be enough lateral support. (I think that's the column spacing, but I can't remember which way is 24 and which way is 40).

To answer your question, I believe the agreement covers preservation of all façades and of the historic lobby.

[denizen467]

Senior Residences

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8697/l01h.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8870/l08.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/631/l02d.jpg
Nice find. Who are the architect and developer?

Funny that the demolition that was going on a couple months back was the next block east, not this block - I wonder if it also was for this project.

[emathias]

Senior Residences
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8697/l01h.jpg
...

Yes please!

[BVictor1]

Senior Residences

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8697/l01h.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8870/l08.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/631/l02d.jpg

Isn't this the site of the old Hudson Tower proposal?

It looks pretty nice.

[VivaLFuego]

Senior Residences at Hudson/Chicago

Is this a live proposal, or renderings from an architecture firm's website for a project of undetermined likelihood?

[sentinel]

Nice find. Who are the architect and developer?

Funny that the demolition that was going on a couple months back was the next block east, not this block - I wonder if it also was for this project.

These are from my old firm (GREC - did 505 N. State, aka the Palomar)..old firm before I got the boot :yuck:

As far as I remember, the client promised the firm the work if they did this schematic stuff but then they still gave the project to another, larger firm - not sure on the status of the new tower.

[ardecila]

These are from my old firm (GREC - did 505 N. State, aka the Palomar)..old firm before I got the boot :yuck:

As far as I remember, the client promised the firm the work if they did this schematic stuff but then they still gave the project to another, larger firm - not sure on the status of the new tower.

Sucks. I guess the departure of the client prompted GREC to post the renderings on their site. But at least we know there's still interest for a tower on the site

Well, this was what I suggested a couple of years ago on SSC. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=12884685&postcount=50) But I had the chance to talk about it with the architects for the Walton Street proposal, and he reminded me of the incredible wind loading on a western façade of this size. It would require enormous structure to be constructed behind it. I'm not even sure that keeping 24 or 40 feet of the slabs behind it would be enough lateral support. (I think that's the column spacing, but I can't remember which way is 24 and which way is 40).

I'm sure there's some cool structural solution (retaining/building a structural "grid" like they do for many loft warehouse conversions). That seems wasteful, though, so I'm sure they can find SOME sort of use for the center section that doesn't require demolition.

[wrabbit]

Chicago Tribune
Cityscapes by Blair Kamin

New life for once-threatened Art Deco landmark: Zell's Equity Group renovating old Chicago Daily News Building

.....Nine years ago, Chicago billionaire and real estate mogul Sam Zell weighed the possibility of tearing down the sphinx-shaped office building at 400 W. Madison St., which for years has been known as 2 North Riverside Plaza.

The Daley administration said “no.”

Then, in early 2008, shortly after assuming control of Tribune Co., the owner of this newspaper, Zell pondered whether to cram an office tower onto 2 North Riverside’s precedent-setting, riverfront plaza.

This time, the recession intervened.

“That idea is not dead, but right now, it doesn’t make economic sense,” said David Contis, president of real estate for Zell’s Equity Group Investments.

Instead, Equity has begun what it characterizes as “a multimillion-dollar renovation” of the 26-story building, whose location next to the Ogilvie Transportation Center and near Union Station makes it convenient to rail commuters.....

Read full article at: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/theskyline/2009/10/new-life-for-oncethreatened-art-deco-landmark-zells-equity-group-restoring-old-chicgao-daily-news-bu.html#more

[wrabbit]

Chicago Tribune
Cityscapes by Blair Kamin

Granite panels on Thompson Center deemed unstable; all panels in building's arcade to be removed

After a piece of granite weighing 600 pounds fell to the sidewalk in August, about 1,000 granite panels will be removed from the street-level arcade that lines the exterior of the John R. Thompson Center, the main state office building in downtown Chicago, state officials announced Wednesday.....

.....Work on the removal is expected to start at the end of October and should take about eight weeks. Some streets around the Thompson Center may be closed as the work is done.

Read full article at: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/theskyline/2009/10/granite-panels-on-thompson-center-deemed-unsable-all-panels-in-buildings-arcade-to-be-removed.html

[Haworthia]

Some details on what happens next with the Old Post Office.

http://www.suntimes.com/business/roeder/1823676,CST-FIN-roeder14.article

High bidder defaults on deal to buy old Chicago Post Office

October 14, 2009
DAVID ROEDER droeder@suntimes.com

In 1966, the old Chicago Main Post Office, 433 W. Van Buren, was the site of an equipment breakdown that delayed mail across the country for three weeks. The same old building now has the U.S. Postal Service in a fix that's nearly as bad.

The cash-strapped agency needs to sell the expensive, vacant hulk that straddles the Eisenhower Expy., and it held an auction to do so. The winner of that auction, British investor Bill Davies, committed $40 million to the sale but didn't close by a deadline that expired Saturday. On Tuesday, postal authorities convened in Washington to discuss what to do.

Their decision: Ask all other bidders from that Aug. 27 auction to submit a price for the building. Spokesman Mark Reynolds said the agency hopes to have a new deal by the end of the month. As for Davies, "He defaulted and we are moving forward," keeping his $4 million deposit, Reynolds said.

The second-highest bidder from the auction, Chicago attorney Nathaniel Hsieh, provided other details. He said the postal service wants bids by Friday accompanied by a $1 million deposit. Hsieh, who said he represents mostly Chinese and Russian investors, expressed outrage at the decision. Hsieh said he has a valid contract with the postal service obligating the agency to negotiate with him if the Davies deal blew up.

The postal service has denied such a backup contract exists. Hsieh stopped his bidding at $39.5 million but said his group now is willing to go no higher than $10 million for the building. The historic structure is a vast challenge for redevelopment and costs about $2.5 million a year just to keep heated and secure.

Hsieh said he will file a federal lawsuit today seeking to enjoin the postal service from entertaining offers.

Reynolds said the agency just wants to unload the property. The route to that simple goal has gotten frustrating and circuitous, like a line down at the post office.

I find it encouraging that Hsieh is fighting so hard to get the property and and at a good price. To me, that suggests that this is a much more serious developer than Bill Davies.

I think something needs to be done with the property fast. I know some forumers would prefer nothing be done with it until there is a better plan. I think that is the case of the perfect being the enemy of the good. I think as time passes, the odds this will be demolished only rise. If ANYTHING can be done with it that isn't demolition and adds to the city, I will be happy.

[spyguy]

The old Igoe Building on Van Buren is slowly being renovated. Unfortunately, the fire escapes have been removed in the process. Apparently Panera is opening on the first floor, which is good news for the area but strange considering a)the general dearth of retail nearby b) this is Panera's only location west of the river (not including the South Loop).
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8948/igoebuilding.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8223/p1000999u.jpg

Tailor Lofts aka International Tailoring Company Building aka White Tower Building
847 W Jackson
Student housing and retail
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/9006/tailorlofts1.jpg
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5937/p1010019t.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/7581/p1010010z.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8602/p1010011a.jpg
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/8083/p1010016m.jpg

[spyguy]

The new Adams/Sangamon park's groundbreaking ceremony was about a week ago
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5894/p1010013r.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/920/aerialperspective4editup6.jpg

This is one of the few times I've seen the Hellenic Museum site not full of parked cars. aic4ever, is that a sign that construction is imminent?
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/7569/p1010007y.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2346/p1010006e.jpg

[ChicagoismynewBlog]

The old Igoe Building on Van Buren is slowly being renovated. Unfortunately, the fire escapes have been removed in the process. Apparently Panera is opening on the first floor, which is good news for the area but strange considering a)the general dearth of retail nearby b) this is Panera's only location west of the river (not including the South Loop).
http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/8948/igoebuilding.jpg
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8223/p1000999u.jpg

Thanks for the news 'spyguy.' I've noticed this building for the past year and have always thought it would be awesome as a loft conversion because of the huge windows, etc. I'm glad to hear someone's doing something with it. Hopefully they turn out good.

http://chicagoismynewblog.wordpress.com

[the urban politician]

That Igoe Lofts is a beauty! Always makes my day to see classic building stock like that get a new lease on life.

Are 'Igoe Lofts' supposed to refer to residential lofts or office space?

[a chicago bearcat]

The old Igoe Building on Van Buren is slowly being renovated. Unfortunately, the fire escapes have been removed in the process. Apparently Panera is opening on the first floor, which is good news for the area but strange considering a)the general dearth of retail nearby b) this is Panera's only location west of the river (not including the South Loop).


So that Potbelly's on jackson will have some lunch competition now

because in terms of breakfast nobody's touching lou's

[Mr Downtown]

I find it encouraging that Hsieh is fighting so hard to get the [old post office] and and at a good price. To me, that suggests that this is a much more serious developer than Bill Davies.

I think he's not a developer at all. He simply represents a syndicate of rich immigrants who are buying green cards for themselves by pretending to be property investors.

[VivaLFuego]

I think he's not a developer at all. He simply represents a syndicate of rich immigrants who are buying green cards for themselves by pretending to be property investors.

Boy, that's quite a charge. Wouldn't a multi-millionaire have more options at his disposal to obtain permanent residence than acquiring a stake in a giant albatross property of questionable economic value? One could set up and capitalize a shadow corporation for way less than the millions involved in buying the Post Office.

Unless you're being sarcastic, these intertubes often cloud nuance.

[emathias]

Boy, that's quite a charge. Wouldn't a multi-millionaire have more options at his disposal to obtain permanent residence than acquiring a stake in a giant albatross property of questionable economic value? One could set up and capitalize a shadow corporation for way less than the millions involved in buying the Post Office.

Unless you're being sarcastic, these intertubes often cloud nuance.

It's one of the easiest and fastest ways to get residency here, and I believe you have to leave it invested, so they really don't care if it's an albatross as long as it's unlikely to lose its entire value. That's not a bad business for the guy who assembles the deal, really, and it's entirely legal, although I'm a little surprised he announced it publicly.

[brian_b]

Boy, that's quite a charge. Wouldn't a multi-millionaire have more options at his disposal to obtain permanent residence than acquiring a stake in a giant albatross property of questionable economic value? One could set up and capitalize a shadow corporation for way less than the millions involved in buying the Post Office.

Unless you're being sarcastic, these intertubes often cloud nuance.

It's perfectly legal and extremely common. The law was designed to be abused. If you want to see more examples, look at the two massive automobile factories being built in Alabama and Mississippi by former Chinese auto executives for cars that have yet to be designed or engineered. They are being funded by hundreds of Chinese "investors". Why build in the US instead of China? One auto industry is suffering from overcapacity and huge sales drops while another is growing faster than any other in history and just recently became the largest market in the world with very little end in sight to the growth. And perhaps you are wondering why Alabama and Mississippi. Oh it just so happens that they are considered poor areas and the law that gives an "investor" permanent residency cuts the investment requirement in half in poor areas. BTW, the "investors" don't need to be multi-millionaires...

[VivaLFuego]

If he represents a syndicate of many, many lower-income folk that would make much more sense (MrD said the prospective immigrants were 'rich'). I just don't see why a very rich person would go through that trouble when there are easier, cheaper, and less risky ways to establish a company here and make an 'investment' for the purpose of obtaining permanent residency than buying one of the largest buildings on the planet that doesn't even clearly have a present economic value of greater than $0 given ongoing operating cost and the cost of any renovation.