PDA

View Full Version : Airbus A350 - Official Thread


Pages : [1] 2

GioFX
Jul 18, 2006, 12:25 PM
Airbus unveils the A350 XWB (Extra Wide Body)

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/scienzaetecnologia/nuovo-airbus/afp85435801707161341_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/scienzaetecnologia/nuovo-airbus/afp85435211707161345_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/scienzaetecnologia/nuovo-airbus/afp85434841707161347_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/scienzaetecnologia/nuovo-airbus/afp85369061707195021_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/scienzaetecnologia/nuovo-airbus/afp85428271707161350_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/scienzaetecnologia/nuovo-airbus/ap85440411707195007_big.jpg

Flightgloba.com:

Farnborough: Airbus provides details of new A350 Xtra Wide Body (XWB) family of long-range twinjets

Airbus has today unveiled its revamp of its A350 aircraft offering, detailing a new wider A350 XWB aircraft family to enter service from the middle of 2012.

The A350 XWB will comprise three aircraft: A 314-seater, the A350-900, to enter service mid-2012, a 270-seat version, -800 to enter service in early 2013 and the 350-seat -1000 to enter service in the first quarter of 2014.

In addition the family will comprise an A350-900L for ultra long-range aircraft and an A350-900 freighter.

Airbus is seeking to offer two engine manufacturers for the aircraft family and has already secured agreements with Rolls-Royce to provide powerplants for all three A350 types.

Speaking during a media briefing during the Farnborough air show, chief operating officer John Leahy said: “It’s a totally new design, with new cabin, new wings, new systems and new engines.”

GioFX
Jul 18, 2006, 12:27 PM
Flightglobal.com:

Farnborough: Finnair first carrier to commit to new Airbus A350 XWB twinjet family

By David Kaminski-Morrow in Farnborough

Finnair has become the first airline to commit publicly to the redesigned Airbus A350 XWB twin-jet, despite the flag-carrier having to incur a year’s delay in taking delivery of the type.

It had placed an order for nine Rolls-Royce-powered A350-900s towards the end of last year, plus four options, and was intending to acquire the aircraft in spring 2012. Under the new plan it will put the A350 XWB into service in 2013.

Finnair says that it has negotiated “arrangements to compensate” for changes to the airline’s fleet-renewal plans, and the resulting delays, although it has not disclosed details.

But the airline adds: “We have ensured our long-haul fleet expansion despite Airbus announcing that it has postponed the release of its new-generation A350 aircraft type due to technical modifications.”

The Oneworld member had previously indicated that it was not particularly concerned about the prospective revamping of the A350.

“We are pleased that we will be acquiring an even better aircraft than we originally ordered,” says Finnair deputy chief executive Henrik Arle. “Naturally the changes in the release timetable require us to make adjustments but we have negotiated on these interim arrangements with Airbus in a constructive atmosphere.

“The basis of our arrangement with Airbus is that the foundations and profitability of our business are not threatened by the change.”

Airbus’s A350 XWB will comprise a family of three aircraft – the A350-800, A350-900 and A350-1000 – featuring an improved wing, increased capacity, new engines and capable of higher speeds than the previous A350.

Finnair has been introducing Airbus A340 aircraft to supplement its long-haul Boeing MD-11s in order to support its route expansion strategy which is focusing on Asian destinations.

While Airbus has outlined its revamp to the A350, new chief executive Christian Streiff plans to wait three months before seeking approval to formally launch the new aircraft – meaning orders can not be formalised until that point.

Airbus secured orders and commitments for 182 aircraft for the original A350 from 14 customers. Speaking at a press conference yesterday announcing the changes to the aircraft, Airbus chief operating officer John Leahy outlined his confidence when asked about the likelihood of converting these commitments to the new aircraft – suggesting he thought the carrier would only lose a maximum of one or two.

GioFX
Jul 18, 2006, 12:30 PM
hmm, could an admin please correct the title?

JMGarcia
Jul 18, 2006, 1:10 PM
^Fixed. :)

staff
Jul 18, 2006, 1:31 PM
As I said before - what a gracious aircraft!
Even though its design is quite a rip-off of the B787 - it makes the latter one look almost boxy! :haha:

urbanflyer
Jul 18, 2006, 1:42 PM
This 'XWB' stuff is such a ridiculous misnomer though. The "Extra Wide Body" is still going to be 13 inches narrower than the 777.

GioFX
Jul 18, 2006, 1:54 PM
i wouldn't be so strict urbanflyer... A350 and 777 are wideboy twinjets, right? Airbus simply added an extra to emphasize the narrower body of this arcraft, a key product in the future Airbus' offering.

And, most important of all, its marketing.

staff
Jul 18, 2006, 1:59 PM
Yep, and I heard its supposed to have straighter walls as well, thus making the cabin more roomy.
But I agree, "XWB" is just a pure marketing term.

GioFX
Jul 18, 2006, 2:00 PM
And BTW A350 first opposer is the 787 Dreamliner, while the 777 only for the long-range *900LR and the -F.

The Chemist
Jul 18, 2006, 2:04 PM
This 'XWB' stuff is such a ridiculous misnomer though. The "Extra Wide Body" is still going to be 13 inches narrower than the 777.

It is XWB when compared to previous Airbus widebodies, so it's not a misnomer at all.

Good looking plane all around - as long as Airbus can deliver on time without the problems that plagued the 380, this is sure to be a smashing success.

JMGarcia
Jul 18, 2006, 3:18 PM
The A350 XWB will comprise three aircraft: A 314-seater, the A350-900, to enter service mid-2012, a 270-seat version, -800 to enter service in early 2013 and the 350-seat -1000 to enter service in the first quarter of 2014.

The A350-900 with 314 seats is direct competition to the 777-200ER and possibly the 787-10x. Being the first version it shows what plane the A350 is really in competition with. The 777-200ER being and "old" plane also allows Airbus to publish very good numbers in comparison.

The A350-800 which comes next is a competitor with the 787-9.

The A350-1000 isn't quite big enough to exactly match the 777-300ER but is obviously meant as a competitor in that size range.

The 787-8 and 787-3 do not have a competitor at this point from Airbus.

It is, IMO, wise for Airbus to compete with the 777 over the 787. It is much easier for them to leap frog the older 777 than it would be the 787.

Wright Concept
Jul 18, 2006, 3:45 PM
It's a good idea, but I think Airbus is barking up the wrong tree at this time. They should be working on further improving their A320 so that they'll have the low-cost 100 to 200 seat market locked up, because Boeing is slow on their 737 improvements.

Sulley
Jul 18, 2006, 3:48 PM
It seems rather hastily put together, no?

The Chemist
Jul 18, 2006, 3:59 PM
It's a good idea, but I think Airbus is barking up the wrong tree at this time. They should be working on further improving their A320 so that they'll have the low-cost 100 to 200 seat market locked up, because Boeing is slow on their 737 improvements.

They are planning to re-engine the A32x family within the next three years to improve efficiency. But that family is still incredibly popular, while their midsized widebody offering (A340 especially) is being outsold by a large margin by the 777. The A350 is a far more pressing need for Airbus than an improved A32x family.

urbanflyer
Jul 18, 2006, 4:12 PM
Existing A32Xs are also being revamped with a fleet improvement program that includes weight saving materials and blended winglets.

But I agree, "XWB" is just a pure marketing term.

Given that two A350 variants are direct 777 competitors it's a misnomer, marketing or not.

JiminyCricket II
Jul 18, 2006, 6:55 PM
-see below

JiminyCricket II
Jul 18, 2006, 7:00 PM
It's a good idea, but I think Airbus is barking up the wrong tree at this time. They should be working on further improving their A320 so that they'll have the low-cost 100 to 200 seat market locked up, because Boeing is slow on their 737 improvements.

I don't know, the smaller planes (A32x) just aren't as profitable as widebodies, constant sellers, yes, but with the 350 they can start raising cash again. Then work on a 320 improvement.

For example, the 737 family is by far Boeings best selling plane, but the 777 is their most profitable family.

They have to have a competitor against the 787/77 or risk losing out on probably the most in-demand market(the midsize wides) the industry needs, not to mention the most profitable.

Fabb
Jul 19, 2006, 6:20 PM
There were rumours that the A350 would be named A370.

Wright Concept
Jul 19, 2006, 6:28 PM
Airbus unveils more than 60 new jet orders
By JANE WARDELL and LAURENCE FROST, AP Business Writers
49 minutes ago


European planemaker Airbus announced more than 60 new jet orders Wednesday, making up some ground on U.S. rival Boeing Co.

Airbus arrived at the Farnborough International Airshow on the backfoot after costly new production delays to its flagship A380 superjumbo sparked high-level management changes. It unveiled deals with plane leasing company International Lease Finance Corp., low-cost carrier AirAsia Bhd. and Greece's Aegean Airlines SA.

The vast majority of the orders were for Airbus' A320-family single-aisle passenger jets.

Malaysia's AirAsia ordered 40 of the planes, with an option for 30 more, while ILFC, a unit of American International Group Inc., ordered six of the jets.

Aegean Airlines picked up three more A320s to replace aging aircraft in its fleet.

"We are very proud to see a renewed order from Aegean Airlines so quickly after becoming a new Airbus customer in December 2005," said Airbus Chief Executive Christian Streiff.

Aegean has now committed to 14 aircraft of the A320 family — including three additional A320s leased from ILFC — and has a further nine options. Delivery of the aircraft announced Wednesday is scheduled to take place between January 2007 and April 2009.

In another, nonbinding agreement, Spanish carrier Grupo Marsans agreed to buy 12 Airbus A330-200 airplanes, with an option for a further 10 planes.

Airbus also said that its corporate jetliner arm has won a new order from an undisclosed European customer, taking firm orders of the company's executive and private aircraft in 2006 to a record 14. Airbus did not disclose which of its corporate jets was ordered or its list price.

Boeing Co., meanwhile, announced orders for 14 of its passenger and cargo planes.

The Chicago-based company said that ILFC exercised an option to purchase a total of 10 planes — six 737-800s, two 777-300ERs and two 787 Dreamliners — in a deal worth around $1.2 billion at list prices.

"These airplanes reflect our confidence in the market going forward and our commitment to Boeing and its product line," said ILFC Chief Executive Steven F. Udvar-Hazy.

ILFC was the first leasing company to be announced as a Dreamliner customer at the Dubai Airshow in 2005.

"As our largest leasing customer, ILFC has great influence on the market and we appreciate its affirmation of our product line," said John Feren, Chicago-based Boeing's vice president of leasing and asset management.

Deliveries of the 737s and the 777s will begin in the first quarter of 2009 and deliveries of the 787s will begin in early 2012.

Boeing also announced a nonbinding agreement to sell Indian cargo airline Flyington Freighters four 777 freighters. Boeing said that deal was subject to the carrier obtaining the necessary statutory clearances.

The rash of deals came on the third day of the airshow, one of the biggest events on the aviation calendar.

Airbus is seeking to reassure investors at Farnborough that it is back on track after the A380 delays and management changes last month at both Airbus and its parent company European Aeronautic Defense and Space Co.

The upheaval came amid mounting customer dissatisfaction with the midsized A350 program, which was billed as a rival to the 787 but had won only 100 firm orders prior to a $10 billion revamp announced this week, compared with the Dreamliner's 360.

Pressure for a rethink of the A350 had also intensified with rising oil prices, as Boeing's twin-engined 777 increasingly trounced the less-efficient, four-engined Airbus A340 in competition for contracts. Airbus fell behind Boeing on overall order value last year as a result.

Unveiled Monday, the A350XWB — for "extra-wide body" — seeks to beat the Dreamliner at its own game. It offers bigger windows, a roomier cabin, even greater fuel efficiency and a larger stretch version seating 350 passengers — 15 fewer than the 777-300ER.

Some analysts are skeptical about the ambitious objectives, as well the announced 2012 entry into service.

Airlines at the show have voiced tentative interest in the new design. The chairman of Dubai-based carrier Emirates gave cautious approval and British Airways PLC said it will study the Airbus blueprint before deciding on new mid-sized planes.

Including nonbinding commitments, Boeing has sold 403 Dreamliners and says it is talks to sell twice as many more.

"If anything, the pace is picking up," said Mike Bair, head of Boeing's 787 program. But a decision on ramping up production from 2010 isn't needed for another year, he said.

Major AWACS
Jul 19, 2006, 6:38 PM
Airbus always pumps out orders at Farn but they will lose the "battle" to Boeing this year. Besides they haven't gotten the official go-ahead on this third redesign of the A350ish aircraft. We will see. And if Airbus redesigns the entire wingbox 2012 is a bit early for airline use.

Main Dreamliner production has already started in Italy, Japan, and the US.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Fat kids are harder to kidnap

The Chemist
Jul 19, 2006, 7:04 PM
Airbus always pumps out orders at Farn but they will lose the "battle" to Boeing this year. Besides they haven't gotten the official go-ahead on this third redesign of the A350ish aircraft. We will see. And if Airbus redesigns the entire wingbox 2012 is a bit early for airline use.

Main Dreamliner production has already started in Italy, Japan, and the US.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Fat kids are harder to kidnap

This is a very large segment, though - the 787 production line is full until at least 2011, so any new orders now will have to wait at least that time to get their planes. If Airbus is able to get the new A350 out by 2012, they should have no difficulties competing for new orders in the coming years. Even if the A350 captures only 40% of this segment, that's still a hell of a lot of frames, and the program will be very profitable for Airbus. Then Airbus can put their efforts into designing a replacement for the A32x family.

Major AWACS
Jul 19, 2006, 8:56 PM
true but Boeing is studying opening another production line. They are already trying to speed up production and might order more LCF aircraft to deliver tubes faster and speed up production even more.

At over 10 Billion in investment it will not be profitable unless they can spin some development off into other new airframes. Right now the A-380 has not made money, the A400 is way behind and not making money and the initial A-350 is gone with nearly $5 billion more in funds needed. Not good times at Airbus.

I am not some pro Boeing guy per se. Boeing's 787s are made in Japan, Canada, Britain, Italy and the US just to name a few, and depending on the engines +25% of the Airbus A-380 is US made. It is all int'l at this point.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Viva Cessna

GioFX
Jul 21, 2006, 10:30 AM
Source: flightglobal.com

Farnborough: SIA shocks the air show by ordering 20 Airbus A350s, nine further A380s

By David Kaminski-Morrow in Farnborough

Singapore Airlines has signed a letter of intent to purchase 20 Airbus A350 XWBs and a further nine A380 aircraft.

The carrier’s agreement, revealed at the Farnborough air show, also includes options on another 20 A350s and six further A380s.

Deliveries of the A350s – which will be the -900 version – will begin in 2012 and run to 2014. The additional A380s will be delivered from late 2008 and run to 2010.

No engine selection has been given for either type. The value of the agreement for the 29 firm aircraft is put at $7.5 billion.

staff
Jul 21, 2006, 11:01 AM
As Leahy said - "orders speak louders than words".
Thanks you SQ, and thank you Airbus, for making my day a little better. :)

YEAH!

GioFX
Jul 21, 2006, 1:28 PM
did they cancel the boeing orders? why?

staff
Jul 21, 2006, 1:40 PM
^^
I read it somewhere but can't find the link anymore - maybe it's just a rumour?! I'll edit my last post...

Daquan13
Jul 21, 2006, 1:46 PM
Why not just called this thread The Airbus Boom Thread - like the Boeing thread was renamed The Boeing Boom Thread?

That way ALL of Airbus' planes can be discussed here.

staff
Jul 21, 2006, 1:55 PM
I guess that's not a bad idea. :)

The Chemist
Jul 21, 2006, 2:34 PM
To modify a famous quote - 'Rumours of Airbus's death have been greatly exaggerated' :D

Despite the delays, SIA still has confidence in the A380, which is great news for that beleagured project, and their orders for the A350 are also encouraging for that project, especially since it hasn't even had its industrial launch yet. Airbus is going to remain a formidable competitor for Boeing, no question about that.

STR
Jul 21, 2006, 3:17 PM
^Corporations never die, they just shrink, grow and get bought by bigger corporations.

Daquan13
Jul 21, 2006, 11:19 PM
Like the time when Boeing bought out McDonnell Douglas. And Boeing's only other rival IS Airbus.

Too bad that it's no longer like the "70s to the early '80s - the days when the Big Three were in business, and each one competed against the other, vying and jockeying to be in the position of being King of the Throne!!

STR
Jul 22, 2006, 5:11 AM
^Either can fail and be bought up by the likes of Embraer, Bombardier, Lockheed Martin, Tupolev or a dozen other jet builders.

Daquan13
Jul 22, 2006, 7:56 AM
Tupolev actually made a plane that bore a strikingly similar appearance to the 757. TheTu-204.

The only difference was that the Tupolev plane had winglets back then, which the 757 didn't have at the time. This was the 2nd time that the Russian co made a Boeing look-alike. The Tu-154 bore a striking ressmblence to the 727.

Lockheed Martin, as we all know, made the L1011 Tristar sort of a DC-10 look-alike. The main difference was the location of the center engine.

And when the 777 was in the design stages, Boeing once toyed with the idea that it would also be a DC-10 / MD-11 look-alike as well. And the 777 is STILL the largest and most powerful twin-aisle twinjet airliner to date!

RafflesCity
Jul 24, 2006, 1:04 AM
did they cancel the boeing orders? why?

nope they didnt cancel the earlier order for 787s:

SIA to buy 20 Airbus A350s, nine A380s

21 Jul 06

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/imagegallery/store/phpZcyPJ7.jpg

SINGAPORE : Singapore Airlines has signed a letter of intent to buy 29 new passenger jets - 20 A350s and nine A380s - from European aircraft manufacturer Airbus, the company said Friday.

The firm order is worth US$7.5 billion and includes an option for another 20 A350s and six more of the double-decker A380s, SIA said.

Deliveries of the A350 XWB-900s, dubbed extra wide-body, are scheduled to begin in 2012 and run through to 2014 while the nine additional A380s will begin arriving in late 2008 and run until 2010, SIA said.

The announcement of the deal came one month after the profitable carrier reached a deal with Airbus' US rival Boeing for 20 Boeing 787 Dreamliner aircraft worth US$4.5 billion.

SIA plans to be the first airline to fly the A380, the biggest commercial airliner ever, when it takes delivery of the first of 10 super-jumbos on order by the end of the year.

Technical problems on the A380 had earlier prompted the carrier to express its disappointment over delays in deliveries which have been progressively pushed back.

"This latest order, together with Singapore Airlines' order in June for 20 Boeing 787s, will position the airline well for future growth and uphold our policy of continuous fleet renewal and modernisation," SIA chief executive officer Chew Choon Seng said.

The A350 has just been reconfigured after clients complained Airbus had failed to match up to Boeing's 787 Dreamliner which has won hundreds of orders. - AFP/ch

GioFX
Jul 26, 2006, 9:35 PM
From Flightglobal.com:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/07/25/Navigation/177/208045/Airbus+goes+for+extra+width+-+A350+XWB+special+report.html

Airbus goes for extra width - A350 XWB special report

By Max Kingsley-Jones at the Farnborough air show

The original A350 is dead. From its ashes rises a bigger design the European manufacturer says is 'entirely new'.

Airbus chief salesman John Leahy was like the cat that got the cream at the Farnborough air show when he finally won clearance to unveil the manufacturer's all-new medium-capacity offering - the "A350 Xtra Wide Body [XWB]".

Leahy was confirming what has been buzzing around the industry bazaars for months - that Airbus had relegated the original A330-derived A350 to the dustbin and started with a clean computer screen. But nothing beats hearing it from the horse's mouth, and Airbus has answered many questions with its A350 announcement, having on the face of it at last created a worthy twin-engined competitor for both the Boeing 777 and 787.

The new A350 looks radically different to any previous twin-aisle Airbus, and bears more than a passing resemblance to the new aircraft from Seattle it has been created to defeat. Its US rival has already labelled the new Airbus as nothing more than a "me-too" long-range twinjet - in much the same way Airbus executives first referred to the 787 as a "Chinese copy" of the A330.

Uncertainties remain - including the current lack of a choice of engine suppliers; whether all existing customers will tolerate the increased list prices and rescheduled delivery targets that are two to three years later than previously planned; and how it will raise the estimated €8 billion ($10 billion) development costs, which are almost double those that were projected for the old model.

Going for gold

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=13916

The details were announced at a packed press conference hosted by Airbus's new chief executive Christian Streiff, who conceded that, although the original A350 had a relatively healthy orderbook (182 commitments from 14 clients), "many of our customers told us we should do better".

He credited the president of the company's "number one customer" - Steve Udvar-Hazy of International Lease Finance - for finally pushing Airbus to design a truly competitive rival to the 787. "Steve Hazy told us 'don't run for the silver medal when you able to run for the gold - give me an aircraft that is ahead of the present standard of the industry'."

Streiff said that the A350 XWB is an "entirely new design" and the "best in-class offering for mid-size and long-range aircraft". He emphasises that the new A350's definition is completed and it is "100% ready" for industrial launch. Streiff said that, as newly appointed chief executive, he wants to take the next "100 days" to look at the programme as part of a company-wide evaluation, but expects the new model to get approval from "both shareholders" for a full go-ahead in the "early days of October".

During this three-month overview, Streiff said he will evaluate "the possibility of a faster ramp-up". He will also conduct a complete review of the supply-chain management and obtain "a full understanding of the exact situation with potential risk-sharing partners".

New baby

Streiff was adamant that during this overview process, the development programme will continue and it will not delay service entry beyond the new mid-2012 target. "We will do everything possible to improve this schedule," he adds.

Given the impressive specification promised by Airbus, it is not surprising that Leahy has been itching to unveil his new baby. The new three-member family that has been evolved over the last seven or eight months has a new wider fuselage cross-section and all-new larger wing, creating what Airbus is convinced is a single, integrated product range that will be able to out-gun both the 787 family and the 777-200ER in a single blow.

The A350 XWB family has three members - the -800, -900 and -1000, seating 270, 314 and 350 passengers respectively, and all offering a range of 15,700km (8,500nm). Maximum take-off weight for the -800 is unchanged at 245t, but the mid-size -900 variant (now the lead model) has grown 20t to 265t while the new -1000 will weigh in at 290t.

Taking time

Further down the road, planned ultra-long-range and freighter variants of the A350-900 will bolster Airbus's armoury in the battle against the 777-200LR and 777 Freighter. The downside is that customers will have to wait until mid-2012 to receive the first aircraft - 18 months later than previously scheduled.

Leahy defended the additional slip, which puts the A350 even further behind the 787, the first of which is due to enter service in the second half of 2008, by saying that customers pushed Airbus to put its later time-to-market to good use.

"Our customers said 'you're coming out [with the original A350] about three years behind your competitor...why don't you take the time and come out later with a better airplane," said Leahy. "And that's what we've done - come out with an aircraft that is a step ahead of the 787 and a leap ahead of the generation of aircraft that Airbus and Boeing are building today."

Airbus has 100 firm orders for the old A350, and a further 82 commitments, and Streiff says the intention is to convert all these to the new model. Although Leahy was reluctant to talk specifically about any potential pricing changes for existing deals, he said that "it is a much more impressive aircraft, so we will be asking more".

The list price for the new A350-800 variant is $189 million, while the new -900 is $215 million and the -1000 is $242 million. The original -800 and -900 were priced at $154 million and $171 million when quoted last year, which means the new models are 20-25% more expensive. Existing customers look set to resist Airbus's price rises and Leahy conceded he may lose "one or two" of them as part of the renegotiations.

Central to the new design is an all-new wider fuselage with a diameter 31cm (12in) wider than the A330 and 8cm (at armrest) to 13cm (at eye level) wider than the 787, which Airbus said enables it to accommodate slightly wider (48cm) economy seats than its rival. The new design maximises usable volume by having a constant cross-section from door one to door four. "The Airbus taper is no longer there in the back," Leahy said.

For the first time in a twin-aisle Airbus, the fuselage will be a double-lobe ovoid design, with the lower section being essentially the same as the A300/A330/A340 and sized to accommodate two standard LD-3 containers side-by-side.

The redesigned fuselage is capped by a completely new nose with revised, four-piece cockpit windows. Meanwhile, passenger windows are 5cm wider than those on today's A330, making them the "widest on any airliner", said Leahy.

Airbus has not yet fully defined the structure of the new fuselage, but is likely to retain a definition similar to that of the previous A350, which made widespread use of aluminium lithium rather than carbonfibre as specified by Boeing for the 787. "We may also have some 'black metal' composite parts," said Streiff.

The new wing is little changed structurally from the earlier A350's, being made largely from carbonfibre, but with some metallic ribs. However it has greater span and chord, and increased sweep (by 3° to 33°), pushing normal cruise speed up from Mach 0.82-0.83 to M0.85.

Powering up

Leahy said that the new A350's engines will be "more advanced than those on the 787 and planned for the earlier A350", with thrust ranges between 75,000lb (334kN) and 95,000lb. Rolls-Royce "is signed up" for the new programme and Leahy said the new variant derived from the Trent 1000-series engine for the A350 XWB - which will "more than likely" be adapted for bleed - will offer a 2% reduction in specific fuel consumption over the earlier engine.

But General Electric - whose GEnx was the launch engine on the original A350 - is conspicuous by its absence, and has all but ruled out supplying an engine for the largest A350 variant. "We're in discussions looking for a second engine manufacturer," said Leahy, who hints that Engine Alliance - the GE/Pratt & Whitney joint venture that supplies the A380's GP7200 - is one potential candidate.

GE is known to be reticent about powering the largest A350 variant as it would put itself in direct competition with the 777-200LR/300ER for which it is the exclusive engine supplier. But Airbus has recently compiled a new forecast that predicts demand for nearly 6,000 aircraft in the A350's category between 2010 and 2030 and sources say that it hopes to convince GE there is room enough in the market for everyone to compete safely.

STR
Jul 26, 2006, 10:19 PM
Central to the new design is an all-new wider fuselage with a diameter 31cm (12in) wider than the A330 and 8cm (at armrest) to 13cm (at eye level) wider than the 787, which Airbus said enables it to accommodate slightly wider (48cm) economy seats than its rival.

OMG, That's what I've always wanted. Everytime I sit in a airliner I'm always pining for an extra 1.5cm.

GioFX
Jul 26, 2006, 10:26 PM
the wider the better, period.

:tup:

Stratosphere
Aug 5, 2006, 11:34 AM
Cabin concept pics

Wide aisles and well-balanced bins give easy access to hand luggage.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007113/media_object_image_lowres_A350_29_mr.jpg

The ceiling in business class will display different skyscapes.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007112/media_object_image_lowres_A350_18_mr.jpg

The business corner will offer the same connectivity as on the ground.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007109/media_object_image_lowres_A350_03_mr.jpg

The infinity dome enhances the feeling of space in the entrance area.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007110/media_object_image_lowres_A350_14_mr.jpg

The large overhead bins can easily take four roll-on bags.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007111/media_object_image_lowres_A350_16_mr.jpg

Sound-proofing material on partitions further reduces cabin noise level
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007093/media_object_image_lowres_soundproof_3frame_panel.jpg

Mood lighting, continuous lines, rounded shapes and live TV will make the journey an even more enjoyable experience.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007096/media_object_image_lowres_a350_cabin_general_view_tvscreen_bar_ecoclass.jpg

Easy seat identification facilitates boarding.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007097/media_object_image_lowres_a350_cabin_eco_optic_fibre_seat_numbering.jpg

The A350 has unprecedented bin capacity for roll-on luggage.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007041/media_object_image_lowres_cabin_A350_5_md.jpg

The smooth lines of the overall cabin architecture
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/INTERIOR/att00007038/media_object_image_lowres_cabin_A350_md.jpg

JMGarcia
Aug 5, 2006, 3:34 PM
the wider the better, period.

:tup:

I've always thought leg room is far more important the seat width. I'd gladly trade the extra width for more legroom. But, of course, this is up to the airlines and not the manufacturer.

GioFX
Aug 5, 2006, 3:45 PM
well, it depends on the flight length... for short flights i'd go for wider seats... for longer routes more legroom for sure.

Fabb
Aug 5, 2006, 4:13 PM
The official site (http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a350/a350_xwb/index.html).

Sulley
Aug 5, 2006, 6:42 PM
This all seems like a ripoff of the 787... even down to the faux trendy mock-up interior!

Daquan13
Aug 5, 2006, 9:47 PM
The interior is almost similar in features and height to the 787 Dreamliner, but
with a mostly white interior!

urbanflyer
Aug 5, 2006, 10:58 PM
None of these fantasy mock-up interiors will ever be used in airline service.

STR
Aug 5, 2006, 11:16 PM
Infinity Dome? That has to be the most retarded name I've ever hear used in the aerospace industry, ever.

No offense to any retarded people who may be reading this, I wouldn't want to be associated with "Infinity Dome" either.

GioFX
Aug 5, 2006, 11:20 PM
maybe the UAE... :D

Daquan13
Aug 6, 2006, 3:55 PM
None of these fantasy mock-up interiors will ever be used in airline service.



It's main principle is to give the airlines roughly a general idea of how they'd like to configure the plane, should they decide to order it.

And BTW, even though this plane is said to be a bit wider than the 787 Dreamliner, I would tend to think that it will also be heavier than the Dreamliner, causing it to spend more fuel in the air.

And I also figured that they (Airbus) would be planning to eventually make an ultra-long-range varient of this plane and a freighter craft to complete with the 777-200LR Worldliner and the 777F (Freighter).

wolfie
Aug 6, 2006, 9:22 PM
The mock-up interiors are (just like the XWB and Dreamliner tags) dreamed up, as it were, by marketing folk, with a little input from designers. ;)

In fact, more and more of the press releases and PR that emerge from Farnborough seem to be marketing-led rather than design-led or even tech-led. But... even though there are hints of Tarkovsky's film "Solaris", or "2001: A Space Odyssey", in all that seamless white cladding, the organic-looking seats and concealed lighting, it still looks futuristic. If a bit retro. The pity is that the planes are deserted, and just like professional architectural photography- where have all the people gone? Apart from a couple of extras from a modelling agency(!)

You get a good feel for the colour, tone and line of the cabin in the mock-up, but less of an idea of scale, especially when seats are sometimes shrunk, to make the cabin look larger; or increased in size, to look more commodious, and by implication more luxurious. I guess it's just the same as the concept cars which turn up at motor shows- they're aspirational, and they tease you about the end result, giving you styling cues rather than being literal.

They do fill up the pages of Flight magazine, though, so at least the journo's are happy. :)

If you're interested, this magazine might also be of interest- Aircraft Interiors-
http://www.ukintpress.com/mag_aircraftinteriors.htm

And possibly this book too- Airline: Identity, Design and Culture
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1856692051/sr=8-1/qid=1154898939/ref=sr_1_1/202-2357482-1090204?ie=UTF8&s=gateway

Buckeye Native 001
Aug 6, 2006, 10:33 PM
I can just see it now on a long-ass flight:

Me: "I'll see you chaps* later, when we land. I'm going to go stare at the INFINITY DOME!"

*Because I call people "chaps" all the time...

urbanflyer
Aug 7, 2006, 6:20 AM
It's main principle is to give the airlines roughly a general idea of how they'd like to configure the plane, should they decide to order it.

Gee, thanks for clearing that up.

GioFX
Oct 7, 2006, 3:10 PM
From FlightGlobal.com:

A380 delay puts brakes on A350 XWB formal launch at Airbus

By Guy Norris & Max Kingsley-Jones

Airbus looks to add larger 350-seater to twinjet family, but launch may be held up as snags beset ultra-large airliner

Airbus is studying a bigger version of its largest A350 XWB variant, the -1000, to improve its competitiveness against the Boeing 777. But the manufacturer may be forced to delay the formal launch of the entire A350 XWB family as it battles with the more pressing problems that surround the A380.

As unveiled at the Farnborough air show in July, the A350-1000 will seat 350 passengers in a three-class configuration – around 15 fewer seats than the largest 777 variant, the -300ER – with service entry set for 2014. But according to airline sources, Airbus is studying a larger A350-1000, partly due to pressure from Lufthansa, which is evaluating the A350 along with the Boeing 787 for its long-haul fleet needs. The larger -1000 could compete more effectively with the -300ER, and extend the trip cost advantage over the baseline 777-200ER.

http://www.flightglobal.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=14922
© Fixion / Airbus

Airbus may put A350 aside temporarily as it focuses on A380 problems

Airbus says the design of the A350-1000 “has not changed since Farnborough”.

The study is evaluating higher thrust requirements beyond the 95,000lb (423kN) limit outlined for the -1000 variant when it was unveiled in July, but General Electric, which provides the industry’s only engine capable of producing more than 100,000lb thrust, continues to maintain that it will not power any competitor to the GE90-115B-powered 777-200LR/300ER.

GE, which is offering the GEnx in the 75,000-87,000lb-thrust class for the revised A350-800/900 XWB, but not for the -1000, says only that it remains “in continued discussions with Airbus as the aircraft family evolves”. Rolls-Royce, the only engine supplier supplying all three variants, with its Trent 1700 family, says it is “in constant discussion with Airbus about a range of issues, including the A350”. Airbus’s studies are believed to be geared to the rising number of potential 777 replacement opportunities that could arise around 2014-15. Roughly 70 777s will have been in service for 15-16 years by 2014, with around 60 aircraft having 17 years in service by the same date and 30 with 18 service years.

Meanwhile, industry sources say that the October launch target set at the A350 XWB’s Farnborough unveiling could now slip into next year as the bulk of Airbus’s engineering resources have been deployed into resolving the ongoing A380 production delays.

Airbus says that it “remains committed to the XWB and the objective remains [to launch in] October, or in any case before year-end”. Flight International understands that at least one key A380 customer has told Airbus to put the A350 to one side and keep its focus on the A380 in the near term. But any further launch slip is likely to push the A350’s service entry beyond the mid-2012 target set for the initial -800 model, and Airbus is anxious not to hand further advantage to the rival 787.

The article here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/Article.aspx?liArticleID=209601

Nexus6
Oct 8, 2006, 12:15 PM
Me: "I'll see you chaps* later, when we land. I'm going to go stare at the INFINITY DOME!"

There will be a big red sticker on it:

"WARNING! Continous staring at the InfinityDome(TM) can cause you to loose feeling for time and/or space. Patients with a known predisposition should consult their physician before looking at InfinityDome(TM). Parents are advised to have their children take frequent breaks of at least 5 minutes in between looking at InifityDome(TM). InfinityDome(TM) is assumed to be non-harmful to an unborn child but to date there has been no extensive study of possible adverse side effects on pregnant women. If you feel uncomfortable, dizzy or are observing any other strange body sign please stop looking at InfinityDome(TM) immidiately and consult the cabin crew for medical assistance."

GSTom1
Oct 11, 2006, 12:46 AM
Looks like Airbus and their new CEO Louis Galloisare going forward with the redesigned A350. Given the delays with the A380 and the proposed job cuts in the European workforce, I wonder how long before we see the first A350s hit the skies?

:shrug:


New Airbus chief commits to A350
Oct. 10, 2006. 11:02 AM
LAURENCE FROST
ASSOCIATED PRESS


PARIS — The new head of Airbus pledged Tuesday to go ahead with plans for a mid-sized jet and with cost savings identified by former CEO Christian Streiff, who quit amid a leadership struggle after little more than three months in the job.

Shares in European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., which owns 80 per cent of Airbus, rose 4.6 per cent to 21.09 euros ($26.58) in Paris, recovering some of their losses since the European planemaker announced a second year of delays to its A380 superjumbo on Oct. 3.

Louis Gallois, appointed to succeed Streiff at Airbus while also staying on as EADS co-chief executive, said he was in favour of pressing ahead with the planned A350 jet to rival Boeing Co.'s 787.

"I believe that Airbus has to be present across the whole market, and the A350 is the middle of the market," Gallois said in an interview broadcast by Europe-1 radio on Tuesday, the morning after his appointment was announced. The A350's mid-size category accounts for "40 per cent of the market" by value, he added.

Gallois also said the Airbus turnaround plan will involve "painful" job cuts, without giving details. French financial daily La Tribune reported on its website that Airbus managers are discussing measures to cut 10,000 of the company’s 56,000 European employees.

After concentrating massive resources on its 555-seater flagship A380, Airbus has been outmanoeuvred by Boeing’s two-engine 787, which delivers better fuel economy than older four-engine Airbus jets in the same size category — a sales argument that has grown more persuasive as fuel prices rise. Boeing has more than tripled the number of orders taken by Airbus so far this year.

Doubts had been growing over the $10 billion (U.S) A350 XWB program announced by Streiff in July as a competitor to Boeing's 787 and 777 jets. EADS is facing a financial crunch as a result of the A380 program’s soaring costs and a weaker U.S. dollar, which hits revenue in euros from Airbus' dollar-denominated jet sales.

Tom Enders, the German co-CEO of EADS, suggested last week that the A350 might not be built at all. "We will discuss intensively in the next weeks whether we have the financial and engineering resources to actually take on this program," Enders told reporters Thursday.

Airbus stunned investors in June by doubling A380 production delay to one year — then doubled it again to two years earlier this month, saying the problems will wipe 4.8 billion euros ($6.1 billion U.S.) off EADS profits over four years. To counter the hit, it pledged 2 billion euros ($2.5 billion U.S.) in annual cost cuts by the end of that period.

But Gallois, who headed France’s state-owned SNCF railway company before joining EADS in July, said the costly two-year A380 delay was not Airbus’s biggest problem.

"The main handicap to Airbus’s competitiveness against Boeing is the weakening of the dollar," Gallois said.

The U.S. currency has fallen 41 per cent against the euro since the A380 was launched, Gallois said. EADS is about to feel most of the impact as hedging positions progressively expire in coming months and years. Currency hedges effectively offer time-limited insurance policies against adverse exchange rate movements.

Gallois pledged to push ahead with the cost-cutting strategy drawn up by Streiff, who had won support for the plan from EADS directors but clashed with the board over how it could be implemented and how much control he would exercise.

In an interview published Tuesday in the French daily Le Figaro, Streiff said he had not been allowed the "necessary operational powers" to do the job effectively and overcome resistance among "certain shareholders" to make the necessary cuts. EADS is tightening supervision of the company as it acquires the 20 per cent of Airbus it does not already own from Britain’s BAE Systems PLC.

Streiff had also unnerved German politicians and trade unions by suggesting that A380 work could be transferred to France from Germany and the planned A350 assembled entirely in France, to save time and cash — a prospect Gallois did not address in his comments on Tuesday.

Daquan13
Oct 11, 2006, 3:35 AM
I think they should first take care of all of the problems with the A-380 first, since that plane is already in production and is supposed to be delivered to the airlines like last year.

Then, and only then, they should focus on the A-350. No need of them putting the carriage before the horse.

The Chemist
Oct 11, 2006, 3:55 AM
I think they should first take care of all of the problems with the A-380 first, since that plane is already in production and is supposed to be delivered to the airlines like last year.

Then, and only then, they should focus on the A-350. No need of them putting the carriage before the horse.

What, and give the 787/777 two more years of dominance in the market with no suitable competitor? I'm sorry, but Airbus would be in even worse trouble if they delay the A350 any longer - they need a veritable 787/777 competitor, and the A350 is it. A company the size of Airbus can handle more than one project at the same time.

WonderlandPark
Oct 11, 2006, 5:42 AM
Not building the A350=suicide mission.

No way Airbus can cede and entire market segment that large to Boeing.

JiminyCricket II
Oct 11, 2006, 6:42 AM
A company the size of Airbus can handle more than one project at the same time.

apparently they can't, they've said for the better part of a year now that they do not have the engineering resources to take on both projects right now.

Daquan13
Oct 11, 2006, 12:49 PM
Chemist & Wonderland, Airbus has already unknowingly recinded their integrity and quality to Boeing when they started having those problems and delivery delays with the A-380.

This was supposed to be their monster jetliner - their multi-billion-dollar baby,
and it was supposed to put them on top of the world as far as monster jumbos go.

And they've also already recinded when the A-350 was sent back for a redo.
As it stands now, they're gonna have to do a lot of catching up to get back on top to once again be a fierce competitor with Boeing.

And you're so right, JC! Airbus does NOT have the engineering resources to take on both projects right now. That's why I've said earlier, that they should try to clear up all those glitches and hurdles with the A-380 first, then try to work on getting the A-350 into production.

The Chemist
Oct 11, 2006, 2:22 PM
^Again, unless Airbus is in even worse condition than we know, they simply cannot delay the A350 until the A380 is delivered to customers. The widebody twin market is huge, and a two year delay in that market would be ceding a lot of business to Boeing, business that Airbus simply cannot afford to lose at the moment. Starting up the A350, despite the added costs, is a case of short term pain for long term gain. It HAS to be done, otherwise Airbus will cease to be a competitor in the widebody twin market.

Daquan13
Oct 11, 2006, 2:46 PM
But they've already got about a four-year wait before the first A-350 even rolls off the assembly line.

And by that time, the 787 Dreamliner will already be in service with some of the airlines that have ordered it.

And Airbus is talking about matching the 777-300ER and the 777-200LR Worldliner with this plane. It will even be a while before they can do that.

There is also even talk of making the plane with a completely composite fuselage like the 787 Dreamliner - something that they were already balking up against Boeing about doing earlier this year.

munkyman
Oct 11, 2006, 5:01 PM
Where exactly is Airbus planning on getting money for the A350? I don't think massive government subsidies are going to fly with Washington & the WTO. I think that is the main issue - Airbus could start 10 planes if they wanted to, if the European governments that back their parent EADS decide to write them a blank check. But this scuffle with Boeing & the subsidies isn't going to just go away, and Airbus will have to either incur the wrath of the WTO or finally find some other way to get their money.

GioFX
Oct 11, 2006, 5:43 PM
.

STR
Oct 12, 2006, 5:00 AM
^Again, unless Airbus is in even worse condition than we know, they simply cannot delay the A350 until the A380 is delivered to customers.

They're in the same condition as all airliner makers, they have enough resources to support one major active R&D project at once. Until the A380 is done, really done, AB SAS cannot launch the A350 within the month. Well, they can, but it'd just be a PR stunt. No real work would commence.

And they can't just double the number of engineers. Not only will that compound the restructring effort, but it may double the development cost of the A350 (increasing unit cost, reducing sales). Plus, there may not even be enough qualifed people to fill the jobs. An airliners needs some 5,000 full time engineers of various trades to be done right. Even if there are enough minds, it would take at least a year (probably closer to two) to hire, train and get everyone working.

No matter how you look at it, the logistics of the current situation is horrible. AB and EADS are basically stuck with their thumbs up their jetpipes until the A380 is through development. Period.

Daquan13
Oct 12, 2006, 8:17 AM
As it is, engineers and workers are being temporarily pulled from other production models like the A-320, A330 and A340, so yes, I'd also say that they are in deep crap.

And I STILL say get the A-380 cleared of all glitches before moving on to the A350. They simply can't afford to burn the candle at both ends as this point.

It would cost them too much.

Daquan13
Oct 12, 2006, 2:07 PM
Where exactly is Airbus planning on getting money for the A350? I don't think massive government subsidies are going to fly with Washington & the WTO. I think that is the main issue - Airbus could start 10 planes if they wanted to, if the European governments that back their parent EADS decide to write them a blank check. But this scuffle with Boeing & the subsidies isn't going to just go away, and Airbus will have to either incur the wrath of the WTO or finally find some other way to get their money.



They must have a money farm in their backyard.

As it is now, they seem to be pouring money into the A-380 and are only getting pain and misery out of it.

Put simply, someone just didn't do their homework and screwed things up before making the A-380,which now seems to have an adverse affect on the A-350.

They just can't possibly be trying to get the A-350 in production right now, when the A-380's future hangs in the balance!!:shrug:

GioFX
Oct 12, 2006, 6:21 PM
There are no glitches on the plane itself, no issues... its all about the production process firstly caused from transaction from version 4 to 5 of the CATIA software used on the design of the wiring... its an industrial glitch which highlighted the wikness of the Airbus corporated governance driven more by politics than by commerce, as it should be.

Daquan13
Oct 13, 2006, 4:57 AM
Yeah, the word came out that they used aluminum wiring when they should have used copper wiring, which is more durable and safer than aluminum wiring.

Joka
Oct 14, 2006, 11:47 AM
apparently they can't, they've said for the better part of a year now that they do not have the engineering resources to take on both projects right now.

Got a source for that?

Major AWACS
Oct 14, 2006, 6:37 PM
Well there have been three articles in three days in the International Herald Tribune where the *third* Airbus pres in 101 days said they are scaling back and looking to focus on the A380 foul ups. The Emirates backlash not withstanding the A350 already has cost overuns and now the Spaniards are pushing for more job security while the Russians want to invest more, which Hamburg doesn't want. It all makes for great reading really.
Not to mention EADS other problem plane the A400M...

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings.

WonderlandPark
Oct 14, 2006, 9:09 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about the A400M. Supposed to begin delilveries, what, next year?

GioFX
Oct 26, 2006, 10:16 PM
China signs for 150 A320s and 20 A350XWBs as Airbus commits to final assembly line in Tianjin

Airbus has announced agreements for the supply of 150 narrowbodies and 20 A350XWB widebodies to China on the day that also signed its long-awaited agreement with the country to create a final-assembly line in Tianjin.

In a statement the manufacturer says: “China Aviation Supplies Import and Export Group Corporation (CASGC) signed a general terms agreement (GTA) for the purchase of 150 A320 family aircraft and a letter of intent (LOI) for 20 A350XWB aircraft with Airbus in Beijing.”

It adds that the agreements were signed by CASGC president Li Hai and Airbus president and co-chief executive Louis Gallois in the presence of Chinese president Hu Jintao and visiting French president Jacques Chirac.

No further details were initially given.

The Tianjin final-assembly line is now scheduled to begin production in early 2009.

The agreement follows confirmation earlier this year from Airbus and China’s National Development and Reform Commission that Tianjin had been selected from a total of four prospective sites in the country as the location for the new assembly line.

Gallois and Chinese consortium representative Feng Zhijiang officially signed the agreement in Beijing today. The Chinese consortium comprises the Tianjin Free Trade Zone, China Aviation Industry Corp I (AVIC I) and China Aviation Industry Corp II (AVIC II).

The contract is subject to formal approval from EADS’s board of directors and the Chinese government. The assembly line is scheduled to begin production in early 2009, with production rates expected to reach four A320s a month by 2011.

“While the aircraft sections will continue to be produced in Europe, the establishment of such an assembly line, which will deliver aircraft to the same standards as those produced in Europe, is beneficial to both China and Europe,” says Gallois. “We look forward to the day when we can deliver the first aircraft assembled in China to this fast-growing and dynamic market.”

Tianjin is located a few hours’ drive from Beijing and is one of only four cities in China that reports directly to the Chinese government at a national rather than provincial level.

Source: Flightglobal.com

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/10/26/Navigation/177/210227/China+signs+for+150+A320s+and+20+A350XWBs+as+Airbus+commits+to+final+assembly+line+in.html

sciguy0504
Oct 27, 2006, 7:53 PM
The Euros aren't screaming about final assembly in China or is that another country that Airbus has to cater to?

GioFX
Oct 27, 2006, 10:13 PM
uh?!?

R@ptor
Oct 29, 2006, 12:22 AM
170 planes!...now that's what I call a huge order :banana:

GioFX
Nov 15, 2006, 12:33 AM
A350 Decision By The End Of November

http://www.finanznachrichten.de/nachrichten-2006-11/artikel-7304972.asp

Louis Gallois, co-chief executive of EADS, said the company will decide by the end of this month whether to build a revamped version of the Airbus A350 plane...

GioFX
Nov 21, 2006, 12:10 AM
FlightGlobal.com

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/11/20/Navigation/177/210654/A350+XWB+set+for+launch+but+entry+into+service+slips.html

A350 XWB set for launch but entry into service slips

By Max Kingsley-Jones

Industrial go-ahead imminent for new twinjet family, but Rolls-Royce remains the only engine supplier to commit

As Airbus awaits an imminent industrial go-ahead from EADS for the A350 XWB, it is facing a year's slip in the twinjet's entry-into-service (EIS) target. The manufacturer has also so far failed to enlist General Electric on the programme, leaving Rolls-Royce as the only supplier committed to provide an engine for the new family.

Airbus parent EADS says its directors are "preparing to make a decision" about the A350 XWB "in the weeks to come" and progress is expected by early December.

Although the all-new A350 XWB was unveiled in July at Farnborough, industry sources say the twinjet's basic specification is still not finalised. The industrial go-ahead will enable Airbus to commit large-scale engineering resources to complete this effort.

Airbus is believed to be aiming to complete the design freeze for the three-member A350 family (-800, -900 and -1000) in 2008, but in the wake of the airframer's recent production issues, sources say the service-entry target for the first version (-900) has slipped to no earlier than mid-2013 - a year later than proposed at the Farnborough launch.

The manufacturer is also struggling to sign a second engine supplier to compete with R-R on the A350. GE was the lead supplier on the original A350 with its GEnx engine and has indicated it could offer the engine on the two smaller A350 models - but not the -1000 because it would compete with the GE-powered Boeing 777 models. GE confirms it has not yet formally agreed to power any of the A350 variants, but "is still in very active discussions with Airbus" about the -800/900. This means that customers, many of whom originally signed up for the GE-powered A350, currently only have the R-R Trent option.

Airbus declines to comment on the A350 schedule or engine supply situation ahead of the launch decision. The status of the largest A350, the 350-seat -1000, is the least clear, with key potential customer Emirates saying the aircraft is too small. Service entry had been scheduled for 2014, but this is understood to have slipped until at least late 2015.

The A350-1000 is nominally powered by a 95,000lb-thrust (423kN) engine, but Airbus is exploring thrust growth options above 100,000lb for the variant. Sources indicate that discussions held with GE on a possible 105,000lb GEnx derivative have lapsed, leaving only an R-R, and possibly Pratt & Whitney, option.

JiminyCricket II
Nov 21, 2006, 6:49 AM
GE was the lead supplier on the original A350 with its GEnx engine and has indicated it could offer the engine on the two smaller A350 models - but not the -1000 because it would compete with the GE-powered Boeing 777 models.

wait, so does the Boeing have exclusive rights to the GE90 engines? Why are they worried about their own engines competing with each other?

STR
Nov 21, 2006, 10:54 AM
GE has a lucrative sole-source contract for the 7773ER/772LR, they don't want to endanger it. Boeing really has nothing to do with this. GE can do whatever the hell it wants with its engines.

Daquan13
Nov 21, 2006, 3:29 PM
Where does this leave Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce? They were long-standing jet engine makers with Boeing and the airlines.

Now we hardly hear anything about them. Have they gone out of business or something?

GioFX
Nov 21, 2006, 8:21 PM
Where does this leave Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce? They were long-standing jet engine makers with Boeing and the airlines.

Now we hardly hear anything about them. Have they gone out of business or something?

are u joking? Rolls Royce is the second largest maker and powers both Boeing and Airbus... P&W its a major engine supplier with its own brand and more recently through the Engine Alliance joint-venture with GE.

Actually Airbus may be interested in giving PW a chance to develop their Geared Turbofan (GTF) powerplant originally proposed for the 787.

Daquan13
Nov 22, 2006, 5:52 AM
Pratt & Whitney made engines for the earlier varients of the 767 & 777 for the airlines, mainly United.

In fact, Rolls Royce and GE were in on that game as well. GE powered the 777s for British and Rolls Royce powered the 777s for AMR.

urbanflyer
Nov 22, 2006, 7:35 AM
In on that game?? What are you talking about? :shrug: They've always been in on the game.

Now we hardly hear anything about them. Have they gone out of business or something?

More 777 operators have ordered RR engines than any other option. GE's GE90-115B product is the only option available on the 777-300ER. All three enginemakers are offered on the Airbus A330 and Rolls dominates the A340-500 and -600 with the Trent 500.

You say "we" hear nothing about them when actually it seems to be "you."

sammyk
Nov 22, 2006, 7:53 AM
Don't forget Pratt is a partner in the IAE partnership too.

Pratt doesn't seem to be going anywhere on the commercial side. I don't know if it is a lack of technology or just unwillingness to take risks. Perhaps a combination of both?

urbanflyer
Nov 22, 2006, 7:55 AM
Things really seem to have slowed down after the PW4098 program failed so miserably on the early batch of 773s. Even after several rounds of modification they weren't able to satisfy Korean Air. That said, they've made a lot of other really great engines.

GioFX
Nov 22, 2006, 9:07 PM
^ agree.

Daquan13
Nov 23, 2006, 3:11 AM
The earlier P&W JD or JT-90 for the 747-100 wasn't much of a prize package either.

Remember the problems that were associated with that one?

Daquan13
Nov 23, 2006, 3:13 AM
In on that game?? What are you talking about? :shrug: They've always been in on the game.

Now we hardly hear anything about them. Have they gone out of business or something?

More 777 operators have ordered RR engines than any other option. GE's GE90-115B product is the only option available on the 777-300ER. All three enginemakers are offered on the Airbus A330 and Rolls dominates the A340-500 and -600 with the Trent 500.

You say "we" hear nothing about them when actually it seems to be "you."



What was the last known NEW jetliner they supplied engines for other than the A-330 and the A-340-500 and -600?

These aircraft have been in production for some time now.

urbanflyer
Nov 23, 2006, 3:33 AM
The earlier P&W JD or JT-90 for the 747-100 wasn't much of a prize package either.

You're referring to the JT9D-1 engine. Those problems stemmed from never having developed an engine of that size and they had all sorts of teething and engineering issues. This dubious history was supplanted by the fact that later derivatives such as the JT9D-7R4G2 on the 747-200 and 747-300 were among the most reliable 747 engines ever produced. PW also sold over 10000 units of the JT8D engine for the 737-200, 727, and DC-9/MD-80.

What was the last known NEW airliner they suppied engines for other than the A-330 and the A-340-500 and -600?

The only new transport-category aircraft produced new between the time of the A330 and A340-600 were the 717/MD-95, A340-200/300, 737NG, 767-400 and 777. That's not exactly a laundry list considering two of them are narrowbody models with established engine options and we can discount the 764 as well since CO and DL were the only customers and are GE engine buyers.

There haven't been new aircraft since the A346 other than the 787 and A380...so your point is rather unclear. RR has been the only supplier on a number of business jets including the Gulfstream GV.

When it comes to engine popularity, sales numbers speak more than being a launch engine. And when it comes to the 777 for all variants other than the -300ER and -200LR, RR has been king. They were the chosen engine for most of the largest 777 operators including Singapore, Thai, Cathay, American and British Airways. It would be safe to say the Trent has also dominated the A330. There's no reason to remotely suggest they've been "out of the game" :laugh:

sammyk
Nov 23, 2006, 9:50 AM
One new aircraft that comes to mind that they supplied an engine for (with their own name) is the A318. Even then it was late and if I remember right, it needed some redesign and not sure if it lived up to expectations after that. I think it is destined for Lan Chile unless they switched.

R@ptor
Nov 23, 2006, 3:28 PM
If it was up to me, they should cancel the entire A350 project. First they should focus on the A380 and if that project is finished they should start with a complete overhaul of their A320 family or develop a completely new plane in the 80-100 seat range (according to recent studies there will be a HUGE market for such planes in the next 2-3 decades).

The competition in the medium-sized long-range market is lost to Boeing and their B787 anyway. They can't expect to introduce the A350 into service before 2013 at a time when Boeing will probably have sold and built hundreds of its 787 planes.

urbanflyer
Nov 23, 2006, 3:39 PM
they should start with a complete overhaul of their A320 family or develop a completely new plane in the 80-100 seat range

This is absolutely key and I couldn't agree more. Mitsubishi has already announced they are commencing design in the 90-100 seat category and the clock will be running if they can get a project off the ground.

Daquan13
Nov 23, 2006, 7:28 PM
In the early to mid '80's, there was a run for some of the then many aircraft makers to produce a narrowbody 90 - 150-seater, and the A-320 was one of the candidates.

Boeing was in the race as well as MD. Fokker also had a candidate.

GioFX
Nov 23, 2006, 7:54 PM
Given the current sales of the A32X family and the upcoming boost in production from 25 to 30 frames/month they have plenty of time to think on a successor.

GioFX
Nov 23, 2006, 7:54 PM
double-post.

JiminyCricket II
Nov 24, 2006, 4:34 AM
I think they really need to have the A350 get off the ground asap. narrows just aren't that profitable. It's like Alan Mulally said before he went to FoMoCo: for current airplanes in production, as families, the 737 outsells the 777 10 to 1, but the 777 is still more profitable.

And that's the reason why Boeing *destroyed* Airbus in revenue last year despite Airbus outselling Boeing. I think this is why Airbus is pushing to get the A350 into production - wides are extremely profitable.

paul451
Nov 24, 2006, 6:01 PM
If it was up to me, they should cancel the entire A350 project. First they should focus on the A380 and if that project is finished they should start with a complete overhaul of their A320 family or develop a completely new plane in the 80-100 seat range (according to recent studies there will be a HUGE market for such planes in the next 2-3 decades).


Its funny that you say this, as this morning EAD's should signs that they were halting funding for the project, by canceling a crucial meeting.

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/articlebusiness.aspx?storyid=2006-11-24T101412Z_01_L24450127_RTRUKOC_0_UK-TRANSPORT-EADS.xml&type=businessNews&WTmodLoc=Business-C3-More-2

I don't think this project will takeoff for another 5-10 years, EAD's has way to many problems currently to even consider another project.

GioFX
Nov 25, 2006, 12:12 AM
And that's the reason why Boeing *destroyed* Airbus in revenue last year despite Airbus outselling Boeing. I think this is why Airbus is pushing to get the A350 into production - wides are extremely profitable.

Destroyed?

Are you comparing Boeing Corp. with Airbus S.A.S.?

The Chemist
Nov 25, 2006, 1:16 AM
The A330 is an excellent plane, and I think if money is a problem for Airbus (which it seems to be) they could possibly just re-engine the 330 with the most modern available engines and make it much more efficient for a relatively low cost outlay. Then they could sell it for much less than a 777/787. Even if they don't come close to 50% market share, they'd still probably get a lot of business for it, without having to spend $10 billion to develop a completely new aircraft. Once the 380 program is in order, THEN they could launch the 350 program and have it be a success.

urbanflyer
Nov 25, 2006, 3:20 AM
^
The problem with doing that (and the whole idea behind the A350) is redesigning the wing. The A330 wing is fine for its application but to significantly increase the weight and fuel tankage for range competitive with the 787 would require a redesign. Wing design is by far the most expensive component of any aircraft program, so it's pretty hard to avoid. Slapping on some newer engines wouldn't better efficiency by any more than 6-7%.

JiminyCricket II
Nov 25, 2006, 12:29 PM
Destroyed?

Are you comparing Boeing Corp. with Airbus S.A.S.?


I'm comparing Boeing Commercial with Airbus. Boeing dominated the widebody market while Airbus dominated the narrow. And last years revenues showed how much the disparity there is in terms of how much more the wides sell for.