[alex1]

How many murders does your city have through the first 6 months of the year? How does it compare to 2005?

2006 | 2005 | #drop | percentage+/-

New York | 268 | 245 | 23 | 9.4% (through July 2nd)
Los Angeles | 240 | 255 | -15 | -5.9% (edit: through July 8th)
Detroit | 203 | 174 | 29 | 16.67% (through July 5th)
Chicago | 201 | 210 | -9 | -4.3%
Philly | 185 | 176 | 9 | 5.1%
Baltimore | 133 | 159 | -26 | -16.4%
Phoenix | 103 | 99 | 4 | +4.0%
Memphis | 91 | 67 | 24 | 35.8%
D.C. | 82 | 85 | -3 | -5.7% (through July 5th)
Las Vegas | 80 | 83 | -3 | -3.6% (through July 22nd)
Jacksonville | 70 | 38 | 32 | 84.2%
Oakland | 68 | 39 | 29 | 74.4%
Prince George County | 61 | 84 | -23 | -27.4%
Birminham | 56 | 42 | 14 | 33.0%
San Francisco | 45 | 41 | 4 | 9.8%
Boston | 41 | 36 | 5 | 13.9% (through July 16th)
Kansas City | 38 | 54 | -16 | -29.6% (through June 25)
Montreal | 32 (metro)
Orlando | 30? 31?
Toronto | 34
Portland | 14 | 11 | 3 | 27.3%
Seattle | 10 | 11 | -1 | -9% (through May)

[MNMike]

All this morbid murder talk...

Anyway, I don't know where to find official numbers, but I think Minneapolis is up to 36 for the year so far:( don't know about St. Paul, but its considerably less.

[Blitz]

3 so far this year, 2 last year.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Actually the Los Angeles number is up to July 8th, 2006.

[BnaBreaker]

Good Lord what is going on down in Memphis?

[alex1]

Good Lord what is going on down in Memphis?

no doubt. It's actually interesting comparing it to KC. the two are similar sized metros and had relatively equal amounts of murders last year. What a difference one year makes.

[alex1]

Actually the Los Angeles number is up to July 8th, 2006.

do you have the numbers through the first 6 months? Would be nice to substite in the apples to apples numbers.

[TexasBoi]

D.C. | 82 | 85 | -3 | -5.7% (through July 5th)


Oh boy. I would hate to see what the numbers are after July is done.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

i dont, but the LAPD website is amazing and has many many charts. take a look if you have time.

http://www.lapdonline.org/crime_maps_and_compstat


also, the New York number gain is 23 not 17, and Detroit and Philly are crazy!

[PHX31]

Phoenix has 103 murders thru May 31, 2006

103 | 99 | 4 | +4%

[begratto]

Montreal (a region of 3.6M people) had... 22 murders as of July 1st.

[MayorOfChicago]

Damn, Chicago went from taking the cake on murders around 2000-2003 and now we're #4 with Philly not too far behind. Too bad some of the other cities are starting to inch ( or leap ) back up. Chicago missed out on some of the huge drops during the late 90's and early 00's, but it's good to see them at least settling into a range closer to the other cities in the country (obviously this isn't a GOOD thing in general, a number of 0 would be much better ).

Poor Detroit :pet:

[PHX31]

You may want to add that phoenix is only thru May 31st... hopefully the last part of the year gets better.

[The-New-Tony-Detroit]

The murder rate for July thus far in le Detroit seems to be dropping dramatically - hopefully the trend continues into the rest of the year.

Last years total numbers for Detroit was around 360 - the lowest number since 1967. Even at a disgusting clip of 203 for the first half of the year, we still have to take this stat with years when Detroit was bringing in 300 murders in the first half of the year alone!

[Rivernorth]

wow, chicago dropped out of the top 3? this has got to be a first for a long while. hopefully we can keep up this decline in murders. 2005 we had around 450... 2003 was around 600. Looks like this year we will round out at about 400. Definatly getting better.

[EastSideHBG]

How many murders does your city have through the first 6 months of the year? How does it compare to 2005?

2006 | 2005 | #drop | percentage+/-

Philly | 185 | 176 | 9 | 5.1%

Damn, that is sad! 27 more just in July for a grand total of 212...

[Nutterbug]

Apparently...

Seattle | 10

[alex1]

Apparently...

Seattle | 10

still 10 eh? almost 2 months without another murder. That's amazing if true.

Anyone know where Houston stands? I would imagine it's up near the 150-180 range this year.

Edit: Houston had 127 murders through May 3rd.

[James Bond Agent 007]

10 murders for Seattle is through May, not June BTW.

[JAM]

How many murders does your city have through the first 6 months of the year? How does it compare to 2005?

2006 | 2005 | #drop | percentage+/-

New York | 268 | 245 | 23 | 9.4% (through July 2nd)
Los Angeles | 240 | 255 | -15 | -5.9% (edit: through July 8th)
Detroit | 203 | 174 | 29 | 16.67% (through July 5th)
Chicago | 201 | 210 | -9 | -4.3%
Philly | 185 | 176 | 9 | 5.1%
Phoenix | 103 | 99 | 4 | +4.0%
Memphis | 91 | 67 | 24 | 35.8%
Oakland | 68 | 39 | 29 | 74.4%
San Francisco | 45 | 41 | 4 | 9.8%
Birminham | 56 | 42 | 14 | 33.0%
Jacksonville | 70 | 38 | 32 | 84.2%
D.C. | 82 | 85 | -3 | -5.7% (through July 5th)
Kansas City | 38 | 54 | -16 | -29.6% (through June 25)
Orlando | 30? 31?
Toronto | 34


Thats a bunch. As we sit here in the safety of the USA, and bitch about the war and death toll in Iraq, and suck oil as our soldiers go get it for us. Looks like we should be bitching about the USA death toll as well. I think less have died in Iraq this year, which we all know is in a state of war. Pretty amazing.

[LMich]

You wouldn't mind backing up that second to last sentence with some facts, would you?

[EastSideHBG]

I hate to say, "I told you so!", but Philly had 8 more already, bringing the total up to 220!!!!!!!

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15100211.htm

[Stratosphere 2020]

What about ATL's murder rate?

[SteveD]

Atlanta's murder count, and violent crime overall, has been dropping significantly in recent years:

2002: 151 murders
2003: 149 murders
2004: 113 murders
2005: 89 murders


I'll see if I can find '06 to date....

[JAM]

You wouldn't mind backing up that second to last sentence with some facts, would you?

Are you referring to the U.S. death toll or the Iraq death toll? anyway, for U.S. I am just using what is posted at top of thread, I don't have time to go get links for that data, here is what I would guess would be worst case Iraq death toll numbers, since this website is called anti war. If it is true, I don't know, if you are really interested, I'm sure if you do a google, you will find more info that you care to.

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

[JAM]

Atlanta's murder rate, and violent crime overall, has been dropping significantly in recent years:

2002: 151 murders
2003: 149 murders
2004: 113 murders
2005: 89 murders


I'll see if I can find '06 to date....

They say in times of prosperity, murder rates go down, along with other crimes.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Folks, please stop using the term "murder RATE" to express the NUMBER of murders in a city. The RATE of murder (and all crime, by convention) is expressed as occurrence per 100,000 persons. This is much clearer, standardised, and more telling than the number (in cities with hugely varied populations). Chicago has, and has always had, a MUCH higher murder "rate" than NYC.

In Canada for 2005, after all that wailing and gnashing of teeth over the "explosion" of murders in Toronto, it was Edmonton that was in fact the nation's murder capital, with a murder rate more than double Toronto's. Toronto's murder rate was 2.0 per 100k; Edmonton's was 4.4. Yes, it doesn't take a lot to be Canada's murder capital (Edmonton's rate was roughly one-tenth that of Detroit), but there ya go.

[urbanflyer]

Disgusting numbers, as usual. What a model of civility America sets for the world :rolleyes:

Nagoya, Japan year to date: 1

[alex1]

He was referring to the iraq death toll. I think last count for just the previous two months was over 5,000 innocent lives lost (considered low by some). Much of the reported deaths are Baghdad & nearby region-centric. The numbers continue to escalate as the months tick on by.

It's silly to think that war should be viewed as a one sided affair.

[oshkeoto]

^ And even if you're only counting American deaths, you're comparing a population of 135,000 to a population of 300 million.

[JAM]

^ And even if you're only counting American deaths, you're comparing a population of 135,000 to a population of 300 million.

All above points are valid. My only point is if people have the gumption to complain about the war deaths while sucking oil by using their huge SUV's, then they ought to also complain about murders in this country.

[SteveD]

Folks, please stop using the term "murder RATE" to express the NUMBER of murders in a city. The RATE of murder (and all crime, by convention) is expressed as occurrence per 100,000 persons. This is much clearer, standardised, and more telling than the number (in cities with hugely varied populations). Chicago has, and has always had, a MUCH higher murder "rate" than NYC....

Duly noted. I'm a stickler for that sort of detail too...I was just replying to the prior poster's terminology, but I've since edited my post to read "murder count". Speaking of murder "rate", Atlanta has historically fared poorly in that regard, and a significant reason has been its relatively small city limits area, especially in comparison to other similarly sized metros. Less than 1 in 10 in the Atlanta metro lives within the city limits of Atlanta...Atlanta is the most suburbanized large metro in the nation. Also, the population within the city limits swells by more than 60 percent daily, with the influx of daytime workers, and that much larger daytime population is not reflected in murder rates. This is not meant to minimize Atlanta's violent crime problem, it's just to point out some of the inherent flaws in comparing murder rates. Atlanta's crime is in large part no better or worse than other similarly sized sprawling sunbelt metros.

[Trae]

I say, for every murder, we go and meet the family who has lost a loved one, and see how much these numbers mean. A life is a life, priceless.

[Strayone]

Disgusting numbers, as usual. What a model of civility America sets for the world :rolleyes:

Nagoya, Japan year to date: 1

I saw that Jam posted the #s for Austin and thought 89 does'nt seem to bad, then I saw Nogoya has had one murder so far this year and realised how desensitized we have become to the situation here. Its great that the #'s have been decreasing, but this is so unacceptible.

[SteveD]

well, how many tens of millions of guns do we have in this country? And how much poverty and despair? And single or no parent children? Or teenagers having children?...And how criminally underfunded is mental health treatment and awareness? I know...guns don't kill people, people killl people....thank Charleton Heston and the NRA...who knows how many people you pass on a downtown city street are "packing heat". It's revolting.

[SHiRO]

4 this year so far, don't know how much last year up till the same point but it were 5 over the whole of 2005.

Some American cities have more murders then my whole country (population: 16,2 million, 208 murders in 2005).

[unusualfire]

It's time to treat criminals as less than third world citizens.

[alex1]

All above points are valid. My only point is if people have the gumption to complain about the war deaths while sucking oil by using their huge SUV's, then they ought to also complain about murders in this country.

I absolutely agree with your main point (about American cities being "war zones" to some degree).

However, bringing Iraq into this dicussion doesn't make any rationale sense IMO. It's oranges to apples.

[alex1]

speaking of Austin, where do they stand through the first 6 months in '06 and '05. Best I can tell is 26 murders for 2006. Not sure how accurate that is though.

[austin356]

15 or 16 for first 6 months in Mobile. Lower than last year even though population has increased by 10% due to hurricane. Maybe better economic times (now in Mobile) due bring about less violence, at least the random robbery/killing, etc.


Does the FBI complile metro area statistics for the public access? With the changing dynamic of urban cities around the nation, crime will begin to disperse around the metro area more evenly; this will mean that the city stats will not give a full picture to the area's safety.

[waj0527]

Murder Numbers for Baltimore:

Thru June 2005: 159
Thru June 2006: 133

[Gerrard]

Montreal (a region of 3.6M people) had... 22 murders as of July 1st.


Most murder tallies don't take in account the greater metropolitain area. I'm pretty sure the 22 murders were for Montreal proper. A region closer to 1.5 million.

[oldpainless]

well, how many tens of millions of guns do we have in this country? And how much poverty and despair? And single or no parent children? Or teenagers having children?...And how criminally underfunded is mental health treatment and awareness? I know...guns don't kill people, people killl people....thank Charleton Heston and the NRA...who knows how many people you pass on a downtown city street are "packing heat". It's revolting.

Funny how many of these top murder cities have strict gun control laws. Not that that has absolutely everything to do with it. Poverty, economic freedom and opportunity have much to do with it also. But still there is a small but important correlation between gun control and higher crime (Chicago anyone?).

[MJB22]

NYC's is going up! Here we go. The 70's is starting to come back to NYC...even though I didn't even exist then.

[Rusty van Reddick]

15 or 16 for first 6 months in Mobile. Lower than last year even though population has increased by 10% due to hurricane. Maybe better economic times (now in Mobile) due bring about less violence, at least the random robbery/killing, etc.


Does the FBI complile metro area statistics for the public access? With the changing dynamic of urban cities around the nation, crime will begin to disperse around the metro area more evenly; this will mean that the city stats will not give a full picture to the area's safety.

No. FBI collects its numbers from municipal police departments and only reports for munipalities. Crime rates are one of those population parameters (unlike population per se, for example) for which it makes more sense to report for individual municipalities (and, as I would prefer, for police divisions or census tracts), because reporting the murder rates for (example) the Gary Indiana MSA is completely misleading for persons who might think that Gary and, say, Munster Ind are equallly "dangerous." They're not.

You CAN get figures for EVERY city in the country, in individually, and compile your own figures for metros- this is what Places Rated does.

I lived in Mobile from 1995 to 1997 (was a prof at USA)- what's happening in Prichard murder-wise? Amazes me how things change from Prichard to Fairhope!

[austin356]

I lived in Mobile from 1995 to 1997 (was a prof at USA)- what's happening in Prichard murder-wise? Amazes me how things change from Prichard to Fairhope!


Prichard bottomed several years ago, and has since seen its violent crime come down; to less than a handful of killings last year. But the city finances are still sooo bad, even after they got their bankruptcy cleared up.

For those of you that dont know Prichard is a small municipalitiy (3x,000) a couple miles north of downtown Mobile. It was first settled by freed African American slaves in the 19th century. Today Prichard is one of the most poorest cities in the nation but has since annexed large areas of rural land north west of town which is developing and will help the "city" residents gain a tax base to provide services, which are very poor, due to chronic underfunding.

some relatively positive things about prichard:
-Everyone should hope for suburban growth for this desperate town; growth in the outlaying areas appears to be the only way to stimulate enough of a tax base to pay police officers to keep the crime down in the city.
-School system is not funded or controlled by this corrupt and poor local government; but instead by the county government which is very wealthy (relative terms) and free of most wrongdoing.
-The employment base cannot be good at all but, since the city touches Mobile, and has bus transit to Mobile there is no reason for someone to say "cant work; no jobs" but jobs are plentiful in the immediate area.

[Shasta]

As of this morning, Boston is up to 43.

Violence is returning after several years of declining numbers. Not sure what is going on this summer, but hearing gunshots in the South End isn't to uncommon now. Reminds me of when I first moved here in the 90s.

[begratto]

Montreal (a region of 3.6M people) had... 22 murders as of July 1st.


Most murder tallies don't take in account the greater metropolitain area. I'm pretty sure the 22 murders were for Montreal proper. A region closer to 1.5 million.

No, the 22 were for the entire metropolitan region, i.e. 3.6M people.

[Nutterbug]

As of May 14th, according to http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=2060029&postcount=160

Vancouver | 8

[tech12]

San Francisco now has 46 homicides, 5 higher than the same time last year.

Oakland is doing really bad though, with 71 murders as of July 11th, 30 higher than for the same time last year. Between the 11th and now there have been 4 more murders, bringing the total to 75. If homicides continue at that rate, Oakland's murders for 2006 will be on par with the numbers for the early 90's.

Then there's Richmond, which i can only guess has had at least 20-30 murders so far this year. Last year it had 40 total, and it has a population of only 100,000.

edit:just found out Richmond has had 22 murders, compared to 19 at this time last year.

[oshkeoto]

"As of this morning, Boston is up to 43."

That's terrible for Boston, isn't it? It's between a fourth and a fifth the size of Chicago, so those numbers are approaching ours...

[TexasBoi]

Then there's Richmond, which i can only guess has had at least 20-30 murders so far this year. Last year it had 40 total, and it has a population of only 100,000.

Wussup with cities named Richmond in America? At least the most known cities(CA and VA) with that name are pretty violent. I've heard stories about Richmond from people up here in NOVA and when I visited the city, I can see it has it's areas but it looks like a nice city.

[cornholio]

This is kind of sad, looking at these stats you would think America is more like Iraq than a western country. What do you guys do down there, run around and atack each other all day like packs of wild animals:)
But seriously these numbers are insane, no Canadain cities would even come close to any of the American cities, and as far as I know no European cities would come close either.

What do you people think the cause of all this violence is, I mean it cant be all multicultureism since Canada is much more multicultural. You cant blame it on different ethnic backgrounds since its you have cities such as London, Toronto etc. that are very similiar mixes to most American cities. So what can it be, American culture is the only thing I could think of, or maybe everyone down there isnt praying hard enought(doubt thats the problem).

Botom line is there is a problem in Americas society that should be fixed because something is clearly failing.

[tech12]

^^I'm no expert on the matter, but put simply, i'd say the cause is poverty.

The poor in America are almost always concentrated in certain neighborhoods/towns/housing projects, etc., that are often overlooked or ignored by the authorities and rest of the population. Add a poor education in with the lack of money, and a sense of hopelessness, and you get lots of people commiting crime to get by, and joining gangs and such, both for protection, and a sense of family. Then you also have all the drugs in the mix, a distrust of authorities, and a history of racism(which still continues). Most of the violence in America involves poor people caught up in drugs and gangs. With all the different factors in it, it's grown into a sort of endless self-repeating cycle.

There's probably deeper stuff to it, but that seems to be the basic Idea to me.

[Canuck]

City of Toronto (2.5 million) has 41 thus far.

[volguus zildrohar]

Philadelphia: 222 as of 10PM EST.

America's most dangerous city across the river from the new murder capital of the country.

But we've got great new condos! Bring the kids and check 'em out!

[Shasta]

43 is very bad for Boston. Over the last few years, we've gotten very spoiled with declining crime/murder rates.

The latest murder (last saturday night) was totally bizarre. A 20 year old woman went to her brother's memorial site. He had been killed four years earlier by gun violence. Well, she was shot and killed in the EXACT same spot. No suspects as of yet and no motive either...

[EastSideHBG]

Philadelphia: 222 as of 10PM EST.

America's most dangerous city across the river from the new murder capital of the country.

But we've got great new condos! Bring the kids and check 'em out!
U G H! :drowning:

[jcchii]

another factor is medical advancements and better emergency response. A lot of people who are shot and saved on the table at stroger hospital in chicago would have been deaths in the 70s-80s

[dfane]

I hate to say, "I told you so!", but Philly had 8 more already, bringing the total up to 220!!!!!!!

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/15100211.htm


222 now as of last night. It is getting real bad in certain areas. I guess the summer makes the natives restless. Philadelphia is definitely the tale of 2 cities right now.

[dfane]

^^I'm no expert on the matter, but put simply, i'd say the cause is poverty.

The poor in America are almost always concentrated in certain neighborhoods/towns/housing projects, etc., that are often overlooked or ignored by the authorities and rest of the population. Add a poor education in with the lack of money, and a sense of hopelessness, and you get lots of people commiting crime to get by, and joining gangs and such, both for protection, and a sense of family. Then you also have all the drugs in the mix, a distrust of authorities, and a history of racism(which still continues). Most of the violence in America involves poor people caught up in drugs and gangs. With all the different factors in it, it's grown into a sort of endless self-repeating cycle.

There's probably deeper stuff to it, but that seems to be the basic Idea to me.

I totally disagree with you. This is a culture thing and partly a race thing. There are some really pretty poor white neighborhoods in Philly that have the same income and compete for the same jobs, but the crime is nowhere near the rate as it is when the neighborhoods are black. I know it sounds racist and not politically correct in this day and age, but just look at the shirts that are being sold in these communities (dont snitch or kill cops and drug shirts) then they are inundated with MTV and the gang movies that promote murder and getting yours (and sometimes after a 2 hour murder fest they say at the end PEACE). It starts with the families that are having kids out of wedlock and making excuese and blaming everyone else for their problems and supporting the same politicians who tell them things are going to change but never do.

it is just not stereotypes and we all know stereotypes are created with legitimate reason. just like the Italian stereotype and me being Italian there is alot of truth to the sterotype. Alot of the people I grew up with or know are in some way and some points connected to illegal activities (not all). And NO I am not calling them mobsters but we know who this people are to certain extent and allow it to a certain extent, so there for the sterotype isnt just a sterotype.

[dfane]

This is kind of sad, looking at these stats you would think America is more like Iraq than a western country. What do you guys do down there, run around and atack each other all day like packs of wild animals:)
But seriously these numbers are insane, no Canadain cities would even come close to any of the American cities, and as far as I know no European cities would come close either.

What do you people think the cause of all this violence is, I mean it cant be all multicultureism since Canada is much more multicultural. You cant blame it on different ethnic backgrounds since its you have cities such as London, Toronto etc. that are very similiar mixes to most American cities. So what can it be, American culture is the only thing I could think of, or maybe everyone down there isnt praying hard enought(doubt thats the problem).

Botom line is there is a problem in Americas society that should be fixed because something is clearly failing.

Well it is a mixture of alot of things, but you starting to see cities like London and Paris become like America. It is definitely a culture thing though. The murders are mainly happening in ethnic (Black and Hispanic) neighborhood where killing is glorified and a sign of respect. I posted sort of the same thing in my previous post on here already. But yea Canada and parts of Europe have culture areas but not like some of the American cities (this is the same in Africa and Brazil in particular) where you can have miles and mile of ghetto and the people running these wards allow and for the most part blame everyone else for their problems.

[Nutterbug]

I totally disagree with you. This is a culture thing and partly a race thing. There are some really pretty poor white neighborhoods in Philly that have the same income and compete for the same jobs, but the crime is nowhere near the rate as it is when the neighborhoods are black. I know it sounds racist and not politically correct in this day and age, but just look at the shirts that are being sold in these communities (dont snitch or kill cops and drug shirts) then they are inundated with MTV and the gang movies that promote murder and getting yours (and sometimes after a 2 hour murder fest they say at the end PEACE). It starts with the families that are having kids out of wedlock and making excuese and blaming everyone else for their problems and supporting the same politicians who tell them things are going to change but never do.

it is just not stereotypes and we all know stereotypes are created with legitimate reason. just like the Italian stereotype and me being Italian there is alot of truth to the sterotype. Alot of the people I grew up with or know are in some way and some points connected to illegal activities (not all). And NO I am not calling them mobsters but we know who this people are to certain extent and allow it to a certain extent, so there for the sterotype isnt just a sterotype.

DON'T GO THERE!

Some lines of thought are forbidden in this politically correct cultural climate of ours, even if it has some plausibility and semblance of truth to them. Society these days would rather have everybody accept certain beliefs without question and fall in line into a certain school of thought than analyze the situation from all possible angles and get right down to the truth of the matter. Thinking outside of the box and analyzing and theorizing about the differences between the races is off limits!

I say this so that you don't get this thread closed and deleted.

[LoKKiTo]

Orlando almost broke their record so far this year. Just three short of a 1982 record.

NYC is at 278 murders citywide.

In NYC the majority of murders occur in the Bronx, Brooklyn North, Queens South, and Uptown Manhattan. The tourist areas are always pretty quiet crime was in comparison, always have been really.

There were two seperate police shootings in Brooklyn North last night. Two cops in East Flatbush were jumped and beaten with a Razor scooter, a cop fired hitting the perp. The neighborhood got pretty out of hand after the shooting, stating the cops are "trigger happy". The second was a perp in Marcy Projects/Bed-Stuy section of BK, shot in the leg. Teen with a gun.

The day before 3 cops were shot and one bitten as they chased a perp through a Bronx tenement building in Mott Haven. They shot each other trying to kill a loose 130lb pitbull. The perp was later arrested.

Also this week a cop fired at a man trying to steal a car in Queens. Perp lived as usual.

A few crimes I remember on the news in NYC recently, last 2 weeks:

-3 shot outside a Queens nightclub over a double parking.
-An 11 y/o girl shot dead in a drive-by shooting in Corona, Queens. Brother was the target.
-A broad daylight afternoon shootout resulting in a homicide in the Soundview section of the Bronx.
-4 shot during a street corner shootout in the Soundview section of the Bronx, followed by another homicide in the area later the same day.
-3 shot during a home invasion in the Soundview section of the Bronx.
-A double shooting/homicide in the Longwood section of the Bronx.
-Upcoming rapper shot dead in the Longwood section of the Bronx, second man shot but lives.
-Cop shot a man trying to carjack him in the North Bronx. Shot him in the head.
-Grandmother killed in the North Bronx.
-Two seperate homcides the same night in Brownsville BK.
-Two killed in East NY hit.
-Man sprays two guys for loitering in front of his house in University Heights, Bronx.
-Women hit by stray bullet during police shootout in Harlem.
-Cop slashed in Bed-stuy BK.
-In Bed-stuy man kills his girlfriend, then her son kills him.
-College kid shot dead in drive-by shooting in Brooklyn.
-Women killed in Coney Island. Left in stairway of housing project.
-Numorous other shootings and homicides across the city...

The gun play has been intense this summer. Across the nation and in this city. A lot killed over petty disputes. Dumb shit.

another factor is medical advancements and better emergency response. A lot of people who are shot and saved on the table at stroger hospital in chicago would have been deaths in the 70s-80s

Very true.

[totheskies]

And you wonder why people move to the nice, quiet suburbs with the gated communities and five star schools.

[EastSideHBG]

Harrisburg is also having a huge problem with shootings again this summer. And FYI the pop. of HBG is barely 49,000 and they had 13 homicides last year! :NO:

Anyway, maybe this technology will work out and cities like Philadelphia can benefit also...we hope...


DA seeks sensors to zero in on shootings

Devices pinpointing location would help Harrisburg police respond quickly, he says

Tuesday, July 25, 2006
BY JACK SHERZER
Of The Patriot-News

A shot rings out on a city street.

Within seconds, acoustic sensors mounted on utility polls narrow the location to within 10 feet. Dispatchers see it on an electronic map and guide police to the scene.

The new tool that allows police to get to crime scenes faster is being used in East Orange, N.J., Chicago, Minneapolis, Charleston, S.C., and other cities nationwide.

Harrisburg might be the first in Pennsylvania to get the sensors.

The Dauphin County district attorney's office has a $40,000 state grant and is working on getting a federal grant to cover the rest of the $150,000 system that would be installed in a section of Harrisburg's south Allison Hill neighborhood.

"I'm sick of individuals carrying guns like most people carry a wallet. We're punishing offenders that are using guns illegally, but we're also trying to do things to prevent gun violence," said county District Attorney Edward M. Marsico Jr.

"It will enable the police to be dispatched and respond almost immediately when a shot is fired," he said.

That has been the case in Charleston, according to Capt. Gary Tillman of that city's police investigative division. The system has been in place there about three years.

"Without a doubt it is helping us on a response time," he said. "We haven't made as many arrests as we had hoped for as far as apprehending individuals with guns on the scene, but at least in homicides that happen within the target area, the system gives us an absolute time of death and provides the number of shots fired."

By identifying the shooting area, he said, the sensor also helps police know where to look for evidence, such as shell casings.

Marsico has been pursuing money for the system since learning about it a year ago. His office already cooperates with federal authorities with the Weed and Seed program that covers about 20 blocks in Allison Hill. As part of that program, offenders are prosecuted by the federal government, which has a five-year mandatory prison sentence for gun crimes.

Marsico said his office averages more than 200 weapons cases a year.

The estimated $150,000 cost for the sensor system includes installation and operation for a year. Marsico said he is confident he'll be able to get grants to cover annual costs, which one vendor estimated at about 15 percent of the system's initial cost, or just under $23,000.

Some areas combine cameras with the acoustical sensors. Marsico said his office is looking only at the acoustical system.

George A. Orrison IV, director of security technologies marketing for Planning Systems Inc. of Reston, Va., the vendor Dauphin County is dealing with, said its system has a 95 percent accuracy rate in detecting gunshots as opposed to other noises.

"The gist of it is, if you've ever been in an urban environment and heard a gunshot go off, it's hard for the human ear to decipher exactly where it came from," Orrison said. "This does it quickly and precisely, so dispatch knows virtually immediately where to send police."

While some gunshot sensor systems record the sounds, Orrison said his sensors have computers analyze the sound and give that information to police. The system does not record the sound, so there isn't any question of potential privacy violations.

Officials of the American Civil Liberties Union in Pennsylvania said they were unfamiliar with the technology, but said they have concerns about the use of cameras and other surveillance devices.

"If it is truly just a sensor device and not recording anything, then I'm a lot less concerned about its infringement of the rights of people in that neighborhood," said Mary Catherine Roper, an ACLU staff attorney in Philadelphia.

Marsico said he plans to publicize the system widely as a deterrent.

While police in other cities debated whether criminals pay attention to such publicity, Andrew DiElmo, a detective for the East Orange, N.J. police, said over the past year, crime has decreased in the area where the system is in use. East Orange is using sensors and cameras provided by Planning Systems, and publicized the use of both.

"It has reduced crime," DiElmo said. "We've only had one or two shootings in the [targeted] area the entire time, and officers either made arrests or were able to find ballistic evidence."

http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/115379882077660.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

[tech12]

I totally disagree with you. This is a culture thing and partly a race thing. There are some really pretty poor white neighborhoods in Philly that have the same income and compete for the same jobs, but the crime is nowhere near the rate as it is when the neighborhoods are black. I know it sounds racist and not politically correct in this day and age, but just look at the shirts that are being sold in these communities (dont snitch or kill cops and drug shirts) then they are inundated with MTV and the gang movies that promote murder and getting yours (and sometimes after a 2 hour murder fest they say at the end PEACE). It starts with the families that are having kids out of wedlock and making excuese and blaming everyone else for their problems and supporting the same politicians who tell them things are going to change but never do.

it is just not stereotypes and we all know stereotypes are created with legitimate reason. just like the Italian stereotype and me being Italian there is alot of truth to the sterotype. Alot of the people I grew up with or know are in some way and some points connected to illegal activities (not all). And NO I am not calling them mobsters but we know who this people are to certain extent and allow it to a certain extent, so there for the sterotype isnt just a sterotype.

You know, the culture is something that I completely forgot to add to my post. I definetely agree it has a part to play in the crime rate, but it would be stupid to think that it's the root problem.

In addition to what you said, I'd say alot of violence can be attributed to kids trying to live up to their older gangbanger/criminal/whatever idols, and trying to prove to each other that they're hard.

[Sirus]

Two more on Minneapolis' North side last night making it 38 for the entire city and 22 just in North Minneapolis.

[harls]

10 for Ottawa. think 17 for the metro area.

[Wheelingman04]

I am so sick of all of this terrible crime in America. Why the hell are we rebuilding Iraq when our cities are crime havens and falling apart.:(

[Nutterbug]

I am so sick of all of this terrible crime in America. Why the hell are we rebuilding Iraq when our cities are crime havens and falling apart.:(

Because the parts of these cities that are the most affected are of no financial interest to influential people that have a hand in government.

[blade_bltz]

As of this morning, Boston is up to 43.

Violence is returning after several years of declining numbers. Not sure what is going on this summer, but hearing gunshots in the South End isn't to uncommon now. Reminds me of when I first moved here in the 90s.

Yeah, and nonfatal shootings are way up. Younger and younger teens are picking up guns and shooting at each other.

[ArchMadness]

Two more on Minneapolis' North side last night making it 38 for the entire city and 22 just in North Minneapolis.

38 as of now compared to 32 this time last year.

http://www.startribune.com/467/story/573001.html

[urbanflyer]

And you wonder why people move to the nice, quiet suburbs with the gated communities and five star schools

Fuck that. Other countries are even better :frog:

[neuhickman79]

And you wonder why people move to the nice, quiet suburbs with the gated communities and five star schools

Fuck that. Other countries are even better :frog:
Okay...at least in other countries freedom means really being free...not what the Bible says is right!

[tech12]

You know there are lots of problems in the US when stuff like this happens at a crime scene...the story of SF's 46th homicide:

Bizarre face-off reported in S.F.
Police say mob kept them away from victim of shooting
- Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 26, 2006



It started out as a call about an early morning shooting in San Francisco's Western Addition, nothing too out-of-the-ordinary for an often-troubled neighborhood.

But after that, there was nothing routine about what happened.

Police say a mob prevented officers and paramedics from helping a fatally wounded man -- even engaging in a tug-of-war for his body at one point. Residents in the neighborhood deny they got in the way, but they say they were angry because officers were doing nothing for the victim and appeared to be in no hurry to summon help.

The victim, 23-year-old John Brown, whose family lives in the Western Addition, was found under a truck at 2:40 a.m. Saturday at Larch Way near Laguna Street. He had been shot several times and, police said, was motionless and bleeding heavily.

The first officers who responded said they encountered a hostile crowd of as many as 40 people on the one-way street and that some of them prevented help from getting to Brown.

"It's one of the worst (situations) I've seen,'' said Capt. Kevin Dillon of Northern Station, who said he based his conclusions on his officers' accounts of what happened.

The crowd pushed one officer back when he tried to feel Brown's pulse, Dillon said. When paramedics arrived, some in the crowd grabbed Brown's legs and tried to drag him away, the officer said in his incident report.

Eventually, more than a dozen officers were on the scene trying to control the crowd. Continuous threats were coming from bystanders, Dillon said. Paramedics finally were able to load Brown into an ambulance, but officers first "had to hold the crowd back to make a path," the captain said.

No officers were hurt, and it's difficult to tell whether the delay made any difference in efforts to save Brown's life, Dillon said. Brown was declared dead at the scene at 2:50 a.m.

Sgt. Mikail Ali of the gang task force, who reviewed the police report, said he was dumbfounded by the crowd's response.

"Here the officers were there to help this guy when he was shot,'' he said. "The officers went to render aid, and (people in the crowd) are pulling at the officers, creating skirmish lines and not allowing the officers to get to him.

"It's insanity," he said. "It doesn't make any sense.''

Several Larch Way residents interviewed, however, said it was the officers who had provoked an angry response from the crowd. They accused authorities of misrepresenting what happened.

Robert Williams, who had been staying with family members on Larch Way, called the police version of events bogus and said officers acted insensitively. He said one of the first officers on the scene told bystanders, "That's one for that side, zero for you.''

Williams said no one tried to grab Brown.

"Everybody was scared to touch him," Williams said. "Everybody is scared of the Police Department. There is no way anybody would get in their way.''

He said he and other residents had been angered by what appeared to be a delay in getting medical treatment for Brown.

Otis Harris, who lives on Larch Way, said it took an ambulance nearly 10 minutes to arrive from the time shots were fired. Fire Department officials said they were summoned at 2:45 a.m. and arrived two minutes later.

During the minutes before the ambulance got there, officers stood around and mingled, looking like "they were waiting for the guy to die before they get some help to him,'' Harris said.

"When some of the residents did try to get him from under there, the police told them they were messing with the crime scene," Harris said. "That got people upset -- they didn't try to do anything. When somebody did try to do something, they wanted to turn it into something else.''

Harris said neighbors' anger "really boiled over after the ambulance got there and they had seen he was dead, basically. Then, all of a sudden, (police) started moving fast. They threw him in the back of the ambulance. Nobody administered him CPR, they just put him back in and basically were trying to get him out of there."

The feeling of the community, he said, was that, "if somebody needs to get to the hospital, we need to try to get them there ourselves. We just have to protect ourselves in this alleyway.''

Harris' wife, Rochelle Terrell, conceded that "there were a lot of harsh words being said to the police officer." But she added, "People wanted to know, where is the ambulance? It looked like they would just stay there and let the man die.

"People get emotional about that. I guess they figure they will try to save the boy's life.''

Assistant Fire Chief Johnny Lo said he had spoken to the supervisor on the fire engine that responded to the call. "When he got there, there was a big crowd already there, and they were screaming racial slurs at the cops,'' Lo said.

The first police at the scene told the fire crew that Brown was dead, and paramedics who examined him agreed, Lo said.

Normally, the paramedics would have left Brown's body there while homicide investigators went over the scene for clues, Lo said. But in this case, "they felt the urgency to get the hell out of there" and take the body with them, he said. "They felt unsafe, totally unsafe."

The crowd accused firefighters of arriving late "because it was the ghetto," Lo said. "But we got there in 2 minutes and 16 seconds.''

The neighborhood is the one where Cammerin Boyd, an attempted-kidnapping suspect who lived in Oakland, was shot to death by police after a chase in May 2004. Several residents at the time said Boyd had his hands up, trying to surrender; police maintained he appeared to be reaching for a gun.

Williams discounted any ill will over that shooting as a factor in the events of Saturday morning. "Cammerin Boyd was more of an isolated incident. This was more personal,'' he said, noting that a lot of the residents knew Brown, but few knew Boyd.

Terrell said the larger problem is the crime racking the community and residents' sense that no one cares about it. Brown was the fifth person to be killed this year in the Western Addition out of 46 homicides citywide. No one has been arrested in his death.

"The police come through here on a daily basis," Terrell said. "We don't feel safe here. Our children don't feel safe here. The Police Department is supposed to serve and protect us. We don't feel we are protected. I can't put that all on the Police Department. It's just so scary to be living here.''

Gary Delagnes, head of the police officers union, acknowledged a tremendous disconnect between some people in the community and the police. He said many residents want more help from police. But he also said it wouldn't surprise him if there were people who would block police from helping a wounded man.

"In these high-crime areas, people have to realize that the cops are not the problem," Delagnes said. "These areas need to take a look at themselves and not be pointing fingers at the Police Department to solve their problems.''

Supervisor Ross Mirkarimi, who represents the Western Addition and has been a vocal critic of the Police Department, said the Boyd shooting and a string of killings this year and last, with few arrests, had created tensions.

"This area is an epicenter where trust runs thin between community and police,'' Mirkarimi said. "There is absolutely no excuse for interrupting the police if they are trying to render aid. But people are upset, and I don't think we can necessarily rationalize how it avails itself.''

E-mail Jaxon Van Derbeken at jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com.

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URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/26/MNG7TK5DRE1.DTL



And on another note, an SF police officer was killed today when his car was hit by a speeding van carrying 4 robbery suspects. It's the third officer death since 2004. The second was when an officer died of a heart attack during training, and the first was when a plainclothes officer was gunned down by a man with an AK-47.

[EastSideHBG]

I say our cities should launch a war against these animals. I'm not joking either. The good people in the neighborhood are living in fear thanks to these monsters...how much should we as a society take?!? The, "Oh they are just poor people and they just don't know any better!" excuse is total, TOTAL crap. I say it's time to take out the garbage and let's take our cities back!!! The urban areas in the US will NEVER come back as long as trash like this is allowed to roam free...

[Stratosphere 2020]

This is kind of sad, looking at these stats you would think America is more like Iraq than a western country. What do you guys do down there, run around and atack each other all day like packs of wild animals:)
But seriously these numbers are insane, no Canadain cities would even come close to any of the American cities, and as far as I know no European cities would come close either.

What do you people think the cause of all this violence is, I mean it cant be all multicultureism since Canada is much more multicultural. You cant blame it on different ethnic backgrounds since its you have cities such as London, Toronto etc. that are very similiar mixes to most American cities. So what can it be, American culture is the only thing I could think of, or maybe everyone down there isnt praying hard enought(doubt thats the problem).

Botom line is there is a problem in Americas society that should be fixed because something is clearly failing.

It has to do much with America's love affair with guns and the amount of room thee is on the right to protect yourself which differs per state (law). I believe in Florida you are allowed to shoot a person if he/or is caught robbing or committing an assault on your property

On the other hand European punishment for crimes are overall far less severe than that of the U.S.

For killing a person in The Netherlands you may get on average 15 years and if you are lucky 10 years plus forced treament if you are mental insane. There is barely life sentence here and no death penalty.

[SHiRO]

For killing a person in The Netherlands you may get on average 15 years and if you are lucky 10 years plus forced treament if you are mental insane. There is barely life sentence here and no death penalty.
I believe that is a slight misrepresentation of the facts. I would like to see a source for that "average of 15 years" figure. I would believe it if it included manslaughter. The biggest problem I have with your post is on the forced treatment part (TBS in Dutch). it is save to say that if you aretruely criminally insane that TBS effectively keeps you out of society. It's a de facto life sentence. Hardly lucky.

Also, there are more life sentences in NL then you probably think. At least 2 to 5 a year. And life sentence really does mean life sentence and not "20 years" as thought many times. Noone ever got out on a life sentence in NL after 1946.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_tot_levenslang_veroordeelden_in_Nederland

[Segun]

I say our cities should launch a war against these animals. I'm not joking either. The good people in the neighborhood are living in fear thanks to these monsters...how much should we as a society take?!? The, "Oh they are just poor people and they just don't know any better!" excuse is total, TOTAL crap. I say it's time to take out the garbage and let's take our cities back!!! The urban areas in the US will NEVER come back as long as trash like this is allowed to roam free...

they too busy with other shit...

You're talking about a country thats riding for they set in another country, trying to hold down corners in the middle east to re-up on that fresh money-making product(Oil), while the HNIC is throwing his weight around and runnin a stop snitching campaign for those that find out he's breakin the rules. The government done out-streeted the streets nowadays. Shit, money making is the priority of the US of A. They should make "Everyday I'm hustlin, hustlin" the national theme song.

[EastSideHBG]

they too busy with other shit...

You're talking about a country thats riding for they set in another country, trying to hold down corners in the middle east to re-up on that fresh money-making product(Oil), while the HNIC is throwing his weight around and runnin a stop snitching campaign for those that find out he's breakin the rules. The government done out-streeted the streets nowadays. Shit, money making is the priority of the US of A. They should make "Everyday I'm hustlin, hustlin" the national theme song.
Very sad but so darn true! I am sick of this country...I am sick of this world...

:no:

[J. Will]

Most of those numbers are scary, no matter how few of the murders are random.

[tech12]

Seattle is now at 17.

[pwright1]

Wow 2006 is more than half over and still only 17 in Seattle.

[DrJoe]

^ Is that city or metro?

[LMich]

I guess we should rename this the "your cities daily/weekly murder count."

[malek]

Montreal | 32 (metro)


i wonder where you got that....

[TomAuch]

Sorry James Bond Agent. Unfortunately there are enough fucked up people in Seattle to spread bad news about an otherwise safe and friendly city:( :hell: :( :hell::(
....Also, if this thread turns into another race flame thread, I want it to be locked. The point of the thread is to talk about Seattle and crime.
----------------------------------------------------------------
9 killed in Seattle area in as many days By GENE JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 38 minutes ago


A 3-year-old boy, his throat slit, dies along with his brother, mother and aunt while his father is serving in Iraq. Hikers find a librarian and her daughter shot to death along a trail. A group of young men are fired on when they pull their car into a driveway.

The crimes left nine people dead in as many days, stunning this generally peaceful region. Law enforcement officials said they couldn't recall a similar string of multiple homicides in the Seattle area.

"What's really strange about them, besides the quantity, is that every one of these cases is very bizarre," King County Sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said. "We just don't have that."

The Seattle area is no stranger to horrific crimes — serial killers Gary Ridgway and Ted Bundy, for example, and the unsolved assassination of federal prosecutor Tom Wales in 2001.

But Seattle's murder rate is low for a city of nearly 600,000. There were 24 killings in 2004 and 25 last year. Boston, of comparable size, had 61 in 2004 and 73 last year.

Seattle police spokesman Rich Pruitt noted that none of the three mass killings this month took place within city limits, though all were near. Still, Seattle itself has had 17 killings already this year — more than a third of them from one attack in March, when a man shot and killed six people at a rave after-party in the worst mass killing the city had seen in decades.

The string of recent crimes in the surrounding area began July 11, when hikers found Seattle librarian Mary Cooper, 56, and her daughter, Susanna Stodden, 27, shot to death about three miles up a popular Mount Pilchuck trail 50 miles northeast of the city. No arrests have been made, and detectives have revealed little about their investigation.

Then, on July 17, fire investigators in the eastern suburb of Kirkland found the family of National Guard Sgt. Leonid Milkin dead in a burned-out home. Investigators determined gasoline had been used to start the fire.

Witness accounts led them to a next-door neighbor, who was charged Monday with four counts of aggravated first-degree murder. Charging papers said the neighbor, Conner Michael Schierman, 24, admitted that he woke up in the victims' home covered in blood following an alcoholic blackout and didn't remember what had happened.

Last Thursday, just south of the city limits, five young people were asked to leave a bowling alley and casino because two were underage. As they left, they argued with people who had been smoking outside a nearby home, police said. They pulled their car into the driveway to continue the argument, and two men at the home — Dimitri Sidorchuk, 23, and William Shane Belk — fired dozens of shots into the vehicle, court documents said. Of the five unarmed people in the car, two were killed and three injured.

One of Sidorchuk's stray bullets struck Belk, who also died. Sheriff's deputies said they later found a marijuana-growing operation at the home. Sidorchuk was charged Tuesday with two counts of second-degree murder, one of first-degree manslaughter and three counts of first-degree assault.

"These crimes are just gruesome," said Doug Canfield of Mountaineers Books in Seattle, who helped arrange a $6,000 reward for information in the trail killings. "We're just hoping this crime will be solved so people can head out to the trails again with a feeling of safety."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060727/ap_on_re_us/seattle_killings

[dfane]

You know, the culture is something that I completely forgot to add to my post. I definetely agree it has a part to play in the crime rate, but it would be stupid to think that it's the root problem.

In addition to what you said, I'd say alot of violence can be attributed to kids trying to live up to their older gangbanger/criminal/whatever idols, and trying to prove to each other that they're hard.


yes you are right this poor kids are inundated with garbage and hate all day long. Hey I know there are bad people of all races etc, but this has been a problem for about 40-50 years since the civil right movement.

Most young black kids llok up to the wrong people and you aint hard until you kill a person, and this problem is coming to Europe and eventually Canada I am sure Torontos murder rate is up from 20 years or so ago.

[Urbanguy]

I just read about this on yahoo too. What a shocker especially after we were just talking about the low amount of murders this year in that city just recently. :(

[dfane]

It has to do much with America's love affair with guns and the amount of room thee is on the right to protect yourself which differs per state (law). I believe in Florida you are allowed to shoot a person if he/or is caught robbing or committing an assault on your property

On the other hand European punishment for crimes are overall far less severe than that of the U.S.

For killing a person in The Netherlands you may get on average 15 years and if you are lucky 10 years plus forced treament if you are mental insane. There is barely life sentence here and no death penalty.

oh ok here we go blaming law abiding citizens for the murder problem in America by a Michael Moore believer. The supposed hick gun fanatics arent the ones killing people. It is mainly black and hispanic kids that nned to kill or they arent considered men. They have horrible role models.

This problem is coming to the Netherlands too once the Muslims and Africans take over large sections and I know it is already happening there.

btw the are laws maybe softer then Europe when you truly break it down. The average killer usually only ends up doing 15 years. And the death penalty isnt a true deterrent since 95% of the people on death row dont get executed some even get released.

[Hoodrat]

Blame it on the heat...I dunno.

Seattle's a big city now....y'all need to get used to it.

Plus, (and this is from personal experience) all the seriously crazy mofo's seem to congregate here like flies on shit.

[seaskyfan]

I don't see the point of this thread. The other thread didn't compare metropolitan area murder rates, only murder rates within the the city limits. None of these killings happened within the Seattle City Limits.

[hudkina]

I think the point of this thread had something to do with Karma.

[Hoodrat]

I think the point of this thread had something to do with Karma.

for what!

[DrJoe]

yes you are right this poor kids are inundated with garbage and hate all day long. Hey I know there are bad people of all races etc, but this has been a problem for about 40-50 years since the civil right movement.

Most young black kids llok up to the wrong people and you aint hard until you kill a person, and this problem is coming to Europe and eventually Canada I am sure Torontos murder rate is up from 20 years or so ago.

Toronto's murder rate is down from the early 90's where it peaked. Last year there was 78 which was unusually high but it seems to be back to normal this year, on pace for 65 or so. The number of homicides has basically stayed the same as the population has grown.

[hudkina]

For creating the threads saying "Murder was Dead in Seattle" and such.

[LMich]

Merged, as there is no need for two separate posts.

This just shows that predicting murder is a fuzzy science, at the very best, and that a day or week can change everything.

[alex1]

i wonder where you got that....

someone from Montreal posted the number

[miltowng]

64 in Milwaukee so far, compared to 72 last year.