[TbayON]

You're confusing Silver Tree Estates with something else. Silver Tree is northwest of County Park. It is more commonly known as Gemstone Estates, I think, but it appears in planning documents as Silver Tree Estates or Silver Tree Subdivision.

I wasn't talking about Silver Tree, and I realize where that is. I was talking about a development that was planned in the late 80's for the area north of Mountain Rd., South of Hwy. 61 and west of Cypress Cres. Shore Bay Estates is proposing to go ahead with that development now about 25 years later. They want to put in a 70-some lot subdivision that will fill the space between Tuxedo Dr and Mount Forest Blvd.

While on the topic of Silver Tree, I had posted the plans for the next phase of that development a month or two ago. The land was cleared off a while back, but there has been no action since.


I wouldn't be opposed to having the Provincial Government simply move Highway 61's designation to Highway 130. The remaining portion can be a city road, with the province maintaining the Airport to Harbour portion of the expressway as Highway 11B/17B.

I think if you were to see the cost to the city of upgrading the portion of Hwy 61 we are talking about, you may be a little more opposed. Part of the reason the province wants to get rid of it is they don't want to be the ones to have to 4-lane the thing. That would involve a new bridge over the Kam River and another overpass by the airport. Some kind of interchange would also be necessary at Broadway Ave. My point is, even if the province were to upgrade the thing to 4-lanes and then move responsibility for it to the city, the cost to the city for maintenance alone over the long run would be substantial. The city has too much road to take care of as it is now.


I recently though of merging the Lake Superior Place project with the Event Centre, into a single, larger multi-purpose component. By combining the two and throwing in the private interest of the Lake Superior Place group, with the hockey rink component as a smaller part of the project, federal and provincial support is more likely. Throwing in the CLE would make it even more appealing. Of course, once we have that many things going on, the Pool Six site is no longer large enough.

Is Lake Superior Place still even interested in Thunder Bay? They had signed a MOU signed with Nipigon because they got tired of waiting for a response from the city. The city was too busy with their own waterfront project and LSP wasn't a priority at city hall at the time LSP approached Nipigon.

LSP wanted to go on the pool six site as well, while the Events Centre is of course potentially destined for the block where the bus terminal is. I am not sure that the two can actually be lumped into one project, unless you have the project spanning over two different buildings.

I suppose LSP could be lured back to Thunder Bay if the offer is right though. They would be required to locate their facility off the water though if they shared a facility with the events centre. I believe the vision for LSP though was to have an intimate connection with the lake.

While I am rambling on about the events centre, a few new details came out at the open house the other day. It sounds like the airport is officially out as land could only be leased, not purchased outright and the interest just isn't there for building it at the airport location.

The number of seats proposed has fallen from 6500 to 5700. I am not sure why the drop, maybe someone else knows? As well, there is now 300 and some underground parking spots being added to the downtown site from what I understand. Maybe that explains the drop in seat numbers?

[happydays]

There are a few other subdivisions that will be going before council within the next year on the south side of the city this includes land on the corner of Fairview avenue and Arthur street, the next phase of Maplewood Estates, and area behind Lacewood Drive off of 20th sideroad should be opening soon. Does anyone know whats going on in the gravel pit across from Whitewater off HWY 130, it looks like a rough in for a new subdivision has been etched in there aswell. Definitley exciting times on that area of the city!

[TbayON]

Does anyone know whats going on in the gravel pit across from Whitewater off HWY 130, it looks like a rough in for a new subdivision has been etched in there aswell. Definitley exciting times on that area of the city!

If you are referring to the area below, there is a new subdivision going in there as well.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7619/oliposub.jpg

I can't remember any details about it, but it was approved a while ago by Oliver-Paipoonge.

It is exciting times in this area, with lots of development going on and it is positive that Thunder Bay needs more building lots. There needs to be more emphasis placed on development and re-development inside the Thunder Bay Expressway though. These new subdivisions won't contribute as much to the city when compared to improving and developing closer to core areas. Its important that Thunder Bay increases in density to accommodate increasing costs associated with construction and maintenance of infrastructure and providing services to residents.

[greyraven8]

Not sure if this is the right site to ask about Thunder Bay street names, but I think someone hear may know the answer.

Is there any good reason there is both a Gordon Street on one end of town and a Gordon Avenue on the other? Why is there 2 diddly little 1/2 block streets on both sides of town called Lincoln?

Everyone who lives in Thunder Bay is familiar with the major north/south streets having multiple names. Any chance of changing them now seems to get blocked by some city Councillors, and the best they can come up with is some silly "Routes" to go along side these multiple named major streets.

Were the people in charge of changing street names back in 1970 when Port Arthur and Fort William became Thunder Bay smoking something other than cigarettes when deciding these things?
I think they would have been better off starting from scratch in 1970 and renaming all the streets then.

P.S. I hope the Parkdale subdivision doesn't end up with a Street or Avenue named Wolf since there is already a Wolf St. on the reserve, but I am sure it will.

[TbayON]

Having 2 Lincoln Streets and having Gordan Ave. and Gordan St. on separate sides of town is pretty simply a product of the the pre-amalgamation cities of Fort William and Port Arthur naming a few streets similar or the same thing.

There are merits behind resisting changing the names of arterial roads in this city when you think about it. All the businesses along affected routes would be forced to change addresses, signage, advertising, etc. at their own cost, and its a time consuming process. The city would have to change all their road signage, planning maps, hold public meetings and consult and educate their own dept.'s (especially police, fire, ems) on changes etc. It would cost the city quite a lot of money, money which would be better spent repairing the roads themselves. Residents would also be forced to change their addresses and learn the new names.

If they would have wanted the names changed, they should have done it around the period of amalgamation. Because amalgamation was such a huge deal and the long standing Port Arthur-Fort William rivalry, I think the lawmakers and planners of that day didn't want to step on one former cities toes by adopting the other former city's street name for both north and south sides. That is my thoughts on why we kept many street names anyway.

Perhaps a possible solution is giving arterial routes in the city Route numbers. This is common practice in other North American cities. I spent the last summer living and working in Winnipeg, and I found it easier to remember street names as opposed to the numbers that were assigned to the route though. People who have lived there longer than me just spending a summer there referred to the roads but route number though, so maybe it was just me or the limited time I spent there. They also have roads in Winnipeg where the name changes many times along its length, its certainly not a Thunder Bay phenomenon.

And yes, Parkdale is going to have a Wolf Avenue. It will be located north and west of Weiller Blvd., running east-west, in the northern most part of the subdivision currently being opened up.

[vid]

I think if you were to see the cost to the city of upgrading the portion of Hwy 61 we are talking about, you may be a little more opposed.

No, I want the city to take control of it and put maintenance of that road on its own line on tax bills as a nice little "fuck you" to the morons who support suburban sprawl. We should have added a surtax to all properties that were brought into the water service area as a result of Bare Point Expansion as well, sort of an entry-fee for them getting city water. As far as I am concerned, the exurban parts of the city aren't paying enough to compensate for the burden their existence places on the city's infrastructure costs. As you said, just maintaining Highway 61 will take up a significant portion of the tax revenue we get from South Neebing. With very little industry down there, we barely get tax revenue from them as it is. When you consider the final purchase of the land by the Government of Canada from the Fort William band, that whole area is sort of a drain on the whole country, economically speaking. It should never have been developed as anything more than farmland.

Is Lake Superior Place still even interested in Thunder Bay? They had signed a MOU signed with Nipigon because they got tired of waiting for a response from the city. The city was too busy with their own waterfront project and LSP wasn't a priority at city hall at the time LSP approached Nipigon.

The city said they weren't interested in it at the current time. LSP wanted to get it done sooner rather than later so they scaled the project down and approached Nipigon with it. I think they're still willing to work with the city if the city approaches them, but they've stopped wasting their time trying to sell it to the city.

LSP wanted to go on the pool six site as well, while the Events Centre is of course potentially destined for the block where the bus terminal is. I am not sure that the two can actually be lumped into one project, unless you have the project spanning over two different buildings.

Just take the original Lake Superior Place idea and attach a rink and some meeting space to it.

The number of seats proposed has fallen from 6500 to 5700. I am not sure why the drop, maybe someone else knows? As well, there is now 300 and some underground parking spots being added to the downtown site from what I understand. Maybe that explains the drop in seat numbers?

I thought it was going to be under 6,000 the whole time. :shrug: This is just like the Waterfront parking thing. A lot of people were surprised about a year ago that underground parking was going in when I remembered hearing about that when the whole project was first announced.

Is there any good reason there is both a Gordon Street on one end of town and a Gordon Avenue on the other? Why is there 2 diddly little 1/2 block streets on both sides of town called Lincoln?

In some cases, Port Arthur and Fort William purposefully copied each others street names (with different origins attached to them) to make amalgamation more difficult. Both cities had an Arthur Street and that wasn't rectified until 1986 when the entire stretch of road in Port Arthur had its names shifted around.

Everyone who lives in Thunder Bay is familiar with the major north/south streets having multiple names. Any chance of changing them now seems to get blocked by some city Councillors, and the best they can come up with is some silly "Routes" to go along side these multiple named major streets.

(Apologies for how rambling this explanation is. The issue is actually pretty complicated and has a lot of history to it.)

The biggest hurdle to this is the city's addressing system.

In Port Arthur, even numbered lots are facing the lake. In Fort William, even numbered lots are facing away from the lake. That is, I live on Simpson's northbound side and have an even number. The Waterfront bus depot is on the southbound side, and it also has an even number. In addition to that, there is a 100 West Arthur, 100 (East) Arthur (on the island), 100 South Simpson (used to be Shelterhouse), 100 (North) Simpson, 100 Fort William Road, 100 South Water, 100 North Water, 100 South Cumberland and 100 North Cumberland (both on a portion of road parallel to Water), 100 Hodder and possibly a 100 Copenhagen.

The re-addressing of all the businesses on that street would be costly. The costs to Redcliff in re-addressing Intercity Mall alone would likely be a couple million. It's a huge hit to the economy and we can't afford it. I work for a business on Simpson Street and we've got about 2 years worth of business cards. It cost several hundred dollars to have them printed. If the street name changes, we're out several hundred dollars and have thousands of useless business cards.

Now, if you want to get all streets, that would require a complete overhaul of the city's address grid.

In Neebing Township, west of Neebing Road and east of the city limit, the addresses start at 1000 and go up as you get away from the river. This numbering continues into McIntyre Township. It's likely the number system we would use in the city. 40 N Water Street (the bus terminal) would be something like 5400 Whatever Street. In the Sherwood Estates area, numbers actually go up as you head north until you get to about Belrose Road, where they flip direction and start going down as you get away from Dawson, before flipping again and increase from 1000 as you get away from the Kam River. That is how screwed up the addressing system is. And that isn't a post-amalgamation thing. We've been doing it that way the whole time.

Here is something even more fucked up: 1000 N is actually 1.2km south of 1000 S, because the baseline for addresses south of the Kam is based on the northernmost bend in the river within the township, while the baseline for addresses north of the Kam is based on its southernmost bend. So the north numbering system starts at the end of Victor Street and increases as you head north, and the south number system starts at the end of Riverdale Road, over a kilometre north of the end of Victor, and increases as you head south!

In the actual built-up part of the city, Victoria Avenue is the north/south dividing line until Neebing Road, which was Fort William's old western town limit. The east-west divide is a bit trickier. It is along Edward Street, but, instead of making that the zero point, addresses actually count up to 2800 as they get further from the lake, and simply reset to 100 when they reach Edward! The curve in Edward Street causes the grid to warp a little.

Logically, the addressing system would be based on a central East-West axis. William Street, the road that occupies the road allowance between the two townships, would be the most logical point. Harbour Expressway would be the other. Numbers would increase as you moved away from there. This would require a change of every single north-south address in the city. If we increase the numbers as you head away from the lake, heading west, at least 40% of east-west street addresses will require a change.

In short, the address grid is why we cannot give a single name to the streets in this city. Unifying street names for entire stretches of road would be such an expensive and time consuming undertaking, that it is almost ludicrous to consider doing it. The best option is either a route numbering system like Winnipeg, or simply expanding and promoting the route naming system we currently use.

Were the people in charge of changing street names back in 1970 when Port Arthur and Fort William became Thunder Bay smoking something other than cigarettes when deciding these things?
I think they would have been better off starting from scratch in 1970 and renaming all the streets then.

Every street name change required a by-law and a discussion. Even at the time, Thunder Bay had over 800 named streets. We now have over 1,200 named streets. It doesn't look like it when you look at a map, but I took the time to count how many street names were listed in the phone book.

The multiple names for stretches of streets is due to their origins. Fort William Road and Simpson Street have always been connected. The name legally changes at the invisible line where William Street crosses it, but today the city puts that boundary at Northern Avenue, which is entirely within Port Arthur. If you go to William Street east of Simpson, the houses on the same side as the river are actually in Port Arthur, not Fort William. All of the houses along the east-west part of James are in Port Arthur, too. It isn't until you get to the northern edge of the Northwood/Kinsmen playfield that you cross back into what was once Fort William. Con College is entirely located in what was once Port Arthur. The CLE straddled the border of the two cities.

Before Water Street was extended, Fort William curved north by itself and ended at Algoma and John in a 5-way intersection. Simpson Street ended in a T-junction at Victoria before it was connected to Arthur Street in the early 1980s. So, Simpson and Fort William were one street that changed names at the town line. That's logical.

Cumberland Street used to end at Bay Street. Bay Street actually continued a little bit east and Cumberland a little bit south, there was industrial stuff in that area. It's all gone now, Water Street was built on top of the area and CP moved their mainline a bit. Water Street was the next street east of Cumberland and Front Street. It was only a few blocks long, and didn't connect to Cumberland at any point. North of McVicar Creek, it continues on the lake side of the railway. It is sometimes also called Marina Park Drive, and might legally be referred to as Sleeping Giant Parkway now.

As for Hodder Avenue, I'm sure the bend with rock walls was considered distinguishing enough to maintain a different street name as opposed to continuing the North Cumberland Name.

It should be noted that Port Arthur has very few North/South street groupings, and no East/West groups. All streets in Port Arthur are "west" of the lake.

In the East End, North-South streets stay on the Fort William grid, but East-West Streets, including parts of Pacific Avenue west of the CP line, run eastward, against the east-west grid in Fort William. 500 Pacific Avenue should actually be 240 Pacific Avenue. The portion of Pacific Avenue in the East End should simply have its street numbers stretched over a wider area so that it starts at 0 at the lake, just like Arthur Street does on McKellar Island.

P.S. I hope the Parkdale subdivision doesn't end up with a Street or Avenue named Wolf since there is already a Wolf St. on the reserve, but I am sure it will.

Wolf Avenue in Parkdale is a proposed street that heads west from Weiler Boulevard. On the Fort William grid, it lines up with Finlayson.

If things went according to plan in the 1970s, we'd have an east-west street in Fort William called Cameron-Dease-Churchill-Weiler. Fortunately, Chapples Park was saved and the MTO prohibited an intersection at Churchill and the Expressway.

[F. Lionel]

Street Naming in this city could have its own lecture series at the museum - it has its own book. The vast number of streets that have been lost to the train yards and waterfront, not to mention the University and Chapples Park, is crazy. What's interesting is that most of the lost names have never been re-used elsewhere in the city.

One thing missing from this city is proper signage for labelling-naming the various pedestrian malls and connecting paths. These places have actual names but they aren't actually posted for the public. One of the best examples is The Mall in downtown PA. The forthcoming lane between the courthouse and Victoriaville (I think it's to be called Justice Lane or something like that) is another.

Perhaps as the city expands the waterfront trails and other recreational trails signage will be included?

Some of the nameless access streets should have their names restored to them as well such as the power station access off Grenville or the parallel lane between Jean and Algoma above St. John Park.

Sort of related question - the city maintains a list of "acceptable street names" for developers to use. Where can one go to see said list? I remember council discusing it 20 or so years ago (the fear that we would have streets named after colours was a hot topic for editorial letters for a bit) but a quick search of the city's website yields no results for me.

If things went according to plan in the 1970s, we'd have an east-west street in Fort William called Cameron-Dease-Churchill-Weiler. Fortunately, Chapples Park was saved and the MTO prohibited an intersection at Churchill and the Expressway.

If things had gone according to plan there would also be an east-west street on the northside called River-County. Thank goodness the MTO prohibited that intersection as well.

"If Things Had Gone According To Plan" could be the city's motto.

[vid]

Sort of related question - the city maintains a list of "acceptable street names" for developers to use. Where can one go to see said list? I remember council discusing it 20 or so years ago (the fear that we would have streets named after colours was a hot topic for editorial letters for a bit) but a quick search of the city's website yields no results for me.

The city doesn't have a list, they simply have an approval process. A developer chooses the names for the subdivision they're building, and the criteria for approval is approximately:

• Shorts streets should have short names
• Duplication of street names should be avoided, except when the street is a cul-de-sac or crescent branching off a parent street
• Street names should not be too similar to existing street names elsewhere in the city
• All street names in a subdivision should follow a common theme (colleges and universities in Northwood; Southern Ontario counties in County Park; Robin Hood in Sherwood Estates; etc.)

"If Things Had Gone According To Plan" could be the city's motto.

http://i.imgur.com/rfDOM.png

[F. Lionel]

http://i.imgur.com/rfDOM.png

:haha: Thank you sir.

I will be appropriating this for my background immediately.

[TbayON]

The forthcoming lane between the courthouse and Victoriaville (I think it's to be called Justice Lane or something like that) is another.

It is called Justice Lane I am pretty sure, but is that going to be an actual pedestrian only laneway? I was under the impression that there would be a street intended for vehicles and angle parking to help replace spots lost under the building.

The latest Terrace Bay Pulp rumour has an Indian company interested in producing rayon at the facility, with a capital conversion cost of approximately $100 million. Fewer employees are supposedly required. A delegation from China had also visited the facility not long after it was put up for sale. The federal government put money towards finishing environmental work at the mill, so it is likely the place will be sold to someone looking to continue operating it.

The Feds have also launched another round of soliciting applications for the P3 Canada Fund, so its likely we will hear something to do with this and the multiplex. This round is to focus on projects that "promote jobs and stimulate the economic growth, including transportation, waste/wastewater, solid waste disposal and brownfield redevelopment-related projects" says the government. I guess the multiplex can fit in some of those categories. Applications have to be in June 15 and successful applicants are supposed to know by fall.

I think everyone saw this coming:
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/203215/United-front

Good to see the city supporting this cause, even though it is supporting placing the refinery outside the city when the city was in the running. I was fairly certain all along the city knew getting the thing in Greenstone was the best option, since the infrastructure isn't there to get the ore to Thunder Bay. This kind of confirms that, and its nice the city isn't licking its wounds and crying about it not coming here and working with surrounding municipalities and FN's to make something happen. About time NWO started standing up for itself and benefiting more from the billions worth of resources extracted here.

Interesting idea, but I don't think its going anywhere anytime soon:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/story/2012/04/18/tby-grain-elevator-light-up.html

Buchanan has bigger problems to worry about right now than that. In addition, Great West Timber is bankrupt and under the trust of Grant Thornton last I heard. I'm not sure that Buchanan could do anything there at all. I'm not sure how Mr. Bentz dreamed up that Buchanan will do anything with this given the current situation that company is in as well as the land the elevator in on being part of bankruptcy proceedings. In my opinion, the city is better off waiting to see who eventually ends up with the land. Like the former Northern Woods property, there is a ton of potential in the Great West Timber property, both industrially and as parkland. Industrially, the railway is right there and its sitting right on the water. As for parkland, Marina Park is right next door and there is already road access in there.

Bentz has also said he would like to see the Feds funding demolition of some unused grain elevators on the waterfront. Without naming specific sites, its hard to judge his thoughts on this, but I do think you have to be careful. To take down some of the elevators that are falling apart is not a bad idea, but it should probably be limited to buildings with structural problems, those that are past the point of repair, or those that will be torn down to make way for another project beneficial to the city. Its only a matter of time until some of those buildings are retro-fitted for some other use. Sometimes it takes a while, but people typically find use for old structures like this. I doubt the Feds will rush in with money for this purpose anyways, they are kind of short on cash right now and there are better investments to make with their scarce resources.

A couple other happenings around town:

I heard a pretty solid rumour for the reasoning behind the city installing new water lines from the T-Bay Expressway up to Oxford St. along Oliver Rd. Supposedly Pioneer Construction is looking at putting in a concrete plant at their Oliver Rd. yard. Pioneer owns a company called Fisher Wavy, who produces concrete and concrete products and is also from the Sudbury area. There may even been some manufacturing of concrete panels and precast products involved in this, in addition to making ready-mix concrete for the local market.

Carlo's Hair Design has moved from inside the Landmark Hotel on Dawson Rd. across the parking lot to the former Robin's Donuts location at the corner of Dawson Rd and East Ave near the TD Bank, putting that empty building back to use.

Work is now resuming at the TBCC Condo project after the accident last week. The MOL allowed work to go ahead again after all work orders were complied with.

[tjernobyl]

Perhaps a possible solution is giving arterial routes in the city Route numbers. This is common practice in other North American cities. I spent the last summer living and working in Winnipeg, and I found it easier to remember street names as opposed to the numbers that were assigned to the route though. People who have lived there longer than me just spending a summer there referred to the roads but route number though, so maybe it was just me or the limited time I spent there. They also have roads in Winnipeg where the name changes many times along its length, its certainly not a Thunder Bay phenomenon.

The routes have symbols; that's the reason you see signs with pictures of boats along the Fort William Road corridor. They aren't well publicized at all; I wondered about them for years before I finally found out.

And yes, Parkdale is going to have a Wolf Avenue. It will be located north and west of Weiller Blvd., running east-west, in the northern most part of the subdivision currently being opened up.

The City's naming policy has a list of agencies to consult before approving a name. I don't think any of them really have a significant presence on the reserve, so I can imagine this getting missed.

In some cases, Port Arthur and Fort William purposefully copied each others street names (with different origins attached to them) to make amalgamation more difficult. Both cities had an Arthur Street and that wasn't rectified until 1986 when the entire stretch of road in Port Arthur had its names shifted around.

Fort William's Arthur Street was named after Arthur Vickers, Arthur Square was named after the Arthur family who owned the New Ontario hotel, and Port Arthur was named after Prince Arthur. For extra confusion value, I think the Prince Arthur Hotel might have been named after a different Prince Arthur.

Before Water Street was extended, Fort William curved north by itself and ended at Algoma and John in a 5-way intersection. Simpson Street ended in a T-junction at Victoria before it was connected to Arthur Street in the early 1980s.

There are people that are still bitter about this.

As for Hodder Avenue, I'm sure the bend with rock walls was considered distinguishing enough to maintain a different street name as opposed to continuing the North Cumberland Name.

When Hodder was named, Current River was developing as a community separate from Port Arthur. Access was over the previous Black Bay bridge near the mines, and Cumberland ended at Beck. The current road connections didn't happen till sometime in the 1910s... when Current River would have already had an incompatible grid.

Sort of related question - the city maintains a list of "acceptable street names" for developers to use. Where can one go to see said list? I remember council discusing it 20 or so years ago (the fear that we would have streets named after colours was a hot topic for editorial letters for a bit) but a quick search of the city's website yields no results for me.

That would be the Master Names List, and I think the policy was last looked at around 1996 or so. When the City chooses a name for a street or building, it works as you'd expect. For subdivisions, however, the developer dreams up the names and submits them for approval.

"If Things Had Gone According To Plan" could be the city's motto.

I'd like to see an alternate-history map of the city. We'd have Inter-Ocean Park behind the police station, another booming subdivision on Mission Island, a traffic circle in Northwood and a much-expanded Parkdale. The Neebing-McIntyre floodway would divert south to the Kam, and a spring-fed creek would still run through Waverley Park towards the lake. The Keskus of 1990 would serve a city of 200,000.

In demolition news, Simpson Street has lost another building, and the walkway between St Joe's and the former Sister Margaret Smith Centre has come down. The rest will probably follow soon.

[vid]

Fort William's Arthur Street was named after Arthur Vickers, Arthur Square was named after the Arthur family who owned the New Ontario hotel, and Port Arthur was named after Prince Arthur. For extra confusion value, I think the Prince Arthur Hotel might have been named after a different Prince Arthur.

I thought it was Arthur McKellar? Either way, he ended up committing suicide.

I'm not sure what you mean by Arthur Square, and I am pretty sure that the Prince Arthur Hotel was named after the same man as Prince Arthur's Landing.

There are people that are still bitter about this.

I know. They're typically the people who abandoned downtown completely and now shop at Walmart all the time. They don't realize that that kind of behaviour is why we built a mall there in the first place.

I'd like to see an alternate-history map of the city. We'd have Inter-Ocean Park behind the police station, another booming subdivision on Mission Island, a traffic circle in Northwood and a much-expanded Parkdale. The Neebing-McIntyre floodway would divert south to the Kam, and a spring-fed creek would still run through Waverley Park towards the lake. The Keskus of 1990 would serve a city of 200,000.

I've been thinking about doing this for a while but don't have the time. I do have quite a few historic maps (in electronic form) that show unbuild subdivisions all over the place. Fort William essentially had its entire land area planned out on a grid by the 1920s.

In demolition news, Simpson Street has lost another building

I'm going to guess it is the Rae's Furs building. A private individual actually bought that land, but I have no idea what they're doing with it. My guess is parking. A lot of storefronts on the odd 200 block of Simpson (which is two blocks, split by Leith Street) have been relocated or closed in the past couple years. I think someone is planning something for the area but is being very quiet about it.

[TbayON]

The routes have symbols; that's the reason you see signs with pictures of boats along the Fort William Road corridor. They aren't well publicized at all; I wondered about them for years before I finally found out.

I have noticed them too and they don't do a very good job for what they are intended for. No one uses symbols as road identifiers, they only associate symbols with the highway number (ex. green and white maple leaf with the TCH in NWO or the yellow silhouette of a man's head with the Highway 16 (Yellowhead Highway) in Manitoba westwards).

I'm going to guess it is the Rae's Furs building. A private individual actually bought that land, but I have no idea what they're doing with it. My guess is parking. A lot of storefronts on the odd 200 block of Simpson (which is two blocks, split by Leith Street) have been relocated or closed in the past couple years. I think someone is planning something for the area but is being very quiet about it.

When the whole mulitplex thing was in its infancy, the city was seriously considering this area as a location. Tearing down some of these old buildings that are beyond repair and/or have become eyesores marks the beginning of hopefully a reinvention of the area. The area has potential, and the loss of the Triple Nickel, West Hotel etc has helped decrease crime. It would have been nice to keep an historic flare to the area, but I think too many of the old buildings have been lost to fire and demolition or had their facades destroyed in the 70's and 80's when ugly and dull exterior renovations were in style.

Tenders are currently out for renovations to the old Zellers locations that will become Wal-Marts this year at Thunder Bay Mall and County Fair Mall. I believe the tender for the County Fair retrofit closes Tuesday, and I am not sure when the other one closes. In both cases, they are for sure just reno's and the new Wal-Marts will have the same foot print as the old Zellers locations, there will be no additions at this time.

[vid]

Are you sure the city was seriously considering that area for the multiplex and you're not just confused with the proposal for it that I made in the summer of 2010?

[TbayON]

Are you sure the city was seriously considering that area for the multiplex and you're not just confused with the proposal for it that I made in the summer of 2010?

No, there was serious consideration. The city was looking around the Simpson at Victoria Ave area behind the old Ukr. Credit Union location. I'm guessing it would have taken up the old NESCO site and all around there. As part of the process, the city contacted some of the surrounding property owners and someone I know well was involved in an organization with a building in that area. I can't remember exactly what the city was trying to accomplish by making contact with properties in the area, but the city did approach them. The proposal fell by the way-side though about the time they started talking the waterfront location instead. This was prior to there being any of the preliminary studies or feasibility studies being undertaken, I think the city was just weighing options.

[vid]

Interesting. Either way, the city is still collecting property there and buildings are disappearing at a steady rate. The only business left in that area at this point are Music World, Northern Windows door assembly facility, and Diamond-Lacy's Taxi.

I know we have two major taxi companies because we were two cities, but I've always found it a bit strange that neither has relocated to Intercity yet. Aside from the seagulls versus pigeons thing, the different taxis in Fort William versus Port Arthur is the other noticeable change after I moved down here. Those are the two big things. :P Oh, and lack of hills. Except for North Cumberland, there is nowhere in Port Arthur where you can look for miles down a street. In Fort William, most streets are like that. The trees lining the streets are even a bit different.

[TbayON]

They are collecting property right now to be used initially as parking spots. In the future, the city is hoping re-development proposals will come forward from the private world at which point the city will sell the land to anyone who wants to build on it. I think its the only option the city had left for that area. No one was going to come in and invest money upgrading the old buildings decades past their prime that remained there. A case of wiping the slate clean and starting over. It makes it easier to upgrade the infrastructure too should proposals for the land start coming forth. Northern Windows is one of the few good stories in that immediate area. Once the city gets done acquiring property and tearing the junk down, they are going to need to come up with a plan distinct to those few blocks. It may help provide some vision, and get results in terms of investment from the business community. I think there is a stigma attached to that part of town now, so they will have to do some creative marketing to get rid of that.

[vid]

The first thing that will happen once most of the old buildings are gone will be the city giving in to demands from "the public" that we should destroy the neighbourhood by building a freeway over Simpson Street.

Speaking of which, there is a Jane's Walk for May 5, starting at St. Lukes at the corner of McKenzie and Cameron at 1pm. Bay/Algoma and Waverly Park are having walks simultaneously. Westfort is having one at 2pm on May 6.

http://janeswalk.net/cities/landing/category/thunder_bay/

[TbayON]

The first thing that will happen once most of the old buildings are gone will be the city giving in to demands from "the public" that we should destroy the neighbourhood by building a freeway over Simpson Street.

I am assuming by freeway you mean something like Fort William Rd and Water St. north of intercity? I'm not sure what would happen. I could see people not demanding something like that because its not a popular area so people won't think of investing money there. On the other hand, this city is car crazy. It never ceases to amaze me that people can't put 2 and 2 together when it comes to figuring out why the roads are in terrible shape and how the development of the city has created/inflamed that problem.

One thing is for certain though and you are right, it would destroy the neighbourhood. The Simpson corridor would become a zone of transit essentially, that people use to get through the neighbourhood as quickly as possible to get over to intercity on their way in from Parkdale or wherever.

I noticed the other day there is finally some action at the Keefer Intermodel yard on 110th Ave (west side behind the Manitoulin yard). They put up a new sign a year or so ago, but nothing happened since and it seemed to be sitting there unused. There was some kind of work going on there the other day though and there was something being hauled in or out of there by truck.

[vid]

There have been quite a few letters to the editor from people saying "what a great idea it would be to get rid of all the ugly buildings and lowlifes on Simpson Street and replace it with a fast moving four lane road to bypass Downtown!" (Paraphrasing.)

This of course is ignoring the fact that Simpson has no lights and flows just as fast as Water Street does! You can travel a mile on Simpson just as fast as you can travel a mile on Fort William or Water.

From Parkdale, it takes only one minute less to take the Expressways versus Arthur and Simpson to get to Intercity, according to Google Maps. Building interchanges to improve the time would be difficult. A Parclo at Arthur and the Expressway is out because a hotel and a subdivision take up the necessary quadrants for it to function (while the two empty quadrants are available, go figure) and the Harbour would require upgrades that the city simply can't afford. Redesigning it so that it is grade separated would cost at least 100 million, if not more, and displace a considerable number of businesses. In this case, however, the TD Bank has relocated itself further away, so the Dairy Queen Advertisements Building is the only roadblock (after cost) to a Parclo at Memorial and Harbour.

A photo of the Courthouse and Patterson Court from McKellar Island
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beverlys/6950125302/
It isn't visible in the original, but I screencapped the photo into Irfanview (to see if I could find my apartment; its too grainy down there) and CEISS is also in the shot, on the right. It's very short compared to Patterson, mainly due to distance. I think it is about as tall as the Grain Exchange.

[TbayON]

I guess I haven't read any of those letters. Very few letters to the editor are worth reading anymore anyways it has become just another means for people to voice their uneducated and simple views on things. Anyone with a little intelligence can shoot holes through their arguments till it looks like swiss cheese. Most of these people can probably not even name one company that operates on Simpson or Hardisty St now (and there are actually quite a few). Anyhow, to get to my point, they may want this, but its not going to happen. There are way too many other more pressing infrastructure needs in the city at present. Simpson actually flows pretty well, and its one of the few streets in the city where drivers have developed a habit of traveling under the speed limit. I suppose one could try putting in 4 lanes, but it would probably not work at the corner by the old BMO (now the Lock Shop I think?). Plus, you would lose all parking for merchants along the street, further degrading their opportunities along the stretch. In terms of "lowlifes", Simpson St has drastically improved in the absence of the West Hotel, the Triple Nickel etc.

As for the Harbour Expressway, grade separation of intersections would need to happen one at a time. Traffic isn't that bad there... yet. I think the Harbour Expressway is going to become a pretty vital piece of municipal infrastructure in the coming years (not that it isn't now, but it will grow in significance) if the port authority is serious about this project cargo business and diversifying cargo types. Commercial vehicle traffic seems to grow more and more along the Harbour every year to me, it would be interesting if some stats were available to confirm that.

[F. Lionel]

As for the Harbour Expressway, grade separation of intersections would need to happen one at a time. Traffic isn't that bad there... yet. I think the Harbour Expressway is going to become a pretty vital piece of municipal infrastructure in the coming years (not that it isn't now, but it will grow in significance) if the port authority is serious about this project cargo business and diversifying cargo types. Commercial vehicle traffic seems to grow more and more along the Harbour every year to me, it would be interesting if some stats were available to confirm that.

After the Golf Links/Junot project and the Northwest Arterial Road are completed I think this will be the next major roadway infrastructure project. Although it's hardly on the radar right now I think in 8 years it will trump another north-south bridge across the floodway especially if the population grows like it's been projected.

I'd think the intersections will happen one at a time probably starting with Balmoral. Memorial and Carrick would probably be a dual project because of their proximity. Next would be Golf Links. The last one replaced would be Fort William Rd if it gets replaced at all (speculation: Maybe if they had to widen the Main Street Bridge to 4 lanes?).

[TbayON]

I'm not sure it would trump another North-South crossing over the floodway since population growth will only further clog already busy north-south routes just as it will increase congestion on the Harbour Expressway. I believe both projects will become of vital importance should even 3 or 4% annual growth, more in line with the rest of Ontario, begin to occur here.

I also think its a toss up between doing the intersection at Golf Links or Balmoral first. They are both really busy at rush hour times. Golf Links will probably see a pretty good increase in traffic in the coming years due to room for development along that corridor. If Inova starts filling up or housing is developed west of the hospital in the next few years, there should be a steady increase in traffic. Not as much can be developed along the Balmoral corridor in terms of open and available space. That is not to say a couple of major developments couldn't substantially increase traffic on Balmoral though. To hold things over at Golf Links and with the upcoming reconstruction of Golf Links, the city could put off an interchange at that intersection by adding double turn lanes (I can't remember what is planned specifically at that intersection right now) and other intersection improvements to increase traffic flow. Its hard to say overall what intersection would be done first because we don't know what is going to go on and where development will occur in the next 8 years with certainty.

Fort William Rd probably flows the best out of the major routes that cross the Harbour (in other words, excluding Carrick). A lot of development would have to happen around Keefer for the Main St bridge to be 4-laned. I am pretty sure they wouldn't widen it either, they would just add a neighbouring sister structure. Having a two-lane bridge there currently really isn't limiting anything I wouldn't think. There isn't that much traffic and no one could really move an oversize load from the port by truck that is wider than two-lanes anyways (due to our highways, laws, limitations of trucks etc.). The cops just stop traffic at the bottom of the bridge when they have to get large pieces across there currently, and it doesn't really cause any headaches.

[F. Lionel]

I'm not sure it would trump another North-South crossing over the floodway since population growth will only further clog already busy north-south routes just as it will increase congestion on the Harbour Expressway. I believe both projects will become of vital importance should even 3 or 4% annual growth, more in line with the rest of Ontario, begin to occur here.

Both projects would be equally important because of the potential congestion putting off either will create, I'm not arguing with that.

What trumps it will be that the Harbour Expressway upgrading can be spun as a benefit for the entire city while the bridge would only benefit downtown Fort William. And make no mistake it will get spun that way - the twin cities are dying a long hard death here in Thunder Bay. A decade will make little difference but 20,000 new voters might.

The editorial in today's CJ shows how stupid the whole thing has become. Making an issue of Victoriaville BIA rebranding to Fort William BIA is ridiculous. It's based on the history of the area. Bay-Algoma brands their history as does Westfort. This is no different - Downtown FW is just another neighbourhood now. But people keep making a big deal out of it and that will affect the building of a bridge to that one certain area. That will be spun against a project for the whole city and political self-preservation is a sport here too.

Also - I saw a bunch of dirt and machinery in the old Petro-Can lot at the corner of Bay and Algoma. I don't recall anything new happening there after their plan for the solar tree quietly fell along the wayside. Anyone know what's going on?

[tjernobyl]

I thought it was Arthur McKellar? Either way, he ended up committing suicide.

Sorry, you're right; didn't proofread my post thoroughly. :/

I'm not sure what you mean by Arthur Square, and I am pretty sure that the Prince Arthur Hotel was named after the same man as Prince Arthur's Landing.

Arthur Square is the mall-like structure at the SE corner of Red River and The Mall, often misidentified as a portion of Keskus. The concave pentagonal footprint is inherited from the hotel.

Prince Arthur's Landing was definitely named after the elder Prince Arthur, but I remember someone theorizing that his son may have been in mind 40-odd years later when the hotel was built. I wish I could remember where I heard it; it's been on my to-look-up list for years.

I'm going to guess it is the Rae's Furs building. A private individual actually bought that land, but I have no idea what they're doing with it. My guess is parking. A lot of storefronts on the odd 200 block of Simpson (which is two blocks, split by Leith Street) have been relocated or closed in the past couple years. I think someone is planning something for the area but is being very quiet about it.

Confirmed to be Rae's Furs. Looking through my Hendersons', the building has been held by furriers since at least 1950.

Simpson actually flows pretty well, and its one of the few streets in the city where drivers have developed a habit of traveling under the speed limit. I suppose one could try putting in 4 lanes, but it would probably not work at the corner by the old BMO (now the Lock Shop I think?). Plus, you would lose all parking for merchants along the street, further degrading their opportunities along the stretch. In terms of "lowlifes", Simpson St has drastically improved in the absence of the West Hotel, the Triple Nickel etc.

Charry's Corner sold last year after the Karate school moved to the Center of Change. If the building was removed and the park moved back into its place, I think there would be room to relieve the pinch point there.

Also - I saw a bunch of dirt and machinery in the old Petro-Can lot at the corner of Bay and Algoma. I don't recall anything new happening there after their plan for the solar tree quietly fell along the wayside. Anyone know what's going on?

Geothermal field for the Finlandia; so far as I can tell it's in the Hoito parking lot, though it might be staged from the Petro-Can lot. 27 boreholes, 10 pumps.

The Urban Design Guidelines are coming before Council tonight. Highlighted recommendations include a grid layout for subdivisions, the prohibition of mobile signs, parking behind major buildings instead of in front, pedestrian routes and trees for parking areas, reduced use of imitation cladding, and a minimum height of two stories for new buildings on main streets.

[vid]

Most of these people can probably not even name one company that operates on Simpson or Hardisty St now (and there are actually quite a few).

It's kind of surprising, even to me, living on this street, just how many businesses there are in the area. The vacancy rate has been dropping at a steady pace, due to a combination of removing dilapidated buildings and new businesses moving into empty or underused ones.

Simpson actually flows pretty well, and its one of the few streets in the city where drivers have developed a habit of traveling under the speed limit.

As I mentioned before, you can travel the length of Simpson Street at the same speed and time as you travel an equal length of Water/Fort William.

While traffic slows a bit at rush hour (simply because this street becomes a mile long parade of cars at that time), people do speed, and dangerously so, outside of rush hour. This combined with the habit of passing left-hand turners on the right can make crossing the street pretty dangerous. I'm among the last households on the railyard side of the street, thuogh.

I suppose one could try putting in 4 lanes, but it would probably not work at the corner by the old BMO (now the Lock Shop I think?). Plus, you would lose all parking for merchants along the street, further degrading their opportunities along the stretch.

Four lanes isn't necessary, and Charry's Corner would be virtually impossible to four-lane anyway. The only real issue with traffic flow on Simpson is left-hand turns. Usually, traffic can pass it on the right (since no one actually uses the street parking on Simpson, except at the Adanac and up near the Prosvita) so it is only an issue at rush hour.

Most businesses have parking lots beside them, and with more buildings coming down, we have even more opportunity to reuse the lots for parking. Add in some landscaping and it won't be too bad.

The editorial in today's CJ shows how stupid the whole thing has become. Making an issue of Victoriaville BIA rebranding to Fort William BIA is ridiculous. It's based on the history of the area. Bay-Algoma brands their history as does Westfort. This is no different - Downtown FW is just another neighbourhood now. But people keep making a big deal out of it and that will affect the building of a bridge to that one certain area. That will be spun against a project for the whole city and political self-preservation is a sport here too.

Intercity. No one ever mentions Intercity. It is called that because it is where two separate cities met! I have never heard anyone oppose that, but refer to each end of the city by its original name and you're either a hero or a blasphemer. Fort William and Port Arthur are neighbourhoods of Thunder Bay that used to be separate cities. There is no logical reason that we can't still use the names. The Chronicle-Journal would have served us better by arguing that despite the use of the original name, positive development in one end of the city supports the city as a whole! :rolleyes:

Northwood was called Northwood because it was North of Fort William, the city that developed it. Should we change its name to Westwood? Does Westfort have to be changed to West Thunder?

Let's leave the city for a moment: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia is now East Halifax, Nova Scotia. Scarborough, Ontario is East Toronto, Ontario. Streetsville, Port Credit and Malton are now West Mississauga, South Mississauga and North Mississauga, respectively. The Kildonans in Winnipeg can become The End North of the North End but Not the North End. St. Boniface will certainly have to change its name as well, can't have that. It's on the other side of the river, how about Gepinniw? Sounds kinda French! :crazy:

Neebing Ward and McIntyre Ward? They're both named after communities that no longer exist!! (Ignoring the fact that both are geographic townships and serve a purpose.) Lakehead University is going to have to change its name, the CJ editorial says that we have to shake that moniker too! Gonna have to get the Lakehead Board of Education to call itself something else.

And of course, Thunder Bay itself is probably the oldest toponym in the area, going back to the 1690s when this inlet was named Baie du Tonnerre.

Arthur Square is the mall-like structure at the SE corner of Red River and The Mall, often misidentified as a portion of Keskus. The concave pentagonal footprint is inherited from the hotel.

I thought it was called Canada Trust Square. I've always just kind of considered it to be the remaining nub of Keskus.

Confirmed to be Rae's Furs. Looking through my Hendersons', the building has been held by furriers since at least 1950.

I got photos of it last night. (Nothing to see, really, just a pile of bricks.)

[TbayON]

The editorial in today's CJ shows how stupid the whole thing has become. Making an issue of Victoriaville BIA rebranding to Fort William BIA is ridiculous. It's based on the history of the area. Bay-Algoma brands their history as does Westfort. This is no different - Downtown FW is just another neighbourhood now. But people keep making a big deal out of it and that will affect the building of a bridge to that one certain area. That will be spun against a project for the whole city and political self-preservation is a sport here too.

I read that thing, and after all the stupid and uneducated comments I read on news sites and in opinion pieces, I couldn't believe this one. Like really? Your life is that great and this city is so perfect that we should be so worried about something like that? I know it really goes back to the twin cities thing, but come on the author of that letter really needs to get a life or find a better hobby because they look like an idiot putting that in the public realm.

It's kind of surprising, even to me, living on this street, just how many businesses there are in the area. The vacancy rate has been dropping at a steady pace, due to a combination of removing dilapidated buildings and new businesses moving into empty or underused ones.

Partially a result of a low overall vacancy rate in the city and rising housing costs as well I would think. There are a few businesses down there that pretty well take up a whole block of Hardisty (DRD Construction, Northern Windows, Courtesy Freight). Stuff is happening, hopefully its the start of a slow revival.

Four lanes isn't necessary, and Charry's Corner would be virtually impossible to four-lane anyway. The only real issue with traffic flow on Simpson is left-hand turns. Usually, traffic can pass it on the right (since no one actually uses the street parking on Simpson, except at the Adanac and up near the Prosvita) so it is only an issue at rush hour.

Most businesses have parking lots beside them, and with more buildings coming down, we have even more opportunity to reuse the lots for parking. Add in some landscaping and it won't be too bad.

No its not necessary, especially when the street is only very busy a couple hours a day max. I suppose one could also add a suicide turning lane pretty easily as well. That may prevent pass on the right while causing traffic to flow better. Parking could probably still be maintained the sides of the street too. Simpson is pretty wide.

Took a walk down at Prince Arthur's Landing this evening, and the park looks pretty good for spring. What is the open area still all gravel and dirt in front of the CN Station? Is that the market square? If so, I guess that went to Manshield to finish in the last contract awarded for this phase of the development.

[vid]

The dirt pit in front of the station is the market square. Another building may or may not be built on the side closest to the rink/splash pad.

[TbayON]

City Council discussed the proposed mining centre of excellence for Innova this evening at their meeting. The result is somewhat interesting on a couple fronts. While I didn't listen to most of what happened, the end result is whatever consultant is looking at the proposal suggested using Innova as a mining centre of excellence should the events centre go elsewhere. I wonder if this may either be the end of the events centre at Innova because the mining centre will push it out or if this will be the reason the city chooses downtown PA (which they seem to be favouring quietly) to preserve Innova for mining purposes. Whichever it is, I am sure this is going to stir up quite a lot of debate.

Thunder Bay will undoubtedly require a mining centre of excellence should all this mining exploration lead to mines in the next couple years, which is what is being predicted now. We will require that centre to help the city capitalize on the biggest opportunity here in quite a few decades. I just hope if the city chooses the mining centre things happen there sooner than later, or else it will become the next "white elephant" or "failed development" and that "the events centre belonged there, not private business".

[TbayON]

Target has officially/publicly confirmed it will be open for business in the Intercity Mall by summer 2013. They will be hiring 150-200 people to work at the store.

On the forestry front:

Global Sticks has been up and running for 6 weeks now. Only 1 shift is on at the plant right now. The owners say they have almost completed all necessary financing to get things going full steam ahead again. Lakehead U did some tree mapping for the company in order to find the quality birch trees they require to run a profitable operation, which will hopefully help the company do a lot better this time around. They had trouble accessing birch with qualities they require for their products, which was a major contributor to their meltdown this fall. Global Sticks also has more cutting rights on Forest Management Units around the city now for birch, which again should help the business. Global Sticks is supposed to release some information to the press in the coming days or weeks to discuss their resumption of operations, but are choosing to remain pretty quiet for now.

The monitor for Terrace Bay Pulp is seeking an extension of bankruptcy protection in court. They want it extended to June 15th now. In all likelihood, they will receive that extension since Terrace Bay Pulp still has some money in the bank and their are rumoured to be more than 1 interested party in purchasing the mill.

[tjernobyl]

I thought it was called Canada Trust Square. I've always just kind of considered it to be the remaining nub of Keskus.

The family fell onto financial hard times around the late 80s and lost the building. I don't know if Canada Trust is the bank that foreclosed it, but if so, what an incredible 'f**k you' it would have been to rename it after themselves.

It opened in 1978 after Keskus, and was privately rather than municipally owned. It filled up quickly, but I think occupancy began to decline at the same time as Keskus proper. There are very few commercial tenants (3-4?) currently, but the main and second floors are still in reasonably good shape.

Intercity. No one ever mentions Intercity. It is called that because it is where two separate cities met! I have never heard anyone oppose that, but refer to each end of the city by its original name and you're either a hero or a blasphemer.

From now on, the Interoutpost area separates Fort Camanistigoyan from The Depot. :P

[F. Lionel]

The family fell onto financial hard times around the late 80s and lost the building. I don't know if Canada Trust is the bank that foreclosed it, but if so, what an incredible 'f**k you' it would have been to rename it after themselves.

It opened in 1978 after Keskus, and was privately rather than municipally owned. It filled up quickly, but I think occupancy began to decline at the same time as Keskus proper. There are very few commercial tenants (3-4?) currently, but the main and second floors are still in reasonably good shape.


After the building was bought up I thought the naming rights were sold as a way to generate money and, since Canada Trust was the major occupant, they bought them.

I remember visiting Tamarak Technologies in the basement on my lunch break from PACI. So many years ago... :)

That would be the Master Names List, and I think the policy was last looked at around 1996 or so. When the City chooses a name for a street or building, it works as you'd expect. For subdivisions, however, the developer dreams up the names and submits them for approval.

Thanks - I knew something like this existed. I've seen mention of it a few times as things were suggested to be added but it would be nice to see the comprehensive list.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/content/news/local/2012/04/27/target-aimed-intercity
Target has officially announced their intentions to open their store here in 2013. Like the current ad campaign for Intercity (Right on Target - Check out our New Stores!) wasn't a big enough clue...

Also - The new streets behind Woodcrest School are taking shape. It looks like Pioneer Drive is also about to get extended as well. The next stage of Parkdale looks like it's almost ready for work to begin too.

[TbayON]

Hatch (an engineering, project management, consulting etc. firm) has bought Engineering Northwest (ENL). The owners of ENL reached the age of retirement, and sold the company to finance their pensions. Hatch is a pretty large company, and has it headquarters in Mississauga. They have offices all over the world. Hatch is pretty heavily into mining and infrastructure work, so ENL should fit pretty well into their new owners business.

Supposedly Biltrite (Home Hardware) on Beaverhall Pl. has shut down. Rumour has it the owner there was also retiring as Biltrite was of course a Home Hardware franchise. The owner approached the Home Hardware Corporation for help in finding a new owner or purchaser for the operation. Home Hardware told him that it was his problem to find a new owner, and would not help in the search at all. In the end, the place was closed. I have also heard Biltrite had money problems, but I am less likely to believe this story given they supplied a great deal of material to the local market for home construction. Any way you look at it, it was not well played by Home Hardware as a lot of material moved through that store, a lot of contractors did business there and the owners of the Intercity store are complete assholes and do not reflect well on the company.

The Thunder Bay Country Club is proposing another land deal involving the University. This time the TBCC is looking to lease just over 6 acres of University land adjacent to their property across the McIntyre River from the main University campus. It has been reported the land is "hazardous land" and therefore no buildings can be located there. As of right now, its just a proposal and not a concrete deal. The student union has come out swinging against it, just like they do with anything University administration produces. Among other things, LUSU says it will represent a loss of outdoor classrooms. I tend to think this is complete BS since I'm through 3 years of a forestry degree now and I maybe stepped on this land once for a class. I am pretty sure it was only when walking from one place to another to dig soil pits when I was there. That being said, the university has lost/given away quite a bit of land in recent years, including to the hospital and the piece that was sold to extend River Terrace north of Oliver.

I have noticed in the last few days there has been some action on the empty lots between the Main St bridge and the Michaels store in the Thunder Centre. Some city vehicles were there today while TBT Engineering was doing some sampling or drilling with some equipment to test the soil and ground. TBT was doing the same work across from the Superstore in the weeks leading up to the announcement the Marriott was going there, so I wonder if someone is really interested in that property.

I was also down at Keefer Terminal today, and the place is absolutely jam packed with wind turbine blades, parts and pieces. There has to be a least 3 ship loads worth there, hopefully its a sign of things to come this year for the port.

[super39]

We are planning to relocate to the city and it has been so difficult finding an area to build a house in. All the areas appear to be owned by the same developer and you could literally reach your hand out of the window of your house into your neighbors dinning room. The city should be more business friendly to other developers as it appears the one has a monopoly and is using that to there advantage!

[TbayON]

I heard the other day either the provincial or federal government has been looking at constructing an office building in the intercity area somewhere around the Harbour Expressway and Fort William Rd and Memorial Ave. for one of their environmental protection agencies. The building actually went out for tender about a year ago, but bids were too high at that time. I am not sure if the recent cut-backs in funding and spending is going to have an impact on this particular project, but its certainly a possibility.

Something I really don't understand about these types of government buildings, especially if its provincial, is why they are locating them outside of downtown cores. The province is borderline forcing municipal governments to encourage greater density construction and more focus on construction in core areas over suburban areas and sprawl. Is this not a little hypocritical, or does the province consider intercity a true core area?

[vid]

The Federal Government stuck an Environment Canada office in Innova Park, so I am not sure if they are really taking seriously all of their rhetoric about urban development.

We are planning to relocate to the city and it has been so difficult finding an area to build a house in. All the areas appear to be owned by the same developer and you could literally reach your hand out of the window of your house into your neighbors dinning room. The city should be more business friendly to other developers as it appears the one has a monopoly and is using that to there advantage!

This is a small market. There aren't many players.

What exactly are you looking for?

[TbayON]

All too often they seem perfectly fine with spreading their rhetoric around and proclaiming that it will save the world without any concrete plan or course of action (that is the politicians and high level bureaucrats of course).

Municipal Golf Course it history. City council voted this evening to close the course next year and sell it off. With an abundant amount of golf courses in the city for the number of people actively playing the sport, pre-sales on lots in Thunder Bay's "next premier residential development" should begin as soon as Oliver-Paipoonge council agrees to rezone the land.

[tjernobyl]

MPAC value of $1.1 million, up to 30 lots if subdivided.

[vid]

I would have thought that the golf course being there would be an asset to property values in the area, but it is Paipoonge. They're a river away from living in a swamp.

[TbayON]

I would have thought that the golf course being there would be an asset to property values in the area, but it is Paipoonge. They're a river away from living in a swamp.

Whitewater is right there too though, so I guess they will still have their local golf course. A fair amount of the population can probably afford the odd round at Whitewater that live in that area too, so I'm sure its not that big of a deal. Like I said before, its a pretty desirable area as well, so people will be drawn golf course or not. They may also be a river away from living in a swamp, but south of Arthur St. to the Kam River, the soils there are pretty good for home building. A whole lot of sand to carry water away, no muskeg to heave and sink and not a lot of clay at all.

[tjernobyl]

It was mentioned by Marie Dean during her deputation that Municipal was the most favourable course following rainy weather. While other courses might take days to fully dry out, Municipal's sandy nature would return it to playability ten minutes after the rain ceased. There are swampy areas to the south where an oxbow lake is slowly marshing in, but Municipal has enough elevation to keep it dry.

[vid]

Oliver Paipoonge could run it if it has to continue to exist.

[TbayON]

Oliver Paipoonge probably could run it, but I doubt they want the trouble of running it or the risk involved in buying the property for golfing purposes with their limited funds. I wonder, would Oliver Paipoonge make more in taxes if the land was still a golf course, or turned into a subdivision? My guess is the council there would prefer to see development of a subdivision as they could sell it as a sign of growth in their municipality. Although its unfortunate in one way to lose green space like a golf course, on the other hand there isn't anything extraordinary about Municipal Golf Course that could never be replaced/replicated again in the future. There was valid arguments on both sides of this issue and no 100% correct answer for the city.

[TbayON]

I suspect, given recent developments, Cliffs Natural Resource's project in the ROF is in its dying days unless there is a major shift in the company's position on many fronts and unless the provincial government steps up to take on a significant leadership role in what is happening with this development. All signs are pointing that Sudbury will be announced as the location of the processor, which will essentially kill the project in the eyes of numerous northern First Nations and several NWO municipalities. And that is only one outstanding issue. Aroland First Nation recently filed Freedom to Information Requests as they believe back room decisions and deals are being made between the MNDM and Cliffs. I have also heard (from a source in the know) that Cliffs actually has a plan on paper to haul materials for the mine in over winter roads. This is, of course, absolutely idiotic given the state of winter roads in this day in age and the shear amount of material they will require up there.

This all is a load of complete bullshit, and could have easily been avoided given some leadership and goodwill from gov't and big business. They think they can just run in here and do whatever the fuck they want all the time and leave when the well runs dry or the market flops. Well, it ain't happening this time boys. From the standpoint of the province, its absolutely mind blowing they aren't working their asses off to make this project work. They could eliminate their entire deficit with something like this. They seem completely uninterested or even worse, completely oblivious to this fact.

On a more positive note, I overheard a conversation about another significant development in the Atikokan area. Someone is looking at opening yet another mine in the region (pretty sure its Iron Ore). I thought initially they were talking about BLIG, but they mentioned BLIG and seemed to be a separate entity. 450 jobs are involved in this project once its up and running. Two open pits are to be mined. It almost sounded like the old Steep Rock site may be involved. They said something about an announcement soon, so maybe we will hear something before long.

[toaster]

It's unfortunate this issue has pit communities in the North against each other. I'm just happy it will be located in Ontario. Sure it would be nice if it was closer to the actual mine, but at least it's staying in the north.

[vid]

Some photos I took of the twinning project east of Thunder Bay from Friday afternoon:

Hodder/Copenhagen Parclo:

http://i.imgur.com/yGnIx.jpg
(There is also a cell tower located beside the water tower, you can't tell in the photo though. I first noticed it in early April, I think.)

Terry Fox Lookout from West:

http://i.imgur.com/mFkXG.jpg

New Entrance from South:

http://i.imgur.com/CavsG.jpg

Old Entrance:

http://i.imgur.com/ZClst.jpg

McKenzie Bridges:

http://i.imgur.com/nDODV.jpg

I'll look through the photos to see if there are any other development related shots I can post.

edit:

http://i.imgur.com/xbO2C.jpg

New EMS centre and the rebuilt corner of Pioneer/Valley/John/Balmoral/Waterloo (because we needed another name added to that street) and Sherwood. Also there is something going on beside the LCBO at County Fair.

[Nouvellecosse]

Wow, TB looks huge in that last photo. Much bigger than I pictured. How far from downtown was that picture taken?

[vid]

That bend in the road is 3 miles away from downtown as the crow flies. That is just a slice of the city, here are a few more:

http://i.imgur.com/jZgAl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2kU3z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aWU0S.jpg
City from the north

http://i.imgur.com/aHtoe.jpg
Downtown Fort William

http://i.imgur.com/NioiP.jpg
Downtown Port Arthur

[Nouvellecosse]

Those are really cool! What sort of processing did you use on them to get that smoky effect?

[vid]

They were shot through a window and it was cloudy. I used Windows Live Photo Gallery to salvage what I could.

[TbayON]

Also there is something going on beside the LCBO at County Fair.

They took the old Suny's gas bar out, but it did appear to me there was a little more involved. Maybe they are just fixing up the parking lot? I think I also saw something being done to the old chainsaw store and then I think it was direct cabinets at the corner of May St and George St.

This is kind of a pain in the ass...
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/207827/Hotel-in-jeopardy?

I guess Superstore wants full exposure to the Harbour Expressway or something. I guess we know why the hotel didn't start yet.

[vid]

Yeah, I keep forgetting to mention Direct Cabinets. No idea what's going on there. Probably demolition to make more parking.

[tjernobyl]

The opposite of parking, strangely enough! They say the current single-story structure is out-of-scale with the rest of the area, which is true. But rather than retaining it as a tiny building in the middle of parking lot, they propose to build a facade wall at the property line along May and George and have a small internal courtyard. The eventual use is a medical clinic.

[vid]

Ah, another "medical clinic"!

Thunder Bay: "Medical Clinic" Capital of Canada

Here is the definition of "Medical Office" from the zoning by-law:

"For the definition of "MEDICAL OFFICE," see the definition of "OFFICE" below."

Ok...

An "OFFICE" is a PLACE where a business is lawfully conducted or a profession is
lawfully practiced or public administration is conducted.
...
A "MEDICAL OFFICE" is an OFFICE for the practice of one or more
HEALTH PROFESSIONALS.

And health professionals are:

A "HEALTH PROFESSIONAL" is a person authorized to practise as a "Health
Professional" under provincial legislation. The term includes dentists, physicians,
nurses, drugless practitioners, and chiropractors.

My money is on "drugless practitioner". :yes:

[TbayON]

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/208316/Frustrated

Its definitely a whole new day in Northwestern Ontario. If municipalities and FN's find a way to all work together in NWO, I'm pretty sure the Ontario gov't is going to find themselves in a whole world of shit up here.

Acadia Broadcasting News is reporting the situation for Marriott's new hotel in Thunder Bay may not be as bad as reported by TBNews. A developer with Thompson Centres said the OMB hearing has to do with a complaint from Loblaws about the size of the building. The developer also said he expects construction to begin this summer despite the hearing.

[tjernobyl]

New EMS centre and the rebuilt corner of Pioneer/Valley/John/Balmoral/Waterloo (because we needed another name added to that street) and Sherwood. Also there is something going on beside the LCBO at County Fair.

Looks like a ditch was run from Dawson Road across the lot towards Renfrew. Current work is near a water main, so I'm assuming this is utility related. FWIW, the current work is in the Canadian Tire parcel.

Toys R Us is coming to Thunder Centre.

[F. Lionel]

Looks like a ditch was run from Dawson Road across the lot towards Renfrew. Current work is near a water main, so I'm assuming this is utility related. FWIW, the current work is in the Canadian Tire parcel.

Toys R Us is coming to Thunder Centre.

I saw the dirt all piles back there last week but I thought maybe someone was paying to fix the Canadian Tire parking lot.

The article for Toy's R Us coming (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/208582/Toys-'R'-Us-coming-) from TBNewsWatch.

It's going to be part of a larger development of the last part of the Thunder Centre and they want to be open by Christmas. A second phase will be home to some smaller retailers and will be built as needed.

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/208568/Hampton-Inn-construction-delayed,-but-still-moving-ahead: An article about the Hampton Inn being planned for the airport - construction is delayed until September or so but the scope of the project is expanding to slightly more than 100 rooms.

Another article that appeared today mentions the re-development of the North End Rec that is planned over the next several years with a splash-pad and permanent paved rink location. The article itself is mostly about frost heaving bringing pieces of glass and other refuse to the surface from the landfill used to level the playing fields.

A fourth article is about the city and CN meeting to discuss what can be done about the James Street Bridge.

All are found at TBNewsWatch.

[vid]

Northwestern Ontario will be the primary region of residence for the people actually working in the mine, and this isn't the only project going on in the region, so it isn't like this was a one-time thing and we missed out.

If anyone wants to blame anyone, it should be CN for ripping up the Kinghorn line.

[TbayON]

Toys R Us is coming to Thunder Centre.

I guess I know why I saw TBT Engineering doing testing in there a few weeks ago now. If the two are indeed linked, this development will go between Michaels and the Main St. bridge, which makes sense since its the only piece of the Thunder Centre property remaining that is large enough to handle that much retail space.

It's going to be part of a larger development of the last part of the Thunder Centre and they want to be open by Christmas. A second phase will be home to some smaller retailers and will be built as needed.

If this development progresses like the all the other parts of the Thunder Centre before it, it will be a while before the whole thing is complete. It took quite a few years to fill what is already built there.


An article about the Hampton Inn being planned for the airport - construction is delayed until September or so but the scope of the project is expanding to slightly more than 100 rooms.

There has been no mention in the media, but the project has also experienced delays since the airport authority wanted the hotel developers to build on leased land. As one would suspect, not owning the land makes the developers nervous since they could lose their investment in the building once their lease is up. The proposed increase in rooms is a good sign though that the developers are optimistic.

Northwestern Ontario will be the primary region of residence for the people actually working in the mine, and this isn't the only project going on in the region, so it isn't like this was a one-time thing and we missed out.

There is a lot more to the issue than that. I know where you are going with your point, but it is a bit simplistic in the grand scheme of things. I think we in NWO learned a whole lot from the collapse of the forest industry in the past decade. We now realize we have to do more than just extract resources and ship them out to the commodity markets to avoid boom/bust cycles. The way a lot of this mining development is going currently, we are heading towards the same thing in the future we just went through with forestry. This Cliff's development is setting a precedent really since its the first large-scale mine development getting into the latter stages of planning. To sum it up, people here want more than just jobs working in the mine. They want to develop a whole host of services and knowledge based around mining. The signals I am getting from higher-level government and industry indicate they want people in NWO to toil in the mine and get the stuff on a truck or rail car destined anywhere but here.

[F. Lionel]

If this development progresses like the all the other parts of the Thunder Centre before it, it will be a while before the whole thing is complete. It took quite a few years to fill what is already built there.

While at face value that is true the reality is that the Thunder Centre was built and being filled with tenants at the tail end of the last economic rush and was knocked sideways during the subsequent slowdown that saw First Gulf abandon their plans for the Innova Big Box plans.

Cotton Ginny had located to Thunder Centre and then went bankrupt. Bed, Bath & Beyond, Pottery Barn, and Outback Steakhouse were all potential tenants who had been in negotiation before ultimately pulling the pin for various reasons.
As a development it is one store away from 100% full in its current state. There are still plenty of retailers and restaurants that are very interested in being a part of the Thunder Bay market but suitable locations are very scarce. Some want to have a financial stake (like London Drugs) in the development while others (like Best Buy) are waiting for the proper location. Others (like Costco) are going to weigh their options very carefully before making any decisions or announcements.

The Thunder Centre will be full before next Christmas and serious consideration will be going to where the 'next' big box development should happen. If the sale at County Fair has truly fallen apart then my money is on that lot.

[tjernobyl]

Putting another big box on the County Fair property would be a bit awkward; the Wal-Mart dominates the lot and would always be the largest structure. The other two anchors are much smaller, and the Canadian Tire builds upwards to get visibility from the back half of the lot. I suppose if you had both the mall and the lumber yard you could do some structures aligned against East Avenue (and bringing them to the street would be preferable under the proposed urban design guidelines), but the siting would still be a bit sub-optimal.

I haven't got a good handle on the precise location of the old Port Arthur Nuisance Ground, but it would be somewhere around North End Rec. Has anyone got more information on how far it reached and when it was closed?

[F. Lionel]

Putting another big box on the County Fair property would be a bit awkward; the Wal-Mart dominates the lot and would always be the largest structure. The other two anchors are much smaller, and the Canadian Tire builds upwards to get visibility from the back half of the lot. I suppose if you had both the mall and the lumber yard you could do some structures aligned against East Avenue (and bringing them to the street would be preferable under the proposed urban design guidelines), but the siting would still be a bit sub-optimal.


Having both the mall and the lumber yard gone would be the first step and one could locate 6 to 7 tenants on those lands including a mid-sized anchor. Smaller tenants would only need/want 2000-5000 sq ft. If you could aquire Canadian Tire (even just to knock it down for parking) and close off one entrance onto East Avenue one could conceivably get three more tenants onto the land (one along East Avenue, two in the lot behind the Landmark). I will agree that the layout would not be ideal. Removing the berms around the rear of the property would provide more room as well and is something the city would probably allow. Right now they shield the properties from the parking lots just swap parking with buildings and the berms aren't as necessary.

You could probably get away with closing one entrance onto East Ave if you were to open Renfrew up as a one-way entrance into the development and work with Walmart to redesign the entrance off Dawson Rd.

Visibility isn't a necessity so long as the pylon signs are of similar height as those at RioCan. You'd be able to see those from the Expressway.


I haven't got a good handle on the precise location of the old Port Arthur Nuisance Ground, but it would be somewhere around North End Rec. Has anyone got more information on how far it reached and when it was closed?

The old nuissance ground, I think, is confined soley to the land that is occupied by the Rec Centre playfields and playgrounds, and possibly the apartment complexes along Huron. I've never heard anyone say anything about glass coming through the ground at Vance Chapman but most of that lot is encased in asphalt. I have some friends who lived on Huron Crescent with extensive gardens and they have found a few things while digging in their back yard. I don't know if the area in question ever crossed Shuniah. That defines a pretty narrow area though if it's just that singular block.

My grandfather used to use it as a point of reference when describing the family's time living on Otto Street in the 1940's but I was never sure if he meant it was still open or it was just the site where it had been in years previous.

edit:
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/208885/Hotel-a-go-after-OMB-appeal-dropped
Thank goodness for common sense. It's too bad that it's going to be an A&W and not a Harvey's.

[vid]

County Fair would be better suited to a high density mixed-use development as a sort of town centre for the Northwest part of the city.

We'll probably see big box stores start concentrating in Innova Park, the land east of Fort William Road and the gap between Intercity and Walmart before we see anything serious go into County Fair.

[TbayON]

Thank goodness for common sense. It's too bad that it's going to be an A&W and not a Harvey's.

I wonder if they struck a deal, or if Loblaws just came to their better senses? Regardless, its good news! I wonder what the deal with Harvey's is. The parent company has been advertising here looking for a franchisee for years now. Maybe the price is too high?

[toaster]

Hilton Homewood Suites will be opening up in Timmins at the corner of Algonquin and Spruce St. (Downtown). One of about 4/5 new hotels opening in Timmins in the next little while.

http://s13.postimage.org/a2l2nt93b/Picture_19.pnghttp://s7.postimage.org/iia6lw58r/Picture_22.png

http://s17.postimage.org/qgr40scu7/Picture_20.png

http://s8.postimage.org/5ypxwm5jp/Picture_21.png

[F. Lionel]

County Fair would be better suited to a high density mixed-use development as a sort of town centre for the Northwest part of the city.

We'll probably see big box stores start concentrating in Innova Park, the land east of Fort William Road and the gap between Intercity and Walmart before we see anything serious go into County Fair.

I agree that mixed-use would be most ideal for the location but, since it is already zoned commercial and the city is trying to keep Innova for their mining centre, I still think this is going to be the next lot to be re-developed and made into big-box retail.

Unless someone buys up all the lots on the east side of Fort William Rd between Burbidge and Main or strikes a deal with the Harbour Commision for all the land between the tracks and Manitoulin. The city is running out of large space in the Intercity area that would be suitable for a big box development. Most retailers want to be with other retailers in order to create "synergy" and "excitement". Going stand-alone is going to be difficult no matter what way you position yourself, unless you are going big.

The only other large lot of land that could be remade into a suitable sized Big Box retail centre is the former Riverview Raceway lands. I think that was proposed at one point but I think the financing and interest wasn't there. I could be wrong about that. No doubt the retail owners in and around Arthur Street Marketplace would have been ready to fight that one tooth and nail.

I wonder if they struck a deal, or if Loblaws just came to their better senses? Regardless, its good news! I wonder what the deal with Harvey's is. The parent company has been advertising here looking for a franchisee for years now. Maybe the price is too high?

I think it was Vid who spoke about this awhile back - He said something about the scheduling demands on the Franchisee being outrageous. That could be part of the problem as well.

[tjernobyl]

The only other large lot of land that could be remade into a suitable sized Big Box retail centre is the former Riverview Raceway lands. I think that was proposed at one point but I think the financing and interest wasn't there. I could be wrong about that. No doubt the retail owners in and around Arthur Street Marketplace would have been ready to fight that one tooth and nail.

The Raceway lands were purchased by Great Lakes / Avenor / Bowater / whatever it is now not long after the raceway closed. The land was purchased strategically; they had no purpose in mind but figured it would be useful if they ever wanted to expand. I don't know if they have any intentions to dispose of it. It's next to the Jim Jessiman Nature Preserve which they donated to the Conservation Authority in '74.

I think it was Vid who spoke about this awhile back - He said something about the scheduling demands on the Franchisee being outrageous. That could be part of the problem as well.

Found it!

Doubt new building would be a Harveys.
A relative of my wife's knew the previous Harveys 'owners' in Thunder Bay.
They were looking at coming back again, but Harveys had too many demands such as the 'owners' having to be there seven days a week.

[vid]

I don't like the idea of building a new retail hub outside of the core city. The raceway lands would be even worse than County Fair. At least people live around County Fair.

I am pretty sure Thunder Bay has a shortage of qualified restaurant managers. I don't know why, but that seems to be the issue that prevents a lot of chain restaurants from opening here. Those who are here, seem more interested in starting their own restaurant than being restricted with franchising agreements.

[TbayON]

I agree that mixed-use would be most ideal for the location but, since it is already zoned commercial and the city is trying to keep Innova for their mining centre, I still think this is going to be the next lot to be re-developed and made into big-box retail.

I'm sure if some outfit offered enough for the land and promised to build enough, the city will still gladly allow retail construction in Innova despite the mining centre concept. The mayor has claimed in the media the mining industry is more interested in other areas of the city than Innova. He really didn't elaborate any more than that, but I am assuming that came from conversation he has had with people in the industry.

Unless someone buys up all the lots on the east side of Fort William Rd between Burbidge and Main or strikes a deal with the Harbour Commision for all the land between the tracks and Manitoulin. The city is running out of large space in the Intercity area that would be suitable for a big box development. Most retailers want to be with other retailers in order to create "synergy" and "excitement". Going stand-alone is going to be difficult no matter what way you position yourself, unless you are going big.

You think retail would want to develop on the east side of the tracks over the Main St. bridge? I'm not so sure about that because the tracks create such a disconnect with the rest of the city. Kind of a barrier in people's minds. Costco is probably the one retailer that immediately comes to mind that could anchor a retail development away from Intercity. I'm pretty sure a smaller Best Buy or something like that would follow right behind and it would all go from there.

The only other large lot of land that could be remade into a suitable sized Big Box retail centre is the former Riverview Raceway lands. I think that was proposed at one point but I think the financing and interest wasn't there. I could be wrong about that. No doubt the retail owners in and around Arthur Street Marketplace would have been ready to fight that one tooth and nail.

Yea the Friends of the Kam River or some shit like that would have something to say about it in addition to retailers at Arthur St Marketplace.

I am pretty sure Thunder Bay has a shortage of qualified restaurant managers. I don't know why, but that seems to be the issue that prevents a lot of chain restaurants from opening here. Those who are here, seem more interested in starting their own restaurant than being restricted with franchising agreements.

Its not only what's in the agreements themselves, its also that people in Thunder Bay tend to be more, lets say thrifty, don't have good access to start-up capital for fees charged by the chains and tend to be all around more independent as well. I don't think its a bad thing personally, a lot of the large chain restaurants don't have the greatest food anyways since meals come frozen in a box to the restaurant, and then are "cooked". I have really noticed that living in Dryden, where the best restaurants in town are the one-hit wonders, not the big chain places.

[vid]

I recently heard that Boston Pizza's food is shipped to the restaurant in bags and then microwaved. :yuck:

I think the main reason retail businesses won't locate in the harbour area would be the bottlenecks created by the two lane bridges and poor road infrastructure. The roads in the area would all need significant upgrades to accommodate the traffic created by a Costco. Innova Park is kind of screwed now because there are a few offices sprinkled on top of it, but RioCann and Thunder Centre both worked around that, and any future developer can do the same.

Mining companies are probably looking at setting up near the airport as opposed to Innova Park. It would be the most convenient place since most of the mines are going to be connected by air, not highways. They could fly between their office/hanger and the mine.

[F. Lionel]

I recently heard that Boston Pizza's food is shipped to the restaurant in bags and then microwaved. :yuck:

It's been a decade since I worked their but I can tell you that we definitely made the food on site. All of it had to be cooked/prepared fresh and the only things that came "pre-made" were the croutons, salad dressings, chicken fingers, and the bases for the cream sauces. But that was a long time ago. I know they still have the big ovens though.


I think the main reason retail businesses won't locate in the harbour area would be the bottlenecks created by the two lane bridges and poor road infrastructure. The roads in the area would all need significant upgrades to accommodate the traffic created by a Costco. Innova Park is kind of screwed now because there are a few offices sprinkled on top of it, but RioCann and Thunder Centre both worked around that, and any future developer can do the same.

You think retail would want to develop on the east side of the tracks over the Main St. bridge? I'm not so sure about that because the tracks create such a disconnect with the rest of the city. Kind of a barrier in people's minds. Costco is probably the one retailer that immediately comes to mind that could anchor a retail development away from Intercity. I'm pretty sure a smaller Best Buy or something like that would follow right behind and it would all go from there.

If the new development across the bridge was anchored by Costco then people would drive. I agree that the tracks definitely create a disconnect but it's easily remedied depending on who anchors the development. Interestingly those same tracks cut the East End off from the city but it's not such a complete disconnect. A similar argument could be made that people view the Expressway in the same way but only at its southern end. The Valhalla, Arthur Street Marketplace, the Airport - when a local gives directions then whatever you are looking for is "Out By..." one of those places. I don't often (if at all) hear someone say that something is "out by County Fair." It's a matter of perception and those change given time.

As for the infrastructure - all the roads in the harbour area are in need of reconstuction and upgrading. It is possible, however, that this will all take place as Sleeping Giant Parkway is expanded up to Intercity, and eventually
the East End. That route has yet to be decided up and could/should/will be built with future development in mind.

I'm sure if some outfit offered enough for the land and promised to build enough, the city will still gladly allow retail construction in Innova despite the mining centre concept. The mayor has claimed in the media the mining industry is more interested in other areas of the city than Innova. He really didn't elaborate any more than that, but I am assuming that came from conversation he has had with people in the industry.

Mining companies are probably looking at setting up near the airport as opposed to Innova Park. It would be the most convenient place since most of the mines are going to be connected by air, not highways. They could fly between their office/hanger and the mine.

I agree that most mining companies will be more interested in the Business park at the Airport for that singular reason. We fly you into town, you stay at the Hilton, you come to our office, we fly you to the mine site. The other cluster of mining companies will be around Balmoral and the Harbour Expressway (because it's already started). If there were to be a third then I would suggest Simpson Street.

Hobbs is getting his information (I believe) from the consultant's report about Innova Park and the Mining Centre of Excellence. The consultants interviewed or surveyed most of the local mining companies and almost all of them said that they had no interest in moving to Innova Park from their current locations.

[vid]

Interestingly those same tracks cut the East End off from the city but it's not such a complete disconnect.

That's because you can talk to people walking along the other side of the tracks. There is a rail yard between Intercity and the port, there are just 5 lanes of railway tracks under the East End Bridge. And people cross above or below the tracks there all the time.


I don't often (if at all) hear someone say that something is "out by County Fair." It's a matter of perception and those change given time.

Growing up in Jumbo Gardens, crossing the expressway into "the city" was often a significant event. But that was when the area was half the size it is now (albeit with more economic activity).

If there were to be a third then I would suggest Simpson Street.

The main reason for that would be the available space, although there isn't much of it left. I think Furniture Recycle is moving or closing, though. The building is for sale but the business is still operating.

There is room for new construction, but I think if a company is going to pay to build a new building, they'll probably go to where it is cheaper.

Hobbs is getting his information (I believe) from the consultant's report about Innova Park and the Mining Centre of Excellence. The consultants interviewed or surveyed most of the local mining companies and almost all of them said that they had no interest in moving to Innova Park from their current locations.

That's because they already have locations that they've invested money into. A few that need newer or larger facilities might go to Innova but for the most part I think they're going to remain spread out across the city.

[TbayON]

If the new development across the bridge was anchored by Costco then people would drive.

True, but I can't see them building out there still. There are many other locations in the city with better access near major routes that would be better suited to Costco. I won't for a second pretend people wouldn't cross the bridge to get there though. I think waterfront lands are better left for other purposes than commercial retail too. Now that the city seems to be moving away from allowing industrial development in the area of the Kam River and the Islands, in addition to the area around Prince Arthur's Landing, some land elsewhere needs to remain available should major expansion ever need to occur at the port. I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Bison Trucking establish a facility here. They currently use buildings at Keefer Terminal and have a fenced area for trailer storage, but their presence in Thunder Bay seems ever increasing.

I agree that most mining companies will be more interested in the Business park at the Airport for that singular reason. We fly you into town, you stay at the Hilton, you come to our office, we fly you to the mine site. The other cluster of mining companies will be around Balmoral and the Harbour Expressway (because it's already started). If there were to be a third then I would suggest Simpson Street.

I hope the airport is able to open up some more serviced land for development. There is a ton of potential there. I have heard discussion of them doing this, but there seems to be little action so far. The airport is booming and experiencing growth just as rapid as the mining industry right now (makes sense) so I think they need to be a little more aggressive is pursuing opportunities for growth. BLIG is already located on Hardisty. When you look at Simpson St. now, there aren't a whole lot of suitable locations for mining companies available, due in good part to recent demolitions and fires.

Hobbs is getting his information (I believe) from the consultant's report about Innova Park and the Mining Centre of Excellence. The consultants interviewed or surveyed most of the local mining companies and almost all of them said that they had no interest in moving to Innova Park from their current locations.

I thought the consultant came out in favour of the proposal to make Innova a mining centre? Or at least that is the feeling I got from media reporting. In addition to what Vid said about this point, I don't think many of the companies currently operating in Thunder Bay are ready for the kind of expansion Innova entails. One would probably be building a decent sized facility, and would need to follow design details required for development in Innova. I'm pretty sure the mining industry isn't there yet locally. I realize we have to have an eye on the future too though. Even a larger player (T-Bay wise anyways) like ActLabs is only purchasing existing buildings, and they seem happy (or at least content) having 3 or 4 different locations in Thunder Bay instead of one large facility.

I'm interested to see though once True Grit gets construction going on their new office and lab (if it hasn't already started, I think it was out for bids or pricing a couple months ago) if more companies start to consider Innova. I believe the upgrades planned for Golf Links Rd may help with development too once those are complete.

In addition, I think its about time some local investors or a couple developers of some sort put up a few larger spaces in Thunder Bay for lease or development. There is a real lack of large, modern buildings in this city for manufacturing/warehousing/large office space that is probably a real impediment to economic growth here. Going back to ActLabs, they had real trouble getting space suitable for their needs here. Many companies don't want the trouble of building or developing themselves, they rather just find something move-in ready and establish themselves there.

[TbayON]

The city provided an update on the waterfront today, and its all good news! A local restaurant is moving into the water garden building this summer. No name was given by the city as to who the restauranteur is, which is smart, let the private sector partner to announce their intentions when they are ready. I haven't heard any rumours as to who, so I'm not even going to guess. I guess TJ's Ice Cream Shoppe has already moved in down there somewhere as well.

Construction has begun on the parking garage and the model/show room condo unit as well.

[F. Lionel]

Construction has begun on the Toys'R'Us, as promised.

Swiss Chalet is completed and open.

PitaPit has opened a second location in the former Quiznos on Red River Rd.

I was thinking about taking a walk through the Marina tonight or tomorrow evening to see where TJs is located. Unless they replaced the small cantina in the Pavillion the only other place they could go is into the Utility Building by the duck pond. Or maybe they have a lease with the developer to be in the station? Not too many other spaces...

[vid]

Jon Hendel has published a Transit Route concept map at CPTDB:


Proposed route network concept map:
https://www.dropbox....t_MAP_PRINT.pdf (https://www.dropbox.com/s/saxhbetlbp6ztv5/COTB_Transit_MAP_PRINT.pdf)


Discussion (http://www.cptdb.ca/index.php?showtopic=2206&st=1480)

--

For all my grandparents complained about the waterfront, my grandmother has been going there on an almost daily basis for months, and my grandpa seems to enjoy it when we drag him down there too.

[F. Lionel]

Jon Hendel has published a Transit Route concept map at CPTDB.

I've tried viewing this PDF at home and can't see it. I can see it at work but can't log onto the board there to discuss so I will say a few things right here.

Overall the routing is quite good - the small details are excellent. The Orange Line turning at Ray Blvd instead of Rupert is a logical change as one example.

I like the idea of using colours to designate the routes but I would use them to differentiate cross-city routes from neighbourhood routes rather than have a different colour for each line. I would use Lime for neighbourhood, Blue for cross-city, Yellow for Express Lines, and Red for Specials.

Some of the lines are too long and become impractical. Specifically: The Green Line is too long and meanders over most of the city. It would be more practical if it were divided into two lines. Some areas would be better served by lower frequency neighbourhood lines rather than the long meandering lines.

The only other changes I would make are that the Orange line should terminate at Intercity instead of running to the terminal at City Hall. The second change would be to continue to offer some sort of transit service to Arthur Street Marketplace and the Airport Buiness Park.

Just my thoughts over all though. I still think it's a very solid concept on paper.

[vid]

I like the idea of using colours to designate the routes but I would use them to differentiate cross-city routes from neighbourhood routes rather than have a different colour for each line. I would use Lime for neighbourhood, Blue for cross-city, Yellow for Express Lines, and Red for Specials.

These were covered at November's transit meeting. I suggested using the same colour for every line (as sort of a joke) and they said that it would probably confuse people, and he pointed to Edmonton's transit map as an example:

http://i.imgur.com/tBsCt.jpg

Besides that, features like Express Routes and limited service routes are being considered but not put onto the maps at this time. I'm kind of surprised they put the Neebing/Mission route on here.

You could cut the neighbourhood routes off of the routes going between terminals in the central part of the city, but then you'd have a lot of interlining and it would get confusing.

Some of the lines are too long and become impractical. Specifically: The Green Line is too long and meanders over most of the city. It would be more practical if it were divided into two lines. Some areas would be better served by lower frequency neighbourhood lines rather than the long meandering lines.

The point was to connect neighbourhoods to as many focal points as possible, and have people transfer from one bus to another at those focal points to reach their destination faster. Obviously, people will not take the Green Line to go from Water Street to County Fair, they'll take the Orange Line. (Although if the Orange and Green lines are named the same as the current Orange and Yellow lines, we're going to continue to see confusion; too many people take the Junot to get from Water Street to Intercity, a 45 minute trip that should only take 15 minutes.)

If you look at each route with an anchor point not on the terminals, but on the middle points between terminals, it becomes a little less convoluted:

North End is on the Green Line, 15 minutes to either Water Street or County Fair

Sherwood Estates is on the Orange Line, 20 minutes to either Intercity or Water Street

Northwood is on the Purple and Blue lines. 20 minutes to either Intercity or City Hall

Westfort is on the Grey and Red Lines. Five minutes to Airport, 15 minutes to City Hall or College

Academy Heights is on the Brown Line, five minutes to LU or Intercity

The only other changes I would make are that the Orange line should terminate at Intercity instead of running to the terminal at City Hall.

I think it does that to maintain the 15 minute frequency on May Street. Without that, we'd only have four buses connecting Intercity and City Hall on a regular basis. With the new system, City Hall likely won't handle as many passengers, but considering the existing set-up is overcrowded during rush hour, I figure more frequent service will still be needed.

The second change would be to continue to offer some sort of transit service to Arthur Street Marketplace and the Airport Buiness Park.

The Grey Line does that. It does a loop on Edward, Fassina, Neebing, Expressway and Arthur, with service to the mall (not shown but likely to continue) and ACE as a spur off of that.

[TbayON]

Could be good news or could be not so good news I guess, specifically for downtown P.A.:
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/210866/Doubling-down?

I don't think I agree with the mayor's proposal. I'm not sure exactly what spot in town he means by the highway, but I am going to assume Innova since its probably the only place with enough land by the expressway within city limits. It seems pretty counter-intuitive to put as much money as the city has into the waterfront, just for the mayor to suggest the casino go elsewhere. I would rather see the existing location renovated myself, and an addition put on if required, for say, a hotel or something. The casino really isn't all that flashy on the outside for a place that wants to attract people in. Judging by the numbers in the story though, I guess it doesn't need to be.

Coran's Music on Victoria Ave. is closing:
http://www.chroniclejournal.com/content/news/local/2012/05/22/time-move-coran%E2%80%99s-music-centre-closing-after-more-50-years

As the article states, the business has been in operation for greater than 50 years. The owner is moving on to other musical endeavors and the store has already been sold. I suppose this means a new business will be opening up on Victoria next month, unless someone has bought it on speculation or with the intent of renting the space out.

[vid]

Could be good news or could be not so good news I guess, specifically for downtown P.A.:
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/210866/Doubling-down?

I don't think I agree with the mayor's proposal. I'm not sure exactly what spot in town he means by the highway, but I am going to assume Innova since its probably the only place with enough land by the expressway within city limits. It seems pretty counter-intuitive to put as much money as the city has into the waterfront, just for the mayor to suggest the casino go elsewhere. I would rather see the existing location renovated myself, and an addition put on if required, for say, a hotel or something. The casino really isn't all that flashy on the outside for a place that wants to attract people in. Judging by the numbers in the story though, I guess it doesn't need to be.

Judging by the success of previous endeavors to move something, anything, into Innova Park, I am both very confident that that is the land Hobbs is thinking of, and very confident that it will never happen.

An interesting development to say the least.

[TbayON]

Dalton McGuinty is coming to Thunder Bay tomorrow morning to tour the Bombardier plant (again, how many times has he done that now?) and make some kind of announcement at the end of his tour. Nobody is saying too much about what he will announce. If I had to guess, I would say he is either re-announcing something we already knew about to make himself look good or he will be announcing another commuter rail-car purchase for the GTA. My hope is he has something a little more exciting than that, which is possible.

The release of phase 2 of the events centre feasibility study has been pushed back to September, from June. The consulting team required more time to fully study and design the thing. I personally don't mind them taking longer, so much as it means the quality and accuracy of the report will be that much better.

[vid]

Regarding the demolition of Rae's Furs on Simpson Street, a part of the building has been left standing for some reason. The basement hole was filled in and fences removed, so there is now just a cinder block structure left over from the building sitting in a dirt lot. I have no idea what is going on.

[Dwils01]

Two six floor apartment buildings will be built on Second Line East where the new Pine Street Extension will go to.

Two new 68-unit apartment buildings will be constructed on Second Line East
City council gave a nod of approval Monday to a planning application filed by Antonio M. Ruscio.
The applicant has now rezoned property on Second Line East, just east of Old Garden River Road and near the
new Pine Street entrance, from rural area to medium-density residential.

Read More Here: http://www.city.sault-ste-marie.on.ca/contentadmin/UserFiles/File/CityDepartments/Clerks/MediaArchive/2012/SaultStar/05%20152ndLineApts.pdf

[tbay87]

They've started placing cement blocks on some of the vacant properties on may street by the beer store as well as that lot by the cigar shop, one lot they had chains between the cement blocks. these lots have been vacant for a long time i wonder whats going on. no more free parking i guess.

[TbayON]

They've started placing cement blocks on some of the vacant properties on may street by the beer store as well as that lot by the cigar shop, one lot they had chains between the cement blocks. these lots have been vacant for a long time i wonder whats going on. no more free parking i guess.

It could be for parking I suppose. I'm not sure what is going on either, but I do know with the courthouse now taking up so much space, the south core is short parking spots. Maybe these will become paid parking lots? Seems a little far from the south core for that (especially for Thunder Bay, no one here wants to walk more than 50 feet from their parking spot it seems), but its possible.

[vid]

I know a lot of owners of vacant land in the downtown core are in the process of turning their properties into private parking.

[TbayON]

Since I am in Dryden for a while, I might as well update everyone on developments happening here:

The proposal put forth by First Nations to re-develop the old Pinewood Elementary School in town has been withdrawn. They cited public concerns and comments from town leaders as the reasons for discontinuing the process of turning the former school into a Transitional School for students from northern, remote communities. The involved First Nations did pledge to continue working with Dryden and the school board in developing "other opportunities" though.

The Dryden Development Corporation is examining the potential for putting a lumber drying and planing facility in the Norwill Industrial Park. The facility is meant to purchase locally sawn lumber to dry it and dress it for sale to value added manufacturers. A feasibility study was just completed, which concluded the existing volume of lumber produced could sustain such a facility.

The new turbine that was built at the Domtar Dryden pulp mill was put into commission recently. A ribbon cutting ceremony was held this past Tuesday. The turbine was funded by the federal government a couple years back, and is producing electricity in house, reducing overall operating costs for the mill. Domtar had bigger plans for electricity production, but were unsuccessful in an application to the province's feed in tariff program. Still, the mill hopes to expand production of energy in the future.

The new OPP station on Hwy 17 east of town is coming along. The facility is on budget and on time. The move in date for the OPP to take the keys to the new 15000 sq. ft. building is July 17th.

The new water and sewage treatment, which is being built just off Hwy 17 on the west side of town (on Margeurite St.), is behind schedule a bit. It is supposed to come online by October. The price of the new facility is almost $30 million.

I intend on getting pictures of the last two items to post, but I keep forgetting.

TBNews is also reporting Wagner Ontario Forest Management is no longer interested in constructing a pellet plant in Ignace. Wagner received a wood allocation under the Ontario "Wood Supply Competition" fiasco a while back when their plan to build the plant landed them an allocation of 133 500 cubic metres/year of merchantable and unmerchantable timber. It was reported Wagner sees no market for pellets produced in Ignace due to competition from other jurisdictions and transportation issues. I hope someone jumps all over this because a Dryden fuel supplier (Bryan Tardiff) and an Ignace contractor with haul trucks (Louie Ricci, Ricci Trucking) formed a company called Far North Biomass. Far North Biomass' objective was to build a pellet plant in Ignace and develop a European-style district heating system in Dryden. Lambion Energy of Germany and Gilles Biomass Heating of Austria even got on board with the plan and Tardiff would have become the North American distributor of biomass equipment for Gilles. But all that would have empowered a local, northern economy, and god forbid the provincial government ever do that or allow it to happen.

[tjernobyl]

Dalton McGuinty is coming to Thunder Bay tomorrow morning to tour the Bombardier plant (again, how many times has he done that now?) and make some kind of announcement at the end of his tour. Nobody is saying too much about what he will announce. If I had to guess, I would say he is either re-announcing something we already knew about to make himself look good or he will be announcing another commuter rail-car purchase for the GTA. My hope is he has something a little more exciting than that, which is possible.

200 million, 60 cars, 100 jobs. No surprises; I thought this one had already been announced.

Regarding the demolition of Rae's Furs on Simpson Street, a part of the building has been left standing for some reason. The basement hole was filled in and fences removed, so there is now just a cinder block structure left over from the building sitting in a dirt lot. I have no idea what is going on.

To my understanding, the rear portion of the original building was a fur storage facility. As such, I guess it could be usable as a shed without much modification.

They've started placing cement blocks on some of the vacant properties on may street by the beer store as well as that lot by the cigar shop, one lot they had chains between the cement blocks. these lots have been vacant for a long time i wonder whats going on. no more free parking i guess.

There were signs up regarding environmental testing a while back. I believe many of them were former automotive service facilities at one point; cheaper to let sit than rehabilitate.

Serious flooding going on today. The City is under a state of emergency, as are some surrounding areas. 11-17 is washed out in Conmee, as are many other roads. Northwood Mall is flooded. Many reports of sewage backflows in basements in the East End and inland past May Street. A portion of the sewage treatment plant is underwater; citizens are asked to minimize any non-essential flushing. Kakabeka Falls is spectacular.

http://www.lakeheadca.com/FloodStatus.htm
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/211648/Emergencies-declared
http://www.thunderbay.ca/City_Government/News_and_Strategic_Initiatives/News_Releases/Major_Flooding_Affects_Sewage_Treatment_Plant.htm?DateTime=634737834000000000&PageMode=View
http://www.thunderbay.ca/Police/Media_Releases.htm
http://netnewsledger.com/2012/05/28/flooded-basements-and-roads-causing-havoc-in-thunder-bay/
http://netnewsledger.com/2012/05/26/kakabeka-falls-has-massive-water-volumes-flowing-over-the-falls/

[TbayON]

200 million, 60 cars, 100 jobs. No surprises; I thought this one had already been announced.

I believe this is a new order, one that had not yet been announced. The cars being built for this order are of a new design, but are still bi-levels as per Metrolinx's operation. The new style car is still in the design stage, and if I understand correctly deliveries won't start until 2015. In other words, the actual building of the cars and most of the 100 jobs are still out on the horizon a bit. If there is one thing I can commend the current provincial government for, its realizing the need to vastly improve mass transit systems in the GTA. That city would not be able to continue to function healthily without major mass transit investments.

Serious flooding going on today. The City is under a state of emergency, as are some surrounding areas. 11-17 is washed out in Conmee, as are many other roads. Northwood Mall is flooded. Many reports of sewage backflows in basements in the East End and inland past May Street. A portion of the sewage treatment plant is underwater; citizens are asked to minimize any non-essential flushing. Kakabeka Falls is spectacular.

Sounds like another round of major work for restoration companies in Thunder Bay. Just like in 2008 (I think) when the last major flooding occured, out of town workers from the larger restoration companies will need to be brought in. The north side of town will all have new roofs, and the south side of town will now have all new basements. The insurance companies, well, they are paying out a lot of money in this town the last couple years.

Hopefully damage at the sewage treatment plant isn't too bad. I'm not sure what will happen if that thing can't run for any extended length of time. People can only not flush and avoid showering for so long and doing other daily tasks.

[TbayON]

double post

[vid]

Just replace the content with "double post".

--

This could be worse. If we had gotten maybe only 10mm more rain, the Neebing would have gone over its banks and flooded large sections of the city and made the problems in the East End and south Port Arthur that much worse.

I won't be surprised if the sewage plant is down for more than two months. Regardless, I'm taking a shower today. I was lucky enough to squeeze one in on Sunday night just before the storm hit but I don't want to go too long without it. :(

[TbayON]

A couple flood updates...

The city still doesn't know why the sewage treatment plant failed yet. With no further precipitation, the plant still won't be pumped out for another 24 hours. A temporary pumping set-up will be up and running in 36 hours, which should reduce the need for people to hold off on flushing water down the system.

Highway 11/17 could be closed up to two weeks between the Harbour Expressway and Kakabeka Falls. The OPP is reporting some of the worst washouts from this storm are found on that stretch of road. This is not surprising, since the MTO rather wait for roads to wash out in this part of the province before deciding to take any action when they already know there is a possible problem or a section of road is at risk.

As a result of flooding, the Resolute Sawmill has also shut down, but luckily it sounds like only until the end of the week. Damage to the bush road network is the cause and Resolute rather feed the pulp mill wood over the sawmill. I know driving the bush roads for work around Dryden, especially towards Ignace, for my job the past week has definitely not been easy and we didn't see near the worst of the rain. I can only imagine how bad it is around T Bay.

A few other things:

City council gave the go-ahead to applicant Ryan Jones to develop a 25 lot subdivision with 2 green spaces off of Mountain Rd last night. Single detached homes will be constructed. Linda Rydholm, who was against the proposal, said there are already 300 new homes being planned for Neebing Ward, with 100 along Mountain Rd.

The owners of the Painted Turtle Art Shop are going to run the Baggage Building Arts Centre at Prince Arthur's Landing. The centre is set to open up June 15th. HA! The naysayer peanut gallery is getting quieter all the time!

Lee Stuesser has been hired as the first Law School Dean at L.U. Other staff hirings are to begin in the near future. The school will begin offering classes in Fall 2013. Its exciting to see PACI start to bustle with activity again.

The Wabigoon Lake Ojibway First Nation is courting Dryden's support to place a casino somewhere in Dryden city limits. The rumour is it would be built at Eagle's Landing Golf Course. A feasibility study will be completed by June 15th, but studies have already been completed that indicate the Dryden area can support a casino.

[shreddog]

Heard that the Whalen building was damaged by lightning - but can't find anything in the local media - can anyone confirm or deny? thx.

NM - found the article here (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/story/2012/05/24/tby-heritage-building-lightning.html)

BTW, can if anyone has any pictures of the floodway out by Chapples, they would be much appreciated ....

[russman]

BTW, can if anyone has any pictures of the floodway out by Chapples, they would be much appreciated ....

I took some photos of the diversion channel on Monday & Tuesday.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7098/7303320136_a3f57431d0_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7303322082_8cf4fe3da2_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8148/7303325888_e3628a5c47_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7303323922_21171555e0_b.jpg

[TbayON]

Nor-Ont Resources has delayed releasing their feasibility study following the announcement by Cliffs about their transportation and processing intentions a couple weeks ago. Nor-Ont wants to take more time to study the implications of Cliffs using a north-south all weather road and the placement of the ferrochrome processing unit in Sudbury and how it will affect Nor-Ont's decisions in developing their deposits. I believe Nor-Ont favoured an east-west road through Webequie Junction, which I have heard is not a possibility in reality due to the geography up there.

There was a comment made on one of the CBC news articles concerning the local flooding that the N.A.P. Lac Des Iles mine was severely flooded and that workers have been sent home. I looked on the company site and searched around quickly, but could find no confirmation of what the poster on the CBC site said. We heard about the Resolute sawmill shut-down fairly quickly, so hopefully this is just something spun out of the rumour mill and not true, but time will tell for sure.

The Canadian Red Cross and the Salvation Army are taking donations to help victims of the Thunder Bay flooding nation-wide now. The easiest way to donate is probably to go on the Red Cross website, or to call either organization directly.

[shreddog]

I took some photos of the diversion channel on Monday & Tuesday.


WOW!!!

Thanks for the photos - I love seeing it full ... and imagining what would be going on in the east end if that weren't there ...

Also, looking at the flow on the downside of the diversion dam, any idea how high was the water at the pedestrian bridge by Delaney? Years ago during another flood situation they had some serious problems with the side shoring on that bridge.

Hope you all stayed dry!

[shreddog]

dp ... nm

[vid]

I don't think Lac Des Iles is closed. We've been supplying them with water the whole time, and they don't buy water when they're down.

Demand for bottled water has gotten so high that our depots are selling out on the same day that we stock them. It's starting to calm down but it is still insanely busy. I don't even want to think of what kind of chaos it would be if the city's drinking water supply was affected.

[TbayON]

I don't think Lac Des Iles is closed. We've been supplying them with water the whole time, and they don't buy water when they're down.

I was pretty skeptical of the comment when I read it, so I thought I would post it here anyway in hopes I would get a response something along the lines of something you just said. People talk in Thunder Bay, so it would've hit the media eventually (by now) and there most definitely would've been a press release to investors and stockholders by this point in time from the company.

Demand for bottled water has gotten so high that our depots are selling out on the same day that we stock them. It's starting to calm down but it is still insanely busy. I don't even want to think of what kind of chaos it would be if the city's drinking water supply was affected.

Best case scenario would have been just a boil water advisory due to contamination because of all the rain. Worst case scenario, the military's DART team would be called in. They have portable water pumping/treatment/purification units for areas hit by natural disasters where drinking water is required but unavailable (especially in third countries hit by massive devastating disasters, like Haiti with the earthquake). Water would also be trucked in from every conceivable direction in whatever form possible, whether in bottles or bulk.

[tjernobyl]

The intake is far enough into Lake Superior that I figure contamination from runoff would be fairly unlikely. The current in the bay is clockwise, so it would be relatively downcurrent from the plant, but there's plenty of room to diffuse.

A lot of rumours were going around about the water being unsafe to drink. Something about 'water treatment plant' and 'sewage plant' both having 'plant' in their names.