[Gitfiddler]

Fort Frances Library:

http://library.fort-frances.com/files/imagecache/Large/IMG_0513.JPG?

This is from a few weeks ago. As of today, driving by it looks like all that is left is to put in windows and they can move inside for the winter.

Other developments in Fort Frances:

A new two story elementary school is being built on Third St. and Crowe Ave, to replace Robert Moore School. Major structural construction looks to be complete, and they should be moving onto indoor work within the next few weeks.

Boston Pizza is completed and opened on Kings Highway, next door to the Super 8.

"The Hallet" has been moved from it's previous location at Pither's Point to a waterfront location on Laverendrye Parkway, as has the "lookout tower," a 6 story fire ranger lookout that was also previously at the Point.

A condo development is also approved for the Parkway, in an adjacent lot to the Riverview Condos that were built a few years ago.

Treaty Three Police are building a new detachment on Couchiching, which is a native community just east of Fort Frances.

Lots of things going on in Fort Frances, particularly along Laverendrye, which is all fine and good. . . except they've sunk millions of dollars into it over the last few years and it still lacks anything much beyond local traffic. The idea behind moving the Hallet and the lookout tower is to get tourists travelling the scenic route, but since the Hwy 11 intersection is at Second St, it's not exactly on the way to anywhere.

However, there is going to be some development across the river at Voyageur National Park in Minnesota. A new welcome centre will be built, with waterfront presence directly across from the parkway, near where the US Customs boat check in is located. They are also going to start riverboat tours, and with the Sorting Gap Marina on the Canadian side (which is serviced by CBSA) there is potential to draw people in by that route.

As for the new customs plaza in the Soo, here is a render from Northern Ontario Business:

http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/uploadedImages/Industry-News/government/conceptualCBSA_PLAZA_1.jpg

[vid]

^My great grandmother is from "the cooch". My brother stayed at that Super 8 during a hockey tournament years ago, and he was all excited about it, like it was the best place in the world.

Main Street should be renamed Harbour Road.

Unless it becomes an absolute necessity for it to be so I don't see why. Many cities function without their main streets being called Main Street. (Look at New York and Toronto.) If anything, the main street having a different name adds to the city's identity. Look at Figueroa, Broadway, or Yonge. When you say the street's name, a mental picture of that city appears. What they should do is give those stretched numbered like they did in Winnipeg, or further promote the Friendship, Bayview and Memorial routes (and maybe add more), to ease navigation. They're too poorly signed right now. Those names should be given equal weight to the street name, signed at all intersections and on maps.

Yes, this is an unofficial expressway.

I would consider them to be simply arterial. Expressways are so because there are so few stops, you go from where you are to where you're going with stops only at the two or three more important places. Look at the expressway between Two Harbors and Duluth. Only a handful of intersections, miles apart.

An expressway is a divided highway for high-speed traffic with at least partial control of access. The degree of access allowed varies between countries and even between regions within the same country. In some jurisdictions, expressways are divided arterial roads with limits on the frequency of driveways and intersecting cross-streets. In other jurisdictions, access to expressways is limited only to grade-separated interchanges, making them the full equivalent of freeways.

No such limits seem to exist for any of these roads, save the Thunder Bay Expressway where new intersections require MTO approval. (And they don't approve.)

I don't really think that three traffic lights between the Expressway and Memorial are really enough to consider it not an Expressway.

They are within a kilometre of each other! The stop lights are more spaced out on any kilometre of Memorial than they are on the Expressway!

These intersections could be upgraded to diamond interchanges fairly easily as well, if needed in the future. Then of course, it would be a freeway and not an expressway. It's important to distinguish between them.

It wouldn't be a freeway unless all intersections were interchanges, and that won't happen for a long time. Until then, it is simply an arterial that is more separated from adjacent land uses than other arterials.

we do not want Simpson Street to overshadow the downtown core.

We want it to compliment it. Like Yonge Street compliments downtown Toronto. It is an access corridor, the road that brings you to downtown.

Why don't we just raze the whole street and four lane it. :P

Someone actually proposed that, but for Hardisty. Personally, I am not a fan of having a freeway in my backyard and we would have to raze a couple historic buildings for it. They also recommended turning Simpson into a mile long pedestrian mall. It would be the longest in Canada, by far, if we went ahead with that.

Do you have an idea of how the hallways are attached to the buildings? I imagine if they were ever to be removed it would be a nightmare. There would probably be a huge mess left behind as well, requiring millions of dollars in facade restorations. If this ever was to be done though, it would restore our long urban corridor (or at least part of it).

The hallways have their own supports, they're only bolted to the buildings to hold them in place and keep water out (and they don't do a good job--the whole thing is leaky, especially between the food court and RBC). Many of the buildings' storefronts are not weather proof. The cost of removing the mall and rebuilding the street, renovating the storefronts and landscaping the stubs of Syndicate will very likely have a total cost that eclipses the mall's construction.

[Gitfiddler]

^My great grandmother is from "the cooch". My brother stayed at that Super 8 during a hockey tournament years ago, and he was all excited about it, like it was the best place in the world.


Nice. Is she a Bruyere or a Mainville?

Super 8 is a decent hotel. It's owned by the same group as the Kenora Super 8. They also own the lot where BP was built.

For a small town, there's quite a bit going on right now.

If only they'd ever develop the wood lot between Scott St and Laverendrye, they could really build something spectacular.

[vid]

My Grandmother is Lee, I don't know what my great grandmother was.

[russman]

From the city's official plan;

Expressways are planned, designed and constructed to carry
large volumes of long distance and intra-municipal traffic at relatively high
speeds. The minimum right-of-way width of an expressway is 36 metres,
although 50 metres is considered desirable. The Harbour Expressway is the
only example of an expressway under the jurisdiction of the City.


It may have 3 lights between Memorial and the Expressway, but Arthur Street has 8 in that stretch, and Red River has 6.

If there indeed is a parkade built at Patterson Park, Brodie Street could be reconstructed between Miles and Leith to help reroute traffic from the closed portion of Syndicate, as well as to separate the park from the parkade.

[F. Lionel]

Terminal One (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=71648)
By Jamie Smith tbnewswatch.com
...

"We’ve come to the conclusion that there is no viable site in the long term," said Fletcher. "Our alternative then is to look at a centralized terminal."

A stipulation of the new provincial courthouse states that a terminal cannot be within 300 metres of the building. Out of a possible 14 sites studied, Fletcher said the best three locations for a temporary site after Brodie’s closure are North Street, the former KAM Motors lot and the Larizza lot. While he stressed the study would not suggest a particular site if the city opted for one central bus terminal, Fletcher did outline three possible sites in the Intercity area. The transit central maintenance building on Fort William Road, in front of the Superstore on the Harbour Expressway and the former Sears Auto Centre also on Fort William Road would all be suitable sites said Fletcher.

The Ski Haus owner Bill Scollie, who’s business is across the street from the terminal, said he would like to see one central terminal.

"I have some great concerns about the safety of our customers, safety of the community," said Scollie. "The simple solution is we’re going to tear them ( Water Street and Brodie Street terminals) both down…when I hear that I will smile from ear to ear."
...

"I have to commend the parking authority for getting some additional short-term parking in our area…they’ve done the best job they could with the limited amount of space," said Scollie. "Yes it’s going to be a little tight. Yes there’s going to be disruption. And I think we have to live through it because the end result is going to be worth it. You can’t be negative all the time."
...


14 different sites? I didn't think there would be that many spots in and around downtown FW.

I like the idea of a centralized transit station in the Intercity Area. I would support a new station on the land in front of the Superstore. There's enough space to build a big enough area for all the buses. The former Sears Automotive lot is smaller, I think, but would be an acceptable alternative. It might lead to more pedestrian-traffic-train encounters though (but is best placed for that dream of a cross-city LRT service). The area of the transit barn is too remote from the main commercial clusters and is not centralized enough to the city. Hopefully the accompanied re-jig of the city transit lines (should this plan go forward) will be optimal and wipe away a lot of the historical nonsense that plagues our transit services.

I also left the quote at the end from Scollie because I liked it and it seems to best sum up the attitude of many in this city as of late.

[vid]

If there indeed is a parkade built at Patterson Park, Brodie Street could be reconstructed between Miles and Leith to help reroute traffic from the closed portion of Syndicate, as well as to separate the park from the parkade.

I don't think Brodie Street ever went through there. Before Patterson Park and that parking lot, Fort William Central School was on that site. If Brodie went through there, it was built over by 1894. They said that any new parkades or expansion of Victoriaville's parkade are long-term future plans, so it won't happen until after 2012. Possibly not until 2015 or 2020.

14 different sites? I didn't think there would be that many spots in and around downtown FW.

They are: Short-listed; (drawbacks)

1. On-street on Leith (too close to the courthouse, no space for a terminal building, too small)
2. On-street on Brodie between Donald and Miles (too close to the courthouse, no space for a terminal building, too long)
3. On-street on Syndicate between Miles and Leith (too close to the courthouse, no space for a terminal building, too short and only one way access once courthouse is built)
4. On-street on Brodie between Donald and Arthur (no space for a terminal building, too short)
5. On-street on Archibald between Victoria and Chapples Lane (too small; the guy in charge of the study actually laughed about this site and #3.)
6. On-street on Syndicate between Donald and Arthur (no space for a terminal building, too short)
7. NESCO site (requires demolition, not central)
8. The parking lot former used by Kam Motors (privately owned, not central)
9. On-street on McKellar between Victoria and Miles (no space for a terminal building, not central)
10. Centennial Square strip mall and office block, and its parking area (privately owned, requires demolition)
11. On-street on George Street and on the parking behind Royal Edward Arms (not central, across from homeless shelter)
12. The parking lot across from the Fort William Gardens, at the SE corner of Miles and Vickers (not central)
13. The empty lots along May Street, north of the Federal Building (not central)
14. The greenspace north of the CPR station (not central)

Out of these, I would support 10 or 7, in that order. I think 10 would be the best option, the mini-mall is now mostly vacant, offices and stores can re-locate to Victoriaville and public parking can be provided. Interference with Quality Market can be reduced with a decorative fence between the terminal and the store's parking area.

They did make it clear that the Central terminal option will only be considered if they can not come to a final decision on the south core site. It will only happen if they rule out the remaining six sites. TBNews seems to have gotten that message confused though. There is support from council on eliminating the downtown terminals (at least that is what is implied by Rebecca Johnson's "we want to get rid of them" comment) but the drivers oppose it because it will make their job more difficult if there is only one facility for them to rest, use the washroom etc.

I like the idea of a centralized transit station in the Intercity Area. I would support a new station on the land in front of the Superstore. There's enough space to build a big enough area for all the buses.

Map (http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4347/im008852.jpg)

Of the four sites in Intercity, that one scored the lowest in their criteria by far. The site by the transit office was number 1, followed closely sites 3 (Sears automotive) and 4 (Barewood furniture).

The main concern I have with a single central terminal, other than the elimination of central, indoor facilities in the cores is the amount of crime (especially property crime) in Intercity, due to the lack of people at night. Site 3 is located right on a high-property crime area (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-561-m/2008010/maps/5006393-eng.htm). (It has a blob all to itself.) There are homeless people sleeping in that area, and a lot of litter. Unless the terminal is part of an improvement plan for that block, you're going to have to have police on-site constantly. They cited the "lack of crime" and "elimination of costly police supervision" as benefits for Intercity, apparently oblivious to the fact that as a district, it has the highest property crime rate and with an influx of people we could see its violent crime rates jump as well. (They're only low because so few people spend much time in the open there-they're either in cars or buildings. This will gather them outside, possibly unsupervised, from 6am to 1am.) If they're going with Intercity, then incorporating a community policing office is a must.

Another concern about the central location is the inconvenience caused to intra-city travel. Someone who wants to go from County Park to Downtown Port Arthur will have to make a 20 minute detour to Intercity, unless the changes are just minor (they said they would be) in which case we'll end up with the same system but without downtown terminals and detours on some routes to get to a terminal nowhere near them. It will especially affect the Hudson-Crosstown-East End line, which completely avoids Intercity.

Hopefully the accompanied re-jig of the city transit lines (should this plan go forward) will be optimal and wipe away a lot of the historical nonsense that plagues our transit services.

Some people voiced concern about having to learn new routes and they said that if a central terminal is chosen, the changes "probably won't be very big", so I don't think that will happen.

They said that regardless of the outcome, downtown will still be a focal point for many routes. If we get a central terminal, I think it won't be long before public demands push them to re-build downtown terminals, or at least some sort of indoor facility near all the routes. Downtown is a major transfer point, and major transfer points require indoor facilities due to the amount of people they serve.

[russman]

I don't think Brodie Street ever went through there. Before Patterson Park and that parking lot, Fort William Central School was on that site. If Brodie went through there, it was built over by 1894. They said that any new parkades or expansion of Victoriaville's parkade are long-term future plans, so it won't happen until after 2012. Possibly not until 2015 or 2020.

Regardless of when the street went through there or if it ever did, it could be constructed through there if and when there is a parkade built at Patterson Park.

10. Centennial Square strip mall and office block, and its parking area (privately owned, requires demolition)

Are you suggesting demolishing Centennial Square? Vid, we have too many empty lots and decrepit buildings in this city to demolish active retail and office space. We've already destroyed everything north of the mall, do we really need to start destroying the west as well? If anything I would support #7. If it was built at #7 then Violet St could be turned into a landscaped pedestrian gateway to the downtown from the terminal.

I like the idea of a centralized transit station in the Intercity Area.

Considering that Intercity is an area built first and foremost for vehicular traffic, and Intercity mall is well serviced by multiple routes, it seems ridiculous to me that we are even considering building a central terminal.


Does anyone know the reason why the terminal can't be within 300 meters of the courthouse?

[softee]

^ Maybe they don't want prisoners making a run for it and jumping on a bus. haha

[vid]

I was talking with a woman at Brodie terminal today, she said that the police are going to be moving into the BMO space at Victoriaville. I'm not entirely sure what she meant by it, though.

Regardless of when the street went through there or if it ever did, it could be constructed through there if and when there is a parkade built at Patterson Park.

Indeed.

Are you suggesting demolishing Centennial Square? Vid, we have too many empty lots and decrepit buildings in this city to demolish active retail and office space. We've already destroyed everything north of the mall, do we really need to start destroying the west as well? If anything I would support #7. If it was built at #7 then Violet St could be turned into a landscaped pedestrian gateway to the downtown from the terminal.

Yes, I think we should demolish it, except for Quality Market. That site will not be empty and decrepit once a terminal is built. All of those businesses can relocate to Victoriaville (there is room, and rent is probably cheaper) or other store fronts (one of the historic houses would make a great location for JJ's restaurant). Stores like Mr. J's and JJ's Restaurant are well known enough that a re-location won't be too much of a problem, and the decreased vacancy in Victoriaville will make it more desirable. With DSSAB moving out and the small court facility on Archibald hopefully moving to the courthouse, there will be enough space for an anchor tenant at the west entrance to Victoriaville, perfect for the rent-to-own furniture place.

Considering that Intercity is an area built first and foremost for vehicular traffic, and Intercity mall is well serviced by multiple routes, it seems ridiculous to me that we are even considering building a central terminal.

It isn't about servicing the people that live there, it is easier maintenance for transit managers. The idea of a central terminal completely ignores the needs of transit riders and drivers. It's being made by people who never use the system.

Does anyone know the reason why the terminal can't be within 300 meters of the courthouse?

They haven't been clear on that, and even Dennis Fletcher said it confused him. The main bus terminal in Sudbury (which is even larger than the proposed Intercity terminals here and is the focus for more traffic) is right across the street from their courthouse (which likely will be larger than ours), and I think Durham or York has a courthouse/transit terminal combination as well. But that is a restriction they've imposed, so that's what we have to work with. Almost all of those sites are within 300m of the courthouse site, though. Centennial Square is within 55m of the property, and North Street is about 200m away.

^ Maybe they don't want prisoners making a run for it and jumping on a bus. haha

That is actually a problem with the existing court houses and the district jail. Their prisoner transfer points aren't very secure and people have escaped them on several occasions. The district jail is also across the street from a high school. (And we sled on its grounds in the winter, which probably taunts the inmates.) The court house in Port Arthur also has a large hill that people sled on in winter.

[russman]

Yes, I think we should demolish it, except for Quality Market. That site will not be empty and decrepit once a terminal is built. All of those businesses can relocate to Victoriaville (there is room, and rent is probably cheaper) or other store fronts (one of the historic houses would make a great location for JJ's restaurant). Stores like Mr. J's and JJ's Restaurant are well known enough that a re-location won't be too much of a problem, and the decreased vacancy in Victoriaville will make it more desirable. With DSSAB moving out and the small court facility on Archibald hopefully moving to the courthouse, there will be enough space for an anchor tenant at the west entrance to Victoriaville, perfect for the rent-to-own furniture place.

Almost all of those sites are within 300m of the courthouse site, though. Centennial Square is within 55m of the property, and North Street is about 200m away.

I know that the site won't be empty and decrepit once the terminal is built, but we should make use of our empty and decrepit properties before demolishing a well-maintained strip mall. The fact that it is within 55m from the courthouse eliminates this as an option anyway.

-

As the city's urban forest was brought up at the budget meeting, it got me thinking about which streets should be a priority for tree-lining. I would think that East Donald, East Victoria, North May and North Cumberland should be some of the first to be tree-lined.

[vid]

They're going to have to ease up on the 300m limit. The city has to point out to them that it is hypocritical for them to impose it on us and not the other cities where courthouses are close to transit centres.

I'd like to see Memorial get trees again, someone proposed it on TBNewswatch or in the Chronicle-Journal the other day.

[F. Lionel]

They're going to have to ease up on the 300m limit. The city has to point out to them that it is hypocritical for them to impose it on us and not the other cities where courthouses are close to transit centres.

I'd like to see Memorial get trees again, someone proposed it on TBNewswatch or in the Chronicle-Journal the other day.

it was proposed in a letter to the editor. I would like to see some trees returned to Memorial Avenue as well but I don't think the neighbouring businesses would react well to the city lining the street with any trees that might grow to obstruct the view of their locations from passing traffic. There would be large areas where businesses would object and trees would not be planted.

I think a good alternative would be 'Memorial Groves' along memorial avenue with each one memorializing a different war - the former Ed's triangle could be used, as could the island where the current Memorial Sign is right now. You could also use the empty lot next to the A&W (as well as across the street from there). You could even tear down the former P.I.s and convert that whole corner into a green space/memorial grove concept, adjactent to the rest of the civic complex at South High and Winnipeg. Other lots are at the former Ore Trestle, the lot between 1st and 2nd Avenues (tear down that last house as it is becoming an eyesore), and the former Hutch's Variety.

[vid]

Council to review Renew Thunder Bay plan
November 23, 2009 | TBNewsWatch (full article (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=72228))

...

The proposed five-year plan titled Renew Thunder Bay encompasses an arena project and several other major projects. ...

About 10 capital projects have been proposed, including a $60-million multi-purpose event centre and a new $5 million library in the County Park area. But the No.1 priority project will be the second phase of the City's waterfront development plan.

That project includes a marina expansion, a new cruise ship terminal and a long-term vision for the Pool 6 lands.

...

... Councillors are being asked to approve a purchase of the former Industrial Hardwoods property on Mission Island. The company closed in 2008.

The purchase price for the 9.5-acre property is little more than $47,000. Administration is also recommending that council approve a financing strategy for the city's share of a proposed new headquarters for the Lakehead Region Conservation Authority.

The request from the LRCA is for $1.8-million toward the $4 million project.

Are they requesting a new County Park library because of capacity issues or do they know something about the future of County Fair that we don't? If the mall isn't closing, they should probably build one in the north end somewhere, and the other in Northwood. (Perhaps in their mall, like County Park.)

The airport's runway extension is complete. Runway 7/25 is now 2,230m long. Which is still pretty short compared to airports of similar size and passenger volume.

Chronicle Journal has a little bit more on the Renew Thunder Bay plan:

The plan calls for the city to spend about $40 million for strategic infrastructure over five years. The infrastructure would include phase two of the waterfront development, a 5,000-seat multi-use event centre, a citywide multi-use trail system, renewal of parks and recreation facilities, downtown area upgrades, citywide wi-fi and sustainable energy projects.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/top_story.php?id=226608

Citywide wi-fi will be an interesting debate, since the University has banned it. The article discussed the LRCA building. I agree with Tuchenhagen (this is the first time I have seen his name in the news for reasons other than controversy! :)) that the location isn't really the best site for this use, but disagree that their own building is "unnecessary". I think that location would make a really good spot for a hotel or something. As long as it has a good green space component, though, I'll be happy.

[tjernobyl]

The site on the Neebing river presumably has symbolic value for the LRCA. When they were originally formed, their domain consisted solely of the Neebing watershed. Later, the floodway was their crowning achievement. I wouldn't be surprised to see a pavilion, trail, or other interpretive content as a feature of the new site. The back of the property is where the Neebing and McIntyre meet, and aside from the two houses the site is surrounded by water on 3 sides. There are few organizations who could use it more appropriately.

Citywide wi-fi will be an interesting debate, since the University has banned it.

The University's wifi policy comes up for review in 2012. With Gilbert's term expiring next year, I don't think the ban will last.

I was talking with a woman at Brodie terminal today, she said that the police are going to be moving into the BMO space at Victoriaville. I'm not entirely sure what she meant by it, though.

It was mentioned on tbnewswatch (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=60647) in July that the community policing station in Patterson Park was moving into Victoriaville proper when their building was demolished. I'm assuming this has happened by now.

They did make it clear that the Central terminal option will only be considered if they can not come to a final decision on the south core site. [...] There is support from council on eliminating the downtown terminals (at least that is what is implied by Rebecca Johnson's "we want to get rid of them" comment)
They're going to have to ease up on the 300m limit. The city has to point out to them that it is hypocritical for them to impose it on us and not the other cities where courthouses are close to transit centres.

Though I'm loathe to posit conspiracy theories, I wonder if they may have seen it as advantageous in the long run to accept that limit without question.

Are they requesting a new County Park library because of capacity issues or do they know something about the future of County Fair that we don't? If the mall isn't closing, they should probably build one in the north end somewhere, and the other in Northwood. (Perhaps in their mall, like County Park.)

Thunder Bay has the third-lowest amount of library space per-capita in the province. The library's long-term plan is to replace MJLB, replace County Park, designate either Brodie or (probably) Waverley as a hub and upgrade it, and then upgrade the remaining facility. County Park is less than half the size of the current MJLB, and will be less than a third once the new MJLB is built. As for whether they'll stay in the mall, lease another facility, or build new, who knows. If they stayed, they'd need to displace existing businesses or move into the former Canadian Tire to reach their square footage target.

County Fair has some .. management issues right now, but I don't think they intend to close; more like not putting much effort into staying open.

[russman]

Why was the police station demolished? I believe that building used to be for tourism information.

[vid]

The police station beside Patterson Park was demolished because it would otherwise be vacant and probably just cost money. With it gone, they can squeeze in a few more parking spaces.

It was mentioned on tbnewswatch (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=60647) in July that the community policing station in Patterson Park was moving into Victoriaville proper when their building was demolished. I'm assuming this has happened by now.

It's at the south entrance, by the washrooms across from the food court and RBC, and has been there for a couple months. I mentioned that the police were already in that area and she said they were moving more stuff into the RBC. I have no idea what. I don't even think it will be another force. OPP has their new place, RCMP just moved into Balmoral, and NAPS has a new office on Court Street. Treaty 3 might be looking at it but I doubt it. Who knows?

County Park is less than half the size of the current MJLB, and will be less than a third once the new MJLB is built. As for whether they'll stay in the mall, lease another facility, or build new, who knows.

I think it was announced on the news the other day that they want to build a new facility.

[ccnews]

UPDATE - Public Information Meeting Announced

The Thunder Bay Public Library and the Community Services Department of the City of Thunder Bay would like to invite you to a Public Information Meeting. The purpose of the meeting is to provide an update on the Mary J.L. Black Branch Library renewal project.

Public Information Meeting
Thursday, December 3, 2009 - 7 – 9 pm
St. Martin School Gymnasium, 115 West Mary Street

Agenda
7:00 - 7:30 pm Meet & Greet / Displays
7:30 - 8:00 pm Presentations*
8:00 - 9:00 pm Questions & Answers

* There will be a 30 minute presentation at 7:30 pm.

Accessibility
Do you have a special need? Thunder Bay Public Library and the City of Thunder Bay will try to accommodate your needs. Please contact the Library @ 684-6803 before December 1, 2009.

[vid]

So we basically paid over five million dollars to buy back our own park. :rolleyes: I was wondering how that guy could afford a SmartCar and custom plates.

In less slanderous news, La Grande Sudburie (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.502705,-80.946493&spn=0,359.956226&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=46.502068,-80.944883&panoid=0QQVbPVI1-eWWwDahJuGUQ&cbp=12,187.67,,0,9.24) is now on Streetview! :banana:

This is their courthouse (http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=46.492232,-80.991318&spn=0,359.978113&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=46.492231,-80.991196&panoid=M7KONuwxok7GBFZTPLl1HQ&cbp=12,196.04,,0,-31.97). Turn around.

--

OK, I put some thought into this thinking about how all the "Friends of" groups are pretty much enemies or fuckups (FOMP... is insane; FOCP.. pronounce their acronym, that's what they did; Friends of the Mission and McKellar Islands want to demolish all the deer habitat for a second Chapples Park but without the golf course, stadium and accessibility) and I was thinking, if any new large recreation area is going to be built, it should go in the Current River Greenway area, then I remembered that the LPH is shutting down in 2013 or so when its replacement is built at St. Joseph's hospital.

The LPH is protected, but I am pretty sure that the protection only applies to the main building, not the many wings, which have no real architectural heritage (they have historical heritage but that didn't stop the FW Sanitarium from being razed and really, what they were and are isn't a proud part of our history, it's just sad), so I though, once it is closed, demolish the wings, build an architecturally appropriate expansion to the main part of the building, and you've got the Current River branch of the TBPL. The grassy area can be set up for recreational uses (ball parks, soccer pitch, mini-skate park, maybe a BMX park or something, whatever), the wooded area behind (zoned for future residential) can have rec paths and info panels or whatever. They get a library in the area (and it needs one), we get more recreation facilities, especially some easily accessible to the north end (which is lacking in a lot of services because of its poor planning), the most architecturally important part of the LPH is saved and in use, and that site doesn't sit vacant. Soccer pitches are just expanses of grass so it can still be used for small fares and gatherings and set up to accommodate hockey rinks in winter. Thoughts?

[ccnews]

is that is bus terminal across the street from THEIR courthouse

I realize we talked about our bus terminal having to be 300 meters away, but again explain WHY again

[vid]

Yes, that is the bus terminal across the street from the courthouse. That is to say, the bus terminal that is bigger than any bus terminal we will ever have across the street from the courthouse that is bigger than any courthouse we will ever have, in a downtown that is denser than we will ever have in a city with an economy that is barely as strong as ours.

It's very unusual. The security around it is pretty simple too. Planters. The WTC had security planters to prevent bomb attacks...

I don't see how they're going to revitalize a downtown by removing its public transit facilities.

[russman]

The courthouse could have been built on the block bordered by Syndicate, Brodie, Miles and Chappels Lane, and a new bus terminal could have been built in the Skafs lot, also removing the need to demolish YMCA and Twin City Gas buildings.

The whole idea of the bus terminal causing a security issue is ridiculous anyway, as there will still likely be bus service along Miles Street, and certainly along May Street.

[vid]

It would actually be worse without it, since people will probably tend to loiter inside the court house to escape the weather. I know Hockey NWOntario had that problem on Red River Road, and after putting up signs people shifted to the vestibule, go there in mid day and you'll find at least one person in there.

[eternallyme]

Council backs motion to four-lane Hwy. 17
Posted By JENNIFER HAMILTON-MCCHARLES, THE NUGGET
Posted 1 day ago

http://www.nugget.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2202093

Motorists don't have much protection from a 4.5-inch painted line, according to Judy Skidmore.

The publisher of the Working Forest Newspaper is touring the province trying to garner support to four-lane the Ontario TransCanada Highway from Arnprior through to North Bay and on to the Manitoba border.

Coun. Dave Mendicino said he brought the motion forward during Monday's council meeting because it wasn't on anyone's radar.

The resolution, which receive unanimous support, asks for the provincial and federal governments to make four-laning a priority. A copy will be forwarded to Nipissing MPP Monique Smith, Nipissing-Timiskaming MP Anthony Rota and to various ministers.

It's like we're back in the horse and buggy days," said Coun. Judy Koziol.

What a shame to be heading to the country's capital and have to drive on a two-lane highway. I don't think it's unrealistic to ask for four lanes," she said.

It's a safety issue. It's a shame that we haven't done this earlier."

Skidmore said a divided highway is what is needed for motorists to be safe, according to Transport Canada.

Ontario roads are terrible generally, but Highway 17 from North Bay to Kenora is extremely dangerous," she said.

We can't accept dying on the roadway because a 4.5-inch painted line is protecting you."

An engineering report, commissioned by the Working Forest News, revealed a vision for the highway, which is estimated to cost about $600 million per year. The report, released last month, found it would take 25 years to build the national-level highway.

It's a lot of money, but it's not unreasonable," Skidmore said following Monday's council meeting.

[vid]

You can't publish entire articles anymore, new forum rules regarding copyright. Just copy a few sentences and link to the rest.

The province is looking at four laning of 11-17 from Kakabeka to Shabaqua. They're still avoiding the city but a commenter on tbnewswatch made the point that if that stretch is blocked, you can't get through this part of the country, so it is more important than the city's portion of the TCH in that respect.

The project's website: http://www.hwy11-17kakabeka.ca/

This is the very early phase, we're probably 20 years away from anything but at least they're doing something I guess.

TBNewsWatch also put a picture of the new MJLB/West Thunder Community Centre site plan on their website:

http://www.tbnewswatch.com//Pictures/73322_633954763329016718.jpg
http://www.tbnewswatch.com/FindArticle.aspx?cid=73322&catid=1
The library is the building with the curved façade. Considering the small foot print I assume it will be two stories? Maybe something split level with a nice entry foyer/reading room area?

[eternallyme]

I definitely agree that the sections that are otherwise isolated need to be done first (and as soon as possible!) since they are the only links connecting Canada.

The intra-Thunder Bay section should be in the next round of construction though, simply because of traffic volumes and to improve flow through northwestern Ontario's largest city.

The odd thing is that some of the more remote sections have poorer Levels of Service, since the capacity is significantly lower on a 2-lane rolling/semi-mountainous highway than a 2-lane highway in level terrain.

[vid]

I just found this aerial photo of the Scout Jamboree (http://www.thunderbay.ca/City_Government/City_Records_and_Archives/Web_Exhibits/Scouts_Canada_Jamboree_1997/Aerial_View_of_Canada_Jamboree_1997.htm) in 1997. The LPH is huge.

[tjernobyl]

Single-floor, 9000 square feet. They want to keep to a single-floor design as it helps accessibility and you need fewer staff to keep everything supervised. I'd figured from their long-term plans that they'd have gone up to 12000, but I imagine they'd build with an eventual expansion in mind. All their existing facilities have been added on to at least once.

The handouts had a couple renderings. Much better than I had hoped. Rustic masonry, wood, and glass. Situated to look good from Edward. I think the sunlight angles were mixed up in the render, though.

As for internal features, nothing's really set yet. The current MJLB has a 2000 sqft meeting area in the basement, which is apparently ~3x what you usually see in a modern building. They were thinking of doing ~1400 sqft which is still 2x the average, but there's a lot still to be determined.

Big complaint was parking. Rather than a giant sea of parking taking up half the site, there are a couple lots scattered around. A couple concerns about vandalism, some griping about the skate park, and one person requested a traffic light be set up to help people get in and out of the parking lot.

Next issue of the library newsletter comes out on the 14th; hopefully there should be some more details there.

[ccnews]

hi tjernobyl

I was at the meeting as well,
I can't see them putting in a traffic light - they better not:koko:

as far as parking, to me thats more esthetically pleasing having parking all over, rather then one huge parking lot - mind you I do understand about the snow plowing in the winter

having the skate park behind the building rather than in the open is another concern

[vid]

They're still open for changes, this is just a preliminary concept. It sounds like the skateboard park is going to be moved to a more appropriate location.

[vid]

The December 7 council meeting, discussing an apartment complex at Beverly and Balmoral and a zoning amendment for the strip mall at Red River and Clarkson, has been cancelled because both applications were pulled. Public meetings will be held at a later date.

http://www.thunderbay.ca/City_Government/News_and_Strategic_Initiatives/News_Releases/Dec__7_City_Council_Meeting_Cancelled.htm?DateTime=633954816000000000&PageMode=View

Construction of the Seniors Centre of Excellence at the end of Lillie Street has begun.

A meeting about the Northern Growth Plan in Suds got heated. I like their mayor's attitude. :) There will be a local meeting on November 9 at the Italian Cultural Centre, 6:30 to 8:30.

http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/Industry-News/government/Sudbury-regional-leaders-rip-into-Growth-Plan-for-Northern-Ontario205.aspx

[russman]

Why were the applications pulled?

[vid]

Who knows. My guess would be that the Beverly and Balmoral development wanted to tweak their plans again before they were discussed and that the Red River Square deal for having a clinic or whatever fell through rendering the zone change moot? :shrug: (Although if I was them, I would have gone through with it anyway to have options open.) They'll probably come up again in a couple months.

The city has put up a small gallery of what the fence separating the railway and the park between Red River and the overpass will look like:

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=128106&id=139348779150

[vid]

On Monday city council is expected to hear a pair of feasibility reports commissioned to look into the possibility of building a $60-million, 5,600 multiplex in Thunder Bay and the possible tenants it might attract.

...

The feasibility study shows that if a new multiplex arena is built, the city could support an OHL or AHL team, but only if they draw an average of 4,200 fans per game. In comparison, the Lakehead Thunderwolves men’s hockey team, the highest drawing sports team in the city, currently averages about 3,100 fans a night.

...

If passed on Monday night, Rydholm said the next step for the city would be a $500,000 comprehensive study on the arena. She said that study would include detailed drawings, a communications strategy and public consultation

Full article (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=73897)

..

[vid]

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/Pictures/74136_633961449736555665.jpg

Rendering of the Seniors Centre of Excellence (on the left) and a 132 bed independent living facility (on the right) at the end of Lillie Street. Full article (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=74136).

Ice Edge has signed a letter of intent to purchase the Coyotes, they could have an AHL team in the city as early as next fall. Full article (http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=74189).

Things are really falling into place this month. With the SCoE and Living Centre (about 50 million), the court house (100 million), Prince Arthur's Landing getting into full construction mode (about 100 million) and various other construction projects in the works, we could easily break 300 million dollars in construction next year. Impressive, even if most of it is from the government.

[vid]

City Council unanimously OKed the arena study.

Following a two-hour debate, council voted unanimously to proceed with the report, due back in June 2010. It will look at everything from capital costs and financial impact on the city to how the facility, expected to cost up to $60 million, will be paid for, its size, location and the management model.

http://www.tbnewswatch.com/news/Default.aspx?cid=74418

RBC on Red River at St. Paul is closing on April 1.

Vacancy rate is up 0.1% over last year (http://www.netnewsledger.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1136:the-vacancy-rate-in-thunder-bay-was-up-only-slightlyq&catid=1:latest-news&Itemid=55), at 2.3%. Rents increased 2.9% for 2008-2009, up from 1.3% for 2007-2008, and above the province's legal limit.

State of the City address (http://www.thunderbay.ca/City_Government/News_and_Strategic_Initiatives/News_Releases/Mayor_Delivers_2009_State_of_the_City_Address.htm?DateTime=633963456000000000&PageMode=View).

[eternallyme]

Sudbury regional leaders rip into Growth Plan for Northern Ontario

Criticism in no short supply at invitation-only meeting

By: Nick Stewart

http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/Industry-News/government/Sudbury-regional-leaders-rip-into-Growth-Plan-for-Northern-Ontario205.aspx

Frustrated community leaders aired their comments on the Growth Plan for Northern Ontario in Sudbury, Dec. 3.

After the television cameras left and the doors were closed, the gloves came off.

Criticism for the Northern Ontario Growth Plan was plentiful at a rollicking invitation-only Regional Economic Development Meeting held at Sudbury's Holiday Inn on Dec. 3, attended by academic, economic and municipal representatives from Elliot Lake to French River.

-------------------------------------

Good for them. It is a TERRIBLE plan, that is written by Toronto bureaucrats in their interest only, with the help of environmentalist groups that would depress the north forever.

First thing I would do is kill the shutdown on growth in the far north (all for that phantom problem called climate change) and remove barriers to development, then empower local municipalities, First Nations and local services boards (which should be called counties, serving the unorganized areas and assisting with municipalities). A massive infrastructure work should also take place. Toronto bureaucrats should have NO input.

If that cannot be done (due to political problems), then form a separate province.

[russman]

RBC on Red River at St. Paul is closing on April 1.

Consolidating offices at the new branch on John Street? Its a shame that there's going to be another large vacancy downtown.

[vid]

Consolidating and laying off no doubt. Making billions of dollars during a recession just isn't enough for them, they've got to charge their customers exorbitant fees and lay off 50% of their staff on a regular basis, too.

[F. Lionel]

In RBC's defense (and I am no fan of the Royal Bank of Canada believe me) they have maintained the largest number of branches in this city for a long time. The last count I remember was something like 9! TD, Scotia, and HSBC don't even have that amount cumulatively!

I, too, lament the loss of another bank in the north core but, perhaps, another financial institution will move themselves in. It's a big space - perhaps Northern Credit Union will move down the hill? They are pretty cramped in their current location up on Red River Road.

I doubt that it will stay empty for too long. Space in the north core doesn't tend to stay empty. It may see a succession of tenants but it's not empty for very long at all in the end.

[russman]

RBC has 7 branches; Hodder Ave, Grandview Mall, John at Memorial, Balmoral Park, Victoriaville Mall, Edward St, and Westfort. TD Has 4 branches (County Fair, Red River Rd, Memorial, Brentwood Mall), Scotiabank has 3 (Red River Rd, Balmoral Park, May at Victoria) and HSBC has 1 (Balmoral Park).

Financial institutions in many smaller cities are moving out of city centres for areas where they can have drive-thrus and large parking lots. In the past few years the north core has lost HSBC and now RBC, while the south core has lost the Ukrainian Credit Union, TD and BMO. It wouldn't surprise me if more were to move to suburban or intercity locations in the next few years.

[F. Lionel]

There is still an RBC on Red River (until April) so that's 8 - they are tied. My point is that they have offered better branch coverage that their competitors have in this city.

I don't think there will too many more departures from downtown PA's financial community - CIBC, BMO, and ScotiaBank all have purpose built branches and are spread out enough across the city (and already have branches in the Intercity Area). The same can be said for CIBC, RBC, and ScotiaBank in downtown FW. Superior Credit Union also boasts purpose built branches in both cores.

I suspect that TD or BMO will return to the downtown FW area or RBC will relocate there when construction commences on the former Paterson Building lot. RBC will probably return to downtown PA before too long in some form - even if it were just a bank of ATMs - but I suppose that has more to do with the actual progression of development and growth caused by the waterfront and the associated urban renewal in the general area.

[russman]

ScotiaBank could use a bank closer to Intercity Mall, maybe on the southwest corner of Harbour Expressway and Fort William Road? (Proposed bus terminal site).

Superior Credit Union also boasts purpose built branches in both cores.

Isn't the one in Port Arthur in a strip mall? I think you're thinking of Bay Credit Union.

As for the Paterson lot, what exactly is proposed? I would imagine that it will just be a one storey office building or strip mall.

[F. Lionel]

Scotiabank's branch is closer to Intercity than RBC's. Your proposed branch location is really only 4 blocks from its current home.

Downtown PA's Superior Credit Union is in a strip mall but it was renovated and built to their specifications. Nothing at all like their former location on Court Street beside Seargent & Son's. They have no current intentions to relocate.

The site proposal submitted to council for the lot at McKellar included the Shopper's Drug Mart and a second smaller building labeled "Bank".

[russman]

http://www.thunderbaybusiness.ca/article/shoppers-drug-mart-mckellar-opens-205.asp

We have room for another 3 or 4 commercial tenants in the second building which will be about 10,000 square feet and hope to start in the spring of 2009. There is strong interest and we have a couple tenants signed already.

[vid]

That obviously fell through. They haven't done anything on that site. I bet when they do however, it will be one of the banks relocating. Probably RBC, they're the only bank left in DTFW that is inaccessible 60% of the time because the mall closes so early (and doesn't even open on Sunday.) If they do move, we're closing the account. With the relocation of RBC in DTPA, I am now more than 30 minutes from an RBC branch 60% of the time and a round-trip to do banking there after-hours would take at least 80 minutes. That's unacceptable in today's world!

RBC won't re-open in the Heart of the Harbour area because they already have a downtown location. It's at the corner of John and Algoma. :rolleyes: For this same reason, Shoppers Drug Mart won't be opening any new locations within a mile of Red River and Court any time in the near future either.

I think the CIBC at Arthur and Edward is about 10,000sqft, probably a little under. It isn't too big. At most it will be two storeys, most likely it will be like the CIBC, mostly one storey with a second floor above one part of it.

The restaurant at Harbour Crossing is going to be a Swiss Chalet, which means 100% of that development is relocating business. :rolleyes:

[vid]

Back to some actual news:

Public meetings relating to rezoning for the MJLB Library will be held on January 18. The following sites will be examined:

The site beside West Thunder Community Centre, the preferred location, which will be changed from OS Open Space to NIN Neighbourhood Institution zone.

If that doesn't work out:

Amendments to the by-law to permit demolition of the existing library and reconstruction on the Brock and Edward site. This amendment will alter driveway specifications and increase the maximum allowed height for a library to 15 meters, suggesting a two storey building if this location has to be chosen.

An oddly shaped lot bounded by James Street to the east, the CN Mainline to the north, and the walking path corridor that used to be the CN line going down James Street to the west and south. This amendment will see "library" added to permitted uses of OS Open Space zones.

Also: There is an amendment requested to re-zone the lots east of the intersection of John and Algonquin/Balmoral, from R2-Residential 1 and 2 Unit zone to NC2, Neighbourhood Commercial 2 zone, and allow a community clinic, with or without dwelling unit, as well as some other minor changes to the official plan with regards to uses and standards on NC2 zoned properties.

Northern Ontario Business magazine article about the wind turbine project in Dorion (http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/Industry-News/environment/Northwest-wind-farm-development-on-schedule-to-build-604.aspx), and the project's website (http://greenwichwindfarm.com/) which is very informative.

Wawatay News article (http://www.wawataynews.ca/archive/all/2009/12/17/Study-to-identify-possible-routes-for-an-allseason-road-for-James-Bay-area_18790) about the study to identify possible routes for an all-season road to the communities along James Bay.

[ccnews]

the sports Dome that is located on the CLE grounds is DOWN:eek:

I drove around the building to see if I could see anything, there is a large tear on one side

I talked to one of the guys walking around but he wasn't in a talkative mood, understandably so, I would be unset as well

[russman]

the sports Dome that is located on the CLE grounds is DOWN:eek:

I drove around the building to see if I could see anything, there is a large tear on one side

I talked to one of the guys walking around but he wasn't in a talkative mood, understandably so, I would be unset as well
Seriously? Wow, hope it can be repaired quickly.

Development at the Queen Elizabeth School http://tbnewswatch.com/Video/Default.aspx?art_id=18209

Hope everyone is enjoying their holidays. :)

[F. Lionel]

Apparently the dome tore above the garbage storage area. It started down low and ran right up the side of the dome. One of the employees was in my store this afternoon and shared the knowledge he had. He's not sure how long he's going to be off work but he was told it might be as long as two months but hopefully only two weeks.

[ccnews]

two months!!,
but I guess it would be hard to schedule a calm day in the middle of winter
to try and inflate a new dome

[F. Lionel]

two months!!,
but I guess it would be hard to schedule a calm day in the middle of winter
to try and inflate a new dome

Sports Dome Comes Down (http://www.chroniclejournal.com/stories_local.php?id=232877) from today's Chronicle Journal.

“We replaced the last one about a year-and-a-half ago,” said Robertson, who believes it‘ll be at least a few days before the Sports Dome is running again.

“We‘re going to weld the seam back together then get the inflation fans back on.”

It takes 12 to 14 hours to inflate the large dome.

“Once it‘s inflated we can assess the damage inside,” Robertson said.

So the Intercity Skyline will be back to normal maybe before New Year's Day. When the Sports Dome goes back into full operation is the question that is still unanswered.

[vid]

I guess replacing it every couple years is still cheaper than a real building.

[eternallyme]

Thunder Bay poised for oil sands rebound

By: Ian Ross

Venshore Mechanical and other Thunder Bay shops teamed up to make fuel modules for a Western Canadian client.

Industry promoters of the Alberta oil sands are predicting gradual growth in the latter half of 2010 as development projects, shelved by the recession and dipping oil prices, come back to life.

The companies of the Thunder Bay Oil Consortium plan to be there, rubbing elbows and exchanging business cards at the upcoming National Buyers/Sellers Forum in Edmonton this March.

Full article: http://www.northernontariobusiness.com/Industry-News/energy/Thunder-Bay-poised-for-oil-sands-rebound800.aspx

[ccnews]

and like the article stated, their new building is quite impressive - a big change from their current building


----nice to see that empty lot used for something good---- :yes:

[Danny D]

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs195.snc3/20264_264541776583_605911583_4451718_3823293_n.jpg
Compass Square - 7 Stories

And this has been up for a while but I have not seen it on here.

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs059.snc3/14642_192341991583_605911583_3970331_3915119_n.jpg

[vid]

I never go to that end of my street. It lacks hookers and therefore, interest for me. :)

I wonder if Compass Square will do better than Lakeview Condos, which is still just a three storey lookout in an empty lot after what, two years?

Is the REACH project just being added onto the existing Con College building? I thought they were building a completely new facility for it. It has much more interesting architecture than Crapus Square. Take a look at the architect's gallery (http://www.nelsonarchitecture.com/resgallery/index.html). He has something that I assume is a vision for Kenora called Water Street Development. Why couldn't we get something like that? Looking at his gallery I have to assume that either that rendering is crap or Mr. Nelson didn't try. I really hope it is the former.

[russman]

The REACH project is an extension onto the Shuniah Building.

http://confederationc.on.ca/construction/reach/renders

And Compass Square makes my eyes bleed, but its really no worse than most suburban condo developments that I've seen in Southern Ontario or BC.

[ccnews]

at least the College is trying to blend the old with the new, here at Lakehead, every building is totally different from the next one

[Danny D]

at least the College is trying to blend the old with the new, here at Lakehead, every building is totally different from the next one

I kind of find that appealing... Or would if they actually performed any kind of maintenance on them. Those things are falling apart!

[vid]

The architectural variety is nice, but they could have put more effort into making the styles work with each other.

City Council has approved a second study regarding downtown FW parking and approved the route rationalization study for Transit. We will find out next month where buses will park after Brodie Terminal is demolished in June.

The city will host an open house at West Thunder Community Centre regarding waterfront development of the Kam river from Mountdale to the lake, including the islands, on January 21 from 6:30pm to 9pm. The plan will be a joint study by Thunder Bay and FWFN, which owns the land along the south bank. (There will be a repeat of the open house on the 30th from 2:30 to 4:30pm at FWFN community centre for residents of that community and anyone else who missed the first session, it is timed so that you can access it via transit.) There is a community group that wants to turn it into another Chapples Park, I think it should largely be left as a conservation area with some small, environmentally responsible pavillions and attractions. (Museums and such.)

[russman]

StarTek is closing out of Victoriaville. :(

[Rocket1964]

Some dude got banned from the marina today for trespassing in the construction zone.

[RTD]

I would like to see more Kenora, Dryden and Fort Frances development updates. I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the exciting developments happening in Thunder Bay! :)

[Danny D]

I wonder if Compass Square will do better than Lakeview Condos, which is still just a three storey lookout in an empty lot after what, two years?


I looked on Sutton and apparently there is still 24 suites available for Lakeview... Im assuming that means a grand total of 0 have been sold? In my opinion the prices are a little too high for a condo in that location. If it was closer to any of the downtown areas I could see it doing a little better in that price range.

I would like to see more Kenora, Dryden and Fort Frances development updates. I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the exciting developments happening in Thunder Bay! :)

Well there was this posted for Kenora in the Canadian City Proposal thread.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3277/kenora.png
From
http://www.nelsonarchitecture.com/resgallery/index.html

I can't really tell the number of floors but it looks to be about 17-18 stories.

[vid]

16 storeys excluding the very top (might be a penthouse, might not) and the floor between the base and the tower (might be something, might not). If both of those floors are used, it is 18 storeys. It would probably turn out to be 17 storeys. I don't think it was proposed, I think it might just be an architect's vision. It does correspond to a lot they are trying to develop, though. If you check out the link you can see more renderings of it.

I looked on Sutton and apparently there is still 24 suites available for Lakeview... Im assuming that means a grand total of 0 have been sold? In my opinion the prices are a little too high for a condo in that location. If it was closer to any of the downtown areas I could see it doing a little better in that price range.

Unless each floor has seven units and the seventh unit of each floor has been sold, Lakeview Condominiums hasn't sold a thing.

[super39]

Does anyone have any info on the new subdivision (Maplewood Estates) corner of Arthur and Mapleward? I heard the 40 lots are almost sold out....seems like it will be a nice area to live.

[russman]

Here's a photo of the sign... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4452381&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=7739484430&aid=-1&id=605911583 looks as though quite a few lots have been sold. :)

[eternallyme]

The mayor of Timmins is....MAD...

'Don't lay off my papa' (http://www.timminspress.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2265846)

MINING: Communities rally to prevent met site closure

With thousands of eyes upon him, five-year-old Jared Martin bravely walked onto the stage and spoke into the microphone, letting everyone know how he felt about the closure of the metallurgical site in Timmins.

"Don't lay off my papa and his friends," said Jared, who walked away to a standing ovation.

In only a couple of words and in a young boy's voice, Jared summed up how everyone was feeling yesterday as the Save the Met Site coalition held its first public meeting.

In addition to Jared, the afternoon meeting included a number of guest speakers, some from within the city of Timmins, others were supporters from surrounding communities, some of which will feel the effect from the closure.

All messages of hope were periodically interrupted by roars of applause and enthusiastic bursts of cheer.

"The only people who can help us is the provincial government," said Mayor Tom Laughren. "And the only way they are going to do that is because of people like you."

Laughren expressed displeasure in the thought of Canada's newest constructed smelter being shut down, and how it seems to him like Premier Dalton McGuinty would like to convert Northern Ontario into a park without heavy industry.

--------

Somer said increasingly the fate of Northern Ontario is being decided in cities like Toronto, Montreal, New York City and abroad, and that piece by piece and town by town, the North is being de-industrialized. The common message from all communities in the North, he said, was that Ontario resources must stay in the province.

"We've battled this for three years and more," he said. "We've been beaten, we've been knocked down, but we're not broken -- the spirit of Smooth Rock Falls is extremely strong.

"We, in the North, are at an important crossroads. What we choose to do and how we act over the next few months may be the most important steps we take in our generation."

-------

Bisson assured that shutting down Timmins would eventually mean shipping ore from the province out of the country. In total, Bisson said, about 3,000 jobs will be affected should the met site close, and the only way to stop it was to change the mining act.

"We need to change Concession 91 and take out the word Canada and put in Ontario," said Bisson, in regards to the legislation that says Ontario resources must be processed in Canada.

[vid]

Does anyone have any info on the new subdivision (Maplewood Estates) corner of Arthur and Mapleward? I heard the 40 lots are almost sold out....seems like it will be a nice area to live.

It's part of the Parkdale community development plan. They're spread out suburban lots, similar to those north of that subdivision at Wardrope and Hilldale.

-

City council approved zoning changes for the Mary J L Black library sites, and approved the development of condos and townhouses at Balmoral and Beverly.

[Gitfiddler]

I would like to see more Kenora, Dryden and Fort Frances development updates. I'm sick and tired of hearing about all the exciting developments happening in Thunder Bay! :)

I've actually been meaning to do a bit of an update for Fort Frances

Current projects:

Fort Frances Library and Technology Centre:

South Entrance
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/southside_entrance.jpg

South Side
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/southside.jpg

East End
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/eastend.jpg

Interior
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/entrance_hallway.jpg
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/teen_area.jpg
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/children_s_area.jpg
http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u2/east_end.jpg

The original architectural drawings are available here (http://library.fort-frances.com/files/u1/New%20Library%20Architect%20drawings.ppt) (Powerpoint format)

Size: 13,622 sq ft
Project Cost: $4.7 million
Funding:
FedNor: $170,000
Building Canada: $1.967 million
Ministry of Culture: $1.6 million
Northern Ontario Heritage Fund: $440,000
Corporate Donations: $175,000 (Shaw Communications)
Individual Donations (Building for the Future Campaign): $850,000
Location: Second Street East at Reid Avenue, adjacent to the Memorial Sports Centre).
Completion: June 2010

Robert Moore School Reconstruction

http://www.rrdsb.com/sites/www.rrdsb.com/files//images/RMS_bldg_img.gif

Additional photos available here (http://www.rrdsb.com/?q=image/tid/6)

Size: 51,000 sq feet, 2 stories
Project Cost: $9.8 million
Classrooms: 10 junior/intermediate classrooms, 7 primary classrooms, 4 JK/SK classrooms
Accommodates 480 students
Completion: Fall 2010
Funding: Rainy River District School Board, Ministry of Education
Location: Third Street between Crowe Ave and Armit Ave

Heritage Tourism Project Phase II

[b]Hallett/Lookout Tower relocation

This project involved relocating the former Natural Resources lookout tower, and the Hallett logging boat from Pithers Point Park to Laverendrye Parkway, at the Sorting Gap Marina.

http://www.fftimes.com/files/images/Hallett%2028.jpg
http://fftimes.com/files/images/tower%20update%20copy.jpg

View from the relocated tower:

http://www.fftimes.com/files/images/IMG_5574.jpg

You can see the Hallett's new home at the top of the pic, just past the marina docks.

New street signs were installed in December

http://fftimes.com/files/images/street%20signs%20copy.jpg

New interpretive panels along the waterfront, and wayfinding banners will be installed in the spring.

Nodin Causeway rehabilitation

http://www.thekingshighway.ca/PHOTOS/hwy11-48_lg.jpg

The Causeway is a 12km long series of island hopping bridges just east of Fort Frances. 2010 will be year 2 of a 5 year rehabilitation of the main bridge span. The project will widen the bridge and enhance views of Rainy Lake while extending the life of the bridge.

Completed Projects

St. Mary's Roman Catholic Church expansion

Architectural drawing:

http://www.stmarysfortfrances.com/images/building.jpg

Boston Pizza

http://fftimes.com/files/images/Boston%20Pizza%20work%20copy.jpg

I will have to get some pics of the completed buildings.

Proposed projects

Laverendrye Parkway Village

There's nothing much to report on this front. It's a 3 story waterfront condo project with 24 total units, next to the existing River Walk condo development. 1/3 of the units had been pre-sold as of last summer, but not much has been said since. It's still an empty lot with a sign.

Treaty Three Police Service Couchiching Detachment

T3PS is slated to get a new detachment building for their Couchiching Sub-Division. Currently the operate out of the OPP Detachment in Emo, and house prisoners at the OPP Fort Frances Detachment.

[russman]

Nice list! Seems like there is a lot of construction in Fort Frances.

[ccnews]

great pictures Gitfiddler, keep up the good work

in a way I'm supporting your community, I've switched insurance brokers to Gillon's which is headquartered in Fort Frances

[Gitfiddler]

Nice list! Seems like there is a lot of construction in Fort Frances.

Yeah, there's quite a bit going on. They also just built an $80 million biomass boiler at the Abitibi mill and the town has been going through a lot of sewer replacement and and road rehabs over the last few years.

But, at the same time, there are multiple established businesses for sale and multiple vacancies downtown.

Robert Moore is only being rebuilt because it has been allowed to deteriorate too quickly. The former high school has only had one wing redeveloped and the rest has sat as an empty eyesore for almost a decade.

The problem with Fort Frances - and the Rainy River district as a whole - is that it needs to diversify its economy very badly, but it will take a considerable amount of outside investment to do so. There's lots of money here, but most "wealthy" folks are cash poor. All the wealth is tied up in assets of some sort of another. Many of the main retailers downtown survive only because the own their buildings. Running a successful business with a mortgage on the property is very difficult.

Additionally, there is a severe lack of forward thinking on the part of the town council. Most of the really good pieces of community infrastructure - the new library, Ice for Kids Arena, Townshend Theatre and the skate park - all came about as a result of massive community fundraising efforts. The library almost didn't come to fruition despite people putting up $850k of their own money for the project. That's $100 for every resident of Fort Frances. It wasn't until a large corporate donation and some last minute government support that the town finally backed the project. They weren't nearly active enough in trying to secure funding, but they were incredibly active in getting the province to pay over a million buck to move the lookout tower and Hallett.

That problem, I think, stems from the fact that the Mayor and Council aren't full time jobs. Or, at least, they aren't paid full time wages. The Mayor only makes $23,000 per year. When you're Roy Avis, that's OK because Roy Avis owns a car dealership. He can afford to put in long hours for little money because he has the means to do so. That limits who can actually run for mayor. A normal guy with a normal job at the mill can't support his family on $23,000 a year. He can't be mayor.

They need to pay the mayor and council real salaries and make it a real full time job. Then, at least, you might see someone other than the same parade of established business owners or otherwise financially stable individuals through the mayor's chair.

[vid]

Except for the council wages, it sounds a lot like Thunder Bay but on a smaller scale. The economy is improving and jobs are coming to this community, but they don't do much to help the people who just lost their jobs, and the recovery isn't very obvious.

The Mayor of Atikokan until recently only made about 3,000$ a year. It was basically a volunteer position with modest reimbursement. He's pretty passionate though. He loves his community.

[Gitfiddler]

Except for the council wages, it sounds a lot like Thunder Bay but on a smaller scale. The economy is improving and jobs are coming to this community, but they don't do much to help the people who just lost their jobs, and the recovery isn't very obvious.

The Mayor of Atikokan until recently only made about 3,000$ a year. It was basically a volunteer position with modest reimbursement. He's pretty passionate though. He loves his community.

See, here there's no jobs coming in. The new Boston Pizza hired about 95 people. For a town like Fort, that's a huge deal, even though only a handful of those jobs are not minimum wage, part time positions.

Abitibi only directly employs about 600 people now. That's down a lot from 20 years ago, and it's not likely to grow any time soon. Granted, this mill probably will not close - it is one of only a few profitable mills - but the direct economic impact isn't what it used to be.

A big problem here is a failure to engage on the part of community leaders. I've heard a lot about the issue of youth retention. It's a big issue, one of the priorities, apparently, of town council. One would think that perhaps creating a strategy to address the problem of outmigration of youth would include involving young people. I'm in my late 20's. I moved back here several years ago. I'm a university educated young professional - essentially the prototype of who they want to get to stay here. I've never seen anywhere or anyone who would involve someone like me in working on such a strategy. That's small town thinking at it's finest.

A second problem is that too many people here look at Fort Frances as a market of 8,500. But it's not.

Within a half hour drive of Fort Frances you have:

Couchiching: 500
Lavallee/Devlin: 1,000
Alberton: 1,000
Emo: 1,300
International Falls, MN: 7,000
Ranier, MN: 300

Add in another 1,000 or so in unicorporated areas and other reserves, and it's actually an immediate market of around 20,000. Between the Rainy River District (21,000) and Koochiching County in Minnesota (14,000), there's really an extended market of 35,000. That's our service area. There's no reason why the Fort/Falls can't operate with that market mindset and develop accordingly.

Additionally, there are 500,000 tourists using the Fort Frances bridge as a gateway every year. But there's no reason to stop here. Hell, there's only one chain hotel in Fort Frances (Super 8). There's only one other good hotel (the Rendez-vous) and then a slew of motels and crap accommodations. I don't know of any other communities of this size with that poor of accommodation.

It just seems like there's a severe lack of intelligent development. There's a lack of quality rental accommodations.

Perhaps the worst thing is the Abitibi wood lot. It's right in the middle of town, which puts too many large trucks on the streets. It takes up prime real estate along the waterfront. There's a huge amount of space there to develop. With the library being built next to the arena, there are already the first steps towards reorienting the town centre to that area. The wood lot is right across Scott Street (the main street) from there.

But even the location of Scott Street is kinda dumb. If you are travelling through Fort Frances, the most economical route is down Second Street. Major traffic flows don't enter the centre of the community. There's nothing on Second St that really entices anyone to stop. Sure they may stop at McDonald's or Wal-Mart further west, but not in the main part of town.

It absolutely doesn't take advantage of the massive amount of east-west traffic that flows through the town. Of course, it's only where it is because of pre-hydro dam conditions where it was necessary to portage across much of what is now Fort Frances. Today's downtown, while not orientated in a strong location as per modern planning practices, exists where it does due to where the portage trail went. Rather than understanding that, there's such a push to preserve and develop Scott Street instead of focusing on smart locations for smart development - the wood lot and the former FFHS site being the most obvious.

Sorry for the rant.

[vid]

127-133 Simpson Street (Club 777 or "the triple nickel" and the Remnant House) has burned down. The Remnant House was recently renovated.

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9002/127129131.jpg
127-131 Simpson in April, 2009

Photos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vidioman/sets/72157623300114410/).

[russman]

Too bad that Simpson Street lost another building, but it's one less building that has to be demolished for the Multi-purpose facility. :P

[vid]

Yup. :tup: That's another thing I forgot to mention to Dee. I'll send it to NNL instead I guess.

The Remnant House didn't burn down, they saved it. I remembered, shortly after taking a photo of it, that they put in a better firewall between the two buildings when they rebuilt the roof.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4311359195_22810594f5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vidioman/4311359195/)
I'm actually impressed with how little damage there is to the building.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4311359665_b20e786451.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vidioman/4311359665/)
There is a fire hydrant below this sign, it was probably used to fight the fire and likely had a bit of a leak, covering the whole sign in this globby ice.

[tjernobyl]

I had Northern Windows, who I believe currently occupy the former Remnant House, booked to replace my front door this morning. They called to say the firefighters wouldn't let them get to it to bring it over. I guess they have a good excuse :P

CBC this morning said that the Club 333/555/777 building was abandoned.

[vid]

It was completely empty, though recently an "open" sign was on one of the doors. Windows on the upper floors were broken, some boarded over. (Apparently, the city only enforces boarding up windows on main floors. The NESCO building has to replace at least one board a month.) People have been breaking into the building on a fairly regular basis as well. In late November, someone threw a pair of gloves lit on fire into the building. According to someone who commented at TBNewsWatch, the owner of the building has been trying to sell it.

If that is where Northern Windows is keeping its doors then it explains why Arctic Doors moved out of the smaller building across from their showroom. They've grown a fair bit in the past few years, they renovated the building beside mine a few years ago and it is one of the more attractive buildings on the street. I especially like the corner window they installed, which wasn't there originally. I'm jealous of that little apartment. :P (Rooftop balcony overlooking the trains!)

[russman]

Vid, what do you estimate the retail vacancy rate to be of Simpson Street and the Fort William Core?

Also does anyone know of the progress of FWCI, McKellar Place and the Capitol Theatre (Habib Centre)?

With Startek closing out of Victoriaville, I wonder if the city will take the opportunity to remove the hideous parkade entrance and construct a new entrance at ground level. I think this was mentioned in the Fort William Renewal Plan along with streetscaping and a new south entrance to the mall.

[tjernobyl]

I don't know if there's been any work on the inside, but in the past month they built a new outer wall over the post-demolition scar on the west side of the former McKellar hospital.

No visible change at FWCI. They'd better get to it before people get too accustomed to using the grounds as an off-leash dog park and start forming committees.

[vid]

No visible change at FWCI. They'd better get to it before people get too accustomed to using the grounds as an off-leash dog park and start forming committees.

This city is so fucked up. "Save the vacant lot with a dilapidated building on it! We like to let our dogs shit there!"

Vid, what do you estimate the retail vacancy rate to be of Simpson Street and the Fort William Core?

Based on a mental map of the street from memory, I counted 25 vacancies and 33 occupancies, which is a 43% vacancy rate. (I'm probably forgetting something though, and I didn't include the hotels, Prosvita or social services.) For the south core, I would estimate between 15% and 35%. The overall vacancy rate of both areas is probably closer to 50% when you include the abandoned hotels and vacant office space. TBDHC should look at converting some of the vacant buildings, like the West Hotel and Roy Building, into rental apartments.

Vid, what do you estimate the retail vacancy rate to be of Simpson Street and the Fort William Core?With Startek closing out of Victoriaville, I wonder if the city will take the opportunity to remove the hideous parkade entrance and construct a new entrance at ground level. I think this was mentioned in the Fort William Renewal Plan along with streetscaping and a new south entrance to the mall.[/QUOTE]

If the Parkade lacks a ramp inside the structure and the spiral ramp near the south entrance of the mall is the only way for vehicles to get between levels, it won't be very easily to accomplish that. They definitely need to do something about that area though. If they can't find a tenant soon they should look into opening up the south wall for street-level retail, like the Heart of the Harbour Parkade.

[russman]

I don't know if there's been any work on the inside, but in the past month they built a new outer wall over the post-demolition scar on the west side of the former McKellar hospital. Good to hear the project is progressing, even if slowly.

No visible change at FWCI. They'd better get to it before people get too accustomed to using the grounds as an off-leash dog park and start forming committees.
This city is so fucked up. "Save the vacant lot with a dilapidated building on it! We like to let our dogs shit there!"
No kidding. It is absolutely astounding that people can complain that we have too many empty buildings and then turn around and oppose a project to reuse one of them.

Based on a mental map of the street from memory, I counted 25 vacancies and 33 occupancies, which is a 43% vacancy rate. (I'm probably forgetting something though, and I didn't include the hotels, Prosvita or social services.) For the south core, I would estimate between 15% and 35%. The overall vacancy rate of both areas is probably closer to 50% when you include the abandoned hotels and vacant office space. TBDHC should look at converting some of the vacant buildings, like the West Hotel and Roy Building, into rental apartments. The 43% and 15 to 35% numbers sound about right, but are you sure about the 50% number? That is unbelievably high. Even some of the worst markets in the US only have a 25% office vacancy rate downtown. I guess that counts the West, Empire, Inntowner, and King Stereo Buildings though? If so, then that rate will drop dramatically when the King Stereo and Empire buildings are demolished and the new courthouse is built. The Roy Building is owned by Habib, you can find his page for that here (http://habibenterprises.ca/roy_building/overview.html).

If the Parkade lacks a ramp inside the structure and the spiral ramp near the south entrance of the mall is the only way for vehicles to get between levels, it won't be very easily to accomplish that. They definitely need to do something about that area though. If they can't find a tenant soon they should look into opening up the south wall for street-level retail, like the Heart of the Harbour Parkade.

Here is a diagram I created from memory of the Victoriaville Parkade (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_2vdD3Ce4UKY/S2SFOU56N3I/AAAAAAAAAF8/e-gYTcmWYMw/text5444.png). If I remember correctly, the entire parking surface is tilted on the Heart of the Harbour Parkade to facilitate going from level to level. Thus it would be very difficult to install a ramp inside the structure and it would result in many spaces being lost. I'm sure it would be possible to install a ramp toward the Donald Street wall though.

The call centre wraps around in a L shape along Donald and Syndicate, so the Syndicate wall could be opened up for retail as well.

I'm sure that idea was scrapped once StarTek moved into the former Bourke's and Northland Space. With the Buck or Two closing in Northwood Mall, then IMO if another large call centre wants to relocate here they would be better off in that space and the YA Canada space next door.

[vid]

I know the Roy is owned by Habib. He also owns most of that stretch of Victoria Avenue now.

I was including the Empire in vacancies but not the Twin City Gas Building. While I am very sure the Empire will be demolished this spring, that is only something I've heard, not something I've seen published (though I haven't checked tenders or the proposed demolition budget yet). The West Hotel is a large building, so it will count for a higher percentage of the leasable area. Victoriaville has a lot of empty spaces, and a lot of the office buildings aren't completely full. Thunder Bay has a weird issue where there are a lot of office vacancies, but they're mostly small pockets all over the place instead of a large chunk of empty space in a single building. Those little patches add up. You also have to consider a lot of buildings on Hardisty aren't used much, half the Odeon is unused, the building BMO was in is completely empty as far as I know, and so on. 50% might be a bit high but I think 30% would be low.

If the Victoriaville Parkade doesn't have a way for vehicles to get from level to level without using the spiral ramp, then the setup along Syndicate will have to stay unless the parkade is dismantled and re-built.

[russman]

Thunder Bay has a weird issue where there are a lot of office vacancies, but they're mostly small pockets all over the place instead of a large chunk of empty space in a single building. Those little patches add up.Unfortunately we have the same problem in retail as well. With more office construction at William and Balmoral, as well as along Golf Links and new retail in Innova Park, the problem will only get worse.

The development on the corner of Golf Links and Oliver Road was reported on tbnews a while ago as being a bar and restaurant operation. I believe that the restaurant will be a Subway.

[vid]

Subway smells funny. Weird that a bar would be attached to a Subway.

[russman]

:P Their restaurant locator (here (http://world.subway.com/Countries/frmLocatorResult.aspx?City=thunder%20bay&State=on&Zip=&CC=CAN&LC=ENG&Mode=)) shows a location at Golf Links and Oliver "not currently open".

[vid]

Have you ever been to the Shell Select at the corner of Red River and Clarkson?

[russman]

No, why?

[tjernobyl]

The Roy Building is owned by Habib, you can find his page for that here (http://habibenterprises.ca/roy_building/overview.html).

Was browsing around the site, and found the page for the former Riverdale School (http://habibenterprises.ca/riverdale_gardens/overview.html). Maybe I'd see it differently if I hadn't seen it as a fairly plain brick schoolhouse for most of my life, but wow. So many things bolted onto that building.

[vid]

That is Habib's "thing". Take an otherwise boring building and stick as much superfluous crap onto it as possible. :haha: At least he is reusing them. It looks like they've finally redesigned the website, too. There is way more information on it than there was before.

No, why?

About five or six years ago when it was a Mike's Mart, there was a Subway kiosk in it. When Beaver was converted to Shell, they kicked Mike's Mart out, gutted the place, and put in a Shell Select without a Subway kiosk. Even though they gutted the building, it still smells like Subway.

[Gitfiddler]

I dunno if this has been posted, but a pretty cool T-Bay video. Great shots for sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqg1oqfg_Y

[shreddog]

^^ Brainfart, but what is the bridge at the start of the video??

Love the call out to Crystal - oooohhhh.

[russman]

I think it's the Brown St rail overpass in Westfort.

[shreddog]

I think it's the Brown St rail overpass in Westfort.

Don't think so ... the old Brown St overpass wasn't covered and was steel ... the one in the video looks wooden and covered ... also I thought that the abandoned Brown St overpass was torn down ... here is how it looked 5 years ago ...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/shreddog/BrownStoverpass.jpg
My photo.

[russman]

I believe it was rebuilt?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3824700627_fd5077e180.jpg

from Isobel Adams on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/30479257@N04/3824700627/

[shreddog]

^^ Thanks ... it does look like it if taken with a long telephoto lens, though the bridge deb does look a little different.

[vid]

They either had to rebuild it or give the city back all the land under their rail yard, so they rebuilt it. The only people who use it are people who enjoy the novelty of our perpetual bridge to nothing. It's made of steel that is just very rusty. It makes your hands red if you touch it.

There is a way to embed youtube videos, btw:

mrqg1oqfg_Y

He has the ability to express pride in his community while admitting its faults. Something most people here can't even begin to comprehend.