Canada's Newest NHL Team: Waterloo Penguins [Archive] - Page 4

barneyg

12-08-2006, 01:12 PM

Aside from all this city-bashing and "who's got the biggest dick" competitions, I think flar summed it best with the economics argument. Even if Bettman was replaced by some Canadian, the potential economic upside of a team in the American South is probably higher than in Hamilton or Winnipeg (or Quebec City). These are much safer bets than Houston, but it's a risk/reward game (in terms of population and comparing with Winnipeg, 5% of 4,600,000 + faster growth beats 30% of 700,000 and slow growth).

Besides, no matter how much compensation the "Golden Horseshoe Penguins" give to the Sabres resulting from a move, Buffalo will walk an even tighter financial rope than it does now if it loses all/most of the Canadians who currently make the ride to HSBC. (I went to a Sabres game last year, they sing both national anthems even though no Canadian team is playing. I thought this was a pretty awesome thing.) The NHL wouldn't want to do that, so if moving the Pens to Hamilton means moving the Sabres out of Buffalo in 15 years, I'm not sure it's worth it.

(Side note: I'm a Canadian living in Pittsburgh for only a few years before I'm back in Canada. I don't have such an interest in keeping the Pens here, although I think it'd be a good decision from the NHL's point of view. They filmed Slapshot in Johnstown, PA, which is an hour away. For this reason alone, Western PA deserves to keep its NHL team.)

BlackRedGold

12-08-2006, 03:46 PM

I'm not sure. Tell me, O crackwhore king; how much do you sniff in a day? I'm sure your contributions to society are next to nothing anyways.

Unlike yourself, none. That's probably why it didn't take me 7 years for my degree.

How did you come up with this insightful question, anyhow?

Other people from Winnipeg have mentioned Darren's crack habit on other boards. And it isn't hard to believe if you read the idiocy that's on his website.

Greco Roman

12-08-2006, 04:09 PM

Unlike yourself, none. That's probably why it didn't take me 7 years for my degree .

Oh *snap*, you've revealed my weakness. WHATEVER WILL I DO???????? BTW, as for my seven year of school, I've had to work my ass off to pay for everything I've got. I haven't been able to rely on mommy and daddy to pay for all my expenses, unlike yourself I'm sure, as you are probably sitting in your parents basement wasting their money and valuable air that other more worthy people could be breathing.

Other people from Winnipeg have mentioned Darren's crack habit on other boards. And it isn't hard to believe if you read the idiocy that's on his website.

So what? Are you perfect? Who are you to judge him anyways? I would love to dig up your skeletons from you closet to humiliate you if I had the chance. Unfortunately, you would most likely never admit to them. Get a life, please.

Only The Lonely..

12-08-2006, 04:20 PM

Fight .. fight .. fight!

:lockd: :dead: :fruit: :cucumber:

Greco Roman

12-08-2006, 04:23 PM

Fight .. fight .. fight!

:lockd: :dead: :fruit: :cucumber:

You're absolutely right. There has been much childish name calling on this thread. I"m just tired of people saying that Winnipeg can't, shouldn't, won't, too poor, not good enough, etc. But I've sunk to the low of these Ontarians, and that isn't a good thing for me.

BlackRedGold

12-08-2006, 08:14 PM

.

Oh *snap*, you've revealed my weakness. WHATEVER WILL I DO????????

I suspect a career in the fast food industry would be a good fit for you. Can you say, "Would you like fries with that?"

BTW, as for my seven year of school, I've had to work my ass off to pay for everything I've got.

Maybe you wouldn't have had to work so hard if you could have completed your degree in the four years or so it normally takes.

I haven't been able to rely on mommy and daddy to pay for all my expenses, unlike yourself I'm sure, as you are probably sitting in your parents basement wasting their money and valuable air that other more worthy people could be breathing.

Actually I'm sitting in the 3000+ square foot house that I own and haven't lived with my parents for well over a decade.

So what? Are you perfect? Who are you to judge him anyways?

If he wants the attention that goes with his idiotic website then he's putting himself out there to be ridiculed. But I guess I can't judge people unless I'm a bigot from Winnipeg.

I would love to dig up your skeletons from you closet to humiliate you if I had the chance. Unfortunately, you would most likely never admit to them. Get a life, please.

I have a life and, unlike yourself, it isn't a bigoted one where I judge people based upon where they are from or currently live.

Only The Lonely..

12-08-2006, 08:41 PM

As a Winnipegger I think there's nothing wrong with the Pens moving to Hamilton. I think you guys could easily fill the place based on the population living around the city and the various companies that exist within commuting distance.

However, I also firmly believe there is a place in the NHL for a blue collar team from a passionate hockey town like Winnipeg. As I mentioned earlier, attendance wise the Jets can't do any worse than any of the Sunbelt teams.

I'm sure we're all mutually disgusted with teams existing in places that don't care about hockey. Isn't this what it’s really all about?

Take the Pens Hamilton...we'll hold out for the Coyotes.:D

Gdoggy

12-08-2006, 11:01 PM

Once again, you don't have 2 CFL teams in Hamilton. You may have 2 CFL teams in Ontario, but that's much different than the city of Hamilton. You should maybe realize that Toronto and Hamilton are not in the same metro area. It would be like saying Boston and Washington are really the same area, since they are connected by the Bosnywash urban corridor.

uhm no, Ontario has 3 CFL teams... while TO and Hamilton are not in the same metro area, they do share suburbs, I know living in an isolated city where there is no such thing as a real suburb, it is hard for you to comprehend, but this does in fact happen in the real world..

No, Hamilton only has 715,000 people in their metro area. You are just fooling yourself, if you think Toronto and Hamilton are one and the same. They are not.

since you are just repeating yourself, I will too

while TO and Hamilton are not in the same metro area, they do share suburbs, I know living in an isolated city where there is no such thing as a real suburb, it is hard for you to comprehend, but this does in fact happen in the real world..

:rolleyes:

Only The Lonely..

12-08-2006, 11:12 PM

uhm no, Ontario has 3 CFL teams...:

Didn't Ottawa fold? I'm pretty certain we took some of their better players in the dispersal draft.

Unless you happen to know something about Ottawa getting a team that we don't know about..

Gdoggy

12-09-2006, 06:38 AM

Didn't Ottawa fold? I'm pretty certain we took some of their better players in the dispersal draft.

Unless you happen to know something about Ottawa getting a team that we don't know about..

yes, there is no CFL in Ottawa anymore... shows how important it is on the sports radar :haha: they can have the argos !!

Greco Roman

12-09-2006, 06:33 PM

On second though, never mind.

itom 987

12-09-2006, 08:01 PM

BlackRedGold and Albertaboy, cut it out.

Dalreg

12-09-2006, 09:43 PM

That is so funny. You are scolding those two? I can think of worse comments made in this thread than that.

Jets4Life

12-09-2006, 11:15 PM

That is so funny. You are scolding those two? I can think of worse comments made in this thread than that.

Yes, I have been guilty of making silly comments about Ontario. For that, I apologize to all Ontarioians.

Having said that, I hope both Hamilton and Winnipeg acquire NHL teams, as I believe BOTH areas can support pro hockey.

Only The Lonely..

12-10-2006, 12:26 AM

Yes, I have been guilty of making silly comments about Ontario. For that, I apologize to all Ontarioians.

Having said that, I hope both Hamilton and Winnipeg acquire NHL teams, as I believe BOTH areas can support pro hockey.

Amen.

Greco Roman

12-10-2006, 12:38 AM

I must admit that I got caught up in the stupidity as well. I also apologize.

Lucky 24

12-10-2006, 02:04 AM

BlackRedGold

12-10-2006, 03:07 AM

NHL in Kitchener? No offense to Kitchener.....but c'mon. Can you imagine the Kitchener Penguins at Madison Square Gardens? It just sounds soooo wierd.

Twenty years ago could you have pictured the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim at Maple Leaf Gardens?

Lucky 24

12-10-2006, 03:31 AM

Sure I could....maybe not the might ducks part...but definitely Ahaheim...Anaheim already major league teams before the ducks...they had the Angels...and they had a much much larger population.

K/W does have a large population within a 100 KM area, but if I know Torontonians, they will not drive to Kitchener to support another team unless the Leafs are the visiting team. If another team was founded within close proximity to Toronto....such as Mississauga or Hamilton or within the city proper itself...then definitely there will be a lot of people switching allegiance to the new team. But K/W is really getting out of the way....it's about an hour drive more or less from central T.O. depending on traffic...it's on the very very fringe of the GTA. And on game nights, you better add another 30-40 minutes to the commute.

Who knows, maybe in a very unlikely change they might defy the odds and be hugely successful..but I will be willing to bet my portfolio that a NHL team in Kitchener would not work..at least, not in my lifetime and I'm pretty young.

jeremy_haak

12-10-2006, 12:13 PM

^ And this whole debate starts over again. Is there really any need to start this all over with Kitchener? As far as I can tell, it's all be said already with Hamilton.

Waterlooson

12-10-2006, 01:59 PM

The only reason Kitchener ever was mentioned was because Jim Balsillie who is buying the Penguins lives in K-W. The real prospect - if the team is moved - is Hamilton. No question about it.

Hammer Town

12-10-2006, 06:31 PM

Hamilton should get a team. for so many great reason. First off they would do well for attendance because more people can't afford to go to a Leaf game to watch them Lose because they are so over priced or they are sold out. Second think of the Rivalry that would come out of it with Toronto Buffalo and Hamilton. That would be awesome. he pens are a pretty good team with some great players then might stay or they might leave it doesn't really matter. For the record Hamilton is actually one the the originaly 6 teams before them moved to NYC. Anyway I think it would work. I also think they would actually win games too.

as a side note and leaf fans reading this. Your teams sucks beyond anything else I can think of. In fact they suck so bad that there is nothing to compare the level of crap they represent with. Maybe Toronto should ship them to the US along with the rest of there Garbage.

Go Bruins Go:)

Waterlooson

12-11-2006, 01:14 AM

K/W does have a large population within a 100 KM area....

I think you meant radius rather than area, but no sh1t genius. The population within a 100 km radius of K/W is substantially larger than that of Quebec. The population within a 50 km radius of K/W is nearly triple that of Winnipeg's CMA.... yet you think that an NHL team couldn't work in K/W.

Archiseek

12-11-2006, 02:35 AM

last nights hnic said that the penguins weren't going anywhere as the isle of capri bid was now believed to be the leading contender

Boomtown_Hamilton

12-11-2006, 08:02 AM

NHL in Kitchener? No offense to Kitchener.....but c'mon. Can you imagine the Kitchener Penguins at Madison Square Gardens? It just sounds soooo wierd.
If that were to happen, Hamiltonians might declare war on Kitchener or the NHL.

If the team is based out of Kitchener it might be named after the province of ONTARIO instead of the city of Kitchener....The ONTARIO PENGUINS....That's how I think they would do it.

Boomtown_Hamilton

12-11-2006, 08:13 AM

Greco Roman

12-11-2006, 11:13 AM

Well, ok. We'll forgive you this time.:cheers:

Does it not go both ways?

Jets4Life

12-11-2006, 06:57 PM

Does it not go both ways?

Shhhh...you're feeding the troll! ;)

AJphx

12-11-2006, 08:07 PM

Take the Pens Hamilton...we'll hold out for the Coyotes.:D
well the coyotes just got their own arena... so winnepeg had better go for the penguins or it could be a long wait.

anyway since there are questions over whether the league would even allow a team in hamilton and quebec city doesnt really even have a useable arena; if the new canadian owners really wanted to move the team to canada then it seems like winnepeg (which has a new arena right?) would be the only plausible location right now...

Boomtown_Hamilton

12-12-2006, 03:27 AM

well the coyotes just got their own arena... so winnepeg had better go for the penguins or it could be a long wait.

anyway since there are questions over whether the league would even allow a team in hamilton and quebec city doesnt really even have a useable arena; if the new canadian owners really wanted to move the team to canada then it seems like winnepeg (which has a new arena right?) would be the only plausible location right now...

Wrong...I think if Jim Balsillie had the option of moving the team out of Pittsburgh it would be to some place like home in Waterloo or some place NEAR home like Hamilton.....if he can't move the team to either one then why would he want to move the team to Winnipeg?....he has no real connection to that city whatsoever....he may as well just move the team to Omaha Nebraska if Waterloo-Hamilton is out of the question. That's what I would do.

Greco Roman

12-12-2006, 03:30 AM

Wrong...I think if Jim Balsillie had the option of moving the team out of Pittsburgh it would be to some like home in Waterloo or some place near home like Hamilton.....if he can't move the team to either one then why would he want to move the team to Winnipeg?....he has no real connection to that city whatsoever....he may as well just move the team to Omaha Nebraska if Waterloo-Hamilton is out of the question. That's what I would do.

:rolleyes: yadda, yadda, yadda

Only The Lonely..

12-12-2006, 04:40 AM

Perhaps if the team moves to Winnipeg we can make Hamilton our farm team...

Then everyone wins.

Boomtown_Hamilton

12-12-2006, 12:08 PM

:rolleyes: yadda, yadda, yadda

I got more than one PC.:haha:

Boomtown_Hamilton

12-12-2006, 12:12 PM

To whom it may concern...I've been trying to post in this forum all night but one of the Mods had me locked out for no reason...possibly a Mod from Winnipeg I suspect? play nice boys and girls ok?:haha:

vid

12-12-2006, 11:39 PM

A mod from Winnipeg? :O

We have that?

Dalreg

12-13-2006, 12:58 AM

Boomtown_Hamilton

12-13-2006, 07:25 AM

Seriously doubt that.

What exactly do you "seriously doubt?".....that I have more than one PC?...OR, that I was locked out of this forum last night? :D

Dalreg

12-13-2006, 03:33 PM

What exactly do you "seriously doubt?".....that I have more than one PC?...OR, that I was locked out of this forum last night? :D

That you were locked out. The site has had access issues with the server. Can't believe you were locked out without notice. Trust me if you were banned or suspended you would know.

Don't get stessed out about nothing.:jester:

zerokarma

12-13-2006, 07:37 PM

last nights hnic said that the penguins weren't going anywhere as the isle of capri bid was now believed to be the leading contender

I hope for their sake that goes ahead otherwise that team will be moving for sure.

Waterlooson

12-13-2006, 11:09 PM

As reported in The Record:

http://www.therecord.com/breakingnews/breakingnews_8477844.html

Wednesday, December 13, 2006 | Updated at 12:43 PM EST

Balsillie says Penguins will stay in Pittsburgh, provided a solid plan exists for new arena
HARRISBURG, Pa.

Pittsburgh Penguins owner Jim Balsillie of Waterloo today told the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board he intends to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh, according to a report posted on the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review’s web site.

According to the newspaper, Balsillie, chairman and co-CEO of Waterloo-based Research In Motion, said he’ll keep the team in Pittsburgh as long as there's a solid plan for a new arena.

“The commitment is there on the presumption you can come through with a viable (arena) plan agreement, yes,” he said in response to a question from board member Mary Colins, who asked Balsillie point blank whether he’ll keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh if the Pens’ partner, Isle of Capri Casinos, doesn’t win a slots license next week.

The control board next Wednesday is scheduled to award slot licenses across the state, includng a casino in Pittsburgh. Isle of Capri is competing with Forest City’s proposed Station Square Casino and Majestic Star’s proposed North Shore facility. Isle of Capri would build a casino Uptown, near the existing Mellon Arena.

Balsillie said the Isle of Capri proposal is still the best plan, because it removes any doubt about the team’s future and doesn’t use tax money. Isle of Capri has said it will pay $290 milion toward an arena if it wins a gambling license in Pittsburgh.

But Balsillie told board members he would pursue the so-called Plan B arena proposal made by Gov. Ed Rendell if Isle of Capri is not awarded a license.

It involves a share of public money, along with money required from the casino and team.

“If Isle of Capri is not awarded a license, then we'll pursue Plan B with all the political decision makers,” Balsillie said.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is on record as saying that the only certain way to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh is if the Isle of Capri is awarded the city’s gaming license.

Among the rumoured destinations if the Penguins move are Kansas City, Portland, Ore., and Oklahoma City. Waterloo Region is considered a possibility, mainly by Canadians, due to the population base, Canadians’ fondness for hockey and the fact a Waterloo team would potentially draw fans from the Greater Toronto Area to the east and London to the west.

However, Canadian franchises are not good draws in American centres, which is considered a sticking point in any hopes of the NHL coming to Waterloo Region.

Sources: Pittsburgh Tribune-Review; Pittsburghpenguins.com; Record staff

Clearly, the stuff about the team possibly going to other US cities or to Waterloo is pure speculation on the part of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. I mean they didn't even mention Hamilton - geeze.:shrug:

jeremy_haak

12-13-2006, 11:21 PM

I mean they didn't even mention Hamilton - geeze.:shrug:

Well, that's just ensured another five pages for this thread. :rolleyes:

Waterlooson

12-13-2006, 11:50 PM

Well, that's just ensured another five pages for this thread. :rolleyes:

You mean another 10 pages, because they didn't mention Winnipeg either. :jester:

Greco Roman

12-14-2006, 12:35 AM

You mean another 10 pages, because they didn't mention Winnipeg either. :jester:

Or Saskatoon, Regina, Thunder Bay, Victoria, Windsor or Halifax.

Make that 40 pages. :haha:

vid

12-14-2006, 12:50 AM

Lakehead University is working on getting more land from the city to build a new 10,000 seat multi-use centre, just a few blocks away from me. I'm not sure an NHL team would work out, though. Since the Minnesota Wild appeared we've started supporting them, and the local market is less than a million. Even if all of Northern Ontario, Northern Minnesota backed the team it would have barely a million people to root for it.

We could host games though, even with Fort William Gardens I'm sure an NHL game could be played, though the 5500 seat capacity might not make it very profitable. A new arena could use something big like this as it's opening act though, it would be cool to have happen. But it is at least 8 years away.

Bidoup

12-14-2006, 01:09 AM

If a new team had to move in Canada Winipeg and Quebec should be the two first cities to take in consideration.... not hamilton, you already have Toronto, Buffalo and detroit in this region

Dalreg

12-14-2006, 02:15 AM

SHOFEAR

12-14-2006, 02:53 AM

Here we go again. Just when I thought this thread would die.

Well I'll throw the first stone. Saskatoon is getting a preseason game next year maybe this is just the prelude to moving a franchise here. We did have the Blues at one point. Maybe now we can get the Pens.:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Well, some cities seem to believe hosting pre-season games=testing the market....

Whats the distribution of NHL support like in Saskatoon? I'm guessing mostly Oilers, Flames and Leafs...

waterloowarrior

12-14-2006, 03:16 AM

Here we go again. Just when I thought this thread would die.

Well I'll throw the first stone. Saskatoon is getting a preseason game next year maybe this is just the prelude to moving a franchise here. We did have the Blues at one point. Maybe now we can get the Pens.:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Hehe, I would be worried about your competition, a densely populated metropolis that hosted a game this fall... Truro, Nova Scotia. ;)

Gdoggy

12-14-2006, 03:25 AM

Dalreg

12-14-2006, 03:32 AM

Well, some cities seem to believe hosting pre-season games=testing the market....

Whats the distribution of NHL support like in Saskatoon? I'm guessing mostly Oilers, Flames and Leafs...

Very few oiler fans. We tend to favour Leafs, Canadiens, and Flames.

As for testing market you missed the:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Dalreg

12-14-2006, 03:34 AM

this is what you should take into consideration...

if it moves, the team is going to go where the owner wants to move it to... :yes:

So people aren't entitled to their own opinion?:rolleyes:

SHOFEAR

12-14-2006, 04:11 AM

As for testing market you missed the:haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:

Oh, no i didn't. :tup:

Only The Lonely..

12-14-2006, 06:53 AM

Sorry gang, I couldn't resist the urge to carry this over from the Saskatoon hockey thread. In a better world both our fine cities would have hockey teams. The passion still runs deep. Good luck Hamilton!

Do people in Saskatoon or Regina have any particular allegiance to a certain team?

I think it's funny how Edmonton became Winnipeg's default home team. Afterall, they were our sworn arch nemisis back in the day. I still can't bring myself to like the Oilers. Although I do admire Edmonton's blue collar work ethic.

http://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/images/wo_fans1.jpghttp://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/images/wo_fans2.jpg
http://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/images/wo_fans3.jpghttp://www.curtiswalker.com/jets/images/weasel_white.jpg

Cool Jets Youtube videos.

The largest Winnipeg public gathering since WW2. SAVE THE JETS!

Jets Final Game - News Clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1zBZPyZIJ8&mode=related&search=

Jets TV commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnXOY2XMJ-8

Jets Vs Flames bench clearing brawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0CYWWs81Ic

The future? Sold out MTS centre welcomes Edmonton Vs Phoenix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8J3GmGjIMk&mode=related&search=

jeremy_haak

12-14-2006, 11:42 AM

Hehe, I would be worried about your competition, a densely populated metropolis that hosted a game this fall... Truro, Nova Scotia. ;)

Yes, but did they sell out? ;)

Gdoggy

12-14-2006, 12:10 PM

So people aren't entitled to their own opinion?:rolleyes:

when you think detroit is in the region... NO...

Archiseek

12-14-2006, 02:35 PM

In The Slot- Bring ‘em north for gate success
By Ken Campbell, The Hockey News Senior Writer

Gary Bettman and his feel-good administration would undoubtedly dismiss it as nothing more than ‘a snapshot.’ When it comes to his league’s growing – or is that shrinking? – attendance problems, Bettman hates it when people throw snapshots in his face.

The night of Nov. 30 was an ominous indicator for a league that is consistently being saved by its chartered members from Canada.

That night, the NHL had a slate of 10 games on the schedule. Those 10 games drew a total of 130,126 fans for an average of just 13,013 per game. All told, NHL arenas that night played to an average of 72 per cent of capacity. Think about it. Ten games and on average they played before houses that were less than three-quarters full.

It gets worse. Much worse. Subtract the games played in Canada that night and you end up with a total of 77,473 fans for an average of just 11,068 per game. In the United States of America that night, buildings averaged just 61.4 per cent of capacity.

That included a traditional market in Boston where just 11,150 came out to watch a surging Bruins team play an equally surging Tampa Bay Lightning squad. That included the home of the Stanley Cup champs, where an “announced” crowd of just 13,103, the smallest of the season, came out to see the Carolina Hurricanes host Montreal. It included a game in Long Island, where a minor league baseball-type promotion exists in which each adult who pays for a ticket gets to take a child into the game for free and an “announced” crowd of just 10,280 showed up.

We put the word announced in quotation marks because in some markets with attendance troubles, attendance is measured by the number of tickets that go out of the building, not necessarily by the number of people who come in. So, if the team gives out 2,000 free tickets, those people are counted among the crowd whether they attend or not. That way they can dupe corporate sponsors into thinking people actually go to their games.

But the news was worst in St. Louis, where icy weather resulted in announced crowd of 5,410 – observers said there were no more than 1,500 actually in attendance – to watch the Blues lose to the Nashville Predators. The next night, 25 games in the Canadian Hockey League and 11 in the American League attracted more people.

It marked the eighth time this season the Blues have played in front of fewer than 10,000 people. Last season it happened just three times league-wide.

talk is cheap

There’s always an excuse in St. Louis this season. First, it was because the Cardinals were in the playoffs. The night of Nov. 30, it was icy outside. The team stinks. But if the fan base was actually passionate about the Blues, they would put up with a losing team for a couple of years, more than 1,500 people would battle icy weather and the real hockey fans would have taped the baseball games and watched them when they got home.

All of it has to make new owner Dave Checketts wonder whether it’s worth keeping his team in St. Louis. Meanwhile, new Pittsburgh Penguins owner Jim Balsillie will definitely move the Penguins if Pennsylvania’s gaming commission doesn’t choose a casino proposal that would include a new arena for his team.

How about this? Balsillie and others move their teams to places where people actually like hockey. The Winnipeg Jets left 10 years ago in the hopes hockey would catch on in the desert and, as cold as it can get there at night, people are still basically ignoring the Coyotes and their famous coach. The Lightning has caught on in Tampa Bay, but south Florida is a hockey wasteland. Carolina? Give me a break. Sellouts in seven of 13 games for the Hurricanes the year after winning the Cup?

The American Dream is dead when it comes to the NHL. But there are two strong markets in southern Ontario and Winnipeg – and possibly a third in Quebec City if they build a new rink – that would embrace the NHL and make things better for both the owners and the players in the process.

The appetite for hockey is insatiable in southern Ontario and that’s why Balsillie could move his team to the Kitchener-Waterloo area if things collapse with the Penguins. There are enough corporate dollars to go around and the area has a far larger fan base than any of Las Vegas, Portland, Oklahoma City or Houston do. And with cost certainty now a part of life in the NHL, there’s no reason why a properly-run Winnipeg franchise couldn’t become the Green Bay Packers of the NHL.

Players and owners would both benefit. With two or three more healthy franchises replacing the moribund, that’s fewer teams with whom to share revenues. And with the players’ take tied directly into revenues, they would have more money to themselves as well.

With the exception of Ottawa, every seat in every Canadian rink has been legitimately sold the past two seasons. People in Canada are spending money on hockey. It’s time the NHL gave them more.

This story originally appeared in the Dec. 19 edition of The Hockey News.

habsfan

12-14-2006, 03:06 PM

If a new team had to move in Canada Winipeg and Quebec should be the two first cities to take in consideration.... not hamilton, you already have Toronto, Buffalo and detroit in this region

is what you should take into consideration...

if it moves, the team is going to go where the owner wants to move it to...

So people aren't entitled to their own opinion?

i hate to say it, but i have to agree with gdoggy.

If the State of Pennsylvania doesn'T allow a casino to be built with the arena, Balsillie can move the team anywhere HE wants. After all, he paid for the team!

by the way, that was a great article Archiseek. Thanks!

SHOFEAR

12-14-2006, 03:18 PM

If the State of Pennsylvania doesn'T allow a casino to be built with the arena, Balsillie can move the team anywhere HE wants (With approval from the league). After all, he paid for the team!

missed one point.

Waterlooson

12-14-2006, 05:44 PM

In The Slot- Bring ‘em north for gate success
By Ken Campbell, The Hockey News Senior Writer

The American Dream is dead when it comes to the NHL. But there are two strong markets in southern Ontario and Winnipeg – and possibly a third in Quebec City if they build a new rink – that would embrace the NHL and make things better for both the owners and the players in the process.

This story originally appeared in the Dec. 19 edition of The Hockey News.

It was recently reported in the media that based on Internet searches, Canadians are more interested in hockey than anything else.... whereas Americans are most interested in what their celebrities are doing, like whether or not Britney Spears is still going around without panties and acting like a slut. In other words, Americans are more interested in bubble headed bimbos than something really important like hockey. :haha: So move the damned teams back here! :notacrook:

Greco Roman

12-14-2006, 06:25 PM

double post

Greco Roman

12-14-2006, 06:27 PM

Sigh...................... I miss the "White Outs" at the old Winnipeg Arena :( ; they were once known as the loudest in the league.

Greco Roman

12-14-2006, 06:29 PM

.............and most passionate too.

Gdoggy

12-14-2006, 10:48 PM

missed one point.

If the NFL can't stop an owner from moving, do you really think the NHL can ?
they couldn't stop teams from moving to strong fanbases like
Baltimore
Cleveland
St. Louis
Oakland
and of course there's always LA which will probably eternally lose teams

you think the NFL wanted those teams to move ? even the mighty NFL learned it can't be stopped...
:haha:

Dalreg

12-14-2006, 11:07 PM

If the NFL can't stop an owner from moving, do you really think the NHL can ?
they couldn't stop teams from moving to strong fanbases like
Baltimore
Cleveland
St. Louis
Oakland
and of course there's always LA which will probably eternally lose teams

you think the NFL wanted those teams to move ? even the mighty NFL learned it can't be stopped...
:haha:

We've been over these points time after time. I will put this clearly so you slow people can get the drift. The Pens have a legally binding agreement to stay in Pittsburgh. The only way they can move is if an arena doesn't get built. If you have been following things there are three groups bidding for a casino license in Pittsburgh. Doesn't matter who wins as all three have agreements with Pittsburgh to provide either an arena or money in the sum of $200 million+ for an arena. So it doesn't matter who gets the casino license as an arena will be built any way.

Just one more point NHL and NFL are not the same thing doggy.

Gdoggy

12-14-2006, 11:09 PM

We've been over these points time after time. I will put this clearly so you slow people can get the drift. The Pens have a legally binding agreement to stay in Pittsburgh. The only way they can move is if an arena doesn't get built. If you have been following things there are three groups bidding for a casino license in Pittsburgh. Doesn't matter who wins as all three have agreements with Pittsburgh to provide either an arena or money in the sum of $200 million+ for an arena. So it doesn't matter who gets the casino license as an arena will be built any way.

I think you're the one that is slow buddy... he's only commited if a certain group wins the bid, anyone else wins, he's is not bound by anything... re-educate yourself on the matter...

Jets4Life

12-15-2006, 03:34 AM

If the NFL can't stop an owner from moving, do you really think the NHL can ?

Yes.

It happened in 1983 with the St. Louis Blues. Bill Hunter bought the team, and was in the process of moving them to Saskatoon. The NHL blocked the move at the 11th hour, and Hunter had the Blues boycott the 1983 NHL Entry Draft, in protest.:cool:

Jets4Life

12-15-2006, 03:37 AM

Sigh...................... I miss the "White Outs" at the old Winnipeg Arena :( ; they were once known as the loudest in the league.

I have first-hand experience witnessing a Winnipeg White-out. It was something that you would have to experience to fully appreciate. It was awesome.

flar

12-15-2006, 03:40 AM

I'm willing to bet the NHL's board of governors has the ability to block a team from moving. I also think they will try to block any teams from moving to Canada.

Waterlooson

12-15-2006, 04:06 AM

I will put this clearly so you slow people can get the drift.... So it doesn't matter who gets the casino license as an arena will be built any way.

It looks like you are the one who isn't paying attention. According to Bettman, it does matter. :yes:

You need to read post #342

"NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is on record as saying that the only certain way to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh is if the Isle of Capri is awarded the city’s gaming license."

Waterlooson

12-15-2006, 04:15 AM

I'm willing to bet the NHL's board of governors has the ability to block a team from moving. I also think they will try to block any teams from moving to Canada.

You may very well be right on that.... consider how long Hamilton has been waiting for a team - many decades and nothing.... perhaps Canadians should have their own professional level league and tell the NHL to go to hell?

Gdoggy

12-15-2006, 12:38 PM

Yes.

It happened in 1983 with the St. Louis Blues. Bill Hunter bought the team, and was in the process of moving them to Saskatoon. The NHL blocked the move at the 11th hour, and Hunter had the Blues boycott the 1983 NHL Entry Draft, in protest.:cool:

Well the owner has to be willing to fight them in court over the matter, which is what the Raiders did. Hunter just gave the team to the NHL and moved on... the NHL can't afford to legally challenge a billionaire, and none of those owners are gonna put up their own money to fight it either. Face it, when the guy backed down from buying the team the first time it was because he thought he couldn't move the team. When he resurfaced to buy them months later, you know he knows he can move them now. Only one thing stands in the way right now, come dec. 20 we'll know for sure. :D

drew

12-15-2006, 11:50 PM

hot off the press...

RIM exec withdraws Penguins offer

Last Updated: Friday, December 15, 2006 | 7:30 PM ET
The Canadian Press

The Pittsburgh Penguins say Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie has withdrawn his offer to buy the NHL team.

Penguins owner Mario Lemieux says the team will re-evaluate its situation after a decision is made on a Pittsburgh gaming licence.

Research in Motion co-CEO Jim Balsillie signed an agreement to buy the Pittsburgh Penguins in October.
(Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press) Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. has promised to build a $290-million US arena to replace 45-year-old Mellon Arena — at no cost to taxpayers or the team — if it's awarded the licence.

Balsillie is co-chief executive officer of Canada's Research In Motion Ltd. He signed an agreement to buy the team in October.

The purchase price was reported at $175 million.

More to come

Smron

12-16-2006, 12:15 AM

RIM exec withdraws Penguins offer
Last Updated: Friday, December 15, 2006 | 8:03 PM ET
CBC Sports

Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie withdrew his offer to purchase the Pittsburgh Penguins, the team announced Friday.

Balsillie, co-chief executive officer of Canada's Research in Motion Ltd. — the maker of the BlackBerry — agreed to buy the Penguins for $175 million US in October, pending approval by the league.

"Jim Balsillie delivered a notice of termination today, and it is our understanding that he has stopped negotiating with the National Hockey League to get the necessary consent to buy the Pittsburgh Penguins," current owner Mario Lemieux said in a news release.

"While these developments create significant uncertainty, the Penguins organization will re-evaluate our situation after the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board makes the decision on the awarding of the Pittsburgh gaming licence."

Isle of Capri Casinos Inc., one of several candidates bidding for a casino licence for a new downtown Pittsburgh slot machine parlour, agreed to build a $290-million arena for the Penguins to take the place of the 45-year-old Mellon Arena.

Taxpayers would avoid any costs should the Capri group receive the licence.

The licence is expected to be awarded next week.

"What is clear is the best way to assure that the team remains viable and in Pittsburgh is to award the gaming licence to the Isle of Capri," Lemieux said.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman also acknowledged that the Penguins' future in Pittsburgh is dependent on the Isle of Capri licence being granted.

"Today's development was unfortunate," he said in a statement. "If the Isle of Capri is not granted the licence on Wednesday, then an already difficult and volatile situation will be aggravated.

"It is imperative that the Penguins have a new arena on economic terms that make sense for the franchise for the team to remain in Pittsburgh."

The news is a potential blow to the Penguins with Balsillie and his deep pockets now gone.

His firm generated revenues of $631.1 million in the three months ending June 3, up 35 per cent from $453.9 million in the same period a year earlier.

With files from the Canadian Press

Only The Lonely..

12-16-2006, 12:18 AM

Indeed, the white outs were a force to reckon with..

The Winnipeg White Out is a hockey tradition that dates back to 1985 when hockey fans in Winnipeg were asked to wear white clothing to home playoff games in Winnipeg, creating a very intimidating effect and atmosphere. It was created as a response to the "sea of red" created by fans of the Calgary Flames, whom the home town Winnipeg Jets were facing in the first round of the playoffs. The Jets would eliminate the Flames in four games, and fans wore white for every playoff game since. Fans coined it the "White Out".

The tradition has since been carried on in Phoenix, where the Jets relocated in 1996 to become the Phoenix Coyotes.

Several other teams have since tried to replicate the success of this tradition. The Philadelphia Flyers gave away orange t-shirts to create an "orange crush" against their semi-final opponent, the Tampa Bay Lightning, who countered with a white out of their own.

Among other teams, Anaheim Mighty Ducks fans have also attempted the White Out, along with fans of the Buffalo Sabres in the 2006 Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The tradition is also prevalent in other sports, as the student section at Penn State's Beaver Stadium held a white out during the nationally televised football game between Penn State and Ohio State in October 2005. This revitalized the tradition for fans doing color outs. Additionally, White out was also announced for the game against Wisconsin in November 2005 and against Michigan on October 2006. Penn State also started the Zombie Nation trend.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg_White_Out"

What Crosby would look like in a Jets uniform..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Winsuncoverlarge.jpg

vid

12-16-2006, 02:28 AM

Can you post a link to that 20,000% interest story? :)

Gdoggy

12-16-2006, 02:38 AM

Waterlooson

12-16-2006, 02:56 AM

Just proves he had no intention of keeping it in Pittsburgh...
smart to cancel, let the american NHL owners pay to keep it in Pittsburgh
just go after another team Jim !!
:tup:

I have to agree with you.... I would also guess that had the arena deal with Capri not worked out, the NHL told Balsillie that he could only move the team to another US city.... no way in hell were they going to let him move the team to Canada. :(

I say screw the NHL.

Only The Lonely..

12-16-2006, 03:08 AM

I have to agree with you.... I would also guess that had the arena deal with Capri not worked out, the NHL told Balsillie that he could only move the team to another US city.... no way in hell were they going to let him move the team to Canada. :(

I say screw the NHL.

I've been saying that since '96.

Fuck hockey! Bettman has turned the league into a laughing stock on par with arena football and professional ultimate.

At least there's always football, and horse racing.

flar

12-16-2006, 03:25 AM

Then there are three possibilities:
1 either Isle of Capri will get the license, or
2 the team can't be moved Ontario (territorial rights), or
3 the team can't be moved to Canada (stupid NHL).

Waterlooson

12-16-2006, 03:36 AM

I've been saying that since '96.

Fuck hockey! Bettman has turned the league into a laughing stock on par with arena football and professional ultimate.

At least there's always football, and horse racing.

There's also the CHL.... maybe this is why junior hockey as become so popular.... Canadians are getting fed up with the NHL's BS.

flar

12-16-2006, 04:53 AM

Looking at what Bettman actually says, the NHL is NOT dead set on keeping the team in Pittsburgh. The sticking point is definitely the part about the NHL taking control of the team from Balsillie if the situation gets worse, which it would if Isle of Capri doesn't win the gaming license. In this case taking control of the team means moving them to Houston or KC. It's completely obvious now that the NHL does not want another Canadian team (and history shows they especially don't want one in Hamilton).

Here's the entire statement (from www.pittsburghpenguins.com)

Statement from NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman:

“Today’s development was unfortunate. If the Isle of Capri is not granted the license on Wednesday, then an already difficult and volatile situation will be aggravated. It is imperative that the Penguins have a new arena on economic terms that make sense for the franchise for the team to remain in Pittsburgh.”

Smron

12-16-2006, 05:20 AM

Seriously, how many years does Bettman have left as commissioner? He's gotta be gettin' old.

Dalreg

12-16-2006, 06:45 AM

SteelTown

12-16-2006, 07:35 AM

I believe this was part of Balsillie's plan. Pretend to buy the team and royally screw the franchise by giving up two weeks before the decision which gets the gaming license in Pittsburgh. Odds are against Capri, hence Governor making a Plan B.

So now it seems Capri probably won’t get the license and Pittsburgh will be left with no owner willing to keep it in Pittsburgh. Sounds like the Penguins are relocating, to where though? Hmm perhaps Balsillie will reappear once the For Sale sign is up.

Only The Lonely..

12-16-2006, 08:21 AM

Seriously, how many years does Bettman have left as commissioner? He's gotta be gettin' old.

What I find amazing is that this man single handedly killed hockey for a whole generation of fans. Leave it to a big shot NYC corporate lawyer to run a hockey league..:yuck:

I wish Bettman would lose his job like Goodenow.

circle33

12-16-2006, 02:19 PM

I think it had to be the full NHL Board of Governors, and not Bettman alone, that scuttled Balsille's plans. I'll bet a lot of owners weren't thrilled at the prospect of putting "Tonight vrs Kitchener-Waterloo" on the marquee.

Gdoggy

12-16-2006, 03:15 PM

Dam that has to hurt for all you Ontarians! Hate to say it but told you so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much crow you eating now gdog?

At least Saskatchewan has NHL next year even if it is preseason. Better than Hamilton or Kitchener.

I'm not eating any crow... They changed the condition of sale on him at the last minute, and they did it because they knew he COULD move the team. Which proves my point exactly, they can't stop him from relocating to where he wants it...

And there is always the possibility he will still buy it, the NHL will have to change their terms tho. Especially if no one else steps forward. If the capri group do not get the license, I don't see who is going to buy them...

Just think, the next guy who buys them can offer 25 million less, if you were selling the team, would you be happy losing 25 million because of the NHL?

I'm sure he will just wait and go after another team after that...

as for a pre-season NHL game, who cares ? it's just a teaser game... "LOOK WHAT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE SASKATOON"

that said, shouldn't you be out plowing a field or something, dalreg ?

:cheers:

SHOFEAR

12-16-2006, 03:33 PM

They changed the condition of sale on him at the last minute, and they did it because they knew he COULD move the team. Which proves my point exactly, they can't stop him from relocating to where he wants it...

It doesn't matter how the NHL "controlled" a move. They ended up getting envolved and they got what they want, for now.

Gdoggy

12-16-2006, 03:37 PM

It doesn't matter how the NHL "controlled" a move. They ended up getting envolved and they got what they want, for now.

Who is going to buy them and promise to keep them in Pittsburgh no matter what ? It's an impossible thing to ask for... what will piss me off, is if whoever buys them gets it under different terms than Balsillie, i'm sure he may sue the NHL if that were to happen too... The NHL may have just dug the Pens grave.

GreatTallNorth2

12-16-2006, 05:32 PM

At least Saskatchewan has NHL next year even if it is preseason. Better than Hamilton or Kitchener.

What are you talking about? Hamilton has pre-season games all the time and so does London and Kitchener has recently too.

SHOFEAR

12-16-2006, 05:50 PM

Who is going to buy them and promise to keep them in Pittsburgh no matter what ? It's an impossible thing to ask for... what will piss me off, is if whoever buys them gets it under different terms than Balsillie, i'm sure he may sue the NHL if that were to happen too... The NHL may have just dug the Pens grave.

Yeah, it could get really interesing when a guy from KC or Houston buys them and the intent to stay it Pittsburg clause gets removed or a giant loophole is found.

flar

12-16-2006, 07:37 PM

Bettman doesn't care if the team moves, as long as it's to somewhere in the US.

Waterlooson

12-16-2006, 09:05 PM

Bettman doesn't care if the team moves, as long as it's to somewhere in the US.

Exactly.

Jets4Life

12-16-2006, 09:13 PM

There's also the CHL.... maybe this is why junior hockey as become so popular.... Canadians are getting fed up with the NHL's BS.

I wish Winnipeg would get a Junior team.

Greco Roman

12-16-2006, 10:12 PM

Edmonton's getting a WHL team; why can't Winnipeg?

SHOFEAR

12-16-2006, 10:45 PM

Greco Roman

12-16-2006, 11:45 PM

If you want junior hockey so bad go and support the Bisons. Edmonton supports the Golden Bears like no other major city and smaller centers like Thunder Bay draw massive crowds.

It's damn good hockey and with enough public support and pressure the CIS would be forced to drop the "academic" approach it takes regarding some of their rules.

Its not that people want it "so bad", but the Moose and the AHL in general is not great quality hockey, IMO. When I lived in Lethbridge, I attended several Hurricanes games, and for $10 dollars a pop, that was good quality, entertaining hockey. When I attended both Moose and Roadrunner's games, I found the teams to be slow and lacking in enthusiasm.

I find that both the NHL and WHL are better quality hockey, and that is what Winnipeg wants; NHL moreso than WHL, but something better.

Waterlooson

12-17-2006, 12:41 AM

Bettman has problems - too bad. :(

I would imagine they are of his own making. :D

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Sports/Hockey/2006/12/16/2823560-sun.html

With the lockout headache in the rear-view mirror, there's a new slate of potholes on the hockey road navigated by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman.

An unbalanced schedule heavy on division rivalries, the battle to keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh, a shrinking TV audience and attendance woes in some of the league's traditional markets all keep the league's head honcho from resting on a legacy of instilling a cap on player salaries.

Stanley Cup victories by Tampa Bay and Carolina have helped the league's profile and popularity in places with little history in the sport. But longtime losers like Boston and Chicago have tempered the growth of the game because just like Canadian markets, people want to pay to see wins.

Heck, even the TV numbers for Detroit Red Wings are way down this season -- a definite bad sign when folks from the United States' so-called Hockeytown aren't tuning in.

"They're still winning and they have a lot of exciting young players," Bettman said of Detroit. "There isn't a concern. You can't just take snapshots of situations. You have to look at results in a more drawn-out way."

The departure of personalities such as ex-London Knight Brendan Shanahan and longtime captain Steve Yzerman is surely part of the drop in Wings interest.

But with national TV numbers down compared to last year, there must be concern the momentum coming out of the lockout has been lost.

"The jump we saw last year could've been one of those extraordinary events," Bettman said. "We're completely comfortable with the TV agreement we have. We gave up some distribution in the short term, but right now we have the ability to reach 70 million homes."

Bettman said it's misleading to simply look at TV numbers as a way of judging the league's reach to its fans.

"It's evolving," he said. "When you look at numbers, you also have to look at new media. Our Internet activity is way up. You can't just look at traditional media."

With young stars such as Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby and Washington's Alexander Ovechkin dotting the landscape, there's a growing debate the NHL should scrap its schedule based on regional rivalries and allow all fans at least a once-a-year look at the league's greatest assets.

Bettman, who worked for the NBA when Michael Jordan dominated the game, said the league is simply listening to what a majority of fans want. Though the schedule will always requiring tweaking, he is happy with the current format.

"We're in a situation where a game in October is just as critical as at any other time in the season and that's good for the league," he said.

As hockey boss for nearly 14 years, Bettman says he has always looked out for the best interests of the league.

"If you're asking me the legacy question, I'm not concerned with things like that," he said. "We're just focused on the issues at hand and working together to solve them."

So what if Internet access is up.... TV and attendance pays the bills right? Not Internet revenue - if they have any. They won't let Canada have another team even though it would prosper .... but hockey is going downhill in the US no matter what they do..... that's a poor way to run a business IMO.