Denver Streetcar Plan

[DenverTrans]

http://www.denvergov.org/newsletter.asp?opt=1&issue_id=54&depid=1678

Colfax Streetcar Feasibility Study

Representative Diana DeGette announced that she has secured $1 million for critical transportation and infrastructure projects in the 1st Congressional District as part of the federal transportation funding package passed in early June. $500,000 was allocated to study the feasibility of a street car line on Colfax Avenue in East Denver. The study was requested by local businesses and the City of Denver to address heavy public transportation use and provide an important transportation alternative to the rapidly redeveloping urban corridor.

[bcp]

excellent....hick included $100k in the 2007 denver budget as well.

[bcp]

excellent....hick included $100k in the 2007 denver budget as well.

[J Church]

Beautiful.

[joeindt]

I'd say a woohoo was in order.

[twellsie]

woohoo! :banana:

:whip: hick

[glowrock]

Very interesting, very interesting!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bcp]

i'll just go ahead and say it...

two lines
1 - broadway / 25 north through DT, then right on larimer up to 40th / 40th.
2 - east colfax to speer to Tivoli center

and double track through 5pts so that north metro can be a through line.

[joeindt]

^pure greed.

[bcp]

asking too much? c'mon...the city can do it.

[1Post2]

aw, shucks, denver.

you just keep impressing me with whatever you've got going here. for real.

[joeindt]

I hope so. I really hope they do the double tracking for my own greedy, personal needs.

[glowrock]

Wow joe, that's pretty harsh...

As for a direct connection to the North line, something tells me the North line is probably totally derailed anyhow (see the article from this morning's RMN I posted in the FasTracks thread), so there's probably no need for through connection anyhow... ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Giovoni]

oh come on.. how is the north line derailed just because "several" residents came to hear themselves squawk about it?

[joeindt]

^ ya, they will just be ignored as they should be. They don't have time for this nonsense. Just build something cheap and crappy for the north line.. a big slide or something. :)

[glowrock]

oh come on.. how is the north line derailed just because "several" residents came to hear themselves squawk about it?

Maybe I posted that before I had my morning coffee to make me sane, I dunno... ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bunt_q]

Yeah, I have to think that part of the reason for goingcommuter rail on the north corridor is for future extensions north (to serve stuff east of i-25... the longmont line, even if extended, may be too far west)... and even if Northglenn isn't interested, I am *sure* that developers farther north are. It's not going away...

[blueb73]

once these lines are all in place, will you be able to live in denver car free with minimal hassle?

[Giovoni]

I would say yes.. though depending on where you work there will still be places in between major business districts that are underserved by transit and busses will have to fill the gaps.. which would be fine with me I think.

[joeindt]

once these lines are all in place, will you be able to live in denver car free with minimal hassle?

I thought you were looking in LA? :)

I'm sure it's possible depending on where you live or at least having the convenience of decent transit coverage and frequency to most of the metro area.

[Cirrus]

I have to think that part of the reason for goingcommuter rail on the north corridor is for future extensions north (to serve stuff east of i-25... the longmont line, even if extended, may be too far west)... and even if Northglenn isn't interested, I am *sure* that developers farther north are. It's not going away...Do we even want that to happen? I-25 north is an awful place for a rail line. The nearest cities are miles away.

If running west a few miles to Boulder is such a big deal, then the better solution is the 287 bypass - just run straight south from Longmont until you get to Broomfield rather than cutting west to Boulder.

[blueb73]

I thought you were looking in LA? :)

I'm sure it's possible depending on where you live or at least having the convenience of decent transit coverage and frequency to most of the metro area.


im keeping my options open at the moment. living somewhere car free would be sweet...

[glowrock]

Do we even want that to happen? I-25 north is an awful place for a rail line. The nearest cities are miles away.

If running west a few miles to Boulder is such a big deal, then the better solution is the 287 bypass - just run straight south from Longmont until you get to Broomfield rather than cutting west to Boulder.

I agree, a 287 commuter rail is certainly better than I-25... Eventually, a Hwy. 85 commuter rail between Greeley, Brighton, onto Denver needs to happen as well, along with a connection between Greeley, Loveland, and Fort Collins... ;)

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bcp]

car-free will still be tough...good news is that car-dependent might drop from 80% to 50%?

[bunt_q]

I was talking about the growth north (and east of i-25)... the firsstones, daconos, etc... maybe even to greeley. do we want it?... well, better than a highway, because that growth is coming (no MPO, dozens of little competing towns... too late to put the brakes on front range north)... so do those communities eventually need rail? yeah, maybe. maybe HOV's and park-n-rides on i-25 will do it, that's open to argument

(personally, i think a quasi-brt on i-25 would do just fine for the north, and i would have no problem dumping the rail - but i don't think they will because of the potential to serve the firestones and daconos in the future)

that's entirely separate from the boulder-longmont-fort collins corridor (which i agree should be done over there, on that line, on the west)... all i was saying is that *that* line will be too far west to serve the booming eastern (northern) burbs.

this should be in that other thread!

[SnyderBock]

I am totally impressed with this fastracks plan your city has! I can't believe I haven't heard or read anything about it before this forum. I had know idea anything like this was going on in this country and if I would have guessed which city was doing something like this, I would not have guessed Denver! I would have guessed San Diego, Las Vegas, Houston, Indianapolis, Cleveland, etc,... I would not think it was Denver, that's for sure! I've been reading up on this plan a little. I hope my city will use Denver as a model for it's planning. I read that thread about the north line being in trouble. Then someone said something about a Broadway line. Then I read this thread about a streetcar. I looked at the map and thought, "why don't they kill two birds with one stone." Replace the north line with this:

-A streetcar up Broadway to downtown, then just keep going north up Broadway into the North metro area.

-Take the money saved by doing this instead of commuter rail and also build a streetcar down Colfax.

I would think that both these streetcar lines could be built for the same price as one commuter rail line in the north corridor. This way, you solve your problem with Broadway into downtown, you give the taxpayers in the north something for their money, plus you get the Colfax line done that everyone seems to want bad. What do you guys think of this?
:shrug:

[bcp]

i love it...but all the way to 144 might be a bit much for a streetcar.

[bunt_q]

i love it...but all the way to 144 might be a bit much for a streetcar.

I thought so too, until last night when I was having a drink with an RTD person and there was talk of using a streetcar for the Gold Line. And then, sure enough, there it was in today's newspaper.

[bcp]

man....kinda off topic, but these line-by-line EIS studies coudl get us in trouble down the road.

[navyweaxguy]

Having everything the same price is a good idea. I love that in NYC you get a pass that lets you ride the subway, bus you name it for the same price. They are number of rides or time dependent, not price.

[glowrock]

I thought so too, until last night when I was having a drink with an RTD person and there was talk of using a streetcar for the Gold Line. And then, sure enough, there it was in today's newspaper.

I was about to say, I saw that article in this morning's paper... Quite an interesting idea, I kind of like the idea of running it along 38th, then perhaps a bit north along 52nd, or something like that. It could be interesting... Of course, the Rocky also pushed hard on the railroads to allow RTD to run LRT along their lines, so who knows???

Aaron (Glowrock)

[bunt_q]

You know what else I didn't realize but came out in that discussion I had... and this is no small point. But I guess Cal has committed (it sounded like both politically and, somehow, legally) that money cannot be moved from one corridor to another. So if, hypothetically, the North Corridor went away entirely (and it won't), that money *could not* be transferred to another corridor. Each corridor has to meet its own budget independently.

Not sure how or what that means, but there it is.

[bcp]

mmm...that type of inflexibility could really be bad for the overall system. it might get some mayor's on board (certainly not the Northglenn City Council), but ties Cal's hands.

[tunnelbana]

That kind of inflexibility definately sounds like a political move to make the projects feasible at all, but I agree that is sounds a little dangerous. This may have something to do with outside funding... I can't actually remember the details of where the money is coming from.

I know for example in the US36/Northwest corridor the rail line is being studied separatly from the highway/BRT improvements. From a planning standpoint that seems like a bad move because the two are going to interact significantly as part of the transportation system. However, in order to receive federal funding for a part of it (the rail line, I think), it needs to be analyzed independently.

Fortunately Fasttracks is moving pretty fast, but this can cause problems in cities where the needs change over time, and fund earmarked overa decade ago are no longer really relevant. This can turn into a take it or leave it situation where a city can take money for a project they don't need or get nothing, rather than redirect funds to more pressing needs. I feel like this is definately the case with Pittsburgh light rail extension, but that is a topic for another discussion.

[Eliyah78]

RTD is pretty doubtful about using I-25 as a ROW for light rail. CDOT has their own plans for future lane expansions and a train line alongside the freeway would supposedly require more property acquisitions.

[will_e_777]

RTD is pretty doubtful about using I-25 as a ROW for light rail. CDOT has their own plans for future lane expansions and a train line alongside the freeway would supposedly require more property acquisitions.

You are correct with that. Both the North & West Fastrack Lines are going to be on former railroad ROW. I know the West Line will be along the abandoned Associated Railway line. I don't know though what railroad line went north, but there is one there.

I thought so too, until last night when I was having a drink with an RTD person and there was talk of using a streetcar for the Gold Line. And then, sure enough, there it was in today's newspaper.

I think we are misinterpretting what RTD has said (or it could just be me :P ). Having light rail that runs on the street and that is an individual lane is different than having streetcar service. While the type of service may essentially be the same thing. I have always seen it this way: Light rail would have its own dedicated lane (California or Stout streets downtown). While streetcar service would share a lane with traffic (Lincoln or Broadway when the HOV lane is not used). From what I have always read about the west line, it would be the former not the latter.

[bunt_q]

No, no misinterpretation at all... granted, this thread is old now, but the talk absolutely was of a streetcar, not just LRT in the street ROW. And we were talking about the Gold Line, not the West Line.

[Eliyah78]

Really I cannot see a streetcar happening on the Gold Line. But then again I could.

The East Corridor team chose the streetcar plan over a D-Line extention to 40th Street / 40th Avenue. Kind of hard for me to agree. While the streetcar may be cute and more cost effecient it is not rapid transit. A car would see better travel times, especially at rush hour.

Interlining the Gold line route with East Corridor "Air Train" would by far be a better idea.

Just my thoughts.

[dktshb]

Really I cannot see a streetcar happening on the Gold Line. But then again I could.

The East Corridor team chose the streetcar plan over a D-Line extention to 40th Street / 40th Avenue. Kind of hard for me to agree. While the streetcar may be cute and more cost effecient it is not rapid transit. A car would see better travel times, especially at rush hour.

Interlining the Gold line route with East Corridor "Air Train" would by far be a better idea.

Just my thoughts.

The whole idea of a streetcar isn't as much to get people to and from work as it is to enhance the neiborhoods they serve. To walk out of your home and onto a streetcar to your favorite coffee shop, restaurant, bookstore etc. is my idea of the perfect use for a streetcar. Wherever the city puts it, I hope that's what they have in mind rather than rapid transit...that's what your lightrail is for.

[Eliyah78]

The whole idea of a streetcar isn't as much to get people to and from work as it is to enhance the neiborhoods they serve. To walk out of your home and onto a streetcar to your favorite coffee shop, restaurant, bookstore etc. is my idea of the perfect use for a streetcar. Wherever the city puts it, I hope that's what they have in mind rather than rapid transit...that's what your lightrail is for.

DUS to Ward Road is more than a short neighborhood trip. The FASTRACKS concept is to encourage the use of public transit among those who travel lengthy distances. True, Denver is not pedestrian or bicyclist friendly but that is due to our car dependant lifestyle. The FASTRACKS project is aimed at removing that aspect from our culture.

If you look at other large cities (supposedly air friendly ones like Portland and San Francisco) with a street car grid you tend to see a higher rate in automobile ownership. (right now San Francisco averages two automobiles per household). Contrast that with places on the eastern seaboard and the picture changes.

First let's implement a regional system and then work on adding low passenger multi-modal feeder lines.

[J Church]

(right now San Francisco averages two automobiles per household)

That's not true. I don't know the average but it's only around 70 percent of households with autos.

Also not sure what you're getting at with that point; in addition to streetcars, S.F. has modern light rail, heavy rail, etc.

[Eliyah78]

(right now San Francisco averages two automobiles per household)

That's not true. I don't know the average but it's only around 70 percent of households with autos.

Also not sure what you're getting at with that point; in addition to streetcars, S.F. has modern light rail, heavy rail, etc.

My point being that metros carry a heavier ridership than streetcars. That's all. Why not use the existing railyard ROW and interline the Gold Line commuter rail with East Corridor Air Train?

[glowrock]

DUS to Ward Road is more than a short neighborhood trip. The FASTRACKS concept is to encourage the use of public transit among those who travel lengthy distances. True, Denver is not pedestrian or bicyclist friendly but that is due to our car dependant lifestyle. The FASTRACKS project is aimed at removing that aspect from our culture.

If you look at other large cities (supposedly air friendly ones like Portland and San Francisco) with a street car grid you tend to see a higher rate in automobile ownership. (right now San Francisco averages two automobiles per household). Contrast that with places on the eastern seaboard and the picture changes.

First let's implement a regional system and then work on adding low passenger multi-modal feeder lines.

Since when is Denver NOT bicyclist or pedestrian friendly? Are you talking about the WHOLE city, or the central CORE city??

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Eliyah78]

Since when is Denver NOT bicyclist or pedestrian friendly? Are you talking about the WHOLE city, or the central CORE city??

Aaron (Glowrock)

Hi Aaron.

I am speaking primarily about the metropolitan area but the city and county as well. Last year Denver even scored pretty high on a list of cities with the highest frequency of pedestrian road fatalaties in the US.

All it takes is a second observation at our city planning codes (which thank goodness are slowly beginning to change) and a person will be able to see why many Denver families dont abandon their vehicles. Excessive speed limits, low curb heights, high occupancy roadways, etc.

I do agree that most of the city core, like Boulder, is much more hospital towards bicyclist and pedestrians than the other areas however. Too bad the rest of the metro area is not that way.

-Eliyah

[J Church]

My point being that metros carry a heavier ridership than streetcars. That's all. Why not use the existing railyard ROW and interline the Gold Line commuter rail with East Corridor Air Train?

Can't remember if it was in this thread (I could go back and look, but ...), but I've argued the same thing--Ward Road is too far for streetcars. Olde Town is too far. I just think they have their place in the network. You'll find streetcars in cities much larger than Denver all over the world. Should urban transit be a higher priority than regional? That ship has sailed, so to speak. But I do support the Colfax streetcar effort and I'd eventually like to see some other lines as well, including North Denver.

As for the ped-friendliness of most of metro Denver, I'd have to agree with you there.

[bunt_q]

Why not use the existing railyard ROW and interline the Gold Line commuter rail with East Corridor Air Train?


You're a little behind on the news (and the whole point of this thread)... the whole reason we are considering streetcars in the first place is because of problems with the freight railroads... if those problems did not exist, there would be no question - we would have commuter rail in the railroad ROW.

[5280]

Not sure what the most appropriate means to accomplish this would be, but I always dream about how great it would be to have some sort of streetcar, shuttle system for just Colorado Blvd. It could originate near the light rail station at Colorado/I-25, and go up and down Colorado Blvd., eventually connecting with a future light-rail station near I-70 or closer in near City Park.

Stops on this route could connect all the retailers like Best Buy, Wild Oats, Target, and B+N, all the restaurants up and down that way, several hotels, Cherry Creek, Colfax Ave., City Park, the Zoo, the Museum, City Park golf course, etc.

Pipedream of course, but interesting.

[Eliyah78]

You're a little behind on the news (and the whole point of this thread)... the whole reason we are considering streetcars in the first place is because of problems with the freight railroads... if those problems did not exist, there would be no question - we would have commuter rail in the railroad ROW.

Well the latest issue of Gold Line Times (just delivered via postal mail last week) still includes heavy rail as an alternative. Of course lightrail was ruled out eons ago due to it's lack of compliance.

Going to the February meetings anyone?

[Eliyah78]

Can't remember if it was in this thread (I could go back and look, but ...), but I've argued the same thing--Ward Road is too far for streetcars. Olde Town is too far. I just think they have their place in the network. You'll find streetcars in cities much larger than Denver all over the world. Should urban transit be a higher priority than regional? That ship has sailed, so to speak. But I do support the Colfax streetcar effort and I'd eventually like to see some other lines as well, including North Denver.

As for the ped-friendliness of most of metro Denver, I'd have to agree with you there.


Hi J.

A streetcar system would be a great addition to Denver's current and soon-to-be transportation infrastructure. I am not totally opposed to the idea but would like to see some more improvments to our regional system first. Here's one of a few reasons why;

The latest ridership numbers (2004) for Portland's 6 mile loop show a weekday average of 6900 boardings. That is far behind Denver's central corridor average of 16300 back in 1998 before the southwest extension was in operation (5.3 miles total). This is one of many obervations that can suggest a favorability towards lightrail among prospective riders with a tight schedule.

San Francisco can speak many volumes about their success with public transportation. In my prior postings I made a reference to automobile ownership in the bay area and mistakely didnt point out that the study included outlying areas such as Napa, San Mateo, San Jose, etc. That was just a part of my case; when sprawling areas are left out of the picture automotive dependencies tend to persist. It is a real shame that the BART line, Cal Train, and MUNI street car dont have the popularity for implimentation in the suburban areas of SF.

I have nothing against San Fran, I was just pointing out how the cable cars (aside from MUNI which runs largely on a private ROW) have a low ridership among suburban commuters. The streetcar that RTD has in mind for the central and Gold Line corridors is just that; a tram with no public right-of-way, a tram subjected to rush hour street congestion.

[J Church]

Sorry, Eliyah, that's not a serious comparison. It ignores land-use patterns, connecting transit (e.g. several hundred buses a day dumping riders at I-25 & Broadway), and esp. capital costs--let's not forget that the Portland Streetcar cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $20M/mi to build. Vehicles are cheaper, too--and smaller, but that's the point: Streetcars are appropriate where you don't need the capacity of LRVs, and where less intrusive vehicles in mixed flow are a better fit.

Anyway we seem to more or less agree--they're different tools for different jobs. As someone pointed out, streetcars are simply better suited for local travel in urban contexts. And as such, they're not so much a tool for mobility as for the creation of places.

FYI: San Francisco F-Market does 4,000 riders per mile, about half in shared ROW.

[Eliyah78]

Sorry, Eliyah, that's not a serious comparison. It ignores land-use patterns, connecting transit (e.g. several hundred buses a day dumping riders at I-25 & Broadway), and esp. capital costs--let's not forget that the Portland Streetcar cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $20M/mi to build. Vehicles are cheaper, too--and smaller, but that's the point: Streetcars are appropriate where you don't need the capacity of LRVs, and where less intrusive vehicles in mixed flow are a better fit.

Anyway we seem to more or less agree--they're different tools for different jobs. As someone pointed out, streetcars are simply better suited for local travel in urban contexts. And as such, they're not so much a tool for mobility as for the creation of places.

FYI: San Francisco F-Market does 4,000 riders per mile, about half in shared ROW.

I know there are a few circumstances that bring about some variables between the two systems but I also cannot find a comprehensive study that
disproves the conclusion or calls it into question. Trimet like RTD has a good feeder system to both the MAX and streetcar lines.

About F-Market, doesnt that use a multi-car consist like your standard lightrail?

[DenverTrans]

Personally, I think streetcar and light rail are the wrong labels for Colorado Blvd., Colfax, Downing, etc.

Why?

Based on my experience in Philadelphia, a true streetcar (or trolley, locally) is just one step above a bus. Without a dedicated right of way or larger capacity, you don't get a huge benefit. The streetcar is much nicer than a bus, but its performance is not that different in terms of speed, capacity, etc.

Light rail in the Denver context has come to mean grade separated large three-car trains.

So I suggest thinking of a tramway (the original name for transit in Denver). The tramway would be a little bit light rail and a little bit streetcar. Longer vehicles than Portland. Dedicated lanes where possible. Nicer stations where possible. And possibly operations as trains...

This would allow for higher capacity than buses, faster operation than buses, and, of course, all the comforts that come with rail.

I could post pictures from European examples...

[Eliyah78]

The streetcar that RTD has in mind for the central and Gold Line corridors is just that; a tram with no public right-of-way, a tram subjected to rush hour street congestion.

I actually meant to type "with no private right-of-way".

[Eliyah78]

Personally, I think streetcar and light rail are the wrong labels for Colorado Blvd., Colfax, Downing, etc.

Why?

Based on my experience in Philadelphia, a true streetcar (or trolley, locally) is just one step above a bus. Without a dedicated right of way or larger capacity, you don't get a huge benefit. The streetcar is much nicer than a bus, but its performance is not that different in terms of speed, capacity, etc.

Light rail in the Denver context has come to mean grade separated large three-car trains.

So I suggest thinking of a tramway (the original name for transit in Denver). The tramway would be a little bit light rail and a little bit streetcar. Longer vehicles than Portland. Dedicated lanes where possible. Nicer stations where possible. And possibly operations as trains...

This would allow for higher capacity than buses, faster operation than buses, and, of course, all the comforts that come with rail.

I could post pictures from European examples...

I feel the same.

What is even worse is that a bus can avoid a traffic collision blocking the shared lane by going around while a streetcar would lack the mobility to do so.

On 38th Avenue and probably any other four-lane street a tram style vehicle would be treated similar to bus- every motorist would impatiently want to pass and go in front leaving the streetcar in back of the line.

[SLC Projects]

Streetcars are the way to go. SLC is talking about having some of them built also. Sounds like a good plan. :tup:

[CoVol]

Why Denver needs streetcars -- now!

Friday, November 30, 2007
Denver Business Journal (http://denver.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2007/12/03/editorial2.html?page=2)
by Anna Jones

As a resident of Denver's Congress Park neighborhood, I can't help but wish our multibillion-dollar investment in FasTracks included a plan to connect Denver's urban neighborhoods with each other and the downtown core.

It seems ironic that one of the country's largest investments in public transportation serves primarily suburban communities and relies heavily on cars.

To better understand how cities around the country are addressing transportation connections in urban neighborhoods, I attended a day-long conference titled "Street Smart: Streetcars and Cities in the 21st Century." Reconnecting America, a nonprofit group, organized the conference, and it was one of four held nationally to tout the virtues of streetcars.

As I listened to speakers remind us of the many miles (200-plus miles in Denver) of streetcar track that once crisscrossed every sizable city in the country, I found myself musing at the transition of our collective view toward urban life and the recurring "back to the future" theme.

As we strive to re-create an integrated public transportation system, it's hard not to lament the series of bad decisions that took us away from streetcars and down the path of auto-oriented urban renewal.

Hopefully, we have come full circle -- that is, if we in Denver find the success stories told by streetcar advocates from Portland; San Francisco; Little Rock, Ark.; Sacramento, Calif.; and other cities compelling. We should, and here's why:

Stronger sustainable communities
One of the main points of the conference centered around the notion that streetcars are much more than a form of public transportation; they're a catalyst that builds strong urban communities. Because fixed rail lines are just that -- "fixed" -- streetcar lines create a confidence based upon their presumed longevity that spans many urban sectors: residents, workers, visitors, investors and developers.

Streetcars encourage higher-density development, which in turn supports compact, walkable, high-density, sustainable environments. Developers presenting their case studies at the conference asserted they're willing to take greater investment risks near streetcar lines because they're often rewarded with higher densities and lower parking requirements.

In Denver, streetcar lines could make sense along the Colfax, Broadway or Welton corridors, as an 18th/19th Street circulator, along Larimer connecting Auraria with downtown or perhaps a Cherry Creek/downtown connection.

Portland as an inspiration
The Portland Streetcar was the first modern streetcar system built in the United States when it opened in 2001. According to a recent study, by 2005, the Portland Streetcar had engendered so much development -- about 100 projects worth $2.3 billion -- and such a high-quality urban environment that it stimulated tremendous interest in streetcars across the country.

The Portland streetcar system is a case study in the creative leveraging of local, state and federal resources to link transportation investments and development. The nonprofit group Portland Streetcar Inc. designed, managed and operates the Portland streetcar system. Its board is made up of citizens and property and business owners along the alignment, as well as public-sector representatives.

Broad stakeholder input was critical in marketing streetcars to a diverse constituency and in encouraging private-sector financial participation through the Local Improvement District (LID) that helped fund the initial line. The lesson from Portland, Seattle and even Kenosha, Wis., is clear: finance creatively and use a variety of financing tools to leverage public and private resources.

Behind the curve in Denver
I left the conference a full-fledged enthusiast. The notion of streetcars in Denver makes so much sense on so many levels -- as a sustainable technology that can leverage our significant investment in FasTracks to make the critical local connection, reinforce the goals of Greenprint Denver, attract quality urban development along our many underutilized urban corridors and re-create a pragmatic, appealing, utilitarian public transportation system in the city for the first time since World War II.

Unfortunately, the inspiration served up by some of the case studies was somewhat muted for the locals in the audience. In his opening comments, Mayor John Hickenlooper enumerated his doubts about streetcars and their application in Denver partly because we have already made a significant investment in buses, concern that streetcars are "novel" and that the "cost per rider" needs to be considered in any public-transportation conversation. While the mayor's comments warrant further discussion, we should not allow them to be the last word.

The effort to initiate streetcars needs to be the result of a communitywide conversation, and financing can very much be a public/private collaboration.

The recent accomplishments establishing a vision and strategy for moving Denver into the future -- including the Downtown Denver Area Plan and Main Street Zoning -- have happened largely because the private sector insisted on it. The private sector needs to take the lead in initiating this discussion -- and the time to act is now.

Anna Jones, senior associate with Progressive Urban Management Associates, a Denver-based consulting firm that specializes in downtown and community development, can be reached at 303-628-5558 or pumajones@ix.netcom.com.

[Paulopolis]

^ I'm kind of surprised to hear that coming out of Hickenlooper. Of course, he is a politician now so maybe he's just hedging.

[alexjon]

I don't see why people are so against streetcars-- they work.

Portland really is a good example-- it spurs development, it encourages residential growth in the central city, and it creates massive nodes of development, like the Urban Studies building area on the campus of Portland State University, which is a school building with a streetcar running THROUGH it.

[bcp]

^ but people in denver will cry "why hasnt it fixed 5-points".....which it hasnt, but there are larger issues at play along that corridor.

[PlanIt]

^ An easy argument to rebut. The D line through 5 points is really just a spur, not a serious transportation corridor. Few people will ride the lightrail somewhere they wouldn't otherwise go unless there is a reason to, i.e. shops, theaters, etc. Lines where development fills in are already busy with commuters. The customer base is already there where as it isn't in 5 points. When/if the D line is connected through to the system, I suspect we'll see a resurgence in the area.

[bcp]

^ totally agree....but the D line is being demoted to stpping at 20th street soon, and 'plans' are to run streetcar from 20th to welton to 40th....

sure would be a much better system if they left D as is and double-tracked it up to 40/40 and beyond.....

this is an age old issue...at some of the community meetings people cried about losing 'historic' buildings along downing street (on the way to 40th)...i drove by intentionally the other day to see these houses...WHAT a joke...not a single historically designated structure and nothing of contributing value.

[DownhomeDenver]

BCP I certainly wasn't one of them. There is a great LACK of historic contributing factors on that entire stretch.

[SnyderBock]

I don't have a problem with them demoting it to a modern streetcar line (single light rail vehicle), as long as they extended it down to at least Civic Center Station and preferably all the way to I-25/Broadway Station.