[NYguy]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/12/04/chinas-skyscraper-boom-buoys-global-industry/

China's skyscraper boom buoys global industry

December 04, 2010
Associated Press


The 121-story Shanghai Tower is more than China's next record-setting building: It's an economic lifeline for the elite club of skyscraper builders.

Financial gloom has derailed plans for new towers in Chicago, Moscow, Dubai and other cities. But in China, work on the 2,074-foot (632-meter) Shanghai Tower, due to be completed in 2014, and dozens of other tall buildings is rushing ahead, powered by a buoyant economy and providing a steady stream of work to architects and engineers.

The U.S. high-rise market is "pretty much dead," said Dan Winey, a managing director for Gensler, the Shanghai Tower's San Francisco-based architects. "For us, China in the next 10 to 15 years is going to be a huge market."

China has six of the world's 15 tallest buildings — compared with three in the United States, the skyscraper's birthplace — and is constructing more at a furious pace, defying worries about a possible real estate boom and bust. It is on track to pass the U.S. as the country with the most buildings among the 100 tallest by a wide margin.

"There are cities in China that most Western people have never heard of that have bigger populations and more tall buildings than half the prominent cities in the U.S.," said Antony Wood, executive director of the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago.

China is leading a wave of skyscraper building in developing countries that is shifting the field's center of gravity away from the United States and Europe.

India, Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Indonesia have ultra-tall towers under construction or on the drawing board. In the Gulf, Doha in Qatar and Dubai — site of the current record holder, the 163-story Burj Khalifa — each has three buildings among the 20 tallest under construction, though work on all but one of those has been suspended.

The shift is so drastic that North America's share of the 100 tallest buildings will fall from 80 percent in 1990 to just 18 percent by 2012, according to Wood. He said by then, 45 of the tallest will be in Asia, with 34 of those in China alone.

"So 34 percent of the 100 tallest buildings will be in a single country. That has only happened once before, and that was with the USA," he said.

In China, skyscrapers are going up in obscure locales such as Wenzhou, Wuhan and Jiangyin, a boomtown north of Shanghai. It is building a 72-story, 1,076-foot (328-meter) hotel-and-apartment tower that will be taller than Manhattan's Chrysler Building.

China's edifice complex is driven by a mix of demand for space in a crowded country with economic growth forecast at 10 percent this year and local leaders who want architectural eye candy to promote their cities as commercial centers.

Dozens of midsize Chinese cities are building new business districts to replace cramped downtowns. They look to the model of Shanghai's skyscraper-packed Pudong district — China's Wall Street — created in the 1990s on reclaimed industrial land.

"Governments are encouraging these iconic buildings in order to give a very clear message to the outside world: Please pay attention to our city," said Dennis Poon, managing principal of Thornton Tomasetti, the Shanghai Tower's structural engineers. The New York-based firm also is working on the 115-story Ping An International Finance Center in Shenzhen, near Hong Kong, and other Chinese projects.

China has four of the 10 tallest buildings under construction, versus two for the United States — and work on one of those, the 2,000-foot (610-meter) Chicago Spire, has stopped.

The Shanghai Tower will be China's tallest office tower, surpassing the neighboring Shanghai World Financial Center in Pudong. The 2-year-old WFC passed the Jinmao Tower, also in Pudong, for the title.

China accounts for 65 percent of Gensler's worldwide revenues from projects that involve buildings 35 to 40 stories and above, according to Winey.

The firm is working on some 50 projects in China that total 80 million square feet (8 million square meters), the equivalent of San Francisco's entire stock of commercial office space, he said. China revenues are rising by 30 to 35 percent a year and its staff of 140 people in offices in Beijing and Shanghai should expand to 500 in the next seven years.

The boom has drawn a Who's Who of star architects and given Chinese firms their first shot at designing a skyscraper.

Shenzhen's Ping An tower was designed by Kohn Pedersen Fox; the New York firm's other projects include the 116-story East Tower of the Chow Tai Fook Center in Guangzhou, also near Hong Kong. Chicago-based Skidmore Owings & Merrill designed Beijing's tallest building, the 75-story China World Tower III, and the 76-story Tianjin World Financial Center in Tianjin east of Beijing, due to be completed next year. Jiangyin's Hanging Village of Huaxi was designed by China's A+E Design.

Tianjin, a port and oil-refining center with ambitions to be a finance and tech hub, is building four towers of at least 75 stories. One of them, the Goldin Finance 117, will be 117 stories and nearly 2,000 feet (600 meters) tall.

Instead of Western-style single-use office or apartment towers, many developers diversify their revenue sources by making buildings a mix of hotel and office space, with a shopping mall in the base and luxury apartments at the top.

The new space is hitting the market just as Beijing tries to cool a boom in construction of luxury housing and shopping malls. Regulators warn that a supply glut could leave lenders with unpaid loans if developers default.

But demand for high-end office space is so strong that the skyscraper market should face no such problems, said Danny Ma, director of China research for real estate consulting firm CB Richard Ellis. He said the new buildings should fill up quickly because many are the first in their cities to offer high-quality facilities required by foreign and major Chinese companies that are expanding there.

"More and more tenants are keen to move to such buildings," Ma said. He said developers are signing up tenants in advance for 50 to 60 percent of the space in new projects, enough in many cases to make them profitable.

China is helping to propel development of skyscraper design and urban planning as developers face government pressure to make buildings environmentally friendly and integrate them into busy cities.

The Shanghai Tower will have a double-layer glass exterior to insulate it and cut heating and cooling costs, an advanced feature that might be rejected as too costly in the U.S. or other Western markets, Winey said.

"You can do a lot more experimentation here," he said. "It's an amazing place to be, because you can do things here that you can't do anywhere else in the world."

[RobertWalpole]

I can't wait to visit Shanghai.

[NYC4Life]

Article seems a little misleading regarding Dubai. The emirate is still building many skyscrapers despite its economic debt.

[hunser]

china must be candyland for skyscraper fans. :slob:

[JDRCRASH]

china must be candyland for skyscraper fans. :slob:

Seriously, things have simply died here.

[Onn]

China has a massive bubble in it's market however, it's likely you won't see any new major developments for 10-15 years starting soon. Whoever wrote the article is out of touch with reality, sometimes called stupid. There is massive oversupply in every branch of the real estate market and prices are through the roof. In fact I wouldn't be surpised if the Shanghai Tower is delayed or even never built.

[DigitalNinja]

Onn, I'd have to disagree with you, from my experience in China the whole country is not setting itself up for a property bubble.
The reason for this is the sheer amount of people in China. If 5% of the population is well off, that is stil like 53 million people. Most of the stories that comment about this looming are looking only at a few select cities when infact there are many cities where property is affordable for much of the population.
This tower will be built, they are already a good way above ground. If Chinese construction speed is any sign then this building will be topped out in no time :P

[Onn]

Onn, I'd have to disagree with you, from my experience in China the whole country is not setting itself up for a property bubble.
The reason for this is the sheer amount of people in China. If 5% of the population is well off, that is stil like 53 million people. Most of the stories that comment about this looming are looking only at a few select cities when infact there are many cities where property is affordable for much of the population.

China is experiencing Dubai like growth on steroids, use your brain. There was a property bubble in the market even before the great recession, the Chinese government just supercharged it. Even when the US went through this sort of growth in the 1920s it ended in the Great Depression.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/238912-how-big-is-the-chinese-property-bubble

[STR]

Yep. The harder you party, the worse the hangover. Moderate the boom, you mitigate the bust.

Not that any of that would stop this building. It's too far along.

[The Chemist]

Yep. The harder you party, the worse the hangover. Moderate the boom, you mitigate the bust.

Not that any of that would stop this building. It's too far along.

Which is precisely what the government is doing. Lending regulations here are FAR tighter than they are in any western country, interest rates are higher, and you have to put a LOT more money down in order to qualify for a mortgage. This plus government backed banks = far less likelihood of necessity of bank bailouts, which is really what killed the economy in most places.

The ever-tightening regulations on money lending and property buying seem to be working, considering that the growth in the average price of residential properties in Shanghai has basically stopped all throughout 2010.

[DigitalNinja]

China is experiencing Dubai like growth on steroids, use your brain. There was a property bubble in the market even before the great recession, the Chinese government just supercharged it. Even when the US went through this sort of growth in the 1920s it ended in the Great Depression.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/238912-how-big-is-the-chinese-property-bubble

Dubai did not have the population that China does, Dubai built homes for 5 million people when it only had a population of 3 million.

This is not a thread for comparing Dubai to Shanghai or China. They are two different economies and political systems you cannot rely on the past for the future, what ever happens happens, but this is a great development and it will be topped out.

[muppet]

China has 350-400 million people set to move to the cities within the next decade, the largest migration of humans in history - the market is definitely needed. However it always needs to be steadied and cooled (which it seems to be doing).

[giallo]

Not much progress since the last shot, but it's probably not going to get any clearer than this until the spring.


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5237850925_8fbb305742_b.jpg

[MolsonExport]

China is experiencing Dubai like growth on steroids, use your brain. There was a property bubble in the market even before the great recession, the Chinese government just supercharged it. Even when the US went through this sort of growth in the 1920s it ended in the Great Depression.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/238912-how-big-is-the-chinese-property-bubble

Use your sense of context. What is your expertise in demography?

[Lecom]

China has a massive bubble in it's market however, it's likely you won't see any new major developments for 10-15 years starting soon. Whoever wrote the article is out of touch with reality, sometimes called stupid. There is massive oversupply in every branch of the real estate market and prices are through the roof. In fact I wouldn't be surpised if the Shanghai Tower is delayed or even never built.

People were saying the same things about SWFC across the street when it was put on a long hold. In fact, I seriously doubted that the building would ever get built while it was on hold.

[Spocket]

China is experiencing Dubai like growth on steroids, use your brain. There was a property bubble in the market even before the great recession, the Chinese government just supercharged it. Even when the US went through this sort of growth in the 1920s it ended in the Great Depression.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/238912-how-big-is-the-chinese-property-bubble

Sorry to burst your bubble but there are some very great differences between China and Dubai .
In China it's all market-driven as opposed to a "if you build it , they will come" experiment .
Is there a property bubble ? Yes and no . The demand is there but the problem is speculation which the government here has , in fact , acted to curb .
The market is also different . Many people here don't get cash from the bank to buy their home . They borrow the cash from family and buy the property outright . Without nearly as much bank involvement , both they and their customers are at a much reduced risk should a property bubble burst . Basically the regulations act in conjunction with what boils down to culture to keep the market from over-heating too much .

As for supertalls , that's a different story again . In that case we're talking about a market that is decades from any sort of saturation level . Sure , we'll get a lot of stale proposals and half-finished hulks but it's not because the market won't occupy those buildings and help them to turn a profit . It's just a matter of financing . You can build virtually anything here and turn a profit as far as property development is concerned .

[Onn]

Sorry to burst your bubble but there are some very great differences between China and Dubai .

I meant the scale of projects, projects so large that there is no way they will ever make money off the stuff when the population isn't rich enough to support it. That should be pretty obvious....you know when something is too good to be true?

[BStyles]

Some close ups of street-level works from November 11th by Cool_Wind from liftok.com, posted over on Skyscrapercity:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/9417/1812432476289a2b3384.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3305/18124bf4f6551370b456.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2738/18124ed071ec2af0e5ed.jpg

And also some quite detailed technical plans:

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/630/001fav.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3287/002glh.jpg

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9388/003ie0.jpg

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7450/004oy.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1427/005iw.jpg

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/3386/006ln.jpg

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7231/007li.jpg

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7277/1811852a470d2e2db24.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/4328/1811b6b8f7d80b4bea6.jpg

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6263/l001k.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1851/l002t.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4338/l003.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2262/l004.jpg

[Northwest]

LOVE to see the engineering prints! :tup:

Thanks!

[Spud]

Yes, thank you for the plans. Very interesting. :cheers:

[Biff]

Wow, that building is going to be massive. It is amazing how large the core is and when you see the plans you really get an idea of the circumference of this structure.

Very impressive.

[NYguy]

http://shanghai.urbanatomy.com/index.php/i-ahearts-shanghai/features/4474-the-master-builder

The Master Builder

http://shanghai.urbanatomy.com/images/stories/Article-image201012/shanghai-tower-drawing.png

09 December 2010
Written by JFK Miller

When completed in 2014, Shanghai Tower in Pudong will be China’s tallest building and the second-tallest building in the world after the Burj Dubai. The super-building will dwarf its two neighbors – the Jinmao Tower and SWFC – as it will the Taipei 101, currently the tallest structure in the Far East.

The building will define Shanghai just as the Empire State Building did for New York in its time. The finished tower will complete a government master plan that goes back 20 years to have a set of three super-buildings in the city’s finance and trade zone. It is unlikely that we will see taller than this in Shanghai in our lifetime, at least not in Lujiazui.

The man who designed it, Marshall Strabala, is a rare breed of architect. The 49-year-old American occupies a modern pantheon comprising the likes of Renzo Piano and Lord Norman Foster – architects whose iconic buildings are redefining the world’s cityscapes of the 21st century. If you narrow the field to those architects who have designed super high-rises – over 70 stories or more – then you’re talking about only a handful of people. Between them, Strabala, his former SOM colleague and mentor Adrian Smith and Argentine-American César Pelli have designed the top 10 tallest buildings in the world which have either been constructed or are presently under construction.

Strabala himself has worked on three of them: Shanghai Tower, the Burj Dubai – which at 828 meters is the tallest man-made structure ever built – and the Greenland Square Zifeng Tower in Nanjing, the world’s seventh-tallest building, completed in May this year. On the Burj and Zifeng Tower, Strabala was studio head working under the supervision of Smith, who is credited as the designer of both projects.

“Super high-rise buildings are so special that there are really only a few people who have done them,” says Strabala. “Every architect in the world thinks they can do super tall buildings. The idea of them is easy to come up with. The execution is what separates the men from the boys. I remember Stan Korista at SOM [where Strabala worked for 19 years] saying, ‘You can’t do one of these buildings until you’ve already done one of them because they are so different, so challenging.’ Most architects know everything about a five- or a 10-story building. A 40-story building is marginally different. But once you start getting above 70 stories everything starts to change radically. It is sort of like a doctor who does brain surgery and a doctor who does heart surgery. They’re both doctors, but you really don’t want the heart surgeon working on someone’s brain. You want someone who’s been in there a dozen times working on that grey matter. Even though the heart surgeon understands everything about surgery he’s just not done surgery of the cranium. Architecture is the same sort of thing.”

Strabala was brought into the project in 2006 by Gensler, who appointed him Director of Design after poaching him from SOM before the Shanghai Tower bidding process began. The bid was one of the most coveted in world architecture – all of the 10 or so major international firms were invited to compete as were the top local firms, with the final selection coming down to a choice between SOM, Foster and Gensler, a firm with an excellent reputation for interior design, but not well known for its architecture.

Gensler capitalized on Strabala’s portfolio with the Burj Dubai and the Nanjing Zifeng Tower, for which he had just completed the construction documents, to win the bid and lead the project. Tongji University was selected as Gensler’s local partner and architect of record. As the third and most significant building of the Lujiazui troika, Shanghai Tower would have to complement the two existing buildings.

“We always called it ‘the three brothers’; it was always a composition of three, and we never showed the expert judging panel our building alone, we always showed it in the group. You had the building of the past, the building of the present, the building of the future. The Jin Mao is China of the past, the famous steel pagoda, it references history. The SWFC is the building of the present, that is, the China that accepts foreign investment. Shanghai Tower is a building of the future, a very dynamic form.”

That dynamic form comprises two key components: a glass ‘double skin’ and a vertical twist of 120 degrees.

Rest here...
http://shanghai.urbanatomy.com/index.php/i-ahearts-shanghai/features/4474-the-master-builder

[polishavenger]

Its amazing how inefficient a building like this is with regards to usable floor space vs structural/mechanical space. It looks like almost 50% usable office space to 50% non revenue generating space. The rents in a place like that must be huge, or the construction costs extremely cheap/subsidized. Anybody know what rents go for in this building?

[Onn]

Its amazing how inefficient a building like this is with regards to usable floor space vs structural/mechanical space. It looks like almost 50% usable office space to 50% non revenue generating space. The rents in a place like that must be huge, or the construction costs extremely cheap/subsidized. Anybody know what rents go for in this building?

I doubt the builders have any attention of making money on it, especially if it's being funded by the government. It's jobs and a piece to the skyline, not a piece of real estate. Hardly could China's economy be considered free market, the balance sheets in a project like this have little importance.

"The building will define Shanghai just as the Empire State Building did for New York in its time."

I'm skeptical if anyone will remember it exists in 20 years.

[giallo]

^Well, before even being skeptical, let the building at least be built. I'm mean, how could you possible be skeptical about the impact this building will have within Shanghai when it's barely above ground?
Reading your posts, it seems like you've made your mind up about this building and Shanghai in general. With that bias, I'm skeptical even if this building turns out to be outstanding that you'll give it fair due.

[Onn]

^Well, before even being skeptical, let the building at least be built. I'm mean, how could you possible be skeptical about the impact this building will have within Shanghai when it's barely above ground?
Reading your posts, it seems like you've made your mind up about this building and Shanghai in general. With that bias, I'm skeptical even if this building turns out to be outstanding that you'll give it fair due.

Well honestly, you can't possibly claim it's going to be the Empire State Building of Shanghai either...can you? If the writer of the article can make some stupid statement I should be able to say the opposite. Although I do have good reason to believe...to a point. I really don't think it’s going to be the Empire State Building of China. A very tall 2000ft+ twisting building in the heart of Shanghai, yeah, probably.

[hunser]

:previous: the jin mao tower is shanghai's esb, at least for me.

cool render by iamnofire2/moyan808:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5283/5248033803_2b74763199_b.jpg

[NYguy]

:previous: the jin mao tower is shanghai's esb, at least for me.

I think this is a beautiful tower, but the Jin Mao will always be my favorite of the three.

“We always called it ‘the three brothers’; it was always a composition of three, and we never showed the expert judging panel our building alone, we always showed it in the group.

[Troubadour]

the jin mao tower is shanghai's esb, at least for me.

Good call. I'm more of a WFC person myself - it has simple, confident grandeur of the type our old WTC towers displayed - but Jin Mao is definitely more attuned to the soul of China in all its complexity. Shanghai Tower is too amorphous, too abstract to become iconic - its size is remarkable, but nothing else about it elicits any kind of particular thought or feeling. My prediction is that it will seem boring once it's finished and the engineering going into it is no longer on display.

[meh_cd]

I will jump in with those saying that Jin Mao is Shanghai's Empire State Building. It's a classic, and it is the little details that make the building.

I liked SWFC until it was finished. I was left with a sense of "that is it?" Likewise with ICC in Hong Kong. I ended up liking the IFC better overall.

I would agree with someone if they said that the SWFC was like the WTC and Shanghai Tower more like the Burj Dubai.

[kiwi4life]

gotta be one of the best towers after this thing is done

[Pizzuti]

I doubt the builders have any attention of making money on it, especially if it's being funded by the government. It's jobs and a piece to the skyline, not a piece of real estate. Hardly could China's economy be considered free market, the balance sheets in a project like this have little importance.



I'm skeptical if anyone will remember it exists in 20 years.

I don't think it's quite the Empire State Building just because China is producing SO MANY gigantic towers, and the ESB was world's tallest for almost half a century.

Still, the only way people forget this building exists is if supertalls become commonplace and if this building is dwarfed by some future nearby projects. That is feasible, but it would mean it's also happening to all the other supertalls we are commenting on anywhere on these forums so it's kind of a moot point if you're making the comment specific to this one. There are lots of manmade structures with very little floor space that get plenty of attention. You don't have to actually live or work in a building to be aware of it and consider it notable - how many people have been inside the Washington Memorial, the Saint Louis Arch or the Statue of Liberty? Those projects are more reminiscent of the goals China seems to have in its supertalls even if China's do have some living space inside them.

On that note, how many people actually worked in the World Trade Center (which by the way was also built by government), or have worked in the Empire State Building, the Transamerica Pyramid or the Sears Tower versus the number of people who know about them because they are tall and architecturally significant?

Actually, I think it's the purely utilitarian buildings purely driven by profit and use that end up being forgotten about as run-of-the-mill office buildings, which is not a bad thing because their purpose was never to be landmarks. Maximum efficiency has never been the main purpose of skyscrapers; mid-rises and low-rises are far more economical when it comes to density and materials, and the densest neighborhoods in the world are full of 10-15 story buildings. Skyscrapers are built for novelty and they are profitable because of their flamboyance and advertising value; actual use comes second.

[muppet]

^good post. The rising cost of building tall often outweighs the maximising after a certain level. The densest or most efficient cities tend to be midrise areas for living, and working.

Skyscrapers have always been about an element of prestige or oneupmanship.

[Spocket]

Hardly could China's economy be considered free market, the balance sheets in a project like this have little importance.
I'm sorry to go a little off topic here but the truth is that China's market is considerably more "free" than any Western market I'm aware of .
That may well be due to an almost total lack of enforcement of regulations or an equally minimal level of government interference ... I don't know. I can tell you though that any business owner in China doesn't worry about being taxed to death on whatever the government can think up next . Nor is there market regulation the same way we think of it in the West . You can start any business you want to here and sell virtually anything that tickles your fancy . There are a few things that you can't openly sell (like porn for example) but you don't have to go far in search of them in the black market anyway .

For good or for bad , China has a very free market . Perhaps it's too free and that's a problem .

[Onn]

For good or for bad , China has a very free market . Perhaps it's too free and that's a problem .

Well no its not because the government has an extremely high level of involvement in the economy, such as central planning, the one child policy, and a high degree of mercantilistic practices (state-run companies). I think what you are referring to is corruption or a lack of rule of law.

[Metranite]

You know what, China?! You can go ahead and have all these groundbreaking new towers of enormous height! We'll just continue to build our publicly assisted Freedom Tower and dream about the past.:eat:

[DigitalNinja]

Onn obviously believes he know everything about China and how it's society works.

In a free market economy there is a direct replacement for every item. So if there is an Iphone there will be a Tphone that does the same thing and the items will compete. This cannot happen in western countries due to copyright laws, and how limiting they are for others.

Just as an example in China real iphones are very expensive about twice the equivalent cost as in western countries. (About $1000 american there) Because demand is so high in China they can sell them for this price and still get many sales out of it. But many cannot afford it, ipods are much cheaper, so a Chinese guy invented a case for an ipod touch that adds a phone compatibility to it. A direct competitor to the iphone which would never be approved for sale in western countries.

You also comment on the one child policy, there are ways around that, anyone who has enough money can have a second or third child. The law prevents anyone who does not have the income to support a second child of having one legally. I agree with this, better to have a good life for 1 child than a crappy life for two.

Also better to have the government have some control over the economy, in that they set the price for many needs of people so that many can afford them.

Also lots of countries have state run organizations for example here in Canada I would say we are almost more socialist than China, with our postal system a government company, some power companies are, water, trains, and many many others.

Also this topic is for the building in China Onn, not if you think it will be built or not, or how usable it is. People should be commenting here on the overall design of the skyscraper.

On that note, I think that all three of these buildings will together create an area that will become unique in it's own way. With the Jin Mao representing the past, SWFC representing the present, and the Shanghai Tower representing the future it forms a since of time with sky scrapers. Something that you can look at all three together and you are not just looking at an old building or an old building next to a new one which totally destroys the old one but rather they all feed off of each other to create a tri-skyscraper design.

[Spocket]

Well no its not because the government has an extremely high level of involvement in the economy, such as central planning, the one child policy, and a high degree of mercantilistic practices (state-run companies). I think what you are referring to is corruption or a lack of rule of law.

Ha ha ... okay , well I don't know if you've ever been here but if you want to run a side by side comparison of most Western populations versus the Chinese , you'll definitely find that there is a tremendous respect for rule of law . Enforcement is what I said and yes , corruption IS a big problem here . That has more to do with Chinese culture though because it's considered perfectly fine to gift jobs away to relatives and friends rather than the meritocracy the West has been abandoning for decades .

In any case , the Chinese simply aren't as high-strung about these things and at some point in the future it will be a problem for them . They'll discover why copyright infringement is a definite no-no and why it's worth clamping down on . In the meantime , as I said before , whatever the rules are supposed to be , in practice a market doesn't get much more free than this .

[phoenixboi08]

http://fmn.xnpic.com/fmn049/20101207/0150/p_large_tEDb_6717000d01a15c43.jpg

Thought this was interesting...:D

[pablosan]

Jin Mao will define the skyline most because it brings the traditional with the modern in Chinese architechture.

[Infernal_Elf]

i agree on The Jin Mao tower being the best of the three also.

it has this very good modern take on ancient Chinese architecture.
With stunning details and many out sticking parts on the whole facade instead of just sleek glass. And the transition to the spire on the top is also very good

it has a very famous and well designed hotel inside with one of the tallest atriums in the world which looks stunning.

it was the 5th tallest structure in the word in 1998 before the skyscraper wars really took off.


The two other in the cluster also looks good but i feel that the Jin Mao is much more of an icon

[Aleks]

i don't think there is a "best."

like another forumer said, they each complete each other. one represents the culture, the other economic growth, and the third the future and technological advances china is seeing. i do agree with others however, that jin mao is the empire state of china.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5298848774_d4b76d6f90_b.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5298848774_d4b76d6f90_b.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5298848914_e0b1d0027d_b.jpghttp://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/5298848914_e0b1d0027d_b.jpg

[FrancoRey]

Wow it seems like this thing is getting built fast. The foundation took less time than normal. Especially when I think back about the last circle foundation that seemed to take eons, then stopped. (*cough* Chicago Spire *cough cough*)

Or maybe I'm just getting old and years are becoming more like months for me. :shuffle:

[JDRCRASH]

Wow!!! That was fast!!!:banana:

[photoLith]

This will be kick ass to watch go up. It is seriously one of the most awesomely designed buildings going up. Oh and my uncles company in Shanghai that he started is doing the carpeting in this building, so maybe once it gets more completed I can get some sweet insider pics from him.

[Yume-sama]

Holy crap~ How many construction workers must they have? It seems like this was still a hole in the ground last month :P

At this rate maybe it will be complete by the time I'm in Shanghai this Summer :haha:

[giallo]

^So you're finally going to make it out this way. Cool. PM me when you're here and I'll be happy to show you around (if I'm not back in Vancouver at that time).

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

remarkable progress! any idea how tall it will be in july of 2012,when im there?

[Yume-sama]

^So you're finally going to make it out this way. Cool. PM me when you're here and I'll be happy to show you around (if I'm not back in Vancouver at that time).

:tup: Yes, I'm doing the old communist circle lol - if everything goes as planned.

St. Petersburg, Moscow, Beijing, Shanghai.

[The Chemist]

:tup: Yes, I'm doing the old communist circle lol - if everything goes as planned.

St. Petersburg, Moscow, Beijing, Shanghai.

I'd certainly be happy to show you around this summer too - and I'll definitely be in town. Hope you're ready for some oppressive heat, though. ;)

[Fabb]

From SSC :


By mori
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5042/5329305039_9aae5d73cf_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5290/5329917414_b6146e1b1c_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5210/5329916938_9b51d42851_b.jpg

[sask1982]

^^ Thanks for posting!

[Ersh]

This is going to be an awesome tower to watch go up. By far my favorite U/C in the world now!

[Complex01]

Looking very good.

[colemonkee]

The crazy thing about this is that's just the core.

[Biff]

Not all of the crane bracing needs to be that substantial, right? I would assume that is just the bracing for the base of the cranes (one on each side of the building).

......and holy crap, that is a massive core.

[giallo]

The ST core is the largest I've ever seen. In person, it's jaw-dropping.

[hunser]

omg, it has grown so big! amazing speed. :worship:

[The Chemist]

I need to get over to Lujiazui during my 4 week long Spring Festival holiday which starts next week and check this out in person. :)

[rjb001]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but how quickly are we going to start seeing the shape of this building? Don't get me wrong, it's going REALLY fast already but does anyone know when the outside of it will be noticeable?

Granted it's mostly glass but there will be some framework for it too right?:shrug:

[R@ptor]

Took that one last weekend:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5353778625_f90fc5a1e6_b.jpg

[navazan]

:( bloody hell. the chinese are gonna take over

[Troubadour]

:( bloody hell. the chinese are gonna take over

Don't bet on it. What you're seeing right now is the product of inertia from massive external investment over the preceding decades, not so much internal creativity or productivity. It's unsustainable, and once China has to rely on its internal qualities rather than massive trade imbalances to fund its growth, the size, density, and Byzantine complexity of its economic and political system - not to mention demographic issues - will make things exponentially more difficult. The problems that stopped Japan's meteoric rise were trivial in comparison.

Nevertheless, China will probably exceed the United States in absolute resources, and still has quite a ways to go before peaking - although its ability to use those resources effectively will be badly compromised when trade equilibrium occurs or is forced on them by trading partners tired of hemmorhaging money due to Beijing's wanton currency manipulation. We already see some construction projects beginning to slow or be put on hold.

Shanghai Tower will, of course, be completed - it's a central prestige project for the city and the country, in the same way (though nowhere near to the same degree) as 1 WTC is for the US. We can be certain that the shape of the status of the market would not be allowed to prevent its completion if things turned sour in the near future.

[BStyles]

Update from Samhou, at t.sina.com.cn:
http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/6f8dff0djw6ddpqv35wjqj.jpg

And an unknown author from the same website, 1899616970 for now:
http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/7139dacatw6ddohi8g0tdj.jpg

[Fabb]

It looks very different. Most of the scaffolding is gone and I can see steel columns outside the concrete core.
Thanks for the update !

[DigitalNinja]

It's coming along nicely, any idea what the other building next to it will be?

[davidinasia]

I happened to be near ST a couple of nights ago and thought I would see what was going on.

Whoever posted the blueprints a few pages back did a great thing. Very illuminating. The structure is remarkably complex (even more so than it appears from the outside) with striking differences between sections.

At the site now, one can see the lower core with its nine-part structure, complete to level 11. All the steel is specially fabricated; no building using standard beams to save money.

Up close, the core is just huge - it has a horizontal area as big as most completed buildings, and that is only the core! ST is really a monster.

Another weird thing about this building, is the arrangement of the cranes; there are four now, all affixed on stands to the side of the core. I have never seen this arrangement on any building before. Perhaps they plan to jack the crane bases up as the building rises, since otherwise, the bottom of the crane would obstruct the outer part of each floor that has to be built around the core.

ST backed by Jin Mao and WFC.

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/27600/1129819.jpg

closeup of the cranes

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/27600/1129823.jpg

another shot

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/27600/1129827.jpg

different angle

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/27600/1129830.jpg

the third "brother" taking shape

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/27600/1129835.jpg

http://www.bluemelon.com/photo/27600/1129839.jpg

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

question,is there a possibility of this one taking as long as SWFC did?

[R@ptor]

I took those today:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5216/5410685876_f3c5245cbb_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/5410075139_feafaf51c8_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/5410685644_a6841c857e_b.jpg

[Fabb]

The steel beams that will form the floors don't seem to be attached to the concrete core.
I surprised... unless I miss something in the picture.

[The Chemist]

question,is there a possibility of this one taking as long as SWFC did?

Not likely. This is at least partly being financed by the government, so it's likely that it'll be full speed ahead until completion.

[The Imster]

While the building will be taller than the World Financial centre - i dont think that it will be better looking - it will be an awesome sight - three gigantic buildings near each other - i would love to see them. China and the Middle East are the SKYSCRAPER Kings!

[Infernal_Elf]

While the building will be taller than the World Financial centre - i dont think that it will be better looking - it will be an awesome sight - three gigantic buildings near each other - i would love to see them. China and the Middle East are the SKYSCRAPER Kings!

yes indeed they are really booming these days

will be such an amazing trio when done and i wonder when china will go for the worlds tallest building

[rjb001]

And an unknown author from the same website, 1899616970 for now:
http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/7139dacatw6ddohi8g0tdj.jpg

Woah! That looks like the same kind of structural tube system as the Sears Tower!

[Roadcruiser1]

I am sure that this is what the Chicago Spire site would have looked like if construction had continued on to the next level.

[JDRCRASH]

I am sure that this is what the Chicago Spire site would have looked like if construction had continued on to the next level.

Has anything happened to the pit, or the site in general?

[STR]

Woah! That looks like the same kind of structural tube system as the Sears Tower!

Actually, this building isn't at all similar to the Sears Tower. First of all, the Sears Tower doesn't have a concrete core. In fact, Sears really doesn't have a core in the same sense a building like this does. There are no load-bearing core walls, the regular structure is the same throughout the building. It actually isn't too different from the structural system of older buildings like Empire State, it just has some of the columns moved around to create larger areas of column-free space.

This tower has more in common with Taipei 101. A central, defined structural core with outrigger supercolumns.

[Inkoumori]

So nice! Let's go.:tup:

[phoenixboi08]

I will be seeing this tommorrow! :notacrook:

[DigitalNinja]

Will the middle core be used for elevators only? Looks kinda like that to me.

[giallo]

Not the most detailed update, but meh, better than nothing, I suppose.

You can see a slice of the core with the red crane attached to it. It needs to rise another 25-30fl before I'll get a really good view of the tower. I can't wait until that happens - though it will block a portion of the SWFC.


This photo was taken just before a big, fat blizzard swept through the city.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5051/5453009954_44ebb2cb97_b.jpg

[Biff]

This photo was taken just before a big, fat blizzard swept through the city.



What exactly do you mean "blizzard"? You don't mean snow, do you?

[guizi]

Took this one the other day:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5134/5461750588_2fd442ccea_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/a_reneby/5461750588/)
shanghai tower taking shape (http://www.flickr.com/photos/a_reneby/5461750588/) by alexander reneby (http://www.flickr.com/people/a_reneby/), on Flickr

[Infernal_Elf]

^ If only they stopped being paranoid about Japan and kept the "circle" design.:haha:

Totally agree that design was pure beauty compared to the square.

and it would have been a good way to say its time to burn and bury the hatchet.

and it has nothing to do with construction technices Obey it was solely not done because the square is a symbol of Japan. And China and Japan havent really ever been good friend.

and especially not after the Japanese invasions in the early 20th century and the actions of japan in ww2

[pikaqiu86]

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/11022620258b7688eb422015eb.jpg

[Skyhigh8]

wow, amazing tower, it is getting higher and higher.

[BStyles]

*cough* So yeah, the tower is still growing.

By mori, at gaoloumi.com:
http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/110226202575db5030b35288b5.jpg

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/11022620258b7688eb422015eb.jpg

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/110226202533e742016032897a.jpg

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/1102262027c7fcad920826acfd.jpg

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/11022620274492f81f106d3b51.jpg

http://pic.gaoloumi.com/attachments/day_110226/110226202792ae281293b11cfb.jpg

[STR]

Those are some big outrigger columns. Looking at the leaked plans, they'll be even bigger when everything is done as the steel we're seeing now is due to be encased in concrete.

[kenratboy]

LOL, I was about to comment about how small those columns (silver ones) were...until I was those beasts (rusted ones). Wow!

[JDRCRASH]

Sorry if this question was already asked, but:

Is there a webcam for this thing?

[OneWorldTradeCenter]

Some news from SSC.

Or just a hoax? It appears as they changed the design:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=391698&page=337

http://gerhardrinkens.com/images/shanghai-tower-aerial-view-cropped.jpg

http://gerhardrinkens.com/images/Shanghai-Tower-aerial-view.jpg

http://gerhardrinkens.com/images/night-view-of-top-Shanghai-Tower.jpg

http://gerhardrinkens.com/images/Day-View-Shanghai-Tower.jpg

[Biff]

I hope they didn't change the design. I absolutely love the twisting design we all know. That said, this rendering is also pretty awesome and would love to see it built somewhere. It doesn't have quite the pizazz the twisting one does but it is still pretty sleek.

[Obey]

What???? Someone tell me its a hoax.

[The Chemist]

It's impossible for this to be a 'new' design. The way the construction site is (particularly with the slightly angled supercolumns which would not fit with this design that doesn't have a twisting element) points clearly to the original Gensler design. I don't know where this one came from, but it's not what they are building.

[Tom In Chicago]

This doesn't appear to be a new design. . . there's no evidence that this wasn't just something someone found on another architects website which was a visionary proposal from sometime ago. . .

. . .

[BStyles]

Nah, it's a hoax. They're still going with the Shanghai Twister.

[Lecom]

Maybe someone just posted one of the earlier design competition proposals.

[Tom In Chicago]

That's exactly what it looks like to me. . . no hoax. . . just an earlier design. . .

. . .

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9380.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9380.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9373.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9373.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9375.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9375.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9393.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9393.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9382.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9382.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9384.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9384.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9386.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9386.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9388.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9388.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9389.jpg
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/OrangeUtan/Shanghai%20Pudong/Shanghai%20Tower%20construction/March%2024%202011/DSCN9389.jpg