[googleabcd]

Guangzhou Metro, line3/4
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/China/02150F60.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/China/02150F5B.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/China/02150F70.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/China/02150F67.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/China/02150F80.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/China/02150F4F.jpg

[J Church]

Very nice.

Not so sure about the pink faregates, however.

[Chilean_sky]

awesome, i like it, the metro system is very cool
nice city too

[quashlo]

Wow.
I must have passed through a time warp.
This is the future of metropolitan passenger transport. :worship:

[staff]

Looks very similar to the MTR in Hong Kong, as well as the Metro in Shenzhen and the newer lines in the Shanghai Metro - ie. very nice. Not the most unique though. :)

[googleabcd]

Again, Guangzhou metro photos, each statsion has a unique color and the ad is really cool

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219D664.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219C805.jpg

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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219C759.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219C755.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219C751.jpg

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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219D6A5.jpg

[MolsonExport]

In North America, the walls would be instantly graffittied.

[WonderlandPark]

Wow, now that is a modern metro system.

[zilfondel]

Very shiny!

[Minato Ku]

In North America, the walls would be instantly graffittied.

In Paris the the walls would be dirty and LCD screen damaged.
Many Plasma screen are damaged in paris RER.

Really nice and clean subway .

[BenL]

In North America, the walls would be instantly graffittied. But I imagine the punishments in China will be significantly greater for graffiti than in liberal, western democracies.

[jamesinclair]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/0219C755.jpg


Thats an interesting application of communism.

[Baiyoke]

nice shots... nice system... nice city!

[Deez]

Awesome.

One question: Where the hell is everybody? Nice 12M metro population.

[spyguy]

I really love the bright color scheme, but some stations look like one big advertisement. How much revenue is generated by all the advertising?

[superchan7]

Thats an interesting application of communism.
???

[Kilgore Trout]

But I imagine the punishments in China will be significantly greater for graffiti than in liberal, western democracies.


yeah, but hong kong is a liberal democracy (or at least partial democracy... it still has a liberal constitution, though) and its metro is very, very clean. same with tokyo. it probably has more to do with culture and maintenance budgets than anything else.

[Kilgore Trout]

Thats an interesting application of communism.

you realize that china hasn't actually been communist since mao died in 1976, right?

[Minato Ku]

China is still communist
but it is a capitalist communist :)

Asian people are more respectful than European et north american people.

[BenL]

yeah, but hong kong is a liberal democracy (or at least partial democracy... it still has a liberal constitution, though) and its metro is very, very clean. same with tokyo. it probably has more to do with culture and maintenance budgets than anything else.
Of a population of 7 million, 300,000 can vote - those most likely to vote for the government. I think you're very wrong - Japan is a democratic country where human rights are taken seriously - in China they have execution vans with lethal injection equipment in the back.

China is officially still communist - and this allows an extremely authoritarian state which practises one of the most free market systems in the world. I think it's wrong that Guangzhou has such a modern metro system when the money could be far better spent on the majority of desperately poor people in the country. And why is it so empty? Because most people can't afford to use it.

[SSLL]

Looks good. Lots of bright colors though.

[slide_rule]

China is officially still communist - and this allows an extremely authoritarian state which practises one of the most free market systems in the world. I think it's wrong that Guangzhou has such a modern metro system when the money could be far better spent on the majority of desperately poor people in the country. And why is it so empty? Because most people can't afford to use it.

to prove your point, you'll have to ignore the fact that the london subway and squalor coexisted for the longest time.

that, plus the fact that the guangzhou subway is usually packed.

[BenL]

I take your point and I accept that a great deal of misery was placed on the people of London during the period Britain was the richest country on earth but one hundred and fifty years ago, it was common place to have no social welfare in rich countries. Today it is not. Especially for a country calling itself communist.

How expensive is it to travel on the Guangzhou underground?

[slide_rule]

2-8 yuan. guangzhou is the white collar hub of the region, so its wages are relatively high. an 'average' worker makes ~2000 yuan/month. the lowest on the rung, the non-status guest workers from the interior hinterland, make around 600 yuan. but these workers are housed in company dorms, and these industries are concentrated in the neighboring industrial city of dongguan.

as bad as the authoritarian regime is, you cannot dismiss the positive nature of the subway. guangzhou's mean income has already surpassed the minimum threshold for car ownership. the subway, although relatively expensive compared to the bus, is used by the masses. the subway is a useful capital expenditure, it's not some ego boosting toy.

conversely, you cannot apply post-industrial standards to a developing nation. if this subway is seen as an extravagance, then you'll have to criticize most everything else.

[TALLTOWER]

How does it looks like at rush hour it looks pretty empty to me.

[BenL]

2-8 yuan. guangzhou is the white collar hub of the region, so its wages are relatively high. an 'average' worker makes ~2000 yuan/month. the lowest on the rung, the non-status guest workers from the interior hinterland, make around 600 yuan. but these workers are housed in company dorms, and these industries are concentrated in the neighboring industrial city of dongguan.

as bad as the authoritarian regime is, you cannot dismiss the positive nature of the subway. guangzhou's mean income has already surpassed the minimum threshold for car ownership. the subway, although relatively expensive compared to the bus, is used by the masses. the subway is a useful capital expenditure, it's not some ego boosting toy.

conversely, you cannot apply post-industrial standards to a developing nation. if this subway is seen as an extravagance, then you'll have to criticize most everything else.
I accept your point. I suppose I am quite prone to attacking China because of the hypocrisy of being reasonably left wing - and being outraged with the way it describes itself as communist. I think the huge gaps between rich and poor are awful - far greater than they could be certainly. I don't believe there is any substance in a huge skyscraper or any other prestige project if the majority of the country is living in abject poverty.

That said, if the government is to spend its money on any prestige project - a world class improvement in transport infastructure is probably better than most.

[googleabcd]

How does it looks like at rush hour it looks pretty empty to me.

It is pretty crowdy at rush hour.
I will post some photos at rush hour later on

[googleabcd]

Compared to the fee of TTC(Toronto), CAD$2.75,
2-8RMB is quite cheap, no matter you concern about exchange rate or not.

2-8 yuan. guangzhou is the white collar hub of the region, so its wages are relatively high. an 'average' worker makes ~2000 yuan/month. the lowest on the rung, the non-status guest workers from the interior hinterland, make around 600 yuan. but these workers are housed in company dorms, and these industries are concentrated in the neighboring industrial city of dongguan.

as bad as the authoritarian regime is, you cannot dismiss the positive nature of the subway. guangzhou's mean income has already surpassed the minimum threshold for car ownership. the subway, although relatively expensive compared to the bus, is used by the masses. the subway is a useful capital expenditure, it's not some ego boosting toy.

conversely, you cannot apply post-industrial standards to a developing nation. if this subway is seen as an extravagance, then you'll have to criticize most everything else.

[googleabcd]

I accept your point. I suppose I am quite prone to attacking China because of the hypocrisy of being reasonably left wing - and being outraged with the way it describes itself as communist. I think the huge gaps between rich and poor are awful - far greater than they could be certainly. I don't believe there is any substance in a huge skyscraper or any other prestige project if the majority of the country is living in abject poverty.

That said, if the government is to spend its money on any prestige project - a world class improvement in transport infastructure is probably better than most.
Dude, read the next 5 years planning of China, and you will get a basic understanding of how China will modernize different parts of China.

As for Guangzhou, you don't need to worry, most people in Guangzhou have a good quality life. I am sure they have much more funny life than you have.:P

[slide_rule]

BenL, not to be a jerk, but you should read up on economic history before getting on your pulpit. as a former accountant and history undergrad, i am NOT a fan of authoritarian, neoliberal economics. but (relatively efficient) capital expenditures for public transportation in chinese cities do benefit the lives of the everyday people. would you build a viable public transportation system, or would you rather continually expand the road network for the middle class and their growing ranks of private cars?

and, china's path towards development, with the exception of its size, is hardly unique. if you search hard enough, you'll see myriad similarites between its development and that of other nations. even in the recent past, the industrialization of hong kong, taiwan, s. korea and singapore were decidedly non-democratic. we don't talk about it much, because people have short memories, and because these nations' development was conducted under the auspices of anglo-american capitalism, the dark side of their industrialization would smear the good name of our economic system.

[googleabcd]

Photos at rush hour
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A69AA.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6B64.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6B6F.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6A92.jpg

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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6A2D.jpg

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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6985.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6974.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6971.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A6959.jpg

[BenL]

BenL, not to be a jerk, but you should read up on economic history before getting on your pulpit. as a former accountant and history undergrad, i am NOT a fan of authoritarian, neoliberal economics. but (relatively efficient) capital expenditures for public transportation in chinese cities do benefit the lives of the everyday people. would you build a viable public transportation system, or would you rather continually expand the road network for the middle class and their growing ranks of private cars?

and, china's path towards development, with the exception of its size, is hardly unique. if you search hard enough, you'll see myriad similarites between its development and that of other nations. even in the recent past, the industrialization of hong kong, taiwan, s. korea and singapore were decidedly non-democratic. we don't talk about it much, because people have short memories, and because these nations' development was conducted under the auspices of anglo-american capitalism, the dark side of their industrialization would smear the good name of our economic system.
I agreed with you. I would prefer the country tried to advance itself threw less ultra-capitalist ways but I can see that infastructure improvements, such as an underground, is going to help a city develop.

What should I take this to mean googleabcd?
I am sure they have much more funny life than you have.

[Jonas]

I would think it's the HK MTR ;)
Very nice :yup:

[googleabcd]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA778.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA752.jpg
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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA79C.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA78C.jpg
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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A9F99.jpg
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http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021A9EF9.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA852.jpg

[Damien]

^ Is it a train station or a club? Talk about great designs for a Sunset Strip station in L.A.! :tup:

I really love the bright color scheme, but some stations look like one big advertisement. How much revenue is generated by all the advertising?

In Los Angeles, the subway stations and trains have no ads, although this may be thankfully changing. I honestly don't understand why some people consider it so unbearable. If each station brings in about $250-500K a year in ad revenue, think of how many transit cops and station janitors that could pay for to keep the station safe and clean. (L.A. stations are pretty darn clean by the way).

Heck I’ll tell you how liberal I am about it; I would let the company have the entire station. A Hollywood and Vine Paramount station could be really cool.

Very nice.

Not so sure about the pink faregates, however.

C'mon J Church. You KNOW they'd be a HIT in San Fran!

[vincent]

wow, nice! was line 3 and 4 just opened recently?

[hk_ayu]

Guangzhou is a quite modern and advanced city in China and people there are relatively richer than most part of China.


I can't agree investing on public transport means communism.
eg. Hong Kong has an excellent public transport (mostly private) and at the same time she has the highest level of capitalism and the most successful practice of free market system in the world.

Relatively, US is much more communist than Hong Kong

[BenL]

Two ultra-capitalist systems cannot be more communist than one another. They can operate in a more left wing fashion than the other, but communism is an ideology. You're either communist or you're not.

[WHY-T]

^ Is it a train station or a club? Talk about great designs for a Sunset Strip station in L.A.!
From what I see in the pictures, I believe that's a youth trend/fashion shopping arcade that's probably connected to a station.

Is HK's MTR managing the system as well? I know they helped build the new lines. Those station designs are definitely a direct mould from those in HK.

If only they could get those stations' English names right....Guang Zhou Dong Zhan does not mean much to a foreigner as compared to Guang Zhou East Station. At least Shanghai has more or less got this right.

[superchan7]

By using pinyin and avoiding English words, it may work a bit better for non-English-speakers.

Just a possibility.

[googleabcd]

It is impossible to translate some Chinese roads' names into English directly.

So either all PINYIN or all English, not half PINYIN half English.

Guangzhou metro is really well designed and planned. And I heard that they do lots of research before they made this decision.

MTR is not managing the system at all, it is 100% controlled and run by Guangzhou metro company. Beside, I think Guangzhou metro is better than HK's MRT, newer and advancer
From what I see in the pictures, I believe that's a youth trend/fashion shopping arcade that's probably connected to a station.

Is HK's MTR managing the system as well? I know they helped build the new lines. Those station designs are definitely a direct mould from those in HK.

If only they could get those stations' English names right....Guang Zhou Dong Zhan does not mean much to a foreigner as compared to Guang Zhou East Station. At least Shanghai has more or less got this right.

[superchan7]

HK MTR gets 2.4 million riders per day on a small network (smaller than GZ). They use 8-car trains with 5 doors each side for extremely heavy usage.

KCR East Rail gets 0.9 million riders per day on one 30km line. They use 12-car trains with 5 doors each side.

Compared by scale, GZ line 3/4 only has 3 or 4 car trains with 3-4 doors each side. I know GZ line 1 and 2 have 6-car trains. Even if MTR has no LCD TV inside the train, no LCD TV on platform, HK's railways are still very up to date and have very intense daily usage. Also, MTR has a unique system map and a very clever interchange station design.

I think KCR East Rail needs improvement (everything is too old) but MTR and KCR West Rail are very advanced. There are entire threads on MTR/KCR, if you really want to compare you can look it up. =)

[Minato Ku]

Can you show the same with Lyon (France) twin city of Guangzhou since 1988

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA852.jpg

[Grumpy]

They sure know how to bring colour into the underground, most other subways look like graveyards when seeing all of this.
I like it very much

[Grumpy]

sorry double post

[ksyu]

Looks great. But utter dissapointment. It is a exact replica of Hong Kong's MTR which is a natural historical development. It has transformed itself from the 70s up until now. All GZ did was copy.

[M II A II R II K]

Looks very modern and clean compared to what I'm accustomed to seeing.

[Ronin]

Heh... Mainlanders get defensive whenever the comparison to HK is brought up. Hey, no shame in copying one of the greatest cities in the world. :tup:

[SFUVancouver]

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k286/digitalfans/Guangzhou%20Metro/021AA852.jpg

Well that's nice to see. Thank you Guangzhou!

[dchan]

I actually posted some of my brief experiences with this system in the China section of SSP. My father is from Guangzhou, and my mother lived in the area for a long time. My paternal grandparents still live in the city along with my aunt. So I visited the city with my parents back in 1988 when I was three years old, in 1992, in 2000, in 2004, and in 2007. The city has changed a lot through those years, from being a city full of bicycles to being a city full of cars.

When I was there in April 2000, the system was supposedly just up and running. There was only one line in the system at the time. The subway stations for the most part looked nothing like those pictures; instead they looked sort of like the corridors of a hospital: white, clean, bleak, antiseptic. Once, I was on subway in the middle of the day when there was pretty much nobody else riding. Due the bleakness of the city at the time (partially due to the city being in a transition period, part of it due to the lousy weather when I was there. The only time I saw the Sun was the day I left for New York from Hong Kong.), I assumed that this system was a waste of money because the people living in the city couldn't afford it. The subway fares tended to be several times more expensive than the bus fares, which cost about .5 RMB at the time.

I guess I selectively chose that image to be my view of the circa-year-2000 system, which is unfair in many ways. For one thing, NYC subways can become just as empty during middle of the day, especially in Queens. Also, I would have blocked out my memory of a station having a lot of people in it had I not remembered a policeman admonishing a parent from letting his kid go under the turnstiles and ride for free at that station. I can specifically remember that because I used to do the same thing all the time in NYC, only without any sort of harassment from the fuzz (it was the 80's/early 90's. The police had bigger fish to fry.).

I guess as a high school student, I couldn't predict the growth of China to be what it has become. I had thought it would grow steadily, but at a far slower pace than what I had seen. So when I visited in 2007, I faced a completely new, modern airport. Not that dump that that was in its spot back in 2004. The subway stations were were completely different and looked just as they did in the pictures above. New skyscrapers were being built left and right.

Here are a few things to put into perspective. My grandfather pedaled me around on his bicycle amongst all the other bicycles in the city back when I was 3 in 1998; the only bicycles that I saw in 2007 were being pushed around by somewhat sketchy characters. There were much more cars on the road now, but the roads were still arranged using an older design, albeit somewhat revised design.

The hotel I stayed at in 2007 was once considered the premier hotel in Guangzhou according to my parents; while it was still kept very nicely, my parents noted its Communist-era (well, the Mao and Deng Xiao Ping eras) quirkiness when compared modern hotels in the city, and it showed. Here are some quirks: on each of the room floors, there was a quasi-receptionist whose duty was to push to greet you as you came off the elevator and push the down button as you approached the elevators. The "fitness center" was cleanly kept, but was full of old equipment. The lobby was full of architectural design quirks. And the rooms were nicely kept, but had an aura of the 80's era.

Modern skyscrapers started popping up in the late 90's and early 2000's. They were mere quirks in the skyline of gray apartment buildings. Now, there are more of them, and they look less quirky. But there are still many apartment buildings around, so they still look somewhat quirky despite the changes.

In a way, my overall view of Guangzhou is that "the more things change, the more things stay the same." My grandparents have had a maid for a while, and they have a washer to wash their clothes. But I don't think anyone around where they live has a dryer, as I saw clothes being hanged outside virtually very window and balcony. The respect for elders is something that I have yet to see being mimicked anywhere in the U.S. While cars have become more popular, plenty of people still take buses and the new subways rather than take a taxi; public transportation usage has not really dropped off much. Despite the changes, the people living there seem to have changed very little.

Sorry about hijacking the thread.


Here's the link to the thread I mentioned above in the China section.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3235240#post3235240