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i-215
Apr 4, 2009, 7:21 AM
Speaking of alternative fuels, I just got out of my university transportation planning class that was fascinating.

The professor made an excellent point. She said the real problem with gasoline is not the fuel itself but the fact that everybody uses it. As soon as we all switch to an "alternative" we'll find that fuel/method's side effects come out - and may be as bad (or worse) than those we experience with gasoline.

Still, she said we need to explore alternatives because oil isn't going to last forever. But I could see what she means. Hydrogen cars will raise humidity which will change ecology. It seems silly, but most gasoline cars now release pretty much just CO2 which is actually very clean. It's too bad it has climate effects, or we'd be in great shape.

urbanboy
Apr 4, 2009, 7:34 AM
I'm pretty sure the point of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is to distract our attention from the fact that electric vehicles exist. I think perhaps that big oil lobbyists have promoted the development of the hydrogen powered vehicle, because they know it's either impossible, or unrealistic. And in the mean time, they can stay in business. Interesting fact: At one time in automobile history, there were more electric cars on the road than gas powered automobiles.

delts145
Apr 4, 2009, 10:46 AM
Well hopefully, the new Tesla just coming off the assembly line will do extremely well. They have the sports car that is produced in Albuquerque, and the new 5 passenger, which was just shown in California over the past week, and will be assembled at a plant in California. I agree that the electric vehicle is the most exciting prospect. They've been making some excellent improvements with the battery as of late.

Urban_logic
Apr 5, 2009, 6:10 AM
Wait a minute now, I understood this was a natural gas facility. Granted, natural gas is not renewable, but at least it's relitively very clean, and far better than many other options. At least as far as clean energy, for the largest amount of customers served bang. I consider Natural Gas as a huge improvement over coal, or even the new, "cleaner coal," especially for that location. I wish we could all just convert our vehicles to CNG as quickly as possible.

The problem with clean coal is that it is not clean. Sure, they take the pollution out of the air, but it doesn't just disapear. It is converted from one waste into another that must be put somewhere. We are dealing with the negative by-products of coal either way. Plus it is 20% more expensive than regular coal burning plants. I say we get off it completely!! The coal companies are pushing all this "clean coal" crap because it keeps them in business but gets people behind it.

Here's a good video on the matter:

http://zaproot.com/2009/01/how-dirty-is-clean-coal-zaproot-070/

If that doesn't work, here is the youtube version of the same video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7RrgMPzGF0

I did not know that was a natural gas plant. I just assumed by the nastiness of the smoke coming out that it was dirty.

i-215
Apr 5, 2009, 6:41 AM
I'm pretty sure the point of the hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is to distract our attention from the fact that electric vehicles exist. I think perhaps that big oil lobbyists have promoted the development of the hydrogen powered vehicle, because they know it's either impossible, or unrealistic. And in the mean time, they can stay in business. Interesting fact: At one time in automobile history, there were more electric cars on the road than gas powered automobiles.

That last part - my professor pointed that out. She said had we spent 80 years developing electric motors, we'd have really awesome electric cars today. But we developed gasoline, which wasn't a terrible choice given the technology at the time, but as a result we have really awesome gasoline engines.

The key to electric is finding a power source for charging the cars. If we are using fossil fuels to generate electricity to power cars, we'd do better just keeping the gasoline cars. But if we can use solar and wind to charge our cars, it could work.

Anyway - her point was valid: We need to study alternatives because someday we will not have enough oil. But we can't compare petrol's bad attributes to an alternative's good attributes. It's not a fair comparison. But we should compare the good and bad of each fuel to the good and bad of the alternative.

As a result, gasoline is actually quite good. Most emissions are only CO2 now, which is good news at least as far as human health goes. Other alternatives may have less carbon emissions, but may emit other gasses that may be bad for people.

But gasoline has an iffy future. There are carbon-emission issues. So, we can't just keep doing what we're doing.

Future Mayor
Apr 6, 2009, 4:11 PM
Could they produce an electric car that is charged through wind or solar at home, possibly solar on the road and design a wind charging turbine into the design? That would allow the car to produce power from wind, as it drives. hmmmmmm :wizard:

jtrent77
Apr 6, 2009, 10:58 PM
Could they produce an electric car that is charged through wind or solar at home, possibly solar on the road and design a wind charging turbine into the design? That would allow the car to produce power from wind, as it drives. hmmmmmm :wizard:

The amount of energy produced by putting a wind turbine on a car so that you generated energy as you drove wouldn't be enough to make the idea feasible--sure you might be able to put a generator on there that could power a watch or something, but turbines aren't exactly light and adding that much weight to the car would slow it down considerably (not to mention the nearer and nearer you get to producing the same amount of energy you are using the nearer and nearer you are to breaking the natural law of 'energy can not be created nor destroyed')

i-215
Apr 7, 2009, 6:02 AM
The trouble with "wind as you drive" is robbing Peter to pay Paul. It takes energy to generate the "wind" you feel as you drive. And capturing it would only put a drag on the car requiring more energy to fight the turbine. Since the turbine doesn't operate at 100% efficiency, it generates a net loss of power.

They could put a solar panel on the car while you drive. The '12 Prius was supposed to have one - it may generate enough to power the radio. Maybe the AC fan.

We are making progress, but alternatives will result in decades of slow and steady progress. We're in better shape than we were in 1999, and in 2019 we will be in even better shape.

delts145
Apr 7, 2009, 1:38 PM
Hmmm.... I put this on the SLC development thread this morning, I think I'll put it over here also, since it's not only SLC development related, but also answers some of the important questions you guys are asking. I would be pretty stoked to see GreenStar get an electric car plant going in Utah. To think this guy has had this 100 mile vehicle sitting around for 15 years is hilarious if not maddening!

Councilman wants Salt Lake City to accommodate recharging electric cars

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705295673/SLC-infrastructure-for-electric-cars.html

...City Councilman Soren Simonsen plans to soon introduce a set of four initiatives aimed at putting basic infrastructure in place for electric cars...

..."We're at a really good time to take some initiative," he said. "There are a still a lot of unknowns. What is known is that we have a growing interest — I would say it has become quite large — to look at alternative fuels and alternative transportation..."

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1041657.jpg
Kyle Dansie looks over the solar panels on his electric car. The city may consider installing plug-in parking meters. (Jeffrey D. Allred, Deseret News)


All-green, all-go — electric car charges up spectators at raceway

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705295675,00.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1057894.jpg
Brooks Agnew shows off a fully electric vehicle at the Rocky Mountain Raceway in West Valley on Monday. Kristin Murphy, Deseret News

...Touted as the "plug and play vehicle" this all-electric car can go 100 miles without a charge and reach speeds up to 90 mph.

"This car is ready for prime time," declared Brooks Agnew, vice president of engineering for Salt Lake City-based Green Star Products, the car's developer...

..."This is robust and simple to drive, but it is not a golf cart with doors."

Fueled by the optimism Green Star will be successful in its pursuit of a $200 million grant from the Department of Energy made available through the 2009 Recovery Act, Agnew is eying Utah as the possible home for a production plant.

He wants to turn out 30,000 of the cars a year, and has plans for an all-electric pickup truck that will seat four people. The cars will sell for under $20,000...

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delts145
Apr 12, 2009, 12:12 PM
Stalled projects: Utah County

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705296663/Stalled-projects-Utah-County.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1071590.jpg
Construction of Orem's Midtown Village halted in 2008. The developer couldn't get financing to finish the project. Stuart Johnson, Deseret News

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1071601.jpg
Stuart Johnson, Deseret News
.
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blm3034L!fe
Apr 14, 2009, 1:02 AM
That's not good, when I was in Utah last summer I seen this development, and if those photo's are recent? It almost looks about the same as I seen it last time I was in town. Maybe the developer should have developed this in phases? :shrug:

Wasatch_One
Apr 14, 2009, 4:22 PM
This has become an eyesore (and probably would have been anyway, had it been completed)

Future Mayor
Apr 14, 2009, 5:54 PM
I think it will be an eyesore just as you do even when it's complete, until some additional heights rises in the area. I think that is sort of what Orem was hoping would eventually happen anyway. That this project could be the catalyst of some sort of shaping of a downtown. I hope another developer can come on board and finish it up. Better an occupied eyesore than a decaying one, IMO.

arkhitektor
Apr 14, 2009, 6:57 PM
I was in Cedar Hills this afternoon and took some pictures of the new Wal-Mart there as I got lunch at the Subway inside:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/jtylerlloyd/Image013.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/jtylerlloyd/Image014.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/jtylerlloyd/Image015.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/jtylerlloyd/Image016.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/jtylerlloyd/Image017.jpg

Of course, once you get inside, its basically the same as any other Walmart, except for the fact that there were like 10 open checkstands with no lines at all and cashiers standing there just waiting to check customers out:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f343/jtylerlloyd/Image019.jpg

SLC Projects
Apr 14, 2009, 8:14 PM
That's not haft bad. Nicest Walmart I've ever seen.

delts145
Apr 16, 2009, 12:23 PM
Dry Cleaning Plant coming to Wasatch Front

Ohio dry-cleaning franchise plans to expand in Utah

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/305910/

An East Coast-based dry-cleaning chain is making its debut in Utah with the addition of at least 15 stores over the next three years. Five of those will be located in Utah County.

Loveland, Ohio-based Martinizing Dry cleaning, through its Utah franchisee Scott Ray, will open its firt four stores in Sandy, Bountiful and Centerville as early as this summer. Other locations, each to be staffed by six to 10 workers, are planned in Utah, Salt Lake, Davis, Weber, Washington and Summit counties by 2012.

A 2,000-square-foot dry-cleaning plant will open in Highland by mid-summer of 2010, along with four retail stores, each averaging between 1,000 square feet and 1,100 square feet, in Provo, Orem and American Fork. About 100 new jobs will be added in Utah, including 30 in Utah County...

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delts145
Apr 17, 2009, 4:28 PM
Developer wants RDA for Geneva project


Politics » Vineyard's mayor complains the town has been kept out of the loop.

By Donald W. Meyers
The Salt Lake Tribune

Provo » The developers of Geneva Steel's property in northern Utah County believe the project is so important that it should be covered by a county redevelopment agency (RDA).

Dennis Astill, project manager for Anderson Geneva, said the county has the resources and the influence needed to make the mixed-use development work. The designation, he said, would help Anderson finance the $145 million to rehabilitate the 1,700-acre former steel-mill site.

It also would allow Anderson to receive tax incentives to help cover the cost of developing the site.

"It's just too big to handle any other way," Astill said.

But Vineyard Mayor Randy Farnworth said the developer is making an end-run around his town, home of the mill site. He said he was never approached about creating an RDA that would cover the entire property. In fact, the first clue Farnworth and Vineyard got that Anderson was seeking an RDA was when the Legislature passed a law allowing counties to create the agencies.

"We really want what is good," Farnworth said. "But we want to keep our ability to be a town."

Utah County commissioners heard Astill's pitch -- and Farnworth's concerns -- during a work session Tuesday.

Commission Chairman Larry Ellertson said any plan would require that Vineyard be an active participant.

"We'll need to work together to get this moving," Ellertson said.

But Farnworth said Anderson has kept Vineyard out of the loop. He said the company had made various proposals -- including partitioning off parts of the land as special service- and economic-development areas -- with just part of it as an RDA.

And he said the town is ready to step up to that plate. The town was certified in October to have an RDA, and it has retained some of the same planners and consultants Anderson used to work on the developer's St. George Airport project.

Utah County Commissioner Steve White said there are some advantages to having the county form the RDA, such as being able to tap into federal stimulus grants that are only available to counties and cities with populations greater than 100,000.

delts145
Apr 21, 2009, 12:04 PM
Saratoga Springs, UDOT at odds over plan to widen road

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705298442,00.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1100801.jpg
A walking path runs along Redwood Road outside a Saratoga Springs subdivision. Residents of the subdivision are upset with UDOT's plan to eliminate the trail to widen the road. (Jason Olson, Deseret News)

SARATOGA SPRINGS — A Saratoga Springs neighborhood has pitted itself against the Utah Department of Transportation after realizing UDOT's plan to widen a road includes paving over a portion of the neighborhood's community park.

"We need the road," said Larry Johnson, a neighborhood resident. "But why do they have to cut into our beautiful landscaped park when there's an open field across the road. It doesn't make sense." ...

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i-215
Apr 21, 2009, 4:04 PM
:previous:

I hate trails like that. They aren't meant to be used as a trail - they are meant to sell houses.

Honestly? Who wants to walk even farther along a curvy trail?

delts145
Apr 24, 2009, 12:54 PM
:tup: Utah Lake carp cleanup gets $1 million grant

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705299070/Carp-cleanup-gets-1M-grant.html

...Harris said models created by biologists show that as many as 5 million pounds of carp will need to be removed from the lake annually for the next six years to keep it from making a comeback. The carp were introduced into Utah Lake back in 1880 and currently comprise 90 percent of the fish weight in the lake, according to June Sucker Recovery Implementation Program officials.

A 75 percent to 80 percent reduction in the carp population is expected to not only make way for the June sucker to flourish, but also improve the clarity of the lake and help a number of species of native aquatic vegetation become reestablished...


http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1127204.jpg
Fisherman Bill Loy Jr. returns with a load of carp he caught in Utah Lake Wednesday just outside Provo. The June Sucker Recovery Program received one million dollars from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Department. The money will be used to allow Loy eliminate the carp population that has overtaken Utah Lake. Since last October they have fished over one million pounds and hope to increase that to five million pounds a year for five years. George Frey, Associated Press

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1127197.jpg
Fisherman Bill Loy Jr. unloads carp he caught in Utah lake into a bin Wednesday just outside Provo. The June Sucker Recovery Program received one million dollars from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Department. George Frey, Associated Press

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Orlando
Apr 24, 2009, 4:54 PM
Stalled projects: Utah County

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705296663/Stalled-projects-Utah-County.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1071590.jpg
Construction of Orem's Midtown Village halted in 2008. The developer couldn't get financing to finish the project. Stuart Johnson, Deseret News

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1071601.jpg
Stuart Johnson, Deseret News
.
.

That was just a poor location to begin with. Whow would want to pay $300k to $700k for a luxury condo on yucky & somewhat blighted State Street in Orem anyways?

Orlando
Apr 24, 2009, 5:01 PM
If you guys haven't seen this incredible building on your way down to Provo, it is definitely worth checking out. This building is built on the old Geneva Steel site, and is built by old Geneva Steel parts and from the old Coca Cola factory roof from 950s. 300w. in SLC.

Check out this video and article from Utah Stories:

http://www.utahstories.com/harley_timpanogos.htm

shakman
Apr 24, 2009, 7:43 PM
That was just a poor location to begin with. Whow would want to pay $300k to $700k for a luxury condo on yucky & somewhat blighted State Street in Orem anyways?

Perhaps why it is being built at its location would be to eventually "un-blight" State Street with incentives for developers?

delts145
Apr 25, 2009, 12:21 PM
When I think of blighted I think of dirty, grimey, rundown, allot of grafitti etc. This area is hardly fitting of the classic definition of urban or inner-city blight. Granted it is still lined with small, family style business, but it's orderly and clean, with incredible views of the surrounding Wasatch. I do agree that this project was not well thought out enough to attract the level of clientele it's prices were demanding. Hopefully another developer will be able to step in soon at a good price, finish it off and charge the correct per-unit price.

Also, looking at the actual finish on the project, notice the difference that say a few sophisticated council members can make. Take for instance the Cedar Hills council and a Walmart, and the Orem council with this ridiculous finish on what is suppose to be a luxury residential tower.

Future Mayor, I hope you're making sure that Payson doesn't make the same kind of mistakes, LOL.

Orem City also needs to make a conserted effort to follow-up with multi-level residential/commercial along the immediate State Street corridor. Orem is an unusually clean and one of the most beautifully situated cities in the West. It's high time it became more than just another peaceful bedroom community. Now that Geneva is gone and FrontRunner is on the way, the potential for Orem to stand out is enormous. It has an excellent grid for the most part, which could handle a well thought out urban center.

Spanish Fork announces start of new North Park

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705299555/New-North-Park-in-Spanish-Fork.html

SPANISH FORK — A new North Park is expected to begin taking shape this year just south of its previous location on 1000 North and U.S. 6.

In its former location a new multi-million commercial development is to house a Home Depot and another big box store, not yet named. The relocated 9.85-acre park is tucked to the south and behind the future stores.

City officials promise a much nicer park with a grand pavilion, nearly a half-mile of walking trails, more than 4.7 acres of grass, splash and play areas, a sand volleyball court and other amenities.

It is to have 279 trees and 5,824 shrubs. The city is looking for volunteers to plant the shrubs

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John Martin
Apr 25, 2009, 7:42 PM
I don't think the village is really that bad. It makes the area look like it's ready for more urbanization. It's so big that I don't think the surrounding businesses would really affect the likelihood of people moving there that much. I mean.. with all do respect, what area would be more appropriate? It looks like a freaking resort, you'd be certainly pissing someone off if you put it on a better piece of land. It's almost heart-breaking to see it sitting there collecting dust though, really hope someone finishes it while it's this close to completion.

delts145
Apr 26, 2009, 2:06 AM
I actually like the shapes and configuration of the village allot. My only complaint is the very bland looking finish on the upper floors.

poodledoodledude
May 11, 2009, 11:25 PM
It has an excellent grid for the most part, which could handle a well thought out urban center.


Delts-- i don't know about this statement...it seems to me orem has NO grid-- nothing but filled in orchards. from south of center street, main street is to the west, but north of center it transitions to the east. very confusing...also, they have more dead end streets in orem than all of utah county combined!! (k, maybe not, but can you tell i deliver for a living?!) everytime we have a delivery for orem, i have to hop on mapquest just to get simple directions! i don't think orem has a well planned out grid by any means!

now, delts--you know how to take this! :yes:
i'm just trying to say that orem is still the little sister to provo. one that steals everything provo gets, but which provo can't seem to hang on to! orem seems to be a leach from provo in a lot of ways.

university mall
orem owlz (was provo angels)
car dealerships
university pkwy corridor businesses

provo needs to step up to the plate and start getting in some good development in smart ways or provo will no longer be the big boy in the neighborhood.

poodledoodledude

delts145
May 12, 2009, 12:15 AM
^^^ LOL, I guess it will be interesting to see where Provo and Orem are in twenty years :shrug:

I will always like Provo. I think it's making some good progress. At the moment it's a little hard to gage things in the valley as far as where the next 'it' place will be. The next boom could easily turn Lehi into the place to be. Who knows.... Although the Provo/Orem combination in tandem is a pretty good one.

poodledoodledude
May 13, 2009, 6:59 PM
you know, the more i think of it, the more i seeing south county growing a LOT in the next 20-30 years. there is SOOOO much land south of provo to develop and SPACE!!!

already, the freeway around springville/spanish fork is developing as farmers sell off their land for development. similarly what happened in salt lake county 15-20 years ago. i remember when i would drive to salt lake as a kid and it was busy around murray and north...now, all along the freeway from draper north is busy and developed!

anyway, lehi and north county are enjoying the boom now...but i think as far as density, provo/orem will be on "top" for awhile.

...but let's just watch south county--seems with all the new high schools going in, lots of development will spur others to develop their properties around that.

what do you all think?

poodledoodledude

delts145
May 13, 2009, 7:03 PM
I look forward to that day Poodle, because as South County grows, the pressure to build towers will happen in Provo.

Future Mayor
May 13, 2009, 7:13 PM
The area of the Governors Office that predicts growth, estimated that by 2040 the south county will have 400,000 people, it now has roughly 100,000. The goal is to accomodate the population growth while preserving land as orchards, other agricultural uses and open space. The people are going to live here, the challenge is to house them in a more responsible way than has occurred in south SL county

wrendog
May 21, 2009, 1:25 AM
Pretty cool video of the new pioneer crossing road currently under construction in Lehi. The intersection at the freeway is insane...

http://www.udot.utah.gov/pioneer/

delts145
May 21, 2009, 1:35 AM
Wow, very cool. Thanks for the post Wren. For a second I was getting motion sickness at that new interchange, LOL. That's crazy, but I think it will be an awesome resolution.

cololi
May 21, 2009, 4:06 PM
that freeway intersection is a complete nightmare for pedestrians. I asked one of the designers at a conference how pedestrains would move through it and they said they had not really considered the pedestrian. Good ol UDOT.

As far as the rest of the road, they continue to make the same mistakes: limiting the number of intersections to a select few at signalized points, which increases traffic and limits transportation options to the private vehicle. There is a comment a few posts up about avoiding the inappropriate growth in the southern part of Utah Co, but the northern part seems to want to grow in the same way as any other suburb.

i-215
May 21, 2009, 4:11 PM
:previous:

Although Pioneer will have a multi-use path, it will be a limited-access road, designed for cars (no businesses along the road).

Most pedestrian traffic would probably cross at Lehi Main, where the businesses are.

cololi
May 21, 2009, 6:13 PM
:previous:
Thanks for the info. I honestly don't know much about the area, rare that I get to Utah County and even more rare when I get off the Interstate.

The way that the path integrates with the intersection strikes me as funny though. They go through the effort to include the path, but then don't really care about the integration of the two.

jtrent77
May 21, 2009, 11:43 PM
that freeway intersection is a complete nightmare for pedestrians. I asked one of the designers at a conference how pedestrains would move through it and they said they had not really considered the pedestrian. Good ol UDOT.


Hmm I see crosswalks throughout the project that should integrate just as well as crosswalks at any other freeway interchange...so not sure why this one is any different. Additionally, at present there isn't any pedestrian traffic that would cross from the Lehi side to the AF side of the freeway because there really aren't that many houses in that area of Lehi presently--you kind of have to know the area before you can start complaining about it.

Happy Valley Freak
May 22, 2009, 4:37 AM
Umm actually some pedestrians DO use that overpass. I would know, because I do! There is a bus stop on the Lehi Side of the freeway, at which I sometimes get off and walk over the overpass to the Meadows shopping area.

delts145
Jun 4, 2009, 1:09 PM
Lindon opens $10 million water park

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/lindon/article_82e281de-74a7-5679-93ae-6695cfe13ab5.html

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/heraldextra.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/a/33/cd0/a33cd0b0-e6bb-5265-bdbc-0bbe0a1e3e26.image.jpg?_dc=1243835927

.

delts145
Jun 18, 2009, 10:45 AM
Microsoft to hire in Lehi, Company's office will open in August

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705311095/Microsoft-to-open-office-in-Lehi.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1391904.jpg
Paul Mayfield, Director of Engineering for Microsoft, talks about the company's decision to open a software development center in the new Thanksgiving Park office complex in Lehi Wednesday. (Jason Olson, Deseret News)

...Microsoft tested the waters (in Utah) for a while. ... They loved what they saw in this place — the talent and the opportunity," he said. "We didn't even offer incentives from the state for Microsoft to come here."

Perry said the state's low cost of doing business and well-educated work force compared to other nearby states attracted the company to Utah

"It's really hard to do business in places like California now," he said. "As taxes start increasing, as red tape starts increasing because of it, they start looking for other locations."

Perry added that his agency has six or seven other projects that they are working on that could bring even more jobs to Utah. Announcements about those projects could be given during the next couple of months, he said...

Microsoft opening Lehi office, Economy » The software development giant brings 100 new jobs that will boost state's high-tech sector.

http://www.sltrib.com/business/ci_12613001?source=rv

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/0617/20090617__biz_microsoft_0618~3_Gallery.jpg
Utah Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert speaks during a ribbon cutting ceremony at Thanksgiving Point June 17, 2009. Microsoft is opening a software development center at Thanksgiving Park that will employ about 100 people. (Chris Detrick / The Salt Lake Tribune)

Orlando
Jun 18, 2009, 5:12 PM
Nobody seemed to have checked out my post about the new Harly dealership at the old Geneva Steel site. Probably because there was no picture. But, please believe me it is worth checking out. I tried finding a picture, but the website didn't allow me access to its url address of the specific piture. But, check this out: http://www.timpanogosharleygallery.com/ The building is incredible!!! It is built mostly out of the old Geneva Factory buildings. I'm not a Harley fan. I am an architecture fan, and this has got to be the coolest building in Utah Valley and maybe the state. Check it out!!

delts145
Jun 18, 2009, 6:02 PM
We had covered that quite a long time ago with pictures included. Definitely a very cool building.

Wasatch_One
Jun 18, 2009, 10:25 PM
Nobody seemed to have checked out my post about the new Harly dealership at the old Geneva Steel site. Probably because there was no picture. But, please believe me it is worth checking out. I tried finding a picture, but the website didn't allow me access to its url address of the specific piture. But, check this out: http://www.timpanogosharleygallery.com/ The building is incredible!!! It is built mostly out of the old Geneva Factory buildings. I'm not a Harley fan. I am an architecture fan, and this has got to be the coolest building in Utah Valley and maybe the state. Check it out!!

I eat lunch at Marleys, the little burger shop inside, every Friday. :cheers:

delts145
Jun 19, 2009, 11:44 AM
Springville fire station to open with hose-cutting

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705311342/Springville-fire-station-to-open-with-hose-cutting.html

...The new $2.6 million, 20,000-square-foot fire station, with four drive-through fire bays, replaces one built in the 1960s. Whitney says there wasn't enough room in the old station to walk between the firetrucks or store all of the equipment. The new building also provides more office and training space.

"It dresses up downtown tremendously," Whitney said of the new fire station. "It gives us more of an attractive city park and downtown area that will serve the community."...

:tup: http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1337665.jpg
The new fire station in Springville. (Jason Olson, Deseret News)

.

Orlando
Jun 23, 2009, 6:58 AM
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5279/is_20090511/ai_n31991382/?tag=content;col1

Shops at Riverwood going into foreclosure!

delts145
Jun 27, 2009, 10:59 AM
Relief for Eagle Mountain, Saratoga Springs commuters on the way

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705313272/Relief-for-Eagle-Mtn-commuters.html

Driving out to Saratoga Springs or Eagle Mountain is a bit laborious, but motorists from those two communities are getting a little relief.

Two separate projects in north Utah County will make the road to Saratoga Springs and beyond into Eagle Mountain much easier by next fall...

Saratoga Springs
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3309680413_eb81e5db40_b.jpg
MMGoode

.

TonyAnderson
Jun 28, 2009, 8:54 AM
It has an excellent grid for the most part, which could handle a well thought out urban center.


Delts-- i don't know about this statement...it seems to me orem has NO grid-- nothing but filled in orchards. from south of center street, main street is to the west, but north of center it transitions to the east. very confusing...also, they have more dead end streets in orem than all of utah county combined!! (k, maybe not, but can you tell i deliver for a living?!) everytime we have a delivery for orem, i have to hop on mapquest just to get simple directions! i don't think orem has a well planned out grid by any means!

now, delts--you know how to take this! :yes:
i'm just trying to say that orem is still the little sister to provo. one that steals everything provo gets, but which provo can't seem to hang on to! orem seems to be a leach from provo in a lot of ways.

university mall
orem owlz (was provo angels)
car dealerships
university pkwy corridor businesses

provo needs to step up to the plate and start getting in some good development in smart ways or provo will no longer be the big boy in the neighborhood.

poodledoodledude

This is why it seems Provo is and will be a major city, is because it actually has a grid / downtown / CBD. Really only 3 cities in Utah seem to have one at all: Salt Lake City, Ogden, and Provo. The rest of the Utah cities seem to just have a long main street, where they center all development. So unless one of those cities just bulldozes entire blocks of houses, they'll never be able to really accommodate a downtown.

goldcntry
Jun 30, 2009, 6:34 PM
Well, they could always create a new downtown; Sandy comes to mind with projects like the Pro-watchamacallit...

... or I'm just off my rocker.

:tomato:

TonyAnderson
Jun 30, 2009, 7:25 PM
Well, they could always create a new downtown; Sandy comes to mind with projects like the Pro-watchamacallit...

... or I'm just off my rocker.

:tomato:

They're definitely trying :) Can they really do that much though. I mean many cities could just create new downtowns, but in doing so would either have to take down blocks of houses (and in order to create a decent sized downtown, that'd be a lot of houses, which isn't likely) or build at a different location in the city (which would be awkward). If you think of most major cities in the history of America, they designed the city with a large lot set aside for their downtown. In fact, that's probably a likely contribution as to why they became big cities in the first place.

It be interesting to see examples of cities that didn't have much downtown at first and later on created one.

delts145
Jul 10, 2009, 12:41 PM
The Wasatch Front ~ America's Most Beautiful Metro Vistas

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3049/3044722633_761c939ce4_b.jpg
by DigitalSmith

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Wasatch_One
Jul 16, 2009, 3:25 PM
Convention centers moving forward in Provo, Pleasant Grove

Provo leaders share ideas; Pl. Grove hotel has gone out to bid

By Sara Lenz

Deseret News
Published: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:25 p.m. MDT


PROVO — Local elected officials and business leaders shared their ideas Tuesday for a proposed 80,000-square-foot convention center in the Utah County seat.

Utah County Commissioner Steve White called it "a visioning meeting," during which community members and architects discussed what the center should include and how it should look. The proposed site for the center is a block west of the Provo Marriott, 101 W. 100 North.

A 2 1/2-month, $79,000 conceptual-design study is under way to answer questions such as how much parking would be needed and which direction the center should face, said Paul Glauser, Provo's Redevelopment Agency director.

The convention center ultimately would be a county project because the main source of funding would come from hotel tax.

By the end of June, architects should have at least six conceptual designs of the building, said Don Nay, Utah County's assistant public works director. The architects will then discuss the plans and decide on one during a series of meetings. Nay said he hopes to have at least one of those meetings at a time when the public can look at the plans and offer feedback.
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Construction on the convention center could start as early as next spring, Glauser said.

The convention center would accommodate community meetings that have outgrown other buildings and attract business groups that periodically change meeting locales, he said. The ballroom would hold between 1,500 and 1,800 people.

Currently, Provo has the only full-service hotel in Utah County — the Marriott, Glauser said. County officials expect that a convention center in Provo's unique downtown would attract companies to the area.

"This will be another important element in revitalizing downtown Provo," Glauser said.

Initially, there was some concern among government officials and business leaders about building a convention center in Provo when the Embassy Suites and Convention Center is moving forward in Pleasant Grove. But White said the centers would appeal to different markets.

Richard Bradford, Pleasant Grove's director for economic development, said the convention centers will be "as different as apples and oranges."

The Embassy Suites and Convention Center will attract larger meetings with its larger convention space, Bradford said. The Provo center would appeal more to in-state, multi-state and regional conferences, Glauser said.

Financing for the Pleasant Grove conference center has been obtained and the project has gone out to bid, Bradford said. Construction likely will begin this summer and could be complete by spring 2011, he said.

The nine-story hotel and convention center is planned for the northeast corner of the intersection of I-15 and Pleasant Grove Boulevard. The center will be 100,000 square feet and include 280 guest suites, with a dining room capable of hosting 2,700 people, Bradford said.

E-MAIL: slenz@desnews.com

poodledoodledude
Jul 17, 2009, 11:16 PM
just go word from my hotel friends (and EXCELLENT customers) that they just broke ground for Marriott Townplace on 800 north in orem. they said it was a lower "quality" type hotel than the residence inn...meaning, i guess, not as many "stars" so to speak.

anyway, just thought i'd throw that out there...i know how much orem needs to get it's act together when it comes to development... :yuck:

poodledoodledude

delts145
Aug 1, 2009, 1:24 PM
North County Boulevard Opens

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/pleasant-grove/article_d4e75dec-d6f6-5467-995a-07ccc7e67744.html

Pleasant Grove - What began as a sketch on the back of napkin moved closer to reality on Friday as Morris Hodson became the first to cruise the new phase two of North Utah County Boulevard...

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/heraldextra.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/5/13/03b/51303b1b-b841-529a-b7f7-1a45102d007b.image.jpg?_dc=1249113657
Karen McCoy, of American Fork, drives her 1970 Dodge Challenger T/A down North County Boulevard arter its grand opening Friday, July 31, 2009. (Pic by Mark Johnston/Daily Herald)

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delts145
Aug 23, 2009, 1:06 PM
A BIG 'vision' for west of Utah Lake
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3482446292_69a6d80ac6_b.jpg
by mstrwhew

Utah County » 'Vision' shows freeways, bridges for 500,000 people.

By Brandon Loomis
The Salt Lake Tribune

Goshen » It's all greasewood and jackrabbits out here on Utah County's
"back 40," a lonely and lovely retreat for the old-fangled cowboy.

That's today. Folks around here know it can't last, and now there's
color-coded evidence: a map that heralds the coming wave of
suburban buckaroos in split-level ranches.

Utah Lake's great beyond is about to land on a transportation plan
that rolls out freeways and bridges for an expected desert land
rush by 500,000 or more people over the next half-century.

"I guess I'll have to head to Wyoming or Montana next," ranch manager
Rich Fowler said last week while mending a barbed-wire fence next
to a stock pond. He saw urban sprawl munch farms and ranches in
California and Nevada before the cowboy want ads brought him here.
He knows his cows stand in a freeway's path.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/0822/20090822__westlake_0823~2_300.jpg

Where most people see a placid reflection of Happy Valley on the
state's shallow freshwater sea, municipal planners see a chance to
cut and paste the civilized east shore onto the brushy west. If they're
right, the next generation in Utah's second-largest county will see
as many neighbors in the dry hills out west as currently gather
around Provo-Orem at the base of the Wasatch Mountains.

"This is really the only area in urban Utah that is undeveloped to
[this] degree," said Darrell Cook, chairman of metropolitan Utah
County's road-planning organization, Mountainland Association of Governments [MAG]. "We have, on a large scale, an opportunity
to do it right.

"That's a planner's dream."

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/0822/20090822__westlake_0823~6_GALLERY.jpg]
Open space along Highway 89 west of Utah Lake
could become a fond memory. Municipal planners have big designs for
the area in the coming decades, including north-south freeways and
bridges across the lake to handle a population of 500,000. (Francisco Kjolseth / The Salt Lake Tribune)


Vision of growth » Doing it right, in MAG's nearly completed
"West Lake Vision" plan, means building two bridges across the
25-mile-long lake and wrapping a freeway from Saratoga Springs to
Eagle Mountain and south to Goshen, then east to Interstate 15.
A beltway farther west would traverse the Cedar Valley, and a grid of collector highways would carve the Goshen and Cedar valleys.

The plan that MAG adopts this fall will inform its next official long-term
roads funding list, set for review in 2011.

It's a vision that makes sprawl fighters sigh. Planting essentially a
second Happy Valley west of the lake and serving it with freeways
just ensures a future of more smog and particulate pollution from
people who have to drive long distances for everything, Sierra Club
regional representative Marc Heileson said.

While Salt Lake County and now even eastern Utah County have
embraced light rail, commuter rail and clustered denser developments
around mass transit, he said, spreading asphalt beyond the lake would
"undo everything good that's happening."

"It is a new definition for bad planning," Heileson said. "It's like all
the mistakes that Los Angeles and Phoenix made" rolled into this plan.

The Sierra Club also balks at the bridges, which Heileson said would
stir up pollutants from the muck and then add a steady stream of
motor oil from the cars passing over.

Heileson said he doesn't believe things will work out as MAG envisions.
Any increase in air pollution would cut off federal transportation funding
that the county desperately needs, he said.

Cook disagrees. Air pollution would be worse if more people stacked
up against the Wasatch's granite wall, he said. And besides the freeways,
he expects the Utah Transit Authority will extend its railways into the
virgin territory. He hopes for job centers and colleges to keep the new residents near home.

The plan doesn't specify where newcomers will get their water. MAG
doesn't predict exactly when all of this will happen, though Cook said
30 to 40 years is a fair estimate.

Cedar Valley, Beyond Eagle Mtn. and Saratoga Springs lies the next metro land rush
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3642/3307772211_d00af620be_b.jpg
MMGoode

It's not going to be cheap.

"Billions, plural," Cook offers. It could cost the state $6 billion for
freeway construction alone, he said, not to mention engineering
miles-long bridges over the deep muck under the lake.

Compare that to the $1.7 billion that the Utah Department of
Transportation currently is spending to rebuild and widen I-15
past Provo.

"I really think [a West Lake highway system] will be the most
expensive expenditure the state will make over the next little
while," said Kent Millington, the Utah Transportation Commission
member who represents Utah County.

MAG's plan is important because it shows where the county, city
and state need to preserve highway rights of way against the
coming development, Millington said. And he believes it is coming
no matter what.

"If you look at what's happened just this decade in Eagle Mountain
and Saratoga Springs," he said, "that area has grown from a little
more than a few houses to 40,000 or 50,000 people out there."

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/44442327_707b8e11aa.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/32/44442328_5694d94e97.jpg
qb_56

The growth of those bedroom communities off the lake's northwest
shore has paced Utah's nation-leading population surge lately.
Planners expect a similar swell to round the lake's south end through
pastoral Goshen when Payson and Santaquin build out.

The strands of big beige stucco homes now flowing into Eagle
Mountain hay fields in the north eventually could fill in the back
side of the Lake Mountains.

There will be affordable lots for countless happy families, said
Eagle Mountain Mayor Heather Jackson, one of the city's earliest
pioneers when she and her husband bought a home 11 years ago.

Eagle Mountain is planning for MAG's vision. Even before the
"West Lake" plan, the city was zoning corridors for freeways. MAG's
map now lines up two future freeways with those protected rights
of way. There's also an east-west swath for what MAG calls a
"Pony Express Parkway" from Saratoga Springs to Eagle Mountain,
harking to the cities' place on the short-lived Old West mail route.

She's eager to make room for neighbors, especially if it means
building the critical mass for freeways and bridges to shorten the
drive to Orem. What took 30 minutes a decade ago now takes an
hour, she said.

"It greatly affects the quality of life right now," Jackson said.

All these lines on the map have a different meaning to cowboy Fowler.
They signal the death of another cow town. Goshen remains a weedy checkerboard of gravel roads and horse trailers, where the locals
safely erect a home-painted "Kids at Play" sign on the shoulder
without attracting highway code enforcers.

"I think it sucks," he said, grinning to show tobacco-stained teeth
and shrugging at the inevitable.

"Strip malls. Highways. They'll do it all here. Everybody who buys
these condos thinks their food comes from a grocery store."

Transportation commissioner Millington sympathizes. He watched
Orem's growth squeeze out prized orchards. But farmers line up to
sell when the price is right, he said, and they always find a new
valley.

"I still buy plenty of apples," he said. "I used to buy them from Orem.
Now I get them from somewhere else."

West Lake Vision
» 500,000 people west of Utah Lake

» Two freeway loops

» Two lake spans

» Urban masses in the Cedar and Goshen valleys
West Lake Vision
500,000 people west of Utah Lake

Two freeway loops

Two lake spans

Urban masses in the Cedar and Goshen valleys

Mount Nebo as seen from the Goshen Valley
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/3089104053_08cd871f6a_b.jpg
mstrwhew

Looking northeast from Goshen Valley
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/3185383344_53de064c02_b.jpg
mstrwhew

.

.

scottharding
Aug 23, 2009, 11:37 PM
That's very unfortunate. That plan is the very definiton of sprawl. There is much improvement that could occur with Orem, Provo, and Lehi, that could allow for denser, more sustainable living. The area around the East shore of the Lake, like the old Geneva site, hold great opportunities for growth and development. It's sad to me that even in times of recession and the all but dead housing market, the bad habits of sprawl still persist.

TonyAnderson
Aug 23, 2009, 11:58 PM
That's very unfortunate. That plan is the very definiton of sprawl. There is much improvement that could occur with Orem, Provo, and Lehi, that could allow for denser, more sustainable living. The area around the East shore of the Lake, like the old Geneva site, hold great opportunities for growth and development. It's sad to me that even in times of recession and the all but dead housing market, the bad habits of sprawl still persist.

Yeah I agree. I especially don't like the idea of bridges over Utah Lake.

urbanboy
Aug 24, 2009, 12:18 AM
She's eager to make room for neighbors, especially if it means
building the critical mass for freeways and bridges to shorten the
drive to Orem. What took 30 minutes a decade ago now takes an
hour, she said.

"It greatly affects the quality of life right now," Jackson said.



Idiot, if you work in Orem, then move to Orem!

All these lines on the map have a different meaning to cowboy Fowler.
They signal the death of another cow town. Goshen remains a weedy checkerboard of gravel roads and horse trailers, where the locals
safely erect a home-painted "Kids at Play" sign on the shoulder
without attracting highway code enforcers.

"I think it sucks," he said, grinning to show tobacco-stained teeth
and shrugging at the inevitable.


Seems like there is some bias going on in this article: Of course this guy has lost all credibility because he has "tabacco-stained teeth." :koko: Also, why is this possible sprawl "enevitable?"

Who said our mountains provide a natural urban growth boundary?! We need an urban growth boundary, and fast!!!

"Strip malls. Highways. They'll do it all here. Everybody who buys
these condos thinks their food comes from a grocery store."

Exactly! We're loosing farmland and open spaces here. The majority of people who will end up buying these plots of land for their single family home are likely not going to be growing their own food.

Transportation commissioner Millington sympathizes. He watched
Orem's growth squeeze out prized orchards. But farmers line up to
sell when the price is right, he said, and they always find a new
valley.

"I still buy plenty of apples," he said. "I used to buy them from Orem.
Now I get them from somewhere else."

And it will take even longer and use more gas miles to ship those apples to the local "farmer's markets" or grocery stores. :koko:

Orlando
Aug 24, 2009, 2:36 AM
:previous: I can't believe the ignorance of all these people pushing for living way out there. Please, someone with some power reign in these foresighted idiots!!!!!!!!! If you moved to Eagle Mountain because it was cheaper and you had more land you should have realized this also meant very long commutes. The planners and politicians who approved these developments out there should have realized the cost of utilities per one person is greatly increased. This is ignorant american unsustainable development!!!!!!!!!

delts145
Aug 26, 2009, 11:54 AM
Speedy bus lanes coming to Utah County


Transportation » Dedicated lanes will let passengers whiz past traffic.

By Patty Henetz
The Salt Lake Tribune

The roads most traveled in Provo and Orem are shaping up as a transit network that will allow residents, students and commuters to get around town and farther north along the Wasatch Front without getting into cars.

The Utah Transit Authority's FrontRunner trains soon will power up, but key to its success -- and getting more cars off University Parkway and University Avenue -- is a streamlined route for what's called Bus Rapid Transit (BRT).

"It will whiz by all the traffic," said Laynee Jones, a consulting engineer for the project.

Under the plan, passengers can go to BRT stops spaced every half-mile and catch a ride every five or 10 minutes, then coast along dedicated lanes to Utah Valley University, Brigham Young University, retail malls and the Novell campus.

The stops will resemble TRAX stations and provide the same kind of preboarding tickets. Because riders will pay in advance and the buses will have multiple doors, getting on and off will be faster than with conventional buses.

The ride will be smoother than a regular bus and the stations will have electronic signs telling passengers when the next bus arrives. "You don't even have to check a schedule," Jones said.

The BRT route will hit the high spots, possibly in 2012. From the FrontRunner station and Orem Intermodal Center on the west side of Interstate 15 across from UVU, the sleek buses will travel University Parkway to BYU and the proposed Southgate Center.

The cities' major malls will have stops as will Novell's campus at the East Bay Business Complex.

"We hook up UVU and BYU, then we also hook up the Provo Towne Centre mall and University Mall in Orem," said Hal Johnson, UTA's project manager. "A lot of what we're going after is the student market. They're great for us. They're consistent, they like transit, fits with their lifestyle."

Commuters are another prime target. While county leaders agree FrontRunner trains will be welcome, their parking lots are too small to handle the expected crowds. BRT's connections mean workers can get to the station from points closer to their homes.

Connecting UVU with the south side of Provo "kind of creates a nice arc," said Chad Eccles, transportation planner for the Mountainland Association of Governments. Because BRT will run alongside the urban traffic, Eccles said, "it markets itself."

Planners expect 13,000 riders on opening day, which has yet to be scheduled because the funding is in flux. Johnson said UTA hoped to find money in new sales-tax growth, but the past couple of years of economic disaster worked the other way.

Federal funding is an option, but the county would have to come up with at least 20 percent of the total cost, which has yet to be calculated. "It's kind of dictated by what the communities want," Johnson said.

One thing is sure: BRT will cost a lot less than light rail would have.

Although the costs for the nine-mile BRT route aren't yet solid, planners say the line could cost up to $280 million if the construction includes a dedicated lane through UVU and a BRT bridge over 800 South, which would ease traffic through that interchange.

By comparison, Johnson said, the seven-mile Mid-Jordan TRAX line cost $580 million, with taxpayers chipping in 20 percent to the federal government's 80 percent.

.

delts145
Sep 3, 2009, 11:58 AM
I-15 rebuild could extend to Spanish Fork

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705327491/I-15-rebuild-may-extend-to-Sp-Fork.html

SPRINGVILLE — City leaders are hopeful that an I-15 reconstruction project from American Fork to south Provo will extend past Springville and possibly reach Spanish Fork.

Work is set to begin in the spring on the section of I-15 between American Fork and Provo, I-15 Core project manager Dal Hawks told the Springville City Council on Tuesday. The flattening of asphalt prices could make extending the project further south possible, Hawks said...

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delts145
Sep 4, 2009, 11:30 AM
Microsoft shows off its new facility in Lehi

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705327757/Microsoft-shows-off-Lehi-facility.html

LEHI — When Microsoft debuts its Windows 7 software package next month, it will have virtual Utah fingerprints all over it.

The software giant, based in Redmond, Wash., on Thursday officially "opened" its research and development office at Thanksgiving Park by announcing that the operating system will be available to the general public on Oct. 29. The company has facilities in Lehi, Draper and Salt Lake City...

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MetroFanatic
Sep 4, 2009, 6:42 PM
^^^^
I'd imagine there are a lot of headaches in that office.

delts145
Sep 9, 2009, 12:49 PM
:banana: Construction to begin on hotel in Pleasant Grove:banana:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/pleasant-grove/article_bc4aea0e-9ddf-5530-ae06-942c0023d652.html

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2008_2nd/JQHEmbassySuites_PleasantGroveRendering.jpg

PLEASANT GROVE - In about seven days, construction should be underway on the long-anticipated Embassy Suites Hotel in Pleasant Grove....

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poodledoodledude
Sep 9, 2009, 8:47 PM
:banana: Construction to begin on hotel in Pleasant Grove:banana:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/pleasant-grove/article_bc4aea0e-9ddf-5530-ae06-942c0023d652.html

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2008_2nd/JQHEmbassySuites_PleasantGroveRendering.jpg

PLEASANT GROVE - In about seven days, construction should be underway on the long-anticipated Embassy Suites Hotel in Pleasant Grove....

.

i don't know HOW i feel about this development...i don't trust hammond. i've seen a lot of developments and projects fall through under his watch. also, i get nervous to see someone start a project with their own money, THINKING the funding was going to come through, only to find that it didn't...look at the MASSIVE elephant of a place on state street in orem...and now there it sits. so, my next question is: does he have ENOUGH funding to FINISH the project, or just get it started? what if funding DOESN'T come through...are we going to have a HUGE unfinished building sitting there?

so, when hammond says, he BELIEVES he's found funding....i just don't TRUST that. lets hope it get up, FINISHED and going soon.

also, to me, this project needs to be DOWNTOWN....ANYWHERE. i think it contributes to that URBAN sprawl we all talk about. i hope this gets PROVO on the ball to build it's convention center SOONER rather than LATER to compete. let's hope FUNDING for that goes SMOOTHLY too.

also, saw the conceptual design for provo's. NICE...

poodledoodledude

TonyAnderson
Sep 9, 2009, 11:29 PM
also, saw the conceptual design for provo's. NICE...

poodledoodledude

Any details you'd like to share?

acw007
Sep 10, 2009, 2:24 AM
:banana: Construction to begin on hotel in Pleasant Grove:banana:

http://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/north/pleasant-grove/article_bc4aea0e-9ddf-5530-ae06-942c0023d652.html

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2008_2nd/JQHEmbassySuites_PleasantGroveRendering.jpg

PLEASANT GROVE - In about seven days, construction should be underway on the long-anticipated Embassy Suites Hotel in Pleasant Grove....

.

Holy recycled deign. The Embassy Suites Loveland:
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2009_2nd/HammonsEmbassySuitesLovelandColo.jpg
I'm not a John Hammons Fan.

jedikermit
Sep 10, 2009, 2:51 AM
Poodle, I'm with you on this one...Pleasant Grove isn't the place for this development. Sprawly-sprawlerson.

esirhgih
Sep 10, 2009, 3:47 PM
Holy recycled deign. The Embassy Suites Loveland:
http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2009_2nd/HammonsEmbassySuitesLovelandColo.jpg
I'm not a John Hammons Fan.

Even the cars in the parking lot are the same.:)

poodledoodledude
Sep 10, 2009, 10:59 PM
well, isn't that interesting?! the SAME building, SAME cars...only the one in PG is ONE story taller! this is going to be interesting....

trust hammond to do this...not that its WRONG, or CRAZY, but to lead people on as if they had to "change the design" and go through an additional "process" because of seismic issues is well: :koko: and :lmao:

so, here we are patiently waiting, thinking they've had to change the design for US, knowing FULL WELL they were going to use a plan already PLANNED?!

hhhmmm...one more reason NOT to trust hammond and Co.

as for the plans for provo's convention center, it's a three story glass/brick mix. it has a block offset design, so it's not just a STRAIGHT wall going up 70 feet, but it's blocky...like the old zions bank building BEFORE they changed the design. it's bigger than it looks.

sometimes i wonder how they fit these big buidlings on such SMALL plots of land...but they have. the zions and wells fargo centers have BOTH surprised me when it comes to their size. so, this will be no different. i look at the land and think: gosh, how are they going to FIT that in there? but, they do, and they have LOTS of space.

poodledoodledude

Orlando
Sep 11, 2009, 12:04 AM
:previous: Do you remember who the architects that are designing the new convention center in downtown Provo? Is there a rendering available somewhere?

TonyAnderson
Sep 11, 2009, 1:43 AM
well, isn't that interesting?! the SAME building, SAME cars...only the one in PG is ONE story taller! this is going to be interesting....

trust hammond to do this...not that its WRONG, or CRAZY, but to lead people on as if they had to "change the design" and go through an additional "process" because of seismic issues is well: :koko: and :lmao:

so, here we are patiently waiting, thinking they've had to change the design for US, knowing FULL WELL they were going to use a plan already PLANNED?!

hhhmmm...one more reason NOT to trust hammond and Co.

as for the plans for provo's convention center, it's a three story glass/brick mix. it has a block offset design, so it's not just a STRAIGHT wall going up 70 feet, but it's blocky...like the old zions bank building BEFORE they changed the design. it's bigger than it looks.

sometimes i wonder how they fit these big buidlings on such SMALL plots of land...but they have. the zions and wells fargo centers have BOTH surprised me when it comes to their size. so, this will be no different. i look at the land and think: gosh, how are they going to FIT that in there? but, they do, and they have LOTS of space.

poodledoodledude

I remember reading it was 3 stories, but a very tall 3 stories. Also, do you know the address where it's being built? I forgot.

delts145
Sep 12, 2009, 10:54 AM
It's being built at the northeast corner of that fancy new I-15 interchange at Pleasant Grove. You know, the one with all of the landscaping and fountains. I noticed yesterday that there's been quite a bit of commercial and condo building going on around that junction.

delts145
Sep 12, 2009, 11:03 AM
Something BIG and very secret???

Secrecy surrounds Utah County industrial development

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705329344/Secrecy-surrounds-development.html

ELBERTA — A cloak of secrecy continues to surround plans for an apparent industrial complex near this rural south Utah County town.

Utah County Commissioners, state economic officials and others involved in the project have signed an agreement of confidentiality regarding the plans near the Kern River gas line while the details are worked out...

...Local farmers and ranchers have watched as work crews put in a well large enough to supply the needs for a small city. The crews worked on it night and day until it was finished, one rancher said...

.

Future Mayor
Sep 14, 2009, 7:14 PM
I have been in a couple of meetings that discussed the above project. The meetings have been very interesting and it will be quite to facility when completed to full expected capacity.

I of course have a lot of mixed feelings regarding placing such a facility in the perceived middle of nowhere.

delts145
Sep 14, 2009, 10:47 PM
So then, are you sworn to secrecy Future Mayor? Can you give us a hint of some kind? Why is it all so secretive???

Future Mayor
Sep 15, 2009, 9:54 PM
I have not been informed of the company that is looking at the site but last I heard from the property owners and the planning firm that has worked on a master plan for the area, there are two sites the company is considering and the Utah site is looking to have about an 85% chance of being the site selected.

All I will pass on is that there was a property owner that owned a very large parcel or collection of parcels in the area, the property is located adjacent to a natural gas transmission pipe as well as a Rocky Mtn Power transmission line. All these items were essential for the company looking to expand with a new manufacturing facility in the Western United states.

It will be a clean facility with nearly zero emissions and will employ nearly 700 people (if I recall correctly) at full build out. The facility will utilize a large % of train delivering and shipping for it's on time manufacturing process.

Was that enough detail while still remaining completely vague? :haha:

TonyAnderson
Sep 15, 2009, 11:25 PM
:previous:

Well I know you were working in Payson...So I'd venture in the vicinity there. But not sure.

TonyAnderson
Sep 16, 2009, 3:24 AM
Sep 15, 6:49 PM EDT

Adobe to buy Omniture for $1.8B; 3Q profit slides

By BARBARA ORTUTAY
AP Technology Writer
Advertisement

NEW YORK (AP) -- Adobe Systems Inc. said Tuesday it will buy Web analytic software company Omniture Inc. for about $1.8 billion, giving the maker of content-creation software a way to let marketers measure the effectiveness of such content.

San Jose, Calif.-based Adobe, which makes Flash, Acrobat and Photoshop software, said it will buy Omniture for $21.50 per share in cash, a premium of 24 percent to Omniture's closing stock price Tuesday. Omniture shares jumped nearly 26 percent in extended trading.

The announcement came as Adobe said it earned $136 million, or 26 cents per share, in the fiscal third quarter that ended in August, down 29 percent from the same time a year earlier.

Excluding one-time items, Adobe earned 35 cents per share, a penny above what analysts polled by Thomson Reuters were expecting.

Revenue fell 21 percent to $697.5 million, inching past analyst expectations of $686.2 million.

The recession has slowed demand for Creative Suite 4, the most recent version of the software package that brings in the bulk of the company's revenue. But analysts say this will likely mean more pent-up demand for Creative Suite 5 when it launches.

For the current quarter, Adobe forecast earnings of 23 cents to 29 cents per share and adjusted earnings of 33 cents to 39 cents per share. The latter compares with analyst expectations of 37 cents per share.

Adobe expects sales of $690 million to $740 million for the quarter, bracketing Wall Street's estimates of $719.2 million.

Omniture, based in Orem, Utah, offers a variety of Web traffic analysis and other products for companies to improve their marketing over the Internet. Its customers include Apple Inc., Time Warner Inc. and Walt Disney Co.

The acquisition would marry Omniture's services for figuring how to best deliver messages with Flash and other Adobe tools for creating Web sites and ads. Omniture services could then be used to monitor how effective the messages are.

"Adobe's Creative Suite products and Flash platform help customers create and deliver engaging experiences. The addition of Omniture's online marketing suite will help customers measure, analyze and optimize the impact and value of those experiences," said Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen in a conference call with analysts.

Trip Chowdhry, an analyst with Global Equities Research, said the deal would allow Adobe to create new streams of revenue even as its existing businesses face a decline. The recession and the corresponding decline in technology spending has hurt Adobe's profit and revenue, as many companies have put off upgrading costly software packages.

Though he called the deal "very timely," Chowdhry believes Adobe is overpaying for Omniture, especially because that company's paid products have been losing market share to Google's analytics service, which is free. He said $12 to $13 per share - rather than $21.50 - would have been a fair value for the company.

Adobe expects the Omniture deal to close by November. The company will operate separately under Adobe as a new business unit, with Omniture CEO Josh James working as senior vice president reporting to Narayen.

Adobe's shares took a hit in after-hours trading, falling $1.64, or 4.6 percent, to $33.98. The stock had closed regular trading up 43 cents at $35.62 before the report.

Omniture's shares, meanwhile, soared $4.47, or 25.8 percent, to $21.79 after-hours. The stock closed earlier at $17.33, up 33 cents.

delts145
Sep 16, 2009, 11:06 AM
$1.8B deal may mean Omniture expansion


Business » Adobe pact to be biggest high-tech acquisition in Utah.

By Tom Harvey
The Salt Lake Tribune

Adobe Systems Inc.'s offer to buy Omniture Inc. of Orem for $1.8 billion should mean accelerated growth for the largest high-tech company headquartered in Utah.

Adobe said Tuesday it is willing to pay a premium price to acquire Omniture in the biggest high-tech deal in state history. If the transaction closes during the fourth quarter as expected, Omniture will become a new business unit within Adobe but remain in Utah.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/0915/20090915__biz_omniture_0916~3_GALLERY.jpg
Omniture CEO Josh James said Adobe's planned acquisition should allow Omniture to more quickly reach its goal of a billion dollars of revenue a year. It had about $350 million in revenue in 2008. (Al Hartmann/The Salt Lake Tribune)

Omniture co-founder and CEO Josh James is to join Adobe as senior vice president of the new business unit. James said Tuesday that the acquisition should allow Omniture to more quickly reach its goal of a billion dollars of revenue a year. It had about $350 million in revenue in 2008.

"They're one of the largest software companies in the world, and this is going to be one of the largest parts of their business and one of fastest growing parts of their business," James said. "So they're going to actually invest in and really grow this business."

That expansion should mean additional employees in the future, he said of the company that employs 600 or so people in Orem and 1,200 worldwide.

"We're going to continue to grow rapidly and right here in Utah," said James, who cofounded the company in 1996 while a student at Brigham Young University.

Adobe is offering $21.50 a share cash for the Utah company, about 24 percent above its closing price on Tuesday.

Sasa Zorovic, an analyst at Janney Montgomery Scott LLC in Boston, called the sale price a "very generous offer."

"Adobe may be paying a premium for Omniture, but the deal makes sense," said Zorovic. "From the perspective of Web designers [using Adobe's products], many will be very interested in seeing how their work is performing."

Omniture has been the fastest-growing or second-fastest publicly traded U.S. software company the past three years, James said. It is the leading company for software tools and services to track Web page traffic and improve online marketing. Among its customers are eBay, Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Neiman Marcus, Oracle and Sony.

Adobe is best known for its graphics design tools that include Illustrator; its Flash software that allows videos, animation and interactive elements to be placed on and viewed over the Web; and for Photoshop, its digital photograph processing software. Web page builders turn to Adobe for design tools that include DreamWeaver, another of its acquisitions.

In a conference call with analysts and the news media, Adobe President and CEO Shantanu Narayen said the deal made sense for his company because customers who buy its software tools to create Web sites were demanding ways to measure how effective they are in selling goods and services.

"What is interesting is a number of these companies actually wanted us to integrate with these solutions like Omniture," Narayen said.

He also said the cultures of the two companies were similar, making for an easier merger.

"One of the very attractive parts [of Omniture] is the people and the culture," he said. "They have a real passion for solving company problems, a history of delivering innovative products."

James said he felt comfortable that Omniture employees would continue to have a good environment. Adobe was No. 11 on the Fortune 100 list of best places to work, he said.

"That's really important for me in this type of a combination. One of the things you value is taking care of your people."

Narayen declined to comment on whether there were other bids for the company.

If the deal closes, it will leave James with $25.4 million for his 1.18 million shares of Omniture.

"They want me to keep running this business," he said. "They want our people to keep running this business."

The announcement came after the close of the markets on Tuesday. Omniture's shares finished at $17.32 Tuesday, then soared $4.47, or 25.8 percent, to $21.79 in after-hours trading.

Adobe's shares took a hit in after-hours trading, falling $1.50, or 4.2 percent, to $34.12. The stock had closed at $35.62 in regular trading earlier Tuesday.

Reporter Steve Oberbeck contributed to this story.

.

delts145
Sep 16, 2009, 11:12 AM
Omniture deal a milestone for Utah's tech sector

Acquisition » The $1.8 billion price tag would make it the largest such deal in the state's history.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13344725

..."This acquisition clearly shows Utah has companies and technologies that are of interest to large corporations," said Dinesh Patel, managing director of V-Spring Capital, a venture capital company with headquarters in Salt Lake City. "It speaks well of our entrepreneurs." ...

Future Mayor
Sep 16, 2009, 5:36 PM
:previous:

Well I know you were working in Payson...So I'd venture in the vicinity there. But not sure.

The article does say Elberta, which is west in Southern Utah county, and they were meeting with surrounding cities and towns that could experience effects, both positive and negative from the project.

jtrent77
Sep 17, 2009, 1:01 AM
So I can already guess most forummers thoughts on this matter; I don't really know where I stand right now--either way don't shoot the messenger.

Another bridge proposed over Utah Lake.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705330564/Bridge-over-Utah-Lake-proposed.html

delts145
Sep 17, 2009, 10:52 AM
Well, it's better than a causeway, but if it's going to look so completely utilitarian, I would just as soon it never happen. I'm just afraid that the population of Utah Valley is only going to continue to boom, and so called progress will demand it. Unfortunately, they'll probably allow a bridge with supports as visually ugly as this picture shows.

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1794923.jpg
A proposed bridge on Utah Lake would span from 800 North in Orem to Redwood Road in Saratoga Springs.

.

Orlando
Sep 17, 2009, 11:17 PM
:previous: If I were living in Utah, and paying taxes to build that bridge to bail out all those people who decided to live way out on the other side, I'ld be upset. There is so much land available on the east side of the lake. that it was never necessary to build out there. Delts, it really isn't necessary. In this case, necessary is a term that the east siders would use. I would just tell them, you made the decision to live over there, now deal with it. They shouldn't expect other taxpayers to bail them out like this. This is one of the reasons I don't live in Utah. It's this ignorant sprawl mentality. It's because there was no control on sprawl development that occured out there in the dessert.

jtrent77
Sep 18, 2009, 12:01 AM
:previous: If I were living in Utah, and paying taxes to build that bridge to bail out all those people who decided to live way out on the other side, I'ld be upset. There is so much land available on the east side of the lake. that it was never necessary to build out there. Delts, it really isn't necessary. In this case, necessary is a term that the east siders would use. I would just tell them, you made the decision to live over there, now deal with it. They shouldn't expect other taxpayers to bail them out like this. This is one of the reasons I don't live in Utah. It's this ignorant sprawl mentality. It's because there was no control on sprawl development that occured out there in the dessert. Sprawl is ignorance and envronmentally wrong!

Before you insert your foot further down your throat, you should read the article...it is a private company that wants to build the bridge, not tax payers--in fact they would be paying the state to lease the area to build it.

Secondly, I've noticed a lot of people like to complain about sprawl on here. While Utah definitely has some sprawl, part of that is because the population base isn't yet to the point that people want to build up enough yet. Out here on the east coast people may not call it sprawl, yet there is pretty much constant city from DC to Boston along the 95 corridor, I really don't see it as a whole lot different; as Utah continues to grow people will get more sick of dealing with traffic and then at that point they will go up more. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither were highrises. (and before all the anti-sprawlers hate me, yes I know you hate it, but you have to accept that others don't always share the same mentality, hence why they live out in the boondocks and you live downtown).

WeST
Sep 18, 2009, 2:28 AM
jtrent77 you are right with your analysis. My complaint is mostly about aesthetics and recreation. That bridge is horrible and would permanently setback the comeback of Utah Lake. Further, the area around that part of the lake would be forever blighted. If this was going to happen and I couldn't stop it, I would at least like to see that a certain percentage of the toll would go toward eventually light rail. Also, I think the private developer should be required to include a bike lane along the bridge (I think it shows a 8' pedestrian walkway. What about requiring there to be fewer pillars?

I hope this bridge is never built. It would forever be a black eye on this lake that has a lot of potential.

jtrent77
Sep 18, 2009, 2:57 AM
jtrent77 you are right with your analysis. My complaint is mostly about aesthetics and recreation. That bridge is horrible and would permanently setback the comeback of Utah Lake. Further, the area around that part of the lake would be forever blighted. If this was going to happen and I couldn't stop it, I would at least like to see that a certain percentage of the toll would go toward eventually light rail. Also, I think the private developer should be required to include a bike lane along the bridge (I think it shows a 8' pedestrian walkway. What about requiring there to be fewer pillars?

I hope this bridge is never built. It would forever be a black eye on this lake that has a lot of potential.

I totally agree with the light rail idea. As far as it being built, the bridge has been talked about for quite a while, I don't see it coming anytime soon. If it does I also hope it will have a better aesthetic than the image gives.

Orlando
Sep 18, 2009, 4:54 AM
Before you insert your foot further down your throat, you should read the article...it is a private company that wants to build the bridge, not tax payers--in fact they would be paying the state to lease the area to build it.

Secondly, I've noticed a lot of people like to complain about sprawl on here. While Utah definitely has some sprawl, part of that is because the population base isn't yet to the point that people want to build up enough yet. Out here on the east coast people may not call it sprawl, yet there is pretty much constant city from DC to Boston along the 95 corridor, I really don't see it as a whole lot different; as Utah continues to grow people will get more sick of dealing with traffic and then at that point they will go up more. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither were highrises. (and before all the anti-sprawlers hate me, yes I know you hate it, but you have to accept that others don't always share the same mentality, hence why they live out in the boondocks and you live downtown).

:previous: Harsh words! The bridge is not necessary, and is environmentally and aesthetically unpleasing. It's not like you're trying to bridge the San Francisco bay to connect Oakland to San Fran.

Also, the East coast magalopolis is not sprawl like it is here. The northeast coast cities are huge and densely populated, and have a lot higher population density outside the cities in general. Utah people mostly live in a low-density, semi-arid climate. There is a ton of space to develop in and around nearby cities. It takes public money to build roads, utilities, provide water, and other services. It takes even more money per capita, the more spread out we are from each other. How can we sustain a continuing trend like that in this climate. Have you heard the prediction timelines of environmental catastrophies if American or western consumerism doesn't change? Please, just don't get all defensive here. Try to learn and be open that current trends need to improve. Thanks for correcting me on the funding of the bridge.

WeST
Sep 18, 2009, 5:39 AM
:previous: Harsh words! The bridge idea is a foolish idea brought about by ignorance about the environment and urban planning. It was never necessary, and is environmentally and aesthetically unpleasing. It's not like you're trying to bridge the San Francisco bay to connect Oakland to San Fran.

The East coast magalopolis is not sprawl like it is here. The cities are huge and densely populated, and have a lot higher population density outside the cities in general. Utah people mostly live in a low-density, semi-arid, dessert climate. There is a ton of space to develop in and around nearby cities. In fact, our cities are very low-density in comparison. It takes public money to build roads, utilities, provide water, and other services. It takes even more money per capita, the more spread out we are from each other. How can we sustain a continuing trend like that in this climate. Have you heard the prediction timelines of environmental catastrophies if American or western consumerism doesn't change? Please, just don't get all defensive here. Try to learn and be open that current trends need to improve.

I think the hysteria around sprawl and its negative consequences is very over played. I am against sprawl when it is subsidized by others, but fully defend peoples right to move and live where they wish. Most of the land that sprawl impacts is marginal and not worth much effort to save. We have saved much of the critical lands in Utah. Where there are highly sensitive land (like along the Jordan River or Utah Lake), then I support public and private efforts to preserve it.

Again, I hope that bridge is never constructed because it is ugly and will do nothing to renew Utah Lake. I hope Utah County officials remember that the greatest natural asset they have is that lake and if they renew it right, they can make Utah County a much more desirable place to live. I find it funny that many people seem to move out there in part because of the nice view of the lake, but don't seem to see how that abomination will damage that asset.

Orlando
Sep 18, 2009, 5:57 AM
I think the hysteria around sprawl and its negative consequences is very over played. I am against sprawl when it is subsidized by others, but fully defend peoples right to move and live where they wish. Most of the land that sprawl impacts is marginal and not worth much effort to save. We have saved much of the critical lands in Utah. Where there are highly sensitive land (like along the Jordan River or Utah Lake), then I support public and private efforts to preserve it.



There are two arguments you present here that 1) people should have the right to live anywhere they want, and 2) we have crappy desert land and we have protected what little environmentally sensitive land we do have. So why not sprawl all over?

Here are the problems with both of these arguments:
1) Yes, of course people should have the right to live anywhere. However, there are consequences for doing so, and people need to take responsibility for their poor choices. You should have expected that thousands of others will move out there too, and your commute time will double to get anywhere. Your taxes should increase because it cost more to supply you with all the infrastructure most others who live closer in have. Their is little responsibility and collective planning. It's chaos with each person who owns land wanting to do whatever and wherever.

2) We have lots of dessert out ther for endless sprawl, right? But, we don't have an endless amount of water supply. To live in a single-family subdivision so far from the major centers of employment, etc. means more car travel time, means more gas, means more roads, means a whole lot of time driving, and little to no pedestrian connectivity in your neighborhood to services, food, etc. Envision Utah is trying to educate people the benefits of living more connected.

jtrent77
Sep 18, 2009, 8:30 AM
:previous: Harsh words! The bridge is not necessary, and is environmentally and aesthetically unpleasing. It's not like you're trying to bridge the San Francisco bay to connect Oakland to San Fran.

Also, the East coast magalopolis is not sprawl like it is here. The northeast coast cities are huge and densely populated, and have a lot higher population density outside the cities in general. Utah people mostly live in a low-density, semi-arid climate. There is a ton of space to develop in and around nearby cities. It takes public money to build roads, utilities, provide water, and other services. It takes even more money per capita, the more spread out we are from each other. How can we sustain a continuing trend like that in this climate. Have you heard the prediction timelines of environmental catastrophies if American or western consumerism doesn't change? Please, just don't get all defensive here. Try to learn and be open that current trends need to improve. Thanks for correcting me on the funding of the bridge.

The harsh words were only because you jumped on tax payers and their mentality without looking it first.

As far as the East coast megapolis, yes the areas in between are more densely populated...but it is still sprawl. Plus Utah was settled (by those of European descent anyway) in 1847 with comparatively small numbers. Even with the great Mormon migration, the immigration to the state is comparatively small to the immigration of people to the Eastern states which started their settling in roughly 1600. So I figure Utah has at least 250 years to produce that greater density (note I am not saying that the East coast was sprawling and grew up into dense sprawl, I realize that it developed as cities and sprawl only comes with faster means of travel).

Don't get me wrong, I think there should probably be more planned efforts than what there is, but I think sometimes people are over the top in their anti-sprawl mentality (this is not a personal attack, just something I have been generally aware of on here)

jedikermit
Sep 18, 2009, 11:49 AM
Here are the problems with both of these arguments:
1) Yes, of course people should have the right to live anywhere. However, there are consequences for doing so, and people need to take responsibility for their poor choices. You should have expected that thousands of others will move out there too, and your commute time will double to get anywhere. Your taxes should increase because it cost more to supply you with all the infrastructure most others who live closer in have. Their is little responsibility and collective planning. It's chaos with each person who owns land wanting to do whatever and wherever.

2) We have lots of dessert out ther for endless sprawl, right? But, we don't have an endless amount of water supply? To live in a single-family subdivision so far from the major centers of employment, etc. means more car travel time, means more gas, means more roads, means a whole lot of time driving, and little no pedestrian connectivity in your neighborhood to services, food, etc. Envision Utah is trying to educate people the benefits of living more connected.

I agree with both of these arguments. The people who moved to Saratoga Springs and Eagle Mountain and the other West-of-Utah Lake communities over the last several years did it to "get away from it all." Now that they're away from it all and they want a bridge to get back to it all, that's their problem. It would be like me moving to Tooele and demanding a tunnel through the Oquirrh Mountains so I could get to my job in South Jordan more quickly. There are consequences to moving to certain locations. You move to Park City, it'll snow on you more. You move to Saratoga Springs, it'll take you longer to get to Provo. There's a big ol' lake in the middle of your commute. You knew that when you moved there. It's probably part of why you moved there. Suck it up.

jedikermit
Sep 18, 2009, 11:51 AM
I do like the idea of a privately operated toll bridge more than one built by taxpayers...although I'd want some strict regulation on how the bridge would be built to benefit future light rail/mass transit opportunities and to minimize environmental impact. On the whole, though, the entire mess seems unnecessary.

jtrent77
Sep 20, 2009, 3:20 PM
In the ongoing saga...

Saratoga Springs Mayor opposes bridge (http://heraldextra.com/news/local/north/saratoga-springs/article_4e40bd5c-adda-5d01-a1f1-2c876a20f116.html)

I tend to agree that this isn't the right solution right now, for many many reasons. I would be more in favor of cleaning up the lake quite a bit and then putting a ferry in and charging a bit more than the suggested $2-$3 for it.

Happy Valley Freak
Sep 22, 2009, 5:25 PM
Well, it's better than a causeway, but if it's going to look so completely utilitarian, I would just as soon it never happen. I'm just afraid that the population of Utah Valley is only going to continue to boom, and so called progress will demand it. Unfortunately, they'll probably allow a bridge with supports as visually ugly as this picture shows.

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1794923.jpg
A proposed bridge on Utah Lake would span from 800 North in Orem to Redwood Road in Saratoga Springs.

.
:yuck: Ugh. I agree that these people don't deserve to be bailed out. They chose to live out there, and they couldn't have thought it would be easy to get to the other side of the valley with that lake in the way. Nevertheless, I think people are gonna whine and moan until something is done about the traffic. If something does get built across that lake, I hope to god it isn't that piece of crap! I hate that their idea of a bridge is an OVER PASS on steriods! Even though I don't think it's the best idea, if they're gonna build a bridge, don't build one that looks like S*#T

East2Westback
Sep 23, 2009, 7:37 PM
Well, it's better than a causeway, but if it's going to look so completely utilitarian, I would just as soon it never happen. I'm just afraid that the population of Utah Valley is only going to continue to boom, and so called progress will demand it. Unfortunately, they'll probably allow a bridge with supports as visually ugly as this picture shows.

http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/midres/1794923.jpg
A proposed bridge on Utah Lake would span from 800 North in Orem to Redwood Road in Saratoga Springs.

.

Looks cool and interesting but it looks REALLY EXPENSIVE. You are not exactly going to SF from Oakland at a 1930's cost.

Again what is the cost and effect value? What exactly would building this bridge really accomplish?

delts145
Sep 23, 2009, 9:03 PM
I guess Rick that someday there will be 500,000-plus people over on the west side, but it seems to me that the developers are pushing that 'if you build it they will come theory.' I would rather they continue to restore Utah Lake to it's pristine beauty, and leave it untouched by an obtrusive bridge. I have nothing against people wanting to live on the other side of the Lake or in Cedar Valley. I just think they should do so with the understanding that it will take them longer to commute, if they choose to live in Eagle Mtn. or Saratoga Springs, and work in Provo.

There's still allot of room for growth between Nephi and Provo. If places such as Santaquin should be developed, then Nephi Valley makes an excellent Valley for orchards, just as Santaquin did as a replacement for the orchards of Orem. There are actually more fruit trees in Utah Valley now than in the days of the Orem orchards.

Utah Lake is the largest natural fresh water lake in the West. It has the potential to be an amazing urban jewel, if restoration continues as planned. IMO, it would be a shame to let the developers run over it in the name of housing profits.

John Martin
Sep 23, 2009, 9:41 PM
I see no reason not to wait for the supposed 500,000 people to live on the west side of the lake before they consider building a bridge. I mean, it's a bridge going over a lake, not a major freeway going through peoples' properties, it doesn't need to be planned decades before the area booms. It can be built whenever they want, the water can't stop them. The only reason to do a project like this in the next few years (that I can think of) would be that it might entice people to actually consider living in the area (benefiting the developers, and the developers only), and perhaps that it might cost a little less now than later, but don't think either of those reasons are good enough to justify it.

urbanboy
Sep 24, 2009, 12:14 AM
I see no reason not to wait for the supposed 500,000 people to live on the west side of the lake before they consider building a bridge. I mean, it's a bridge going over a lake, not a major freeway going through peoples' properties, it doesn't need to be planned decades before the area booms. It can be built whenever they want, the water can't stop them. The only reason to do a project like this in the next few years (that I can think of) would be that it might entice people to actually consider living in the area (benefiting the developers, and the developers only), and perhaps that it might cost a little less now than later, but don't think either of those reasons are good enough to justify it.

Well said!

Wasatch_One
Sep 24, 2009, 1:54 AM
Im not sure if I am for or against this yet. If built, I agree with the necessity of an eventual mass transit expansion option. And I say they build it from the airport (center st in Provo) or at least Univ Parkway in Orem. 800 N in Orem seems too far north on the east side of Utah Lake.