[Alva360]

This is the exact reason why this city cannot prosper like all other major cities across Canada......

You can't hang on to everything from the past, well actually that’s not true…… you can, but unless you want to continue living in the past.

Yes, we have a lot of history here in this Province/City but there is just some thing’s you need to let go of and move on. Create new beginnings/history. Always keep the past close to your heart, the memories will be there forever. Plus it is not like we don't have museums and other places within the City/Province to show our past heritage.

Anyways, that's just my opinion.

[murman]

The developer is comfortable with this scale of building and they will not be condos as the freeps also stated, they will be apartments.

Get your terminology right.

An apartment can be a condo, and it can be a rental. Apartment is the form of structure, not the tenure.

Structure: apartment, townhouse, duplex, single-family dwelling, etc.

Tenure: rental, condo, freehold, leasehold, co-op, etc.

[Boreal]

I do like the concept very much. Especially the fact that it lies outside the historic areal. Very nice. I hope it gets the green light.

[Marc B.]

Thanks for posting the rendering c vist. I like the proposed market building and the reconstructed gate on the south end. Seems like it has the best elements of the three proposals at the most appropriate scale for that location. Who is the architect?

Out of curiosity, is Fort Garry Place all condo or are there rental units in it?

[RAFS]

Thanks for posting the rendering c vist. I like the proposed market building and the reconstructed gate on the south end. Seems like it has the best elements of the three proposals at the most appropriate scale for that location. Who is the architect?

Out of curiosity, is Fort Garry Place all condo or are there rental units in it?

All rental, I believe.

[Biff]

WTF? I missed the sneak peak. Damn i was off for half an hour...damn you work....damn yoooouuuuuu

No really...

[c vist]

It's not a secret anymore and will be on TV tonight ... the selected 100 Main proposal is

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100MainC.jpg

You will see that the article in the freeps shows the Friends of UFG are misinformed ... the proposed residential tower is outside the historic fort and the plan is to allow the development of an interpretive park on that property and the building at 100 Main is up for negotiation.

Some views:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100mainB.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100MainA.jpg

The developer is comfortable with this scale of building and they will not be condos as the freeps also stated, they will be rental apartments.

[Biff]

Beautiful proposal! It looks like a good mix for the site. Glad to see not every building in this city has to be Condo. I can't wait to hear more about it.

[drew]

Is that building at top left side (big white rectangle on the plan) the existing curling club - or the existing city building?

[RAFS]

Is that building at top left side (big white rectangle on the plan) the existing curling club - or the existing city building?

Curling club.

[Biff]

double post

[WpG_GuY]

Im kind of disappointed they are not condos. I was very interested in moving into this development as it’s a stones throw away from work, I could go home and sleep on breaks lol. Apartments though, not so good, id rather my monthly payment went towards paying off a mortgage as opposed to rent.

[Alva360]

It's no doubt a nice looking project proposal, however I would have liked to see a new tallest tower there instead.......

[RUEHLE-DESIGN]

NOT BAD

I was hoping for the tower, but this certainly will do nicely, and maybe if something else comes to the table they can slate it for a new tallest in one of our cities numerous other downtown empty lots!!!

[trueviking]

http://www.bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/new_refrig_at_home_2.jpg

i cant believe that they can make rentals viable financially....they must know something the rest of the development community doesnt.

[c vist]

i cant believe that they can make rentals viable financially....they must know something the rest of the development community doesnt.
The Developer pretty much only does rentals and they are not sub-standard housing either, and they also maintain their properties. I'm working with the developer on another property they aquired from the City and the plan is for 4 phases of 6 storey apartments that will have up to 440 units. Our office today went from extremely busy to uncontrollably busy.

[WpG_GuY]

Compromise on Upper Fort Garry site


Updated at 12:08 PM

By Bartley Kives



In decision aimed at pleasing both developers and heritage proponents, the city has laid the groundwork for both a new residential building and a heritage park in and around the former site of Upper Fort Garry.
On Thursday morning, city council’s downtown development committee approved the sale of surplus land adjacent to the fort’s old footprint to Crystal Developers, which plans to build a 15-storey apartment building.

That structure would go up on the current site of a parking lot, immediately southwest of the former fort’s footprint. Meanwhile, the city will pursue a plan to develop a heritage park on the rest of the surplus land.

This plan would protect Upper Fort Garry’s North Gate, the sole remaining structure from the fort that stood from 1834 to 1882 at what is now Main Street, south of Broadway.

Architect Friesen Tokar envisions a garden at the north end of the revitalized site, an interpretive centre on the main floor of a former Public Works building at 100 Main Street and a farmers’ market to the west of that structure.

A group called Friends of Upper Fort Garry Gate had sought the entire site, including the non-historic southwest portion for a heritage park.
Coun. Russ Wyatt, the downtown development chair, said the decision makes room for a compromise.

[Biff]

http://www.bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/new_refrig_at_home_2.jpg

i cant believe that they can make rentals viable financially....they must know something the rest of the development community doesnt.

What is with the fridge pic?

[waffler]

hopefully this will be done by sept 08!

[trueviking]

just a joke.....it kind of has the massing of a frigidaire.

[fengshui]

hopefully this will be done by sept 08!
This was only the Standing Committee on Downtown Development - it has to go to Executive Committee, then Council before being approved

[Archiseek]

the building isnt great looking but this is clearly a sketch proposal - i like the plan for the space around it

[trueviking]

i like the market idea for the existing building, but part of me wants that building to be gone completely....it would open up the park space to the gate.

[Biff]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100mainB.jpg




Is that a "Green" roof on that building. It appears that they are going for some level of LEED.

[WHISTLERINMUSKOKA]

I really like the base on this one.

[murman]

The roof of the tower looks like every other roof I've ever seen at an airport.

[newflyer]

Okay .. at least the concept has been released.

Its not that tall ... a little plain .. and is only rental units... but at least the concept is out of the bag.

Disappointing?? ..yes a little, considering the build up to this.

[Marc B.]

So, it's a very nice design, nice package with the adjoining amenities. But is it 827 posts nice?

[The Jabroni]

A bit disappointing, but I like the overall design.

[Brokenhead]

I give the design a :tup:

I personnal thought the other proposal would of been to tall for this area.

[trueviking]

i dont get that really...the area is filled with towers, including three of the tallest in the city on the next block.....a 15 storey building that is this wide will have more impact on the surroundings than a 30 storey tower that is half as wide.

i hope the design gets some second thought in the development.....a little more graceful would be nice...maybe it just that birds eye view rendering...the ground view is better.

overall it seems to be a decent proposal...i like that it wont compete with the other condo proposals in the city...the city should offer land to the other proposal since they dont compete with each other.

i am not sure i love the recreated fort bits.

[Only The Lonely..]

It's a nice design, truthfully I expected a little more from this site.

I don't think a signature tower would have looked terribly out of place at this location.

In many ways it would have been an interesting juxtaposition to have such a historic structure next to a state of the art tower. It certainly would have made for a bold architectural statement on the future of this city.

Overall, I see this proposed building as being the Fort Garry Place of the future.

Although there's a high demand for rentals, I wish it was a condo. In my opinion if there was a higher percentage of home ownership downtown, there would be a greater source of pride when it comes to looking after the area.

That's just my two cents. Hopefully the project is successful and encourages others in the development community to pony up to get things moving downtown.

[jimj_wpg]

It's a nice design, truthfully I expected a little more from this site.

I too feel underwhelmed with this proposal. I would have liked something a bit taller, maybe 25 storey? We need more middle- and upper-income downtown residents really bad, and the more the merrier.

I'd like to see the GWL tower be built too. I hope the proponents of it will "regroup" and resubmit it soon for another location.

http://www.corbettcibinel.com/images/uploads/100MainStr%20aj2.jpg

[rgalston]

Height is only one matter of scale. A skinny 35-storey tower is usually better than a wide 15-storey one.

I don't expect Russ Wyatt or local NIMBYs to know that, though.

[c vist]

Judging by the renderings of the tower ... I don't think it was more skinny than the 15 storey design. The circle is a very inefficient design and needs to be wider, while the original tower had the same footprint with a much higher parking structure.

And it looks as much like a fridge as any tower does ... so Viking, I think you spend too much time in the kitchen (that would surprise me though)?

[1ajs]

o well looks like the one that got picked will do alot for this stretch of main i hope to see more infill and reuse of main.

the fort recreation would be interesting in some ways :)

bit disapointed in some ways and in others i'm not anyhow cheers

[trueviking]

And it looks as much like a fridge as any tower does ... so Viking, I think you spend too much time in the kitchen (that would surprise me though)?

i wasnt saying fridges are bad....some of my favourite people are refrigerators.

[bomberguy]

Hey... atleast it's not a park.

[c vist]

i wasnt saying fridges are bad....some of my favourite people are refrigerators.

Yep ... I've dated those types too!

[1ajs]

aww cvist whats the idea behind the market is it going to be something like what the forks has or something completely diffrent?

[furiousmcd]

Hey... at least it's not a park.

I second that thought. I seriously thought that they would pick the lamest, most uninteresting proposal on the table. What does that say about my faith in the people currently running Winnipeg?

Seriously though, I don't think this proposal is as bad or as disappointing as some people on here seem to think it is. The Fort Garry Hotel and the building with the revolving restaurant tower make up my favourite part of the Winnipeg skyline. While I drove by it today, I tried to imagine a 35 storey building on that spot and it seemed to be a little much. It would accent the enormous space between the Broadway cluster and the Portage and Main cluster. That space looks awkward enough as it is.

I think that before we go making anymore 35 storey plus towers on either Broadway or Portage and Main, we should fill the spaces between in first and focus on bringing more streetlife to all areas of our downtown instead of just isolated areas on the outskirts.

[Lee_Haber8]

It's not a secret anymore and will be on TV tonight ... the selected 100 Main proposal is

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100MainC.jpg

You will see that the article in the freeps shows the Friends of UFG are misinformed ... the proposed residential tower is outside the historic fort and the plan is to allow the development of an interpretive park on that property and the building at 100 Main is up for negotiation.

Some views:

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100mainB.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/cvist/100MainA.jpg

The developer is comfortable with this scale of building and they will not be condos as the freeps also stated, they will be rental apartments.

I generally do like how everything is laid out; the market building is a nice addition and I like how the historic walls are shown. I would prefer that the parking lot fronting Main St was moved back, underground or have street parking instead. Also I agree with TV, taller slender buildings are much better than stubby ones as they let more sunlight to the streets below and it just looks better

[Only The Lonely..]

:previous:
The building reminds me of a futuristic take on the classic Winnipeg commie block.

[1ajs]

:previous:
The building reminds me of a futuristic take on the classic Winnipeg commie block.
lol

[WpG_GuY]

'Win-win' at fort site
City's birthplace to be split in two: highrise apartment building and a heritage park to share the space

Fri May 25 2007

By Bartley Kives



CITY councillors played Solomon on Thursday by dividing a piece of surplus land, allowing both an apartment building and a heritage park to co-exist at the site of Winnipeg's modern birthplace.
Council's downtown development committee voted to sell Crystal Developers land at the corner of Assiniboine Avenue and Fort Street, immediately southwest of where Upper Fort Garry stood from 1834 to 1882.

However, the committee also asked city administrators to work with the non-profit group Friends of Upper Fort Garry to transform the rest of the surplus land -- a strip of Main Street south of Broadway -- into a historical park and interpretive centre.

That strip includes a former civic public works building at 100 Main St., as well as Upper Fort Garry's north gate, the sole surviving structure from the fur trade-era fort.

"I think this could easily be explained as a win-win," said Coun. Russ Wyatt, chairman of the downtown development committee. "The integrity of the historic gate has been preserved."

The surplus land has been up for grabs since 2006, when the city put out a call for developers to revitalize the land on and around 100 Main St.
Crystal Developers proposed a $13.3-million, 15-storey apartment building in the southwest corner, while Friends of Upper Fort Garry planned a $12-million, history-themed tourist attraction on the entire site. A third applicant wanted to build a 35-storey skyscraper, also in the southwest corner.

City planners recommended the Crystal proposal as the best means of providing a balance between generating revenue and preserving heritage. The deal approved Thursday will see Winnipeg sell the southwest parcel of the surplus land to Crystal for $1.8 million and then recoup $153,000 a year in property taxes.

That money could be used to help fund a park and interpretive centre next door, said Brian Tokar, principal owner of architectural firm Friesen Tokar, which designed the apartment building and also designed a plan for the park.

"We look at it as a very significant park. It has a story to tell," said Tokar, whose park design calls for a garden at the north end of the fort's old footprint, a farmer's market along the west side, a green space at the south and an interpretive centre on the main floor of the existing city building at 100 Main St.

It also calls for the reconstruction of the old fort's southwestern and southeastern bastions on either side of Main Street.

The apartment building, dubbed Gateview Estates, will be geared to a middle-class clientele, with 10 to 12 units on each floor, Tokar said.

The eastern wall of the parking area will be comprised of timber and Tyndall stone so the project will conform to the historical nature of the site, he added.

"We want to bring people downtown. We're hoping to do it in a sensitive and respectful, yet practical way," he said. The Friends of Upper Fort Garry, however, are disappointed by the councillors' decision, as they wanted to transform all the surplus city land into a park. They also wanted to demolish the building at 100 Main St., and build an interpretive centre where the apartment building will be built.

"A 15-storey building will tower over our park," said former Manitoba lieutenant-governor Peter Liba, who leads the Friends' steering committee.

Liba said his group is willing to sit down with the city to discuss developing the park, but he isn't sure his group can achieve its goals on a smaller parcel of land.

"What we're proposing here isn't a little community park. It was supposed to be a world-class centre," he said.

It's unclear whether the city will simply offer to give the rest of the surplus land to Friends of Upper Fort Garry, attempt to sell it, or offer some form of financial support.

The future course of action depends on negotiations, Wyatt said.

The Transcona councillor, who has been critical of city staff in the past, praised city planners for the way they handled the Upper Fort Garry file.

"They had at the front of their mind the need to preserve the site and at the same time try to achieve some revenues from the sale of the site, which would not compromise in any way the historical nature," Wyatt said. "The administration has done a very good job."

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca


Upper Fort Garry


All you need to know about the fort that led to the creation of the City of Winnipeg:

Built: In 1834 by the Hudson's Bay Co.

Purpose: From 1835 to 1870, the fort was the seat of power for almost all of Western Canada, acting as a trading post, courthouse and political centre. It served as the headquarters for Louis Riel's provisional government in 1869-70, and then housed Manitoba's first lieutenant-governors, after Riel's resistance led to the formation of the province.

Demolished: In stages between 1881 and 1888.

More recent land uses: Over the past century, the land has housed a stadium, regional offices for Imperial Oil, Metro Winnipeg's pre-Unicity headquarters and offices for the city's public works department. Declared surplus: On June 28, 2006.

The fort's footprint: Is situated diagonally across Main Street, south of Broadway. If the structure were recreated today, it would completely block off the corner of Main Street and Assiniboine Avenue, swallow up a city building at 100 Main St. and take up more than half of the Grain Exchange Curling Club on Fort Street.

Surviving structures: Only the North Gate, which is tucked between the curling club and a Petro-Canada station. Consider it Winnipeg's answer to the Western Wall, minus the religious significance and security headaches.

Future use: A possible historical park and interpretive centre, nestled against the existing curling club to the west, the gas station to the north and a proposed apartment building to the southwest.

[Only The Lonely..]

The surplus land has been up for grabs since 2006, when the city put out a call for developers to revitalize the land on and around 100 Main St.
Crystal Developers proposed a $13.3-million, 15-storey apartment building in the southwest corner.

Can they really build that thing for $13 million? That seems like a pretty low ball estimate considering the Siemens Institute shell alone is $35 million.

[Only The Lonely..]

Look at all the NIMBY's that read the Free Press:


Poll Results

Do you agree with city council’s decision to allow a 15-storey apartment building and a heritage park to be developed in and around the former site of Upper Fort Garry?

Yes 32%
No 68%

Total Votes: 241

[bc2mb]

^ and I bet the majority of them have never even set foot in that park.

[trueviking]

Can they really build that thing for $13 million? That seems like a pretty low ball estimate considering the Siemens Institute shell alone is $35 million.

i was thinking the same....10-12 units per floor means at least 10 000 square feet per floor, times 15 is 150 000 square feet...so they are figuring $115 per square foot construction cost?...most projects these days cost at least $150/sf....even a wood frame house costs more than that.

it will be interesting to see how they do it.

[murman]

I too feel underwhelmed with this proposal. I would have liked something a bit taller, maybe 25 storey? We need more middle- and upper-income downtown residents really bad, and the more the merrier.

I'd like to see the GWL tower be built too. I hope the proponents of it will "regroup" and resubmit it soon for another location.

http://www.corbettcibinel.com/images/uploads/100MainStr%20aj2.jpg

What GWL tower? Did I miss something?

[bc2mb]

i was thinking the same....10-12 units per floor means at least 10 000 square feet per floor, times 15 is 150 000 square feet...so they are figuring $115 per square foot construction cost?...most projects these days cost at least $150/sf....even a wood frame house costs more than that.

it will be interesting to see how they do it.


it seems really odd to me that these are going to be rentals... you would think with the recent downtown housing incentives announced (isn't it $20,000 per unit grant or something?), they would be condos...

[good_dude]

i like it.
good compromise.
:awesome:

[flatlander]

it seems really odd to me that these are going to be rentals... you would think with the recent downtown housing incentives announced (isn't it $20,000 per unit grant or something?), they would be condos...

The incentives are for rentals too.

[1ajs]

What GWL tower? Did I miss something?

i think murman was speculating on who was behind the new tallest?

[jimj_wpg]

Two things... one of the illustrations has depicted a lone tree at mid-elevation, while the other one doesn't.

And what is this "new market" building? It appears in the same spot as the current 100 Main St. We already have The Forks Market, can we really support two... unless it was a mixed-use Safeway or SuperValu I don't think we need it ... I think though that under the current plans, the current 100 Main St. block can be saved...

[jimj_wpg]

I think that before we go making anymore 35 storey plus towers on either Broadway or Portage and Main, we should fill the spaces between in first and focus on bringing more streetlife to all areas of our downtown instead of just isolated areas on the outskirts.

Putting the 35-storey tower elsewhere ... could it go where the current Wawanesa building is on Main @ Broadway? The building is modernist, but with bigger windows, so I kind of like it, except for the large surface parking lot.

I think though that putting the tower at the former Dominion Motors site is too much for that corner of downtown, but if it quickens the need for rapid transit then I'm all for it going there. My biggest concern over relocating it there is also the Food Court issue... the Square and TD Centre are already packed (and super noisy) at lunch.

[204]

Look at all the NIMBY's that read the Free Press:

Whanever I vote on a Free Press online poll, I know before I click submit that the majority will pick the opposite of my answer. Always. Guaranteed. :koko:

[good_dude]

Two things... one of the illustrations has depicted a lone tree at mid-elevation, while the other one doesn't.

And what is this "new market" building? It appears in the same spot as the current 100 Main St. We already have The Forks Market, can we really support two... unless it was a mixed-use Safeway or SuperValu I don't think we need it ... I think though that under the current plans, the current 100 Main St. block can be saved...

I see the proposed 100 main market as a much more practical one for downtown shoppers in winnipeg (including me) than the Forks Market is.
The reason is because the Forks is just out-of-the way enough to make it inconvent to go to for people other than tourists, or winnipeggers who just happen to be in the forks market once every month or two.

To be a real market for residents of a city, it needs to be located close to where people live. Besdies, the Forks market is not actually a Farmer's Market, it doesn't have too much stuff. All major cities have a robust farmer's market in Canada, we need one too.

[spiritedenergy]

Putting the 35-storey tower elsewhere ... could it go where the current Wawanesa building is on Main @ Broadway? The building is modernist, but with bigger windows, so I kind of like it, except for the large surface parking lot.

I think though that putting the tower at the former Dominion Motors site is too much for that corner of downtown, but if it quickens the need for rapid transit then I'm all for it going there. My biggest concern over relocating it there is also the Food Court issue... the Square and TD Centre are already packed (and super noisy) at lunch.

complaining about the crowd in downtown Winnipeg???? Geez so pathetic... it reminds of those people complaining of a lack of parking lots downtown, just plain stupid.

[spiritedenergy]

I see the proposed 100 main market as a much more practical one for downtown shoppers in winnipeg (including me) than the Forks Market is.
The reason is because the Forks is just out-of-the way enough to make it inconvent to go to for people other than tourists, or winnipeggers who just happen to be in the forks market once every month or two.

To be a real market for residents of a city, it needs to be located close to where people live. Besdies, the Forks market is not actually a Farmer's Market, it doesn't have too much stuff. All major cities have a robust farmer's market in Canada, we need one too.

Do Old Market Square and St. Norbert host good farmer markets already?

[Donovanf]

I see the proposed 100 main market as a much more practical one for downtown shoppers in winnipeg (including me) than the Forks Market is.
The reason is because the Forks is just out-of-the way enough to make it inconvent to go to for people other than tourists, or winnipeggers who just happen to be in the forks market once every month or two.

To be a real market for residents of a city, it needs to be located close to where people live. Besdies, the Forks market is not actually a Farmer's Market, it doesn't have too much stuff. All major cities have a robust farmer's market in Canada, we need one too.

I find it extremely easy to go to the forks market where I live in West Broadway just by walking around the river walk, I go there quite often.

[rgalston]

I find it extremely easy to go to the forks market where I live in West Broadway just by walking around the river walk, I go there quite often.

To take the trails along the Red River, it takes me ten minutes by bicycle to reach The Forks from home. Unfortunately, the river trails are the only enjoyable access points to The Forks right now. There's a huge buffer zone that separates The Forks from downtown (and the rail line is the least of the causes).

By the way, here's part of an article I wrote:
It’s been discussed by insiders for months, and now the type of development that will occur at 100 Main Street has been decided by the City’s downtown development committee. There will be a historically-themed park on the portion of the address that Upper Fort Garry stood on from the 1830s to ‘80s. Next to the park, a new building will rise, though it will not be the 35-storey office/condo skyscraper that some were hoping to see tower over downtown. Instead it will be a 15-storey apartment block that appears to be designed in a style that could aptly be termed Grant Avenue Moderne.

For a group called Friends of Upper Fort Garry, having no building at all would have been the best decision for 100 Main due to the site’s historical significance, though hardly a word of this was heard through the years it sat drab and underused. Today, people park their cars on the Fort's site, but the Friends of Upper Fort Garry believe it would be wrong and short-sighted to allow people to actually live and shop there...

[Greco Roman]

Yeah, very dissapointed with this outcome. No new tallest for Winnipeg, as usual, we get only 3rd best :rolleyes:

And OMG! Rental units?

Guarenteed that in 15-20 years that place will be filled with welfare recipiants and look like a slum. :hell:

[vid]

Yes, because all rental apartments become welfare slums. :rolleyes:

[newflyer]

Yeah, very dissapointed with this outcome. No new tallest for Winnipeg, as usual, we get only 3rd best :rolleyes:

And OMG! Rental units?

Guarenteed that in 15-20 years that place will be filled with welfare recipiants and look like a slum. :hell:


I expect you are right... I really dislike having rental units at this prime location. Next to P&M the intersection of Broadway and Main is probibly the second most visible area, and with the highend neighbouring buildings in the area it should be reserved for upperend projects.

The fact is larger private upperend projects want to be located in highend areas. They will not rush to just any available lot in the downtown.

[Smron]

Well I've been out a few days... but all I can say is Fucken' Eh! Who cares if it's not a new tallest, it's a pretty nice design. Built it. Hell, since it is rental units I may even move in!

[Marc B.]

That whole area south of Broadway down Assiniboine to the Leg is all or nearly all rental. It's historic, but high end? I'm not so sure. It's not Wellington Crescent.

More people living downtown is good for the city.

[Only The Lonely..]

Whanever I vote on a Free Press online poll, I know before I click submit that the majority will pick the opposite of my answer. Always. Guaranteed. :koko:

I'm guessing you didn't vote NDP. :D

[vid]

Well I've been out a few days... but all I can say is Fucken' Eh! Who cares if it's not a new tallest, it's a pretty nice design. Built it. Hell, since it is rental units I may even move in!

But, you have to be on welfare to live in a rental unit... And, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you're employed.

Sorry. You have to buy an upscale condo in this building, like the rest of us.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4377/55nassautall2so5.jpg

[Only The Lonely..]

The guys at work poured over the Free Press rendering for quite sometime during lunch today.

It was interesting, the more we talked about this project the more we all agreed that this apartment tower is the wrong thing to build at that site.

This is the most valuable unbuilt lot in all of downtown and we're going to build a generic rental complex there? It just doesn't make sense.

The site should be host to either one extreme or the other, a park or a new tallest. Whatever is built there should be truly inspiring to visitors coming downtown from the south end.

But hey what do I know? I'm no urban planner.

[Only The Lonely..]

But, you have to be on welfare to live in a rental unit... And, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you're employed.

Sorry. You have to buy an upscale condo in this building, like the rest of us.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4377/55nassautall2so5.jpg

I love 55 Nassau, but I think it's sad that if you want to live like Fraiser Crane in this town you have to settle for 60's shag carpet, and a highrise filled with pensioners.

I want to see just one good Vancouver grade highrise condo built. I'd imagine there is a lot pent up demand, there really hasn't been a new condo highrise built in the core since the 80's. I think the idea of living on the 30th floor of some swinging pad would appeal to even the most conventional home buyer.

[newflyer]

That whole area south of Broadway down Assiniboine to the Leg is all or nearly all rental. It's historic, but high end? I'm not so sure. It's not Wellington Crescent.

More people living downtown is good for the city.

I am refering to the Fort Garry Hotel and the Manitoba Club. This high profile intersection should be maximized with somehing special, but just another apartmant building.

[Smron]

But, you have to be on welfare to live in a rental unit... And, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you're employed.

Sorry. You have to buy an upscale condo in this building, like the rest of us.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4377/55nassautall2so5.jpg

I don't get it. I make pretty good money and I rent, currently. Isn't rental units just another term for 'apartments'? Or am I mistaken?

[1ajs]

I don't get it. I make pretty good money and I rent, currently. Isn't rental units just another term for 'apartments'? Or am I mistaken?
ya

[Marc B.]

I am refering to the Fort Garry Hotel and the Manitoba Club. This high profile intersection should be maximized with somehing special, but just another apartmant building.

Well sure. And there's the train station, the Wawaneesa building, the curling rink, the abandoned Public Works office, and the gas station too. Right across Fort from the hotel is the Nelson, where my friend J.B.'s been renting a batchelor suite for about ten years. The Forks and the Riverwalk are right there, and the Winnipeg Hotel's pretty close by too. It's a bit of a mixed bag. But, that's the charm of that block. It's for everyone. Kind of like a downtown should be.

With maybe a couple of exceptions, I don't think any of us here have enough information about any of the three proposals to make an informed judgment about which plan would look best there. I'll admit that as a historian, I was intrigued by the reconstruction of the Fort and as a skyscraper enthusiast I was impressed by the design of the potential new tallest. But the details on both were sketchy. What works for me about the approved design is that, first off, it's residential. Also, during an interview on the CBC yesterday, the architect talked about main floor commercial space as well. And the Fort is not only retained but enhanced. The rendering and the plan, at least, for the selected project has alot of elements that work.

I'd really like to see the new tallest go up. I'd imagine that if the company that was behind it still figures it needs the space, then it'll go up somewhere. There's a lot of room east of Portage between the MTS building and the ball park.

[biguc]

So are they killing the gas station on the corner? If so, good.

[1ajs]

So are they killing the gas station on the corner? If so, good.

if they do we need a 24 hour corner store downtown........

[Boreal]

My great wondering is, was the "new-tallest" tailored strictly for 100 Main, or is the location subjective providing such and such elements were met?

I would love to see that 37-storey commercial/residential tower go up somewhere near to the East Exchange to fully allow that neighbourhood to blossom right alongside a windmilled and museumed Forks, and a resurgent Provencher.

Hopefully the developer of the previously coined, "new-tallest" is still thinking about some sort of large condo or mixed/use development. :shrug:

[c vist]

Well Rob, I'm not sure if the Grant Avenue Moderne was complimentary or not, I think it would be taken as a compliment if you replaced Grant Avenue with St. James. It does seem like an interesting article though.

I do hope everyone realizes that this was a proposal to purchase the land with some preliminary eye candy that shows concept and massing and is definitly not the final design. This building still has to go through the design process, and for a +13 million structure, this does not happen in the few weeks it takes to put a City RFP together.

There also seems to be a fair bit of criticism of apartment living in this area. Fort Garry Place is rental and so is most of the area west to the Leg. I spent 5 years in an Apt. on Assiniboine and it was the best experience I've had because of the location. I did not live there because I wanted to own it, I wanted the amenities of living downtown and the freedom to move when we had kids. I think the attraction to downtown living should not just be to high-end, unaffordable condos ... this is the first major rental complex built downtown in some 15 years and it will be welcome to many who cannot afford the +$200,000 condos.

[Only The Lonely..]

So are they killing the gas station on the corner? If so, good.

I dunno, i think the Petro Can station has a useful function. Would Osborne be better off without the Shell? Just curious..

[1ajs]

I dunno, i think the Petro Can station has a useful function. Would Osborne be better off without the Shell? Just curious..

the gas station is needed theres no other gas station downtown :S

[vid]

What is it about downtowns and their lack of gas stations? You have to drive a good 2 miles out of downtown Port Arthur to find one. And that's Thunder Bay! We're SUPPOSED to have gas stations downtown here!

[1ajs]

What is it about downtowns and their lack of gas stations? You have to drive a good 2 miles out of downtown Port Arthur to find one. And that's Thunder Bay! We're SUPPOSED to have gas stations downtown here!


sucks to be you :P but wait you don't drive so it does not matter lol

[vid]

sucks to be you :P but wait you don't drive so it does not matter lol

Exactly!

The price of gas and insurance are two reasons I have never bothered to get my license. (I'm 18y9m now)

With insurance in the 200$ a month range and gas costing people about 200$ a month as well, that's 3200 dollars that would go into that car, compared to the 660$ I spend on bus passes. Once you use the bus 24 times, it has paid for itself. I used one about 90 times one month, that works out to about 90 cents a ride. Traveling that distance by car, I would have to pay the ~200$ insurance and maybe 60 to 120$ of gas for those distances, depending on the mileage.

Also, if I get a car, I will be one of few people in the family with a car, therefore, I will become "Mister Give Everyone a Free Ride".

[1ajs]

Exactly!

The price of gas and insurance are two reasons I have never bothered to get my license. (I'm 18y9m now)

i don't blame yea

[flatlander]

Well Rob, I'm not sure if the Grant Avenue Moderne was complimentary or not, I think it would be taken as a compliment if you replaced Grant Avenue with St. James. It does seem like an interesting article though.

I do hope everyone realizes that this was a proposal to purchase the land with some preliminary eye candy that shows concept and massing and is definitly not the final design. This building still has to go through the design process, and for a +13 million structure, this does not happen in the few weeks it takes to put a City RFP together.

There also seems to be a fair bit of criticism of apartment living in this area. Fort Garry Place is rental and so is most of the area west to the Leg. I spent 5 years in an Apt. on Assiniboine and it was the best experience I've had because of the location. I did not live there because I wanted to own it, I wanted the amenities of living downtown and the freedom to move when we had kids. I think the attraction to downtown living should not just be to high-end, unaffordable condos ... this is the first major rental complex built downtown in some 15 years and it will be welcome to many who cannot afford the +$200,000 condos.

^^What he said.

[rgalston]

Well Rob, I'm not sure if the Grant Avenue Moderne was complimentary or not, I think it would be taken as a compliment if you replaced Grant Avenue with St. James. It does seem like an interesting article though.

I do hope everyone realizes that this was a proposal to purchase the land with some preliminary eye candy that shows concept and massing and is definitly not the final design. This building still has to go through the design process, and for a +13 million structure, this does not happen in the few weeks it takes to put a City RFP together.

There also seems to be a fair bit of criticism of apartment living in this area. Fort Garry Place is rental and so is most of the area west to the Leg. I spent 5 years in an Apt. on Assiniboine and it was the best experience I've had because of the location. I did not live there because I wanted to own it, I wanted the amenities of living downtown and the freedom to move when we had kids. I think the attraction to downtown living should not just be to high-end, unaffordable condos ... this is the first major rental complex built downtown in some 15 years and it will be welcome to many who cannot afford the +$200,000 condos.

I was just joking about the style. I don't think the (very preliminary) design looks particularly terrible.

You're right about the neighborhood--it's practically all rental units in apartment blocks of different sizes, eras and rents. It's not the coolest neighborhood in the world, but it definately has a good social and economic mix. I lived there briefly in 2001, and lots of co-workers and friends of mine do now. I think it's propostrious to assume that a new private development (which will be charging moderate to high rents) will descend into being a welfare den within a few years. Fort Garry Place across the street doesn't appear to be one, and neither are most of the dozens of dirt-cheap walk-ups throughout the 'hood.

Most Manhattan residents rent.

[newflyer]

I'd really like to see the new tallest go up. I'd imagine that if the company that was behind it still figures it needs the space, then it'll go up somewhere. There's a lot of room east of Portage between the MTS building and the ball park.


All the lots east of Portage are owned by the Richardson Company. They have been wanting to build a dense business park there for years, but there just hasn't been the demand to support it. If Winnipeg's economy continues to grow I'd expect some development there in the not to distant future.

[fengshui]

Today - Sinclair rails about loss of fort opportunity.

If city won't hold the fort, what does future hold?

Sat May 26 2007
GORDON SINCLAIR JR.

IF history teaches us anything, it's that history teaches us nothing.
Take the Vietnam and Iraq wars.
Or, more locally and more recently, the ever-so-brief and futile skirmish over Upper Fort Garry and the land that represents the post-colonial cradle of our city.
The only visible vestige of Upper Fort Garry -- where Winnipeg's commerce and governance began -- is a stone gate tucked back off the corner of Main Street and Broadway.
Most of us drive by this civic icon as if it were just another derelict Main Street property.
If we notice it at all.
Those with the best view of the Fort Garry gate are evening diners at the exclusive Manitoba Club, who can sip wine and enjoy its full, floodlit glory.
So perhaps it shouldn't come as a surprise to learn that when it came time for the city to sell this unpolished public jewel of a property -- as "surplus" city land, if you please -- many of those who lined up to preserve, protect and celebrate our cradle of commerce included more than two dozen of our city's most influential citizens.
The Richardsons lent their names to the letterhead of the non-profit Friends of Upper Fort Garry. As did former premiers Edward Schreyer and Gary Filmon, and former Lt.-Gov. Peter Liba.
The Friends wanted to raise $12 million and build a world-class interpretive centre and a heritage park centred around the gate.
But even a non-profit bid by the city's most prominent and powerful didn't have a chance against the money-hungry, development-friendly committee of city council charged with selling this "surplus" land.
Meeting behind closed doors, as is the rule when the city is selling our property to the likes of Tim Hortons, there was no chance for public discussion.
A civic committee looked at the bids and decided that Crystal Development can build a $13.3-million highrise apartment abutting the original moccasin print of the fur-trade-era fort.
The Friends had planned to build a world-class interpretive site at the corner of Assiniboine Avenue and Fort Street, where the 15-storey monolith will overshadow most of the historic property.
For selling a piece of its civic soul, the city will receive $1.8 million.
Plus about $153,000 a year in property tax.
Of course, if the Friends are still willing, they can be part of a scaled-down interpretive centre and heritage site that includes the Crystal building.
The highrise is carved in stone, so to speak, but the heritage concept is still just that.
Coun. Russ Wyatt characterized all this as a "win-win," but in my view, it may have left us all losers.
The sale of our historic heart should never have been decided behind closed doors.
This is not vacant, crabgrass-infested surplus land.
It's priceless public property.
And no committee of city hall should have the right to decide its fate without a public debate and at least a vote of the full city council.
The Friends of Upper Fort Garry tried to offer us a chance to celebrate our history in a way that would make us the envy of Western Canada.
And we chose to go small-town.
Ironically, in a part of Canada where the open prairie gives us unlimited vision, our civic leaders have none.
In a place where we have so much land on which to build, we chose to stick a highrise in the face of a unique opportunity.
The Friends will meet with the administration to see what can be salvaged, but their ability to raise funds for a lesser project is in question.
What they wanted was something big and bold to celebrate how our city once was.
And claims to still want to be.
Instead, the city was essentially told to go second-rate.
How tragically typical.
But even if you don't believe in preserving and celebrating our history, even if you don't think we can afford to be world-class, there's something we all need to be concerned about.
When a gathering of the city's wealthiest, most politically connected business elite is told to scale back their dreams, what hope is there for the rest of us?
So much for our history.
So much for our future.
gordon.sinclair@freepress.mb.ca

[newflyer]

So are they killing the gas station on the corner? If so, good.

I'd be in favor of that. I have no problem with a gas station downtown, but that intersection is just too important to waste on a simple gas station, which blocks the view of the fort gate.

I mean this was the original site of commerce in the now city of Winnipeg and is now a gas station. :sly: .... and a parking lot.

[Alva360]

Today - Sinclair rails about loss of fort opportunity.

Blah...Blah...Blah...... :slob:

[Only The Lonely..]

All the lots east of Portage are owned by the Richardson Company. They have been wanting to build a dense business park there for years, but there just hasn't been the demand to support it. If Winnipeg's economy continues to grow I'd expect some development there in the not to distant future.

I always thought the lots surrounding the East Exchange and the ballpark would make a great location for highrise condominiums.

[Only The Lonely..]

I'd be in favor of that. I have no problem with a gas station downtown, but that intersection is just too important to waste on a simple gas station, which blocks the view of the fort gate.

I mean this was the original site of commerce in the now city of Winnipeg and is now a gas station. :sly: .... and a parking lot.

Personally, i'm a strong proponent of keeping the Petro Can station. Suburban services like gas stations are necessary if the area hopes to attract more residents.

I think the combination of the Safeway, Shoppers Drug Mart, and Shell station is why Osborne Village is able to sustain such a large urban population so close to downtown.

[Only The Lonely..]

I thought more about this yesterday as I through my money away at the track..

But you know where would be a perfect place for this proposed apartment?

The Dubrovnik site.

Instead of building that futuristic monstrosity on Assiniboine they should be building something like this. The scale and style of this building would be much better suited to that area.

[Brokenhead]

I never brothered to read the whole freep articles, but did they even mentioned that certainly the site is a parking lot and another building, and that half of Upper Fort Garry is where Main Street is?

Sure nice that you can get people to disagree with a proposal only telling half the story.

[newflyer]

Personally, i'm a strong proponent of keeping the Petro Can station. Suburban services like gas stations are necessary if the area hopes to attract more residents.

I think the combination of the Safeway, Shoppers Drug Mart, and Shell station is why Osborne Village is able to sustain such a large urban population so close to downtown.

I agree that downtown needs a wide spread of services, but that corner lot is much too important.


Needless to say that P&M used to house a gas station, before the Richardsons bought the lot and cleared it for there head office.

[1ajs]

All the lots east of Portage are owned by the Richardson Company. They have been wanting to build a dense business park there for years, but there just hasn't been the demand to support it. If Winnipeg's economy continues to grow I'd expect some development there in the not to distant future.

all this area?

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6760/dsc4601hm7.jpg

anyhow newflyer if you go diging threw flickr deep enuff theres a bunch of photos of a proposil they had way way back for back there that some one found slides of in a dumpster

o and heres were i got that photo from: http://www.danharperphotography.com/photos/where/wpg_helicopter052307/index.htm#20

[biguc]

I thought more about this yesterday as I through my money away at the track..

But you know where would be a perfect place for this proposed apartment?

The Dubrovnik site.

Instead of building that futuristic monstrosity on Assiniboine they should be building something like this. The scale and style of this building would be much better suited to that area.

What about where those vacant apartments are next the the leg?


As for the gas station, I'm with newflyer. Broadway and Main should be one of the biggest corners in the city. It's daft that there's a gas station and parking lot there.

As for Osborne, I'd rather the Shoppers and Shell weren't there--at least in their present forms. The street front on Osborne north of River is shameful, and the Shell and Shoppers do their part to make it suck. As far as gas stations go, the Shell isn't that bad. But Shoppers addresses the street like a pile of shit.

Service wise, I suppose they're useful. Shoppers is the 24h condom store, if nothing else. I can fill my bike tires at the Shell. Don't have much more use for either.

[1ajs]

What about where those vacant apartments are next the the leg?


As for the gas station, I'm with newflyer. Broadway and Main should be one of the biggest corners in the city. It's daft that there's a gas station and parking lot there.

As for Osborne, I'd rather the Shoppers and Shell weren't there--at least in their present forms. The street front on Osborne north of River is shameful, and the Shell and Shoppers do their part to make it suck. As far as gas stations go, the Shell isn't that bad. But Shoppers addresses the street like a pile of shit.

Service wise, I suppose they're useful. Shoppers is the 24h condom store, if nothing else. I can fill my bike tires at the Shell. Don't have much more use for either.

lol

The apartments by the ledge i belive are slated for demolition..... if they havent already been demolished

[Brokenhead]

Aerial views always make Winnipeg look so empty.