[HX_Guy]

I never go in CVS because they are always closed when I need to go and I can't tell from the street if they are open or not so I just go to Walgreens. I hate that freakin CVS on Central. One of the worst buildings in all of downtown.

I admit I haven't been to many CVS stores but I assume they are identical to Walgreens in their selections, no?

[Vicelord John]

I actually like CVS better because they feel a bit roomier and the aisles are shorter in height. They don't have quite as many groceries, but otherwise have an almost identical selection of items. Plus every time I get a script filled at CVS, it's cheaper than the same drug was from walgreen's.... When I used to take Lorazapam, it was $18 from Walgreen's and $7 from CVS... both generic.

[glynnjamin]

Am I wrong or is Walgreens a local company? I mean, I know they are a huge corporation (they just bought Duane Reede in NYC) but I knew a lot of people who worked at their corporate offices when I was growing up.

Most drug stores are one step above motels with hourly rates in my opinion. The walgreens on 7th St is one of the scariest places in Phx on a Saturday night. I don't know if I could say I've ever been in a drug store that I liked.

[mwadswor]

I admit I haven't been to many CVS stores but I assume they are identical to Walgreens in their selections, no?

They're basically identical. If you were to cover up the signs, I highly doubt anyone could tell the difference during the day. The main difference I've noticed is that CVS tends to close down around 9 or 10 at the latest and a lot of Walgreens are open until at least midnight if not all night.

[glynnjamin]

^And that's why I never go to CVS. I usually need a drug store at 1am...not 1pm.

[mwadswor]

^And that's why I never go to CVS. I usually need a drug store at 1am...not 1pm.

Which is probably why you think they're so scary :whip:

[Vicelord John]

the CVS I go to is open til forever... 24/7. I don't know what your issue is.

And gymrat, Walgreens is in Chicago IIRC.

[dtnphx]

Oakville Grocery heads to CityScape in place of A.J.'s

Phoenix Business Journal - by Jan Buchholz

Oakville Grocery will open in September in the new CityScape project in downtown Phoenix.

The announcement was made Monday by RED Development Partner Mike Ebert, Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon and Barbara Henderson, general manager of Oakville.

The 9,000-square-foot speciality grocery store from Napa Valley, Calif., takes the place of A.J.’s Fine Foods, which was slated for the $1 billion mixed use project, but bowed out after parent company Bashas’ filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in July.

Oakville Grocery opened its first Arizona store in January at Scottsdale Quarter near North Scottsdale Road and East Butherus Drive, just east of Kierland Commons.

Henderson said shoppers can except to find a wide selection of palate-pleasing delights, including products from 15 local purveyors.

According to the company’s Web site, the Scottsdale store “features a wide range of imported and domestic specialty food products, handmade cheeses, gourmet sandwiches, fire-baked oven pizzas, chef-prepared entrées and salads, charcuterie, fresh meats, freshly baked artisan bread and baked goods, espresso and coffee drinks, fresh juice bar, specialty chocolates, organic produce, and a large selection of unique wines and specialty beer.”

The flagship store in Napa Valley has its roots in a country store that started 120 years ago. Oakville’s other California store is in Healdsburg in Sonoma County.

Downtown Phoenix has lacked a grocery store for decades.

“For years and years we’ve been talking about ... needing a grocery store downtown,” Gordon said. “In order to have any vibrant neighborhood you need a grocery store. We’re going to have a great one that’s unique.”

Gordon thanked RED Development for its persistence in locating a suitable vendor.

Ebert said with the grocery store and other retail tenants that CityScape will be busy seven days a week and “will change the character of downtown.”

[Vicelord John]

^^^^^^ not convinced.

[SunDevil]

They should get some good business from folks leaving work who have to pick up some grocery items for dinner. Plus, if they are like AJ's they will get great lunch-time business. Outside of that I think it will be little more than a trickle of business and they will probably have to adapt by closing around 9-10 each night as opposed to other grocers.

[combusean]

Am I wrong or is Walgreens a local company? I mean, I know they are a huge corporation (they just bought Duane Reede in NYC) but I knew a lot of people who worked at their corporate offices when I was growing up.

Most drug stores are one step above motels with hourly rates in my opinion. The walgreens on 7th St is one of the scariest places in Phx on a Saturday night. I don't know if I could say I've ever been in a drug store that I liked.

They have a prescriptions fulfillment backoffice in Tempe at the ASU Research Park but their headquarters are in Illinois.

Seconded about lame-ass CVS. I remember getting a good deal on some candles there but overall the store was of far less utility to me than Walgreens. Sucks that it doesn't look like I'll be able to change from the Midtown Walgreens (24 hours, not seedy) with this.

And as far as the grocery store ... who knows. Downtown is weird. The crowd I know there is poor but has expensive tastes. I'd welcome any place to get better beer for example.

[Evil Empire]

I've personally never seen a Walgreens that's open past 10 (except for the 24-hour ones). Compared to CVS, I've seen the same thing...they're open 'til 10 with some 24-hour ones.

[combusean]

Last I checked the CVS at Central and McDowell closed at 8:00 PM.

[gymratmanaz]

Article in the Republic again mentioned the hotel. YEAH!!!

All those trees on the mesa look really cool.

There is one tree on the West staircase that is already touching the sun screen over the escalator. Why plant a tree that tall there. Switch it with a shorter one and put that taller one on the lower level so it can grow. DUH!!!

[NorthScottsdale]

I wish we could get some Rite-Aids around town. I like those better than CVS and Walgreens..

[Evil Empire]

Last I checked the CVS at Central and McDowell closed at 8:00 PM.

The pharmacy does...M-F and then at 6:00 on the weekend. But the store itself is open 'til 10:00 7 days a week.

I like Walgreens more, the CVS stores just feel weird to me for some reason...probably because I'm just so used to the Walgreens.

[combusean]

Last I was in there (a year ago?) they closed at 8 and I asked the manager about them staying open later and they said they had enough theft problems.

The fact that the pharmacy closes earlier is just lame. Drugstores quickly lose their point for me if I can't pick up a prescription inside them when I need it.

[Leo the Dog]

Oakville Grocery heads to CityScape in place of A.J.'s

Phoenix Business Journal - by Jan Buchholz

Oakville Grocery will open in September in the new CityScape project in downtown Phoenix.

The announcement was made Monday by RED Development Partner Mike Ebert, Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon and Barbara Henderson, general manager of Oakville.

The 9,000-square-foot speciality grocery store from Napa Valley, Calif., takes the place of A.J.’s Fine Foods, which was slated for the $1 billion mixed use project, but bowed out after parent company Bashas’ filed for Chapter 11 reorganization in July.

Oakville Grocery opened its first Arizona store in January at Scottsdale Quarter near North Scottsdale Road and East Butherus Drive, just east of Kierland Commons.

Henderson said shoppers can except to find a wide selection of palate-pleasing delights, including products from 15 local purveyors.

According to the company’s Web site, the Scottsdale store “features a wide range of imported and domestic specialty food products, handmade cheeses, gourmet sandwiches, fire-baked oven pizzas, chef-prepared entrées and salads, charcuterie, fresh meats, freshly baked artisan bread and baked goods, espresso and coffee drinks, fresh juice bar, specialty chocolates, organic produce, and a large selection of unique wines and specialty beer.”

The flagship store in Napa Valley has its roots in a country store that started 120 years ago. Oakville’s other California store is in Healdsburg in Sonoma County.

Downtown Phoenix has lacked a grocery store for decades.

“For years and years we’ve been talking about ... needing a grocery store downtown,” Gordon said. “In order to have any vibrant neighborhood you need a grocery store. We’re going to have a great one that’s unique.”

Gordon thanked RED Development for its persistence in locating a suitable vendor.

Ebert said with the grocery store and other retail tenants that CityScape will be busy seven days a week and “will change the character of downtown.”


I'm not sure if this is gonna be successful. What DT needs is a smaller Fry's type market. Oakville could be successful, if perhaps, there were 1000 condo's located above and a block to the east. I just don't see people stopping by there to pick something up on their way home. Thats not how it works. Besides, in the the summer, everything will be warm by the time one drives home and it gets to your fridge.

[combusean]

Your logic is backwards, or one doesn't preclude the other.

A small Fry's type grocery would be successful if downtown has a huge built in population actually residing there. The run-of-the-mill residential grocery market is already cornered by the Safeways and the Bashas.

A Fresh 'n Easy on the other hand would appeal to the downtown lunch crowd/office dwellers picking things up on their way and be small enough to fit the existing population base. It wouldn't directly compete with the larger grocery stores.

Oakville will probably pull in people from across Central Phoenix and Tempe, office worker or not, downtown resident or not. The downtowners that are there today will appreciate it being there.

[phxbyrd]

I might find points of your argument more likely to be valid if you knew your geography...

I've been busy the last week so here's my reply about the AZ center. I wrote west when I should have wrote east. There is nothing to the east of AZ center. I covered TGen and ASU. To the west I already covered the AZRep. and I was discussing DT workers so the hotel made no difference for the point I was making.

[phxbyrd]

clearly what was needed here was a Fresh and Easy or somekind of smaller Sprouts or Trader Joes. Perhaps the corporate offices of these companies were hesitant due to the market but some incentives would have done the trick. Don't you think Oakville got incentives?

[Leo the Dog]

Your logic is backwards, or one doesn't preclude the other.

Oakville will probably pull in people from across Central Phoenix and Tempe, office worker or not, downtown resident or not. The downtowners that are there today will appreciate it being there.

Maybe for a first time visit for the "ooh and ahh" impact of trying something new, but c'mon, really? You really think people are going to drive that far, in traffic, pay to park, just for groceries?

[Vicelord John]

chances are parking will be validated by the grocery store. I would have a tough time being convinced otherwise.

[mwadswor]

Maybe for a first time visit for the "ooh and ahh" impact of trying something new, but c'mon, really? You really think people are going to drive that far, in traffic, pay to park, just for groceries?

Or hop on the light rail. I wouldn't do it for lunch/groceries, but it would be easier than driving/parking DT.

[glynnjamin]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glf5EiXZI/AAAAAAAAHLE/26aWaEcCgM8/s640/CIMG2078.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glfeIRtPI/AAAAAAAAHLA/l8Xn7Bn1jRQ/s640/CIMG2079.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glfWMPogI/AAAAAAAAHK8/3W3JJ84MojE/s640/CIMG2080.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glS16VGII/AAAAAAAAHKs/B4VRLCWlmHk/s640/CIMG2082.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glSiIdBNI/AAAAAAAAHKo/fK9iGI2iKd0/s640/CIMG2083.jpg

[glynnjamin]

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glSeSAe2I/AAAAAAAAHKk/ODaryqimHnY/s640/CIMG2084.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glIsiklLI/AAAAAAAAHKU/6lo74jECiB4/s640/CIMG2087.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4glITWfsSI/AAAAAAAAHKQ/mgdO3h3IeG8/s640/CIMG2088.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4gk6HNBZvI/AAAAAAAAHJ4/eKSqVUJ6B3I/s640/CIMG2093.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4gk5d5uI-I/AAAAAAAAHJs/mmT2rTPQ4mo/s640/CIMG2096.jpg

[gymratmanaz]

Glynnjamin.....was that you I saw sneak through the fence yesterday, as I drove past???? I saw someone climb through a break in the fence with a nice camera. I think it was somewhere around 5-6PM-ish.

[glynnjamin]

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4gk5KT7XNI/AAAAAAAAHJo/GqDyXfBp-x0/s640/CIMG2097.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_i6C1jXh3BV4/S4gk5iyv5II/AAAAAAAAHJw/OSZMEyMkqRo/s640/CIMG2095.jpg

[Vicelord John]

Glynnjamin.....was that you I saw sneak through the fence yesterday, as I drove past???? I saw someone climb through a break in the fence with a nice camera. I think it was somewhere around 5-6PM-ish.

was it on the east side of central? if so that was me hahah

[glynnjamin]

No, not me. Those are all with my camera phone. Wouldn't dare take my nice camera to jury duty. LOL.

[pbenjamin]

Has anyone stopped by Gold's sales? Any specials for signing up? Gymrat, do you know?

I'm thinking, one might be able to get a free membership for grand opening sales just to get steady clientele down there.

I just got a flyer in the mail today for "Phase 1 Pre-Sales"

The front of it says "Join For 6 Months FREE!" - First 300 Members Only!

Inside are three coupons

$100 off Enrollment, offer Expires 3/31
Free Towel Service -First 250 Members Only
3 Free Personal Training Sessions -First 250 Members Only


It refers you to 888-70-GOLDS and www.goldsgym.com

There is a 4 page foldout with the layout of the place.

[glynnjamin]

^I got that same thing in the mail. I gotta see how much enrollment is...cuz $100 off anything more than $100 in this economy is too much.

[glynnjamin]

Check this out
http://www.goldsgym.com/gyms/page.php?gymID=1156&sec=20205&cid=11824

[gymratmanaz]

Yes it was!!! I only got a quick glimps. NICE VICELORD. Where are the pics? Bet you got some awesome ones. ..... and a story to boot. I though the security guard so you from his booth.

[Vicelord John]

I didn't get any pics. The security guard got me the second I got in there. He was radioing the cops so I bounced.

[gymratmanaz]

Damn...I should have distracted him for you by honking or something!

[PhxPavilion]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p82/nr01/2010-02-18115836.jpg

[kaneui]

I would suggest that those long flights of stairs will tend to isolate the elevated plaza and discourage pedestrians from entering that block of Cityscape. (Or will there be escalators flanking those staircases?)

[gymratmanaz]

Escalators are already installed. The ones on the west side even have a shade canopy over it.

[PHXguyinOKC]

the Gold's Gym corner looks really nice but the PSP corners look really bad (so far anyway). hope they end up looking good in the end.

[Leo the Dog]

I just got a flyer in the mail today for "Phase 1 Pre-Sales"

The front of it says "Join For 6 Months FREE!" - First 300 Members Only!

Inside are three coupons

$100 off Enrollment, offer Expires 3/31
Free Towel Service -First 250 Members Only
3 Free Personal Training Sessions -First 250 Members Only


It refers you to 888-70-GOLDS and www.goldsgym.com

There is a 4 page foldout with the layout of the place.

Thanks for the info!

[Don B.]

They have no hot tub.

--don

[CANUC]

They have no hot tub.

--don

Why would a gym need a hot tub? Maybe you meant a sauna? Otherwise you just sound digusting.

[Vicelord John]

Gym = meeting place and pick up spot for gay men. A hot tub provides a place to mingle.

[glynnjamin]

John is our resident expert in all things gay.

[Vicelord John]

well my great uncle was 1/4 bi.

[Vicelord John]

OAKVILLE GROSS-ERYFeb
24
2010The Dish

Earlier this week, RED Development announced that Oakville Grocery would take up some space at CityScape—that 1.8-million-square-foot mixed-use development in downtown Phoenix. Occupying a coveted ground floor space as the project’s official grocer, EATERAZ went searching for comment from the people who live downtown that could use such a store, but we couldn’t find any people who live downtown that could use such a store.

We did, however, run into one city employee who said, “I live in Chandler, and it’s just nice to know that when I get out of a Suns game, I will have a place to pick up some aged balsamic vinegar and artisanal crackers. After two hours of drinkin’ beer and eating hot dogs, I always crave a little Gruyere cheese and maybe a nice Gewurztraminer.”

We then asked a friend to visualize what life would be like if she lived in downtown Phoenix and had to make Oakville Grocery her place for everyday shopping, since there’s really nowhere down there to get life’s little essentials. She said: “I think overpaying about $1 to $5 for everything in that store is worth it, because it’s Oakville Grocery! … I mean, duh! I can totally see the relationship between the real Oakville, tucked between vineyards on a picturesque road in an old building with a few rose garden picnic tables out back, and this one, where the eleven people that live in 44 Monroe will shop. There’s really no difference between the two.”

We were also going to ask some guy named Steve Weiss for his comment, but he published it on Chow Bella’s blog here:

For the record, he said: “It works perfectly with an overpriced and chi-chi bowling alley. Cityscape is looking more and more like an effete out of time-frame out of control train.”

Wow, dude. Why do you gotta be such a hater?

[gymratmanaz]

I don't have time for "Glass half empty" types!!!!!!!!

[Leo the Dog]

I don't have time for "Glass half empty" types!!!!!!!!

Very valid points were brought up in that article though. My biggest concern (which was sarcastically brought up in the article) is who is going to shop there? The household income level in the immediate area is low with the few exceptions of the condo owners nearby (which couldn't possibly support a store of this size). The low population density is also a problem, especially for its location inside a downtown development. People typically shop at supermarkets for convenience, "which one is closest to my residence?", "which one offers the best prices?", neither of which Oakville will be able to provide to many people.

I imagine sales will be strong for the first couple of months and then slowly start to taper off as people will go back to Safeway on McDowell or Basha's/Safeway on Osborn, or for our mid-towners the AJ's on Camelback/Central.

[bwonger06]

I personally use the Oakville grocery a lot up by Kierland. I work across the street so I will go in there 2 or 3 days a week to buy some fresh made bread (I pack a sandwich to work everyday). I hope people working downtown will utilize the place, although a concern will be justifying late hours after the work crowd leaves... we will see.


BTW- has the downtown cartel location opened up yet? I am not taking the light rail to school this semester so I feel like I am out of the loop when it comes to downtown.

[HooverDam]

I personally use the Oakville grocery a lot up by Kierland. I work across the street so I will go in there 2 or 3 days a week to buy some fresh made bread (I pack a sandwich to work everyday). I hope people working downtown will utilize the place, although a concern will be justifying late hours after the work crowd leaves... we will see.



Speaking of the Oakville there/Scottsdale Quarter I visited the other day and kind of had the same impression as everyone, Im not sure if its a good fit for downtown but I hope it succeeds.

However the City of Scottsdale desperately needs to build an underpass like Phoenix did between the Biltmore and Esplanade to connect Kierland & SQ. There's a perfect spot to do it aligning with Kierlands 'main street' (or whatever they call it).

Also Im happy to see SQ is getting a dinner cinema (http://www.GoldClassCinemas.com/) that shows first run films. I only wish it were Downtown...maybe we'll get something like it if JSED or the rest of CityScape ever happen.

[glynnjamin]

There is already a dinner cinema over there. How many do they need? That Ferelli's place is never crowded when I go.

[HX_Guy]

So is the Palomar hotel dead? A document on Downtown Phoenix development updates talks about the hotel space downtown and does not list the Palomar as one of the upcoming hotels. Do they know something we don't?

"HOSPITALITY
880,000 SF of space in Phoenix Convention Center · 2,577 hotel
rooms and 100,000 SF of meeting space (+278 rooms - Westin 2011). "

http://cl.exct.net/?ju=fe27167676600374741074&ls=fdf21175706c077f7c167675&m=ff041670726604&l=fec710737361017c&s=fe281c707060047a7d1576&jb=ffcf14&t=

[Leo the Dog]

^^^ Hope not.

[HX_Guy]

Check out this document from the Recorders Office on the signage at Cityscape, which does show elevations for the South Tower...its a 36 page document but has some good schematics of both blocks...

http://nitnelav.com/20100142061.pdf

[plinko]

^Starts to give an idea how they are architecturally treating the upper portions of the south building on the PSP block that everybody seems to dislike so far. Repeated vertical elements do alot to break up long ugly facades like that.

It'll be interesting to see how they turn out.

[dtnphx]

[QUOTE=HooverDam;4727390]Speaking of the Oakville there/Scottsdale Quarter I visited the other day and kind of had the same impression as everyone, Im not sure if its a good fit for downtown but I hope it succeeds.
QUOTE]

How big is the store at Scottsdale Quarter? The one for Cityscape is 9,300 SF. To give you an idea, Trader Joe's at Town and Country is 8,000 SF. So, it seems to be a nice size store that will be geared more to an urban format with more grocery choices than say a suburban one.

The Chow Bella thing was fun to read, but it's that tone of voice that doesn't support anything new here, because Phoenix sucks, we're not a real city, it's better in Philadelphia, yada, yada. Point is, Oakville chose to go in for a reason. Did they do their due dilligence? Of course. Decisions like this are not created in a vacuum. Some people would just prefer nothing go in so they can stand up and say, "see, what did I tell you?" And if it does go in, they say I told you so. :slob:

[Vicelord John]

there are some things going on ova der.

in this pic you can see the two places where the pedestrian walkway will end.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2929.jpg

Will these just be windows? or is there going to be a rooftop bar of some sort?
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2926.jpg

I thought this was a cool perspective
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2925.jpg

Gold's Gym is not for gay men
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2922.jpg

Are those Chinese Elm? with a roof over them? fuck...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2921.jpg

The board on the elevator shaft clearly says "rooms." Does that reference hotel rooms? If so, it maybe is safe to say it's a go???
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2919.jpg

The new Jefferson Street. Already hard to imagine Bum Piss Park there.
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2918.jpg

BLUE!
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2917.jpg

[HX_Guy]

There is already a dinner cinema over there. How many do they need? That Ferelli's place is never crowded when I go.

I don't think they are the same thing. I've never been to a dinner cinema but I imagine it's dinner tables and then they show a movie on a screen up front?

The Goldclass Cinema opening up at SQ is more like a normal theatre but with reclining seats and small sidetables which they bring you food at. It seems like an awesome idea, though expensive, so I won't go for every movie, but once in a while I can't wait.

Goldclass:

http://www.foodgps.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/gold-class-cinemas.jpg

http://www.timeoutsingapore.com/contentFiles/image/venues/golden-village-gv-gold-class-482x402.jpg

[Vicelord John]

those seats look like they get gross.

[HooverDam]

There is already a dinner cinema over there. How many do they need? That Ferelli's place is never crowded when I go.

Ferellis doesn't show first run films, they're showing the same stuff thats in Dollar Theaters, this new place will be all 1st run stuff. Either way I wish it was in Downtown/CenPho or even the Biltmore area instead of SQ, but ah well.


How big is the store at Scottsdale Quarter?

Im horrible at approximating square footage. Id say its about the size of a normal super markets produce section section or slightly larger.

[plinko]

THIS (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2918.jpg) is just brutal. Based on the signage sections provided by HX I see how it will end up...but it's horribly disappointing that cake decoration applique is trumping decent urban architecture.

I am Jack's continual sense of unexcitement...

[Don B.]

^ Shittyscape! :D

--don

[Vicelord John]

Im really surprised i thought my pic of the elevator shaft would stir things up.

[PhxPavilion]

THIS (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2918.jpg) is just brutal. Based on the signage sections provided by HX I see how it will end up...but it's horribly disappointing that cake decoration applique is trumping decent urban architecture.

I am Jack's continual sense of unexcitement...

Typical Phoenix.

Im really surprised i thought my pic of the elevator shaft would stir things up.

I think it's pretty safe to assume the hotel will happen (if slowly) until further notice.

[kaneui]

THIS (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d60/haulasshyena/DSC_2918.jpg) is just brutal. Based on the signage sections provided by HX I see how it will end up...but it's horribly disappointing that cake decoration applique is trumping decent urban architecture.

If that's the case, then the renderings on Cityscape's website are a bit deceiving, as they show a lot of windows on the PSP block's second story buildings (at least on the First Ave. side).

[HX_Guy]

If that's the case, then the renderings on Cityscape's website are a bit deceiving, as they show a lot of windows on the PSP block's second story buildings (at least on the First Ave. side).

Those renderings are from when there were still apartments planned for that block, hence all the windows. That has been since scrapped and there are very few windows.

Vicelord: That isn't the elevator core for the hotel. That will be in the middle of the tower, which is currently just rebar. I am assuming that that elevator is to get from the street level to the plaza area, for wheelchairs and such.

[dtnphx]

CityScape's downtown debut nears

by Jahna Berry - Mar. 5, 2010 12:00 AMThe Arizona Republic

This spring and summer, downtown Phoenix's $900 million CityScape development will start to show signs of life.

In early April, the first office tenants will begin to move into the 27-story tower at First and Washington streets. As the weather gets warmer, shops, restaurants and a reconfigured Patriots Square Park will open. Next year, there will be more to see: Travelers will be checking into the 240-room Hotel Palomar near Central Avenue and Jefferson Street.


The sprawling three-block development is bordered by First Avenue, Second Street, Washington Street and Jefferson Street. An official grand opening is planned for the fall.

Phoenix, which gave more than $120 million worth of incentives as part of the development deal, hopes the project will bring more 24-hour energy to the business district. CityScape is part of a huge investment that Phoenix taxpayers have made downtown in recent years. Phoenix has helped bankroll a $600 million convention-center expansion, the $1.4 billion light-rail line and a downtown ASU campus and subsidized the $350 million Sheraton hotel.

Experts say that it's too early to say whether CityScape will have a significant impact of the surrounding neighborhood.

The office tower, which has about 600,000 square feet of space, is 75 percent full.

There is roughly 180,000 square feet of retail space on two blocks and it's 85 percent full, said Jeff Moloznik, development manager for RED Development LLC. The Scottsdale-based firm is the project's developer.

"If you look at the retailers in CityScape, there is a common theme to all of them. The diversity of very hands-on, owner-operated retailers," Moloznik said.

Especially the restaurants. The list of CityScape eateries is sprinkled with well-known names from Phoenix food circles.

That includes Aaron May, the chef behind Sol y Sombra and Over Easy, as well as restaurateur Sam Fox, who opened Olive & Ivy Restaurant & Marketplace and a string of other Valley restaurants.

Bob Lynn, owner of the La Grande Orange restaurant group, plans to open a CityScape restaurant called LGO Public House.

There will also be a CVS/Pharmacy, clothing shops and Oakville Grocery Co., a specialty food shop.


Ripple effect?

CityScape buzz will help boost interest in other downtown attractions such as the monthly First Friday art walk, theaters and sports venues, said Jason Harris, a Phoenix official who works on downtown development issues.

"It will further the perception of the wealth of things that downtown has to offer," he said.

Phoenix also hopes that the influx of shops and restaurants trickles out to vacant spaces in other neighborhood buildings, Harris added.

As CityScape rental space fills up, business owners "will be out there looking," the economic-development official said.

It's too early to say how CityScape will impact the neighborhood, said Bob Kammrath, president of Kammrath and Associates, a commercial real-estate research company.

The project will have some advantages: Just as shoppers flock to auto malls with lots of car dealerships, they will be drawn to CityScape's selection of restaurants and bars.

"People will say, 'What do you want to eat, honey? Well, I don't know, let's go to CityScape.' That's because there will be a lot of options there," Kammrath said.

But Kammrath was skeptical about whether other retailers, such as clothing stores, would survive there.


Waiting for recovery

While construction crews are busy on the first two blocks of CityScape, the easternmost block is quiet.

Developers once planned to build 1,000 condominiums on the block bound by First, Second, Washington and Jefferson streets. That was put on hold after the real-estate market collapsed.

"Right now, we can't get financing for a condo project in downtown Phoenix," said CityScape spokesman Jay Thorne.

Developers believe there is still demand for downtown condos priced in the $200,000 to $400,000 range but they are waiting for the housing market to heal.

"It's the second phase, and timing is being evaluated monthly," Thorne said.

[Leo the Dog]

^^^ This kills me: "The sprawling three-block development is bordered by First Avenue, Second Street, Washington Street and Jefferson Street."

[glynnjamin]

Surprised that dumb bitch forgot to mention the bowling alley and the improv. Seems like those would go a long way towards making it more of a "24-hour" destination...more so than restaurants and clothing shops. Speaking of which, the owner of Culture Fresh told me that he is looking at moving over there too. Much better location for him. Closer to the ghetto-fabulous things like basketball games and those night clubs on the Wash.

[hrivas]

this was included with the article
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee258/hrivas08/DSC01407-1.jpg

[plinko]

...and yet still no permits for the hotel (somebody would have posted it)...

[PHX31]

Is it really still called Patriot's Square Park?

[gymratmanaz]

I hope not. Maybe we should name it. Cityscape Square, Cityscape Park, Cityscape Plaza..... Ideas?

[Vicelord John]

Well since it didn't take off for any other park. John's really big fucking park.

[HX_Guy]

Why do you guys have such a problem with the name Patriot's Square? I like it...it sounds like other city's "Union Square" or the like and not all commercialized like Cityscape Square would.

[HX_Guy]

Surprised that dumb bitch forgot to mention the bowling alley and the improv. Seems like those would go a long way towards making it more of a "24-hour" destination...more so than restaurants and clothing shops. Speaking of which, the owner of Culture Fresh told me that he is looking at

The bowling alley was mentioned in the newspaper article (posted earlier) and the improv has not yet been officially announced.

As for permits...yep...still no permits. I asked about the hotel tower just the other day and they said they had to make some structural changes and that construction should "hopefully start soon".

[Vicelord John]

because people in Arizona like to feel as if they are in some contrived commerical space. It makes them feel upscale.

[PHX31]

Why do you guys have such a problem with the name Patriot's Square? I like it...it sounds like other city's "Union Square" or the like and not all commercialized like Cityscape Square would.

I don't dislike the old name, but is there really a park there anymore? More like a retail plaza.

[HX_Guy]

Yea that could make sense...drop the word "park" but leave it as Patriot's Square.

[gymratmanaz]

That is my meaning. It is not really a park...Plaza or Square is better. Patriot Square or Patriot Plaza.

[mwadswor]

I don't dislike the old name, but is there really a park there anymore? More like a retail plaza.

How about renaming it Patriot's Square Plaza?

[HX_Guy]

Plaza sounds like too much of a commercial space with no public use at all...sounds like a medical plaza.

[glynnjamin]

Isnt it a commercial space with no public use at all? I mean, as far as I know...we don't own it anymore (unlike the park it replaced)

[HX_Guy]

Isnt it a commercial space with no public use at all? I mean, as far as I know...we don't own it anymore (unlike the park it replaced)

I understood that it still has a park in the center for public use? No? I don't care who owns it...I care if there is a space in the middle for public use.

[glynnjamin]

I think it is "public space" as much as that fountain area at Westgate is public space. You're allowed there until you are asked to leave or beyond any posted hours. It is private property. I don't think they will be letting the bums set up camp like at the old PSP

[HX_Guy]

I think it is "public space" as much as that fountain area at Westgate is public space. You're allowed there until you are asked to leave or beyond any posted hours. It is private property. I don't think they will be letting the bums set up camp like at the old PSP

I don't think that will be the case. I mean they will probably have hours, but many public parks have that, but I don't think they can make you leave otherwise.

[Vicelord John]

they can make you leave any time they want if it is private property....

[plinko]

they can make you leave any time they want if it is private property....

Exactly. And the first time one of you PHX photoheads sets up a tri-pod? I'm sorry sir, but can I see some ID and your camera please? (not legal, but it'll happen I assure you)

The park was a disaster no doubt, and the new retail 'plaza/park/small trees masquerading as an urban oasis' might be better, but the loss of it as a truly public space is going to be irritating.

[Vicelord John]

Exactly. And the first time one of you PHX photoheads sets up a tri-pod? I'm sorry sir, but can I see some ID and your camera please? (not legal, but it'll happen I assure you)



Actually it is legal to run you off for taking pictures (or any other activity) since you are on their property, but they cannot require your ID. What you do in that case is go on the sidewalk and antagonize them. I've been run off of Chase Building property a few times, and I'll just move five feet onto public right of way and take pictures I didn't even want, just to fuck with the donut eating fellow. One "security guard" even told me Chase owned the sidewalks and I was violating the freedom act or some shit. I told him he can call the cops... they never did show up.

[plinko]

^Oh I know the rules. I've been stopped enough times. Now I always take shots from the public right-of-way. If rent-an-occifer Jerk wants my ID or to call the police? I usually encourage it.

[Vicelord John]

I laugh when they say to give your camera or delete the pictures. I don't know what these guys think is going to happen from a picture, or if they are just looking for someone to try to bully.

[HX_Guy]

But I understood that the City of Phoenix still owns the property and is leasing some of the space to RED...so the middle "park" area will still be a park as much as any other park. Is that not the case?

[Vicelord John]

lets clarify it because I want to know what is true when I set up my tripod and play mr. potato head.

[plinko]

^Hard to say. RED as the leaseholder can likely cry 'liability' and prohibit photography. I'm sure they'll have security of some kind.

[HooverDam]

I seem to recall that it is remaining as public space. At least that was the discussion way back when at City meetings when the whole Save PSP group was bopping about. I believe the middle plaza and the street will sometimes be closed for events and whatever. They (RED) made a big point to say it would still be public space.

[PhxPavilion]

$900 million my ass.

[glynnjamin]

Just for a point of reference. I was getting harassed by the Dbacks security for riding my bikes to the games back when I was a season ticket holder. I would ride through the plaza area to get to the bike racks so that I could avoid the traffic on 2nd St. So they would stop us daily and tell us not to ride through and I told them it was public property. The county owned it, I was a property owner and tax payer of the county and that it was my right to ride through it. They disagreed and eventually bolted my bike to the bike rack. After a long drawn out argument with Derrick Hall, a few city of Phoenix police, and a convo with a few city counsel members I was informed that since the Dbacks leased the property, they could decide how and when it could be used. I am going to take a shot in the dark and say the same goes for this "park" at CityScape.

[Don B.]

^ Bolted your bike to the bike rack? That's called conversion, and they can be sued for that. I'd write more, but I don't want to be accused of "cutting and pasting legal verbiage" by somebody here.

--don

[glynnjamin]

Well it is in the past...and the cops didn't seem to have a problem with it. Needless to say, it is one of the many reasons I boycott the organization. In any event, I just thought I would throw it out there as an example of a situation that mirrors this CityScape debate. Silly me for thinking that if the tax payers buy something, they should be able to use it.