[gymratmanaz]

This morning they are adding some really nice trees to the PSP planting containers. I saw 6 in so far. They are doing 3 varieties so far. I hope they keep mixing them up for different colors and shapes. One new mesquite variety will triple in size in two years. i have some at my work. They are awesome shade trees with nice shapes.

There are also 3 trees on the west side near the CVS entrance. They are smaller trees than the ones on central on the east side. Same variety, but they are smaller.

They were smoothing the cement floor for the third floor on the part east of the hotel (or at least better be hotel! LOL)

[gymratmanaz]

CVS electric signs are up on both the south and west facades!!!!

They are also putting the shade covers on to the pedestrian bridge.

[Vicelord John]

cool

[gymratmanaz]

HX and I went down a little while ago and the strange thing is that they took all the pedestrian bridge panels down.......No idea why. Maybe they realized they forgot to put up the supports for the north side of the bridge or something. LOL

[HX_Guy]

A few pictures from today...

What is one of the stupidest and most disappointing things about CVS? They drywalled the damn windows! What the hell is the point of that?
http://nitnelav.com/DTMay162010/3.jpg

Think Gold's Gym has enough signage? You can also see the lights that have been lighting up Patriot's Square at night on top of Gold's...looks very afterthought to me, not very well incorporated into the building, looks temporary.
http://nitnelav.com/DTMay162010/2.jpg
http://nitnelav.com/DTMay162010/4.jpg

Finally a panorama from inside Gold's Gym...
http://nitnelav.com/DTMay162010/1.jpg

[HooverDam]

Gold's the entire project...looks very afterthought to me

Fixed that for ya

[Leo the Dog]

I'm surprised that Phoenix approved CVS to sell beer/wine at CS.

[glynnjamin]

I think they drywalled those windows because those windows are going to be covered in signage...

[gymratmanaz]

The CVS by my house has the same thing, drywall in the windows with just a little light coming in the top. It's weird.

[Vicelord John]

Drywalled windows = space for shelving

[gymratmanaz]

But at least put so something on the other side, the CVS name, a poster, an ad...?

[Vicelord John]

Probably big window stickers with the weekly promotions.

[HX_Guy]

Drywalled windows = space for shelving

Why even have the windows then? I was really hoping that theywouldnt simply uproot a suburban CVS and plop it down in downtown but it looks like that is exactly what they did.

[Vicelord John]

Why even have the windows then? I was really hoping that theywouldnt simply uproot a suburban CVS and plop it down in downtown but it looks like that is exactly what they did.

Cvs didnt design the building red did. Cvs in chicago are the same.

[HX_Guy]

Cvs didnt design the building red did. Cvs in chicago are the same.

Did RED design the ones in Chicago then too? ;)

All the CVS and Walgreens look the same...they have windows on the side that aren't actually used as windows and I don't get it. I mean I get that they can stack up shelves along the walls...but then why even have the windows there? In most cases, the windows are actually high up and uncovered for natural light, which makes sense, but the ones that are at street level only to be blocked off?

[Vicelord John]

My point abour red desiging it is that i would think they want to build a space that meshes with the rest of te building and also can be used for somethig else if that tenant ever moves out. If cvs designed and built it, they would own it and probably would do differently. Plus, they still break up the facade.

[HX_Guy]

The building design yes, but the drywalled windows have to be a CVS thing since all their stores are like that. I don't know, I would of just liked to be able to actually see in the store...see products and people shopping, would have given it a cool urban feel.

[Vicelord John]

Well, CVS builds out the inside of the store how they want to do it, so I guess they decided being able to use the space rather than "look cool and urban" was more important.

I mean shit, you complained about the finish on the building and how there was nothing to break it up, and now you complain about the windows and say why even put them there. It seems you can't be pleased.

[glynnjamin]

I was just in the CVS in downtown San Diego on Saturday and it's the same way. Big stickers over the windows and drywall darkness on the inside. Don't get it.

[Vicelord John]

Don't get it.

In Amy Pollard and Seth Meyers voices in Weekend Update, *really?*:koko:

[HX_Guy]

Uhhh...huh?

Permit# DEM-10009307 Issue Date 5/17/10 Expires 7/16/10
Permit Description DEMOLITION OF PATRIOTS SQUARE PARK
Project 06-5309 CITYSCAPE
Address 11 W WASHINGTON ST AZ Zoning DC
L 1 B * REPLAT OF BLOCK 77 QS Q10-27 APN 112-22-107 Dist 08
Description/Scope of Work: DEMO PERMIT ONLY

CURRET BUILDING CODES: 2006 IRC, 2006 IECC, 2006 IBC, 2008 NEC, 2006 IMC, 2006 UPC, 2006 IFC, 2006 IFGC

************************************************************************************
THIS PERMIT ONLY APPLIES TO WORK ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. WORK TO BE PERFORMED IN THE CITY RIGHT OF WAY WILL REQUIRE A RIGHT OF WAY PERMIT PRIOR TO COMMENCEMENT OF WORK.
************************************************************************************

*THIS PERMIT SHALL EXPIRE BY LIMITATION AND BECOME NULL AND VOID IF THE WORK IS NOT COMMENCED WITHIN 30 DAYS AND IS NOT COMPLETED WITHIN 60 DAYS OR IF ACTIVE AND CONTINUOUS DEMOLITION WORK IS SUSPENDED OR ABANDONED FOR ANY PERIOD OF 5 DAYS OR MORE PRIOR TO FINAL COMPLETION AND CLEARANCE OF ALL DEBRIS FROM THE SITE. REASONABLE AND CONTINUOUS PROGRESS SHALL BE MADE TO COMPLETE ALL DEMOLTION WORK AS EXPEDITIOUSLY AS POSSIBLE.

THE PROPOSED WORK INCLUDES: STRUC, PLMB, MECH AND ELEC SYSTEM
ZONING:..........DC
BUSINESS NAME:...PATRIOTS PARK
REVIEWER:........MVA

DESCRIPTION OF WORK:
TOTAL DEMOLITION OF PATRIOTS PARK INFRASTRUCTURE ( FINAL ORIGINAL DEMO PERMIT # DEM 09006227).

[Vicelord John]

maybe there is something left like elevators or stairs that they are replacing?

[HX_Guy]

I passed by Scottsdale Quarter today and took a few pictures to put up for discussion...

I really like the way they handled both the design/architecture of the buildings as well as the "back end" of them. These are all facing Scottsdale Rd, so there are no entry points on any of these, but they still managed to make them engaging and to not look like it is turning its back to the street, even though this isn't a pedestrian street in any way.

It's great how they also made the mega buildings look like individual buildings. While it looks a little themed now, as they age, I think it will look even better. Cityscape, like AZ Center, looks like one huge building/business/retailers...there isn't anything to differentiate between them other then the signage...like a strip mall. Why couldn't Cityscape have done something like this...incorporate some brick...some modern elements...some classic stuff etc. Im sure the answer is that it comes down to money but for something at the center of the city, they should have taken a little more pride into what they built and not just done the bare minimum to turn out a finished product.

http://nitnelav.com/ScottsdaleQuarter/1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/ScottsdaleQuarter/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/ScottsdaleQuarter/3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/ScottsdaleQuarter/4.jpg

[plinko]

Uhhh...huh?

Because of the public/private partnership with that lot, it's probably an 'as-built' permit to clarify what was actually put in with regard to the utilities, etc. Basically a 'clean up' in the documentation.

That's my thought.

[HooverDam]

Scottsdale Quarter is OK, but the fact that none of those buildings have entrances off Scottsdale Rd is ridiculous. The whole thing is overly inward facing. I can understand doing it that way if nothing else was around, but with Keirland right across the way they had the perfect opportunity to make that section of Scottsdale Rd lively. They also need to build a pedestrian underpass under Scottsdale Rd to connect the Quarter and Kierland like they have in Phx with Biltmore and the Esplanade.

E: VV I still dislike how Keirland looks like it was all built at once by one developer, of course it looks like that because thats the case. At least at the Scottsdale Quarter they varied it up a bit more, but for these sorts of projects I wish they'd hire different architecture firms and give them parameters for the spaces to create more variety- though I understand that would drive up cost.

Scottsdale is a wide, busy road, but with as far back as Scottsdale Quarter is set back from the street I think you could have street facing retail. Additionally if they would've added parallel or diagonal parking to that portion of Scottsdale Rd from Acoma to to Kierland it would've created a more pedestrian friendly area.

[HX_Guy]

Scottsdale Quarter is OK, but the fact that none of those buildings have entrances off Scottsdale Rd is ridiculous. The whole thing is overly inward facing. I can understand doing it that way if nothing else was around, but with Keirland right across the way they had the perfect opportunity to make that section of Scottsdale Rd lively. They also need to build a pedestrian underpass under Scottsdale Rd to connect the Quarter and Kierland like they have in Phx with Biltmore and the Esplanade.

Yea but that is like saying Kierland Commons is inward facing. Of course it is, but it has "streets" within the whole project so it's ok in my opinion. Besides, Scottsdale Rd is way too busy of a street to really have street facing retail.

I do agree on the underpass...it's a must really and it's only a matter of time before someone gets hit crossing the road, especially with more and more stores and restaurants open at the Quarter.

To add, I was actually at Kierland Commons this weekend (love the fact that is actually in the City of Phoenix and not in Scottsdale) and even though it's "faux urban"...they have pulled it off so damn well. With the project now aging and the trees maturing, it really does feel like a small city downtown, I would say it's my favorite "mall" in the Phoenix area. Once they finish the Quarter, that area will have a decent size and if they connect the two will really be quite a destination.

[glynnjamin]

Im pretty sure no one actually walks across the street there. I would imagine everyone in that part of town drives...just like at Arrowhead.

[HooverDam]

Im pretty sure no one actually walks across the street there. I would imagine everyone in that part of town drives...just like at Arrowhead.

They don't walk across the street there because there's no way to. Like I said, its just like the Biltmore-Esplanade set up, if they put a walkway in, it would get used.

[Leo the Dog]

Who would pay for the walkway? Phoenix or Scottsdale?

[Vicelord John]

Sure as hell not scottsdale.

[Don B.]

^ They could split the cost but projects like this are not likely anytime soon. Not until the economic budget bleeding stops.

--don

[mwadswor]

I'm sure it would increase pedestrian and profitablity for both, perhaps the developers could contribute.

[plinko]

It would require roads encroachment permits and legal easements from both cities (each of which having very different standards) and could potentially create insurance liability issues for each (in terms of public safety). I don't see either city being interested in chipping in as someone walking across the street is less sales tax dollars in your city (backwards thinking, but quite prevalent amongst city politicians).

Even if the developers offered to fund it, I still see alot of legal issues just in creating it.

But I could be totally wrong about this...

[Vicelord John]

the reason they did the one on camelback is because people were dying. Next time you drive up scottsdale road, please try to hit a pedestrian. Each one you hit will put us that much closer to our goal.

[glynnjamin]

the reason they did the one on camelback is because people were dying. Next time you drive up scottsdale road, please try to hit a pedestrian.

Always been a goal of mine.

[NorthScottsdale]

HooverDam, they should definitely not have put diagonal or parallel parking on Scottsdale rd off the street, and I'm glad they didn't. Traffic is already so much of a bitch around there, it would have just tied things up more. Also, can you imagine trying to back your car out onto busy Scottsdale Rd? Scottsdale Rd will never be walkable.. so I don't mind that it is all inward facing. It is too wide of a road and too busy of a road to ever have a "pedestrian" feel to it.

BTW, why a tunnel, and not a bridge? wouldn't a bridge be easier/cheaper to construct than a tunnel?

[HooverDam]

HooverDam, they should definitely not have put diagonal or parallel parking on Scottsdale rd off the street, and I'm glad they didn't. Traffic is already so much of a bitch around there, it would have just tied things up more. Also, can you imagine trying to back your car out onto busy Scottsdale Rd? Scottsdale Rd will never be walkable.. so I don't mind that it is all inward facing. It is too wide of a road and too busy of a road to ever have a "pedestrian" feel to it.

So there's something inherent about Scottsdale Road that prevents it from being walkable? Better no tell that to the section of Scottsdale Rd that runs through old town. With proper planning the Keirland-Quarter area could've been done very similarly with express roads zipping around the outer edges of the centers for those not wanting to drive up S'dale Rd.


BTW, why a tunnel, and not a bridge? wouldn't a bridge be easier/cheaper to construct than a tunnel?

How often do you see people using pedestrian bridges? They require gigantic ugly ramps and a flight up a bunch of stairs thus greatly slowing the time to cross the street. A tunnel is surely more costly and more difficult but its also a lot nicer and would be used more.

[plinko]

Pedestrian bridges are cheaper, but they require alot more room. The bridgest have to be clear of traffic, which means they have to be up high, which requires much longer access ramps, etc. A tunnel is much more efficient in terms of space.

And no, I don't agree with the notion of that portion of Scottsdale Road being walkable in the future. That entire area is built expressly for cars. Scottsdale Road in Old Town works not just because of the express roads (Goldwater/Drinkwater), but because there is a surrounding network of business fronted sidestreets, which bleed into suburban but connected residential streets. Everything up by Kierland is built like an island...

[HooverDam]

And no, I don't agree with the notion of that portion of Scottsdale Road being walkable in the future. That entire area is built expressly for cars. Scottsdale Road in Old Town works not just because of the express roads (Goldwater/Drinkwater), but because there is a surrounding network of business fronted sidestreets, which bleed into suburban but connected residential streets. Everything up by Kierland is built like an island...

Right which is why I said "if it were planned properly" :duh:

If they would've planned from the get go to make it walkable, they could've done so and made Scottsdale Rd that way. As it is, its still more walkable than your traditional intersection with 3 strip centers and a gas station and over time could be made more so. New Urbanist projects all across the country slowly change far more suburban places into walkable ones.

[plinko]

The dirty little secret of 'new urbanism' is that it essentially creates urban pockets but does very little to solve the problem of the large arterial street. With Scottsdale Road being 6 traffic lanes + a 30ft+ median will never lend itself to being 'walkable'. I suppose you could re-work Kierland Blvd and 73rd Street into little express roads, which would give the infrastructure a similar look to Old Town (to a small extent)...

...but there are some sizeable office projects in that area that aren't going anywhere in the near future and ALL of them are suburban in nature. The similar scaled office projects in Old Town Scottsdale tend to have zero setbacks and underground parking.

I just don't see it happening...

[HX_Guy]

Too bad it's so close to the intersection...had it been more in the middle of the block, maybe they could have incorporated a stop light similar to Central Ave between the Civic Park and the Cronkite School building.

[HooverDam]

The dirty little secret of 'new urbanism' is that it essentially creates urban pockets but does very little to solve the problem of the large arterial street. With Scottsdale Road being 6 traffic lanes + a 30ft+ median will never lend itself to being 'walkable'.


Arterial streets can be narrowed then and put on 'street diets.' Either way what I was trying to say is, if they planned from the get go for walkability they could've had it. Even now, its still got potential, Ill take that 'dirty little secret' and have pockets of walkability over no walkability at all which is generally what we have now.

[PhxPavilion]

Can we move the Kierland and Scottsdale road discussion to the Phoenix development thread.

[Phxguy]

Does anyone else see more construction going on with the tower 2 site?

[PhxPavilion]

Does anyone else see more construction going on with the tower 2 site?

They are still only building out the retail portion on the east side although half the hotel is supposed to be over the retail and the other half in the tower, I'm not sure how they plan to move ahead without building both.

[Leo the Dog]

Right which is why I said "if it were planned properly" :duh:

If they would've planned from the get go to make it walkable, they could've done so and made Scottsdale Rd that way. As it is, its still more walkable than your traditional intersection with 3 strip centers and a gas station and over time could be made more so. New Urbanist projects all across the country slowly change far more suburban places into walkable ones.

One could argue that is was "planned properly". It is 25-30 miles outside of the PHX CBD, at least 5 miles north of Old Town. Back when they "planned" this area it was meant to be a thoroughfare, just like the rest of the Valley.

I'm not saying I agree, but 10 years ago there wasn't much up there but washes and cacti, so why would they build it for pedestrians?

[HooverDam]

I'm not saying I agree, but 10 years ago there wasn't much up there but washes and cacti, so why would they build it for pedestrians?

Because we should plan most areas for pedestrians/humans...?

[Leo the Dog]

Because we should plan most areas for pedestrians/humans...?

What I mean is: Our planners can't even do this in our established CBD's very well, so what makes anybody think that all of a sudden Valley cities would create dense narrow streets with walkable shopping districts with solely the pedestrian in mind at the expense of the automobile?

[gymratmanaz]

Lots of trees going in this morning. Looks great with trees with some size!!!

[Phxguy]

Lots of trees going in this morning. Looks great with trees with some size!!!

What kinds of trees?

[gymratmanaz]

a nice variety, and they are big.

[Phxguy]

a nice variety, and they are big.

Good, the least Cityscape can do with the trees is plant variety and big ones.(haha)

[gymratmanaz]

and by the looks of the added planting areas, there are lots more to come. I am betting there will be between 12 - 16 trees in he courtyard.

[Vicelord John]

I'm gonna pee on their trees so they grow faster.

[gymratmanaz]

that is some potent pee you have then!

[HX_Guy]

From the Stand Up Live press release...


Stand Up Live at CityScape will feature a 600‐seat club that combines 
theater and restaurant with an adjacent martini bar, all wrapped in a state of the art architectural design.   
Mer said the club plans to operate Wednesday through Sunday nights, 
including midnight  shows on weekends.  

In addition, Mer said the club will offer comedy classes for kids and adults – 
activities aimed at fun, but also at finding, developing and nurturing local comedy talent.  Many of CityScape’s restaurant and retail tenants have local 
roots.   

[HooverDam]

but also at finding, developing and nurturing local  comedy talent   

lets hope this is true. This guys reputation says exactly the opposite will happen and he's only interested in gigantic big time headliners. With such a huge venue to fill you'd imagine that would continue to be the case. I hope he'll have a side room where local talent can get time like whats available at the Improv in Tempe.

[renone]

Does anyone have any idea when the businesses in PSP are supposed to open? Its really too bad that they aren't open now for the Suns games.

[gymratmanaz]

June I hear for the first ones. I would bet late June if they hurry...... By how far they are on the inside, i would even guess July, but who can tell for sure without official announcements.

[Vicelord John]

interesting that they still have the original schedule of suns games and last night the halo was prpl/orng and during the game on sunday it was blue.

[PhxPavilion]

There's work going on in the first level retail portion on Washington and Central, under the Gold's Gym.

[renone]

They just removed the tower crane on the corner of first street and jefferson. Hmmm. What does that mean for the future?

[HX_Guy]

Nothing really I wouldn't think since they are done going vertical with the retail stuff on the SE portion of the block. If they take down the crane on Central, then we have a problem.

[PHX31]

The amount of cranes on the skyline during the Suns/TNT games has looked pretty cool... those for the courthouse tower and Cityscape. Aerials from "birdseye" level, ie, a helicopter, are the best.

The lighted crown of Cityscape's tower at night was also pretty cool at the end of TNT's broadcast.

[Vicelord John]

It seems like people are still confused about where tower 2 is supposed to go. It is NOT on the east side of the block like tower 1. They are staggered so Tower 1 is on NEC and tower 2 is on SWC. Make Sense now why the crane on the SEC would be taken down?

[renone]

Got it. Thats good to hear.

[gymratmanaz]

And now they can fill in the holes where it was so they can complete the retail.

*More awnings up.
*Styrofoam is going in faster
*They have cutouts on the pedestrian bridge. I can't wait to see how it is dressed. I still think there will be a moving (jumbotron-like) screen mounted on it.
*More trees
.
.
.

[plinko]

Anyone of you kids got a camera (that's not a cellphone) to take some pics that you can share?

[AZScraper]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k121/ndnwotah/IMG00582-20100527-1025.jpg

You can see the cvs sign in the corner of psp :slob:

[KEVINphx]

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k121/ndnwotah/IMG00582-20100527-1025.jpg

You can see the cvs sign in the corner of psp :slob:

That looks like absolute SHIT, I know enough people have said it, but damn!

What a joke that the city even approves such a structure for the epicenter of the valley.:yuck:

[gymratmanaz]

Of course, judge a place by its roof. LOL :)

[KEVINphx]

Of course, judge a place by its roof. LOL :)

Does it really matter what I judge it by, perhaps the roof would be less of an issue if it were not a TWO STORY stucco shithole?

It's just hard to believe that any architect had a concern other than bottom line.

[Vicelord John]

Does it really matter what I judge it by, perhaps the roof would be less of an issue if it were not a TWO STORY stucco shithole?

It's just hard to believe that any architect had a concern other than bottom line.

c'mon man, I'm sure you can find a similar structrue in the center of just about every downtown. Some of those structures probably don't even have a mall in them.

[Jsmscaleros]

I'd like to see that sunny white space put to some good use. Methinks a good spot for some serious solar energy generation.

[gymratmanaz]

I totally agree on the solar space!!!

They just craned up a structure for the third story of the elevator on the East side. They are also lifting sheets of rebar to reenforce it.


More signage going up for the CVS on the south side, and they have more awnings up too.

The pedestrian bridge has cement floowing now going across.

about 10 more trees were delivered for planting. They are the big ones like they just added to the new large planters. They are good shade trees that flower, but I am not sure of the variety.

[Phxguy]

I totally agree on the solar space!!!

They just craned up a structure for the third story of the elevator on the East side. They are also lifting sheets of rebar to reenforce it.


More signage going up for the CVS on the south side, and they have more awnings up too.

The pedestrian bridge has cement floowing now going across.

about 10 more trees were delivered for planting. They are the big ones like they just added to the new large planters. They are good shade trees that flower, but I am not sure of the variety.

I'm guessing tower 2 is a go then. Hopefully by this summer most of the stores in psp will be open and the water thig in the center will be complete.

[HX_Guy]

I'm guessing tower 2 is a go then. Hopefully by this summer most of the stores in psp will be open and the water thig in the center will be complete.

The elevator thing he is talking about isn't for the hotel core, it is for the pedestrian elevator off of 1st St next to the escalators.

[Phxguy]

The elevator thing he is talking about isn't for the hotel core, it is for the pedestrian elevator off of 1st St next to the escalators.
Oh okay, but anyways it's good to hear that the crane for the retail portion has gone down. Finally the eastern block retail has been topped out. I'm pretty sure if the hotel's built that's where the pool will go. Ontop of the retail.

[HooverDam]

I'd like to see that sunny white space put to some good use. Methinks a good spot for some serious solar energy generation.

Didn't the original plans show a green roof there? That would be my #1 choice, a green roof thats accessible by the public, as a patio space for one or more of the restaurants below, being able to look over the historic County Courthouse, down to the arena, etc. from a green roof would be rad.

Though solar panels would be my #2 choice.

[gymratmanaz]

Green roof makes sense with the big recessed container they made. HX and I were talking about that when they put it in.

I wish someone had contact with a solar company to install on the PSP side. Anyone????

[Sekkle]

here are a few shots I took today at lunch. I haven't kept up on this project too well aside from checking this thread once in a while, so I don't know much about what's shown, what's old news to you guys, etc.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/4645962115_34d30e2fcf_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4645953699_bd79a4664b_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/4645952695_b1df0e14ea_b.jpg

[plinko]

Nice shots Sekkle!

What the hell happened to the SW corner of CVS there? Why doesn't the glass wrap around to the 1st Ave side? It looks terrible.

EIFS is just nasty. Honestly that CVS building looks like they took an old ugly concrete warehouse and cut some openings into it at the corners and mid-facade.

I don't know, even with the vertical signage bands to be added (which we've seen no physical evidence of yet), something went horribly wrong with this building.

Maybe it's just me being hyper-critical. As an architect I have a notorious tendency to do that.

[HooverDam]

^You're not, they did about as bad of a job possible. Its really amazingly bad, its very Arizona Center-ish, just grey instead of tan.

[Leo the Dog]

^You're not, they did about as bad of a job possible. Its really amazingly bad, its very Arizona Center-ish, just grey instead of tan.

Don't insult the Arizona Center.

[phxbyrd]

The difference being I was excited about the AZ center when it first opened. I still think it's more attractive that CS with the landscaping.

[HX_Guy]

You guys are nuts thinking AZ Center is better than Cityscape. Have you guys actually Bern out downtown and walked around the project?

To me AZ Center feels, because it is, an open roof mall. It is completely enclosed...you don't see pedestrians passing by, you don't see cars passing by...it is it's own environment.
Cityscape on the other hand is much more open tom the surrounding downtown and actually has street frontage with retail entrances right off of the surrounding streets.

[Leo the Dog]

You guys are nuts thinking AZ Center is better than Cityscape. Have you guys actually Bern out downtown and walked around the project?

To me AZ Center feels, because it is, an open roof mall. It is completely enclosed...you don't see pedestrians passing by, you don't see cars passing by...it is it's own environment.
Cityscape on the other hand is much more open tom the surrounding downtown and actually has street frontage with retail entrances right off of the surrounding streets.

Don't get me wrong, CS is definitely an improvement to DT Phx for sure and I'm glad it was built. Both projects have major shortcomings though. I like the landscaping of AZ Center much better, but I like CS' location and the visibility/better interaction with the street (although it is inward facing too).

[dtnphx]

Tenants breathing life into CityScape
Phoenix Business Journal - by Jan Buchholz

Office tenants are starting to move into the long-awaited CityScape mixed-use development in downtown Phoenix, and two new retail tenants have been announced.

Five Guys Burgers and Fries, a national casual food chain that already has four locations in the Valley, will take 2,500 square feet and is expected to open this summer. Par Exsalonce, a locally owned salon and day spa with one location in DC Ranch in Scottsdale, is taking 4,000 square feet and is set to open at the same time.

Several new tenants already have settled into the office tower at the southeast corner of Washington Street and Central.

[HX_Guy]

We already knew about both of those tenants from permits and Recorder records months ago.

[HX_Guy]

Here is the rest of that article with tenant opening dates at the end...

Tenants breathing life into CityScape
Phoenix Business Journal - by Jan Buchholz


Office tenants are starting to move into the long-awaited

CityScape mixed-use development in downtown Phoenix, and two new retail tenants have been announced.

Five Guys Burgers and Fries, a national casual food chain that already has four locations in the Valley, will take 2,500 square feet and is expected to open this summer. Par Exsalonce, a locally owned salon and day spa with one location in DC Ranch in Scottsdale, is taking 4,000 square feet and is set to open at the same time.

Several new tenants already have settled into the office tower at the southeast corner of Washington Street and Central

Avenue. They include law firm Ballard Spahr LLP, which leased 35,000 square feet, and Fidelity National Title Insurance Co., which leased 5,000 square feet.

Ballard Spahr, which is based in Philadelphia, is expanding its footprint by 10,000 square feet.

“Ballard wants to expand significantly in the Western U.S., and it was decided that Phoenix would be the hub of growth,” said Karen McConnell, a partner at Ballard Spahr. “We love our new space.”

Other tenants include RED Development LLC, the developer of CityScape, which has moved into its 16,000-square-foot digs; law firm Jennings Strouss & Salmon PLC, which is moving in this week to 60,000 square feet; and law firm Squire Sanders & Dempsey LLP, which will occupy 72,000 square feet by June 10.

“We’re here. We’re real. We’re in sight every time they pan the cameras from US Airways arena,” said Keith Earnest, vice president of development for RED.

About 200,000 square feet remain to be leased, and Earnest expects more interest to be generated when the retail portion comes online, creating a gathering place with retail and multiple lunch options.

“This is going to make everyone in downtown a whole lot happier,” he said.

A designed segue from the office tower to the retail space is a pedestrian bridge over Central Avenue. The bridge will be completed by the end of May, linking the second floor of the office building with a substantially landscaped, 50,000-square-foot open space and retail spaces. It is expected to open the first week of July.

“It’s going to have monumental trees, grassy areas and interactive water features,” said Jeff Moloznik, development manager for RED.

Although the official grand opening for the retail portion is slated for October, several retailers and restaurants will be open before then. The 800-seat Stand Up Live comedy club also projects an October opening.

The first retail opening will be a CVS drugstore in mid-July, taking 13,000 square feet. The largest retail tenant, the Lucky Strike bowling alley, will take up 18,000 square feet. It will open in late July.

With only 14,400 of the total 180,000 retail square footage left to lease, Moloznik said he’s hoping to land a bookstore.

“We’re still trying to do that. We’re not giving up on it,” he said.

The lion’s share of retail tenants will open this fall, though Gold’s Gym has been operational since May 1.

“This is the first Gold’s Gym Elite club,” said Tom Slavin, the general manager.

The club includes state-of-the-art exercise equipment, a cardio theater, an upscale lounge, permanent lockers and laundry service.

Slavin would not say how many people have joined, but said the number is growing.

“We’ve got a good mix of workers and people who are driving from 3 miles out to come here,” he said. “They want to be part of something new.”

Gold’s picks up the tab for underground parking with membership packages starting at $40 a month.
Coming to CityScape


Tenant (in sq. feet) Space Opening

CVS Pharmacy 13,000 Mid-July

Designer District 3,000 Mid-July

Republic of Couture 3,000 Mid-July

Lucky Strike 18,000 Late July

Urban Outfitters 11,000 October

Stand Up Live 17,000 October

Oakville Grocery 10,000 October

Press Coffee 900 October

Alliance Bank of Arizona 26,000 October

Taqueria 2,500 November

Noodle 900 November

LGO Public House 3,000 December

The Breakfast Club 3,200 December

Steak & Chophouse 7,200 December

Source: RED Development LLC

[HooverDam]

A bookstore would be terrific, especially if it was something different than a Barnes and Noble or Borders, as it would be more of a unique attraction. A "Changing Hands" branch location would seem like a perfect fit to me, you know CenPho people who go way out of their way to support the local guy would be all over that.

[glynnjamin]

A bookstore would be terrific, especially if it was something different than a Barnes and Noble or Borders, as it would be more of a unique attraction. A "Changing Hands" branch location would seem like a perfect fit to me, you know CenPho people who go way out of their way to support the local guy would be all over that.

They have a twitter. I got into a debate with them about Amazon not paying taxes so I'm not on good terms with them...but they were pretty responsive.

[plinko]

Once upon a time there was a bookstore in the Arizona Center...a B Dalton...

I think that was the last downtown bookstore (aside from the architectural bookstore that was briefly at Central and McDowell prior to that heinous CVS going in). Changing Hands would be marvelous, but they'd have to give them a big break on the rent.

I always reserve final judgement until I can see a finished project for myself and on many occasions I've been quite suprised. I'll probably be over there later this summer to take a peek and walk around and obsess over the details (or lack thereof).

[dtnphx]

We already knew about both of those tenants from permits and Recorder records months ago.

Well, maybe you did. It was on The Business Journal website this morning and thought I'd share. Take the lead my friend :worship:

[pbenjamin]

Once upon a time there was a bookstore in the Arizona Center...a B Dalton...

I think that was the last downtown bookstore (aside from the architectural bookstore that was briefly at Central and McDowell prior to that heinous CVS going in). Changing Hands would be marvelous, but they'd have to give them a big break on the rent.

Poisoned Pen had a store at 215 E. Grant Street that closed in 2007.

[Vicelord John]

I wonder why they covered up the beer & wine signs... Change their minds?

[gymratmanaz]

I saw that today too, John. I wonder if they are sealing them or painting something around them or something...

I went up in tower #1 to the Fidellity offices and checked out the scene from above. Looks cool, and it definitely looks like there will be some sort of green patio or something. The recessed area is right for either some sort of big planting area or maybe a water feature.

They also moved the safety fencing back. It makes the mesa nicer with even the second story closer.

They added even more trees today and are still building more planting containers. I counted four more just today big enough for trees.

It is kinda cool, each day now a few small details gets added here and there. I know some people are not liking it, but you know when you clear a room to paint or redo it? It always looks bare and small and boring. Then you start bringing in the furnature, rugs, stuff for the walls, and other personal stuff. All of a sudden it looks so much nicer than you planned. I am starting to get that feeling with Cityscape. (So bring on the signs, lighting, trash cans, more planters, more plants, tables, umbrellas, music, kiosks, windows of stuff, railings, awnings, pavers, water features, moving escalators, elevator, and more.......)

[HX_Guy]

Did you just get excited about trash cans? :)

[gymratmanaz]

It's a fetish I share with few. LOL :) You should see how I react to fire hydrants, ash trays, and dumpsters. ;)

[PhxPavilion]

^You're not, they did about as bad of a job possible. Its really amazingly bad, its very Arizona Center-ish, just grey instead of tan.

The Arizona Center is much nicer design wise than that drab building.