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HX_Guy
Feb 14, 2008, 11:07 PM
Dubai might have a great looking skyline from afar, but from the pictures I've seen, the streetscape is worse then Phoenix's. The skyscrapers follow a long stretch of a 12 lane (or something like that) and probably resembles Midtown in Phoenix north of Camelback on Central...but with a freeway going down it instead of a normal street.

loftlovr
Feb 15, 2008, 7:21 AM
neworeans,

That was some funny shit!
I couldn't agree more.

DFD's proposal was modern but ooohhh... can't spend those tax payers' money unwisely!
I am happy that 44 Monroe is modern. And OCPE. And Cityscape. And Cronkite.

Not Summit and Sheraton though- that's okay- they can't all be the same style!

PhxPavilion
Feb 15, 2008, 11:32 AM
pleased with it/ what's wrong with everyone!!! the mix of red and brown and tan,the colors of throw-up.
it's not even modern and it's made so cheap, where's the glass facade! last time i saw it i almost thru-up... literally.
For being the richest country in the world, we should be building skyscrapers at least somewhat better than other countries.

Oh don't be so melodramatic. Phoenix is not Dubai in any way, please don't compare them.

neworleans
Feb 16, 2008, 7:19 AM
yeah, i know. when it comes to hundreds of millions of dollars, you can't always build what you want, especially when you're trying to make a profit. The ruler of dubai, on the other hand, isn't trying to make a profit... he's just building his own dream city... and hey, if you're a ruler, you can do that. Plus, most of those buildings in dubai will probably stay empty. is there even enough tenants to fill them all?

about the sheraton though, i know it's a done deal, but i just cant get over what it could have been... plus, it really is ugly!!!

sundevilgrad
Feb 17, 2008, 1:09 AM
yeah, i know. when it comes to hundreds of millions of dollars, you can't always build what you want, especially when you're trying to make a profit. The ruler of dubai, on the other hand, isn't trying to make a profit... he's just building his own dream city... and hey, if you're a ruler, you can do that. Plus, most of those buildings in dubai will probably stay empty. is there even enough tenants to fill them all?

about the sheraton though, i know it's a done deal, but i just cant get over what it could have been... plus, it really is ugly!!!

With the tax and legal breaks that are being handed out to major corporations, they're tripping over themselves to relocate their...

LoverOfDubai
Feb 17, 2008, 7:42 AM
This is really off topic, but I cannot just sit and let this pass me by:

:haha: :previous:

Yeah, but you're also talking about a place that has an actual economy based off of something, which is basically the gas that Phoenicians use to sit in traffic and go from the strip mall to the suburban house. If we kept that money at home, built real cities, then we would care about our architecture looked like. But, you can't expect any architectural quality when you're sealed off from the urban sphere in a car.

It is a myth that Dubai gets its money from oil and petroleum. Many people think just because it is in the Middle East (and more specifically in the Arabian Gulf) they have a lot of oil. The truth is that Dubai gets its money from tourism, services, and business; but especially from trade.

Ever since Dubai was established, they have relied heavily on trade with South Asia, the Persian Gulf and East Africa for their wealth and survival. The lack of taxes in Dubai attracted many traders to stop in and set up a base in Dubai without having to pay any price.

When oil was discovered in the 1960s, it did give a boost to the economy. I am not sure of the exact numbers, but I think oil accounted for only 50% of the economy in the early 1970s (and this was the largest percentage oil ever contributed). The rulers of Dubai invested the money gained by the oil industry into the trade and transportation sectors. This investment allowed for these industries to produce more and become more productive. And they have turned Dubai into what you see today. Actually, today oil only accounts for about 5% of their economy, and each year that percentage decreases.

I should also mention some information about oil in the United Arab Emirates as a whole. Abu Dhabi (the neighboring and larger emirate) produces about 80-90% of all the oil in the country. The other 10-20% is produced by the other six emirates, of which Dubai produces the most (because it is the largest of these other six). But still, that is a very small amount compared to other oil producing countries. And totally unrelated, but in 2006 we (the United States) were actually our largest supplier of oil, followed by Canada, then Mexico, then Saudi Arabia. See this New York Times map (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/11/06/business/20071107_WINNERSLOSERS_GRAPHIC.html#) for more interesting information. According to that map, the United Arab Emirates only supplied 9,000 barrels of oil each day to the United States in 2006. The United States supplied most of its oil with 8.3 million barrels each day. So, definitely Dubai does not get it money from us Phoenicians driving around in our cars.

Dubai might have a great looking skyline from afar, but from the pictures I've seen, the streetscape is worse then Phoenix's. The skyscrapers follow a long stretch of a 12 lane (or something like that) and probably resembles Midtown in Phoenix north of Camelback on Central...but with a freeway going down it instead of a normal street.

You are correct about that. Dubai has two skyscraper clusters. The one to which you are referring (which was also the first to develop) is along Sheikh Zayed Road between Trade Centre Roundabout and the First Interchange (but it has recently grown to the Second Interchange). The other skyscraper cluster includes Dubai Marina, Jumeirah Lake Towers, and TECOM.

The more proper name for Sheikh Zayed Road would be a highway and not a freeway (as of July 2007 it was no longer free due to a road toll). Skyscrapers line both sides of the highway. This makes Dubai unique and special. You may say that it is bad planning (which I might partly agree to), but it is just a different way of development. The organization and formation of cities in the West is not a method that is right or wrong. But, it is one of the ways (and the way we are used to). What you see in Dubai is just a way of growth that is currently working for Dubai. It should not be criticized, but admired. I should add that this “long stretch” is changing. Although it may appear to be one line, it has grown recently and is getting thicker with each month. Several skyscrapers are currently being built away from the road and will add greatly to the skyline.

Oh don't be so melodramatic. Phoenix is not Dubai in any way, please don't compare them.

You will be surprised at how similar the two cities are. You can compare them in so many ways.
Both Dubai and Phoenix:
- rely heavily on the private vehicle
- have a lot of transplants (here, people come from other states; in Dubai, people come from South Asia, Southeast Asia, and Europe)
- are experiencing a lot of growth
- have sprawl problems
- have similar climates
- do not have good/established downtowns
- have too many shopping malls
- have large portions of their economies based on real estate and tourism


I am sorry to interrupt the Sheraton discussion. I just get really frustrated when I read, hear, or see incorrect information about Dubai. If you would like to discuss this further, I would be happy to answer your questions.

Don B.
Feb 17, 2008, 1:57 PM
^ Good post and comments. Although, the biggest differences between the two cities:

1. Phoenix has very strong and vocal opposition to skyscrapers in general, because Phoenix has mountains and Dubai does not (Dubai being on the ocean and a port city is different as well). People here consider their views sacred and anything that might obstruct some people's views is debated endlessly. For some strange reason, we Americans feel the need to seek out and encourage "opinions" from every nincompoop in the city when something is proposed. Never mind the fact that most of the people taking the time to speak have no place at the table, for a myriad of reasons. This explains why we have asshats and other twits driving 20 miles in from the suburbs to bitch and moan about urban planning issues in downtown Phoenix.

2. Phoenix epitomizes the concept of laissez faire government. Our skyline is purely the result of the free market at work, with little government interference (other than the bullshit planning and zoning crap that goes on here almost anytime something more than 56 feet tall is proposed). Dubai, on the other hand, is a creature of top-heavy government funding and planning. The government directly subsidizes the construction of many of Dubai's skyscrapers, with the result looking like a cross between autotopia and Blade Runner.

So long as we keep these distinctions clear, then we will have a proper understanding of these two desert cities.

--don

HooverDam
Feb 17, 2008, 6:07 PM
2. Phoenix epitomizes the concept of laissez faire government. Our skyline is purely the result of the free market at work, with little government interference

Actually, this couldn't be less true. In a free market, we'd probably see more skyscrapers, not less. With out the government subsidizing sprawl via highways and other policies, we'd see much denser growth patterns. For instance, in a free market where corporations built the roads, do you think the SR 51 would've been built? Of course not, there's no way it could've been possible with out government force and eminent domain.

Now, I don't think Phoenix would be like NYC or anything (which was built pre car, and on an island), but I'd imagine our growth pattern would perhaps be more similar to say Chicago's.

But people have been blaming things on the free market when they weren't even observing a free market since Karl Marx, so I'm sure no amount of logic will change that.

PhxPavilion
Feb 17, 2008, 10:29 PM
There's no denying Dubai is what it is because of oil. All that money has alloyed the emirates to build whatever they want. They know oil isn't going to sustain them so they are attempting to build a tourist and business mecca for the future.

As far as Phoenix and Dubai goes, yes they have similar climates and terrain but your other points could be applied to other cities as well. Culturally, physically (except for the above) and government abound they are nothing alike.

HX_Guy
Feb 18, 2008, 9:35 PM
http://www.tynangroup.com/db_images/PhoenixSheraton11-16-07aerialsitephoto5(2).jpg

PHX NATIVE 929
Feb 18, 2008, 9:49 PM
:previous:

Nice shot. Where'd you find it?

HX_Guy
Feb 18, 2008, 9:52 PM
http://www.tynangroup.com/hospitality/project_detail.php?projectid=42

gymratmanaz
Feb 18, 2008, 10:41 PM
HX_Guy.....Are you Superman too?

HX_Guy
Feb 26, 2008, 6:01 AM
The terrace on the corner of 3rd and Van Buren seems pretty interesting, at least that is what I am assuming it to be...

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb25/2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb25/3.jpg


[img]http://nitnelav.com/DTFeb25/3.jpg

Upward
Feb 26, 2008, 7:15 AM
So, no shade structures?

gymratmanaz
Feb 26, 2008, 12:31 PM
I know. I keep waiting to see them being put on too!

PHXguyinOKC
Feb 26, 2008, 2:27 PM
i hope they do something on the big, bland, beige curve

PHX31
Feb 26, 2008, 3:30 PM
I saw that terrace thing too... is that going to be an extension of a lounge/restaurant, or just a place for people to hang out? Either way, it looks cool (would be better higher up, but still cool hanging almost over the street.

Azndragon837
Feb 27, 2008, 8:34 AM
Man that hotel design is already outdated.

-Andrew

JimInCal
Feb 27, 2008, 3:42 PM
:previous: Andrew, I think we need to spin reality a bit and call the design retro, or it will continue to haunt us. :cool:

gymratmanaz
Feb 27, 2008, 5:04 PM
I was thinking 70's retro too. Let's hold on to that idea. Maybe the staff will dress in 70's uniforms. Bring back polyester!!!!!

tempedude
Feb 27, 2008, 5:13 PM
Bring back polyester!!!!!

ewwww....gross. Thats sick! :gaah: :lmao:

(maybe you need a checkup from the neckup...LOL LOL J/K) :)

neworleans
Mar 4, 2008, 12:40 AM
i think i found something positive besides it being tall... at least the building has a smooth facade so the windows are flush w/ the buildings exterior.
i stayed in a hotel one time (the Indra Regent) and the windows were about 3 feet back and into the building. The outside had diamond shape holes, so all you could see was through a diamond shape 3 feet out from the window. not a very good view and you could see all the dirt built up on the stucco outside the window

Azndragon837
Mar 5, 2008, 4:50 AM
:previous: Andrew, I think we need to spin reality a bit and call the design retro, or it will continue to haunt us. :cool:

Retro sounds good.....for like mid-century gems we have here in Phoenix. I am not going to continue beating a dead horse, but we got what we asked for: a skyline filler. :)

-Andrew

vwwolfe
Mar 16, 2008, 4:48 AM
I haven't been downtown in a couple weeks. Anyone know if they've started installing the shade structures on the south side of the building yet?

Off Topic: Has anyone seen the National Geographic special about the collapse at the Kansas City Hyatt? Very interesting. Construction footage of when they're building and news footage seconds after the disaster.

gymratmanaz
Mar 16, 2008, 1:48 PM
I thought the shade structures were going to be exterior awnings. They appear to be shade film attached to the inside of the windows, like a car would get tinting. They turn the window from a black look to a milky greyish-white color......Nothing to write home about....... I was hoping for awnings to add some depth....guess not.

HX_Guy
Mar 17, 2008, 7:21 PM
Update March 16.

http://nitnelav.com/DowntownMarch162008/sheraton1.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DowntownMarch162008/sheraton2.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DowntownMarch162008/sheraton3.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DowntownMarch162008/sheraton4.jpg

http://nitnelav.com/DowntownMarch162008/sheraton5.jpg

andrewkfromaz
Mar 17, 2008, 7:53 PM
The last one is actually pretty iconic. I think the slot looks cool. Possibly the Sher's best angle?

Sonoran_Dweller
Mar 17, 2008, 11:33 PM
Wow!! That building is so photogenic.

HooverDam
Mar 25, 2008, 8:41 PM
March 24th:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/HooverDam/downtown%20march%2008/DSC_0875.jpg?t=1206477411
Still no shade awnings on the south side

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/HooverDam/downtown%20march%2008/DSC_0873.jpg?t=1206477462
You can't really tell from this angle, but it looks like this area will be a pedestrian cut through area and maybe the area where the cars will pull up and unload their baggage. Its about half way between Taylor and Polk, it looks like it could end up being a nice shaded pedestrian short cut and will help reduce the somewhat superblock nature of the building.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/HooverDam/downtown%20march%2008/DSC_0883.jpg?t=1206477768
Those vents and the big blank wall sure are pretty!

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/HooverDam/downtown%20march%2008/DSC_0878.jpg?t=1206477721
Ground floor
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/HooverDam/downtown%20march%2008/DSC_0891.jpg?t=1206477613
This NE corner of downtown has really densified.

gymratmanaz
Mar 25, 2008, 8:56 PM
Will there actually be shade awnings on the south side? I thought that was the plan, but I get the feeling the shade film they are putting on the windows is it. Anyone know more???

HX_Guy
Apr 4, 2008, 5:57 PM
Sheraton Phoenix Downtown hits $52M goal for advance bookings six months ahead of schedule
The Business Journal of Phoenix

The Sheraton Phoenix Downtown, prepping for its October opening, has met its projections early for advance group bookings.

The goal was to hit $52 million in bookings by the hotel's fall debut, and they reached that figure by the end of March -- more than six months ahead of schedule.

Since sales efforts by the hotel and the Greater Phoenix Convention & Visitors Bureau began in early 2006, they have secured commitments from groups varying in size from 50 to 2,500 people. Bookings include European software giant SAP and the National Automobile Dealers Association.

The new Sheraton will have more than 80,000 square feet of meeting space, in 17 rooms that can accommodate up to 2,900 people, plus three outdoor function areas.

The hotel's Link Café, designed for informal meetings, will have free Internet access, soft seating and flat-panel TVs.

"Downtown Phoenix has emerged as a first-tier destination, and reaching this ambitious goal so far out is a testament to the quality of this city, this hotel and those people who have represented us so well," said Steve Spivak, director of sales and marketing at the new Sheraton. "Despite what's happening in the economy, we're encouraged by not only the number of commitments we've secured, but also the continued inquiries we're fielding from all different markets."

For more: www.sheraton.com/phoenixdowntown.
.

wissundevil06
Apr 4, 2008, 6:26 PM
I'm not going to judge this building until it has been completed. I really think this building might look better then many believe.

gymratmanaz
Apr 4, 2008, 6:50 PM
It is growing on many of us I think.

kevininlb
Apr 4, 2008, 7:01 PM
Hey, if nothing else, its wrapping the Republic makes that building look like a real city office building rather than the sorta generic suburban medical building it looked like on its own.

HooverDam
Apr 4, 2008, 10:34 PM
I'm not going to judge this building until it has been completed. I really think this building might look better then many believe.

The exterior is more or less done, whats left to wait on? I doubt the potential south side shade awnings are going to make or break it looking fantastic.

gymratmanaz
Apr 4, 2008, 11:27 PM
The awnings will help, lighting, landscaping, and other finishing touches will make some dramtic changes believe it or not.

Sometimes you can pollish a turd!!!!!!

HooverDam
Apr 8, 2008, 3:05 AM
Watching the D'backs game tonight and you can see the Sheraton out of the Left Center field windows and panels. Now if only the Garage Mahal would be knocked down and replaced with something better, the views from the stands would be pretty cool.

gymratmanaz
Apr 8, 2008, 4:26 AM
You beat me to it HOOVER. I just got home from the game and was going to say the same thing about seeing the Sheraton.....and the top of the convention center!!!!!

neworleans
Apr 20, 2008, 4:55 AM
according to their website, the sheraton opens October 1, 2008

loftlovr
Apr 24, 2008, 12:48 AM
Some other work by the architect. A buddy posted this on my forum- I thought it was worthy of posting here-

Apparently Arquitectonica made quite the name for themselves in Miami area in the early 80's. They designed the hotel with the cut out see-through hole in the center of the building with palm trees shown in Miami Vice, and the Pink house which was in a Miami Vice episode where a drug dealer owned the home.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis_Condominium

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060223/NEWS/60223028/-1/SPECIAL15

http://www.miamism.com/the-pink-house-miami-shores-florida

http://miamivisionblogarama.blogspot.com/2007/06/architecture-god-has-spoken.html

Miami Vice intro (never gets old):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eYM9wHLHeM

They have done some cool stuff- so why such a dismal design for Sheraton?
http://www.arquitectonica.com/

Does tax payer money equate to low quality design?
Still wish DFD had their way!

PhxPavilion
Apr 26, 2008, 8:14 AM
Does tax payer money equate to low quality design?
Still wish DFD had their way!

From my experience working in the city, yes. The officials lack any kind of vision.

Don B.
Apr 26, 2008, 1:47 PM
A couple of new shots of the Sheraton:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/Phoenix/IMG_7980copy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/Phoenix/IMG_7983copy.jpg

--don

tempedude
Apr 26, 2008, 4:02 PM
^Well. Its certainly large and I'll definitely take it over what was there before. :)

I wonder if they are still planning on adding the window canopies on the south side of the tower. It doesn't look like they have yet.

Thanks for the photo update

gymratmanaz
Apr 27, 2008, 4:25 AM
I think they will add them once they finish the window shade film. The awning attachment pins are above all the windows waiting for the awnings to be attached

AZ KID
May 28, 2008, 2:08 AM
Cool pics from flicker via Brian Indrelunas.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2296/2521000046_f8b38930eb.jpg?v=0

and asu downtown with the sheraton in the background....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2410/2521003370_98d9311493.jpg?v=0

plinko
May 28, 2008, 3:37 AM
Awnings? Please?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20TEMPE%202008/080513-0519PHOENIX468.jpg

HX_Guy
May 28, 2008, 4:14 AM
Cool picture...and yea, those are definitely for awnings, so I'm guessing they will be eventually attached.

PHXistheBEST
May 29, 2008, 4:03 AM
Just wondering if anyone has any idea as to why the City of Phoenix owns this building and paid for the cost to build rather then the hotel pick up the money?

plinko
May 29, 2008, 8:46 AM
So in past postings in this thread I've been hesitant to post a final judgement of this building until I saw the relatively finished product in person. Having walked around the site just 10 days ago I finally have an idea what I think.

Pros: height (anything over 300' in PHX is welcome), place in the skyline (gap filler), slenderness on the E/W facades, and color flair (ASU colors? OK by me), functionality (it's a convention hotel so you can't expect the Four Seasons), awnings (if they are ever installed)

Cons: street presence (all the qualities of Holiday Inn), EIFS (cheap looking and in 10 years is going to look dismal), clumsiness in detail execution (the ballrooms are kind of clunked onto the thing and the facade has NO depth...anywhere), parapet design (what the hell? I though CofP required mechanical screening?)

If I had to give this building a 'rating'...I'd say 4/10. Once the awnings go up it'll go to a 5 in my book.

A few photos - nothing spectacular...but a few shots to show it in the skyline...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX421.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX463.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX466.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX476.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX610.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX778.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX895.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX972.jpg

Lastly...look at that parapet? I can't even imagine how this happened. If you can't cover the mechanical units with a 'roof', then at least make the parapet curves even to hide the equipment behind the tallest sections! Methinks this is value engineering at its finest...showing its wonderfully unintended and unfortunate consequences...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX802.jpg

If I had been the architect (seeing as it is what I do) and I had been given the likely rigid program and budget that Arquitectonica was given...hmmm...

1. If you have to use EIFS...never use landlord beige! I cringe to think what it's going to look like in a few years. Is it that much more expensive to clad it in a raw steel (or white) colored metal panel? How about eternit board? I f*cking hate EIFS. You can import real stone from India for cheaper than you can put up that crap.

2. Use a metal spandrel between the rooms...I don't know...copper?

3. Adjust the parapets so that the mechanical equipment gets hidden...all of it.

4. How about some color in the glass?

5. Specify a glazing system that insets the glass as far as possible to create exterior shadow lines. The system as installed has no depth and is particularly disastrous along the large mirror glass wall at the ballrooms.

The above changes could easily have been made to the building at budgetary costs and I think the product would have been MUCH better.

Disappointing...but as I am no longer a Phoenix resident...I didn't pay for it!!!

westsider
May 29, 2008, 9:34 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/plinko923/PHOENIX%20-%20SHERATON/080513-0519PHOENIX421.jpg







I'm sorry, speaking as an outsider, but that is one of the ugliest new buildings I have ever seen. Everything about it from the shape, color, attached garage, weird orange and red stripes, it just screams third world. There is deplorable ugly and there is interesting ugly. If you are going to have a eyesore in your skyline it could at least look like this:




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/mdiederi/buildings/renders/ATKINS-DIFCCentral.jpg

Don B.
May 29, 2008, 3:18 PM
Plinko, in other words, those of us who prefer to refer to this monstrosity as the Tower of Mordor were right all along?

I distrinctly remember you "defending" the city on this project because of the cost issues, but the bottom line is this building does in fact look like the Stardust Casino Hotel in Las Vegas that was blown up recently. 1970s value engineering at best.

But then again, that's consistent with Phoenix and Arizona as the lowest common denominator city and state - let's not aspire to anything grand, let's do it (if we do it at all) as cheaply as possible.

--don

HooverDam
May 29, 2008, 3:53 PM
attached garage,

I agree that the building is heinous and a complete embarrassment, but it doesn't have an attached garage. All the garages in the photos have been there for a long time already.

I wonder how much egg on their face the City of Phoenix will end up with on this one. I imagine we could be seeing something like the pots scandal version 2.0. I suppose if the hotel does good business people won't mind, but architecturally speaking, anyone could tell you the thing is an abortion.

westsider
May 29, 2008, 9:27 PM
Maybe you could send it's plans to Al-Qaeda with a map quest so they could blow it up.

plinko
May 29, 2008, 10:39 PM
Plinko, in other words, those of us who prefer to refer to this monstrosity as the Tower of Mordor were right all along?

I distrinctly remember you "defending" the city on this project because of the cost issues, but the bottom line is this building does in fact look like the Stardust Casino Hotel in Las Vegas that was blown up recently. 1970s value engineering at best.

But then again, that's consistent with Phoenix and Arizona as the lowest common denominator city and state - let's not aspire to anything grand, let's do it (if we do it at all) as cheaply as possible.

--don

Except that the Stardust you refer to was built in 1989! :D

No, I don't think this tower is a complete disaster...I still don't. Truthfully if it pays for itself in a few years thanks to the conventioneers then it's a total success for the city. The shape and form of the hotel is the most efficient possible for that site. I'm just being architecturally nit-picky (that and most architects are rarely in agreement on aesthetics...it's the joy of working for others for years and then you finally get your own shot).

I should add another major con for the hotel though...no restaurant on top. That's one thing that the new Denver Westin got right.

Still, if I was the city, I'd be highly disappointed most the the way the parapet/roof turned out. It really looks clumsily executed (like I said, VE at its finest and everybody just has to live with it).

I'm looking forward to seeing it again once it's opened. Maybe its street facades will be the saving grace.

Quick note, it's likely that there might be a 'public' window at each end of each floor given the configuration. Would be wonderful for east and west skyline views (and less restrictive than the Compass Room).

plinko
May 29, 2008, 10:49 PM
I was digging through this thread and found this post by HX_Guy...hmmmm...maybe this 'mesh' is still to be installed? (after they finish the remaining facade work). Wishful thinking probably...I had it in my head that the roof was to be covered with a panel system of some sort (don't know where I got that).

This isn't the most exciting hotel ever to be built, but at least there is a little something to get excited about...

"The roof of the hotel tower has a meshlike material that allows lighting below to “glow” and be seen throughout downtown."

http://www.starwoodhotels.com//pub/media/1703/she1703ex.35250_lg.jpg

You can sort of see the effect they are talking about in the renderings.

Don B.
May 29, 2008, 11:33 PM
^ I remember seeing that post as well. I'm not sure why they would not have added the mesh panels by now if they were going to add them - especially while the crane was there.

Unless they intend to run the stuff up through the cargo elevator in the hotel?

Either way it is a pathetic structure for over $350 million. Hopefully I will live long enough to see it imploded, probably in 2026 or something like that.

--don

CANUC
May 29, 2008, 11:55 PM
I was digging through this thread and found this post by HX_Guy...hmmmm...maybe this 'mesh' is still to be installed? (after they finish the remaining facade work). Wishful thinking probably...I had it in my head that the roof was to be covered with a panel system of some sort (don't know where I got that).

Plinko, the only thing is that if you go to their website that little bit of information seems to have disappeared. No mention of a mesh roof nor any mention of the rendered pool on the north side of building. It seems some things may have been dropped; value engineering? If that is the case the north roof of the lower section will become a dirt incrusted eye sore to visitors, in need of a serious cleaning much like the roof of Chase Field and the view that you get from the upper floors of the Wyndham.

HX_Guy
May 30, 2008, 5:40 AM
Plinko, the only thing is that if you go to their website that little bit of information seems to have disappeared. No mention of a mesh roof...

It's still on the website:

http://comingsoon.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton_phoenix/features.htm

tempedude
May 30, 2008, 2:32 PM
Since the new Sheraton Hotel downtown is a Starwood brand, I thought it might be interesting to post some links (details, photos, and renderings included) to all of the new or upcoming Starwood brand hotels in the Phoenix area.

Yeah yeah..........I know this thread is supposed to be for the Sheraton only...but have a look anyway if you wish. :)

Okay this one is a no brainer - Sheraton downtown Phoenix:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1703

Four Points Tempe (This used to be the Holiday Inn on Rural Rd. just south of Apache, recently underwent extensive renovation where the whole building was gutted and redone - pool area included):
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/fourpoints/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3064

Aloft Phoenix - Airport:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3174

Aloft Tempe:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3102

W Hotel Scottsdale:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/whotels/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=1736

Aloft Glendale:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3180

Aloft Chandler:
http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3033

edit: oooppps - I misspelled Phoenix in the header.

Daltnpapi4u
May 30, 2008, 5:57 PM
Since the new Sheraton Hotel downtown is a Starwood brand, I thought it might be interesting to post some links (details, photos, and renderings included) to all of the new or upcoming Starwood brand hotels in the Phoenix area.

Yeah yeah..........I know this thread is supposed to be for the Sheraton only...but have a look anyway if you wish. :)

edit: oooppps - I misspelled Phoenix in the header.


Sadly you cant find any information about Le Meridien anymore on any of their sites.. has this been canceled?

PhxSprawler
May 30, 2008, 5:58 PM
:previous: Note that the Chandler Aloft hotel has decreased two stories and is delayed due over its modern design as opposed to the surrounding Mission style.

Sekkle
May 30, 2008, 6:24 PM
Sadly you cant find any information about Le Meridien anymore on any of their sites.. has this been canceled?

This is from an article recently posted in the Tempe thread...
Woes in the condo market delayed a hotel/condo project at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. A Le Meridien hotel with some condos was supposed to open by year's end but hasn't broken ground.

Lenders demanded a hotel-only project, Levin said, which forced a new design. A new plan and new hotel operator will come forth in a few weeks and construction should start soon, he said.

tempedude
May 30, 2008, 6:28 PM
The hotel is expected to break ground in just a few weeks...and far as I know...Its still the Le Meridien...hotel only.

tempedude
May 31, 2008, 12:14 AM
This is from an article recently posted in the Tempe thread...Woes in the condo market delayed a hotel/condo project at Hayden Ferry Lakeside. A Le Meridien hotel with some condos was supposed to open by year's end but hasn't broken ground.

Lenders demanded a hotel-only project, Levin said, which forced a new design. A new plan and new hotel operator will come forth in a few weeks and construction should start soon, he said.


I jumped the gun...you are correct. There is a hotel breaking ground at Hayden Ferry Lakeside soon...but who the operator will be hasn't been announced yet.

I retract my statement about it being Le Meridien, jumped the gun and assumed too much. Sorry.

neworleans
Jun 1, 2008, 5:43 AM
Another pro about the sheraton is that most of the people will have good views from there rooms
i stayed in a hotel one time where the windows were inward about 4ft from the outside of the building, and the outside of the building resembled a diamond shape grid... in other words, all i could see was through a diamond shape hole 4ft out from the window.

PHX31
Jun 4, 2008, 9:07 PM
An update:

According to Steve Spivak, Sales & Marketing Director, things are moving along at a fever pitch at the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel and they are on schedule for the October 1st opening of Arizona's largest hotel and the first hotel to open in Downtown Phoenix since 1976.
Recent notable progress includes dramatic glass chandeliers being hung in the Lobby, the Egyptian stone has been mounted on the walls and the limestone tile is being laid on the floor. The dramatic restaurant and wine bar is also taking shape and it promises to attract people to downtown all on its own. The tower guestrooms are coming along even faster than the ground floor is. At this time, a full 19 of 31 floors are furnished and punched, meaning they just need the bed, the TV, and a guest to enjoy the view!


Sheraton has formed key partnerships with both Core Performance and Microsoft to deliver "state of the art" experiences to guests with both comprehensive exercise programs and technology capabilities. The new Hotel will feature a multi-purpose area that will serve as a social space, internet café, and relaxation area, all with the ability to connect to those you love or those you "report to" via complimentary internet. The internet experience will go beyond "wifi" and will feature Microsoft Surface. This is the latest in interactive web based media, transporting you wherever the web and your imagination can take you, all with just the touch of a screen. In the Link at Sheraton you will also enjoy the Link Café, featuring signature food items, Starbucks Coffee, and a selection of Beer and Wine to help you wind down.

In December, Leo Percopo from the Phoenician, joined the team as the General Manager, coming over from The Phoenician. Leo brings his five star resort pedigree to this downtown convention destination. In July, the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel recruitment center will open at the Arizona Center, with the goal of hiring 600 employees.

The sales team has exceeded their goal of 52 million dollars in advanced bookings over 6 months ahead of schedule. On October 1st, at 10 AM a ribbon-cutting ceremony will be held signifying the opening of the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel. On October 11th, the Sheraton will hold a Gala Dinner and Dance, themed "Changing the Phoenix Skyline" to celebrate their Grand Opening. This Gala will be a fundraiser for their community philanthropic partner, the UMOM New Day Center.

HX_Guy
Jun 4, 2008, 10:01 PM
http://phoenix.gov/PUBMEETC/1020.html

Pursuant to A.R.S. Section 38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the Downtown Phoenix Hotel Corporation and to the general public, that the Downtown Phoenix Hotel corporation will hold a meeting open to the public on June 5, 2008 at 11:00 am at Arizona Center – Suite 365 Conference Room, at 455 North 3rd Street, Phoenix, Arizona. One or more of the members may participate via teleconference call. Agenda items may be taken out of order.



The agenda for the meeting is as follows:

1.


Call to Order


David Krietor

2.


Approval of the Minutes


Board Members

Est: 5 minutes

Pages 3-4

3.


Construction Update

The hotel general contractor will present a status update on the design and construction of the hotel.

This item is for discussion


Ken Schacherbauer

Est: 10 minutes

Verbal Report

4.


Hotel Marketing and Sales Update

Sheraton will present a summary of its sales and marketing plan and describe its resources, strategies and hotel marketing efforts to date pursuant to the pre-opening agreement.

This item is for discussion


Leo Percopo

Est: 10 minutes

Page 5

5.


Hotel Restaurant Presentation

Staff will present the concept and name for the hotel restaurant.

This item is for discussion


Jerry Harper

Leo Percopo

Est: 10 minutes

Page 6

6.


Architectural Contract Amendment

The Board of Directors will consider transferring project funds to amend the Architectural Construction Administration and Inspection Services contract.

This item is for discussion and possible action


Jerry Harper

Brian Nystuen

Est: 5 minutes

Page 7

7.


Interior Designer Contract Amendment

The Board of Directors will consider transferring project funds to amend the Interior Designer Construction Administration and Inspection Services contract.

This item is for discussion and possible action


Jerry Harper

Brian Nystuen

Est: 5 Minutes

Page 8







8.


City Staff Position

The Board of Directors will consider creating a city staff position to assist in the management of Hotel Corporation during the hotel’s operation.

This item is for discussion and possible action


Jerry Harper

Jeff DeWitt

Est: 5 minutes

Page 9





9.


Construction Site Tour

The Board of Directors and others in attendance will tour the hotel construction site.

This item is for discussion


Ken Schacherbauer

Est: 10 minutes

10.


Call to the Public

Consideration, discussion and concerns from the public. Those wishing to address the Board need not request permission in advance. Action taken as a result of the public comment will be limited to directing staff to study the matter or rescheduling the matter for future consideration and decision at a later date.


David Krietor

11.


Request for Future Agenda Items


David Krietor

12.


Adjournment


David Krietor

Don B.
Jun 4, 2008, 10:42 PM
On October 1st, at 10 AM a ribbon-cutting ceremony will be held signifying the opening of the Sheraton Phoenix Downtown Hotel. On October 11th, the Sheraton will hold a Gala Dinner and Dance, themed "Changing the Phoenix Skyline" to celebrate their Grand Opening. This Gala will be a fundraiser for their community philanthropic partner, the UMOM New Day Center.

On October 2, Sauron will take up residence in his newly constructed Tower of Mordor, and his baleful eye (lidless, wreathed in fire and flame) will gaze upon Phoenix's diminished skyline forevermore (or at least until Frodo climbs Mount Doom -- a/k/a Piestewa Peak -- with the One Ring).

:)

--don

Vicelord John
Jun 5, 2008, 12:13 AM
On October 2, Sauron will take up residence in his newly constructed Tower of Mordor, and his baleful eye (lidless, wreathed in fire and flame) will gaze upon Phoenix's diminished skyline forevermore (or at least until Frodo climbs Mount Doom -- a/k/a Piestewa Peak -- with the One Ring).

:)

--donnerd alert.

:haha:

Don B.
Jun 5, 2008, 6:09 AM
^ Ahem. At least I wear undershirts under my thin cheap dress shirts so I don't look like a young Archie Bunker. Seeing your five chest hairs and nipples under your dress shirt does NOT a classy look make.

Zing! :)

Besides, being in prison tends to negate a lot of nerdiness. For life. :D

--don

plinko
Jun 5, 2008, 7:25 AM
Somebody should go to this meeting and find out when the shade structures are going up and if they are going to fix the roof.

Don B.
Jun 5, 2008, 1:53 PM
^ On such short notice? In the middle of the workday? Probably not gonna happen.

But yes, it would be nice to know if those two design elements are going to happen.

Personally, I think Sauron is keeping the roof clear so he can put his eye up there.

:D

--don

combusean
Jun 5, 2008, 2:18 PM
^ I might have time today... I love working from home! :)

plinko
Jun 5, 2008, 4:52 PM
Were the LOTR movies *THAT* exciting? I mean they were decent books...when I was 11... :rolleyes:

Anyway, hope some new info comes out of the meeting...

Vicelord John
Jun 5, 2008, 7:17 PM
I didn't even find them exciting when i was 11... I was too busy drinking/smoking/chasing skirts... and yes I was doing that at 11

PHX31
Jun 5, 2008, 7:34 PM
/\ nobody cares

Vicelord John
Jun 5, 2008, 7:56 PM
I was kidding, and stfu. :)

Don B.
Jun 5, 2008, 8:07 PM
Were the LOTR movies *THAT* exciting? I mean they were decent books...when I was 11... :rolleyes:

Anyway, hope some new info comes out of the meeting...

You haven't seen the LOTR trilogy? Best movies in recent history, IMHO.

"The board is set, the pieces are in motion."

"Can you give that to them, Frodo? Some who live deserve to die, and some who die deserve to live. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

--don

combusean
Jun 5, 2008, 8:47 PM
I attended the meeting today.

There's ostensibly going to be a "soft opening" within the next couple weeks.

The restaraunt will be called District: American Kitchen and WIne Bar.

Sheraton food and bev gurus are finalizing it. There is a core difference made here as this is a freestanding restaurant rather than the restaurant within the hotel which is intended to drive business to both i guess.

The basic work is mostly done. They are working on FFE. Good lead time averted FFE issues with the restaraunt. Flow is critical for final design and communication. They are going to be in the restaurant and the GM will be talking to every table which to me embodies customer service.

The city has officially abandoned Copper Square. The DPP has not.

The prices for entrees will be about $18 and up but they are trying to have mixed prices, eg, get two small plates instead of a whole big entree.

The design of the restaurant will be very fluid and will accomodate as necessary. I specifically asked about live music and it seems they'll be able to make a lot of options work.

The county split the hotel's food permit into 10, which each require separate apps--evidently the County has never done anything this "big" before. Fire considerations have caused last minute design tweaks. There's about $750k in a reserve account, which might be down to $450k after what they've spent today, but there is a corporation expense line item on the city budget.

The new City position will interface with many parties: starwood, the city, the asset manager, and according to Krietor, help the hotel become a "focal point for downtown."

I have more details on some of the questions being asked here.

But I promise you after I post interior stabilized SLR photos of the whole shebang under construction they won't matter.

I can honestly say today after taking the construction progress tour this hotel is worth every fucking penny.

HX_Guy
Jun 5, 2008, 8:52 PM
What about the exterior shade awnings? And the roof?

PHX31
Jun 5, 2008, 8:59 PM
I can honestly say today after taking the construction progress tour this hotel is worth every fucking penny.

Wow, either you were really impressed, or are being really sarcastic. I think it is the former, but with everyone's constant bitching on this tower, I wouldn't be surprised if it were the latter. It is hard to believe that it is worth every penny of one third of one billion dollars, but maybe it is. I'll wait for your pictures or more info (including HX Guy's questions above everyone is wondering about).

combusean
Jun 5, 2008, 9:11 PM
^ I am being for real.

PHX NATIVE 929
Jun 5, 2008, 10:00 PM
I didn't even find them exciting when i was 11... I was too busy drinking/smoking/chasing skirts... and yes I was doing that at 11

Oooooohhh, what a badass! (reaction you needed?)

tempedude
Jun 5, 2008, 10:17 PM
I have more details on some of the questions being asked here.

But I promise you after I post interior stabilized SLR photos of the whole shebang under construction they won't matter.

I can honestly say today after taking the construction progress tour this hotel is worth every fucking penny.

I am looking forward to seeing the photos. I hope you can give us more detail about the roof and window shades. :)

Don B.
Jun 5, 2008, 10:45 PM
I have no doubt the interior of the hotel is nice. But compared to the bland exterior, it reminds me of a turd covered with frosting (or in this case, a turd on the outside, but tasty on the inside). At the end of the day, we still have a slab-sided piece of uninspired ick 1970s Las Vegas casino architecture that will dominate our skyline for decades to come.

Besides, Sauron would have nothing less in his Tower of Mordor. Of course it is going to be finely furnished.

I wish the city could have just spent a few more dollars to make building actually look interesting. We could have had this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/eeeee.jpg

But instead got this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/don85259/New%20Phoenix%20projects/stardustcopy.jpg

--don

HX_Guy
Jun 5, 2008, 10:48 PM
While the DFD CornoyerHedrick exterior is nice, the way it connects to the street seems much worse then the Sheraton. It seems way setback and suburban in design at the street level.

HX_Guy
Jun 5, 2008, 10:49 PM
I hope you can give us more detail about the roof and window shades. :)

Window shades are still a go, roof has been axed and will remain as is.

Don B.
Jun 5, 2008, 10:53 PM
Window shades are still a go, roof has been axed and will remain as is.

No!!!! The eye! The baleful eye!!! AIGGHGHHHHHHH!!!!!!! IT BURNS!!!!!!!!!

:)

But seriously, without the roof cover, you can see in to the fake facade and supports and equipment dotted around. Just tops it off nicely.

:brickwall:

--don

Vicelord John
Jun 6, 2008, 12:22 AM
Oooooohhh, what a badass! (reaction you needed?)

no I already said I was kidding.

and sean, what is so great? the inside? obviously its the inside... haha.

HooverDam
Jun 6, 2008, 4:56 AM
Meh, while I guess I'm happy the inside will be nice, how often will the people who helped pay for it ever stay there? Maybe once, if ever. But we'll all have to look at the abomination that is the exterior every day.

PhxPavilion
Jun 6, 2008, 10:50 AM
Personally, I think Sauron is keeping the roof clear so he can put his eye up there.

It would be nice if it resembled the tower of mordor actually. The Sheraton is not a tall, slender, black tower; it is a wide, beige, short tower. I'm stumped as to where you see the resemblance.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6a/Mordor.png/300px-Mordor.png

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/pub/media/1703/she1703ex.35251_md.jpg

/\ nobody cares

Zing! :haha:

PHXguyinOKC
Jun 6, 2008, 11:50 AM
"T'was in the darkest depths of Mordor
I met a girl so fair
But Gollum and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her, her, her, her, her... yeah..."

gymratmanaz
Jun 6, 2008, 1:19 PM
Yesterday I watched a damn tall crane lift the dirt bags (Not Vandercook...lol) and box trees onto the pool level. It was impressive. I was kind of hoping they were using the crane for the window shades. It almost reached the top of the building with the top of the crane...... I kinda figure they will do the window shades from inside each window or lower a platform for the window waching apparatus.

Don B.
Jun 6, 2008, 1:37 PM
It would be nice if it resembled the tower of mordor actually. The Sheraton is not a tall, slender, black tower; it is a wide, beige, short tower. I'm stumped as to where you see the resemblance.

It's a euphemism. The resemblence is the fear and loathing that the Tower of Mordor and the Downtown Sheraton strike into the hearts of men, hobbits and elves - the people of Middle Earth and Phoenix, who both had this thing foisted on them with no public input.

I knew when the selection process was so secret that we were going to get a hideous design, and my fears were completely realized. I knew then that the city council was beholden to Sauron via his rings of power:

One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

:)

--don

Downtown_resident
Jun 6, 2008, 3:10 PM
I can honestly say today after taking the construction progress tour this hotel is worth every fucking penny.

I don't disagree that it's worth every penny. The problem is that judging from its hyper-value-engineered exterior, the city didn't spend very many pennies.

http://downtownphoenix.blogspot.com

PHX31
Jun 6, 2008, 4:07 PM
/\ It is possible that they VE'd the shit out of the exterior, with the intent of making it luxurious and amazing as hell inside for the out of town conventioners that will be using it to give them a good impression and a very comfortable, fun stay while in Phoenix... because, after all, that really is the point of it. And, as with everything dealing with our (the people of this forum) skyscraper and urbanity fetish, we seem to forget that 95% of the world really doesn't give a crap what a specific building or skyline or city looks like. You think someone from the upcoming NRA convention would look at the DFD Cornoyer Hedrick building differently than the "Tower of Mordor"??? The differences would be indistinguishable, and they could care less about the exterior. But I guarantee you if the inside was VE'd or the furnishings and poshness was made subpar, they'd definitely be able to tell the difference and would remember that forever.

They might stand outside for 2 seconds and look at the exterior of the building... but they'll spend hours and nights soaking up the inside of the building. What is more important? What should a bulk of the money be spent on? Exactly.

gymratmanaz
Jun 6, 2008, 4:25 PM
PHX31 - Well said.

I would love to check out the interior. Is there a way to do that yet?

HX_Guy
Jun 6, 2008, 4:52 PM
There was at the meeting yesterday that Combusean attended. They will probably have another meeting before it open.

Don B.
Jun 6, 2008, 5:40 PM
Phx31, I disagree with your assessment. Enough people do care about what buildings look like that this structure will negatively affect their opinion of the city.

We have some anecdotal evidence already - one of the forumers mentioned their dad (who presumably has no interest in tall buildings or architectural design) seeing the Tower of Mordor (hereinafter "ToM"), and their reaction was something like this:

What the hell is that?

Oh, that's the new downtown Sheraton Hotel.

Well, it looks like a prison.

:haha:

My uncle (who owns HMN Architects - they generally build hospitals) also made some interesting disparaging comments when I showed it to him. Kind of along the lines of what Plinko wrote earlier - "value engineering at worst."

Cool buildings make people want to come inside and visit, check it out, look at it, etc. The ToM repulses many people. Why would you want to spend $200 a night to stay in a jacked up beige Motel 6?

--don