[Hungry]

Very exciting project!! I really do hope this kicks off this year.

Do you know how I could find out the approx. dimensions of the first/second floor retail spaces along 2nd avenue? I've been looking for a great location for an upscale restaurant and this project has definitely caught my eye. The second floor space at the NW corner looks interesting but I'm worried it might be too narrow. I'm also intrigued by the NE corner spaces though they are specified as retail only at the moment. And a couple renderings seem to suggest the first floor retail spaces have room for a mezzanine - is there actually enough ceiling height for that?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've been looking for the right space for quite awhile and this project has got me excited. I know it's early to be looking into this as a retail tenant but if this location does work for what we want to do we would be a major retail tenant and it would be ideal to coordinate as early as possible with the developer.

Thanks

[Wooster]

I would call the leasing agent directly:

http://www.calgarycitycentre.ca/contact.html

Bryan Walsh
CBRE Richard Eillis
403.750.0524

I'm sure he could give you all the exact specs.

Yay for high end restaurant there!

[stampedeyeehaa]

I guess Demo is to begin around April

[craner]

:previous:Exciting news - It will be great to see some tangeble action on this one. :banana:

That was the old proposal. Thread master did not change it. The old proposal was for an office bulding of 53 stories & 216 meters. But that was 4 -5 years ago.

Ahhh - what could have been.:tantrum:
Why does nothing ever get upsized ?

[TallBob]

Yep. 216 meters would have been nice alright, but that area is subject to shadowing bylaws. Still. a little taller on both office and the hotel/condo would'nt probably do any damage too the surrounding area, but I'm sure they've got figured out pretty well.

[Hungry]

I would call the leasing agent directly:

http://www.calgarycitycentre.ca/contact.html

Bryan Walsh
CBRE Richard Eillis
403.750.0524

I'm sure he could give you all the exact specs.

Yay for high end restaurant there!




Thanks for the suggestion Wooster. We did get in touch with them but they are only talking to potential office tenants at this time. So unfortunately it looks like I'll have to wait to get an idea of the retail dimensions so we can see how the space would work for our restaurant concept.

If in the meantime anyone comes across some approx dimensions for the retail spaces along the north facade I would greatly appreciate any info. We have a very cool, unique and high design concept but we aren't a major chain or restaurant group so we'll definitely be an underdog going for the space and the more advance planning we can do the better our chances to impress the landlord.

[MichaelS]

Thanks for the suggestion Wooster. We did get in touch with them but they are only talking to potential office tenants at this time. So unfortunately it looks like I'll have to wait to get an idea of the retail dimensions so we can see how the space would work for our restaurant concept.

If in the meantime anyone comes across some approx dimensions for the retail spaces along the north facade I would greatly appreciate any info. We have a very cool, unique and high design concept but we aren't a major chain or restaurant group so we'll definitely be an underdog going for the space and the more advance planning we can do the better our chances to impress the landlord.

When is the public allowed to see the DP submission? After approval? It might have some of the dimensions on there you are looking for. Fusili or Wooster (or anyone else)?

[mersar]

When is the public allowed to see the DP submission? After approval? It might have some of the dimensions on there you are looking for. Fusili or Wooster (or anyone else)?

Easiest will be when it goes to CPC, though some times they don't break down individual bays, but usually they do.

[simmer2]

Construction is slated for late 12, but most likely 2013.

[unibrain]

I believe a presentation centre for City Centre is being constructed in the base of Jamieson Place. Should be really nice when it's finished.

[Wooster]

Presentation Centre for office? Are they moving ahead with the residential/hotel tower?

[Reesonov]

Presentation Centre for office? Are they moving ahead with the residential/hotel tower?

That would be great news, if true.

[unibrain]

Presentation Centre for office? Are they moving ahead with the residential/hotel tower?

Im sure the presentation centre will be for the residential/hotel portion of the project, but as it's a mixed use, it's more than likely to get the word out there about the project as a whole. With the way condo projects have been going recently, I wouldnt be surprised if the residential/hotel portion gets under way shortly after the commercial component.. or perhaps vice versa.

[LeftCoaster]

Presentation Centre for office? Are they moving ahead with the residential/hotel tower?

Some changes may have happened to the plans which will be making the residential tower a little more attractive ;)

Nothing is for sure yet, which is why I haven't said anything, but it's looking better for tower 2.

[s211]

Im sure the presentation centre will be for the residential/hotel portion of the project, but as it's a mixed use, it's more than likely to get the word out there about the project as a whole. With the way condo projects have been going recently, I wouldnt be surprised if the residential/hotel portion gets under way shortly after the commercial component.. or perhaps vice versa.

I would certainly hope so, otherwise why would bcIMC lease space to CF so that CF could advertise a competing office building?

[Reesonov]

Some changes may have happened to the plans which will be making the residential tower a little more attractive ;)

Nothing is for sure yet, which is why I haven't said anything, but it's looking better for tower 2.

Sounds like they're close to finalizing an agreement with a hotel partner. That's pretty exciting.

[TallBob]

Maybe they'll add a few floors to City Center.... Don't I wish!

[Bigtime]

Construction is slated for late 12, but most likely 2013.

Still a ways off, but I guess good things come to those that wait!

Some changes may have happened to the plans which will be making the residential tower a little more attractive ;)

Nothing is for sure yet, which is why I haven't said anything, but it's looking better for tower 2.

Interesting, really want to see this sucker break ground. Another step in the new evolution of the Eau Claire area.

[LeftCoaster]

Sounds like they're close to finalizing an agreement with a hotel partner. That's pretty exciting.

Hotel partner has been chosen for a while, it's a different change.

Big development today on the project as well, should be announced publicly soon.

[suburb]

Hotel partner has been chosen for a while, it's a different change.

Big development today on the project as well, should be announced publicly soon.

It is great that they are at this stage.

Yeah - I believe the hotel partner was set some time ago, but the hotel didn't want their name revealed should the project not be a go. Clearly the numbers are making sense now :)

[Surrealplaces]

Hotel partner has been chosen for a while, it's a different change.

Big development today on the project as well, should be announced publicly soon.

Awesome, looking forward to hearing about it!

[craner]

I'm giddy with anticipation about this one - especially the hotel/Res tower.
looking forward to an announcement very soon.

[Reesonov]

Yeah, anticipation is killing me. This would be a big project for Eau Claire.

[TallBob]

The Shadowing enforcement squad left town and City Center (1 & 2) are going to be taller.

[JBinCalgary]

i still drool at the original design. it would have been the nice tower in canada!

[TallBob]

JB: I agree! A 216-220 meter tower would have been great. But we'll have to see how this new proposal works out. I like the Hotel/Residential componant of this new proposal over the office, and I hope it gets built first.

[JBinCalgary]

Does anyone have a copy of the original rendering?

[s211]

Does anyone have a copy of the original rendering?

You don't want to see it. It was one of the most Vegas-aped designs you'll ever see. It was a total caricature.

[Wooster]

I'm guessing he's actually referring to the second iteration, which had shards of glass popping out the top section of the building. It was a pretty neat design.

This current proposal though is better overall I'd say, particularly at the ground level.

[JBinCalgary]

You don't want to see it. It was one of the most Vegas-aped designs you'll ever see. It was a total caricature.

Oh but i do! and have seen the design, it reminded me of a crystal shard protruding from the earths core. I would go so far as to say it was boner worthy! Seriously though IMO it was the most risky design calgary had seen at the time as far as proposals go, I do however like the redesign. Just a little simple, the original design would have been a mould breaker for the city.

[JBinCalgary]

scroll on down to the bottom of page 3, to see the image, also the original rendering was on skyscrapercity in the city centre thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=509643

http://www.google.ca/search?q=city+centre+design+calgary&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=ZsZTT9OFAcHJ0AGQhd3zDQ&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CCEQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=629#hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=vsZTT66iD6fq0gG9z4S4DQ&ved=0CDsQvwUoAQ&q=city+centre+rendering+calgary&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=b8c047162f6a0624&biw=1280&bih=629

[TallBob]

I kind of like that older proposal of CC. Damn Shadow Bylaw.

[s211]

Oh but i do! and have seen the design, it reminded me of a crystal shard protruding from the earths core. I would go so far as to say it was boner worthy! Seriously though IMO it was the most risky design calgary had seen at the time as far as proposals go, I do however like the redesign. Just a little simple, the original design would have been a mould breaker for the city.

For clarity, that was not the original design for the site.

[JBinCalgary]

Oh your referring to the Chrysler tower rubbish. yeah that was friggin garbage. I remember it having a four tower complex with a hotel office and condos. Barf

[s211]

Oh your referring to the Chrysler tower rubbish. yeah that was friggin garbage. I remember it having a four tower complex with a hotel office and condos. Barf

Bingo. Kitch incarnate.

[kw5150]

What? This fugly thing?? lol

http://www.emporis.com/images/show/140223-Large.jpg

http://www.emporis.com/images/show/140223-Large.jpg

[Tropics]

JB: I agree! A 216-220 meter tower would have been great. But we'll have to see how this new proposal works out. I like the Hotel/Residential componant of this new proposal over the office, and I hope it gets built first.

In this instance I like this shorter design better, it helps the city "taper" towards downtown in a better fashion, the original design would have created too much of a "wall" effect on the riverfront.

Plus with this design I love how they incorperated the gardens and trees above ground level on multiple tiers, it is about time we started to see more of that in Calgary. The multi-story entrance on their website that has the palm trees and waterfall in the background looks absolutely nuts too, in a very good way.

I am very happy with this design, get these guys to redesign the Herald Square IMO. Heck take the old City Center design and put that on the HS site,, we get both designs and lose the Herald Square box, win/win/win.

[brentwood]

Regarding Herald Square... even something as simple as rotating the tower 90 degrees would be an improvement. It would finally add a little variety to the orientation of buildings in the downtown. But I think a better design, especially for the top of the building would be preferable.

[You Need A Thneed]

Regarding Herald Square... even something as simple as rotating the tower 90 degrees would be an improvement. It would finally add a little variety to the orientation of buildings in the downtown. But I think a better design, especially for the top of the building would be preferable.

Do you know what happens when you rotate a square 90 degrees? ;)

[kw5150]

Do you know what happens when you rotate a square 90 degrees? ;)

lol, good catch.

[suburb]

Regarding Herald Square... even something as simple as rotating the tower 90 degrees would be an improvement. It would finally add a little variety to the orientation of buildings in the downtown. But I think a better design, especially for the top of the building would be preferable.

I agree that rotating it 45 degrees, or even an odd number of degrees (as an example, to square up to the Calgary Tower as a counterpoint to the Bow and the Tower) would make things more interesting. It would need to be managed at ground level though - using the land most efficiently, etc. Perhaps podium would need to remain, and then building above rotated. Of course, if thet don't protrude the corners out onto the street, it would decrease the floor plate. Hmmm - they then need to go taller of course :)

[brentwood]

Your right...ha! I meant 45 degrees. I knew I would get it wrong, and I'm supposed to be good with numbers. Funny thing is I can see the developers saying "hey why don't we rotate this thing 90 degrees and we will have an entirely new concept!"

[Elbownian]

Yup, 45 degrees will make all the difference! ;)

http://blinkassociates.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/diamond-shreddies-300x163.png

Couldn't resist! Sarcasm aside, it would be nice to see a few more things break up the "box" monotony.

[kap384]

Just heard today: Don Quijote's is closing down tonight. Demolition to start next Monday to make way for massive mixed-use tower project.


Hello Calgary City Centre! Goodbye north view of Jamieson!
:banana::banana:

[LeftCoaster]

Good news today guys, Calgary City Centre office portion officially is a go.

Was approved by Cadillac Fairview late last week and will begin construction asap.

[Jimby]

Good news today guys, Calgary City Centre office portion officially is a go.

Was approved by Cadillac Fairview late last week and will begin construction asap.

Good news, but not great news. I wish the whole block was being built at once, or at least up to the podium level like EAP did. The economics for new hotels must be iffy for downtown Calgary.

[LeftCoaster]

The economics for the hotel are actually fine, its the condos that are grounding the second phase.

[stampedeyeehaa]

The economics for the hotel are actually fine, its the condos that are grounding the second phase.

How will the plus 15 work? You would think even parking revenue would pay to have the entire podium built.

[LeftCoaster]

At this point there are several ideas as to how to stage the development. Obviously CF would still rather build the project as one phase, it is the preferred option for a number of reasons, but it simply may not be feasible.

With regards to the +15 the two which could be built and link into the office tower would be built and the third would be added when the residential/hotel building is completed. Currently there is a plan in the works to reconfigure the residential/hotel building to possibly get it built sooner, I will keep you guys up to date as I can.

[Surrealplaces]

Thanks for the updates LeftCoaster!

[Reesonov]

At this point there are several ideas as to how to stage the development. Obviously CF would still rather build the project as one phase, it is the preferred option for a number of reasons, but it simply may not be feasible.

With regards to the +15 the two which could be built and link into the office tower would be built and the third would be added when the residential/hotel building is completed. Currently there is a plan in the works to reconfigure the residential/hotel building to possibly get it built sooner, I will keep you guys up to date as I can.

To parrot SurrealPlaces, thanks for all of the updates on this project.

I'm surprised that the developers feel that the condo phase "may not be feasible" when they haven't even really marketed them yet. I know that there are a lot of condo projects in the sales stage at the moment, but City Centre is fairly unique in the sense that it is in the heart of Eau Claire and it can offer five star hotel-level ammenities.

[LeftCoaster]

Well they may not have put them on the market but there is a lot of due dilligence being done. The problem, as you even hit on, is that these are not standard $500/sf condos, these will be very high end residences (think Shangri-La in Vancouver or 4 Seasons in Toronto). Though the mid range condo market in Calgary is healthy enough, with many 20 somethings active in the market, the very high end market in Calgary is still almost entirely dominated by SFH. As much as things have changed in the younger generation it seems the older generation which control the upper spectrum of the market, still have no desire to live an urban lifestyle.

[Surrealplaces]

Well they may not have put them on the market but there is a lot of due dilligence being done. The problem, as you even hit on, is that these are not standard $500/sf condos, these will be very high end residences (think Shangri-La in Vancouver or 4 Seasons in Toronto). Though the mid range condo market in Calgary is healthy enough, with many 20 somethings active in the market, the very high end market in Calgary is still almost entirely dominated by SFH. As much as things have changed in the younger generation it seems the older generation which control the upper spectrum of the market, still have no desire to live an urban lifestyle.

Does the Hotel portion depend on the residential? I'd love to see a hotel go up in that location.

[Bokimon]

ya know, why don't the developers phase the hotel/condo development so that way the hotel can still be built but then add more floors later to complete the condo portion.
Several projects around the continent has done its design in that sense to cope with the current markets.

But I do see the point that these condos are going to be very high class type of residences comparable to that of Princeton or the Concorde Eau Claire which is also on hold because they don't think Calgary is fully ready for the ultra high end luxury urban living yet. As a 20something myself, there is no way such calibre is within my grasp for buying power, I'd have to be at least 10 years older in order to make enough to settle into one of these places which I hope to do 10 years down the road.

Otherwise, good news for City Center, if only CF can release some more renderings!!

[Calgarian]

How many hotel rooms, and how many condos are they looking at building in ph 2?

[suburbia]

Does the Hotel portion depend on the residential? I'd love to see a hotel go up in that location.

Most of the new higher end tower hotels have a hotel serviced condo portion. To some degree, I think Le Germain works like that also, and certainly the examples mentioned from Vancouver and Toronto are like that. If that is the case, the hotel cannot as easily be separated from the condo portion. A successful condo portion will ensure and appropriate higher end hotel for Calgary, else we'll get 'another of the same'. I would think the (smaller) Le Germain touchstone for the Calgary market would be helpful. Didn't that get snapped up in two seconds? I understand this is larger, but still ...

[Reesonov]

Well they may not have put them on the market but there is a lot of due dilligence being done. The problem, as you even hit on, is that these are not standard $500/sf condos, these will be very high end residences (think Shangri-La in Vancouver or 4 Seasons in Toronto). Though the mid range condo market in Calgary is healthy enough, with many 20 somethings active in the market, the very high end market in Calgary is still almost entirely dominated by SFH. As much as things have changed in the younger generation it seems the older generation which control the upper spectrum of the market, still have no desire to live an urban lifestyle.

Fair enough. Cadillac Fairview are obviously very experienced, very sophisticated developers. Its easy for us cheerleaders to chant "build! build!" when it isn't our hundreds of millions of dollars on the line. In any event, I do hope that the condo/hotel phase is built at least at some point in the near future. This is my favourite proposal in Calgary right now.

[greg_a]

Any demolition yet?

[DizzyEdge]

lets say you have 2 identical towers, except one is 20 floors, and the other is 40 floors. Also assume the 40 floor one only has the bottom 20 floors finished, the top 20 are just bare concrete, although all outside work (glazing, etc) is done. How much more did the taller tower cost? Just wondering in the case of Bokimon's suggestion how much more it would cost to build the full tower, but finish off the interiors of the residential at a later date.

[LeftCoaster]

Does the Hotel portion depend on the residential? I'd love to see a hotel go up in that location.

Yes it does. Not only is what subrubanite said more or less true, but there are often distinct contracts and agreements in place between the developer, hotel operator and strata that make building the hotel and residences in phases difficult or impossible.

How many hotel rooms, and how many condos are they looking at building in ph 2?

It is still too preliminary for a concrete number.

lets say you have 2 identical towers, except one is 20 floors, and the other is 40 floors. Also assume the 40 floor one only has the bottom 20 floors finished, the top 20 are just bare concrete, although all outside work (glazing, etc) is done. How much more did the taller tower cost? Just wondering in the case of Bokimon's suggestion how much more it would cost to build the full tower, but finish off the interiors of the residential at a later date.

A lot of the cost would still be there as the structure and glazing (the city would never let you leave an unfinished Pyongyang-esque concrete structure in the skyline) account for a very large chunk of the cost.

There really is very little reason to build in this fashion, and due to the reasons I just mentioned in response to Surrealplaces question it is often not even an option.

Sometimes it is viable to vertically phase a project in two distinct phases (Blue Cross building in Chicago, Bentall 5 in Vancouver) but even that is a difficult prospect to make economic sense of.

[DizzyEdge]

Yes it does. Not only is what subrubanite said more or less true, but there are often distinct contracts and agreements in place between the developer, hotel operator and strata that make building the hotel and residences in phases difficult or impossible.



It is still too preliminary for a concrete number.



A lot of the cost would still be there as the structure and glazing (the city would never let you leave an unfinished Pyongyang-esque concrete structure in the skyline) account for a very large chunk of the cost.

There really is very little reason to build in this fashion, and due to the reasons I just mentioned in response to Surrealplaces question it is often not even an option.

Sometimes it is viable to vertically phase a project in two distinct phases (Blue Cross building in Chicago, Bentall 5 in Vancouver) but even that is a difficult prospect to make economic sense of.

Thanks, I wasn't sure if it was feasible. but was curious nonetheless.

[TallBob]

LeftCoaster: Vertical Phase Developements like Blue Cross in Chicago, you'll probably never see in an area like CC and Eua Claire (general neighborhood). But I could see these phased in developements (vertical) in the Beltline though.

[WhipperSnapper]

There are few places and likely none in Canada where building a major high end brand hotel makes economic sense.

The physical structure reflects two buildings stack on top of each other however, both the hotel and residential portions rely on each other to get the project off the ground. The hotel amenities are a major selling point for the condos while the sale of the condo portion or partnering with residential developers offset the cost of the hotel. The strata fees usually supplements the maintenance as well. I don't see anyone throwing down money in the hopes of a future market developing either. (although speculating on other peoples' tens of millions is rampant on these forums)

[Jimby]

I'm confused about the condos. CF is not in the Calgary condo market and probably not interested, so would they build the structure and sell all the raw units to a condo marketer or would they sell them directly as a one time venture?
Would the future condo corp. have to pay rent on behalf of the unit holders to CF who would keep owning the ground beneath the condos?

[unibrain]

The high end hotels have been the topic of discussion for quite a few years. We were supposed to get at least two of these before the recession hit. I can say at least one is still in discussion at this point.

Hotels appear to be the next big thing. Look for two new towers (not yet discussed here) in the beltline in the next little while. And look for another two towers in the downtown core (discussed here) to move ahead soon.

[TallBob]

Are you an insider?

[Full Mountain]

Are you an insider?

unibrain is the ultimate insider!

[MichaelS]

The high end hotels have been the topic of discussion for quite a few years. We were supposed to get at least two of these before the recession hit. I can say at least one is still in discussion at this point.

Hotels appear to be the next big thing. Look for two new towers (not yet discussed here) in the beltline in the next little while. And look for another two towers in the downtown core (discussed here) to move ahead soon.

Is one of the downtown towers the Hilton that is proposed for the east village? The second one the International Hotel phase 2?

[Surrealplaces]

The high end hotels have been the topic of discussion for quite a few years. We were supposed to get at least two of these before the recession hit. I can say at least one is still in discussion at this point.

Hotels appear to be the next big thing. Look for two new towers (not yet discussed here) in the beltline in the next little while. And look for another two towers in the downtown core (discussed here) to move ahead soon.

Towers, as in hotel towers, or any towers in general?

[unibrain]

Towers, as in hotel towers, or any towers in general?

New hotel buildings are being proposed.

In the immediate moment these are not the five star ones everyone is hoping for.. But they will fill a need and I suppose there is still brand recognition.

We'll get five star hotels, but that's still a little ways yet. Although I,ve been told we are close.

[stampedeyeehaa]

Did we ever figure out what they are doing with the western part of the block during the first phase?

[Full Mountain]

Did we ever figure out what they are doing with the western part of the block during the first phase?

Nothing AFAIK

[stampedeyeehaa]

Fencing up and looks like demp about to start.

[Hungry]

Hey - anyone know what the official full address is for the City Centre project?

[Canterra]

Photos by Canterra
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o183/brodie99/f9806cfb.jpg
There is one underground parking level below.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o183/brodie99/d3aa7cc3.jpg

[Bokimon]

Nice pictures Canterra, good to see you have awoken from your slumber after all these years! That last one though is upside down.

I swore those structural items remaining inside the old Maid were dancing poles..

[Wooster]

Yeah, I think those are the stripper poles.

[Calgarian]

I'm sure they are columns and beams, Stripper poles are furniture and would probably have been one of the first things ripped out.

[Innersoul1]

@Calgarian...face palm

[Calgarian]

I guess you guys were joking then... lol been at work too late the last few nights I guess.

[WIGS]

Yeah, I think those are the stripper poles.

I hope they were donated to the Calgary Historical Society :D

[Canterra]

- demo still in progress
- picture by me
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o183/brodie99/2bc4ef73.jpg

[You Need A Thneed]

^ looks like shoring has started.

[CGY]

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge in this area than I can help me out here... If construction (as opposed to simply demolition) is supposed to be starting soon, why did they fill in the hole from the parking garage at this site?

[Full Mountain]

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge in this area than I can help me out here... If construction (as opposed to simply demolition) is supposed to be starting soon, why did they fill in the hole from the parking garage at this site?

Probably so that they can get the shoring closer to the edge of the site.

[WhipperSnapper]

I'm hoping someone with more knowledge in this area than I can help me out here... If construction (as opposed to simply demolition) is supposed to be starting soon, why did they fill in the hole from the parking garage at this site?

The drill rigs need a level, stable site to work from otherwise they tip over with the best of cows. Also the caisson walls preventing the site from collapsing in on itself during excavation are most effective from street level and not one storey down.

[Chadillaccc]

hahaha love your new signature WhipperSnapper :P

[evolv]

Does anyone know when the spaghetti factory is shutting down?

[eggbert]

I walked past the construction at lunch today, shoring is definitely underway. They've finished off the SE corner of the lot and they're working there way down 3rd Ave towards the Old Spaghetti Factory. The other building in the pictures above on 2nd Ave is completely down now, just debris sitting in the lot now.

[Wooster]

Does anyone know when the spaghetti factory is shutting down?

It's not - until the second phase.

[Chadillaccc]

Pretty sure the info in this title could be updated to UC & Approved. :D I think they've even completed the first floor of parking!