[wong21fr]

^Eeyore, Warren's personal attack was a singular event. The biggest issue was that he was a super homer about Denver with no grounding in reality.

So, in that sense, you are exactly like him. If you could tone your enthusiasm down by a factor of two or three it would be far easier to appreciate your view of Pueblo and some of your more insightful thoughts.

[acw007]

Eeyore already has toned it down. Now you're just picking on him.

[wong21fr]

^Really? Maybe he has toned it down on this thread..... :hmmm:.

I'm used to him on the Pueblo Thread and the claims are as wild as ever. But, in all fairness, that's the proper place for them.

[Eeyore]

Back to development talk since this is not the all about Eeyore thread.

One thing I am jealous of is how Fort Collins is getting so many new condos, not necessarily the cost of them but the fact they are getting so many. My guess is that is because of the demographics of the people who live there but that begs the question, what is the typical demographic of the people who chose to live in condos? Another question I have for 007 is does Fort Collins have a lot of apartments in downtown? Because maybe that is the difference as Pueblo has a lot of apartments but few condos while Fort Collins has more condos but not as many apartments.

[wong21fr]

^Educated professionals in service oriented, tech, and design industries who are looking for a lively, urban, community with a lot to do in the immediate area. A high disposable income is also neccesary. I'd say that Fort Collins' younger, higher educated population is neccesary, as is a different dispersion of industry when compared to Pueblo.

Having a continuous "pull" in the downtown area helps as well. If Pueblo could generate such a "pull" with further development on the Riverwalk it could provide the catalyst, but I don't think the expanded convention center is the trick there as it's activity is not continuous. It'll take a lot more commercial and retail activity to provide that "pull".

Eeyore, any thread you're in is an about Eeyore thread. Tis' quite the distinction.

[Eeyore]

Interesting....

Perhaps that is another area CSU Pueblo could help as well.

I think a larger convention center will help only because it will be the catalyst that brings in more private development including restaurants and hotels that will be the constant draw for residents into downtown.

What about the difference between apartments and condos? Is that a income issue because its cheaper to rent then it is to buy? If that is the case then Pueblo's bigger problem could be income level more so then draw. If that is the case then Pueblo needs some major companies to move into downtown and I am not talking about more call centers. Those have been great but do nothing to help raise the income level that allow people to buy condos.

[acw007]

Wong is absolutely right. But I think Fort Collins also does a good job of attracting young families downtown. Three bedroom condos are almost as common as two bedroom condos are here. The downtown Fort Collins buyer is also outdoorsy. They want direct access to the river, biking and hiking trails, and the kayak course.
There are close to no apartments in downtown Fort Collins and until recently no one was proposing them but the economy went south and lending became next to impossible. There’s a lot less risk developing rental projects and you don’t need to wait to have everything to be pre-sold like you would with a condo development. Pre-selling $300,00+ condos in this economy is damn hard, especially considering the amount of projects that were completed right before the economy tanked.
The Flats at the Oval was the first for rent project I’ve seen developed downtown. Penny Flats building 4 is going to be for rent do to the economy. I don’t think people only choose to rent because its cheaper than buying because in reality you can buy a two bedroom condo any where in town that you please with a cheaper mortgage payment than you’ll pay rent downtown for an apartment half the size. A 500 square foot studio at the flats at the oval is going to cost you $900. A one bedroom apartment at the penny flats is going to cost you $1,071 a month with out utilities. You pay for the lifestyle you want.

[Eeyore]

On average renting is cheaper then buying as you don't need a down payment and, especially in Pueblo, the average rent is less then a mortgage. I suspect the biggest difference is people in Fort Collins make a lot more money then people do in Pueblo and why we have a lot of apartments but not so many condos while in Fort Collins you have no apartments and more condos.

I am off to the home opener at CSU Pueblo and will post pictures along with my daily pictures of the state fair tonight in the Pueblo thread.

[wong21fr]

On average renting is cheaper then buying as you don't need a down payment and, especially in Pueblo, the average rent is less then a mortgage. I suspect the biggest difference is people in Fort Collins make a lot more money then people do in Pueblo and why we have a lot of apartments but not so many condos while in Fort Collins you have no apartments and more condos.

I really don't think that is an accurate description, I'm willing to bet that Fort Collins probably has a far greater amount of apartments than Pueblo, hell, CSU alone will create a huge demand for rental housing. Usually condos and lofts are the first units in any new area and the apartments follow on later based on market economics.

But, aren't the apartments in DT Pueblo mostly subsidized units provided by charities and the local housing authority to seniors and those who need some-form of assisted living? If so, it's hard to draw any kind of conclusions as those units aren't market driven.

[acw007]

Ofcourse we have more apartments than Pueblo but we were talking downtown. Probably 75% of the apartments here are west of the university. There are plenty of rental units downtown adjacent to the university but they're mostly in the form of older homes that have been converted.

[glowrock]

Eeyore already has toned it down. Now you're just picking on him.

Oh give me a break! Have you looked at the Pueblo thread lately? He's just as starry-eyed as ever over there!

Aaron (Glowrock)

[wong21fr]

Ofcourse we have more apartments than Pueblo but we were talking downtown. Probably 75% of the apartments here are west of the university. There are plenty of rental units downtown adjacent to the university but they're mostly in the form of older homes that have been converted.

What about the subsidized units? Does Fort Collins have a lot of senior residences and apartments for those who need assisted living downtown? It seems that is the are of the apartment market that Pueblo has while Fort Collins is/will be quickly gaining the luxury apartment market that tends to follow for-sale residences.

Personally, I don't think that the urban market, rental or for-sale, in Pueblo holds a candle next to the one in Fort Collins. The demographics are just way too different.

[Eeyore]

I was only referring to downtown as I know overall Fort Collins has more apartments then Pueblo, simply because of CSU Fort Collins.

I do know that Pueblo has a lot of senior housing in downtown and subsidized apartments but I was not referring to them although they do add to the population of downtown so I am glad we have them. However, this time what I was specially referring to was the historic buildings, as most of them have apartments on the top floors (usually the second but some are 3 or 4 stories tall). So, I would agree that the condo market in Pueblo does not hold a candle to Fort Collins but I have a feeling that we have more apartments in downtown then they do. I think the reason is renting is much cheaper then buying. For example at one time I lived in a loft on the 3rd floor of the historic train depot and at the time it was one of the more expensive apartments in Pueblo but the rent was only 850 for a two bedroom.

Here are a few pictures of what I am referring to:

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/IMG_0545.jpg

The top floors are all apartments. Just for a point of reference these are across the street from the historic train depot in downtown Pueblo.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/IMG_0546.jpg

The top floor is lofts and I lived in the corner loft but you can't see if from this view.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/IMG_0547.jpg

Again the top floor is apartments.

[Front_Range_Guy]

:previous:

I'm not going to comment on the broader conversation here, but that would be a pretty cool place to live. I adore that part of Pueblo. :cool:

[acw007]

What about the subsidized units? Does Fort Collins have a lot of senior residences and apartments for those who need assisted living downtown? It seems that is the are of the apartment market that Pueblo has while Fort Collins is/will be quickly gaining the luxury apartment market that tends to follow for-sale residences.

Personally, I don't think that the urban market, rental or for-sale, in Pueblo holds a candle next to the one in Fort Collins. The demographics are just way too different.

Affordable and senior housing are pretty evenly dispersed threw out the city. The small amount we have downtown is in the form of the Northern Hotel and DMA Plaza. The Northern Hotel was built in 1905 with 115 rooms but much of the building had been gutted by several fires. The building went threw a $12,000,000 renovation around the year 2000 turning it into a 45 unit senior housing project with ground floor retail. The DMA Plaza is an 11 story, 1985 mess of affordable senior housing. Beyond that we are severely lacking affordable housing downtown. But I really cant think of a single entity downtown that caters to low income families. The vast majority of those places are located on north College a few miles from downtown. I don’t know if that’s a blessing or a curse.

[glowrock]

The one problem that Fort Collins faces is certainly an extreme lack of anything affordable, especially close to the center of town. As several people have already alluded to, none of the new construction downtown comes close to being affordable for the majority of people, and the affordable complexes are all clustered several miles to the north of the center of town. Probably not a good thing, in my mind.

That being said, it's absolutely amazing how much revitalization has occurred in Fort Collins over the past few years. Simply amazing! :tup:

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Eeyore]

When it comes to living in downtown I think Pueblo and Fort Collins represent the exact opposite of the spectrum. Pueblo has plenty of affordable housing and apartments but lack condos while Fort Collins lacks the affordable housing and apartments but has the expensive condos. To be honest I think both extremes are not good and it would be good for Pueblo to get some more condos and for Fort Collins to get more affordable housing and apartments in downtown.

I could be wrong but I am thinking its easier to get more condos to be built as it just takes more development in downtown both by the private and public sector but I am not sure how to make it cost effective for developers to build affordable apartments when they can build expensive condos or town houses and sale them for a larger profit margin.

[Front_Range_Guy]

It seems like the issue that always comes up is property values. At least here. Land downtown is so expensive (for some unknown reason) that it's almost impossible to put up an affordable housing project and break even, much less make a profit.

When I talked to the city planner last year he told me that plenty of developers have tried, but none of them can make the numbers work. At least in the core.

[Eeyore]

Good point FRG. So I suspect as the Riverwalk area in downtown Pueblo continues to grow over the next 10 years we will have less affordable housing as well as rents go up and the price of the condos go up as well. I just hope we get more condos because we have some but with this recession the new growth that started as gone back down to a trickle.

[Front_Range_Guy]

Still not a whole lot to report here.

Work on the Mining Exchange hotel and adjacent buildings continues. The process of converting the ground floor of The Independence Building into a restaurant is underway, with the kitchen area under construction. This space formerly housed the Tre Luna Events Center.

It's looking increasingly likely that Memorial Hospital is going to cut the umbilical cord and become an independent, non-profit hospital. Hospital leaders submitted their proposal last week, and feel that with the city's budget problems, this is the only way the hospital will survive. I believe voters will get the final say.

It's likely the Colorado Springs Pioneers Museum will also become an independent non-profit for the same reason.

The strong mayor issue will be on the November ballot.

El Paso County is moving forward with it's plans to consolidate several offices at the former Intel complex, now called "Corporate Ridge", on Garden of the Gods road. The plan also includes shuffling several other county offices, including moving the commissioners to Centennial Hall, and moving the Sheriffs office into the building that the commissioners currently work out of.

The Independent recently reported several new businesses are in the process of opening downtown. Frankly, I haven't bothered to walk around downtown in ages. I'll have to check it out soon.

[Eeyore]

Keep us posted on the new hotel as that will be a great addition to southern Colorado. Especially the resturants as they sound like they will be great.

[Front_Range_Guy]

I will as I agree. :cheers:

[Eeyore]

I decided to post this in the front range thread because of our conversation on the importance of having people live in downtown. Also, we talked about how we should keep it affordable so there can be diversity in downtown. I like how the Pueblo Urban Renewal Authority thinks so as well and I am glad to see them working on a plan to get more people to live downtown. This plan, along with the state grant, would really help transform the Riverwalk area by 2020.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/riverwalk-3.jpg

This is from the Pueblo Chieftain:

At an Urban Renewal meeting set for Tuesday, the agency is expected to start the process for accepting proposals to develop the site. It is across from the police department's vacated former building — also set aside for future development — and close to the Historic Arkansas Riverwalk of Pueblo.

Jessi Ones, communication director for the agency, said the board wants to bring in a mixed use of housing and retail to the former health department and police station sites. The idea is to get more people living in the Downtown area that will in turn help support local businesses.

The city of Pueblo gave the old building and land to Urban Renewal and is expected to do the same with the old police station and municipal court complex, vacated earlier this summer with the completion of the new Municipal Justice Center a few blocks away.

Once the authority takes over the old police department property, it will look for a developer, Ones said. Several developers have expressed interest, including some who have discussed keeping the old police building. Others want the police building removed to make way for new development.

[acw007]

CSU sees record enrollment on Fort Collins campus

By Trevor Hughes
TrevorHughes@Coloradoan.com

If you think it feels a little busier in Fort Collins these days, you'd be right: a record number of students are attending CSU this year.

Colorado State University officials on Thursday said there are 26,348 students on campus today, a 3.7 percent increase over last year.

They come from every county in Colorado, and every state in the Union. They have snapped up parking spaces, filled classrooms and squeezed the rental market tight.

“We’re proud that Colorado State University continues to attract a growing number of outstanding students - from every county in Colorado and every state in the country - who are attracted to both the character of the campus and CSU’s reputation for academic excellence,” said CSU President Tony Frank in a statement.

By enrolling additional students, CSU earns extra money that can be used to pay faculty salaries, build new buildings and provide financial aid.

A large number of late-committing students - about 300 of them - prompted CSU officials to add additional classes and sections to accommodate them. Unlike many smaller universities, CSU permits students to delay acceptance until a few weeks before classes begin.

The incoming freshman class of 4,472 students, which is 4.3 percent larger than last year’s class, includes 869 low-income students and a record 753 racially and ethnically diverse students. The average GPA of 3.56 and average ACT composite of 24.5 match CSU’s strongest academic profile. Over 1,000 incoming freshmen will arrive with at least a 3.9 high school GPA, university officials said.

CSU's residence halls have a capacity of 5,353 students, and every bed is filled, officials said.

Most of the residence hall beds are reserved for freshmen required to live on campus.

CSU planned its class schedules on how many students attended last year; and when administrators realized they were facing an additional 300 students, they scrambled to add classes to accommodate them all, Frank said last month during freshman move-in.

"The worst thing you could do is spend all this time and energy recruiting the best and the brightest, and then not have classes for them," Frank said.

Vice Provost Alan Lamborn said the additional students prompted CSU to add 11 new sections in liberal arts, and five in science and math. He said CSU is using qualified adjunct instructors to teach most of the classes.

[Eeyore]

LOL that just came across my google alrets. Its great that both schools (CSU FC and CSU P) are up.

[Eeyore]

My cousin sent me this link about CDOTS plans for a intersection in Loveland. I am not sure but I think its the same idea on a smaller scale on what they want to do in Pueblo on highway 50 and Pueblo Blvd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Y3shYX5lA&feature=email

This is highway 34 and I-25 in Loveland

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APIzveIQN80&feature=channel

[acw007]

You mean they aren’t going to solve a traffic problem with another roundabout? That goes against everything Loveland stands for. That intersection is pretty terrible though. These continuous flow intersections are becoming increasingly popular. Maybe I’ll drive it one of these days if I’m really bored out of my mind.
The 25 34 interchange is a bitch. The improvements are long over due. I’m honestly surprised by how little they cost though. The Harmony Road & College Avenue intersection is wrapping up construction here and those improvements cost $6.5 million. $8.5 million to improve a interchange is a bargain. Since we’re on the subject I’m pretty impressed with the design elements they’re integrating into the College Ave, Harmony Road improvements. I hope the city continues to use these elements threw out the South College corridor or at least in the South College retail areas.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/Chip2.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/Chip1.jpg

[acw007]

A few days ago I was sent a couple renderings of the improvements that are scheduled for construction next summer in the downtown river district. The river district is the area bound by Jefferson street on the west, Lincoln Avenue to the south, Lemay to the east and Vine Drive to the North. Historically the area has been more industrial in nature but that’s rapidly changing. The River Districts is home to three of Fort Collins many breweries, restaurants, offices, lofts, the city rec center, and it will soon be home to a year round community marketplace. The vast majority of buildable land downtown exist in the river district but the area lacks simple infrastructure like sidewalks curbs and gutters. The area also lacks the charm of downtown. The city has been working for years on a plan to improving the river district and all that work will finally pay off next year when the first round of improvements take place. The improvements will fortify the river district and help attract new development. Features like brick streets and an interpretive millrace running downtown Willow will set the area apart for your average downtown neighborhood.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/RiverDistrict5.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/RiverDistrict4.jpg

[Eeyore]

All of them look nice and "typical Fort Collins". I wish Pueblo had the kind of money you guys do for projects.

As far as the cost of highway 34 and I-25 I was, also, shocked as to how little it cost. I know to fix I-25 and highway 50 in Pueblo was close to 60 million dollars. But granted that also included making highway 50 six lanes and building other major roads, like Dillon drive, with its own bridge over railroad tracks. They are now working on the next phase of highway 50 and that is making it 6 lanes all the way to the rail road tracks. Then the next phase has it 6 lanes to Pueblo BLVD, when CDOT can get the funds.

[acw007]

The Harmony & College Intersection, North College infrastructure improvements, River District improvements, the new Discovery Museum, the Lincoln Center expansion and a few other projects are all the result of a ¼ cent tax hike from 2005.

[acw007]

Oooo… larger and higher resolution renderings of the MAX stations. The difference in the color of brick on the stations reflects different neighborhoods. The glass panels will also be different depending on the location. The panel’s imagery will reflect neighborhood context – sustainable, historic, natural, and high-tech.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/MAXStation4.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/MAXStation5.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/MAXStation7.jpg

[Eeyore]

The 1/4 cent sales tax sounds like its the same thing we have with are art and library district tax and the extra money we used for the convention center and hopefully will use for the remodel of Memorial Hall. As well as the 1/2 cent tax to bring in primary jobs.

I like the Max stations. I hope Pueblo does something similar with out downtown trolley.

[Eeyore]

I know CSU Fort Collins is division 1 and CSU Pueblo is division 2 but with how bad CU is suppose to be this year yet still beat CSU FC by a wide margin I wonder how CSU Pueblo would do against CSU FC as we are 2 and 0 and dominated our last game with a score of 55 to 13.

I know this is years off, more then 10, but my personal goal for CSU Pueblo is to get a football team good enough so we can play CSU FC as for me that would be a fun game to watch.

EDIT: I was thinking and once CSU Pueblo gets to 10,000 students and if the football program continues to improve it would be fun to see CSU Pueblo play CSU Fort Collins even if we were CSU Fort Collins whipping boy. Perhaps it could be some kind of exhibition game that alternated between playing in Fort Collins and Pueblo. I know I would attend the games every year as it would be fun.

[acw007]

Construction Update

Fort Collins Brewery’s new location is now finished and open for business but the adjoining restaurant has yet to open.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/f2.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/f1.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/f3.jpg

The Fort Collins Discovery Museum officially broke ground on September 11th. Site prep is complete and excavation work is now under way. The view facing downtown from the site is great. I cant wait to check it out from the museums rooftop viewing platform.

Looking south towards downtown:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/m2.jpg

Looking north down to the river:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/m1.jpg

The façade of RMI2’s new building is coming along nicely. I really like the orange in the renderings but this orange just isn’t doing it for me:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/r1.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/r2.jpg

[TakeFive]

I drop into Pueblo all the time. Eeyore, you ever listen to Homer.

[Eeyore]

Great pictures 007.

Only Homer I know is Homer Simpson.

[Front_Range_Guy]

You should re-post the RMI2 render to freshen our memories, 007.

[acw007]

No problem :)
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/RMI2-1.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/RMI2-2.jpg

[Front_Range_Guy]

Hopefully the renders are accurate, and the ugly shades of the Blue the building currently features will be going away.

I see what you mean about the Orange. Once they paint the building White (if they paint the building White) the Orange might not appear so dull.

[Eeyore]

007,

I am confused to where it is located in Fort Collins as it does not appear to be urban from the pictures.

[acw007]

The building is a lot more white/gray in person. It probably just looks blue because of the blue stuff around the windows. The site is right off College on Vine. It doesn’t look terribly urban now but this is just the first of six buildings in the development.

[Eeyore]

What are the other 5 buildings?

[acw007]

The next building will bee Wirsol Solar’s American headquarters just west of RMI2. It will be three stories tall and about 25,000 square feet. I should have a rendering of it very soon. To the east there will be a three story 30,000 square foot building and a 27,000 square foot three story building. Across the street there will be two 8,000 square foot one story buildings. All will be R&D and office like RMI2.

[Eeyore]

007,

That is awesome but I can't picture how it will all look like when its completed. It will be fun to see the construction.

That is, also, exactly what I would like to see get built on the Riverwalk in Pueblo. Hopefully after we get the state grant for the expansion of the convention center, I am told we should know by January, and the economy recovers Pueblo can attract a couple of corporate headquarters to move there as it is a perfect location.

Fixing up Memorial Hall so we can have more and larger Broadway shows is, also, going to be a huge selling point as executives seem to like to locate corporate headquarters in cities that have a decent art and theater culture. We will know in November if we will remodel Memorial Hall as it is on the ballot.

[Front_Range_Guy]

I took these pictures today at the Crags Campground just west of Pikes Peak in Teller County.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic1.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic2.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic3.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic4.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic6.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic7.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic14.jpg

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/CragsPic16.jpg

[Eeyore]

Great pictures FRG! I am so over summer and ready for fall and the first snow. I hope Pueblo gets 2 or 3 (or more) major snow storms this winter.

[Front_Range_Guy]

I'm over the hot weather and fire danger. There is a new fire burning tonight in Teller County, probably not far from where I took these. I hope the firefighters are able to get it out quickly.

[The Dirt]

That is very pretty. It reminds me that I should take a trip up to Mt. Evans to check out the discolored leaves.

[Front_Range_Guy]

It was pretty up there. I wish I would have had more time to hang out and take it all in, but we got up there pretty late in the afternoon.

They've named the Teller County fire "The Gravel Pit Fire." The fact that they gave it a name seems like a less than encouraging sign.

[acw007]

I was browsing Oz Architectures website (http://www.ozarch.com/main/project/Fort_Collins_Discovery_Museum/do/Project_Detail/pid/616/pcid/123) this morning where I came across some renderings of the Fort Collins Discovery Museum I’ve never seen before. Apparently they are the concept renders they submitted to win the contract to design the museum. The renderings show a two story layout rather than the one story current design. I was initially in favor of a two story layout but I can understand why they would want to keep it all on one floor considering the museum’s size. This isn’t the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. Here is one of the many renderings they showcase:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/DiscoveryMuseum8.jpg

I don’t dislike the design but I’m not terribly fond of it. It stands out from the rest of the architecture in the civic center but not in a good way. It just looks out of context to me. For the record I’m not exactly wowed by the current design now under construction, but I think it stands out in a better way. I know its no architectural masterpiece but it does fit Fort Collins while also pushing the boundary of what Fort Collins looks like. This seems to be something Oz has been trying to do to Fort Collins for a long time. Just look at their design for the failed hotel and convention center. Oz also designed a failed high-rise for Mountain Avenue around 2000. To my knowledge the only building they’ve designed for downtown Fort Collins that actually came to fruition in the city’s civic center office building. I’m very sure they will designing a new city hall in the near future though.

And one other thing, a few of the facts about the museum on Oz’s website are wrong. It list the budget at $12 million but the actually budget is about $25 million for the new building.

[Eeyore]

007,

Interesting. I actually like the two story design. If this recession had not happened Pueblo, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs would be much different cities today as many projects got canceled. That makes me sad.

As far as the art venues. Pueblo decided to go with the multi story art center as the Sangre De Cristo art Center complex is 3 stories and the Buell Children's Museum, same complex but newer building, is 2 stories. On top of that the plans for the future expansion that will include a larger theater calls for it to be multi story as well. Now our El Pueblo Museum is only one story but that is more a archeological site that serves as a museum for the history of Pueblo and Colorado as well, that is the building that I say is "Fort Collins" like. Perhaps the reason Pueblo needs a larger venues is because we serve a larger geographical area as people down here are less likely to drive to Denver then people from northern Colorado.

[Front_Range_Guy]

I like the chosen design better. In fact, the 2 story version you posted reminds me of a 1960's public high school.

[Eeyore]

FRG,

Do you have any pictures of the Pikes Peak Performing Arts Center? It's actually a nice building.

[TakeFive]

:banana: ... I catch the Rockies games from a website called "Radio Time" where I listen to Homer 1350 KDZA, Pueblo's sports talk.

Happy to bring you up to speed on Pueblo's finer points. :tup:

[Front_Range_Guy]

FRG,

Do you have any pictures of the Pikes Peak Performing Arts Center? It's actually a nice building.

The inside (http://www.pikespeakcenter.com/) is nice enough. The exterior is fugly.

[acw007]

I agree with FRG on the Discovery Museum and the Pikes Peak Center.
007,

Interesting. I actually like the two story design. If this recession had not happened Pueblo, Fort Collins and Colorado Springs would be much different cities today as many projects got canceled. That makes me sad.

As far as the art venues. Pueblo decided to go with the multi story art center as the Sangre De Cristo art Center complex is 3 stories and the Buell Children's Museum, same complex but newer building, is 2 stories. On top of that the plans for the future expansion that will include a larger theater calls for it to be multi story as well. Now our El Pueblo Museum is only one story but that is more a archeological site that serves as a museum for the history of Pueblo and Colorado as well, that is the building that I say is "Fort Collins" like. Perhaps the reason Pueblo needs a larger venues is because we serve a larger geographical area as people down here are less likely to drive to Denver then people from northern Colorado.

This like so many of your ideas was pulled out of your ass. :rolleyes:

[Eeyore]

:banana: ... I catch the Rockies games from a website called "Radio Time" where I listen to Homer 1350 KDZA, Pueblo's sports talk.

Happy to bring you up to speed on Pueblo's finer points. :tup:

That explains it as I don't like baseball. Then for the Broncos I am either at the game or watching them on tv and if I have the radio on, I tend to have it with me at the game, I have it on 850 KOA.

[Eeyore]

I agree with FRG on the Discovery Museum and the Pikes Peak Center.


This like so many of your ideas was pulled out of your ass. :rolleyes:

It is a working theory as to why Pueblo, a city smaller then Fort Collins, has larger art venues and theaters that attract Broadway shows. In fact Pueblo has entered it's 51st season and when I looked in the Fort Collins web page for the performing arts I did not see any Broadway shows coming. Then on top of that our plans are larger with $10 million dollars just to upgrade Memorial Hall with things like hydraulic lifts for the stage so we can attract even more Broadway shows and events. Then they want to add on to the Sangre De Cristo Art Center making it even larger then it is today. I think that is out of necessity not because we are better as I know many people in southern Colorado who will travel to Pueblo to see a play or art show but will not travel to Denver. You don't have that problem in northern Colorado as Denver is right there. So both performing art center's perform a much different role in their community and region.

EDIT:

I looked at the mission statements and I think that shows the difference.

The Lincoln Center:

The mission of the Lincoln Center is to be a leader in cultural experience and make it an essential value to the community.

about the Lincoln Center:

The Lincoln Center is one of Colorado’s largest and most diverse presenters of professional theatre, dance, music, visual arts and children’s programs. It features two performing art spaces (a 1,180-seat performance hall and a 220-seat theatre), three galleries, and an outdoor sculpture/terrace/performance garden. It also has two conference/special events rooms available for rentals.



The Sangre De Cristo Art Center:

The mission of the Sangre de Cristo Arts & Conference Center is to make the arts an active part of everyone’s lives by leading in managing, promoting and providing quality facilities, arts programs and services which educate, challenge and meet the needs of the people of Pueblo and southern Colorado.

about the art center:


The cultural hub of Southern Colorado, the Sangre de Cristo Arts Center features a three building complex including six galleries offering the best in historic and contemporary art by artists of local, regional and national renown. In addition the Arts Center offers the Buell Children’s Museum, recognized as the second-best for art by Child magazine, a 500-seat theater offering a variety of performing arts programs, both local and national, and two gift shops. Over 100 fine arts, dance and leisure classes are offered every quarter providing something unique to everyone from children to adults of all skill levels.

Then there is Memorial Hall ran by the art center that has 1,656 seats and attracts Broadway shows every year. This is the one they want to spend $10 million dollars on to renovate.

The El Pueblo Museum which is the history of Pueblo and Colorado is seperate.

Sorry I have no life so I did a little bit to much research on this topic

:P

[acw007]

BLAH, that’s what I have to say about that. I had this long ass response written out before you edited your post and now I have zero desire to post it. Its hard for me to respond to everything you say with out being mean and I get tired of the same lame arguments day after day. Rather than post my original rebuttal I’ll just say a few things and walk away.

There are no shows coming any time soon because the Lincoln Center is being renovated. There is no 2010-2011 season but we do get our fair share of touring shows as well as musicians and comedians. The Lincoln Center host over 300 performances every year. I’ve seen Fiddler on the Roof, The Wizard of Oz, and Spamalot at the Lincoln Center. Hell I even saw Kathy Griffin there. If you would like to see what a normal season is like at the Lincoln Center then check out their wiki page. This list does not include groups like the Fort Collins Symphony Orchestra, Fort Collins Opera, numerous local theater and dance groups that perform there regularly, and touring performers that book the venue on there own.

Memorial Hall does have a larger seating capacity but its not like you’re selling out shows week after week. Take a look at the upcoming event list for Memorial Hall. Five out of eight of the months they have posted have zero events scheduled. I’m going to assume that they didn’t post the other four months because they have ZERO events scheduled.

I’m not going to try to argue that Fort Collins has larger venues even though I easily could if I could find any concrete information on the size of The Sangre de Cristo arts center. I do however know that excluding the main theater the Lincoln Center has 55,000 square feet of gallery and event space. I also know that 17,000 square feet is being added during the renovation.

[Eeyore]

So this is a odd year for the art center in Fort Collins. Fair enough. Unfortunately right now your are right and Memorial Hall is underutilized and that is the key reason they want to upgrade it with A/C and hydraulic lifts for the main stage. After that it should have well over 100 shows and events a year. Question? Does the main stage in Fort Collins have hydraulic lifts? I am told that is one of the key reasons Pueblo does not get even larger Broadway shows. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years once both centers are upgraded to see the kind of shows they can attract.

As far as the size I am not sure all I know is in Pueblo the main art center has 6 galleries plus the children's museum plus the El Pueblo Museum. In Fort Collins it has 3 galleries. That is from their web page.

[acw007]

Yes we have hydraulic lifts.

[Eeyore]

That is something that Pueblo has lacked. I guess that comes from using a building that was built before they knew what hydraulic lifts were. I am glad to see Pueblo finally getting them as I think not having them holds us back big time. My dream is for Pueblo to get all the Broadway shows that go to Denver. Instead of having a 2 week run just have a day or two run here after they perform in Denver.

[Front_Range_Guy]

So, what's worse? Pictures and discussions about marginally interesting projects in suburban settings, or no conversation at all?

[Eeyore]

So, what's worse? Pictures and discussions about marginally interesting projects in suburban settings, or no conversation at all?

I vote for pictures and discussions of marginal projects over no discussion.

I will be honest. I was at the October Fest at the train depot in downtown Pueblo tonight and am a little drunk. I know Pueblo is not the most urban city in the United States. If I wanted that I would live in NYC, Chicago or San Francisco. Hell not even Denver is that urban. So my idea of urban is much less then most people and I, also, know that I put Pueblo in a much higher pedestal then most people. However, I have found that is one of the only ways to get discussions going in here and keep them going once they start. If I say what everyone expects (yawn) then I get no responce. However, if I say what I think but don't sensor it with reality then I get responce's from a lot of people. There you know why I do what I do in here. I don't lie (Pueblo is the place I choose to be and I can live anywhere I want to) I just don't use my sensor as I am like what the hell. I am in a place to talk about cities so I will say exactly how I feel about Pueblo and won't care what anyone thinks. The up side to that is it starts and keeps discussions going.

[acw007]

I will take my moderately interesting projects and photos over the nothing currently under construction in Colorado Springs and Pueblo. And I will assume you are talking to Eeyore when you say suburban settings because I only post about downtown Fort Collins. :)

[Front_Range_Guy]

Actually, I'm talking about myself.

Fort Collins & Pueblo have both had vastly more going on downtown in the last year than Colorado Springs has.

[acw007]

Well in that case I'll take what ever you got. The whole front range thread isn't very front rangy with out you. And I'm sorry if I come off like a dick all the time.

[Front_Range_Guy]

Well in that case I'll take what ever you got. The whole front range thread isn't very front rangy with out you. And I'm sorry if I come off like a dick all the time.

:haha: You don't. You express frustration from time to time, but it's always justified. I prefer to take the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" route in those situations.

It's frustrating that Fort Collins is the only city represented in this thread that is making any notable forward progress, but in a way, it's also right.

At a time when it really mattered, Fort Collins chose progress. Colorado Springs did not. Damn if Pueblo isn't trying, and Pueblo deserves credit for it's river walk, convention center, public library, new police headquarters, new health department, etc... but Fort Collins is the stand out in this bunch.

I'm over this whole recession thing. Can we get back to our regularly scheduled program now?

P.S. - I still respect your enthusiasm, and your loyalty for your city Eeyore... even though there are some days that your posts are so far out in left field that I want to strangle you. :P

[Eeyore]

FRG,

Don't forgot about the new Olympic headquarters in downtown Colorado Springs. Sure it had drama but in the end it stayed in the Springs and that is good for Colorado Springs and Colorado. I know you are more of a urbanist then I am but the Springs does have great buildings being built around the city by the airport and north of town. Most of which I would love to have in Pueblo. However, is the new hotel north of town still on hold. I drive by there on my way to Denver and I never see anyone working on it.

I am so ready for this recession to be over as well. I still think 2011 will be better especially if Pueblo can get the state grant then we will have more construction in downtown then Fort Collins and Colorado Springs.

If you want to strangle me you have to take a number.

:P

007,

Thats why we love ya! Don't change.

:D

[Front_Range_Guy]

I'm not sure what the status of the new hotel is as far as construction goes. Work should have resumed by now, but I haven't really been following this project very closely. I haven't been following any projects very closely, actually.

I did take this picture of it about a month ago from the patio of the newly opened Colorado Mountain Brewery. I don't make a habit of patronizing North end businesses, but a friend was an investor in the brewery, and I promised to give it a shot.

In the picture, it looks like the doors were still boarded up if that's any indication of whether the project is moving forward.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/Chris80906/Hotel.jpg

[Eeyore]

FRG,

I actually like the tech park north of town. I just wish they would of developed it more dense as there is a office building here and there, kind of random in my opinion. If/when Pueblo gets the Pueblo Springs Ranch I hope they learn from this development and keep that tech park more dense. I am told by the city they will but time will tell.

I see that too about the hotel and that is why I was wondering what was going on.

[Front_Range_Guy]

Meh. Every office building up north represents an office building that could be downtown.

[Eeyore]

Perhaps. However what if they did not want to be in a downtown so the only option was either there or the Denver Tech Center or worse some other tech center in another state? I would much rather them be in southern Colorado giving us the population and tax revenue. That is why I support the Pueblo Springs Ranch because I look at Denver and Colorado Springs and I feel Pueblo really misses out by not having a major tech park and its the last piece of the puzzle Pueblo really needs so we can continue to be seen as one of the major 3 cities in the state like I think Pueblo wants to be.

[Front_Range_Guy]

Or those businesses could locate downtown. It's true, having the businesses is important... but they don't *have* to be in sprawling suburban office parks.

[Eeyore]

I see your point. I just think that my first choice for a company to move would be in downtown the second would be anywhere in the city. Hell if HP wanted to move and the only place they would build a corporate office in Pueblo was by the airport I would personally go out there with my shovel and get the land ready. Now granted I am being extreme and my little shovel and I could not even clear the weeds. My point is I would rather have the company in Pueblo then some other tech park or downtown in another city. That is how I feel about the tech park in northern Colorado Springs as it is good for southern Colorado.

[Front_Range_Guy]

I agree it's better to have the businesses then not, I just don't see any good reason why they *have* to locate where they have chosen to.

[Eeyore]

One day when I have nothing to do I will go up to the Springs and take pictures of the buildings outside of downtown that I like. From the new business park by the airport to the tech park north of town then head by the tri lakes area then finally head west to Manitou Springs. I willl even get pictures of the new bridges built off of Powers and Garden of the Gods by UCCS. Not sure when that will be but my goal is to do that by Thanksgiving.

[Eeyore]

I decided to post this here since we have been taking about the renovation of cultural centers.

Memorial Hall:

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/IMG_1996.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/memorialhall.jpg


Today I got my letter on the renovation, they are asking for money and I will donate money as I always do for causes I support in Pueblo. That being said they have some cool information on the project that I wanted to post here.

The renovation will cost $10 million dollars but the value is the new facility will be comparable to the cost of a new $40+ million dollar center. However, IMO, its much more as its still a historic building and you can't build a building like that today for anything less then $100 + million dollars. I am not sure on the exact cost but I just don't see any buildings being built like that anymore so its kind of like the American Express commercial. Renovations to Memorial Hall $10 million dollars. Renovating a historic cultural center that can't be replaced: Priceless.

They will actually add on to the building making it larger. I see the picture but I am not sure how to post the picture on line. Hopefully the Chieftain will run it, if it does I will post it here.

They will fix the seating giving more room and better angle of site to the stage.

Here is a before and after:

1648 existing seats.....................................1650 bigger seats
No air conditioning.......................................Air conditioning
Stage 33' by 66'...........................................Stage 40' by 94'
Rigging: manual hemp no cat walks..................Rigging: motorized and catwalks
No backstage space.....................................Full backstage support

[acw007]

Engines and Energy lab to grow
By Steve Porter

Share |

September 24, 2010 --
FORT COLLINS - The old Fort Collins power plant on North College Avenue, which found a rebirth in 1992 when Colorado State University professor Bryan Willson moved in to create the Engines and Energy Conversion Laboratory, is about to see a new chapter in its 75-year-old history.

Discussions are being finalized with the city to expand the EECL by 50,000 square feet, with a new addition planned for the facility's front-yard area. Willson, a mechanical engineering professor and EECL director, said the additional space is needed for classrooms, laboratories, offices and future growth.

"We started the lab in 1992 with just one professor - me - and now we have over a dozen and tons of companies working out of the facility," he said. "So, we've gotten to the point where we just physically don't have the space we need for people."

The EECL has partnerships with such companies as Caterpillar, Cummins, Woodward, Spirae and VanDyne Superturbo. It has also spun off its own startup ventures, including Envirofit International and Solix Biofuels.

Willson said the decision whether to expand at the existing site or to relocate the EECL onto CSU-owned land or another location in the area was not an easy one. But in the end, he said it made the most sense to stay put.

"The logical answer was to stay at the current location and expand the site," he said. "There were so many factors that favor staying in the current location, including the Rocky Mountain Innovation Institute a few blocks to the north and the new Discovery Center under construction across the street from the EECL."

Willson said the 1935-built power plant building may be getting on in years but is still in good physical condition. "The building we have is outstanding for what we do, large and open and of very heavy construction that really works well with the equipment we have," he said. "But it doesn't work for housing people."

Constraints being addressed
There are several constraints that are making staying put problematic, Willson notes. The five-acre site is hemmed in by the Poudre River on the north and railroad tracks on the south.

The multi-level addition would sit in front of and slightly to the south of the existing structure and would match it as nearly as possible in its brick exterior. Darin Atteberry, Fort Collins city manager, said negotiations between the city and the university on the expansion call for the power plant's historic attributes to be maintained as much as possible, including moving an historic gargoyle-festooned fountain to another location on the grounds.

Atteberry said the expansion also had to be planned so as not to violate city policy forbidding new construction in the 200-foot river buffer. "We're really looking at a building outside the 200-foot river buffer, which was a concern from day one," he said.

Atteberry said another issue still being finalized is how to accommodate more parking for the facility. That might be accomplished on city-owned land just to the south near the city's Northside Aztlan Recreation Center, he said.

Atteberry said new terms for the lease between the city and the university regarding the use of the power plant will also be drawn up during the finalization of the expansion plans. The current lease - CSU pays the city $1 per year for the use of the building - is in force until 2024.

Close relationship
Atteberry said the city wants to maintain a close relationship with CSU on the EECL. "I think it's been a fantastic partnership between the engines lab and the city for many years, and we're proud that there's research with a global impact going on in our facility," he said.

The EECL, part of the CSU College of Engineering's mechanical engineering department, was ranked No. 6 by Popular Science magazine on its August list of the best national university laboratories.

Willson said while many details remain yet to be resolved, he's feeling more confident that the project will go forward at the current site.

"We do have a plan that appears will work," he said. "I don't want to get too specific because there still needs to be the formal permitting by the city."

Those specifics include an estimated cost for the expansion and a timeline for its construction.

Willson said the EECL has come a long way since 1992. "When we first moved in, if you plugged in two 1,000-watt heaters at the same time it blew every circuit in the building," he said. "Now, it's one of the most advanced smart-grid labs anywhere."

Willson said he's excited about having the EECL remain close to RMI2 and the new combined Discovery Science Center and Fort Collins Museum, which broke ground on Sept. 11 and is set to open next year across College Avenue.

"Between us and RMI2 and the Discovery Center, you're really bringing a concentration of technical talent to the River District," he said. "That's pretty exciting, and I think the three of us will anchor sort of a renaissance area and innovation-oriented area."


Here’s a picture of the old power plant:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/p4-1.jpg

And here’s a couple of close ups of the fountain:
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/p3-1.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg152/acwilson007/p2-1.jpg

I’ve always loved this fountain. It was actually designed for Denver’s City Park but upon completion it was rejected and tossed our way.

[bunt_q]

Perhaps. However what if they did not want to be in a downtown so the only option was either there or the Denver Tech Center or worse some other tech center in another state? I would much rather them be in southern Colorado giving us the population and tax revenue. That is why I support the Pueblo Springs Ranch because I look at Denver and Colorado Springs and I feel Pueblo really misses out by not having a major tech park and its the last piece of the puzzle Pueblo really needs so we can continue to be seen as one of the major 3 cities in the state like I think Pueblo wants to be.

Sigh... nobody gets the type of recognition you are looking for by settling for "this is as good as we can get," and then being proud of it.

[Eeyore]

007,

That is great news for Fort Collins.

Bunt,

I did not say "this is as good as we can get" in fact its just the opposite as I feel that Pueblo and Colorado Springs are a much better city with the major corporations moving in and while I would love for them to be in downtown, well some of them I would not want Vesta's to be in downtown, they do not do Pueblo or Colorado Springs any good if they move into the tech center of Denver or Orlando or Chicago. That is my point.

Lavender Film Festival

On a side note tonight I will be in Colorado Springs for the Lavender Film Festival and will take pictures. I will post them when I get home tonight.

[acw007]

:previous: I’ve been ignoring that one because I know exactly what he’s going to say and I have zero desire to hear his rebuttal. I’ve also been ignoring the “major three cities” thought he pulled out of his ass. Considering the number of cities in this state that are larger or about the same size as Pueblo but economically mightier, it’s a pretty sad joke.

[wong21fr]

^Cue Eeyore's response and rational about Pueblo's importance in the state.

[Eeyore]

Again being a major city has nothing to do with size. In Pueblo's case it has to do with luck of location as we are the hub city for a 20 county region in 2 states. If Pueblo was by Longmont then it would be just another ex suburb of Denver or if we were located by Fort Collins we would be just one of a number of larger cities in a region so it is not known as a hub city for a larger geographic region. Again I refer to the map that is put out by the government that shows the Pueblo region and Denver region to prove my point.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/SCEDD_Counties.gif

This is the Pueblo trade area.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/Coloradonode.png

141- Denver region
140- Pueblo region

Edit: You guys know me so well

:haha:

[Front_Range_Guy]

Random googling led me to the project page for Milton E. Proby Parkway. If you watch the animation on the homepage (http://www.buildproby.com/)... the design for the interchange with S. Academy just seems bizarre.

[Eeyore]

Random googling led me to the project page for Milton E. Proby Parkway. If you watch the animation on the homepage (http://www.buildproby.com/)... the design for the interchange with S. Academy just seems bizarre.

Dam. I am so jealous as its the first fly over in southern Colroado but I have to admit it needs it as its the main road to the Colorado Springs International Airport from the south. In fact I take it all the time when I fly out of the Springs.

:yes:

[Eeyore]

I was at the Lavender Film Festival in Colorado Springs tonight then had dinner at MacKenzie’s Chop House in downtown Colorado Springs after. Just some information on MacKenzie’s Chop House . It is a restaurant that has been around for decades. In fact my dad tells my how my family use to love to eat there in the 70's and 80's. So when I eat there I can imagine my great aunts and uncles having a great diner there just like I am.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00532.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00534.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00535.jpg

This is Colorado College where the film festival is at.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00552.jpg

This is the USOC building.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00544.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00545.jpg

I can't go to downtown Colorado Springs and not take a picture of my favorite sky scraper, the Wells Fargo Building.

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00548.jpg

http://i394.photobucket.com/albums/pp25/josseppie/DSC00551.jpg

Just some random shots of downtown on my way to the restaurant and when I left. I was a little drunk so that is why they are not as good as they could of been.

[Front_Range_Guy]

You mean Colorado Springs Municipal Airport? It would be an international airport if WestPac hadn't gotten greedy.

Thanks for the pics. Ive only been to McKenzie's once... when I bought tickets to a luncheon meant for professionals who work in the development biz a couple of years back. I was sticking my nose in where it didn't belong. lol. Got to see some cool renders of the proposed Pikes Peak Place, though.

The USOC general assembly has been happening in Colorado Springs this week. Bringing 400 people into town, according to KOAA (http://www.koaa.com). NBC Sports Chairman Dick Ebersol was the keynote speaker at the event, which was held at the Antlers Hilton Hotel downtown. The Gazette (http://www.gazette.com) reported this week that according to a USOC report, the organization's economic impact on the region is $215 million dollars, and that it employs 2,158 people here.

[Eeyore]

I heard that Alligent wanted to start flying non stop from Colorado Springs to Mexico then when I was on my flight over Pueblo with the USAF they called it the Colorado Springs International Airport. So because of those two reasons I started calling it a international airport as well.

You can go to any meeting. I know I have been to few that I just wanted to see what was going on and that's ok.

Thanks about the pics and that is great about the USOC.

[Front_Range_Guy]

Yeah. I got the feeling that everyone knew everyone else, and my presence wasn't exactly welcome... especially when they found out I am a member of the media... of course I paid for the tickets, so there was nothing they could do.

[Eeyore]

^

Thats ok. I bet it was fun.

[Front_Range_Guy]

It was interesting, that's for sure.

[Eeyore]

I will say I really like the theater at Colorado College but I expected it to be larger as the one at CSU Pueblo is bigger then this one. Granted this is nicer and newer but I really thought it would seat over 1,000 people from looking at it from the outside.

[Brainpathology]

I will say I really like the theater at Colorado College but I expected it to be larger as the one at CSU Pueblo is bigger then this one. Granted this is nicer and newer but I really thought it would seat over 1,000 people from looking at it from the outside.

CC's student population is around 2k. The fact that a tiny private school can even have these sorts of amentias, which looks great (and nice pictures of it btw) says a lot about the school.

[Eeyore]

CC's student population is around 2k. The fact that a tiny private school can even have these sorts of amentias, which looks great (and nice pictures of it btw) says a lot about the school.

Thanks and you are right. I just thought from looking at the building the theater would be larger.

[Front_Range_Guy]

I was a little surprised by how small it was too. It's much smaller than the old theater at Armstrong Hall across the street. It's still a really cool venue, though, and good or bad... it was adequate for the show I saw there.

[Eeyore]

Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the place and you know if CSU Pueblo built a theater anything like it that I would cream my self. I just though it would be larger from looking at the outside of the building but I can see where it does not need to be that big.

[Front_Range_Guy]

Cream yourself, eh?
:haha:

[Eeyore]

LOL ya

:haha:

[wong21fr]

CC's student population is around 2k. The fact that a tiny private school can even have these sorts of amentias, which looks great (and nice pictures of it btw) says a lot about the school.

Having the largest endowment in the state helps.

The two schools that consistently build the finest facilities in CO seem to be CC and DU (with DU taking the cake). But, when you've got an awesome alumni network backing you up along with high tuition.....

Though I must say that CSU has really stepped up their efforts in the last few years.