[mersar]

New town proposed near Canmore

Last Updated: Friday, November 10, 2006 | 12:06 PM MT
CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/credit.html)


Developers are proposing the creation of a new town on the Bow River between Cochrane and Canmore.
If approved, the new community would be built about 30 kilometres east of Canmore next to the old Seebe town site.
The proposed town would cover about 350 hectares and include more than 3,000 residences.

John Third, spokesman for developer Moondance Land — which is partnering with the Stoney Nakoda First Nation on the project — said the new community will be more than just a resort town.
"We are also developing a community that will have employment generators within it," Third told CBC News. "There's a portion of the site that is industrial, as well as commercial lands."
Third adds that the town would have retail and service infrastructure to support a community of 5,000.
Hugh Pepper, assistant reeve of the municipal district of Bighorn, said Thursday the plan will receive first reading in December and any development has to adhere to strict regulations.

"They are going to have to describe the extent of their project, the effects and how they plan to mediate those impacts," he said.
Pepper said the plan must pass three readings before being approved, and that there will be ample opportunity for public discussion.
Construction could begin as early as 2008.

-------

Personally I dislike this, and am very surprised that its been proposed. I am already wondering how on earth they plan to service the town, as they won't be allowed to draw directly from the Bow, and building a 30km water and sewage pipeline system would be quite expensive. Not to mention draw the ire of Calgary, who would rather no one upstream return anything to the river system. I can understand the draw to the area since Canmore has practically put a stop to further growth, and it is close to the mountains, but I don't think I'd want to live there even if there was a good commercial/industrial base in the town.

What's everyone else's take on this?

[Riise]

A few times over the last year I've found myself thinking of how cool it would be to start a new mountain town from scratch. However, I don't think the developer would share the same planning practices as I, so unless this developer is thinking of building a town that would fit in in the Alps I'll have to oppose this, most likely, rubbish.

[Doug]

If this is on reservation land, prospective buyers would only be able to elase the land, which would be a huge obstacle.

[mersar]

Hmm, just did some searching and found an article on Alberta Venture about the idea as well... see here (http://www.albertaventure.com/abventure_4516.html?ID=4516&doc_id=6360&content=false). Points out a few interesting tidbits:
The MD of Bighorn's total population is just 1300
The original rumors for the plan involved highend residential around a golf course
infrastructure requirements are huge:
new bridge into the area
water/sewage
Could become a source of workers for the new Casino which is just a few km awayFrom what I read its off the reserve, as the band paid $11 million for the land from Transalta.

[Herr_Verlage]

If they bought the land from transalta.....does it become reserve land?

[Jay in Cowtown]

Another Redwood Meadows sort of debacle... it won't happen.

Why not just take a D-10 Cat and bulldoze Exshaw, and start from scratch, or better yet... build the new town at Dead Man's Flat, at least it's close to the ammenities of Canmore!

[Rusty van Reddick]

Has Canmore put a stop to further growth?? All I see there is growth. I know Cochrane has proposed a population cap (25,000?) but I'm not aware of such a thing for Canmore...

[mersar]

Cochrane hasn't proposed that (and we're likely to hit 25,000 within about 5 years if all the new developments go at their expected pace), Okotoks actually has one in place for 25,000.

[rapid_business]

So no option of Dead Man's Flats becoming a town of sorts?

(advises his family not to buy in to condo project)

[CCF]

What about that ghost town near Canmore? The name escapes me.

It's blocked off, and not accessible. The only reason I passed through it is because were going rafting and the bus has permission to pass through. Why not just build there?

[mersar]

Theres a number in the Canmore area (Bankhead, Georgetown, Anthracite are ones I know of that are to the west, although for the most part nothing is left of any of them), and of course Seebe which is where this proposal is (a more recent ghosttown, as the last residents were forced out in the early 2000's).

The main reason for this site being proposed is due to the fact it was owned entirely by one company who sold it, plus its right on the very edge of the mountains, so not as many concerns over wildlife exist there, compared to say Canmore.

[canucklehead2]

Any renderings, maps, plans available online yet?

[Doug]

Proposed town excites investors
Project may face environmental opposition

Robert Remington, Calgary Herald
Published: Sunday, November 12, 2006

Without a survey stake yet in the ground, interested buyers are already clamouring for building lots in a proposed new town at the gateway to the mountains west of Calgary.

"I've probably had a dozen calls from people asking if they could give me a down payment, but I've had to tell them we don't even have approval," says developer John Third.

The proposed town, on lands adjacent to the abandoned TransAlta company hamlet of Seebe, is set on cliffs above the Bow River with views of Mount Yamnuska and the Bow Valley.

The town, seen by some as a rare chance to create a model community from the ground up, is expected to get first reading by the Municipal District of Bighorn next month.

"We have a unique opportunity to do it right," says Dene Cooper, a bird-watching enthusiast, author and reeve of the M.D.

Among the benefits that could come from the new development is a much-needed regional waste-treatment facility serving the proposed new town, Exshaw, Lac Des Arcs, Dead Man's Flats, Morley and Bow Valley Provincial Park. The park currently trucks its waste to a facility in Kananaskis.

"We're unburdened by the decisions of previous councils," says Paul Ryan, a councillor with little tolerance for advocacy groups.

"Make sure your spam filters are working. The three-toed salamanders and the two-faced environmentalists are going to be e-mailing you," he told colleagues at a council meeting last week.

Environmentalists would prefer to see the site, known as the Horseshoe Lands, remain untouched, connecting the area to Bow Valley Provincial Park with public access.

But Cooper is convinced environmental connectivity can be preserved. Steep banks provide little human access to the river. Wildlife movement from the Bow Valley to Kananaskis occurs mostly through nearby Bow Valley Provincial Park, which is home to a sizeable elk herd.

The Horseshoe land is not good wildlife habitat, argues Third, manager of marketing and public relations for Moondance Land Company, developers of the site with the Stoney Nakoda First Nation.

The land is blocked by the Kananaskis River to the west, the steep banks of the Bow on the north, and the railway and highway to the south.

The area has little aspen, willow or other similar food sources for deer and elk, which in turn attract wolves and cougars, he said.

A provincial moratorium on water licences prevents the developers from drawing water from the Bow River.

That problem, too, appears to be overcome with a successful well the M.D. recently drilled at Exshaw that taps into an underground river with extremely high water flows.

"Think of it as an ancient Bow River 700 feet underground," Cooper said.

TransAlta sold the 218 hectares adjacent to Seebe to Moondance and the Stoney Nakoda for $11 million in 2003.

They are currently in negotiations to purchase the abandoned hamlet itself, which formerly housed company workers for the nearby dam at the junction of the Kananaskis and Bow rivers.

The proposed town would accommodate a minimum of 5,000 people but could go as high as 6,500, depending on density to be determined by the M.D.

There is provision for a commercial and light industrial section that could provide warehouse and storage space for suppliers serving the hotel industry in the Bow Valley and Kananaskis.

"I see this as being a win-win situation for a lot of people," Third said.

The picturesque setting has been featured in movies such as Brokeback Mountain, where the main characters, two cowboy lovers, jump naked from a cliff into the Bow River.

A German film company is currently shooting a movie on the north side of the river across from the proposed development.

The scenery of the area is also a favourite backdrop for car commercials, as Cooper discovered recently while bird-watching in Bow Valley Provincial Park.

He was approached by security for an automaker, who thought he was engaged in industrial espionage, capturing photos of an as-yet-unveiled new model cars.

"They covered the cars up right away and came over to us. They meant business," Cooper said.

"Once they knew who we were and what we were doing, they let us watch. But we had to put our cameras away."

rremington@theherald.canwest.com

© The Calgary Herald 2006

[CorporateWhore]

"We're unburdened by the decisions of previous councils," says Paul Ryan, a councillor with little tolerance for advocacy groups.

"Make sure your spam filters are working. The three-toed salamanders and the two-faced environmentalists are going to be e-mailing you," he told colleagues at a council meeting last week.


what a quality human-being. :koko:

[canucklehead2]

I am curious to know what the developers vision for the town will look like.Will it be compact European alpine-esque community, or will it just be a standard issue suburban cluster of sprawl set in the mountains? The Bow Valley corridor has the potential to become a true model of sustainability and compact development, but it remains to be seen of this will actually be the case. I mean between Lake Louise, Banff, Canmore and Seebe, the region could be home to 30-35 000 people, or a small city!

[Doug]

what a quality human-being. :koko:

He only speaks the truth, a rarity for a person in public service.

[mersar]

That is what will be interesting to see. I see the project quite likely going ahead without much opposition, so hopefully the MD Council pushes for the developer to come up with a responsible design, as it would be an amazing place to try it as it won't be encumbered by anything for the most part. The comments from their reeve do make the possibilty of this sound quite promising at least.

I may, depending on when Bighorn holds their council meetings, take a trip out to for the meeting, and maybe they will have some more details available that may not have been reported by then.

[Policy Wonk]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug
"We're unburdened by the decisions of previous councils," says Paul Ryan, a councillor with little tolerance for advocacy groups.

"Make sure your spam filters are working. The three-toed salamanders and the two-faced environmentalists are going to be e-mailing you," he told colleagues at a council meeting last week.



what a quality human-being.

It is easy to be so dismissive when you have never been on the receiving end.

Look at the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Delta pipeline project, activists have reduced the process to little more than a freak show. Future projects of that type are in jeopardy when they are needed most because of all the poor precidents for special interest participation it has set.

Look at the Toronto Waterfront, activist squatters on the Toronto Islands have made doing much of anything on the waterfront impossible. From killing the Toronto Island bridge to protesting absolutely any public activity that might bring people into a public park. My personal favorite is the Docks fiasco where these idiots had the Docks liqour license pulled over noise complaints. The funny thing about the Island squatters is be they protesting the Toronto Island Airport, the Docks or the public stepping foot in a public park - they are usually making a whole lot more noise then the subject of their protest.

There is a point where if you want to get something done that you have to tell the environmentalists and misc. activists to goto hell.

If we had modern activism in the past, every advance in human civilization since the 16th century would have been hindered or destroyed.

[ckkelley]

If this is on reservation land, prospective buyers would only be able to elase the land, which would be a huge obstacle.

I was wondering that myself. If true, it would definately be a dealbreaker. For me anyway.

[Dalreg]

I see row after row of three car garages, two storey homes, with stamp size back yards. Perfect development near the Rockies.

Oh yeah can't forget the big box developments! Have to have them.

[Jay in Cowtown]

.

Just wanted to let ya know what a great Avatar you have... Love "Weeds"... can hardly wait for season 3!!!

Speaking of great Showtime exclusives... I highly recommend "Dexter", another great show!!!

[Bad Grizzly]

I like this proposal. The growth in that area is inevitable, so why not be proactive and manage it. It's also farther away from the montains, so less impact on the wildlife than developing in Canmore.

[CanadianCentaur]

Looks like the first new town since Tumbler Ridge! It seems that every time there's a boom of some kind in a province or a particularly high price for a commodity like coal was for TR and Grande Cache, there's a new town either proposed or actually going up.

I know in the last oil boom prior to this one, a new town was planned to go up in the early to mid-1980s near McClellan Lake about 90 km north of Fort McMurray, partly to ease the growth pressure on Fort Mac itself. Of course, that boom got cut short in 1981 and so it never materialized. Now we have this but for a different reason of course, but this is still tied partly to the present oil boom in a way.

[YYCguys]

I am interested to hear/see what the proposal looks like. If it's a town a la European town in the mountains, that would be great, but if it's another development a la Airdrie/Strathmore then I say forget it! One cute town that could serve as an inspiration would be Harrison Hot Springs, BC or something like that.

[Boris2k7]

A place in the country
Seebe plan welcome if it meets environmental impact standards
Calgary Herald
Tuesday, November 14, 2006

The development of a new community on the old Seebe townsite 80 kilometres west of Calgary is certain to provoke the same kind of opposition the province encountered when Kananaskis Village was built, more than 20 years ago.

Certainly, those objections based upon sound environmental concerns will need to be adequately addressed.

However, provided that can be done, the several benefits of establishing 5,000 people in the Municipal District of Bighorn make it an attractive prospect.

At this point, the developers -- a partnership of Moondance Land Co. and the Stoney Nakoda First Nation -- have done no more than submit a proposal to the municipal district. Their plan would see up to 3,000 homes built on the 218-hectare location by the Bow River, with (possibly) some commercial buildings.

Already, however, the consortium is receiving enquiries, even offers of deposit. No wonder: It is an area of outstanding natural beauty, with views over the river towards Mount Yamnuska, (also known as Mount John Laurie, the first mountain one encounters, as one travels west through the Rockies.)

Just as easy to understand is the municipal district's enthusiasm for it. Presently, it has a population of 1,300, in five hamlets. The tax base from the completed town would alter the district's finances beyond recognition.

Putting that many people in the area would require new infrastructure, including a sewage system, and a waste treatment plant. From the district's point of view, that's a further plus; the waste treatment plant at least could serve the nearby hamlets of Exshaw, Lac des Arcs, Dead Man's Flats, Morley and the Bow Valley Provincial Park.

So far, so good. The developers (and the municipal district) will however have to proceed in a regulatory environment that discourages residential development in wilderness areas.

Since 2000, the provincial government has prohibited all development in nearby Kananaskis Country, in response to growing public alarm about the impacts of tourism and population. Meanwhile, environmental groups have already shown their willingness to litigate, in an attempt to slow or altogether prevent new development in what are perceived as wilderness areas.

The developers and the district will therefore have to prove their contention that the townsite is poor wildlife habitat and that building on it will not interfere with wildlife migration.

At least nobody will be able to accuse them of depleting the Bow River; tests on an underground river in the area show that it is able to fully support the village.

To place the Seebe development in perspective, it should be acknowledged that Calgary has larger new communities. Other than environmental impact then, the only question is really whether a community should be in that area.

Happily, the developers have history on their side with which to counter elitist objections. Given past and present industrial development in the area, and the presence of the hamlet of Seebe there from 1911 to 2004, it would be hard for opponents to argue that the Horseshoe Lands are pristine.

For 5,000 fortunate people, it would be a superb place to live, and an economic driver for the municipal district.

We are inclined to wish the developers good luck.

[tuffyy]

What a brilliant idea!!!Lets just take one of the most beautiful places on earth and build towns all around it!!!The Animals?Who cares!!!The mountains,hey lets blow one up and make a new valley!!!My god what a dumb idea!I hope no one in their right mind lets this happen!

[Jay in Cowtown]

What a brilliant idea!!!Lets just take one of the most beautiful places on earth and build towns all around it!!!The Animals?Who cares!!!The mountains,hey lets blow one up and make a new valley!!!My god what a dumb idea!I hope no one in their right mind lets this happen!

LOL!!! I'd like to see Casinos, Resorts and Ski hills all along the side of the Trans-Canada through the mountains... there's still plenty of space for your granola hikes with the animals.

[freeweed]

LOL!!! I'd like to see Casinos, Resorts and Ski hills all along the side of the Trans-Canada through the mountains... there's still plenty of space for your granola hikes with the animals.

You'd positively LOVE the US. Ever want to feel like it's impossible to get away from the crushing mass of humanity? Go travel in a US "park". Check out their "wild" areas.

Personally, I'm kind of torn on this one. We can't stop development forever, so as someone already mentioned, at least we can plan it this time. However, the "less impact on wildlife" is a bit of a red herring - the animals don't exactly stop at the mountains. Seebe and Exshaw are prime habitat and migration areas for a lot of wildlife.

As much as pundits will claim this won't simply be a tourist community, there's no question it will. Canmore was well on its way to ghost town status before the Olympics, and wouldn't be 1/10th the size without the huge increase in eco-tourism and the like over the past 20 years.

I guess it comes down to this: do we want a lot of summer homes surrounding the mountains, where people drive up once and spend a long time there - or do we stick with what we have, a lot of temporary visits with huge volumes of road traffic?

Personally, the nature lover in me wishes they'd have kept the Banff park boundaries right to the egde of the Rockies, as they were until the 1930s or so. That limestone mining is a horrible scar on the landscape when you drive west. However, I guess we can't keep the entire country pristine forever. :(

[Western Spaghetti]

What a brilliant idea!!!Lets just take one of the most beautiful places on earth and build towns all around it!!!The Animals?Who cares!!!The mountains,hey lets blow one up and make a new valley!!!My god what a dumb idea!I hope no one in their right mind lets this happen!

They've already protected some pretty large areas in the mountains with the national parks. I don't see the area by Exshaw as that much of a worry building there. Better there than Canmore.

[mersar]

Well the first reading of the bylaw establishing an ASP for the development passed yesterday, and a public hearing was set for early March. Seems the biggest concern is still water though.

[bcbringcash]

I am soon moving to Canmore as I beleive it to be the most beautiful place in the world. Planning it for so long now, have been wishing their was a place between Calgary and Canmore a little closer to the mountains than Cochrane.

[DavidKuitunen]

At this point, the developers -- a partnership of Moondance Land Co. and the Stoney Nakoda First Nation -- have done no more than submit a proposal to the municipal district. Their plan would see up to 3,000 homes built on the 218-hectare location by the Bow River, with (possibly) some commercial buildings.

So it's basically a 3,000 home bedroom community in a 2.18km² Area over 90km from the downtown core. Oh and they might throw in some commercial for the novelty of it, but probably not. Sounds like a model for sustainability to me. :koko:

[DavidKuitunen]

350 Hectares = 3.5km²

5000residents/3.5km² = 1429 residents/km²

Calgary has an average of 1,435.5 residents/km²

I doubt the planning will differ from anything else you see in Calgary burbs. It'll just be a community full of wealthy elite granolas who don't work, work at home yuppies, and people willing to put 60k annually on their Cadillac escalades commuting to Calgary. I'm sure the houses won't be scaled down what so ever. Several empty rooms with lights on, Plasma TV's , and new fandagled appliances sucking back the KW-hours.

I don't see this being a model for sustainability at all, but whatever different strokes for different folks :tup:

[240glt]

^ That's exactly what we'll get, the same sprawling crap that ruined Invermere. Anyone who's hoping for a compact Alps-type development can keep on dreaming. Albertans are simply not programmed to think that way.

[b31den]

Who needs things like local grocery stores, hardware stores, banks, and restaurants when you only have to drive 25km to Canmore or 60km to Calgary?

What are people going to have to do there anyways? They probably wont even be able to develop a trail network for hiking, biking, etc as it is hemmed in by the reserve.

I do believe that there could be 4-5 new towns built between Calgary and Canmore along the highway, but they need to be real towns.

I would build them at the following locations:

- HWY 22 Junction: This town would also be a good location for transport companies. Could become the largest town west of calgary on HWY 1 in AB. 20-30 thousand people. Lots of commercial and some industry.

- Several km North or south on Jumpingpound Rd. Very scenic area. 3000 people, small amount of commercial

- Several km south on HWY 68. Why this highway is considered a primary, who knows. 3000 people, small ammount of commercial

- Expand ghost lake and build a road to make the connection HWY 1 short. 3000 people. Design it to be a bit of a tourist town.

- Expand Lac des Arcs by use of condos. No commercial other than perhaps a convenience store.

- Exshaw: pretty cool town already, just build a connector across the river to Lac des Arcs. Pretty crazy there is no bridge there.

- Expand and rename Dead Man's Flats. 3000 people. However, do not build anything into wind valley (as has been proprosed). Limit development to maximum 500m south of the highway. Most residential would have to be condos. Build a large outlet big-box mall to lower the cost of living in the area. The mall would be built right next to the highway. Build a connector (similar to 1X) that crosses the river, connecting 1A and 1.

A good model development is "Spring Creek" or the condos by Hooligan's in Canmore.

Also, build a road over sentinel pass to shorten the distance between the kanaskis and bow valleys. There is already a service road (closed to traffic) which could be upgraded. Pave Smith Dorien Trail.

[bcbringcash]

Canmore's location is ideal, small town feel with all the ammenities at hand. As far as I can tell it is growing. The three sisters village looks like a huge project.

(Exshaw: pretty cool town already,)
Other than homes what else is in Exshaw?

[b31den]

Canmore's location is ideal, small town feel with all the ammenities at hand. As far as I can tell it is growing. The three sisters village looks like a huge project.

(Exshaw: pretty cool town already,)
Other than homes what else is in Exshaw?

Ok, I live in Canmore, so I will give you my take...

-Doesnt feel like small town. Feels more like a small nimby/yuppie city.
-No public transportation (has been on the table for years, supposed to be integrated with banff's)
-Most landscape features are over-done, gaudy. Enough rundle rock already! Check the reconstructed Hospital Hill for a prime example.
-Very poor layout. Where I live is 45min walk to downtown, Three sisters village would be probably 1:15-2:00, depending where.
-Insane local politics. Pick up one of the free local newspapers next time you are here for some entertainment.
-Excess of Lululemon, Toyota Prius, Ford Explorers, Smart Cars, organic food, dog parks, golf courses.
-Tthe town's "wildlife corridor" principle: golf courses have less impact than hiking trails.

-Redeeming points: Nice location, nice hiking/biking/ski trails, good nightlife for its size.

Also, the company that was building Three Sisters went bankrupt. The golf course is stuck half built. Dont worry, Three Sister's other golf course is fully built and operational. If you feel like mixing things up head over to the public golf course, or perhaps Silver Tip, or Banff Springs, or Kananaskis Village.

I probably think Exshaw is cool because it is not most of those things listed above. Its more of an average Alberta town.

[Oliver Klozov]

...
Other than homes what else is in Exshaw?

WIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:haha:

[Policy Wonk]

Another interesting aspect of this story is the Nakoda First Nation appears to be re-orienting itself away from oil and gas development and into real estate. A shake-up in Morley last fall put a white real estate developer in charge and pushed out some oil and gas oriented people.

[bcbringcash]

WIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:haha:


I am actually asking not stating.

[shreddog]

Also, build a road over sentinel pass to shorten the distance between the kanaskis and bow valleys. There is already a service road (closed to traffic) which could be upgraded. Pave Smith Dorien Trail.
Where is Sentinel pass?? The only pass I know of with this name is down the 940 by Plateau mountain (way off from what you're talking about).

Are you talking about Skogan as that is the only place I can think of that meets what you're talking about? If so that would be about the same elevation as Highwood pass without the long lead in - don't think it would be doable - plus it would add more cars to a nice running trail.

Cheers.

[Oliver Klozov]

...
Are you talking about Skogan as that is the only place I can think of that meets what you're talking about? If so that would be about the same elevation as Highwood pass without the long lead in - don't think it would be doable - plus it would add more cars to a nice running trail.


Yeah, I figured he meant Skogan, too. There is no way there will ever be a road over Skogan. It is doable but it is also proclaimed a critical wildlife corridor. The enviro-weenies would be out in full force to stop that one.