[alexjon]

I got clarification tonight over the little blurb on the Portland Eagle's website-- it seems their building was sold. They're moving and have to be out by the end of february.

Now, this is interesting becaue it fleshes well with my theory about the Pearl consuming the burnside triangle area...

Can't say I'm surprised.

[pdxtraveler]

Do you think this is where the press got mixed up on the Club Portland/Silverado building? Actually, thinking more, it probably goes more into your theory, Alexjon, that both are potentially going almost wiping out the gay district (Burside Triangle). Not that it was that big in the first place.

[MarkDaMan]

G-E has purchased an option to purchase the Silverado block.

Truth be told, I would like to spend my dollars at updated and less trashy places without paying Hobo's prices, $7.50 for a bottle of Bud...ugh...so I hope these 70's style bars will be replaced in old town with more current and classier joints.

[pdxtraveler]

I agree Hobo's is a bit pricey, but I love the atmosphere. I host 8-10 events there a year because they can accomodate the size of the group and the atmosphere is great. They also remember what I drink, I am easy to win over obviously!

[Capitol Hill]

Stragely, we're starting to have the devolution of gay bar areas in Seattle, too. Thumper's is closed, Manray has a development planned, I'm hearing rumblings of something for where CC's is, so the only bars that I think here in Seattle that are safe for the next 3 years are R.Place, Neighbors, Madison Pub and the Eagle, and Purr. But you never know, the Pike Pine corridor is starting to get a lot of activity.

The BMW dealership is going away, and I hear Phil Smart Mercedes will be leaving soon as well, lots more development. And the newcomers most likely won't be wanting to live above a nightclub or gay watering hole.

[mSeattle]

^The Cuff?

[MarkDaMan]

In Portland, it's not uncommon to see two guys getting freaky on a 'straight club' dancefloor. I find that central Portland's club scene isn't defined by it's gay section and separate straight clubs. I've been to CC's on many nights and it seems like I run into one breeder after another. I've also been in Doug Fir on a non 'gay' night and was overwhelmed with the touchy grabby men. I wonder if this is just the end to separate gay and straight club scenes in progessive cities?

[mSeattle]

The owner of Thumpers was quoted in the PI saying that gays feel safe going almost anywhere in the city and not just to gay bars/clubs anymore, and straights of course had been showing up to gay bars/clubs more and more (Neighbors/R-Place).

Anybody remember the Timberline when it was in the big loghouse (now a Cornish College building), and that little place (can't remember the name) that used to be where "The War Room" is now at Harvard and Pike?

Unfortunately I never went to any gay clubs in Portland, but I can tell you about the little monthly dances in Walla Walla and Touche. :D

Does anyone know how Vancouver BC handled it, building density and keeping night spots? I'd think they would have already experienced what we're starting to down in PDX/SEA.

[pdxtraveler]

Mark,

I think that is a major reason. Portland is so progressive a 'ghetto' isn't needed. But it is sad in a way where do you go when you want to be around your on kind for a while. It would be nice to have a identifiable such as Davies in Vancouver, Castro in SFO, or Cedar Springs/Oaklawn in Dallas.

It is a really good and bad thing at the same time.

[Black Box]

In Portland, it's not uncommon to see two guys getting freaky on a 'straight club' dancefloor. I find that central Portland's club scene isn't defined by it's gay section and separate straight clubs. I've been to CC's on many nights and it seems like I run into one breeder after another. I've also been in Doug Fir on a non 'gay' night and was overwhelmed with the touchy grabby men. I wonder if this is just the end to separate gay and straight club scenes in progessive cities?
I agree with your assessment. I feel comfortable going just about anywhere, even Pioneer Square. I mostly hang out in Columbia City, Capitol Hill and Ballard. The GLBT population in Seattle is booming and the boom has to go somewhere to play. Several new bars opened in the past year (Purr and Sugar). Also, the Elite on Broadway is going the way of the condo. Also, can anyone from Portland confirm for me if this has to do with Vaseline Alley? Is it a part of the area in question?

[alexjon]

Stark and Burnside meet at a point, with that triangular block headed by the bathhouse and the silverado on one end... on the opposite side, across 13th, is the eagle on the opposite side of the block that has the crystal ballroom

The general consensus is that the eagle is going to have to update itself and not in that slap-dash-still-trash way scandal's did. I really think I wanna start pitching ideas to the collective club owners to sorta get them into thinking about getting with the times.

[asher519]

We rarely hit the gay bars when we go out, opting instead for divey haunts like Yamhill Pub, Kelly's, Angelo's and the like. It's true that cities as progressive as Portland and Seattle can easily support a vibrant gay population sans ghetto, but I agree with pdxtraveler that sometimes it's nice to visit the gayborhood (just as it's sometime nice to visit the gay bars). When I lived in Chicago, it was always a good time trekking up to Boystown to hang out with my peeps in what felt like our own little world.

[zilfondel]

I run into one breeder after another.

ROFLMAO! That has got to be the funniest pieces of terminology I have ever heard of. A breeder! lol :haha:

[MarkDaMan]

^ha, never heard that one before? One of my favs, and clean enough to be posted here.

It would be nice to have a identifiable such as Davies in Vancouver, Castro in SFO, or Cedar Springs/Oaklawn in Dallas.

my first trip to the Castro was when my uncle took me and my parents when I was ten, about 15 years ago. I always teased my dad that it was that trip that turned me gay...but anyway...I've been visiting the castro every few years since that first time and I've got to say, it has really gone down hill since the first time I walked that strip. Even in SF the gay community is integrating and most of the best 'gay' clubs aren't even on the castro anymore, or all that gay. One gay club had both men and women go-go dancers and there was less than a handful of women in the whole club, so I know they weren't for them.

What suprises me most in Portland is when I go to a place I always thought was some biker dive, like my recent venture to the Lotus, and there were more gay people than straights that night...very strange.

[zilfondel]

I thought all the bikers had been run out by hipsters?

I think hipsters far outnumber GLBT's in Portland, from my experience.

[mcbaby]

people seem less hung up on whether you are gay or straight nowadays. just more concerned if you are happy and able to find love.

[seaskyfan]

I always liked that seedy strip off Burnside. Too bad it will likely get redeveloped.

I haven't been to a gay bar in Seattle for years. I hardly ever get down to Capitol Hill anymore either - usually I only go down to visit friends or for a movie. I usually hang out in Wallingford (home) or Downtown/Belltown.

I swear the same folks at the bar in the Elite have been sitting there since I moved to town in 1989. I always thought it looked like one of those historic dioramas....

[PDX City-State]

I think hipsters far outnumber GLBT's in Portland

Shake a tree in this city, and an indie rock band falls out. There is no shortage of hipsters in Portland. They bother me, but generally vote blue and aren't homophobic--so we'll keep them.

[tworivers]

^^^ Hipsters vote?!

[Capitol Hill]

mSeattle, sorry, I forgot about the Cuff.

However, I've heard rumblings of that being developed as well, similar to what I was hearing about 4 years ago with Manray.

So I think 5 years from now, we'll still be going to the Cuff at their present location, 7 years from now? Who knows.

[robbobpdx]

Stark and Burnside meet at a point, with that triangular block headed by the bathhouse and the silverado on one end... on the opposite side, across 13th, is the eagle on the opposite side of the block that has the crystal ballroom

The general consensus is that the eagle is going to have to update itself and not in that slap-dash-still-trash way scandal's did. I really think I wanna start pitching ideas to the collective club owners to sorta get them into thinking about getting with the times.

It will be sad if the "burnside triangle" or "gay triangle" is redeveoped. But whatever is done, I hope the older "hotel" buildings will be kept and remodeled. Some of the old hotels date back to the lumberjack era -- back to when Simon Benson gave the bubbler fountains to the City to give lumberjacks something to drink besides beer and wisky. The hotels (now low income apartments, I think) were where the lumberjacks shaked up on their weekends off, I guess.

At any rate, the neighborhood has evolved over the years, and there are lots of places (CC's, Hoboes, Embers) in other areas nearby. Times gone by, I understand, people used to bar hop from one area to the other (from Stark Street over to old town, and back).

Don't know if that still happens, since I haven't gone out to bars in AGES. I mostly go out when I'm traveling somewhere else -- not because I have anything against gay bars or restaurants here in Portland, but mostly because it's when I have time to go out. Plus, being in a relationship means I do more cacooning now than going out. :)

[dkealoha]

It would be nice to have a identifiable such as Davies in Vancouver

I just visited Vancouver with some friends last weekend and it was my first time on Davie Street. I couldn't believe how much nicer the bars, restaurants, and shops were than the "gay" places here in Portland. I think that with the hotel redevelopment on Stark it may be a good enough anchor that whatever they decide to do with the triangle block, it may still be "gay" but in a nicer building. I also liked the rainbow flags, bright pink bus stops, and bright pink trash cans all down Davie. It was a little overboard, but still defined the street as gay. They still have the sex shops and porn shops on Davie, but they are just in a nicer setting than ours here.

[zilfondel]

Times gone by, I understand, people used to bar hop from one area to the other (from Stark Street over to old town, and back).

Don't know if that still happens, since I haven't gone out to bars in AGES. I mostly go out when I'm traveling somewhere else -- not because I have anything against gay bars or restaurants here in Portland, but mostly because it's when I have time to go out. Plus, being in a relationship means I do more cacooning now than going out. :)


Oh, we do. Trust me.

[alexjon]

Seems the Eagle is moving into the old abandoned chinese restaurant across from House of Louie, or so they're thinking. I think the burnside triangle is about to collapse into history, opting instead for a cheaper and (hopefully) more cohesive "district" in old town.

Lord help me on Double X Dance nights (this month's is tonight! w00t! ... or is that w00f?), I will be so drunk and rolling back and forth between the bars.

[PacificNW]

Have fun! I can see the majority of the gay entertainment life around the Embers/Slaughters area of town. It might be just what Mayor Katz envisioned as the "real beginning of an entertainment district". To paraphrase Mrs. Clinton: "It takes a few 'gay establishments' to make a entertainment district." Be careful crossing Burnside if you get wasted.

[manmade]

The owner of Thumpers was quoted in the PI saying that gays feel safe going almost anywhere in the city and not just to gay bars/clubs anymore, and straights of course had been showing up to gay bars/clubs more and more (Neighbors/R-Place).

Anybody remember the Timberline when it was in the big loghouse (now a Cornish College building), and that little place (can't remember the name) that used to be where "The War Room" is now at Harvard and Pike?

Unfortunately I never went to any gay clubs in Portland, but I can tell you about the little monthly dances in Walla Walla and Touche. :D

Does anyone know how Vancouver BC handled it, building density and keeping night spots? I'd think they would have already experienced what we're starting to down in PDX/SEA.

Do you mean the Brass Menagerie? I didn't even know the Timberline moved! As much as I'll miss almost all the places mentioned in this thread (Portland Eagle can never be replaced), many are haunts from another time and if only for earthquake code things have to change eventually. Gay ghettos were designed for the 70s, their time is way past in Portland and Seattle. If you want to see big, nice, flashy gay bars in a well defined ghetto, Dallas has quite a scene. Gays need to be more proactive about preserving their culture, partly because it's so in demand from hip heterosexuals, but also for a sense of pride and heritage in the midst of modern gays doing tragically unhip things like getting married, having kids, moving into tract homes, and going to church. I do wish there was more consensus so that gay bars could at least still centralize and retain some character for the sake of gays and straights and prevent drunk driving all over town to go bar hopping. Kids will be kids. Most bar going Portlanders and Seattleites, gay and straight are on constant searches to find that perfect divy, seedy bar with developers marching right behind them sterilizing the neighborhoods into Kinko's friendly, cookie cutter, yuppie/guppie planned communities -- it seems counterproductive sometimes.
As for Vancouver, and I haven't been to a gay bar anywhere in years, I always heard they sort of stopped issuing liquor licenses years and years ago, so the few that remained became add-on frankensteins of their former selves, some obviously updated with the monopoly and others did not. And considering how early all the swank hotel bars close, I never envied their bar situation that much. But fortunately or not things change.

[J. Will]

"Does anyone know how Vancouver BC handled it, building density and keeping night spots?"

Vancouver largely concentrates it's nightclubs on Granville Street, and it's condos at least one block east and one blocks west of Granville. 200-300 feet or so of "buffer" is plenty enough in most cases.

[alexjon]

Wow, I got a bit tipsy

I did catch that the building is already set to be redeveloped into some 2 story glass and brick thing, but I didn't catch any other details about it.

[seaskyfan]

Two stories? Wow - I would have thought they'd go higher. What's the height limit there?

That actually seems like pretty good recall after a night at the Eagle! :)

[Hoodrat]

Do you mean the Brass Menagerie? .

You mean the Brass Connection (a.k.a. The Ass Infection):cool:

[westsider]

:haha: That is too funny.

[alexjon]

Two stories? Wow - I would have thought they'd go higher. What's the height limit there?

That actually seems like pretty good recall after a night at the Eagle! :)

I ended the night at C.C.'s with drunken bears... I had jager, a long island, lots of miller, lots of malibu...

... in the last hour.

The 30 minutes after that kinda run together

[Dr. Smoke]

Ah, that's nothin'. When I tie one on, I start at 2:00pm, and am really rolling by 6:00. Need time to enjoy it, kind of like a shitty second cousin thrice-removed to my high school days doing psilocybin.

Whatever happened to all the psilocybin, mescaline and acid? Where did it all go?
(Remember, these are actually pleasurable, in small doses)

[alexjon]

Well, not quite sure on all that, but I know I can probably barely skirt by legally with the mescaline... I should get some!

[MarkDaMan]

They aren't destroying the Eagle building, just renovating the existing structure similiar to what they did to the American Apparel building.

I agree the gay triangle in Portland is basically dead. I would like to see the Eagle and Silverado as well as a new establishment, move in around CC's, Embers and Hobos, along with additional 'heterosexual' clubs. I hate having friends in town and having to cab it from one group of two or three bars to another group of a couple bars...it would be nice to have a thriving entertainment district, and OTCT seems to have the space and a lack of neighbors to complain. I also think Portland would be unique in having an entertainment district that has straight and gay clubbers mingling on the street and sharing each other's venues.

I don't however morn the loss of the current establishments in current form. While I have great respect for the early generation of gays that burst into America and demanded some respect, I do think the community has matured over the years, and the establishments we relax in should reflect the relatively new thinking amongst gays that we aren't a seperate class in America and shouldn't have to hide (for our own protection) in the seedy back alley corner bars in our respective hometowns.

[PacificNW]

From an old farts point of view: "right on Mark"....

[seaskyfan]

I agree as well Mark. Bars with covered windows are no longer necessary.

I will miss the historic quality of the Eagle though. Seemed like the equivalent of going to the leather bar in Colonial Williamsburg.

[westsider]

I had no idea there are so many gays on this forum, it's an interesting role reversal because now I feel like I'm out of the loop. I've never been in one of those places you guys are talking about but I can see old town or maybe even the eastside around Burnside becoming a new hotspot for gay bars.

[alexjon]

I'm an Eagle regular.

Anyway, the new building has a little baby spire! Everyone all together, "Awwwww". Unless it's a sign, but it looks spire-y.

And the eagle is moving by house of louie.

[PacificNW]

I hope they keep that Eagle feeling at the new location...

[Dr. Smoke]

I had no idea there are so many gays on this forum,
Me neither.

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

[alexjon]

That's funny.

[robbobpdx]

Me neither.

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

Hmmmm :rolleyes: Interesting comment made in a thread called "there goes the gayborhood."

Of course there are alot of gays who are creative. No big surpise there. This is only one thread on a host of threads about development and skyscrapers around the world, but nontheless it's about a neighborhood that historically has had gay establishments and as it turns out may be changing from that. So no big surprise those on the forum who feel comfortable talking about the gay establishments in the area that has historically been gay. At least, it's no surpise to me.

[dkealoha]

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

My boyfriend is a general contractor and has his own construction and design company... so yes, gayness can mix with construction.

[seaskyfan]

Me neither.

These guys architects? Builders? What?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

Ignorant comment. If you're trying to be funny you missed by a mile.

[PacificNW]

I don't quite get the comment either, Dr. Smoke, but I will you the benefit of the doubt. Years ago I had a friend who owned a Portland home building firm. For many years he built one of the models for the "Street of Dreams". He happened to be gay.

[Dr. Smoke]

As expected, a couple here didn't get me, but most did. Kudos to those. First of all, Ah'm a transplanted Texan and I don't really care what people think, so I am usually honest. I think people prefer this anyway.

Second, the intent of my comment was to try and learn something. I did learn a bit, and sometimes the only way to get the truth is to probe the 'gray area'. Now that people know this, the responses won't be so honest. But people definitely sorted out here though, notice?

As most members here are progressive (me being farther Left than this), gays should know they are among friends. Even the conservatives here have proven tolerant. I will observe though, that culturally some things are just personal. This is what I meant to point out with my drugs post above.

I've learned more about the nature of gay neighborhoods in this thread and so it's been useful, but wouldn't think about discussing the best place to pick up a hot chick, etc. Some things are just personal, gay or straight. :rolleyes:

[MarkDaMan]

^I tend to agree with most of what you've stated. In discussing the fabric of our cities as we do on this board, it would be a mistake not to talk about the cultural phenomenon of the 70's when gay districts popped up in most major cities across America, and their recent disappearing act. As traditionally 'heterosexual' night clubs, usually cleaner, brighter and offering a range of music and theme, in more progressive cities actively go after gay clientele with gay nights, and very gay friendly weekends, the earlier generation of America's gay movement is fading into history. It really hasn't been discussed though, even in the gay community, how the lack of a gay main street might impact not only the community, but the city as a whole.

I tend to think the lack of a gay triangle might be good for Portland. As the gays come out of their ghetto, compacting into the OTCT ghetto, with its mix of straight strip clubs only blocks from a female impersonator night spot, and everything in between, I think it will create a more secure and higher quality scene for gays, and a better night scene for the city.

That said, I still don't get what this implied?

Seems like gayness wouldn't mix with construction. Seems like construction workers and developers would object to 'gaying it up', under any circumstances.

because, I don't exude a 'gayness' and I wouldn't expect contruction workers or developers to 'gay it up'. In fact, you'd probably be hard pressed to pick myself, and my partner, as a gay couple. Shit, a weekend back at the mall I got a female cashiers number given to me, she thought me and my friend were 'cute'. Although I find it a bit uncomfortable, I smiled, said hi, walked off and the number is still at the bottom of one of my shopping bags (if any heteros here are interested she was a hottie).

I don't demand my current employer to paint my walls in pink, wispy whisper when speaking to me, or softly shake my hand. I'm a dude into dudes, I watch football, drink beer, cuss too much, and belch and fart...Since I've finally decided to get an urban development degree and leave my current field after I'm done with school, I think I'll fit right in with construction workers, developers, and whoever else I need to deal with in this field whether they be overly masculine or overly feminine, or even women...

[Dr. Smoke]

I was trying to figure out where y'all fit. I think we all know the culture of development and construction, and particularly being from Texas I was surprised that maybe half of the members in this forum are gay.

My statement was the wedge intended to split the atoms, trying to ascertain the true nature of things. I've pretty much failed though, as no real insights emerged.

I am still trying to figure out Seattle culture in general. I can tell you though, that it is a sweet piece of pie, compared with Dallas. People are universally nicer and there's far less corruption, although it is run more like a small town, which is perplexing. Large meetings are more like self-congratulatory back-slapping affairs, rather than for work. No one I've come across though, works on the level I need to help me understand how to better function here.

As I am a Leftist, trapped for 52 years in Dallas, I can tell you that the PacNW is a breath of fresh air. And I am actively trying to learn about things.

[seaskyfan]

I find your explanations as lame as your post.

You could have simply said "I'm surprised by the number of gay folks in this forum - are you folks in construction/development and if so do you experience homophobia?" but instead you went with the "gaying it up" crack.

Being a "leftist" or probing "the gray area" isn't a license to be offensive in my book.

It's also interesting to me that there isn't a "if I offended anyone I'm sorry" bit in either of you posts, just some stuff about how some people got it and how you don't care anyway but that you think most folks prefer honesty.

[Dr. Smoke]

Whelp, I tried to explain.

Take it, or leave it.

[Drmyeyes]

I think I can understand the texan being surprized and unfamiliar with who it is today that might be interested in and are becoming involved with the construction field.

A lot of people tend to rely on the widely made suggestion that construction is still a "man's" world, influenced as they are by the media and culture. Straight, not gay. At least, in the area of construction most of the public would be most familiar with; the labor seen on construction sites wearing baggy, worn, dirty carharts, scraggly beards, and so forth, that is contrary to the publicly ingrained perception of gays...well, gay men, as effete, fastidious types.

Of course, most of you guys are probably heading for some upper level work related to construction. So maybe there, you won't experience the effects of cartoon characterization.

[Dr. Smoke]

You could have simply said "I'm surprised by the number of gay folks in this forum - are you folks in construction/development and if so do you experience homophobia?" but instead you went with the "gaying it up" crack.

Being a "leftist" or probing "the gray area" isn't a license to be offensive in my book.
For the record: I have no doubt that you found it humorous when Jon Stewart on The Daily Show said "gaying it up". He meant it in a facetious and humorous manner. For this reason, I did not foresee that anyone here would find this to have malignant intent, and it was in a humorous tone that I wrote that.

Now; I can understand how some of you would be hyper-sensitive, given the treatment and discrimination you guys experience. Trust me, I saw it in Dallas, particularly in High School; I was aware of it because I care. But reflexively presuming the worst, is not the way to make friends. It is the path to unhappiness.

So give a brother a break, hm? :cool:

[roner]

Dr. Smoke,

Portland is in the top 6 cities of per capta gay populations. Therefore, it should be no suprise that gays work in all fields in Portland.

[seaskyfan]

For the record: I have no doubt that you found it humorous when Jon Stewart on The Daily Show said "gaying it up". He meant it in a facetious and humorous manner. For this reason, I did not foresee that anyone here would find this to have malignant intent, and it was in a humorous tone that I wrote that.

Now; I can understand how some of you would be hyper-sensitive, given the treatment and discrimination you guys experience. Trust me, I saw it in Dallas, particularly in High School; I was aware of it because I care. But reflexively presuming the worst, is not the way to make friends. It is the path to unhappiness.

So give a brother a break, hm? :cool:

No worries, guy.

It seems like a leap to think that because it's funny when Jon Stewart says it, people will think it's funny coming from you. On a forum like this I've found you need to be pretty clear on your intent because it is so tough to reliably tell tone. From your post I couldn't tell whether you were trying to be funny or if you were a clueless asshole.

Welcome to the blue states. :)

[MarkDaMan]

For the record: I have no doubt that you found it humorous when Jon Stewart on The Daily Show said "gaying it up". He meant it in a facetious and humorous manner. For this reason, I did not foresee that anyone here would find this to have malignant intent, and it was in a humorous tone that I wrote that.

I don't think you are a homophobe at all, and I do thank you for your support and understanding, as well as your willingness to go a little bit deeper to explain your intent.

I have on a few occasions misunderstood other posts as rude or intolerant, as well as others have taken my posts to be inflamitory when it was humor, not offensive as taken. Welcome to the digital world, I guess that is why they allow us to put 'smileys' on our posts.

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[MarkDaMan]

Actually just about 9% of Portlanders openly identify themselves as homosexual. Given that there is about half that gay community in the closet (even my partner of almost 7 years wouldn't select gay if that were an option), whether because of family, work, religious affiliation, or any other reason, that number can easily best 15%, which even at 9%, is larger than most minority populations in Portland.

I don't have first hand knowledge about the situation gays face in the construction and the developer workforce. To be perfectly honest, I am going to focus my education on being a planner, not a hard hat worker. I do think the urban planning world is extremely gay friendly, probably moreso than being out in the field doing the dirty work. I wouldn't be surprised if that accounts for the large population of gays on this board. I also don't think that many construction workers get off their shift, and than blog the evening away talking about buildings...we don't really get the builder perspective here, more the future outlook.

[seaskyfan]

I'm a former planner and I agree that field is very gay friendly, as is architecture (although I think planning is even friendlier).

I do know some gay/lesbian contractors and construction workers (even one male-to-female transgendered construction worker). For the most part these are folks who don't take crap from people but even so I know that a lot of them tend to work for smaller firms, especially those that target the LGBT community (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender). When we did our kitchen remodel we hired a general contractor who was a lesbian and she worked primarily with subs from the community. They did an awesome job - the shimming she had to do to get everything level in my cranky 1906 house was truly amazing.

A recent study had Seattle as second only to SF in gay/lesbian population (something like 12+%).

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[65MAX]

Architecture firms, similar to the arts community, are very gay-friendly, to the point it's really a non-issue (which is how it should be anyway).

[alexjon]

I was trying to figure out where y'all fit. I think we all know the culture of development and construction, and particularly being from Texas I was surprised that maybe half of the members in this forum are gay.

I'm from San Antonio, and I can tell you that I am not surprised in the least.

[Urbanpdx]

...I am a Leftist developer...

For general labor though, I try and hire from AA programs, the Native American community, and halfway houses. Regular vanilla subs are so difficult and expen$ive. Hm, maybe GLBT subs would be expensive...


I can't help but wonder, as a "leftist developer" why you don't pay prevailing wages so the people you empoy can earn a "living wage". Prevailing wages are quite a bit higher than "vanilla subs" so they or GLBT subs should not really be too expensive.

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[Urbanpdx]

How are you so sure?

Do you pay your workers prevailing wages? Do you even pay the going rate for regular "vanilla" subs? If not, how are you really a "leftist developer"? How are you different from NIKE paying low wages in third world countries? Aren't you just lining your greedy pockets on the backs of members of "AA programs, the Native American community, and halfway houses"?

Do you believe that the prevailing wage law should be repealed?

Are all of your subs licensed and propertly insured for the work they do on your projects? Do you and your subs have enough insurance to protect people that buy your products for the entire 10 year statute of ultimate repose?

People who live in glass houses....

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[Urbanpdx]

By not answering the question can we all assume the answers are all yes?

[Hoodrat]

Chill out everyone, no need to be so damned accusatory.

[westsider]

It's a good point. If smokie wants to show how liberal and compassionate he is, he should pay his druggie employees a living wage in hopes they could pull themselves out of the halfway house.

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[Urbanpdx]

:hell:


:haha:

[Dr. Smoke]

.

[pdxtraveler]

What a disappointment. Everytime I bring up this thread to read more about the evolution of Stark St. the postings have nothing to do with it! The Ace is supposed to open this month I heard. I know that Stumptown and a Jewish deli are opening in their retail area. But the old Scandals spot still seems to have a for lease sign up, so maybe we can get another gay bar or lounge down there to make up for the departures.

[PacificNW]

I thought Stumptown was going to take the old Scandals spot....I agree with your observations about this thread. Let's hope it get back to the topic... these "other discussions" have become tiring. :)

[asher519]

I'm so happy to hear a Jewish deli is opening in the Ace Hotel. Hopefully it'll be a bit more like my favorite spots back east, but even a deli more closely resembling Kornblatt's is greatly welcomed!

[Urbanpdx]

I too hope for a great deli. Kornblatt's, imho, hasn't been the same since the origional owner sold several years ago. Lucky we can get so much great deli food via fed ex. Actually, I just got a delivery of H&H bagles, I swear they are still warm!

[PacificNW]

A deli for that neighborhood will be great..

[Urbanpdx]

Actually, it would be nice if several reasonably priced, locally owned, restaurants found a home in that area. They could feed off of Pearl escapees and locals. Places like Nicholas', Pak Pak, Miso Happy, Halibuts, varios Pho and Vietnamese sandwich joints, taquerias, etc.

[seaskyfan]

Speaking of gayborhoods The Eagle in Seattle has a brand spanking new Victrola Coffee (with roasting plant) next store now. Victrola's great but it does seem like the coffee places and condos are taking over Pike/Pine.

[PacificNW]

Is it a part of the Eagle? I saw the construction going on while living there but I understood it was just an expansion of the Eagle. So I take it that they are entirely two separate establishments or should I wear leather chaps when I order my latte'? :)

[seaskyfan]

It appears to be completely separate and it makes the Eagle look like even more of a dive (if that's possible). I think you can wear your leather chaps but at Victrola you might want to wear something underneath them. :)

[PacificNW]

Yah, my skinny butt needs covering, seriously.