[Seely32]

$14M cruise industry winds up season

Bruce Bartlett
Telegraph-Journal
Published Thursday October 25th, 2007
Appeared on page C4
SAINT JOHN - The final cruise ship of the season left Wednesday at 7 p.m., winding up a season that saw passenger numbers increase by 50 per cent over 2006.

With the departure of the Grand Princess, the city had officially welcomed more than 130,000 passengers and 50,000 crew members over the past five months.

"Saint John has firmly established itself as a marquee port in the Canada-New England cruise theatre," said Betty MacMillan, manager of business development for the Saint John Port Authority.

"The seven, four-day cruises calling at Saint John exclusively, were overwhelmingly successful and we look forward to hosting those weekend cruises again next summer."

The 53 vessels that called this year contributed an estimated $14 million to the local economy and next year is shaping up to be even brighter, she said.

"Many factors have contributed to the spectacular growth in the cruise industry for Saint John," said Capt. Al Soppitt, president and CEO of the Saint John Port Authority. "Since the very first ships began to regularly call in 1989, this city has pulled out all the stops to make the visitors feel welcome."

Because of the continued growth in this sector the port authority plans to go ahead with construction of the new cruise terminal building, which Soppitt said will be completed in time to welcome passengers for the 2008 season.

The Port of Saint John is a commercially viable, self-sufficient business enterprise and a cornerstone of the local economy, said Soppitt.

It is a critical component of the region's transportation infrastructure and is essential to many of New Brunswick's major industries engaged in international trade. It provides deep-water, ice-free access to shipping year round.

The cruise industry is growing annually and in addition to the dollars spent by cruise passengers while visiting Saint John, many use their days in port to decide whether they would like to return for a longer, land-based holiday, said Beth Kelly Hatt, owner of Aquila Tours.

[Helladog]

[details Of New Arena Unveiled]
Oct.26th/2007/10:44am:

Chsj News Has Obtained Preliminary Details For The New Wellness Center To Be Constructed In Quispamsis. The Estimated $16 Million Dollar Facility Includes An Nhl Size Arena And Out-door Pool Which Will Includes Six Junior Olympic Sized Lanes With Capacity For 450 Swimmers. There Will Be A Trade And Convention Center Component With A 5000 Square Feet Multi-purpose Room, An Elevated Walking Track Consisting Of Three Lanes, Each Four Feet Wide And A Re-constructed Soccer Field With Artificial Turf And Lights.

The Town Is Making Various Applications To Help Fund The Center With One Being To The Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency. A Letter Has Been Distributed To Members Of The K.v. Chamber Of Commerce Asking Them To Put On Paper A Few Remarks About The Benefits Of Such A Set-up As Part Of The Acoa Criteria.


[valley Nursing Complex In Home Stretch]
Oct25/07 1:32pm

Work On The New Kingsway Valley Care Center Along The Gondola Point Arterial Is Now Into The Home Stretch.
Board Member Mike Brennan Tells Chsj News, Construction Of The Building Is Expected To Finish Up On The 21st Of December.
Brennan Says The Biggest Part Of The Process Is Underway Right Now As They Look To Hire Staff So They Can Be Trained Which They Hope To Have Finished By The End Of Next Month Of The First Of December.

[rec Committee Still Working]
Oct25/07 1:32pm

It’s Been Awhile Since We Told You Where Things Stand With A New Arena Or Sports Complex For Saint John But Today We Have An Update.
Chair Of The Multi-plex Task Force Bob Manning Tells Chsj News, They Have Been Working Closely With City Officials To Decide Where They Want To Take The Next Phase.
Manning Says It’s Important They Take A Close Look At The Recreational Commitments That Have Been Made In The Kennebecasis Valley And Re-assess Where They Are Before Making A Final Committment.


[irving Refinery]
Oct25/07/4:21pm

Irving Oil Is Continuing Its Search For A Partner To Build A Second Oil Refinery In Saint John. General Manager Of Processing And Transportation, Gary Bishoff Tells Chsj News The Project Is Attracting A Lot Of Attention.

Bishoff Says He Hopes To Announce A Potential Partner Soon. In The Meantime, Irving Oil Is Also Working On Permits, And Engineering Studies.


[two Big Names In Lineup For Next Year’s Cruise Season]
Oct26/07 12:12pm

Just Days After This Year’s Cruise Ship Season Finished Up -- The Saint John Port Authority Has Announced There Are 82 Scheduled Calls Booked For 2008.
It Kicks Off On May.31st With A Return Visit Of The Bre-men Which Will Be The First Of 180,000 Passengers To Arrive In Saint John.

The Season Will Be High-lighted With A Visit From The Queen Mary Two And The Queen Elizabeth Two. Next Year Will Mark The Final Season For The Q.e.2. Because She Has Been Sold And Will Become A Floating Hotel In Dubai.
Next Years Cruise Season Will Also Mark A First When We Host Four Vessels On Sept.30th.

[kwajo]

Getting 180,000 cruise ship passengers will be a great season for Saint John. That would put us on equal terms with Halifax as a cruise destination (who got between 170-180,000 this year).

I hope this keep momentum going for improving and restoring Uptown. I know they are all just temporary visitors, but tourism projects like Harbour Passage have benefitted locals as much as anyone, and I'd love to see that kind of universally beneficial spending increase.

[Ottawa]

It isn't politics, it's a fact. I for one am very happy that the Halifax booster group AIMS isn't running the country...

N.B. is key player in Atlantic Gateway

Paul Zed
Commentary
Published Friday October 26th, 2007
Appeared on page A7

Saint John and New Brunswick are on the move with many new and exciting projects underway. There is a real sense of optimism about the future.

Recently, I participated in a steering committee convened by Mayor Norm McFarlane at City Hall to study the possibility of establishing a Southern New Brunswick Gateway Council. I believe strongly that if we are to fully capitalize on our opportunities we need to look at how we can best use our marine, road, rail, and air transportation infrastructure. We are uniquely positioned to harness our transportation assets to facilitate more efficient North American and global trade.

The creation of a Southern New Brunswick Gateway is one way that this could be accomplished.

I am pleased that the federal government has announced a $2.1 billion national trade gateway fund which builds on the concept that was developed by previous Liberal governments for Pacific and Atlantic Gateways. I am also pleased that the federal government has now signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the development of Canada's Atlantic Gateway with all Atlantic Canadian governments.

Against this backdrop of such positive news, it is irritating to read such ill-informed comments of Charles Cirtwill, President of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies (AIMS) who stated that "New Brunswick is very much a secondary area" of a gateway and that Halifax is likely to be a central peg of a gateway worthy of millions in government funding. These types of comments are divisive and reflect a profound ignorance of New Brunswick and our historic trading relationships, and that of the other eastern provinces.

Let's look at the facts. New Brunswick has a very busy border crossing with the United States, a strong port with plenty of room to grow, an expanding airport and good rail connections. The Port of Saint John is one of Canada's most diverse marine gateways, and one of Canada's largest ports for cargo, even though it is currently underutilized. The Chair and Board of the Port Authority have shown important leadership by driving the establishment of a southern gateway concept. We are looking at increased bulk cargo, the opening of a liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal, the expansion of potash, as well as in increase in the number of cruise ship arrivals.

Clearly, Cirtwill's comments in no way reflect the capabilities of our infrastructure in New Brunswick.

Southern New Brunswick and greater Saint John have the elements of an integrated transportation system necessary to be a prime partner in any gateway strategy. Further comments by Cirtwill that he sees "no pressing need for federal money for port or transportation infrastructure in Atlantic Canada right now" simply does not reflect the reality. Currently our port needs a major investment to upgrade the western docks in our harbour and this is the whole point of the gateway strategy; harnessing and improving our infrastructure assets to facilitate greater international trade. We also need to improve rail service and enhance competition to give shippers better and more choices.

While Cirtwill and AIMS may like to look at gateway funding as nothing more than a competition amongst regions for money, we look at it as an investment in our communities. Re-investment of our tax dollars into infrastructure helps us to move our community forward.

I agree with the Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency Minister Peter MacKay who has made this clear by signing this agreement with all Atlantic Provinces. I applaud Mr. MacKay's comments that New Brunswick will play a major role in the Atlantic Gateway and that the gateway project encompasses the entire Atlantic region, not just Halifax.

It is a shame that an organization like AIMS that purports to be a catalyst for informed debate would make such uninformed comments. We will always win as a region by working together as a team.

This is what we have been doing in Saint John with the important work of Team Saint John.

Politicians of all levels and stripes need to stick together as this is about building a better self-sufficient economy in our region. The Atlantic Gateway has the potential to create more than 60,000 jobs for the region and could result in billions of dollars in economic growth over the next two decades. Labour, business and governments are coming together to understand that trade and immigration gateways are a part of our history, and a party of our future. Let's continue to work together to make this project a reality.

[Seely32]

more cruise ship news......

Port will have four cruise ships in one day

Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday October 27th, 2007
Appeared on page B3
SAINT JOHN - According to the port authority, the number of visits by cruise ships to Saint John in 2008 will jump by 29 - a record year. Last year, 53 cruise ships anchored in the city.

Some 180,000 cruise ship passengers will visit in 2008.

Capt. Al Soppitt, president and CEO of the Saint John Port Authority, said they've come a long way since the first cruise ship tied up here in 1989.

"The investments we've made and continue to make into our cruise business is continuing to pay dividends for all of Saint John," Soppitt said in a press release.

Next year's season will begin with a visit on May 31 by the Hapag-Lloyd Line's Bremen and its 1,800 passengers. In 2008, Carnival Cruise Lines will mark its 10th anniversary of making port here.

Both the Queen Mary 2 and the Queen Elizabeth 2 - her last year of cruising - will also be visiting. She has been sold and will become a floating hotel in Dubai at the end of the 2008 season.

The port will experience a rarity when it hosts four cruise ships on Sept. 30.

The schedule is out early this year and still subject to change.

[Seely32]

A Clean Start
Sewage: The long-awaited harbour cleanup project is underway - behind the scenes and in public view


John Mazerolle
Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday October 27th, 2007
Appeared on page B1
SAINT JOHN - Like the harbour sewage it will one day eliminate, the City of Saint John's $80-million harbour cleanup project is not apparent much of the time, but it's there all the same.

Land expropriation, design work and an environmental impact assessment are well underway, along with the more obvious construction work taking place on the Red Head Road.

"I'm happy with the progress," said Paul Groody, commissioner of operations and engineering. "There's always a challenge when you take on a project this size. But our goal is still to have this completed by 2011."

The final piece of the necessary funding - $26.6 million from the federal government - was announced in March. Since then, the city has embarked on a five-year plan that was approved by common council in February.

The project, hailed by community leaders as the most important in the city's history, will see the collection and treatment of about 16 million litres of raw sewage a day - all of which currently flows directly into Saint John Harbour, contaminating the water and often filling the air with a fecal stench.

So far the only construction work is a sanitary forcemain being installed on the Red Head Road by Crandall Engineering. That pipe will eventually lead to the Eastern Wastewater Treatment Facility, which will collect and treat every drop of sewage that now hits the harbour.

The $46-million facility, which will be located off the Red Head Road near Hazen Creek, is currently going through an environmental impact assessment with the provincial Department of the Environment. Groody said the city is into the third round of questions and answers with officials.

"It will close within a month or two, that's what we're hoping," he said. "After that tenders will go out nationwide for the wastewater treatment facility. That's sort of the heart of the whole thing."

The plant will use so-called secondary level treatment. Primary treatment just sieves out any solvents, but secondary treatment uses biological agents to eat the contaminants and UV to treat the effluent before it's released. The construction is slated to take between 20 and 24 months, once ground is broken at the site.

The city's original cleanup plan spanned 10 years, but the timeline was reduced to seven years at the urging of Premier Shawn Graham. It was later cut down to five, at the suggestion of city staff.

Groody said that once the project is done the city's three treatment facilities - Eastern, Millidgeville and the Lancaster lagoon - will meet both current needs and future development.

And, for the long-term, the eastern facility will be built in a way that allows for "considerable extra capacity" if that ever becomes necessary, he said.

Next year is the most expensive in the five-year plan, with work happening on the treatment plant, on a major sewage pumping station near the Marco Polo bridge, and on another pump in the Spar Cove Road area. The Spar Cove work was supposed to happen in 2011, but the city moved its construction up because the natural gas company Brunswick Pipeline is drilling under the St. John River in the same area. It made more sense to do the work collaboratively, Groody said.

The move forced the city to reshuffle the construction order of some of the other pumps being installed throughout the city, but it didn't change the complete project's cost or the end date.

Designs are also being worked on now for pumping stations at Long Wharf and Bayside Drive.

The work so far is spread between three companies, but the work on the remaining pumping stations will all be completed by one company. A public call for the design and construction management of at least eight different locations will be advertised in the next few weeks.

"That will be a huge challenge for the industry out there and we look forward to going through that process," Groody said.

Citizens should begin noticing a difference once the wastewater treatment plant is completed, likely by the end of 2009. The lower end of Marsh Creek will run clear for the first time in recent history, and the "open sewer" near Bayside Middle School and Midland trucking will disappear.

"Once these things are done, sewage will stop flowing into those areas," Groody said.

In 2011, work will be completed on the final pumping stations at Riverview Drive, Gault Road and Indiantown, and untreated sewage will be a thing of the past in Saint John.

[michael_d40]

more cruise ship news......

Port will have four cruise ships in one day

Telegraph-Journal
Published Saturday October 27th, 2007
Appeared on page B3
SAINT JOHN - According to the port authority, the number of visits by cruise ships to Saint John in 2008 will jump by 29 - a record year. Last year, 53 cruise ships anchored in the city.

Some 180,000 cruise ship passengers will visit in 2008.

Capt. Al Soppitt, president and CEO of the Saint John Port Authority, said they've come a long way since the first cruise ship tied up here in 1989.

"The investments we've made and continue to make into our cruise business is continuing to pay dividends for all of Saint John," Soppitt said in a press release.

Next year's season will begin with a visit on May 31 by the Hapag-Lloyd Line's Bremen and its 1,800 passengers. In 2008, Carnival Cruise Lines will mark its 10th anniversary of making port here.

Both the Queen Mary 2 and the Queen Elizabeth 2 - her last year of cruising - will also be visiting. She has been sold and will become a floating hotel in Dubai at the end of the 2008 season.

The port will experience a rarity when it hosts four cruise ships on Sept. 30.

The schedule is out early this year and still subject to change.


Were on a roll !! :notacrook:

[Seely32]

The cruise ship welcome center is going to help imensely. It seemed this year that every time a cruise ship was in it was beautiful out it looks like mother nature is trying to help us out some to.

The only thing that worries me is the soaring canadian dollar is closed at 1.039 yesterday. Hopefully that doesnt make american travelers a little more weery to travel. Even though most stores in the city still take american money at par pretty much.

The businesses on water street are being helped a ton by the industry and hopefully some more retail will open up down there and lead the keg to invest on that street.

[kwajo]

It isn't politics, it's a fact. I for one am very happy that the Halifax booster group AIMS isn't running the country...

N.B. is key player in Atlantic Gateway

Paul Zed
Commentary
Published Friday October 26th, 2007
Appeared on page A7

Saint John and New Brunswick are on the move with many new and exciting projects underway. There is a real sense of optimism about the future.

Recently, I participated in a steering committee convened by Mayor Norm McFarlane at City Hall to study the possibility of establishing a Southern New Brunswick Gateway Council. I believe strongly that if we are to fully capitalize on our opportunities we need to look at how we can best use our marine, road, rail, and air transportation infrastructure. We are uniquely positioned to harness our transportation assets to facilitate more efficient North American and global trade.

The creation of a Southern New Brunswick Gateway is one way that this could be accomplished.

I am pleased that the federal government has announced a $2.1 billion national trade gateway fund which builds on the concept that was developed by previous Liberal governments for Pacific and Atlantic Gateways. I am also pleased that the federal government has now signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the development of Canada's Atlantic Gateway with all Atlantic Canadian governments.

Against this backdrop of such positive news, it is irritating to read such ill-informed comments of Charles Cirtwill, President of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies (AIMS) who stated that "New Brunswick is very much a secondary area" of a gateway and that Halifax is likely to be a central peg of a gateway worthy of millions in government funding. These types of comments are divisive and reflect a profound ignorance of New Brunswick and our historic trading relationships, and that of the other eastern provinces.

Let's look at the facts. New Brunswick has a very busy border crossing with the United States, a strong port with plenty of room to grow, an expanding airport and good rail connections. The Port of Saint John is one of Canada's most diverse marine gateways, and one of Canada's largest ports for cargo, even though it is currently underutilized. The Chair and Board of the Port Authority have shown important leadership by driving the establishment of a southern gateway concept. We are looking at increased bulk cargo, the opening of a liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal, the expansion of potash, as well as in increase in the number of cruise ship arrivals.

Clearly, Cirtwill's comments in no way reflect the capabilities of our infrastructure in New Brunswick.

Southern New Brunswick and greater Saint John have the elements of an integrated transportation system necessary to be a prime partner in any gateway strategy. Further comments by Cirtwill that he sees "no pressing need for federal money for port or transportation infrastructure in Atlantic Canada right now" simply does not reflect the reality. Currently our port needs a major investment to upgrade the western docks in our harbour and this is the whole point of the gateway strategy; harnessing and improving our infrastructure assets to facilitate greater international trade. We also need to improve rail service and enhance competition to give shippers better and more choices.

While Cirtwill and AIMS may like to look at gateway funding as nothing more than a competition amongst regions for money, we look at it as an investment in our communities. Re-investment of our tax dollars into infrastructure helps us to move our community forward.

I agree with the Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency Minister Peter MacKay who has made this clear by signing this agreement with all Atlantic Provinces. I applaud Mr. MacKay's comments that New Brunswick will play a major role in the Atlantic Gateway and that the gateway project encompasses the entire Atlantic region, not just Halifax.

It is a shame that an organization like AIMS that purports to be a catalyst for informed debate would make such uninformed comments. We will always win as a region by working together as a team.

This is what we have been doing in Saint John with the important work of Team Saint John.

Politicians of all levels and stripes need to stick together as this is about building a better self-sufficient economy in our region. The Atlantic Gateway has the potential to create more than 60,000 jobs for the region and could result in billions of dollars in economic growth over the next two decades. Labour, business and governments are coming together to understand that trade and immigration gateways are a part of our history, and a party of our future. Let's continue to work together to make this project a reality.
Looks like Paul must have read my comment in this forum where I said I was "increasingly annoyed by everything that comes out of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies," because he echoed my thoughts exactly :D

[Haliguy]

I think Saint John has a big role to play here, but there are reasons Nova Scotia will be the focal point in the beginning anyway. One of the reasons that Nova Scotia and particularly Halifax is seen as a focal point for the Atlantic Gateway is because of the deep-water ports as well as the infrastructure that is already in place to handle post panamax container ships. It is also closer to the trans Atlantic shipping lanes. Another reason is that the NS government has taken the lead on this and has made this an economic priority for the province for a few years now. Check the website:http://theatlanticgateway.ca

[GUB]

Encouraging to see Mr. Zed backing the Atlantic Gateway initiative. The question now, is can he actually make something happen for a change?--That I seriously doubt!

[Ottawa]

I think Saint John has a big role to play here, but there are reasons Nova Scotia will be the focal point in the beginning anyway. One of the reasons that Nova Scotia and particularly Halifax is seen as a focal point for the Atlantic Gateway is because of the deep-water ports as well as the infrastructure that is already in place to handle post panamax container ships. It is also closer to the trans Atlantic shipping lanes. Another reason is that the NS government has taken the lead on this and has made this an economic priority for the province for a few years now. Check the website:http://theatlanticgateway.ca

I think everyone here would agree that Halifax's advantage is that it has the deepest harbour on the east coast of NA and that it has approximately one day shipping time advantage over NY/NJ for goods going through the Suez Canal, Mediterranean sea.

Seriously, that is about it for Halifax. After the products land in NS, the only way to market is through New Brunswick. And the shortest route to the US is through southern NB. Even the shortest routes to the rest of Canada go through southern NB and Maine. This is a very, very competitive marketplace and the US is throwing billions into infrastucture - not just in port facilities, but highways and railroads as well. Maine and northern New England will have to come to the table on this as well in order for this to succeed. I am hopeful this will succeed eventually but rail and road networks in this area are in need of some major investment if the potential for a major transshipment hub is to be realized.

Leave out the infrastructure to get the product to market and you're left with just making a political decision to throw more money at Halifax. That's what AIMS has been promoting lately and it won't work. It has to be a regional goal or it won't work.

[Ottawa]

Encouraging to see Mr. Zed backing the Atlantic Gateway initiative. The question now, is can he actually make something happen for a change?--That I seriously doubt!

If the politicos in NS have their eye on the big picture, they will understand that this needs to be a regional initiative from day one. Every politician and every business person from NB, NS, Maine, etc. needs to be together on this because upgrades are needed almost everywhere. I think Peter Mackay understands that. But I don't think AIMS knows what's needed here. Due to geography, I would even say this needs to be an Atlantica initiative.

[Haliguy]

I don't think anybody said it is not a regional project. All the provinces must be involved, so maybe the NB government should take more of an interest in it and maybe Halifax should be an energy hub as well after all NS does have the gas resources.

[skyscraper_1]

The gateway is very important regional project. AIMS is very much aware of the fact the infrastructure upgrades from Halifax though Maine are needed, Imagine how much better Saint John would do if there was a road that cut through Maine directly to Montreal and Toronto. Although the "Gateway" itself will generate thousands of Jobs in Halifax, many thousands more throughout the region would be created in the spin-off.

Here is a proposal that is of GREAT interest to Saint John and the region as a whole

From the AIMS site
East-west toll road proposed for Maine

Bangor Daily News

Dated: 24/8/07


by Anne Ravanna

ORONO - The president and CEO of Cianbro Corp. on Tuesday unveiled a proposal for an east-west toll highway in Maine, his contribution to a series of discussions on how Maine can better align itself with Canada to pursue economic development.

A toll highway from Calais to Coburn Gore is the only solution to the pressing need for a better way to cross the state, Peter G. Vigue said. The highway would significantly reduce travel time, costs and fuel emissions for the 1,000 heavy American and Canadian trucks that travel through Calais daily and are banned from the interstate because of their weight.

"The largest investors in this state in the last 10 years are the Canadians. Let’s accept it, embrace it, understand it. We’re not competitors," Vigue said.

The notion of a taxpayer-funded east-west highway is not worth entertaining any longer as the state cannot afford to purchase the rights of way to cross private property, nor does it have the money to construct such a road, Vigue said. He has pitched the idea of a privately constructed and operated highway to a New York bank, which gave him "the thumbs up," Vigue said.

Before an attentive audience of 250 members of the local business community, Vigue delivered with authority his ideas in a speech titled "Why Not Maine?" The breakfast event was organized by the Bangor Region Chamber of Commerce and the Action Committee of 50, another Bangor business association.

The morning consisted of Vigue’s talk, the unveiling of Access Atlantica — a renewed effort to form a business alliance between Bangor and Saint John, New Brunswick — and a panel discussion on truck weight limits on Maine’s interstate.

In his speech, Vigue announced that Cianbro secured at midnight Wednesday its first client for the modular building structure assembly facility it plans to construct in Brewer. The new business will take over the former Eastern Fine Paper Co. mill site and will employ at least 500 people, Vigue said.

"We’re still not allowed to communicate who our first customer is," Vigue said.

Immediately after Vigue’s address, Miles Theeman, CEO of Affiliated Healthcare Systems of Bangor, formally introduced Access Atlantica with his Canadian co-chairwoman, Nancy Thorne. Theeman and Thorne are volunteers who have given a new name to the long-term effort to create an "economic trade corridor" between the sister cities of Bangor and Saint John.

"We want to revamp our tourism image and make it regional. We talk about one vacation, two nations, but we share so much else [with Saint John] in terms of our goals for economic development, energy, transportation, Maritimes issues," Theeman said.

Access Atlantica is part of a larger movement called Atlantica, which is backed by 127 chambers of commerce and boards of trade in Maine and four other New England states, upstate New York, southeast Quebec and the four Canadian Atlantic provinces. Atlantica’s goal is to encourage trade and economic growth in all industries in the region.

Now what would be needed is a four lane highway from Saint John south to connect up to the toll highway and this is where the Atlantic Gateway funds should go.

[Ottawa]

I don't think anybody said it is not a regional project. All the provinces must be involved, so maybe the NB government should take more of an interest in it and maybe Halifax should be an energy hub as well after all NS does have the gas resources.

1 - Then Charles Cirtwill should be much more careful about choosing his words.
Quote from Telegraph Journal, October 6th:

"New Brunswick is very much a secondary (area). That's the message that has to get out here,"

These kind of statements are harmful if you're trying to build a coalition to promote a 'regional' project.


2 - The energy hub is not about having natural gas off your shoreline. It is about providing long term, high volume, value added products to a burgeoning market. The gas is imported(not from Nova Scotia) on ships in a liquified state and regasified at the terminal before being put in the pipeline. It makes economic sense to have this product manufactured/located closest to the market where it will be consumed. In this case the ideal location would actually be in the US itself, but their regulatory agencies make that impossible economically. Halifax is 655 miles from Boston, Saint John is 400 miles. If you need to supply the most cost effective solution by having the closest location, hence the cheapest transportation/maintenance costs, Saint John is the clear choice. As for Halifax being the energy hub... I think you will have to agree with me that this is where Saint John has the advantage and I applaud the Irvings and the provincial government for jumping on this opportunity.

[Haliguy]

1 - Then Charles Cirtwill should be much more careful about choosing his words.
Quote from Telegraph Journal, October 6th:

"New Brunswick is very much a secondary (area). That's the message that has to get out here,"

These kind of statements are harmful if you're trying to build a coalition to promote a 'regional' project.


2 - The energy hub is not about having natural gas off your shoreline. It is about providing long term, high volume, value added products to a burgeoning market. The gas is imported(not from Nova Scotia) on ships in a liquified state and regasified at the terminal before being put in the pipeline. It makes economic sense to have this product manufactured/located closest to the market where it will be consumed. In this case the ideal location would actually be in the US itself, but their regulatory agencies make that impossible economically. Halifax is 655 miles from Boston, Saint John is 400 miles. If you need to supply the most cost effective solution by having the closest location, hence the cheapest transportation/maintenance costs, Saint John is the clear choice. As for Halifax being the energy hub... I think you will have to agree with me that this is where Saint John has the advantage and I applaud the Irvings and the provincial government for jumping on this opportunity.


Keltic Petro chemical will be building a 5 billion dollar facility which will include a LNG facility in Goldsboro NS where the Maritimes Northeast pipeline begins. Construction is starting this spring. There is are plans for a huge natural gas storage caverns in near Stewiacke NS. Deep Panuke is sceduled to begin construction any time now which will be NS third offshore project. I think Saint John will be and should be an energy hub. I do however have a bit of a problem with Saint John self proclaiming itself as the energy hub of Atlantic Canada.

[Ottawa]

The gateway is very important regional project. AIMS is very much aware of the fact the infrastructure upgrades from Halifax though Maine are needed, Imagine how much better Saint John would do if there was a road that cut through Maine directly to Montreal and Toronto. Although the "Gateway" itself will generate thousands of Jobs in Halifax, many thousands more throughout the region would be created in the spin-off.

Here is a proposal that is of GREAT interest to Saint John and the region as a whole

From the AIMS site


Now what would be needed is a four lane highway from Saint John south to connect up to the toll highway and this is where the Atlantic Gateway funds should go.
Agreed. I have driven from Coburn Gore through to St. Stephen many times. It is a twisty, turning two lane road for most of the way. Even so, it is more time efficient than taking the TCH through Quebec and northern NB. But I often have opted to go through Quebec just because it is so much easier to drive on smooth, straight, four lane highways(most of the way).
I am a big fan of the proposed east-west highway in Maine, but alas, we do rely on our American cousins to fix this situation. A toll road would be well worth it and would put Saint John(and everyone else) a few hours closer to Montreal.

[Ottawa]

Keltic Petro chemical will be building a 5 billion dollar facility which will include a LNG facility in Goldsboro NS where the Maritimes Northeast pipeline begins. Construction is starting this spring. There is are plans for a huge natural gas storage caverns in near Stewiacke NS. Deep Panuke is sceduled to begin construction any time now which will be NS third offshore project. I think Saint John will be and should be an energy hub. I do however have a bit of a problem with Saint John self proclaiming itself as the energy hub of Atlantic Canada.

Would you rather we just call it 'Calgary East'? :)

[Haliguy]

Would you rather we just call it 'Calgary East'? :)


lol...now that's a bit of a stretch of the imagination...lol

[someone123]

The whole "Atlantic Gateway" idea has more to do with general containerized cargo than LNG specifically. When it comes to being a gateway for these kinds of shipments, New Brunswick is pretty much guaranteed to remain a secondary area.

The AIMS is trying to sell the idea of Halifax as a gateway for shipments going to the East Coast of the US and the Midwest. Saint John is never going to be this kind of gateway because it has no advantages over New York or Montreal. It has comparable geography but with a much smaller local market.

The logic behind NB benefiting from the Atlantic Gateway is that there would be a lot more traffic passing through Moncton and Saint John, presumably leading to new opportunities for manufacturing, distribution, etc. NB is much better off being a conduit for goods for a market of tens of millions than as a gateway for a local market of about 750,000, which in practice is not even that likely since it's more efficient just to ship things from major ports.

[SJTOKO]

I do however have a bit of a problem with Saint John self proclaiming itself as the energy hub of Atlantic Canada.

Why? Atlantic Canada's only Nuclear Power plant ***expanding*** Canada's largest Oil Refinery *****A larger one on the way*** Canaport... Canaport LNG.... Coleson Cove Power plant.. Courtenay Bay Generating Station. Emera Pipeline.... Largest concentration of industry on the Atlantic coast north of New York City... Give Saint John the belt man.... come on...

[random11]

Why? Atlantic Canada's only Nuclear Power plant ***expanding*** Canada's largest Oil Refinery *****A larger one on the way*** Canaport... Canaport LNG.... Coleson Cove Power plant.. Courtenay Bay Generating Station. Emera Pipeline.... Largest concentration of industry on the Atlantic coast north of New York City... Give Saint John the belt man.... come on...

Agree with you on that one. I don't see Halifax competing in this area as of yet - certainly not anywhere near the projected growth Saint John is soon to experience in this industry. I do think however, that it is important to remember that what is good for Saint John and Halifax is also good for Atlantic Canada in general.

[skyscraper_1]

Agree with you on that one. I don't see Halifax competing in this area as of yet - certainly not anywhere near the projected growth Saint John is soon to experience in this industry. I do think however, that it is important to remember that what is good for Saint John and Halifax is also good for Atlantic Canada in general.Well said! :)

Halifax is more of an offshore energy production logistic centre. While Saint John generates/produces many forms of energy and exports them south. But as Someone123 indicated, that is not what Atlantic Gateway is about.

[Helladog]

My city's better than yours! :eviltongue: LOL!

At least we've replaced rivalry with Moncton for rivalry with Halifax!

At this rate, we'll be bickering with Montreal soon! ahh...NOT!

[michael_d40]

At least fighting with Halifax, and soon to be Montreal actually offers a valid argument. But Moncton.... thats just a sad sad place. They just dont compare :)

:banana:

Im sure that will stir up some controversy with HFXMTL and STU lol

[kwajo]

I think we should pick on cities more our own size, like St. John's or Portland, Maine. I'm pretty sure we can take both of those down. :P

[michael_d40]

I think we should pick on cities more our own size, like St. John's or Portland, Maine. I'm pretty sure we can take both of those down. :P


haha so true !

[SJTOKO]

I want Granite curbs.....:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[SJTOKO]

Granite!!!

[Ottawa]

I guess there's not a lot going on in Halifax these days. They have to come visit the Saint John page to find some stimulating ideas...:cool:

[GUB]

Keltic Petro chemical will be building a 5 billion dollar facility which will include a LNG facility in Goldsboro NS where the Maritimes Northeast pipeline begins. Construction is starting this spring. There is are plans for a huge natural gas storage caverns in near Stewiacke NS. Deep Panuke is sceduled to begin construction any time now which will be NS third offshore project. I think Saint John will be and should be an energy hub. I do however have a bit of a problem with Saint John self proclaiming itself as the energy hub of Atlantic Canada.


While it is fine and dandy that NS has numerous energy related projects in line, as it stands SJ IS the hub for energy in Atlantic Canada. Why you have a problem with this is a bit baffling.

[Seely32]

Has anyone seen what they have done to the building on the corner of princess and charlotte, absolutly disgusting I dont know how the owner of the building would let that happen or suggest it. They put up green metal siding over brick and then but on faux light stone stiles on the bottom of the front. It looks like something you would put on a bathroom in the garage because your friends have some extra tiles laying around.

If you havent seen it yet and you get the chance take a look.......Terrible.

[PostModernPrometheus]

We all have our biases, of course, but we should keep in mind that whats good for the region is good us all........we should also encourage and capitalize on the strengths that various parts of the region have. Yes, NS has more offshore resources than NB; that being said, the natural place to process or transport those resources to/through would be NB as opposed to investing billions of dollars into refining operations in NS. As for some of the posts questioning the Saint-John-as-an-energy-hub idea; frankly, the reality is that Saint John is rapidly positioning itself as the hub in our region. There is nowhere else in our region that has the energy project scale/diversity/potential (nuclear, lng terminal, pipeline, a very distinct possibility of harnessing tidal energy/wind energy, the coleson cove generating station, etc, etc, etc) as the Saint John region.


For those who are arguing that perhaps Halifax should also be developed as a co-energy hub, then by the same logic, Saint John's port should perhaps be massively expanded to allow it to handle more cargo tonnage on the scale of Halifax's . . . . which is of course ridiculous! I think that Saint John's port should be used to it's fullest capacity, with upgrades to rail/highway systems....but in terms of tonnage, Saint John's strength lies in it's ability to move liquid (i.e., petroleum) product, and perhaps the rapidly growing cruise ship business which is on par next year with Halifax's numbers. Moncton is well positioned to benefit / add / capitalize not only on projects occuring east or west of it, but on it's own local projects . . . .the concept of an "inland port" i think is a good one.

We accomplish more working together than infighting and bickering.


:cheers:

[PostModernPrometheus]

Has anyone seen what they have done to the building on the corner of princess and charlotte, absolutly disgusting I dont know how the owner of the building would let that happen or suggest it. They put up green metal siding over brick and then but on faux light stone stiles on the bottom of the front. It looks like something you would put on a bathroom in the garage because your friends have some extra tiles laying around.

If you havent seen it yet and you get the chance take a look.......Terrible.


lol...Hey Seely32 ----> That's my house you're talking about!!! :haha:

j/k....i agree - terrible eyesore.....

[mmmatt]

At least fighting with Halifax, and soon to be Montreal actually offers a valid argument. But Moncton.... thats just a sad sad place. They just dont compare :)

:banana:

Im sure that will stir up some controversy with HFXMTL and STU lol

meh, I love Moncton, even if it is a sad sad place, its still home :)

[Haliguy]

While it is fine and dandy that NS has numerous energy related projects in line, as it stands SJ IS the hub for energy in Atlantic Canada. Why you have a problem with this is a bit baffling.


Actually there's lots going on in Halifax. I do like to see whats going in other cities though. I'm not against Saint John being an energy hub by any means, but its not the only energy hub on the east coast, after all Halifax does belong to the World Energy Cities.

[homebody]

Does anybody know if there is more developement going in next to the new Best Western. It looks like they are waisting no time putting what looks to be a road in behind Ritchies Discount in the field.

[Helladog]

Has anyone seen what they have done to the building on the corner of princess and charlotte, absolutly disgusting I dont know how the owner of the building would let that happen or suggest it. They put up green metal siding over brick and then but on faux light stone stiles on the bottom of the front. It looks like something you would put on a bathroom in the garage because your friends have some extra tiles laying around.

If you havent seen it yet and you get the chance take a look.......Terrible.

Yeah...at first, i thought it was real stone which looked okay from a distance, but after walking by, I had the same feeling that I was walking through somebody's shower stall...

Speaking of shower stall, remember that building on Prince William near Mexi's that did have shower tile? :haha: The 1 inch square ceramic type...:yuck:

I'm surprised nobody's tried the roofing shingle instead of using siding trick yet on some of these buildings!

[kwajo]

Seeing this discussion of Halifax being a co-energy hun reminds me that I rather like this new forum design where we've shuffled the Haligonians into special "camps" where they can talk amongst themselves and leave the rest of us to have productive conversations about Atlantic Canada.

Maybe we should establish a similar division in real life by building a large wall around HRM and controlling how many people enter and exit, and maybe reduce the number of children they are allowed to have so that they can be self-sustaining yet not grow outside the physical constraints of their circa-1749 ghetto.

[Seely32]

Mall gets 68th tenant

SAINT JOHN - Brunswick Square officially welcomed its 68th tenant on Tuesday with the grand opening of Print Three document centre.

Print Three is located on Level III of the shopping centre and its opening follows closely on the heels of the arrival of Pseudio and Teddy Bear Makers.

"I think it's an indication of the overall marketplace," said Sue Baxter, the regional leasing manager for Fortis Properties in New Brunswick. Fortis owns and manages Brunswick Square, which opened Levels I and II in 1977 and Level III in 1987.

While Baxter said it has been an exceptionally positive year, there is still room for four to six more stores, depending on size and specialty.

[Haliguy]

Seeing this discussion of Halifax being a co-energy hun reminds me that I rather like this new forum design where we've shuffled the Haligonians into special "camps" where they can talk amongst themselves and leave the rest of us to have productive conversations about Atlantic Canada.

Maybe we should establish a similar division in real life by building a large wall around HRM and controlling how many people enter and exit, and maybe reduce the number of children they are allowed to have so that they can be self-sustaining yet not grow outside the physical constraints of their circa-1749 ghetto.


AHH you're just jealous because we have our own forum. Productive dicussion what a joke.. from you?....that funny. It's kind of funny how you complain about being considered secondary in the Atlantic gateway but when I mention Halifax being a energy hub as well you don't like it even though Halifax is a memeber of the Worlds Enegry cities and Saint John is not.

[michael_d40]

Cant we all just come to a simple consesus, that we prefer SJ over Hfx and you prefer hfx over SJ.

Even though sj is clearly on its way to taking over the world
So either put up, or shut up
:worship:

[Tone]

Hi guys! But how can somebody remotely sane can even compare SJ with Halifax?

[Seely32]

We can compare easily on growth of the energy sector, the size of the city means nothing on how much energy a city or area can provide. The fact we feel slighted is not something we can just put aside and watch us get rolled over. Just because halifax has port advantages doesnt mean we should get left behind why we sit back for another 50 years and let another city in our region take what we can produce without a fight. Halifax is only larger in population, the may have a larger port, doesnt mean with the right investments we cant do the same as them in many aspects.

[Haliguy]

We can compare easily on growth of the energy sector, the size of the city means nothing on how much energy a city or area can provide. The fact we feel slighted is not something we can just put aside and watch us get rolled over. Just because halifax has port advantages doesnt mean we should get left behind why we sit back for another 50 years and let another city in our region take what we can produce without a fight. Halifax is only larger in population, the may have a larger port, doesnt mean with the right investments we cant do the same as them in many aspects.

I know Saint John is turning around after years of decline and thats great, but I think its going to you're guys head a bit.

I think you have to accept that the port of Halifax and the port of Saint John are of two different ranks. It makes sense for the the focal point of the Atlantic Gateway to be Halifax. It has the infra structure, deep water, rail links and is closer the trans Atlantic shipping lanes. Just like you say it makes sense for energy to be produced in Saint John. Also nobody is saying that Saint John can and will not be included in the Atlantic Gateway concept or funding.

I am not against Saint John at all just discussing facts thats all.

[Wishblade]

It may sound like general boosterism when comparing Halifax with Saint John, but really its just the true fact. all Saint John has over Halifax is energy. As for everything else, its kind of a no brainer. sorry :shrug:

[PostModernPrometheus]

Folks.....let's get a little perspective here, shall we? We're all adults here....perhaps we can all act like it and stick with the issues & opinions instead of personal attacks/mudslinging? It's not particularly productive, and reflects rather negatively on those engaging in it, and the forum as a whole.


Just a thought... :tup:

[PostModernPrometheus]

It may sound like general boosterism when comparing Halifax with Saint John, but really its just the true fact. all Saint John has over Halifax is energy. As for everything else, its kind of a no brainer. sorry :shrug:


I suppose it all depends a great deal on what parameters one is comparing; I've lived in both cities (though much longer in the Saint John region). By virtue of it's size vis a vis Saint John, yes - Halifax does have a number of advantages (anything from the diversity of educational facilities / institutions to a broader array of cultural events, and everything in between).

However, with it's size comes what some might consider disadvantages...cost for example being one of them; I'm at the stage of building a new home, and I can tell you - to have private water frontage with a sandy beach and a million dollar view that is a 5-10 min. rush hour drive from the city core is still (relatively) affordable in the SJ area, but nearly unheard of in Halifax, or if it is available, it would command an obscene price.....Now, some people might say "who cares??", but again - it really depends on what parameters are important to the eye of the beholder.

cheers.

[random11]

Has anyone seen what they have done to the building on the corner of princess and charlotte, absolutly disgusting I dont know how the owner of the building would let that happen or suggest it. They put up green metal siding over brick and then but on faux light stone stiles on the bottom of the front. It looks like something you would put on a bathroom in the garage because your friends have some extra tiles laying around.

If you havent seen it yet and you get the chance take a look.......Terrible.

I live on Germain near Horsefield and I see the building you are referring to just about daily. My word would be "Tacky".

[random11]

I know Saint John is turning around after years of decline and thats great, but I think its going to you're guys head a bit.

I think you have to accept that the port of Halifax and the port of Saint John are of two different ranks. It makes sense for the the focal point of the Atlantic Gateway to be Halifax. It has the infra structure, deep water, rail links and is closer the trans Atlantic shipping lanes. Just like you say it makes sense for energy to be produced in Saint John. Also nobody is saying that Saint John can and will not be included in the Atlantic Gateway concept or funding.

I am not against Saint John at all just discussing facts thats all.

I understand your point(s). As for facts however, Saint John very much has a deep water port and can accomdate the largest of vessels. As for rail links, the distance to the hot-in-demand East North America market is much closer from Saint John than Halifax. Our infra structure will include - among other things - a full twinning of the Trans Canada from Saint John to St. Stephen which will be open soon. In addition, the state of Maine and New Brunswick will soon enter into an agreement to construct a new border crossing bridge to accomadate what has now become one of the busiest border crossings in the country. Time = money and there is little arguement that distance can and very will likely, be the final decision. Companies & suppliers want their goods and products to market in the quickest, most time efficient manner possible. Maybe I'm crazy on this one, but I think we have an edge.

[GUB]

I suppose it all depends a great deal on what parameters one is comparing; I've lived in both cities (though much longer in the Saint John region). By virtue of it's size vis a vis Saint John, yes - Halifax does have a number of advantages (anything from the diversity of educational facilities / institutions to a broader array of cultural events, and everything in between).

However, with it's size comes what some might consider disadvantages...cost for example being one of them; I'm at the stage of building a new home, and I can tell you - to have private water frontage with a sandy beach and a million dollar view that is a 5-10 min. rush hour drive from the city core is still (relatively) affordable in the SJ area, but nearly unheard of in Halifax, or if it is available, it would command an obscene price.....Now, some people might say "who cares??", but again - it really depends on what parameters are important to the eye of the beholder.

cheers.

Well said.
Since we're on the topic of Hal. & SJ--From what I understand, back in the 50's the 2 cities were very similar populations & cities function wise. Then in the 60's or 70's era the Federal gov't gave SJ the ol' screw job by opening up the St. Lawrence Seaway-- making it ice free thus allowing cargo that normally passed through SJ to go into the port of Montreal instead. SJ then began an unfortunate steady decline, that only recently seems to be changing for the better.
I live in both cities depending on time of year & must say SJ is a really cool city with a ton of history & potential, and Halifax is great as well--never boring. I'm just glad SJ is looking up for the first time in decades!:cheers:

[Ottawa]

Well said.
Since we're on the topic of Hal. & SJ--From what I understand, back in the 50's the 2 cities were very similar populations & cities function wise. Then in the 60's or 70's era the Federal gov't gave SJ the ol' screw job by opening up the St. Lawrence Seaway-- making it ice free thus allowing cargo that normally passed through SJ to go into the port of Montreal instead. SJ then began an unfortunate steady decline, that only recently seems to be changing for the better.
I live in both cities depending on time of year & must say SJ is a really cool city with a ton of history & potential, and Halifax is great as well--never boring. I'm just glad SJ is looking up for the first time in decades!:cheers:

History is what it is. The future is yet to be written. I have personally seen the prejudice against Saint John for a long, long time so I don't feel bad at all about struttin' some stuff on our own page. I don't think it should be such a problem with the HRM bunch whatever we want to call ourself. Maybe they are feeling a little insecure about losing their predominant position in the region. In that case - grow up! If you want to slam Saint John, do it in your own page please, not in my face with uniformed opinions and lack of facts. Personally, I wouldn't go to the HRM website and slam their city. I have never gone into their website and slammed Halifax. This is the Saint John page and I don't intend to sit in a corner and take that kind of crap!

People are mixing up the energy hub idea with getting natural gas out of the ocean. It is a lot more than just LNG or natural gas. The energy hub message is a selling point to the natural market in the NE US. Saint John has a history of manufacturing and industry and is the headquarters for the largest locally owned oil and gas company in the region. It is home to Canada's largest refinery. This refinery is responsible for selling more than twice as much refined gasoline to the US than all other refineries in Canada combined - and yes that includes Alberta! This is a large value added product that comes out of this city. Saint John produces a large percentage of the electricity produced in New Brunswick. Saint John has the only nuclear power plant in the Atlantic provinces. This is why AECL has set up an office here and why we are hopeful we can retain some of the skills learned here and become a training centre for future nuclear refits. Saint John is a whole lot closer by land (the major travel route) to major US markets than any other city in the maritimes.

Saint John has been an energy producer for decades. Maybe NB should do for NS gas what Quebec did for Labrador hydro. I really don't think that's the way to go, but I am getting a little frustrated with the thinking process going on with some people(you know who I mean).

Saint John has a lot going for it without taking anything away from other areas. So, if you think you've got a real beef, try to change your own area and quit trying to put others down.

[kwajo]

I understand your point(s). As for facts however, Saint John very much has a deep water port and can accomdate the largest of vessels.
This is true, people often forget that the SJ Harbour isn't just the area between Uptown and the West Side (which is technically the mouth of the Saint John River, not SJ Harbour), but rather the whole expanse of water out past Partridge Island. Imagine drawing a rough line from Coleson Cove to Cape Spencer, and that's the harbour - quite a lot of deep water out there. For example, Canaport and Canaport LNG are technically within Saint John Harbour, not outside of it as many people think.

[kwajo]

Oh and I appologize if people took my comment badly in the last page. I didn't mean to stir up trouble, I thought it was clear that I was joking/satirising the situation.
I've lived in Halifax, and it's a great place, I just don't like Saint John - and New Brunswick - being marginalized when it doesn't deserve to be. Sometimes we get treated as the third world by Halifax, when we're all Maritimers who should be working together to better ourselves.

[Haliguy]

Oh and I appologize if people took my comment badly in the last page. I didn't mean to stir up trouble, I thought it was clear that I was joking/satirising the situation.
I've lived in Halifax, and it's a great place, I just don't like Saint John - and New Brunswick - being marginalized when it doesn't deserve to be. Sometimes we get treated as the third world by Halifax, when we're all Maritimers who should be working together to better ourselves.

Hey man, I agree.... lets work together. If we work together on the strengths of all our cities we can become a Have region.

:cheers:

[skyscraper_1]

Oh and I appologize if people took my comment badly in the last page. I didn't mean to stir up trouble, I thought it was clear that I was joking/satirising the situation.
I've lived in Halifax, and it's a great place, I just don't like Saint John - and New Brunswick - being marginalized when it doesn't deserve to be. Sometimes we get treated as the third world by Halifax, when we're all Maritimers who should be working together to better ourselves.
I don't think it is a matter of Saint John or New Brunswick being marginalized, its a matter of what place has the best ability to get the goods to market from Asia and Europe to the midwest of America. The east coast of Nova Scotia has that capability that Saint John doesn't have. It doesn't mean the city is out of luck, it just means that it will have to specialize on something else. Just being on the transportation corridor is a huge opportunity.

I tend to agree with Saint Johner's when it comes to energy. They have us beat big time and that is fine since they have a clear competitive advantage in that department.

[Haliguy]

I understand your point(s). As for facts however, Saint John very much has a deep water port and can accomdate the largest of vessels. As for rail links, the distance to the hot-in-demand East North America market is much closer from Saint John than Halifax. Our infra structure will include - among other things - a full twinning of the Trans Canada from Saint John to St. Stephen which will be open soon. In addition, the state of Maine and New Brunswick will soon enter into an agreement to construct a new border crossing bridge to accomadate what has now become one of the busiest border crossings in the country. Time = money and there is little arguement that distance can and very will likely, be the final decision. Companies & suppliers want their goods and products to market in the quickest, most time efficient manner possible. Maybe I'm crazy on this one, but I think we have an edge.

Agreed, But when I talk about infra structure I am talking about things like Post Panamax cranes.. Halifax has several and can handle Post Panamax ships currently. as well as container handling facitlites. Saint John doesn't have this capability as it stands now and I'm not sure they would have a lot of room for these large ships especially several at time where Halifax would be able to accommodate this due to the size of it's harbour. Anyway thats it, both our cities have our strengths lets work with them.

[random11]

. Anyway thats it, both our cities have our strengths lets work with them.[/QUOTE]


I do agree with that comment. As I mentioned a few days ago, this dialogue should not be about "us vs.them" or vice-versa rather, it should be about what we can accomplish together for the success of our 'region' in general. :cheers:

[SJTOKO]

NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ANOTHER BOX uptown and it's call the Cruise Welcome Center....... That's it, this was one project I was really looking forward too and it's a giant pile of fucking garbage..... I'm done promoting Saint John,, forget it,, i'm out...

[kwajo]

NOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


ANOTHER BOX uptown and it's call the Cruise Welcome Center....... That's it, this was one project I was really looking forward too and it's a giant pile of fucking garbage..... I'm done promoting Saint John,, forget it,, i'm out...
Any photos/renderings? I too have really been looking forward to this project, but I'm out of town and don't have the same access as you guys have.

If what you say is true, that is very sad that they've wasted such an opportunity and location, but it is Saint John, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[SJTOKO]

Any photos/renderings? I too have really been looking forward to this project, but I'm out of town and don't have the same access as you guys have.

If what you say is true, that is very sad that they've wasted such an opportunity and location, but it is Saint John, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.


The rendering is in today's paper, you can look it up online if you want.... terrible just terrible...

[kwajo]

Ahh I see it now, thanks for the heads-up.
http://i1.tinypic.com/5zmmbmb.jpg

That's better than you had me thinking. When you said 'box' I thought you meant like those eyesores they built on the General Hospital site :yuck:

Still disappointing though, you're right about that.

[michael_d40]

Port issuing tender call for terminal
Development Agency also looking for proposals to develop nearby Pugsley Park

Sandra Davis
Telegraph-Journal
Published Thursday November 1st, 2007
Appeared on page C1

SAINT JOHN - A call for tenders to build the city's new $8-million cruise ship terminal is going out "immediately."

At the same time, there is a request going out for proposals to develop Pugsley Park, the area between the Coast Guard site and the cruise terminal.

The decision to call for tenders and seek proposals was made during Tuesday's meeting of the board of directors of the Saint John Port Authority, says board chairman Stephen Campbell.

"We're anxious to see what we get back," said Campbell. "I'm delighted to go forward. It'll be well broadcast because we want as much response as we can get."

The 16,000-square-foot cruise terminal, to be completed next summer, will stand on the waterfront at Pugsley terminal, surrounded by walkways and green spaces for cruise ship passengers and citizens to enjoy. Its main entrance will be at the foot of Duke Street.

Pugsley Park, which now consists of a parking lot on Water Street, will include trees and benches snaking their way south along the water and eventually private development such as restaurants, coffee shops and waterside shopping - they're all possibilities depending on what the call to proposals turns up.

A clock tower will stand at the entrance to Pugsley Park, at the foot of Princess Street and the area will become the permanent home of some much-loved sculptures by the late John Hooper.

"We know that there are at least three significant developers, if not more, that are anxiously awaiting that request for proposals," said Campbell.

"I'm delighted to go forward with those."

Last month, the three levels of government announced an investment of $3.5 million in waterfront development for design, construction and landscaping of pedestrian areas around the new terminal.

Directly across from City Hall, in what is now a bus turnaround area, the plans call for a larger, more developed St. Andrews Park, which will also be the new location of Barbour's General Store as well as the Little Red Schoolhouse.

At the other end of Water Street, by the Three Sisters lamp, will be a larger and more developed Three Sisters Park.

The whole area will be called The Bay of Fundy Cruise Welcome Centre and is expected to directly benefit rural communities throughout Southern New Brunswick by injecting more than $17 million in revenue over the next five year

[michael_d40]

Ahh I see it now, thanks for the heads-up.
http://i1.tinypic.com/5zmmbmb.jpg

That's better than you had me thinking. When you said 'box' I thought you meant like those eyesores they built on the General Hospital site :yuck:

Still disappointing though, you're right about that.

In all honesty its not THAT bad. It just looks like something you would see in Moncton or Fredericton.
Time will tell how it all pans out I guess

[kwajo]

In all honesty its not THAT bad. It just looks like something you would see in Moncton or Fredericton.

lol ouch.


You're right, it's not horrible, and I think it will look better in its real setting, not in a rendering that doesn't show the surrounding buildings or even Harbour Passage, let alone the new Pugsley Park. That being said, the building needs not only a more Saint John flair, but also needs to incorporate architectural features of a harbour-side building, not a generic in-land piece of design.

At least it's better than a big tent...

[Seely32]

I dont mind brick buidings it should fit in with uptown but the design isn't something to be desired for. I was hoping for more glass to be honest some of previous rendering showed up that way. It looks like the cruise ship passengers are coming into ellis ilsand more with this building. This would be a creat office building uptown but not a new age welcome center.

[michael_d40]

lol ouch.


You're right, it's not horrible, and I think it will look better in its real setting, not in a rendering that doesn't show the surrounding buildings or even Harbour Passage, let alone the new Pugsley Park. That being said, the building needs not only a more Saint John flair, but also needs to incorporate architectural features of a harbour-side building, not a generic in-land piece of design.

At least it's better than a big tent...


haha yeah, anything is better than the big tent, and yes, I think it will look fine once all the surroundings are finished as well. I find it odd that they didnt show us the whole overall conception of the area,

[Helladog]

I was disappointed to se it was so plain too, but at this point, I'm happy to see something on the agenda being started.

For 8 million bucks tho? I'd think 8 million could do more...

[PostModernPrometheus]

I'd agree with Helladog.....the plan is a little bit of a letdown, BUT.....its much better than what is currently there....AND....it is quite difficult to conceptualize this building without the surrounding park/etc...

[random11]

Personally, I find the latest rendering to be cheesy-supremo. However, I am not totally convinced that this is the final rendering. It has extreme limits in terms of feel and substance and let's face it, 8 million for a modern day, 16,ooo sq ft building on the downtown waterfront is not a serious amount of money in today's market. Perhaps it's just me hoping that they went cheap on the rendering in an effort to save money, lol! I just don't think this is the final deal - The city is all too well aware of what happened when they permitted that God awful "Drake" building to be built on the former General Hospital site land and I am terribly optimistic that they will under no circumstances allow such an eye-sore to shape our landscape again. For me, the jury is out on this one gang: I need to see more. I am confident we will see more. This is a major deal on a major piece of waterfront and I just don't think we have seen the final picture. I think the rendering in the newspaper was essentially "rushed" out to provide an 'idea' of what it might be. *sigh* - here's me keeping my fingers crossed. :shrug:

[Smevo]

I can't remember who it was, but someone was asking about a picture of a building's heating plant. I was just sifting through my photos preparing to post my thread and found this...is it the one you asked for...whoever asked for it?

http://www.pbase.com/smevo/image/85475288.jpg

Anyway, as for the other stuff, we work better as a region (I've been saying that since I joined about 5 years ago...when it was just me and one other forumer outside of Halifax) and that kind of bickering shouldn't ever show up in development threads, because, left unchecked, that bickering gets threads locked and nobody wants to see a development thread locked for that reason.

I'd have to say I'm disappointed with the Cruise ship terminal as well, looks like the heritage groups dictated what it looked like (short, brick, and not even a hint of a glass curtain). I wish heritage groups could start seeing how well true modern and true historic blend together (and how crappy faux historic is). As long as the historic buildings are kept up, and aren't torn down or adversely affected by the new development, there's nothing wrong with a modern design going in next door. Anyway, that's my two cents. I'll be (kind of) more active again...I've got a lot to catch up on in the Sydney thread which I can hopefully start this weekend. Good to see a number of new forumers since my last posting on this thread...like I said, five years ago it was me, a forumer named Kelvin, and five or six from Halifax. :jester: :cheers:

[PostModernPrometheus]

Hmmm......what do you guys think of this? I'm not a fan of either casinos or racinos - whats the overall consensus?




Details on Saint John racino expected Friday
Last Updated: Friday, November 2, 2007 | 9:29 AM AT
CBC News
Plans for a new gaming and entertainment centre in Saint John are set to be unveiled Friday, even though the New Brunswick government has yet to present its policy on racetrack casinos.

Racino venues — which combine harness racing and video lottery terminals — are part of a pending provincial policy on gaming.

The Exhibition Association of Saint John has set a news conference for 11 a.m. Friday for a centre at the Exhibition Park Raceway.

Willard Jenkins, the president of the association's board of directors, is set to show renderings of a restaurant, an agriculture and sports dome and a soccer field, as well as space that can be converted to a concert venue.

Saint John Mayor Norm McFarlane is also expected to express support for the project from the city.

[PostModernPrometheus]

http://www.pbase.com/smevo/image/85475288.jpg



Anyway, as for the other stuff, we work better as a region (I've been saying that since I joined about 5 years ago...when it was just me and one other forumer outside of Halifax) and that kind of bickering shouldn't ever show up in development threads, because, left unchecked, that bickering gets threads locked and nobody wants to see a development thread locked for that reason.



That old building is such an eyesore....and it's in such a prime spot....does anyone know the status on this building (There used to be a sjwaterfront.com sign on it and/or a for sale sign, but i think it's since come down).....if i recall, there are plans for a string of townhouses in this area - has that developer (?Rocca) purchased this building in as a prelude to that project?? :shrug:



Totally agree on the bickering point :tup:

[PostModernPrometheus]

Hey man, I agree.... lets work together. If we work together on the strengths of all our cities we can become a Have region.

:cheers:




*Group Maritime Hug*


:cheers:

[Helladog]

Hmmm......what do you guys think of this? I'm not a fan of either casinos or racinos - whats the overall consensus?




Details on Saint John racino expected Friday
Last Updated: Friday, November 2, 2007 | 9:29 AM AT
CBC News
Plans for a new gaming and entertainment centre in Saint John are set to be unveiled Friday, even though the New Brunswick government has yet to present its policy on racetrack casinos.

Racino venues — which combine harness racing and video lottery terminals — are part of a pending provincial policy on gaming.

The Exhibition Association of Saint John has set a news conference for 11 a.m. Friday for a centre at the Exhibition Park Raceway.

Willard Jenkins, the president of the association's board of directors, is set to show renderings of a restaurant, an agriculture and sports dome and a soccer field, as well as space that can be converted to a concert venue.

Saint John Mayor Norm McFarlane is also expected to express support for the project from the city.

I'd rather see locals spend their time/money in areas that'll do some good; with any luck a racino will bring tourists. I'm not totally for it, but with competition with Moncton for development, we shouldn't be caught second guessing for fear they'll get it instead.

If it gets done, I hope it has a classy casino feel to it with tables as well as slots.

As for the cruise ship terminal, I also don't think it is a final drawing; it's just an artists conception. It needs something more to make it unique. I don't think it fits well with the concept they were going with for the vision thingy with blue arches and all.

[Seely32]

Down with the racino, If you have been to bars in saint john we already have a bit of a gambling problem thank you vlt's. Take that money and try and improve our waterfront. At one point they wanted to put it uptown which was god awful, I find that casinos are just cheap ways to get people into their city and if its not kept with strict standards and built nice we could see the wrong type of crowd coming here.

I am also keepingmy fingers crossed that the rendering was completely conceptual and does not speak anything of the suspected project.(welcome centre)

Anyone have any ideas when the skatepark is supposed to start.

Just one more thing aren't they suppose to raze the Y this month I hope its not delayed.

[Helladog]

http://www.country94.ca/FCKeditorWave/UserFiles/chsj/Image/EPR.jpg

[kwajo]

http://www.country94.ca/FCKeditorWave/UserFiles/chsj/Image/EPR.jpg
That actually doesn't look too bad (a hundred times better than that stupid concept of a racino on the Lantic sugar site). I'd support it, but I want $0 dollars from taxpayers to go into it. After all the time we spent trying to get money for Harbour Cleanup, and numerous other truly-needed projects, I don't want to see a bunch of horse owners get big bucks to support their hobby.

[Seely32]

http://www.country94.ca/FCKeditorWave/UserFiles/chsj/Image/EPR.jpg

Kids playing hockey and people betting on horses and playing slots???

anyone see a contradiction here.

[Seely32]

City interested in buying synagogue

Sandra Davis
Telegraph-Journal
Published Friday November 2nd, 2007
Appeared on page C3
SAINT JOHN - The city has offered to purchase the Shaarei Zedek synagogue on Carleton Street, along with the building that houses its museum and community centre, which are just around the corner on Wellington Row.

"The board of the congregation is considering its response," says congregation president Norman Hamburg. "We want to do it properly and with good information, not just pulling numbers out of the air. We're doing due diligence."

The offer has not yet been presented to the synagogue's full congregation, he said.

Calls to city staff were not returned Thursday, but widespread speculation is that the property is being considered for a parking garage to accommodate the $60- to $70-million police-justice complex that will be located north of Union Street in the area near Vito's and the Saint John Arts Centre.

A study by a transportation consulting group completed 18 months ago told the city it will need roughly 1,300 to 1,700 new parking spaces to accommodate upcoming projects.

Mayor Norm McFarlane, however, said the city has been inquiring about property in that area for the past two years and that the intention is not simply to build a parking garage on the block where the synagogue sits.

"It's a huge development, not just a parking garage. People are out there looking at that area," he said. "I'm assuming they're talking to everybody in that general area where the development is going to go."

Hamburg has no knowledge of any other specific groups or organizations located on the block that have been approached to sell, "but we're kind of aware that it's not just us," he said. The "block" in question incorporates Carleton, Union and Peel streets, along with Wellington Row on the east.

Others on the block, though, confirm they have also been approached to sell their buildings, although many don't know who the interested party is.

In fact, it seems that there may be more than one party interested in buying up that block.

Loella McNutt, who lives on Union Street, was approached by a lawyer who made both she and her son, who lives next door, an offer to buy their properties.

She said she was not told who the lawyer, who visited her about a month ago, was representing.

"They didn't offer what we think it's worth," said McNutt.

Chris Hicks, who owns MC Xtronics on Union, says he's been approached, but by a real estate agent offering a "low" price for the property, while Sheldon Xiao confirms she was asked to sell her building at 119 Union but, while refusing to divulge who the interested party is, she says it's definitely not the city.

Others speak of "options to buy" being executed as word spreads of the city's interest in obtaining the block to erect a parking garage.

Meanwhile, Hamburg says there's a lot to consider before the congregation makes a decision to sell its synagogue. The building was listed for sale about four years ago, but the city is also interested in the community centre and museum, says Hamburg.

"There's a lot to consider," he said. "I have no idea what would happen to the museum. There's no alternative for either place until we know what we have to work with.

"It's been our home for 90 years now.

"It's not something we just throw away.

"We'll see if we can make it all work to the benefit of everybody," said Hamburg.

The construction of the police headquarters is slated to begin in the spring of 2008, while the provincially built justice building is on a similar timetable.

The $15- to $20-million police headquarters will help a force stuck in an inadequate City Hall, and the $28- to $30-million justice facility will consolidate and improve upon three aging court buildings spread throughout the city.

[Helladog]

WTF are they thinking?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Obsceneeyedog/limestone.jpg
Photo: Telegraph Journal

[Wishblade]

Kids playing hockey and people betting on horses and playing slots???

anyone see a contradiction here.

Who said they were kids? lol

[PostModernPrometheus]

Hmmmmmm......if that pile of crap is going to be sitting on Long Wharf over the winter, we *should* get creative with it --> perhaps the City or Port could rig a T-bar, or even a few old escaltors, charge $10 a head and turn it into the first limerock-based ski hill by the sea...

Be afraid Sugarloaf.....be very afraid......:jester:

[michael_d40]

LETS GET IT DONE ! :notacrook:

‘EPR’s’ game plan
Development: Proposal includes race track, soccer pitches, hockey rinks, all rolled into one complex

SANDRA DAVIS
TELEGRAPH-JOURNAL
Published Saturday November 3rd, 2007
Appeared on page b1

SAINT JOHN - A local group laid out a plan on Friday morning that will change the face of recreation for this generation.

That is, if the province buys into it.

The Exhibition Association wants to help build the city’s sports multiplex as part of a $20-million entertainment and sporting venue that would include a racino in combination with a two-plex ice surface, two indoor artificial-turf soccer fields, an upgraded track and grandstand, a firstclass restaurant, a combination agri-sports dome, indoor golf and walking track.

A racino is a combination race track and casino with slot machines and table games like blackjack, poker and roulette.

Bob Manning, the man in charge of a subcommittee looking to build the sportsplex, characterizes the exhibition association’s idea as“brilliant.”

“They’ve expanded a little bit to say, ‘we’ll have not only indoor soccer, but space that could be converted into an [exhibition facility] for trade shows, cattle shows, or horse shows,’ which I think is wonderful for this community,”said Manning.

“What the EPR (Exhibition Park Raceway) has done, is come forward to say ‘we’ve got a site, we’re willing to give you the land plus some financial contribution,” said Manning.

“They haven’t defined how much, but when I met with them they talked about how they would like to be partners with the city to move this forward,” said Manning.

The proposed development would do much to make Saint John a drive-in destination, rather than a drive-through city, adding to attractions like Horizon Management’s East Point Shopping development at Retail and Fashion drives, two new hotels, movie theatres and a strip of restaurants.

“We’ve always said the best location for something of this nature is on the East Side of Saint John,”said Manning.

“It fulfills an awful lot of need by putting it in the East.”

Manning first met with the exhibition association two weeks ago, at their request.

The group is the first in the province to go public with a gaming proposal; proponents are still awaiting the release of the province’s much anticipated gaming policy, which is expected to be announced within weeks. It had been slated for release in June, but was delayed.

“We recognize that the status quo is not an option,”Premier Shawn Graham told a Telegraph-Journal editorial board meeting last spring.

“We recognize that there has to be a social responsibility of government, as well, in putting in programs for addiction services as we modernize our gaming strategy,” he said at the time.

The province’s revised gaming policy is expected to outline the parameters under which gaming facilities would be able to operate in the province.

Once the policy is announced, it’s expected a call for proposals will be made with government deciding which ones to accept.

If the exhibition association’s proposal for a racino is denied, it will be the end of harness racing in Saint John, says Blair MacDonald, the exhibition association’s general manager.

But,he said,that doesn’t mean the sports multiplex is down the drain.

“It doesn’t mean everything goes,” says MacDonald.“The new exhibition building will be built anyway and we’ll have indoor soccer.”

It might however, affect the contribution the association could make towards a two-plex rink because construction funds would come from the racetrack, he said.

“We’re basically saying, ‘we have the land we can contribute and we have some financial resources to contribute.’“I think there’s a wish from the private sector to have these types of facilities, it ties into retailing and everything else that’s in the area,”said MacDonald.

The Exhibition Association plans to partner with a Quebec firm called Attractions Hippiques to run the racino, which operates all four race tracks in that province.

The association is looking for no government money for that venture.

“Our partner is prepared to raise the capital for that,”said MacDonald.

Attractions Hippiques vice-president Gerard Landry, who was in Saint John for the announcement, told the crowd his mission is to “put harness racing back on track. Exhibition Park has a nice piece of land and they’re well placed inside a nice big city. They need investors. They don’t want to take government money and this is our business.”

The half-mile track at Exhibition Park has been home to harness racing for more than 50 years.

“The exhibition association sees this as an opportunity to revitalize the state of the harness-racing industry both locally and provincially,”said Willard Jenkins, Exhibition Association board president.

“At least 75 per cent of the racing that goes on in this province happens here.”

A racino would deliver about $1-million annually in municipal and provincial property taxes, he said.

“One thing we are absolutely adamant about is we are not looking for taxpayers’money.

We’re looking to partner with people on the racing side.”

If everything goes according to plan, the racino and sportsplex could open sometime in 2009.

[PersonPlaceorThing]

WTF are they thinking?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Obsceneeyedog/limestone.jpg
Photo: Telegraph Journal

Likely that they (the port) like getting paid for providing services and that an empty wharf makes no money.

Plus, if they ever wanted to sell the land they could argue that it is vital to their business and that they need a lot of compensation to part with it.

[Ottawa]

http://eprraceway.com/images/schematic.jpg

Here's a little clearer layout of EPR's proposal.

[Helladog]

Anyone have any ideas when the skatepark is supposed to start.

Just one more thing aren't they suppose to raze the Y this month I hope its not delayed.


Skate park is supposed to begin in Spring; razing the Y is going on right now. It's supposed to take many weeks 'cause the ceiling tiles contain asbestos.

[Helladog]

Likely that they (the port) like getting paid for providing services and that an empty wharf makes no money.

Plus, if they ever wanted to sell the land they could argue that it is vital to their business and that they need a lot of compensation to part with it.

Actually, it's not as bad as it looks in the picture...media embellishment at it's best.

[Alberta Bound]

http://eprraceway.com/images/schematic.jpg

Here's a little clearer layout of EPR's proposal.

I don't have aything against developing that property especially with the ice surfaces but I think if Saint John wants to get into the gambling business, a hotel/casino downtown would be more suitable.

[SunCoaster]

WTF are they thinking?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Obsceneeyedog/limestone.jpg
Photo: Telegraph Journal

:previous: Damn when did I miss the memo stating that a pyramid was being relocated from Egypt to Saint John? :banana:

What is that white pile of s**t? Anyhow not that it will make you feel any better but we have a similar eye sore here on the Westcoast ... except our 'pyramid' is yellow ... as in a huge pile of sulpher located on the northside of Burrard Inlet ... directly across Burrard Inlet from Stanley Park and close (about 1/2 a KM east) of the northend of Lions Gate Bridge.

... BTW ... our yellow pile of crap has been there for about 40 years ... here's hoping your pile disappears a lotttttttttttt sooner than that !

[SJTOKO]

I don't have aything against developing that property especially with the ice surfaces but I think if Saint John wants to get into the gambling business, a hotel/casino downtown would be more suitable.

I agree, i'm sorry but this just looks like the EPR trying to buy the support of a community which does not have suitable recreation facilites. The design looks horrible, I can just see some kid running after a soccer ball and getting trampled by a horse... This is just a pathetic idea. And how much are they putting into this thing????? 20 mill.. lol.. i'm sorry but's that's pocket change in the world of gambling.. I wouldn't even approve this project unless it's something that's going to put Saint John on the gambling MAP and attract tourists...Businessmen aren't going to go to a Racino in East Saint John with cheap decor and a bunch of local casino rats.. This looks like a typical cheap project with some old fashioned backwards maritime flair... If you want to help out the community leave the sports complex where it is and build a beautiful state of the art Casino/hotel on the Saint John waterfront.. I don't want to see a bunch of yocals ripping apart the communtity and making a small amount of money by tearing apart and taking advantage of an already poor and vulnerable population....

[SJTOKO]

And showcasing this week at the SAINT JOHN RACINO... Drop your kids off at their soccer/hockey game and come give us your paycheck... TONIGHT we have Trooper playing all night long and tinfoil selling supergroup Black's Mountain will be here all weekend... Lose all of your money and then go meet up with your kids and drive home intoxicated... NEED a loan,,, no problem,,,, completely broke.... no problem, there will be an open bar to help you forget about your family your social life and allllll of your responsibilities... We will put a card with the number for the NB suicide hotline in your jacket pocket for when you sober up.... Have a nice day and thanks for coming...

[kwajo]

And showcasing this week at the SAINT JOHN RACINO... Drop your kids off at their soccer/hockey game and come give us your paycheck... TONIGHT we have Trooper playing all night long and tinfoil selling supergroup Black's Mountain will be here all weekend... Lose all of your money and then go meet up with your kids and drive home intoxicated... NEED a loan,,, no problem,,,, completely broke.... no problem, there will be an open bar to help you forget about your family your social life and allllll of your responsibilities... We will put a card with the number for the NB suicide hotline in your jacket pocket for when you sober up.... Have a nice day and thanks for coming...
This deserves to be quoted, because it is just so magnificent - in particular the part about Trooper and Black's Mountain.

I don't think anyone could sum up the idea of rambling on the East side any better (I mean a casino across the street from the Dirt Mile, I mean 3 Mile? that's just not a good idea for anyone).

[Helladog]

:previous: Damn when did I miss the memo stating that a pyramid was being relocated from Egypt to Saint John? :banana:

What is that white pile of s**t? Anyhow not that it will make you feel any better but we have a similar eye sore here on the Westcoast ... except our 'pyramid' is yellow ... as in a huge pile of sulpher located on the northside of Burrard Inlet ... directly across Burrard Inlet from Stanley Park and close (about 1/2 a KM east) of the northend of Lions Gate Bridge.

... BTW ... our yellow pile of crap has been there for about 40 years ... here's hoping your pile disappears a lotttttttttttt sooner than that !

Ours is limestone, and it'll be gone in a few months fortunately.

[Helladog]

I don't have aything against developing that property especially with the ice surfaces but I think if Saint John wants to get into the gambling business, a hotel/casino downtown would be more suitable.

Somebody wanted to do that and move the raceway to the south end where the sugar refinery was and they wouldn't give them the one year option on the land. I guess the East side is more negotiable...

Those soccer fields do look a bit out of place with the rest. Soccer field by day, horse racing by night...it's something for sure, but i don't know what...

[random11]

I agree, i'm sorry but this just looks like the EPR trying to buy the support of a community which does not have suitable recreation facilites. The design looks horrible, I can just see some kid running after a soccer ball and getting trampled by a horse... This is just a pathetic idea. And how much are they putting into this thing????? 20 mill.. lol.. i'm sorry but's that's pocket change in the world of gambling.. I wouldn't even approve this project unless it's something that's going to put Saint John on the gambling MAP and attract tourists...Businessmen aren't going to go to a Racino in East Saint John with cheap decor and a bunch of local casino rats.. This looks like a typical cheap project with some old fashioned backwards maritime flair... If you want to help out the community leave the sports complex where it is and build a beautiful state of the art Casino/hotel on the Saint John waterfront.. I don't want to see a bunch of yocals ripping apart the communtity and making a small amount of money by tearing apart and taking advantage of an already poor and vulnerable population....

I highly doubt this proposal will ever see life. The Provincial Government, while publicly stating that they support the concept of a Racino, will never become involved without the ALC (Atlantic Lottery Commission). The ALC will NEVER get in bed with Exhibition Park Raceway because of their reputation (pure and simple). The EPR Board have less than a desirable reputation in the province and massive re-structuring changes would have to be made and trust me, that's not going to happen anyday soon. The reason for this proposal is merely to create some pressure and make some noise and get some people moving. However, I stand by my position. $20 says this thing never gets off the ground - and if it ever does, there will be a clean slate in control at EPR before it does.

[thefishingnut]

If a Racino involves increasing the number of VLT's around, it's a horrid idea.

I keep reading about threats that the harness track would relocate to PEI, and I'm left wondering what the downside would be to 99.99% of citizens.

How about the city buy the property, put in the sports facilities, and not have the track and Racino? Every time I drive past the empty track, I can't help thinking the whole place is just a waste of valuable space. It's a shame Eastpoint didn't buy the place and build there, instead of blowing up a hill. It would be a shame to continue wasting the space by sticking in a Racino.

[michael_d40]

http://harvest.canadaeast.com/image.php?id=45133&size=300x0


I think this is awesome ! :)

Hollywood glitz comes to city

Commerce Developer says he wants to help make Saint John drive-in city

Dave MacLean
Telegraph-Journal
Published Wednesday November 7th, 2007
Appeared on page C1

SAINT JOHN - East Point Shopping will look like Hollywood or the Las Vegas Strip beginning tonight.

The bustling East Side retail development has added four spotlights - clearly visible from points as far away as Rothesay, the South End and the West Side - to help attract shoppers by shining beams of light into the night sky.

Developer Troy Northrup says the goal is to create interest from tourists and area residents alike.

"We're hoping to get all those people who use that highway and often drive past Saint John to pull in," said Northrup. "As a community we need to do everything we can to make sure Saint John is a drive-in city, not a drive-by city.

"We're trying to add a level of excitement and curiosity. If there's one thing that we've learned about retail shopping, it's that it's all about the experience. And creating that experience is what East Point is all about. This is just one more thing that goes toward enhancing that experience."

East Point has been successful in attracting a number of clothing stores and has recently added Indigo music and book retailer and the Starbucks coffee chain. Northrup is aggressively courting other retailers and says generating traffic for the current tenants will help attract further development.

"It's all part of selling the community," he said.

"The decision-makers are sitting in their offices in Chicago and Seattle and New Jersey and Vancouver and Toronto and they don't know Saint John. We need to sell the community to them. Our site, quite frankly, is an easy sell. What's tough is selling Saint John to people who aren't familiar with the city and that's why we need the endorsement of the community.

"Everyone has a part to play in helping sell the community to those outside. That benefits all of us. This is a community project and it's going to help our lifestyle."

The spotlights will be turned on each night at dusk and will light up the sky above the popular development until closing time.

But it wasn't simply a matter of buying the spotlights and turning them on, Northrup said.

"There was quite a process we had to go through," he said.

"We were the first in Canada to apply and get permission since 9/11.

"We were setting a new precedent, so we had to jump through one pile of hoops. We had to make sure we were the proper distance away from the airport. (Transport Canada) wanted to know the strength of the beams and where they were going to be pointed to make sure it wasn't going to be a navigational hazard. It wound up setting a new precedent in the country."

Northrup said the entire process cost an estimated $100,000.

East Point is also busy getting into the Yuletide spirit. Northrup said crews have begun installing some of the nearly 50,000 energy-efficient LED Christmas lights that will adorn trees on the property.

"It's not the little things that will draw crowds and make us successful," he said. "But it's the sum of many little things that can carry us a long way."

[michael_d40]

Also, heres the new site for Eastpoint. Was just updated. With more to come
Take a look at the bottom at what the Starbucks and Indigo are gonna look like.
Two great looking stores.