[harls]

it's weird.. last year at this same time in Montreal it was 17 degrees.. I remember I made a photo thread about it.

then two weeks later we got that 50 cm of snow in one day. I was halfway digging out my car when I realized it wasn't mine.

[shreddog]

Just to add some more fun to the Toronto/Calgary weather comparison, I did a quick search on the Environment Canada website for the official temperatures for Christmas for the past 5 years.

Daytime High on December 25th:

2005: Calgary = +14.7C, Toronto = +4.0C
2004: Calgary = +4.6C, Toronto = -6.4C
2003: Calgary = +4.4C, Toronto = +2.6C
2002: Calgary = +7.2C, Toronto = -0.2C
2001: Calgary = +4.3C, Toronto = +0.5C

Nighttime Low on December 25th:

2005: Calgary = -1.9C, Toronto = +0.3C
2004: Calgary = -4.9C, Toronto = -17.7C
2003: Calgary = -7.5C, Toronto = -2.1C
2002: Calgary = -6.3C, Toronto = -4.3C
2001: Calgary = -9.1C, Toronto = -5.8C

So the trend for the past 5 years is that on Christmas it was roughly 5-10 degrees warmer during the day in Calgary, while at night it was 2-4 degrees warmer in Toronto.

Kinda funny given the current weather aborations in both places.

NOTE: I ain’t tryin to say one city has better weather than the other. No one in Canada travels to either Toronto or Calgary for their nice balmy winter weather!

EDIT: Just for ITW! ;-)

[IntotheWest]

No one in Canada travels to either Toronto or Calgary for their nice winter weather!

Ummm...skiing? :-)

Anyway - this is getting frickin' ridiculous...it is so bloody cold out, and that Chinook for Friday doesn't look all that great...-3c for a high? Well, I guess that's at least up to Vancouver's miserable temperatures.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like it feels like -18c in Van right now with the wind chill...so I guess -3c is even better.

[IntotheWest]

I did a quick search on the Environment Canada website for the official temperatures for Christmas for the past 5 years.

Daytime High on December 25th:

2005: Calgary = +14.7C, Toronto = +4.0C
2004: Calgary = +4.6C, Toronto = -6.4C
2003: Calgary = +4.4C, Toronto = +2.6C
2002: Calgary = +7.2C, Toronto = -0.2C
2001: Calgary = +4.3C, Toronto = +0.5C


I moved to Calgary in Dec 99, and I remember Christmas was also warm (11.3c, low of -5)...two days later, on the 27th, it hit 20c...it felt like summer at Christmas!

[scumtoes]

this cold weather is starting to piss me off. and the only let up in sight is friday with a HIGH of -7C. tarnation!

at least my rink will be open soon for some prime shiny hockey.

[dubiousmike]

T-Minus 36 hours to chinook.

*crosses fingers*

At least it's sunny.

[Doug]

Observed at: Calgary Int'l Airport 29 November 2006 9:00 AM MST

Condition: Sunny Temperature: -23.1°C Pressure / Tendency: 103.2 kPa / falling Visibility: 64 km Humidity: 64% WindChill: -32 Dew Point: -28°C Wind Speed: SSW 13 km/h 5 Day Forecast
Issued: 6.39 AM MST Wednesday 29 November 2006

Today: Sunny. Wind becoming southwest 20 km/h near noon. High minus 15. Wind chill minus 40 this morning and minus 28 this afternoon.
Tonight: Clear. Increasing cloudiness near midnight. Wind southwest 20 km/h. Temperature rising to minus 5 by morning.
Thursday: Clearing in the morning. Wind southwest 20 km/h becoming west 40 gusting to 60 then diminishing to 20 late in the day. High minus 2.
Friday: A mix of sun and cloud. Low minus 18. High minus 10.
Saturday: Sunny. Low minus 13. High minus 1.
Sunday: Sunny. Low minus 2. High 11.

[ExcaliburKid]

Heard on the radio this morning that it will be 0C by Sunday here in E-town

[Coldrsx]

wicked...cant wait for roads to unice so i can have some fun.

[feepa]

Looks like the tables are turning in Toronto

Text Forecast from Environment Canada
Toronto: Issued 11.00 AM EST Wednesday 29 November 2006

Today
Cloudy with sunny periods and 30 percent chance of showers. Wind becoming southwest 20 km/h early this afternoon. High 16.
Tonight
Cloudy with 30 percent chance of showers. Wind southwest 30 km/h. Low 13.
Thursday
Cloudy. Rain beginning early in the morning. Amount 15 to 25 mm. Wind southwest 30 km/h becoming north 30 early in the afternoon. High 15 with temperature falling to plus 5 in the evening.
Friday
Cloudy with 70 percent chance of rain or snow. Low plus 1. High plus 3.
Saturday
A mix of sun and cloud with 30 percent chance of flurries. Low minus 3. High plus 3.
Sunday
Cloudy with 60 percent chance of flurries. Low minus 5. High plus 1.

[IntotheWest]

My wife was telling me that the 110-year low record broke in Calgary the other night was talked about on Regis and Kelly (talk show in NY)...

I'm sure they just couldn't believe those -30c values :-)

I've seen +3c for calgary on Sunday...that's still far off though to really tell.

[Coldrsx]

and van is in for another 30-45cm of snow in the next 24hrs....

[Taller Better]

and van is in for another 30-45cm of snow in the next 24hrs....

Good grief.. you are joking, aren't you?

[LordMandeep]

Vancouver and Victoria aren't used to the snow.

[Coldrsx]

so says the weather network...

[CanadianCentaur]

The Weather Network's a joke compared to Environment Canada.

Environment Canada predicts only 2-4 cm today and 5-10 cm tomorrow, snow changing to rain as it gets warmer. Temps in Vancouver are also forecasted to get back to near normal by tomorrow.

[scumtoes]

^ i dunno, i find the weather network much more accurate than enviro canada. especially their long term forcasts, they seem to be money shots most times.

[feepa]

^ i dunno, i find the weather network much more accurate than enviro canada. especially their long term forcasts, they seem to be money shots most times.

Doesn't the weather network base there forecasts on the information they get from EC?

[Mike K.]

Weather network is a waste of time.

Btw, it's +1C in Victoria and the snow has stopped falling. Come this evening, hello rain showers and 5C.

[CanadianCentaur]

Up to -19C today here in Edmonton. Warmest day since Nov. 24. Woo-fricking-hoo.

The only upside is that it's been sunny for the last couple of days.

[jeffwhit]

I think we hit almost -10 in Calgary. I hope the end is in site, this is awful.

[Xelebes]

It feels certifiably balmy.

[rousseau]

cool map.

looks like Toronto sneaks into Zone 6. You can see the "lake effect" from the other side of L. Ontario, NY.

Same with Windsor area, around L. St. Clair.
Toronto is most definitely Zone 5, not Zone 6. Hamilton below the mountain has a micro-climate which is Zone 6, though.

[shreddog]

For all us Calgarians - here's a reminder of last weekend (taken in K-country) while we're basking in this weekend's chinook.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/shreddog/IMG_3154.jpg

[Taller Better]

Toronto is most definitely Zone 5, not Zone 6. Hamilton below the mountain has a micro-climate which is Zone 6, though.

Then it is awfully close to Zone 5, isn't it? :yes: Particularily downtown which
has a climate of its own. It can be snowing like crazy at the airport and raining downtown.


TheWeatherNetwork gets 100% of its raw data from Environment Canada. EC changes their predictions more often than most of us change our chewing gum, probably sometimes just by looking out their windows, so if anyone wants to complain about incorrect forecasting it is probably the fault of Environment Canada.

[Taller Better]

Toronto is most definitely Zone 5, not Zone 6. Hamilton below the mountain has a micro-climate which is Zone 6, though.

Then it is awfully close to Zone 5's margin, isn't it? :yes: Particularily downtown Toronto which has a climate of its own. It can be snowing like crazy at the airport and raining downtown.


TheWeatherNetwork gets 100% of its raw data from Environment Canada. EC changes their predictions more often than most of us change our chewing gum, so if anyone wants to complain about incorrect forecasting it is probably the fault of Environment Canada.

[itom 987]

It looks like we need to make thermometers that go down to -40c.

[Boris2k7]

It looks like we need to make thermometers that go down to -40c.

I was pondering about that myself. :cheers:

LOL, I am already used to the cold (despite the fact that we have a Chinook coming up). I made sure to walk my 3Km to the train station the other morning... at -31C.

... oh yeah, and that was without the windchill. Meh, it was sunny and blue skies, so at least that helps thaw you out a bit.

[Blitz]

TheWeatherNetwork gets 100% of its raw data from Environment Canada. EC changes their predictions more often than most of us change our chewing gum, probably sometimes just by looking out their windows, so if anyone wants to complain about incorrect forecasting it is probably the fault of Environment Canada.

The Weather Network is a private company and has their own team of many meteorologists. They get some data from Environment Canada (current radar pictures for example) but their forecasts are their own.

[habsfan]

It looks like we need to make thermometers that go down to -40c.

damn! You know winter is gonna be long when you get -40 degrees in november!

[caltrane74]

Toronto is going to be cold this weekend. - I think it will be around 0- 1 degrees C.

I bought 2 new jackets. I cant wait to wear them when hanging on Yonge St, this Saturday and the Bookstore.

[habsfan]

I think it will be around 0- 1 degrees C.

Same here. the forecast calls for temps ranging between +1 celcius and -1 celcius.

[harls]

I couldn't believe how warm it was this morning..

tonight the shit's going to hit the fan though, freezing rain.. yippee!

[habsfan]

I couldn't believe how warm it was this morning..

tonight the shit's going to hit the fan though, freezing rain.. yippee!

no kidding, I walked out my house this morning and it was as though spring had come early...really early!

[Taller Better]

Same here. the forecast calls for temps ranging between +1 celcius and -1 celcius.

Good. Make sure it gets no colder, cuz I'll be in Montreal for the weekend! Mind you, I will do my best to heat things up a bit! ;) :whip::naughty:

[caltrane74]

I should have bought an umbrella for the weekend. Or at least today. Its pouring cats and dogs. The west is giving us a taste of thier misery for the weekend.

[feepa]

The Weather Network is a private company and has their own team of many meteorologists. They get some data from Environment Canada (current radar pictures for example) but their forecasts are their own.

"raw data" would not include forecasts :tup:

[Taller Better]

"raw data" would not include forecasts :tup:

In any case I have found for Toronto that The Weather Network is pretty good, as far as forecasts go. It is more conservative than some of the others, and general low balls temp predictions, but more times than the others they are closer to the real temp.
They do update their stuff all the time, unlike what some people say. No
weather forecaster is going to be perfect... it is weather after all.

[harls]

sonofabitch the freezing rain is pelting my window at a furious pace.

should have brought my skates with me to work, it's going to be a fun walk home..

[Taller Better]

Pouring cats and dogs. Now it is supposed to go to 7c today. I guess as long as it doesn't snow.

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1793/dec0106ln6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[rousseau]

Then it is awfully close to Zone 5's margin, isn't it? :yes: Particularily downtown Toronto which has a climate of its own. It can be snowing like crazy at the airport and raining downtown.
I'd say no. When we used to live in downtown Hamilton, which is definitely Zone 6 (i.e. many flowers/plants survive into November), we'd go to downtown Toronto and notice right away how much colder it is, usually by three or four degrees. True year round, that.

[IntotheWest]

I'd say no. When we used to live in downtown Hamilton, which is definitely Zone 6 (i.e. many flowers/plants survive into November), we'd go to downtown Toronto and notice right away how much colder it is, usually by three or four degrees. True year round, that.

The biggest differentiator in zones is the "Extreme" lows (or highs) that an area can receive. However, it's also very common to have micro-climates...so, I'm sure areas around the horseshoe can handle up to Zone 6/7 plants. I have several Zone 5 (and a Zone 6) plant in my Calgary backyard - yet, Calgary is - for the most part - not even Zone 4.

Taller - by the way, the pics are looking nice and "green" still!:)

[someone123]

Well, micro climates exist for all of the zones. Cities tend to stay warmer at night regardless of where they are, for example. There's even a big difference between the "climate" of an open field and a sheltered backyard, although obviously a map like that can't capture that level of detail.

It would be interesting to see what kind of plants can be grown here. In Nova Scotia, there are some monkey puzzle trees and there are supposedly rhododendrons up to 20 feet tall. I don't think that the palm trees of the type that survive in Vancouver have survived in NS for any length of time though.

[caltrane74]

I'd say no. When we used to live in downtown Hamilton, which is definitely Zone 6 (i.e. many flowers/plants survive into November), we'd go to downtown Toronto and notice right away how much colder it is, usually by three or four degrees. True year round, that.

Last year I was up in Markham during a blizzard. It was snow up to my ankles, and when I got downtown it was raining. No snow. And that happens all the time during the winter. Downtown Toronto hardly ever gets any snowfall accumulation and is usually a bit warmer. Just due to the heat island effect. All the concrete and asphalt just absorbing the heat of the city. And releasing it much slower back into the atmosphere downtown.

[Taller Better]

Taller - by the way, the pics are looking nice and "green" still!:)

I am always extremely happy if the grass stays green til Jan01! That is always my goal. But normally the grass
stays at least greenish very close to Christmas, unless it is a horrendously cold December. One winter, within the
last decade, the grass stayed green well into January. This year fall was cold, but we have not had a hard frost yet,
just some light ones, so the grass is still summery green. Most falls the grass browns because of dryness, but this year
we had a lot of rain in the fall.

I'd say no. When we used to live in downtown Hamilton, which is definitely Zone 6 (i.e. many flowers/plants survive into November), we'd go to downtown Toronto and notice right away how much colder it is, usually by three or four degrees. True year round, that.


Actually, Hamilton is only VERY marginally warmer than TO, and we are talking fractions of degrees. Here is Hamiltons average weather chart from Environment Canada:

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=hamilton&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=4932&

and here is Toronto's chart from EC:

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=toronto&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=5097&

Both charts are for airport temps, not downtown temps, to have things all equal in the comparison. Flowers, etc.. last into November in Toronto, too. In fact there are still some flowers and across the street Boston Ferns.
The reality is that Hamilton is less than a half an hour drive from Toronto, so it is not surprising the temps are similar. Once you get into the Bench area of Niagara on the Lake, or into Windsor, then the temps warm up.


It would be interesting to see what kind of plants can be grown here. In Nova Scotia, there are some monkey puzzle trees and there are supposedly rhododendrons up to 20 feet tall. .


I'd love to see a photo of a 20 foot rhododendron in Nova Scotia! Please post one if it is true. Halifax and Toronto have almost identical climates (again, the high/low/average thing is only a fraction of a degree) and no way a Rhododendron would grow higher here than a max of maybe 5-6 feet. I noticed in mild parts of New England that the Rhododendrons grew to about 6 feet quite easily, and possibly more. They looked bigger and healthier than the ones here. The ones here usually look a bit sickly unless they are very well tended. This is about as nice as they get in Toronto:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3168/jun0206rhododendronssacqx2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

which is not as nice as they grow in Vancouver. Yuccas will grow here:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/706/jun2306torontoislandsiycj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

and lilypads, too

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8035/jun2306torontoislandslica9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[rousseau]

Actually, Hamilton is only VERY marginally warmer than TO...
The reality is that Hamilton is less than a half an hour drive from Toronto, so it is not surprising the temps are similar.
Nope. Downtown Hamilton is below the escarpment, so the winds "blow over" it. It's normally 3 to 4 degrees warmer than downtown Toronto.

[scumtoes]

*drunk posst*

whatever.

can you "canadians" skate on outdoor hockey rinks for 5 months out of the year? and you call yourself's the "mecca" of hockey?!

[flar]

You can't see the effects of Lower Hamilton's microclimate from the weather office, because those readings are from the airport (Same for TO of course). But the Niagara escarpment has a big effect on weather. That's why the areas under the escarpment are one of Canada's best fruit growing regions, including wine country.

[someone123]

Well, I have pictures of some in Halifax (note the person on the path and the two on the left):
http://www.pbase.com/halifaxphoto/image/40657983.jpg

Here's a picture from flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rubyrubyf/43653078/in/set-950426/

The taller ones, if they do exist, are along the South shore.

Averages don't really tell the whole story. Toronto has larger temperature swings. Weather stations 35 km inland (airport) or in Dartmouth (Shearwater) don't really reflect conditions in the city either.

[IntotheWest]

Dp

[IntotheWest]

which is not as nice as they grow in Vancouver. Yuccas will grow here:


I have Yuccas in my back yard - as well as Prickley Pear Cactuses - all Zone 5/6 (which grow naturally in SW Alberta anyway), so it should have no problem out in the open in southern Ont. Parts of the lower mainland are up to Zone 10...good for a great selection of plants.

[LordMandeep]

it snowed about 2cm outside of Toronto.

AAAAHAHHA!

I like a snow cover, its covers up the complete uglyness off the real Canadian Winter. Dead Trees, grass, all grey and boring and garbage everywhere!

[drew]

I like a snow cover, its covers up the complete uglyness off the real Canadian Winter. Dead Trees, grass, all grey and boring and garbage everywhere!

Come to Winnipeg for a "real" Canadian winter. White and snowy from December till March.

[LordMandeep]

I hate winter when its not snow covered. It is so ugly....

[MonkeyRonin]

I hate winter when its not snow covered. It is so ugly....

Snow makes it even uglier cause after a few hours it just turns all brown. the thin layer of snow in my area already melted though.

[Taller Better]

I have Yuccas in my back yard - as well as Prickley Pear Cactuses - all Zone 5/6 (which grow naturally in SW Alberta anyway), so it should have no problem out in the open in southern Ont. Parts of the lower mainland are up to Zone 10...good for a great selection of plants.


Yuccas seem to be an exceedingly hardy plant! I've seen cacti planted here;
some native to Alberta, and some that are native to Pelee Island at the very Southern tip of Ontario (and Canada).
No question that the lower mainland and Vancouver Island have the broadest range of plants. Also, they grow much lusher, as well.

Well, I have pictures of some in Halifax (note the person on the path and the two on the left):

The taller ones, if they do exist, are along the South shore.

Averages don't really tell the whole story. Toronto has larger temperature swings. Weather stations 35 km inland (airport) or in Dartmouth (Shearwater) don't really reflect conditions in the city either.

I really don't know how much difference there is between Halifax and Toronto, or how misleading the statistics are but I can assure you that downtown Toronto, which is on the lakefront and has lots of concrete, etc.. has a milder microclimate than at the airport. Halifax is not unique in this respect, but I don't know how much difference there is.
I would think the temperature swings are probably more pronounced in Toronto than in Halifax.The one thing I know for sure is that Halifax is blessed with much more snow! ;)
Downtown Toronto has a microclimate, but it is still not as mild at the Escarpment area of Niagara-on-the-Lake.
Very hardy strains of azaleas will survive in Toronto, but again they are not as lush as the ones in BC. Here is the type
that survives best in Toronto:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7702/april3006cabbagetowniios7.jpg

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6776/april2406flowersazaleaslm1.jpg

^On mild years the red ones survive, but only just and they look miserable after winter kill.

Toronto has many flowering cherry trees, and is marginal for some of the Japanese varieties:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6100/april2806highparkblossops0.jpg

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/8974/may0706osgoodehalliiph9.jpg

Wisteria grows here, but I've never seen any as thick and old as on the coast:

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/5201/may2206wisteriatimeilk3.jpg

I am no gardener, so maybe can someone let me know... is this Laburnum? If it is, it
grows here but is not as common as on the West Coast:

http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/7232/may2806laburnumondundonuw6.jpg

Dogwood

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/4262/may2206riverdaledogwoodkl4.jpg

and magnolias, but they don't get a lot bigger than this:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/984/april3006cabbagetowniiilh1.jpg


Nope. Downtown Hamilton is below the escarpment, so the winds "blow over" it. It's normally 3 to 4 degrees warmer than downtown Toronto.

rousseau, if you are interested, check out the Environment Canada links I gave earlier for temperature normals in
Hamilton and Toronto. :)

[someone123]

The one thing I know for sure is that Halifax is blessed with much more snow!

That depends on what you consider "much more snow".

Consider: http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=halifax%20citadel&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=6357&&autofwd=1
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=toronto&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=5051&

Toronto's annual snowfall (measured on U of T campus) is 133.1 cm.
Halifax's annual snowfall (measured on top of a hill above the city) is 151.8 cm.

That is a very marginal difference and to some degree can probably be accounted for simply by variations in where the stations are set up. In January, Halifax averages 38.4 cm of snow and Toronto averages 38.2 cm.

The significant difference, and the reason why people think Halifax gets a ton of snow, is that it tends to have major snowstorms instead of small, regular snowfall. Toronto received snowfall on average on 42 days, while Halifax normally receives its snowfall during only 24 days.

Another big difference that people normally don't mention is that Halifax gets much more sunshine and much more rain in the winter than Toronto. January precipitation in Halifax is about 3/4 rain (110 mm) while in Toronto it is almost 2/3 snow (only 29 mm of rain).

Also, there are places in Nova Scotia (i.e. the whole Southern/Western coast) that receive less snow than anywhere else in Canada aside from BC and certain arid arctic regions. The notion that all parts of Atlantic Canada receive tons of snow is simply false.

[vanman]

Yuccas seem to be an exceedingly hardy plant! I've seen cacti planted here;
some native to Alberta, and some that are native to Pelee Island at the very Southern tip of Ontario (and Canada).
No question that the lower mainland and Vancouver Island have the broadest range of plants. Also, they grow much lusher, as well.



I really don't know how much difference there is between Halifax and Toronto, or how misleading the statistics are but I can assure you that downtown Toronto, which is on the lakefront and has lots of concrete, etc.. has a milder microclimate than at the airport. Halifax is not unique in this respect, but I don't know how much difference there is.
I would think the temperature swings are probably more pronounced in Toronto than in Halifax.The one thing I know for sure is that Halifax is blessed with much more snow! ;)
Downtown Toronto has a microclimate, but it is still not as mild at the Escarpment area of Niagara-on-the-Lake.
Very hardy strains of azaleas will survive in Toronto, but again they are not as lush as the ones in BC. Here is the type
that survives best in Toronto:


rousseau, I encourage you check the Environment Canada links I gave earlier for temperature normals in
Hamilton and Toronto. Believe it or not, statistics are more accurate than anecdotal memories. Both cities at the moment are 0c, by the way, and both cities are predicted to be staying at 0c all afternoon. I don't think the difference
in temperatures between Hamilton and Toronto is as pronounced as you believe.

On my street in Burnaby a crapload of cherry trees had up to half or more of their branches snap off because of the ridiculously cold temperatures. They used to be so symetrical now they are going to look like shit in the spring....oh well

[Taller Better]

As for snow comparisons between Halifax and Toronto it really does depend where you get the statistics.
As they vary wildly from station to station within a city, it is kind of pointless comparing, I guess. I normally
use airport statistics for all cities but those vary a lot from the inner city.

[Taller Better]

On my street in Burnaby a crapload of cherry trees had up to half or more of their branches snap off because of the ridiculously cold temperatures. They used to be so symetrical now they are going to look like shit in the spring....oh well

Vanman, can I ask a favour. Would you mind to remove my photo links in
that last message as it might overload my Imageshack account. Thanks!
After a cold winter here, the flowering Japanese trees don't put on a very
good display. It has to be a nice winter for a really good show. Some of the
ones I have shown near Grenadier Pond were a gift from Japan in the 60's.

[someone123]

I find it easier to compare all cities to their airport statistics as given by Environment Canada.
Halifax:
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=halifax&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=6358&

Toronto:
http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=toronto&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=5097&

Downtown statistics are skewed in all cities and you can pick and choose and cherry pick from a myriad of stations til the cows come home if you choose. January Halifax airport receives a normal average of 54.6 cm of snow. Toronto's receives 31.1cm. February Halifax receives 50.1cm of snow. Toronto 22.1cm. I'd say that is a significant difference, but I am sure another person will just say "nope" so I guess there is no point using statistics in discussing this.

How is this airport choice any less arbitrary than what I did, which was to take weather stations closest to their respective city cores, they places that we are actually talking about?

You are the one doing the cherry picking, since you've been going on about the climate in downtown Toronto but then suddenly want to talk about airport conditions when it suits your argument.

[Taller Better]

Know what, someone? I think the subject has been flogged to death.
For the record I only quote airport temperatures for Toronto, as well
as other cities. I am not going to get into haggling with you as frankly I am not that
interested in the difference between Halifax and Toronto in temperatures.
Have a great day! :)

[SteelTown]

Actually, Hamilton is only VERY marginally warmer than TO, and we are talking fractions of degrees. Here is Hamiltons average weather chart from Environment Canada:

http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/climate_normals/results_e.html?Province=ALL&StationName=hamilton&SearchType=BeginsWith&LocateBy=Province&Proximity=25&ProximityFrom=City&StationNumber=&IDType=MSC&CityName=&ParkName=&LatitudeDegrees=&LatitudeMinutes=&LongitudeDegrees=&LongitudeMinutes=&NormalsClass=A&SelNormals=&StnId=4932&

The problem with this is it collecting the data from the airport. Hamilton's airport is at top of the Escarpment. Usually you have to add 2 degrees from the temperature from the Airport to lower Hamilton since the Escarpment traps the warm air in Lower Hamilton.

You be surprised how different the weather could be compared to Hamilton Mountain and Lower Hamilton. It's not rare to have snow up on the Mountain and rain in Lower Hamilton. It tends to be more foggy on the Mountain compared to Lower Hamilton. Gets more smoggy on the Mountain as well.

[Taller Better]

Yes, the airport temps for both cities are different than the downtown temps. Downtown the temperatures in Toronto are affected by being right on the lake, and with all the concrete, cars, etc.... Yesterday was a perfect example with the snow accumulating at the airport, but not downtown.

[SteelTown]

When we used to live in downtown Hamilton, which is definitely Zone 6 (i.e. many flowers/plants survive into November), we'd go to downtown Toronto and notice right away how much colder it is, usually by three or four degrees. True year round, that.

There's a photo thread of a neighbourhood in Hamilton which is next to the Escarpment here's the thread and you can check for yourself the leaves and flowers still alive http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=121031

These photos were taken on November 27
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/stinson/00025.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/stinson/00037.jpg

[Taller Better]

I just posted some pix in the photo section of some flower shots from yesterday. They probably won't last much longer. Winter is on its way!

[IntotheWest]

^We've had some of our hardier flowers last in Calgary well into Nov as well (last year)...it is definitely nice to see them into Dec - the good weather out east has really helped extend their lives! Something west coasters enjoy through-out the winter (well, along with constant rain...but it's almost "greener" than in summer :-)

As far as the comparisons of the micro-climates, I agree with Taller that using the airport stations is as good as it gets...though, to locals of their respective cities, that doesn't mean much. Many times during the winter, it's been reported on local CTV news, that the difference between the airport and south Calgary is more than 10 degrees (most usually as part of a chinook).

As well, from my time in Vancouver, I find the downtown (lived at Canada Place) much cooler than central Van or the airport...where as Surrey is usually warmer, and Burnaby gets more snow.

In all, we most all share some bad weather and good....

keep posting the pics of TO though - that's the only reason I'm coming back to this thread :-)

[Taller Better]

^We've had some of our hardier flowers last in Calgary well into Nov as well (last year)...it is definitely nice to see them into Dec - the good weather out east has really helped extend their lives! Something west coasters enjoy through-out the winter (well, along with constant rain...but it's almost "greener" than in summer :-)

As far as the comparisons of the micro-climates, I agree with Taller that using the airport stations is as good as it gets...though, to locals of their respective cities, that doesn't mean much. Many times during the winter, it's been reported on local CTV news, that the difference between the airport and south Calgary is more than 10 degrees (most usually as part of a chinook).

As well, from my time in Vancouver, I find the downtown (lived at Canada Place) much cooler than central Van or the airport...where as Surrey is usually warmer, and Burnaby gets more snow.

In all, we most all share some bad weather and good....

keep posting the pics of TO though - that's the only reason I'm coming back to this thread :-)


Thanks for the nice words! I'm not sure everyone is as happy with the TO pix, so I will tread carefully! ;) Posted a new set from today, in the photo thread in this section. Someone at SSC told me about Irises still blooming near where I live (astoundingly) , and blow me down he was right. Also roses still around, but they are extremely hardy and will often sort of bloom well into Dec. A few pix from today:

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9026/dec0304irisesica2.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3546/dec0306viewiiine1.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3360/dec0306viewvivga7.jpg

As for temperature/climate comparisons, I just assumed all Canadians followed the airport conditions rule. As far as I know, that is where the official records are based (highs, lows, etc...) for most cities, as it is usually the station that is safest from human tampering, and is most removed from the artificial influences of downtown heat, etc... I know in England they seem to scour though all million dinky little temperature stations to find the highest temps, but in North America I believe that the airport is considered the standard.

@Steeltown, thanks for that Hamilton link... I enjoyed those pix! Some nice old Vic houses and public buildings!
If I had a car I would drive to Hamilton and properly photograph the Anglican cathedral that I love so much.

[rousseau]

As for temperature/climate comparisons, I just assumed all Canadians followed the airport conditions rule. As far as I know, that is where the official records are based (highs, lows, etc...) for most cities, as it is usually the station that is safest from human tampering, and is most removed from the artificial influences of downtown heat, etc...
I guess I'm beating a dead horse here, but you don't seem to get it. Yes, we all know that the "airport rule" applies everywhere. No need to repeat that. The thing about Hamilton is that not only is downtown warmed just by dint of it being downtown (i.e., different from the airport), but it's below the escarpment.

Repeat: downtown Hamilton is below the escarpment. This is why it's usually 3 or 4 degrees warmer than downtown Toronto. Just like the parts of Niagara which are also below the escarpment.

You may now go back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Taller Better]

^^LOL! Ok! I don't mind the odd tap, but not big on beating. One of these weekends I am going to jump on a Go Bus and go to Hamilton for a photo shoot. There are some very hot buildings there (my fave house in Ontario, built by Camila Parker Bowles distant ancestor- Dundurn) . Plus, now I know it is warmer there so I will take some sun tanning lotion! :cool:

My impression is that downtown Hamilton and Halifax have a similar climate.

(there. That will take the heat off me and get the Haligonians and the Hamiltonians splitting hairs, snowflakes, and each other's skulls!

[vanman]

Vanman, can I ask a favour. Would you mind to remove my photo links in
that last message as it might overload my Imageshack account. Thanks!
After a cold winter here, the flowering Japanese trees don't put on a very
good display. It has to be a nice winter for a really good show. Some of the
ones I have shown near Grenadier Pond were a gift from Japan in the 60's.

Done

[Taller Better]

Done


Thanks! On that particular Imageshack site I had posted and reposted a lot of
pix and I don't want them to all conk out! :cheers:

[feepa]

Now looking a little more better for this time of year... laughing may now subside, until the next cold snap.
Edmonton: Issued 5.00 AM MST Monday 4 December 2006

Today
Cloudy. Snow beginning late this afternoon. High minus 1.
Tonight
Snow ending overnight then cloudy. Amount 5 cm. Low minus 8.
Tuesday
Cloudy. 30 percent chance of flurries in the afternoon. Wind becoming west 20 km/h late in the morning. High plus 1.
Wednesday
Sunny. Low minus 11. High minus 2.
Thursday
Sunny. Low minus 3. High plus 4.
Friday
Sunny. Low minus 4. High minus 1.

[IntotheWest]

^Calgary is now +5c (though overcast, and still lots of snow on the ground).

At least its a nice break, and above "average" (which is about 0c).

Taller - nice rose pic! Wow...it's been a few years since I spent a winter in TO, but I don't recall them lasting that long into the season! As much as I hate the rain, I love that about Vancouver - all the winter flowers (i.e. hardy) going throughout the winter...and of course, the windmill palms - even if it is close to 0c.

The magnolia pic you posted above, I don't recall seeing many in Vancouver that got much larger than that (maybe one or two in Kits)...one of my favourite trees, that we'd never get to grow here.

[Taller Better]

^Calgary is now +5c (though overcast, and still lots of snow on the ground).

At least its a nice break, and above "average" (which is about 0c).

Taller - nice rose pic! Wow...it's been a few years since I spent a winter in TO, but I don't recall them lasting that long into the season! As much as I hate the rain, I love that about Vancouver - all the winter flowers (i.e. hardy) going throughout the winter...and of course, the windmill palms - even if it is close to 0c.

The magnolia pic you posted above, I don't recall seeing many in Vancouver that got much larger than that (maybe one or two in Kits)...one of my favourite trees, that we'd never get to grow here.


Magnolias get bigger in the Southern States.... they are an exceptionally beautiful blossom! Roses are astoundingly tough, and can easily weather it out into December. The buds stop opening when it gets too cold, though, but the leaves are very hardy and the plant will remain green very late into December. I'm imagining a lot of those flowers I photographed yesterday have now officially bit the dust, as it has been below zero since last night. When I walked the dogs the earth was getting crunchy, and it is still -2c out . Oh well, was fun while it lasted! The latest I remember any flowers lasting in TO was about ten years ago, when some hardy white chrysanthemums lasted til a few days before Christmas. But that is exceptionally rare.

[caltrane74]

Grass is still extremely green in Toronto. But its very cold. And I dont think its gonna get warmer than 1 degree C this week.

[IntotheWest]

I think Calgary is the second warmest place right now - just a degree behind Victoria...7c and nice and sunny (that's about 37 degrees warmer than a week ago), and Thursday a high of 13c!

Okay...we'll wait and see if that happens ;-)

[CMD UW]

/\ Yea. Winter weather in Alberta is too unpredictable to trust the 'longterm' forecast. I only 'rely' on the forecast for the next 48-hours at the most from October to March.

[1ajs]

/\ Yea. Winter weather in Alberta is too unpredictable to trust the 'longterm' forecast. I only 'rely' on the forecast for the next 48-hours at the most from October to March.

its that warm eek its guna get ugly here when the warm front moves in...

[Greco Roman]

Grass is still extremely green in Toronto. But its very cold. And I dont think its gonna get warmer than 1 degree C this week.

Sorry, I don't feel sorry for ya. ;)

[caltrane74]

Snow tonight in Toronto!!

[caltrane74]

Didn't snow. Weathermen are such fools.

[Blitz]

I don't think anyone in London is laughing at Edmonton right now. We've had 50cm of lake-effect snow over the past day!

[caltrane74]

50 cm of snow in London. None in Toronto.

Lake effect snow is wierd. It only seems to hit London and Buffalo and not Toronto. Cause we are on the wrong side of the lake. If we were in Rochester we would get hammered like buffalo.

Like Calgary, Toronto will be considerably warmer this weekend. I think the cold that hit the west last week is finally moving out of here.

[Greco Roman]

+4C today in E-town. I have a road trip to make today, so I guess I'll load up on the windshield wiper fluid. :)

[Taller Better]

Oh yeah, it is going to be a mess to drive, Albertaboy. Nothing is worse than trying to drive with a filthy windshield.

[Blitz]

Lake effect snow is wierd. It only seems to hit London and Buffalo and not Toronto. Cause we are on the wrong side of the lake. If we were in Rochester we would get hammered like buffalo.


It's really isolated but can be very intense. This snow band sat over London for 24 hours...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/cmb256/lakesnow.gif

and the result...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/cmb256/DSC04962.jpg

[IntotheWest]

9c in Calgary today (10c yesterday)...but not so sunny.

[Coldrsx]

im in calgary and it is pleasant out, although i am in need of a wand wash.

[big W]

Its sunny and the now is melting here in Edmonton.

[CMD UW]

Holy f*ck @ London....I forgot how much wet snow could fall out in that part of Ontario.

It's nice in Edmonton, keep melting please!

[Taller Better]

They don't call it the Snow Belt for nuttin'! ;)

[CMD UW]

/\ No they don't. I remember experiencing that during my 3 years in Waterloo.

[SteelTown]

We're still waiting for winter's wallop

By Dana Brown
The Hamilton Spectator
(Dec 12, 2006)

Whatever happened to winter?

By the middle of December, we used to be bundled up, with boots slogging through slushy streets, scarves protecting us from the chill and mittens warming our frostbitten fingers.

Now, the galoshes are at the back of the closet, the jackets are open and the mittens only pop out on occasion.

"People are now more likely to be thinking of tee times than when they're going to go skiing next," said Environment Canada senior climatologist Dave Phillips.

So far this year, Hamilton's had just 6.6 cm of snow. Thirty centimetres had fallen by this time last year. Other than a few cold days last week, the temperatures have been fairly mild and the average seasonal temperature is about a degree above normal. The forecast for the rest of the week is for highs of between six and 10 C.

The weather was warm enough yesterday that Jeremy Douglas, 21, didn't even bother to put on a coat. The McMaster environmental science student says he hates the warmer weather and has noticed an alarming change in his lifetime. "When I was a kid, snow was pretty reliable," he said, adding that it's mid-December and we're still waiting for snow to hit the ground.

But that's not unusual in these parts, says 66-year-old Bob Green, who grew up on the Mountain.

Despite memories of ice skating to school in January after snow had mixed with freezing rain and tobogganing off the roof of his family's coal shed, Green said he's not convinced it's much warmer now than when he was young.

"I think the winters were worse in the '40s," he said. "I think that every decade after that it got better."

Phillips said the area should have had its first major snowfall by now. Since the 1970s, Hamilton has received 16 per cent less snow and temperatures for the December to February period are about a degree and a half warmer.

And that's OK with Tena Karr. The 37-year-old homemaker would be happy with just a little snow at Christmas, although she worries the warmer temperatures mean something is wrong with the environment.

Roger Jacobs, a biology professor at McMaster University, said the answer to the winter temperature change probably lies somewhere in between theories which predict apocalyptic global warming and those who say the warmer weather is related to solar activity and will end in the next decade.

"We can call it a new normal," he said of the increased uncertainty.

http://www.hamiltonspectator.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=hamilton/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1165877417359&call_pageid=1020420665036&col=1014656511815

[Coldrsx]

+4 in Edmonton today...:>

[drew]

It's a pleasant -2C here in Winnipeg. Mild enough to make the roads soupy, but not enough that it would endanger our close to 100% white christmas percentage...

[harls]

I wonder if we'll have a green christmas this year.. we will if this keeps up.

http://images.orfay.com/i/photos1/2006/12/12/11/e/2/e/e2e0d40012b5437b7342db70dc119aa00_large.jpg

I doubt it'll last.

[Taller Better]

Funny, but this has become the de facto weather thread! LOL!
7c and partly cloudy in TO today.

[caltrane74]

Winter was hardcore when I was a kid.

Now we only have 2 months of real winter in Toronto. January and February.

March and December are usually pretty spring like. At least over the past 16 years or so.

[vid]

It will go 'down' to 5 in Wawa tonight. That is 20 degrees above normal.

Tundra Bay is 2 and rainy. It's like Vancouver, but without the happiness. :)