[mrherodotus]

Just to use this as an example. It appears to share a common roof, common architectual elements, and I wouldn't be suprised if it shared common water, sewer and property taxes. If we're going to be anal about it, wouldn't these qualify as -plexes or condos, even if they are in a rowhome style.

http://www.urbanohio.com/CentralOhio/Columbus/Neighborhoods/Indianola/I14.jpg




Plexes are flats. They are a different housing type. If a building has flats (apartments with all of the rooms on one floor), and each flat has an entrance that opens onto the street, as opposed to an indoor corridor, then it can be considered a plex. Condos can be any building type. What makes them condos is that while the unit is individually owned, the land around it is not. Condo owners pay a fee for the upkeep of the property.

[The Agonist]

I don't think it's insulting. I just think it's casting an impossibly wide net. And I'm not sure how you would narrow it, given that listing cities where rows are common is unavoidably subjective.

Agreed. The sensitivity of that criteria is way too high and the specificity is way too low to be of any interest.

Next up we can list every town that has at least one corner store.

[village person]

Feel free to make suggestions on how to improve the criteria.

[brickell]

Condos can be any building type. What makes them condos is that while the unit is individually owned, the land around it is not. Condo owners pay a fee for the upkeep of the property.


Which is my point. Using terms I'm familiar with, I thought row houses were mostly fee simple, where you own the land, your roof, pay your own utilities and taxes. The opposite is the condo where there are shared costs for common housing elements, taxes and insurance. Some of these pictures look more like condos to me.

This should probably be a different thread. Am I being too specific about this?

[village person]

I just revised the original post and list.

Please read the revision and tell me what you think. I haven't changed the criteria yet, but I reworded it.

I've removed those states where the housing form is widespread. I credit Cirrus with this idea. I've kept the lists from these states in the event that I need to add any of them back to the list, so no worries there.

I haven't added anything to the list yet but will when I get some more spare time.

[Exodus]

Which is my point. Using terms I'm familiar with, I thought row houses were mostly fee simple, where you own the land, your roof, pay your own utilities and taxes. The opposite is the condo where there are shared costs for common housing elements, taxes and insurance. Some of these pictures look more like condos to me.

This should probably be a different thread. Am I being too specific about this?The buildings in Detroit operate like you describe as rowhouse. The individual owners are responable for everything from the dirt to the roof to maintenence to property taxes. I know, I rented one. Of course if someone has the money and wants to by the whole building, then they can. I often question the term rowhouse when used to describe single family houses that just happen to be crammed up against one another. Of course houses are going to be in a row, but just because they are crowded against one another, does that qualify them as "rowhouses" ? When you have buildings with units lined up in a row, then that seems like that is what should be called a rowhouse, in other words you have an apartment"house" with units lined up in a "row". Going back to the individual houses that happen to be crammed against one another, check out my response on these pics on a post on the previous page.
http://www.pbase.com/step2me/image/69650366.jpg
http://www.pbase.com/step2me/image/69650450.jpg
"If the houses in the last two pics didn't have what little bit of space between them that they have, they could pass as rowhouses."

[Markitect]

^ Those cannot be considered rowhouses because they do not share a common wall between the units. Anyone who calls those rowhouses is using the term improperly.

A row of houses...yes. Rowhouses...no.

But that was precisely the point mrherodotus was illustrating when he posted those two photos. They were not being posted as examples of rowhouses.

[village person]

Just like "skyscraper" can't be applied to anything that appears to "scrape the sky," neither can "row house" (or "rowhouse," though still apparently absent from all major dictionaries as such) be applied to just any "row of houses." Nor can you call any road and street a "driveway" simply because you can drive on it. These terms have specific meanings! :)

[Markitect]

It should also be pointed out, since there seems to be a little confusion here, that building/housing types (such as a rowhouse) are a separate concept than ownership types (such as a condo).

Thus:
- someone who lives in a rowhouse can own an entire individual unit, front/back yards and all
- someone who lives in a rowhouse can rent an individual unit from a landlord
- someone who lives in a rowhouse can own an individual unit, but pay fees for upkeep of the collective things like the land, roofs, parking areas, etc.

[brickell]

For me at least, it's not a confusion of ownership type, it's a confusion of form.

Upon further reflection, I've broken it down this way. I'm far from an expert on this, so please feel free to correct me or add more terms to converstaion.

A rowhouse is a house foremost. It's shares one wall (each side) and that's it. I should be able to knock down my rowhouse and not have it affect my neighbors, except for some damage to that side wall. The other a buliding, with entrances in a rowhouse style share a whole exterior frame; front, back, roof and foundation. You would have to demolish the whole building and not just individual units.

[Markitect]

A rowhouse is a house foremost. It's shares one wall (each side) and that's it. I should be able to knock down my rowhouse and not have it affect my neighbors, except for some damage to that side wall. The other a buliding, with entrances in a rowhouse style share a whole exterior frame; front, back, roof and foundation. You would have to demolish the whole building and not just individual units.

What you've described are merely two different sub-types of rowhousing.

[mrherodotus]

What you've described are merely two different sub-types of rowhousing.

Exactly! Most of the old rowhouses found in places like Philly or NY have load bearing sidewalls. The sidewalls have notches at each floor level. Joists fit into the notches, and the floor and any interior walls rest on these joists. The front and rear walls are curtain walls. They do not support the weight of the building. When a house in a true masonry row burns, and is torn down, the other houses will continue to stand, provided the sidewalls are in good condition. There is a house around the corner from me that was once part of a row of 8, that now stands alone. Cheap, woodframed, brick veneered rowhouses usually can't do this.


Condo refers to a type of ownership and has nothing to do with building types. Condos can be detatched houses, rowhouses, plexes, or apartment buildings. Conversely, rowhouses can be condos, individually owned, rented, or chopped up into apartments, just as any attatched house can.

[Exodus]

For me at least, it's not a confusion of ownership type, it's a confusion of form.

Upon further reflection, I've broken it down this way. I'm far from an expert on this, so please feel free to correct me or add more terms to converstaion.

A rowhouse is a house foremost. It's shares one wall (each side) and that's it. I should be able to knock down my rowhouse and not have it affect my neighbors, except for some damage to that side wall. The other a buliding, with entrances in a rowhouse style share a whole exterior frame; front, back, roof and foundation. You would have to demolish the whole building and not just individual units.Wrong, One of these buildings on Pitt St. in Southwest Detroit had a unit that was damaged really bad in a fire, and that unit was torn down and the side of rest of the building was bricked over. So there are ways of knocking down a unit in a building like that and still keep the rest of the building. And isn't a rowhouse supposed to have shared/common walls between the units ?

Heres the building I've mentioned(yellowish colored), and it used to go all the way to the alley.
http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/d2d9792442da3ba162d3bb015f4db271-.jpg

[Exodus]

^ Those cannot be considered rowhouses because they do not share a common wall between the units. Anyone who calls those rowhouses is using the term improperly.

A row of houses...yes. Rowhouses...no.

But that was precisely the point mrherodotus was illustrating when he posted those two photos. They were not being posted as examples of rowhouses.I understand all of this. Reread the whole post and you will understand the point that I was trying to make, and one you just helped me make. Also read the quote I made carefully..."If the houses in the last two pics didn't have what little bit of space between them that they have, they could pass as rowhouses." Note the term "could pass", as in does not pass but according to some people they would qualify only because they would be touching one another.

[Exodus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brickell
A rowhouse is a house foremost. It's shares one wall (each side) and that's it. I should be able to knock down my rowhouse and not have it affect my neighbors, except for some damage to that side wall. The other a buliding, with entrances in a rowhouse style share a whole exterior frame; front, back, roof and foundation. You would have to demolish the whole building and not just individual units.

What you've described are merely two different sub-types of rowhousing.Exactly.

[brickell]

I still don't get it, but I guess it doesn't really matter.
Your definition of a rowhouse seems to have to do more with doors than with buildings.

[Markitect]

Your definition of a rowhouse seems to have to do more with doors than with buildings.

It has nothing to do with doors. It has to do with how the buildings are constructed, specifically the walls, which have to be built so that each individual unit is structurally independent from the adjacent units.

[EtherealMist]

So a building is a rowhouse only if is totally independent structure on its own but at the same time abutting another rowhouse?

[scguy]

Im pretty sure Augusta Georgia has one or two examples of pre WWII rowhouse but am not 100% sure. Next time Im down that way Ill check it out.

[Roanokerichmonder]

Richmond, Virginia has plenty of row houses on many blocks...This city may not be a Rowhouse city but can damn near pass as one

[brickell]

It has nothing to do with doors. It has to do with how the buildings are constructed, specifically the walls, which have to be built so that each individual unit is structurally independent from the adjacent units.

That's contrary to what was expressed previously. I'm left with the impression that the "rowhouse" is as vague as "suburban".

[Exodus]

Some aerial pics of Detroit.


http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/ddb7b482b1576704c72ab0bde02c05d0-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/3004dc2b5cd140d73a6c1ce61ea1e403-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/0244609c99ad9e38ec9dc0aedfc24032-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/78d1c3e7f091b30d8a6de775dc5a0112-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/db8789d476df823e21efc6935f62c8a3-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/d6dc3ee8634d7971bab71b1ad5556709-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/d398f4f4c8ffdfbe421466af44f9bd41-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/a1e31bbc57e235d5ece288db296cabdd-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/d969693b18047d6c9101443323e301ab-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/d35ac18265ea122507411174aa90ffda-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/f7201e3b34607f9816a6daf1fe52f23b-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/58e030367ae0f9de64cd2c0312a24262-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/a5eae3f2b314ffd71f022bafa6957994-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/a5bc79893c395f1f75eeee508540bc45-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/8fc31ae53d6829b7c6d9bbf0a4020b97-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/6ebba3a2f15a381e6239b19f7c968cbf-.jpg