[itom 987]

No more arguing in this thread or it will be closed.

[Bassic Lab]

And to the extent you can hand over your $5 as they hand you the ballot to fill in. Theres a huge push this week to signup even more members to try to swing it one way or another.

I think whats likely to be the major swing factor is how Stelmach plays this week out. While I can't see him doing what every news organization tends to think he will do, specifically dropping out of the race, how he handles the debate on Thursday may be a major indication of where his future lays.

Dinning himself is appearing quite arogant in my opinion however, especially if what they mention on QR this morning was his real reaction to being invited to an on-air debate with Morton and Stelmach... from what they said he viewed it as a waste of time. The other 2 however were more then agreeable to participate.

And oddly enough pretty much every party, except the NDP, has no internal rules against it. Liberal and Alberta Alliance party members are likely going to be voting enmasse on saturday.

I'm not going to hold my nose and vote Dinning, something about it just seems wrong. I'll just cling to the hope that an election would punish the Morton Tories and leave them out of government with no urban MLAs.

[Sammy]

Lol

[Sammy]

itom 987
Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,878


No more arguing in this thread or it will be closed.



Why Suspend Free Speech? If two people disagree let them. If it offends some, that indicates much more about there true politics than anything. It isn't like this site is of paramont importance or something, is it?

[CorporateWhore]

Can i vote through some sort of write-in if I'm not currently in Canada?

[Sammy]

As for the American argument - this has amused me - Canadians crack me up. Canadians, whether they realize it, or not, are Americans, so are Mexicans, Bolivians, Brazilians, Puerto Ricans, Dominicans etc.

Jay in Cowtown is right although I don't agree with his rationale. His point was that North America is divided into cultural and economic regions. Alberta is more tied into the the states than the rest of Canada economically. 90 percent of Alberta's trade occurs south of the border and 70 percent of of imports to Alberta are from the US.

Calgary, the land it is situtated on used to be in United States terrirtory, until James K Polk came along. Cultures in North America run North to South. T.O. has much more in common with NYC than Denver. Calgary is much more like Denver than NYC, or Regina for that matter. There are unique pionts for each area but this true of anyplace.

As far as Morton ruining the PC party - it makes me smile even more. This type of political tactic is as old one. Label your opponent as a nut, radical, racist, nazi . . . whatever, and your campaign will score some points in the polls. It works and that is why people use it. If Morton was such a nut, however, I don't think that Dinning's camp would be worried or waste thier time on him. When people read his policies or he spoke they would see that his is crazy and vote en mass for someone else. He did well in the cities and rural Alberta.

If you like the Federal conservatives you will like Morton. If you prefer big government you will like Dinning. If you like more spending, Stelmach is your man. It depends on what you want from your government. Some want less others want more.

[duper]

Sammy. He means no more personal attacks.



I think the last page pretty much sums up the problem with the Morton crowd. They think they have a monopoly on Albertan values. It is every bit as insulting as when the federal Liberals claim to be the only party that represents Canadian values.

It creates division, when a leader's job is to do the opposite.

[Waterlooson]

Alberta is more tied into the the states than the rest of Canada economically. 90 percent of Alberta's trade occurs south of the border and 70 percent of of imports to Alberta are from the US.



Not correct, it's a fine point but Ontario does even a higher percentage of its trade with the US. Plus, Ontario is tied in with US auto manufacturers "just in time" assembly. When the US decided to change the clocks at a different time this year, Ontario was basically forced to follow suit, whereas Alberta was not compelled to do this to nearly the same extent. Bottom line, Ontario is much more connected to the US economy than Alberta - not even close really.

[Sammy]

Waterloosen - re read what I wrote. I stated that Alberta is more tied to the states than the rest of Canada economically. That means that Alberta does more trade with the US than Ontario for example. I didn't mention that Ontario is tied to the states. It is a statement about Alberta, not the rest of Canada. What I wrote was correct.

[duper]

Waterloosen - re read what I wrote. I stated that Alberta is more tied to the states than the rest of Canada economically. That means that Alberta does more trade with the US than Ontario for example.

It could easily have been construed either way. I have to admit I thought that was what you were trying to say when I read it.

[Waterlooson]

It could easily have been construed either way. I have to admit I thought that was what you were trying to say when I read it.

Yeah, I guess he meant the rest of Canada taken as a whole. Then it is also true that Ontario is more tied to the US economy than the rest of Canada - including Alberta. :sly:

[duper]

^
No, what he means is that Alberta does more trade with the US than it does with the rest of Canada. He could have worded it a bit more clearly, but that's hardly an uncommon offense on this forum ;)

[Waterlooson]

^
No, what he means is that Alberta does more trade with the US than it does with the rest of Canada.

Okay, then I would challenge that right way.... he is dead wrong. Alberta does more trade with the ROC, than with the US. He has misintrepreted the trade figures..... the 90 % refers to foreign trade!

[Sammy]

Usually Canada means a whole country . . . but with the latest definition of nation, within a nation, I can see why some may be confused . . .

[Waterlooson]

Usually Canada means a whole country . . . but with the latest definition of nation, within a nation, I can see why some may be confused . . .
.... your statement was ambiguous.... but I gave it the most generous interpretation.... if you really think that 90 % of Alberta's exports (you actually said trade) go to the US, then you are even more off target than I first thought.

[Sammy]

Well I may be wrong. When I had lunch yesterday and listened to Michael Wilson list off the statisitcs of Albertas trade with the United States and the impending borders problems I assumed his facts were accurate. what is the percentage of Alberta's trade that flows to the United States so far this year?

And how is "Alberta is more tied into the states than the rest of Canada economically" ambiguous? It is a fact. Just as, you are correct in asserting that Ontario is more tied into the US than the rest of Canada, economically.

[duper]

Sammy. I'm not going to get into an editors' discussion with you. Its not relevant to the topic, anyway.


Morton is the opposite of a political leader. A political leader is supposed to help bring people together, build consensus, and guard the public's interest. Morton seems more interested in building barriers. His ramblings about protecting Alberta from Ottawa simply do not resonate, especially with an Albertan-led Federal government. There are only so many times you can play the same tune, and Morton is following the "Alberta's paranoid conservative redneck" to a t, complete with the C&W theme song.

[Sammy]

foreign trade - trade - I see you point, well taken.

[Sammy]

duper - if you read the policies Morton is suggesting what Ontario and Quebec have - the firewall was a title to a document that was aimed at protecting Alberta's rights. Part of what transpired in developing that document was for Alberta to have similar framework like Ontario and Quebec.

I am not well versed in this subject matter, though I believe it had to do with Ontario and Quebec, first nation status. How the nation status fits into the Canadian constitution anf jurisdiction issues, I am not sure. I have not read the document or know enough to offer any specifc comments.

[Kevin_foster]

RE: Free Speech? This isn't a public forum :P, it's privately owned. Moderators can shut it down when they feel like it. Believe me....

In any case, I'd hate to see Alberta take a step backwards than forwards. It's 2006, not 1979. This province doesn't need to hold it self back more than it already is.

And I laugh @ people saying Dinning is a lefty. Come on now, are you kidding me? Perhaps when compared to Morton, but compared to a Jean Cretien (or the like) he's a right winger through and through... Canada Right wing at least.

[Doug]

His ramblings about protecting Alberta from Ottawa simply do not resonate, especially with an Albertan-led Federal government.

I absolutely agree with that statement. Morton is yesterday's man on this issue. The Harper government is poised to deliver on focusing the accountabilities of the federal and provincial governments. The last thing Harper needs right now is fireworks coming out of Alberta. If the Conservative minority proves short lived, however, circumstances change.

My support of Morton is based more on his supposed commitment to reigning in out of control spending and allocating more resource revenue to the Heritage Fund. Plus, the party could use a good kick in the ass right now. If his leadership proves divisive and many old timers leave the party or the opposition becomes more competitive, that would be positive. On the other hand, he could turn out to be a complete waste of time if he obsesses on worthless issues like same sex marriage.

I've met Jim Dinning many times. I volunteered on his first campaign (Calgary Shaw) in 1986 (my high school awarded extra social studies credits to students that did so), went to high school with his nephew and have run into him many times at fund raisers etc. (last time was at a friend's BBQ in summer 05). He is very personable and great at remembering names, shaking hands and the like. At the end of the day, however, Dinning is too much of a Paul Martin style glad handler. He has been campaigning for the leadership for a decade, mostly by lobbying corporate Calgary. His positions are intensionally vague in fear of offending either side on an issue. He was even a major financial contributor to Paul Martin. His victory has seemed a foregone conclusion for so long that people have been lining up to kiss ass in hope of scoring some pork upon his ascendancy to the throne. For example, a friend's mother helped Dinning's wife get a job in hope that would help her own campaign to be appointed to the Provincial Supreme Court. Again like Paul Martin, the list of people expecting political favors is long and wide.

Dinning's ability to has cast himself as a Calgary businessman is remarkable. The reality is that he is a bureaucrat who grew up mostly in Edmonton and then worked in the provincial civil service. He even holds a Masters in Public Admin. His qualifications as a businessman are about as legitimate as those of Chretien: he used his tenure as Provincial Treasurer as a conduit into many corporate boards. Unlike Peter Lougheed, who was groomed by the Mannix family, or Ralph Klein who was the talking head for a group of Calgary businesspeople colloquially referred to as FORK (Friends of Ralph Klein), Dinning targeted downtown Calgary and not the other way around. He definitely has the support, but only tepidly so owing to downtown office tower crowd's current disinterest in provincial politics. If either Preston Manning or Gwyn Morgan had joined the race, Dinning wouldn't have stood a chance.

[Wooster]

I generally agree with your assessment of Dinning. He certainly is less than inspiring and I see the similarities between him and Martin. However, right now it is a case of picking between what michael moore would call the "evil of two lessers". Either way, I see trouble for the PCs. If Morton goes in and alienates urban Albertan sensibilities and divides the PC party and the liberals step in with as the true moderate, environmentally conscious (perhaps an alliance with the Greens), pragmatic choice in this province that could spell the end for the PCs. On the other hand, if Dinning gets in and continues the status quo, which peole are sick of, more far right support could bleed to an emerging Alberta Alliance and moderate support shift to the liberals.

[Doug]

^I still can't see the provincial Liberals making a breakthrough even with Morton leading the PC's.

[IntotheWest]

His positions are intensionally vague in fear of offending either side on an issue.

For those PC supporters, this is the biggest reason I don't like Dinning...drawing more parallels to Martin and Chretien, who did absolutely nothing for Canada's biggest issues.

The "status quo" will also continue with Dinning - who has no intention of helping to fix our ailing health care system, while we simply dump more, and more money into it. This is my biggest "fear" of Dinning...

However, I can really see how Morton is scaring others as well.

[IntotheWest]

^I still can't see the provincial Liberals making a breakthrough even with Morton leading the PC's.

As much as a liberal government scares me, I have several friends that have recently moved from Ontario, and would definitely support Liberals without even knowing the issues or policies...

I'm sure this will become more common as AB's population grows.

[lubicon]

Oddly enough, Alberta is apparently an anamoly regarding this. It has grown tremendously over the years, due in large part to interprovincial migration yet voting patterns have remained largely the same during this time. Not saying they won't change in the future, but it's definately odd that they have not changed appreciably despite many 'easterners' moving here.

[m0nkyman]

I'm sure this will become more common as AB's population grows.
This'd be balanced by the fact that the type of person who's willing to get off their duff and go to where the jobs are instead of sitting put and demanding the government change reality is less likely to vote Liberal.
:babyeat:

[Xelebes]

If Ted Morton steps more than six feet away from a classroom, he might as well be wandering around on Mars. He was almost tapped by the conservatives to serve as Clerk of the Privy Council :koko:

Another interesting note about Mr. Arch Conservative Morton is he came to Canada as a draft dodger. He is originally from Southern California.

Now that really sounds dodgy.

Anyways, I have never voted for the Progressive Conservatives. the last election was my first election that I could vote in but I didn't vote. My seat went to Kevin Taft. If I vote in the next election, I'm going for Liberal if I vote. Though I think I might be buying land in Saskatchewan by the time that happens...

[Doug]

Oddly enough, Alberta is apparently an anamoly regarding this. It has grown tremendously over the years, due in large part to interprovincial migration yet voting patterns have remained largely the same during this time. Not saying they won't change in the future, but it's definately odd that they have not changed appreciably despite many 'easterners' moving here.

That's probably due to selection bias. The interprovincial migrants that move to AB tend to be younger, ambitious and indenpendent enough to leave their friends and family behind, not exactly the demographic amenable to leftist political trappings.

[Stingray2004]

Sorry to wade into the debate, but the political animal that I am...:D

I personally would like to see a somewhat *red* tory encompassing a broad political tent win the AB PC crown. Historically, I'm thinkin' along the lines of AB's Peter Lougheed or ON's Bill Davis - just good, pragmatic, sensible administrators - no ideological baggage.

On that note, I guess Dinning provides the best fit and I also understand, FWIW, that BC's premier is also apparently silently backing Dinning in order to have a better relationship with AB as opposed to one typified as a somewhat dysfunctional one with Klein (which can only be mutually beneficial).

Morton (surprised by his result) tends to remind me of the era of BC's former Premier Vander Zalm (socially conservative, out of touch with electorate), which led many centrist Socreds to move to the Liberals.....

[walli]

Dinning is the best of the bunch. He is an excellent listener, who actually hears what people are saying. Having engaged him in a small group discussion, you realize that he actually knows what he is talking about and does not just rattle off what his handlers say to him.

I also agree with some of the other people who have stated that Dinning will not isolate Alberta from the other provinces / from the rest of Canada.

As a side note, I think the fact that he survived seperation / divorce while he was finance minister, is a real positive. He knows pain, and instead of complaining about it and making it a big story, he responded by working harder. BTW - as a result he single-handedly raised four children.

[walli]

double post.

[Boris2k7]

And it is time for a quick reflection on the Great Alberta Dynasties

From CBC:
"Albertans don't elect parties so much as anoint political dynasties. And the governments — led by some of the most colourful, popular and durable premiers in Canadian history — have tended to rule for decades. CBC Archives looks back at pivotal election campaigns in Canada's bastion of conservative populism; the glory and the gaffes, the landslides and the losers, the radio preachers and the man they just call Ralph."
http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-73-1472/politics_economy/alberta_elections/

From Various Sources:

(First and only Premier of the Northwest Territories)
0. Sir Frederick W.A.G. Haultain, 1897-1905
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/1448/haultainaq8.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/haultain.htm

Liberal Party 1905–1921

1. Alexander C. Rutherford, 1905-1910
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8767/rutherforp1.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/rutherfo.htm

2. Arthur L. Sifton, 1910-1917
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/8273/siftonvq2.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/sifton.htm

3. Charles Stewart, 1917-1921
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/608/stewarttj7.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/stewart.htm

United Farmers 1921–1935

4. Herbert Greenfield, 1921-1925
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7153/greenfietx5.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/greenfie.htm

5. John E. Brownlee, 1925-1934
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/7990/brownleeoz8.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/brownlee.htm

6. Richard G. Reid, 1934-1935
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/3199/reidcr6.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/reid.htm

Social Credit 1935–1971

7. William Aberhart, 1935-1943
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/6516/aberhartkz3.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/aberhart.htm

8. Ernest C. Manning, 1943-1968
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8138/manningfw8.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/manning.htm

9. Harry E. Strom, 1968-1971
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1810/stromae6.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/strom.htm

Progressive Conservative 1971–present

10. Peter Lougheed, 1971-1985
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9153/lougheedwm3.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/lougheed.htm

11. Donald R. Getty, 1985-1992
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/557/gettycs2.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/getty.htm

12. Ralph Klein, 1992-2006
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5091/kleincv6.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/klein.htm

13. Jim Dinning, Ted Morton, or Ed Stelmach?
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4152/n112528aiy5.jpghttp://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9224/281106mortonuj5.jpghttp://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8797/edql5.jpg

Tomorrow we will find out... :)

EDIT: BTW, we have yet to see anyone top King Ernest in terms of length in office.

Oh, and I predict that this Premier will be the PC's last

[Rusty van Reddick]

I long for the days when politicians had mustaches. Only thing I like about Vic Toews.

[Boris2k7]

I'm a little late with posting this, but it's all good...

http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/10771

Editorial: And runner-up for premier is...

Ryan Pike
E&P Editor
November 30, 2006

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9687/250gauntletegeg22006113ld9.jpg
Credit: Danny Kirk / the Gauntlet

If the first ballot of the Progressive Conservative leadership race is any indication, Alberta may soon have a surprising new premier. After a month-long campaign to replace Ralph Klein, the ballots were cast Sat., Nov. 25 with unexpected results: instead of the slam-dunk win for Jim Dinning, he wound up with only a narrow 4,000 vote lead over Ted Morton for the party leadership. Pundits were left with one nagging question: how the hell did Ted Morton end up with 25,000 votes?

With the conservative government well into its 35-year stretch as the ruling party in Edmonton, nobody would expect anything to change. Indeed, nearly all of the candidates touted the same policies and priorities, essentially presenting different versions of the same platform. Ted Morton, with his frank endorsement of change within the party, stood out like a sore thumb. With the race for King Ralph's vacant throne inevitably heating up, Dinning and Morton have readied themselves for an ideological clash of the titans. The only problem is Dinning doesn't have much of an ideology, while Morton has too much of one.

While Morton has gone on record supporting all sorts of surprising things--creating a provincial police force and pension plan, saving royalty revenues, overhauling the healthcare system, cutting taxes and a general move towards more provincial power--Dinning has sat on the fence, something Morton has called him on during interviews. And while most other candidates lavished attention upon Alberta's populous urban centres, Morton actually paid attention to the rural populations, garnering a massive number of votes as a result.

More importantly, for students at least, Morton was one of the only candidates the Gauntlet interviewed that outlined a very specific plan to improve post-secondary education beyond the generic "increase spaces and spend more money" approach advocated by the other conservatives. Perhaps Morton had an unfair advantage due to his experience as a University of Calgary professor, but he detailed a plan that involved increasing the availability of student loans and using provincial money to match private university endowments, with the aim to create a sustainable, affordable plan for the long-term.

Despite being a key to his success, Morton's honesty may well be his Achilles' heel. A self-described "true, blue Tory," Morton is an unabashed social conservative who vows to protect the traditional definition of marriage, or at least protect the rights of clergy and teachers who don't support same-sex marriage. While economic conservatism is an easy sell in such a money-loving province, social conservatism can be difficult for people to swallow when you have to spend too much time spelling it out for them. Ralph Klein's wacky off-the-cuff antics often distracted from his social leanings, while Morton's have provided for hours of debate on local talk radio.

With the second ballot looming, the battle lines have been drawn: Morton has gained the backing of the federal Conservatives and accused Dinning of being part of a party establishment run by big business. Dinning hasn't gained any large endorsements and has spent his time fear-mongering, speculating that a Morton-run party would not represent Albertans' interests. Meanwhile, third-place finisher Ed Stelmach has gained the backing of former leadership contenders Mark Norris, Lyle Oberg and Dave Hancock, and is the man Morton has singled out as his biggest threat. Political observers have noted that Stelmach's supporters--15,000 on the first ballot--will likely determine who becomes Alberta's next premier.

With the leadership of the party--and of Canada's richest province--at stake, it's up to Morton either to say the wrong thing or rise to the occasion. This dilemma isn't uncommon in recent years: the federal Conservatives won power in part because Stephen Harper was able to put a muzzle on some of the more vocal right-wing MPs. The problem is that the only person who can win (or lose) the leadership for Ted Morton is Ted Morton.

[Rusty van Reddick]

"Dinnng hasn't gained any large endorsements..." WTF? He has the support of something like 38 PC MLAs and at least one MP (Lee Richardson)- Morton has 3 MPs (pure evil like Rob Anders) and a grand total of one MLA (Hung Pham, who is a crook who was behind that Aftergood nonsense and should be in jail now).

[freeweed]

If Dinning was truly the "architect of Klein's debt-elimination program" as is claimed, he certainly has my vote.

Single best thing to happen to Alberta in my lifetime, including the two oil booms. Booms come and go, being debt-free can last a long, long time.

Guess tomorrow could be interesting. A Morton win could give ammunition to Harper on his crusade to rid the world of childless marriages.

[jeffwhit]

If Dinning was truly the "architect of Klein's debt-elimination program" as is claimed, he certainly has my vote.

Single best thing to happen to Alberta in my lifetime, including the two oil booms. Booms come and go, being debt-free can last a long, long time.

Guess tomorrow could be interesting. A Morton win could give ammunition to Harper on his crusade to rid the world of childless marriages.

The thing that surprises me most about Dinning's campaign is that his whole platform isn't based on that fact that he is the one who delivered Alberta from debt, being as this is the only only positive of the Klein "legacy."

[Thunderball]

The thing that surprises me most about Dinning's campaign is that his whole platform isn't based on that fact that he is the one who delivered Alberta from debt, being as this is the only only positive of the Klein "legacy."

There's a reason for that. Without wading into this debate... Dinning is doing a really good job in pulling the wool over people's eyes and making them think he's really, really moderate. Mentioning that he gleefully slashed everything without exception by 20% (including education and healthcare), and indirectly leading to the demolition of a much-needed inner city hospital would not help his campaign at all with that target group. Many people believed that his cuts went deeper than necessary, and were heartless, as they didn't make exception for essential services (ie: healthcare got the same 20% cut as something much more frivolous. Lets not forget that Dinning is recorded as saying he is totally opposed to SSM. I'm actually surprised that little tidbit hasn't been made public either.

Should he win... then you'll hear a lot more about it, since those super moderates will no longer be his target group, since he'll have to appeal to the Stelmach and Morton supporters too.

[freeweed]

Lets not forget that Dinning is recorded as saying he is totally opposed to SSM. I'm actually surprised that little tidbit hasn't been made public either.

Technically, so was Klein. So are most Alberta PC MLAs, or so it seems.

The differnece, though, is that Klein and most other shut their yaps about it once the federal government rules on it. Well, that and the world didn't end with the first gay couple being married. God didn't rain down fire and brimstone, and things were pretty much still OK with the world.

I disagreed with Klein on the issue, but I respected him for shutting the hell up about it once he realized the invevitable. I suspect Dinning is cut of similar cloth.

[canucklehead2]

Do polls again at 7 tonight with results about an hour later?

[Boris2k7]

^ I think so.

Tonight has the potential to turn out interesting... and not in a good way...

[rapid_business]

here we go.... going out for the evening. Some one wanna post the results with numbers so I only have to look here later tonite? grand...

[walli]

Seems to me that a lot of the new members of the party are Dinning supporters. If that is the case, his numbers should do VERY well today, as I'm hearing they sold a TON of new memberships.

That works for me. I'm all for Dinning.

[Distill3d]

10. Peter Lougheed, 1971-1985
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9153/lougheedwm3.jpg
http://www.assembly.ab.ca/lao/library/PREMIERS/lougheed.htm


http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j155/starfcuk/left_lower_jim2.jpg

i kinda see an odd resemblence. i saw it in todays Calgary Sun..

either way, i voted for Oberg in the first round, and Stelmach in the second. of the three, he sounds like the only one who has a plan and can stick to the party's agenda without resorting to smear campaigns (ie: Dinning and Morton).

[walli]

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j155/starfcuk/left_lower_jim2.jpg

i kinda see an odd resemblence. i saw it in todays Calgary Sun..

either way, i voted for Oberg in the first round, and Stelmach in the second. of the three, he sounds like the only one who has a plan and can stick to the party's agenda without resorting to smear campaigns (ie: Dinning and Morton).

Problem is, going with Stelmach may have split the right-centre vote. If that happens, US born neo-con Morton could win. He's for breaking off with the RCMP, breaking off with the Canada Pension Plan, going against elements of the charter of rights and freedoms (various minority issues) and setting up private health-care (a'la his US homeland). Think about that. An isolationist policy is never positive in the long run.

[mersar]

Results of Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership vote

December 2, 2006 - 8:48 pm
EDMONTON (CP) - Results of Saturday's Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership vote, with one of 83 constituencies reporting:
Jim Dinning 397
Ed Stelmach 306
Ted Morton 133

I'll keep updating this thread as they release more numbers.

[Boris2k7]

Now if we could just some news agencies on right now. I was surfing earlier trying to find any sign of our convention... CBC is still blithering on and on about the Liberals, CTV and Global have shows, CTV newsnet is all over the place, but usually not where we would like it to be...

I want to watch the results as they come out damnit!

[Edmonchuck]

Results of Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership vote

December 2, 2006 - 8:48 pm
EDMONTON (CP) - Results of Saturday's Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership vote, with one of 83 constituencies reporting:
Jim Dinning 397
Ed Stelmach 306
Ted Morton 133

I'll keep updating this thread as they release more numbers.

Teddy is last?? That isn't much of a surprise...

[walli]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061201/alberta_premier_061202/20061202?hub=TopStories

With 10 of 83 constituencies reporting Saturday night, the totals are Dinning with 5,705 votes (40 per cent); Ed Stelmach with 4,489 (31 per cent); and Ted Morton with 4,218 (29 per cent).

[mersar]

Early leadership vote results

Calgary Herald
Saturday, December 02, 2006

Early results from Alberta PC leadership vote:

Results from 19 constituencies reporting: Total ballots cast 26,916
Jim Dinning: 10,451
Ed Stelmach: 8,253
Ted Morton: 8,212

[walli]

Given that Teddy is sooooo .... right, I'm thinking many of the people voting for him would not have even put in a second choice. IF that happens, advantage to Dinning. IF Teddy's folks did put a second choice, it would probably have been for Stelmach.

Interesting!

[Rusty van Reddick]

If Stelmach comes in second- he wins this thing. He'll get all of Morton's second place votes.

I can't see Dinning getting a majority right now.

[walli]

If Stelmach comes in second- he wins this thing. He'll get all of Morton's second place votes.

I can't see Dinning getting a majority right now.

If Morton somehow wins, it will have been because Edmontonians couldn't find a way to support Dinning. Morton would have come up the middle.

[mersar]

Jim Dinning 13, 319
Ed Stelmach 12, 601
Ted Morton 10, 175

[walli]

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/story.html?id=f8198919-ea42-469e-92ed-c656ae2b796d

with 26 of 83 reporting:

Jim Dinning: 13,339
Ed Stelmach: 12,601
Ted Morton: 10,175

The centre right is split, but looks like there are still not enough neo-cons.

[Boris2k7]

Wow, this could be really close. Stelmach is holding in there...

[mersar]

Gotta look at the fact this is only 30,000 some votes... and they are expecting somewhere around 150,000 for this vote. Still a long way to go before anything comes obvious

[Boris2k7]

I wonder where most of the votes are coming from so far?

BTW, anyone know if there are any news stations covering this yet?

[mersar]

Thats what would be interesting to know. The source could be a huge factor in guessing at this stage.

Ed Stelmach 18, 667
Jim Dinning 17, 435
Ted Morton 14, 294

[walli]

Thats what would be interesting to know. The source could be a huge factor in guessing at this stage.

Ed Stelmach 18, 667
Jim Dinning 17, 435
Ted Morton 14, 294

Holy crud!

[Edmonchuck]

If Morton somehow wins, it will have been because Edmontonians couldn't find a way to support Dinning. Morton would have come up the middle.

What absolute crap. Really. Complete and absolute crap. :rolleyes: :koko:


Dinning has a lot of support up here too. I know many on his campaign...

Edmonton SHOWED it is not voting regional when the Edmonton candidates didn't even MAKE the second ballot. Get real.

[mersar]

Results in Saturday's final ballot in the Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership race with 43/83 polls reporting:

23, 523 Jim Dinning
22, 139 Ed Stelmach
17, 993 Ted Morton

[Rusty van Reddick]

Boris, the herald and CFCN are giving updates every few minutes.

I'll re-word what I said earlier- if Stelmach comes in FIRST he wins this thing!

[Edmonchuck]

I wonder where most of the votes are coming from so far?

BTW, anyone know if there are any news stations covering this yet?

Global broke in a couple of times...but your best bet is CHED/QR...

[mersar]

I'll re-word what I said earlier- if Stelmach comes in FIRST he wins this thing!

Or second. So long as Morton is third Stelmach wins.

660 should also be mentioning updates as times goes on since they are news only.

[Boris2k7]

Last Update: 10:17 PM - Saturday December 02

Results in Saturday's final ballot in the Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership race with 52/83 polls reporting:

28, 605 Jim Dinning
25, 182 Ed Stelmach
21, 044 Ted Morton

[walli]

Morton has conceded defeat, and has suggested that 80-90% of his guys have Ed as a second choice.

Might be too late for Dinning now.

[e909]

I will bet money Stelmach will win. It looks like Morton is #3, if that happens there is no contest, it's Stelmachs.

Nobody put Dinning #2 on a Morton ballot.

[Edmonchuck]

a horse race again...

[e909]

a horse race again...
i wouldn't even call it a race, it's over.

[Wooster]

seems like unless Dinning builds an enourmous lead in the last 30 or so polls reporting, the math is definitely in Stelmach's favour. It seems almost certain that the majority of Morton second choices will go to Stelmach.

I can't believe I'm seeing this. A week ago I hardly knew the guy's name. I assumed he was a total long shot. A real night of surprises in Canadian Politics.

Of the three he seems to be the most knowledgable about planning issues in the province. Also plans to rebate $1.5 billion/ year back to the cities. The equivilant of the education property tax. That would be a huge coup for the cities!

[e909]

seems like unless Dinning builds an enourmous lead in the last 30 or so polls reporting, the math is definitely in Stelmach's favour. It seems almost certain that the majority of Morton second choices will go to Stelmach.

I can't believe I'm seeing this. A week ago I hardly knew the guy's name. I assumed he was a total long shot. A real night of surprises in Canadian Politics.

Of the three he seems to be the most knowledgable about planning issues in the province. Also plans to rebate $1.5 billion/ year back to the cities. The equivilant of the education property tax. That would be a huge coup for the cities!
There's also the chance that Morton could build a lead to surpass Stelmach, I'm not sure what composition (rural/ruban) the reporting ridings are.


Edit: Stelmach is actually leading Dinning right now by a few hundred votes for #1.

[walli]

30169 Dinning
25576 Ed
21844 Morten

Looks like the Calgary boxes are being opened now ... look for Dinning to extend the lead.

[CorporateWhore]

I don't really care who wins, as long as it's not Morton.

[walli]

There's also the chance that Morton could build a lead to surpass Stelmach, I'm not sure what composition (rural/ruban) the reporting ridings are.


Edit: Stelmach is actually leading Dinning right now by a few hundred votes for #1.

Hey Elmo ... do a refresh.

Morton already conceded several minures ago.

Latest numbers are:

Dinning 35325
Ed 28886
Morton 24380

[Boris2k7]

EDIT: D'oh! Walli beat me to it.

LOL, is anyone else having trouble reaching Ed's site?

[walli]

Note that Morton is closer to Ed than Ed is to Dinning. IF Morton catches Ed, then Dinning has a good shot, as Ed's second choice votes are likely for Dinning.

That might be Dinning's only hope at this point.

[e909]

Hey Elmo ... do a refresh.

Morton already conceded several minures ago.

Latest numbers are:

Dinning 35325
Ed 28886
Morton 24380
You misunderstood what I said about Morton. I said if Morton is second place, Stelmach is over.. But I don't think that's going to happen, realistically.
Morton only conceded FIRST place.

[walli]

You misunderstood what I said about Morton. I said if Morton is second place, Stelmach is over.. But I don't think that's going to happen, realistically.
Morton only conceded FIRST place.

I got ya ... and I agree.

Also, previously I talked about Jim and Ed splitting the centre right, however, now that I look at it, the geographic south was the split ... Jim and Ted split it.

[e909]

I wish I could find out more about Stelmach.. I just put him as my #2 without thinking much of it. (Yeah I'm having problems with his website now)

[Boris2k7]

Would be nice to know, considering he might just become one of the most powerful leaders in Canada today.

EDIT: Yay, I got onto his site finally. Now if I can just load the policy section...

[walli]

I wish I could find out more about Stelmach.. I just put him as my #2 without thinking much of it. (Yeah I'm having problems with his website now)

He may polarize the cities with the rural areas given he is a farmer boy. That being said, the rebate to the cities helps, and that is probably how he got Edmonton (that and the fact that Dinning is from Calgary).

[Rusty van Reddick]

I wish I could find out more about Stelmach.. I just put him as my #2 without thinking much of it. (Yeah I'm having problems with his website now)

Supports public healthcare system. Doesn't oppose same sex marriage. Not a firewall guy. Seems like a decent guy.

[Boris2k7]

Supports public healthcare system. Doesn't oppose same sex marriage. Not a firewall guy. Seems like a decent guy.

Meh, those are just the 'other' policies. I want to know what he's going to do about managing our growth, and what he's going to do about the province's relationship with its big cities.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Meh, those are just the 'other' policies. I want to know what he's going to do about managing our growth, and what he's going to do about the province's relationship with its big cities.

Boris.... healthcare isn't an "other." It's as important as anything else.

Having said that, I'll admit that I don't know a hell of a lot about the guy. But he doesn't scare me.

[Boris2k7]

Ok here we go...

http://www.stelmach.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?PageId=7955

Investing in infrastructure

In our own towns and cities is where we most see the needs for improved infrastructure. Our schools, roads, parks, and health facilities are visible to us each and every day. The provincial government can work better with municipalities to address and fund their priorities. I am committed to providing new funding to all municipalities for infrastructure and services. The total municipal assistance program will be equivalent to the education property tax, and be distributed in a way that will be fair to all municipalities. The program will be phased in over three years and will provide stable, predictable funding for an initial 10-year term. Other, existing grant programs will also continue to be supported.

Catching-up on the maintenance of existing infrastructure and expand the highway system capacity are priorities as are completing the Edmonton and Calgary ring road systems using the P3 approach used to build the Anthony Henday ring road in Edmonton.

An Alberta Aviaion Strategy

There is no question that Alberta needs immediate options to reduce distances and time between centers. We can improve conveniences to passengers by better utilizing the public investment in airport infrastructure. Airport infrastructure can be used to provide immediate and cost effective options for improving commute times between hundreds of Alberta locations. Once leader, I will commission a new aviation strategy to determine how to improve the financial viability of smaller airports in handling passenger traffic. The study would take into account the integration of local municipal transportation systems.


http://www.stelmach.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?PageId=7978

Affordable Housing for Albertans with special needs

Anyone on a fixed income including seniors and those who receive assistance from the provincial government would feel the increased costs of today's economy. Many expenses are increasing and that makes it all the more important that we focus on managed growth. Those who are most in need deserve our help. Government has made some recommendations regarding social assistance rates, and I intend to review those quickly once elected as Leader and Premier of the province. Please visit the quality of life section in this FAQ for information on my specific commitment to seniors that I have made a priority in my platform.

I will address housing and infrastructure issues by establishing a task group of elected representatives, school boards, industry, health regions and the Urban Development Institute. The task group will have 45 days to propose cost effective solutions to the acute shortage of affordable housing across Alberta. We will look to maximize the use of areas where infrastructure is already in place, for example the Michener Centre in Red Deer.


Looks like Ed is also in favour of an Alberta Pension Plan

http://www.stelmach.ca/admin/contentx/default.cfm?PageId=7972

A new Investment Plan for All Albertans

A fully integrated investment plan will ensure future generations also benefit from the utilization of our non renewable resources. Albertans will have a much better picture of the expected proceeds from the sale of our energy assets once the royalty review is complete. Based on this information it will be possible and necessary to develop an investment plan that achieves our goals of being fair to future generations and diversifying the economy.

The Alberta Heritage Savings and Trust Fund was originally established to provide an income stream back to the provincial government and to fund capital projects. Albertans need to have the debate over the appropriateness of these two objectives and whether the income generated should be returned directly to Albertans or to the provincial government.

As part of an overall investment strategy for nonrenewable resource royalties, Albertans need to know about the option of creating a new Alberta pension plan. Not for the purpose of building walls around Alberta, but for building futures. Quebec has benefited greatly from their QPP and Alberta could do well with an actuarially sound plan too. A plan that is funded (with real investments) has many financial advantages that could accrue to Albertans, including:

-Intergenerational fairness. It is a way for present and future generations to participate in today's booming economic performance.
-Fairness to younger Albertans in the expected return on their contributions.
-Financial security of a plan backed with a substantial funded portion like a real pension plan not pay as you go which is unfair to future generations.
-Potential for either a decrease in contribution rates (another form of tax relief) or improved benefits to retirees, based on Albertans' priorities.
-Potential to be supplementary to the CPP.
-A side benefit to an economic development strategy that envisions a substantial growth in the financial services industry in Alberta.

I believe Albertans would benefit from a plan supplementary to the Canada Pension similar to what Quebec has in place for its citizens. Quebec, which has never part of the Canada Pension Plan, has benefited greatly from having its own program, including investments being made in the province. We can develop our own secure, supplemental pension plan that benefits all Albertans, not just those lucky enough to have a private pension.

We would use a specific percentage of energy royalties to build an Alberta Pension Plan, much like our Heritage Trust Fund. It would be built up over 10-15 years and managed by financial professionals. It's bold; it's a bit maverick; but in Alberta, we've being doing that for years. This proposal doesn't tear at the fabric of Canada; all provinces are benefiting from the economic growth that we're experiencing here in Alberta and I believe Albertans should benefit even more directly today and into the future from our booming economy.

Another benefit is that an Alberta pension plan could provide a large pool of venture capital that private companies could tap into. We cannot lose any more of these ideas leaving the province of Alberta and being commercialized somewhere else. The vision is to protect the future of our youth by keeping investment dollars in Alberta - Albertans investing in Alberta.

[Boris2k7]

Boris.... healthcare isn't an "other." It's as important as anything else.

Having said that, I'll admit that I don't know a hell of a lot about the guy. But he doesn't scare me.

Honestly, while healthcare is important, I don't see it as something that is on anyone's agenda right now.

As for SSM, well that is done and over and anyone who is bringing it up is wasting everyone's time. And I don't see firewalls as particularly relevant considering that we have a (friendly) Conservative Government right now.

[walli]

Looks like 35K votes left to be counted (23/83 left).

[Jay in Cowtown]

Damn it... I was really looking forward to getting pulled over by Teddy's "Alberta Provincial Patrol"

[freeweed]

Can't say I have any issues with Ed's platform. I like the pension plan idea, so long as it doesn't turn into another money sink (ie: general revenue, and micromanaged to the point of 10,000 government workers pushing paper).

Kinda disappointed he doesn't mention public transit anywhere. Calgary (and I assume Edmonton) NEEDS several billion invested into transit NOW just to keep up with current demand and recent growth. After watching just how poorly this city handles a small snowfall, I shudder to think of us in 5 years, with possibly 20% more population, with a real snowstorm. We'll all be sleeping in our offices for a couple of days.

Very much a dark horse, and he looks primed to take it. Interesting times indeed.

[Boris2k7]

Can't say I have any issues with Ed's platform. I like the pension plan idea, so long as it doesn't turn into another money sink (ie: general revenue, and micromanaged to the point of 10,000 government workers pushing paper).

Kinda disappointed he doesn't mention public transit anywhere. Calgary (and I assume Edmonton) NEEDS several billion invested into transit NOW just to keep up with current demand and recent growth. After watching just how poorly this city handles a small snowfall, I shudder to think of us in 5 years, with possibly 20% more population, with a real snowstorm. We'll all be sleeping in our offices for a couple of days.

Very much a dark horse, and he looks primed to take it. Interesting times indeed.

I agree. The need for transit investments RIGHT NOW is absolutely CRITICAL if we want to develop a Sustainable, Green Alberta.

[walli]

Last few were pretty good for Eddy. Seems to be an anyone but Dinning story, simply because he is from Calgary. Also, the few numbers I saw in Calgary were not as skewed to Jim as the Edmonton ones were skewed to Eddy. The Calgary ones had a lot for Teddy.

73/83 polls
Jim - 44562
Ed - 36688
Teddy - 31763

Note - with the run-rate, looks like only about 120K votes, and not 160K to 200K as some has suspected. Not sure why more did not show.

[freeweed]

I agree. The need for transit investments RIGHT NOW is absolutely CRITICAL if we want to develop a Sustainable, Green Alberta.

True. But even taking the traditional view, and thinking Green == hippie scum (:P ) - it's just a necessity. Unless the city plans to pave over the Bow and fill downtown with 20-level parkades, there's just no way to cram this many people into the downtown core every day.

But yeah, going one step further and actually worrying about the environment and whatnot - we're in for a world of hurt if we don't do something soon.

Yes, I'm royally pissed off that it's taking 1.5 hours to get home some days all of a sudden. Maybe I *should* live in a box downtown - although most of the commute time is stuck within a couple of kilometres from downtown. The burbs are still smooth sailing on the bus, but the immediate vicinity of downtown is turning into hell.

[The Chemist]

Wouldn't this be funny if both the Liberals AND the provincial PCs both voted in nice guys who were never expected to finish first? :)

The more I hear about Ed, the more I like him. Thank god people realized that Morton is precisely the WRONG man for Alberta, though :tup:

[Boris2k7]

Well, for one thing, you would think that bringing back Regional Planning Commissions, establishing growth boundaries, investing in public transit, etc... would all look nice to rural voters who are seeing their properties annexed and suburbs sprawling out over the countryside...

[Boris2k7]

Last Update: 11:21 PM - Saturday December 02

Results so far in the Alberta Progressive Conservative leadership race with 74/83 polls reporting:

46, 001 Jim Dinning
38, 597 Ed Stelmach
32, 373 Ted Morton

[walli]

I'm wondering how many voters simply did not put a second choice, and only put an X on the box they wanted. Wondering how much that might come into play. Of the three, i'd suspect Morton's folks may have done this the most. Could half have possibly done this?

[Policy Wonk]

I like Stelmach's transportation policy - Alberta has already lost too many airports, unfortunately some of his plans would run smack into federal jurisdiction where they would face indifference or worse, airport authorities such as that in Edmonton.

However if Stelmach is elected he might face the same fate as Harry Strom who was a comprimise between borderline white supremacists and the old school pre-Manning social credit types. He won by default but couldn't really garner much support inside or outside of the party and that opened the door to Lougheed.

[walli]

Jim - 46270
Ed - 40093
Ted - 32630