[STLgasm]

Those of us who frequent the forum know that Detroit is on a roll in terms of downtown development. The revitalization has spread to peripheral districts such as Brush Park, Corktown, New Center and Midtown. But are the more average neighborhoods in Detroit City seeing any new progress? I would love to see pictures of neighborhood infill developments/rehabs in the lesser-talked about sections of Detroit. Please don't show vinyl-sided suburban houses because that would just depress me. Certainly there must be some old houses and commercial districts that are seeing renewal, right?

[LMich]

Check out Model D (http://www.modeldmedia.com/default.aspx) online magazine regularly as they also cover development in the outer neighborhoods.

[Exodus]

The Westside has "Newberry Estates", which btw is named after the school in that area and the very school I attended back in the 70's. They are retro fitted single family homes that are very similar to the early 20th century craftsmen homes in that area. They are built or being built on vacent lots as infill while many of the original homes have or are under renovation. This project extends from 32nd St. to 28th St. and between Jackson St. and Buchanan Ave. BTW, Newberry school had a short cameo in the first Beverly Hills Cop Movie.

Highland Park is also building infill homes similar to this. Then you have the area around St. Annes Church between Corktown and Mexicantown that is doing pretty much the same. Also the southwest side along Vernor is seeing several renovation projects. Check out live local, and you will see some of these homes already built.

[Michi]

I try to keep a comprehensive Detroit Development focus in the City Compilation forum, but admitedly, it's more of the bigger projects.

Brush Park Area
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060236.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060231.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060230.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060229.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060228.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060226.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060224.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060223.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060221.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060219.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060215.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060211.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060212.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060206.jpg

Grinnell Place, Corktown
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060132.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060237.jpg

http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060242.jpg

Some good progress has been made on Willy's Overland, including new paint.
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060245.jpg

Nine on Third is almost complete
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060248.jpg

I also need an update on MidMed Lofts. The new structure is just about complete and closed in.
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060259.jpg

I know all of this is in downtown's shadow. I have yet to really get out into the neighborhoods.

There's a lot going on in Midtown and New Center. Jonna Detroit Loft conversions, Research Lofts, Ferry Street infills, 55 W. Canfield, among others.

I'll have to do a comprehensive update pretty soon.

[JivecitySTL]

^Very impressive! In case you haven't noticed, STLgasm and I have a soft spot for Motown. What a great city!

[LMich]

There's quite a bit of infill going on in the southwest side, as well as numerous examples of affordable, vinyl-sided, suburban-tract housing going up all over the city.

[hudkina]

Most of what is being built isn't of the best quality as it is meant to be low-income housing. There are several neighborhoods where market-rate housing is being developed and older housing is being renovated such as in Southwest Detroit the West Village, or Rivertown.

Here are a few pictures I have taken over the last few years:

Rivertown
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/003.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/004.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/005.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/006.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/007.jpg

East Side/West Village
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/008.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/009.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/010.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/011.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/012.jpg

Southwest Detroit
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/013.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/014.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/015.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/016.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/017.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/018.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/001.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/022.jpg
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/023.jpg

Woodbridge Estates
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/rowhouses/021.jpg

As you can see some of the housing is hideous, but a lot of it isn't too bad.;)

[apbest]

STLgasm, in response to ur original post, development in Brush Park/Midtown probably proceded downtown, which is only beginning to catch in terms of overall relative number and magnitude of projects

however, the best example of quality infill I can think of outside of greater downtown is in west/east village

[STLgasm]

Thanks so much for the great info/pictures. What a beautiful city. I'm so happy to see those old buildings being reclaimed. It's the historic character of Detroit that sets it apart from newer boomtowns such as Atlanta or Houston. Those cities would kill to have even fraction of the building stock that survives in Detroit.

[illmatic774]

I am dying for the rehabilitation to reach the Linwood and Dexter area, south of the more upscale/middle class Petoskey-Otsego area. It's where I grew up.

I would also like to see some attention focused on "New Detroit". The newer gridded area. I know they have the Herman Gardens project, which will be huge. There isn't too much major development over there that I hear about however. Just a couple fill ins scattered around. Chaldeantown is starting to see redevelopment I heard.

Come on though, show us some of the lower income developments, they are Detroit too.

[Michi]

^I agree with the Dexter/Linwood area. Socially, however, that's not the greatest area right now though. It's got a lot of growing up to do.

On a sad note, on my bike ride home from work today, I noticed the fist significant chunk taken out of the top floor of the Detroit Commerce Building...the historic highrise being demolished for the Book Cadillac parking monstrosity. :( I cried.

(The building on the lower right with the arched windows)
http://www.downtownmotown.com/washington%20blvd/capitol%20park%20washington/wash%2021.jpg

11.29.06
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/DetroitDevelopment/2006_1129DCBDemo11_29_060004.jpg

Oh, the irony. :(
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/DetroitDevelopment/2006_1129DCBDemo11_29_060006.jpg

[hudkina]

I really don't see all that many new developments in the poorer neighborhoods. There is a lot of newer housing in the North Corktown area that is of really poor quality but I didn't take any pictures as it was almost too embarassing.;)

[illmatic774]

Yeah, I heard that my old hood is in shamblesright now. I remember hearing about that quintruple shooting of all innocent people within the span of 10 minutes. People will say they are rare, but I hear about innocents being shot all the time. :hell: :(

[hudkina]

They are rare, it's just that EVERY time it occurs the news jumps on it like a rabid dog. I have absolutely no statistics, but I'd guess that less than 10% of all shootings involve an innocent bystander. (I'd even bet it's closer to 1% or 2%.)

[LMich]

I find it almost funny, but mostly sad, that many people still think that random shootings of bystanders make up a significant amount of Detroit's (or any America inner-city's) murders. For instance, the random shooting spree in the Dexter-Linwood area a week or two ago was just as much a shock to that neighborhood (a pretty violent neighborhood) as most anywhere else. Random shootings just aren't a regular (or even near-regular) event anywhere.

[illmatic774]

While not a significant amount of them, its still way too much. 5 innocent bystanders shot in 10 minutes is way too much. I'll guarantee that 50 innocent people are shot annaully in Detroit. Not necessarily murdered, but shot nonetheless. You can't deny that its way too much. You want my source? I can't actually indisputably prove it to you, but i'll say thats an educated guess.

[hudkina]

But aren't there usually over 1000 shootings each year? Your estimate would be less than 5% of all shootings.

[Exodus]

This is just a few examples, and these pics are a little old, so many more homes just like these
have been built on these sites since these pics were taken.

Newcenter townhomes off of Woodward Ave. They did a good job retro fitting these, they look
a lot like historic rowhouses imo.
http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/e5df59148a5ce551e3d38904856d4b8b-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/d254b8615b47ec106590a53dc7c74ffe-.jpg

Midtown arpartments between 2nd & 3rd Streets. Another good job with the retro fitting, just
compare to the historic apartment building on the right corner.
http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/1de5e7cb0066a2a19e6b566f82acc81e-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/bfbb617ef86fc541f2b4f9df6f036210-.jpg

Woodbridge Estates: This is part of the old Jeffries projects. Most of the highrises have been
demolished, and the three left have been renovated into private apartments/condos. These
townhomes fit in pretty good imo. Not 100% historic looking, but better than most suburban
townhomes.
http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/bebcf672f32678e1f5eee948fca906de-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/9a8fa649e085bd19f0e22bd6e6e68248-.jpg

St, Anne Homes: Very similar to the old craftsmen homes of the area.
http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/45/6d15e3afa9f96ae04fe192195562279c-.jpg

http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/0df56e10f961e85d862f1468505ccfa7-.jpg

Newberry Estates: This infill area covers 32nd St. to 28th St. and Michigan Ave. to Buchanan Ave.
This particular pic is the heart of the development on 29th St. The school is Newberry Elementary,
which I attended when I was a kid. The house with the red dot is one of the two houses I lived in on
that street. I was about 2 - 3 years old when I lived there, and I've noticed it's been renovated. Also
these homes fit in pretty damn good with the older craftsmen homes too.
http://steelflame.zoto.com/img/original/b1459ac5cdac239e6ec16d241d96f78b-.jpg

[Exodus]

bump

[DizzyEdge]

I try to keep a comprehensive Detroit Development focus in the City Compilation forum, but admitedly, it's more of the bigger projects.

Brush Park Area
.
.
.
I know all of this is in downtown's shadow. I have yet to really get out into the neighborhoods.

There's a lot going on in Midtown and New Center. Jonna Detroit Loft conversions, Research Lofts, Ferry Street infills, 55 W. Canfield, among others.

I'll have to do a comprehensive update pretty soon.

Seeing how dilapidated some of these houses are yet have rehabilitation signs out front is amazing. Inspires me to get into the business of restoring these gems. It's sad though how many burnt out shells appear to be in the neighbourhood

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=+detroit&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=42.344859,-83.051512&spn=0.01088,0.025792&t=h&om=1

[apbest]

dont forget, Google maps arent exactly brand new...if you look downtown for example alot of pre-superbowl projects like the YMCA for example are still in earlier stages of construction...I think those pictures are probably at least 2 years old...lots is happening but alot will also happen in brush park in the way to removing those massive multi-block vacant lots

[DizzyEdge]

dont forget, Google maps arent exactly brand new...if you look downtown for example alot of pre-superbowl projects like the YMCA for example are still in earlier stages of construction...I think those pictures are probably at least 2 years old...lots is happening but alot will also happen in brush park in the way to removing those massive multi-block vacant lots

That's great news. It's amazing that some of Detroit's neglected ruins are more impressive than the mint condition houses we try to save in Calgary, although our city is probably one of the few around where people can't pay enough to live in the innercity, most cities are still recovering from the exodus of the 50s...gorgeous houses in Brush Park, would love to see the area in a few years.

Also if you don't mind I'm using a couple of photos as examples to our group, developers here say buildings aren't restorable if they have some peeling paint or a missing roof shingle or two...I think the photos on this thread prove otherwise.

[hudkina]

Here's an example of an extreme case of neglect being beautifully restored:

Before:
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/brushpark/020.jpg

After:
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060226.jpg

And it's not even done yet. I'm sure when we see the finished product complete with landscaping, etc. it'll look even more amazing.

[DizzyEdge]

Here's an example of an extreme case of neglect being beautifully restored:

Before:
http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/brushpark/020.jpg

After:
http://downtownmotown.8k.com/Detroit%20September/2006_0929AroundDetroit9_29_060226.jpg

And it's not even done yet. I'm sure when we see the finished product complete with landscaping, etc. it'll look even more amazing.

That's utterly amazing, and to think the city here has neglected to fight for a building because some of the bricks were sandblasted, where the building is otherwise completely sound.

How would you rate the ratio of restoration companies and money to restore, like would more buildings be renewed if there were more people doing the work, is it a glut of people able to do the renos, but not a lot of $$ being spent to hire them?

Also, what would the pre restoration and post restoration purchase price be for a site like that?

[LMich]

Conceptual site plan for lower Brush Park for reference:

http://www.crosswindsus.com/michigan/detroit_woodward_place/site_plan.htm

Does anyone have photos of the before and after of the Brownstones on John R. developement that Crosswinds renovated in Brush Park? That's another impressive renovation.

EDIT: Well, I found the "after"

http://images.newhomesource.com/images/homes/Cross1310/1148192.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

Conceptual site plan for lower Brush Park for reference:

http://www.crosswindsus.com/michigan/detroit_woodward_place/site_plan.htm



Thanks for that, so a mixture of affordable rowhouse and restored mansions.

Are most of the mansions being restored as single family as original, or split into apartments/condos?

[LMich]

They are being split, mostly, into individual condo units. The example Hudkina posted, in particular, is a split into three or four units, I believe. It's kind of ironic, because the density of the neighborhood will probably greater than it was in the past.

[DizzyEdge]

They are being split, mostly, into individual condo units. The example Hudkina posted, in particular, is a split into three or four units, I believe. It's kind of ironic, because the density of the neighborhood will probably greater than it was in the past.

This may sound like a silly question, but is it safe to drive/walk around the ring of abandoned victorian neighbourhoods in Detroit? Obviously you could be safely in white bread suburbia and still get run over by a soccer mom, but I might be worth making a trip next time I'm in that part of the continent to tour ruinous areas.

[hudkina]

It's safe to go anywhere in Detroit unless you're looking for trouble. Granted, like in any city there is no guarantee you won't be a victim of crime. Granted, the majority of crime in the Midtown area involves people breaking into cars parked on the streets. Midtown in particular is fine to walk around. The neighborhood is completely surrounded by freeways and is split up into six different areas all seeing huge amounts of renovations and infill.

The neighborhoods are: Brush Park (which is seeing all of the restoration seen above), Cass Park (which is seing some renovation, but is still Midtown's worst neighborhood), Arts Center (where you'll find the Detroit Institute of Art, the Science Center, the African American History Museum, the Detroit Historical Museum, the College for Creative Studies, and several art studios and galleries), Detroit Medical Center (where you'll find Michigan's largest collection of hospitals including many specialty hospitals), Orchestra Place (where you'll find the home of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra as well as some of Midtown's best-preserved historic neighborhoods, including West Canfield and Warren-Prentis), and lastly Wayne State University (where you'll find Michigan's third largest university after UofM and MSU, with more than 30,000 students on one of the nation's best urban campuses)

Here's a map:

http://www.detroitmidtown.com/05/image_lib/midtownmap.jpg

Wayne State University is in the upper left, Arts Center is in the upper right, Orchestra Place is in the middle left, Detroit Medical Center is in the middle right, Cass Park is in the lower left, Brush Park is in the lower right.

[DizzyEdge]

^ that's great!
'Burbs are for suckers.
Do you know any of the companies who are at the forefront of taking those shells of a house and turning them into the gems I've seen in this thread?

[hudkina]

Crosswinds is the company renovating most of the mansions in Brush Park, but there are some private individuals and others that have done a few. Each mansion is being renovated at a financial loss, but the city demanded the company renovate them alongside building the new rowhouses in the neighborhood.

The company is renovating the homes so they can build these around them:
http://www.downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/brushpark/002.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

Crosswinds is the company renovating most of the mansions in Brush Park, but there are some private individuals and others that have done a few. Each mansion is being renovated at a financial loss, but the city demanded the company renovate them alongside building the new rowhouses in the neighborhood.


Did Crosswinds have any expertise at renovating 120 yr old mansions, or was it more 'a reno is a reno' ?
I'm thinking one of my dream jobs would be to get a disastrously run down mansion like that and see the project through to the amazing end result.

Are the rowhouses subsidized/low income housing? and would the mansion apts be as well?
-Chris

[LMich]

No, these are all market-rate, and rather on the high-end of things, at least for the area. And, I don't think Crosswinds has had any extensive background in renovation. In fact, there specialty seems to be suburban tract housing. Now, there is some senior housing that has been developed in Brush Park, but not by Crosswinds, I don't think.

Here are other renovation examples:

The Inn at Winder
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/77/179480564_2fd9ca9c71_o.jpg
James Garrett

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/121/315124105_0167be5dc4_b.jpg
Erik Twight - http://www.flickr.com/photos/30657479@N00/

Lamar Lofts
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/84622326_6ea33be034_b.jpg
Girl.in.the.D - http://www.flickr.com/photos/girl-in-the-d/

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/40/101011571_5adc96fa4d_b.jpg
rustdetroit - http://www.flickr.com/photos/rustdetroit/

Ransom Gill (during reconstruction)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/99857038_7bfce22231_b.jpg
rustdetroit - http://www.flickr.com/photos/rustdetroit/

And, there are many still waiting. Will they survive? Only time will tell.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/77/179480565_12abda2b01_o.jpg
DecoJim - http://www.flickr.com/photos/18963937@N00/

Aerial
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/10/11312876_fa6095a604_o.jpg
Andrew In Windsor - http://www.flickr.com/photos/aiw/

[Michi]

The Inn at 97 Winder is one of my all-time favorites! :)

http://www.theinnat97winder.com/

[DizzyEdge]

Aerial
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/10/11312876_fa6095a604_o.jpg
Andrew In Windsor - http://www.flickr.com/photos/aiw/

Thanks for that one, I've been looking at the area on google maps but I believe the photos are a couple of years old, and it's nice to get a proper perspective

[LMich]

The google satellite photo isn't much older, if at all, than the photo shown. The truth is that like most of the neighborhood directly adjacent to downtown, Brush Park is now largely a loose patchwork of a few houses/buildings scattered here and there, though things are stating to fill back end. The aerial I showed is just a little bit more flattering than the direct overhead view showing how much the inner-city has disappeared.

[DizzyEdge]

The google satellite photo isn't much older, if at all, than the photo shown. The truth is that like most of the neighborhood directly adjacent to downtown, Brush Park is now largely a loose patchwork of a few houses/buildings scattered here and there, though things are stating to fill back end. The aerial I showed is just a little bit more flattering than the direct overhead view showing how much the inner-city has disappeared.

You're right, I checked google again, and you can't really get a feel how the new developments look, all you can see is the empty spaces and the fact 1 in 5 structures seem to be burnt out/have no or little roof. Lots of neigbourhoods to the north just as sparse I see.. most might see that as blight, I see it as opportunity ;)

[LMich]

The good thing is that every single month, the city makes significant headway in filling those empty lots and renovating the empty structures that remain. Most of what was too far gone to make feasible without extraordinary time and wherewithal for their time, has been demolished, so its largely a blank canvas being filled in. Many of these are the most decimated neighborhoods of Detroit, and reside in the "old city" within the Grand Boulevard Loop of neighborhoods. Detroit easily fell harder than any other of the country's major cities, but, as you can tell, even with the loss Detroit's still left with enough significant historic structures to fill the inner cities of most cities in this country, a lot lost, but much left to work with.

[hudkina]

Detroit may have lost a lot, but it hasn't lost nearly as much as most other cities, at least in terms of what it has left. Good luck trying to find anything like Brush Park in Houston or Dallas or anywhere. Detroit's decline is what saved Brush Park. If Detroit had the money and demand to demolish the neighborhood in the 70's and 80's it would have done so. The city may have lost 100 or more of the historic homes in the neighborhood, but 30 or 40 beautifully restored mansions is better than a crappy warehouse district similar to what you find surrounding many other downtowns.

[illmatic774]

If anywhere else were truly saved due to Detroit going to shit, it would be Woodbridge.

[hudkina]

Most cities have neighborhoods like Woodbridge, but few have anything like Cass Park or Brush Park. Even much of northern Midtown has seen the urban renewal in such areas as the DMC and Wayne State University.

[UglymanCometh]

Aerial
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/10/11312876_fa6095a604_o.jpg
Andrew In Windsor - http://www.flickr.com/photos/aiw/

Hey! You can actually see my complex in this photo!

[UglymanCometh]

Most cities have neighborhoods like Woodbridge, but few have anything like Cass Park or Brush Park. Even much of northern Midtown has seen the urban renewal in such areas as the DMC and Wayne State University.

WSU, as we all know, has saved Midtown. Period. The cultural, medical, and even social institutions have been buoyed to some extent by the WSU juggernaut (33k students? geez...)

Woodbridge is a direct recipient of WSU's investment into the city. That's our unofficial college neighbourhood (that and the area directly south of campus, which is like a denser Woodbridge... think "Queens, NY - Detroit style")

[hudkina]

I'm not saying WSU is bad, in fact I'd rather have a Midtown with WSU and the DMC than a Midtown that looks like Brush Park. All that I'm saying is that Detroit's decline is what saved Brush Park from the wrecking ball.

[LMich]

It's what saved the historic left in most of the inner-city, but at a terrible cost, of course. I'm not going to say for a minute that having these still standing to be renovated is worth that cost, though, but if we are to pull any nuggets of goodness from this, I guess that's one of them.

[mrherodotus]

Bump!

[UglymanCometh]

I'm not saying WSU is bad, in fact I'd rather have a Midtown with WSU and the DMC than a Midtown that looks like Brush Park. All that I'm saying is that Detroit's decline is what saved Brush Park from the wrecking ball.

Oh, we definitely agree....

I just can't help to wonder what Midtown would look like if more of the old apartment buildings were still existing, especially in Cass Park. A drive down 2d Av near campus (in fact, a couple of streets around campus) reminds me of Brooklyn or Queens.

Well.... maybe Yonkers. :D

[cabasse]

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8370/brushcz1.jpg

(me)

[Exodus]

They are being split, mostly, into individual condo units. The example Hudkina posted, in particular, is a split into three or four units, I believe. It's kind of ironic, because the density of the neighborhood will probably greater than it was in the past.Kind of a shame the mansions aren't being restored back to individual homes. They would be some grand homes if they were. My dad lived in the Cass corridor when he was a kid, and he said it was very crowded. He even remembers how midtown was before much was destroyed due to the DMC and freeways. he said it was mostly apartment buildings and residential back then. It's kind of a shame the area lost so much of its community.

[LMich]

Mansion usage so close to downtown is out of character for the area, and really has been since at least the late 1920's. So, I don't have any problem with them dividing some of these residences into condos or apartments, at all. In fact, this puts the zoning more in line with what an inner-city hood should probably zoned for. Some, have actually been divided into multi-family housing for decades, now.

[UglymanCometh]

Mansion usage so close to downtown is out of character for the area, and really has been since at least the late 1920's. So, I don't have any problem with them dividing some of these residences into condos or apartments, at all. In fact, this puts the zoning more in line with what an inner-city hood should probably zoned for. Some, have actually been divided into multi-family housing for decades, now.

Agreed. Historically, the sprawl, low-rise, medium-density started right outside of Downtown. It was never a big city, just a city of neighbourhoods (suburbs) that never formed a true cohesive bond, a la Toronto.

[LMich]

I wouldn't go that far. Brush Park is an anamoly. Subsequent development actually became denser, later on, as you get further north of Brush Park with a few exceptions. There is a myth that keeps being perpetuated that Detroit wasn't 'born' until 1920. It may have not been huge (i.e. New York-sized), but it's been a major American city since at least the Civil War. Inner-city Detroit was filled with multi-family housing up until the urban renewal disasters of last mid-century, and Brush Park probably stuck out more, then, than it does, now.

Ignore the rape of the community known as the Brewster and Frederick Douglass Projects, and take a look at the surrounding neighborhood. This is looking northwest kind of hover over Fisher and Chrysle meet, downtown:

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?sid=4d50acbeb8c3e6904f3bbe153cabc467&med=1&q1=Brewster&rgn1=vmc_ti&c=vmc&ox=0&oy=0&lastres=1&res=1&width=750&height=612&maxw=1500&maxh=1225&subview=getsid&lasttype=boolean&view=entry&viewid=54274&entryid=x-54274&cc=vmc&quality=1&resnum=7&evl=full-image&image.x=301&image.y=301

[hudkina]

A better example:

http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/1920s/001.jpg

[UglymanCometh]

*le sigh*

that's what my neighbourhood used to look like before expressways and projects used it like a cheap hooker. :(

[hudkina]

It's terrible. BTW, the very southern portion of this picture is where you'd find the Fisher while the Chysler runs along the middle right of the picture. The street that is closest to the center of the image is St. Antoine and the next street over was turned into the expressway. You can see the Carlton on the left edge of the picture. It just goes to show that even though Brush Park started out as a simple, wealthy Victorian neighborhood it became a dense inner-city neighborhood within a few decades. Does anyone know what the name of the street that the Chysler Freeway replaced? I know that the next street over is Rivard and after that is Russell, but I don't know what that other street was called. At the river the street is called Schweizer Place, but I have a feeling that was only given recently...

[UglymanCometh]

It's terrible. BTW, the very southern portion of this picture is where you'd find the Fisher while the Chysler runs along the middle right of the picture. The street that is closest to the center of the image is St. Antoine and the next street over was turned into the expressway. You can see the Carlton on the left edge of the picture. It just goes to show that even though Brush Park started out as a simple, wealthy Victorian neighborhood it became a dense inner-city neighborhood within a few decades.

St. Antoine sounds familiar... :D :cheers:

[hudkina]

For some reason my website is down tonight...

And it's back...

[Michi]

I-75 replaced the Hastings Street corridor. It was the epicenter of Blackbottom and the black culture and heritage that existed in Detroit for so long. If it still existed today, it would probably be one of the top tourist destinations in the country. There was a TON of history there that sadly, all you can do with it now is drive over it at 70 mph as you head downtown or to Toledo.

The Fisher replaced Vernor Street.

[LMich]

Don't forget the Lodge and Fisher taking out Chinatown, cutting Corktown in half. The Poletown plant, etc...

Yes, Detroit, backwards in urban planning since, well, its been a city, just about. :)

[Exodus]

I should know this, but did Mexicantown flourish after the freeways, or did it just get lucky ?

[LMich]

After, but it sure wasn't because of the freeways. It's grown in spite of I-75. In fact, it seems that Southwest Detroit (at least parts of it) over its existence exists because of the tenacity of whatever wave of immigrants happen to find it, through the years, because it has never been a very conventionally attractive area.

[UglymanCometh]

After, but it sure wasn't because of the freeways. It's grown in spite of I-75. In fact, it seems that Southwest Detroit (at least parts of it) over its existence exists because of the tenacity of whatever wave of immigrants happen to find it, through the years, because it has never been a very conventionally attractive area.

You mean that you've never considered Delray a desirable neighbourhood? :D

[Exodus]

Outside of Delray, I don't think S.W. Detroit is that unattractive. It seems to be intact more than a lot of neighborhoods. I think it's actually overlooked too often and has potential.

[LMich]

It's not a dig at the neighborhood, but it wasn't ever very conventionally attractive. It wasn't built to be, but there is nothing wrong with that fact. The southwest has always been, largely, an industrial corridor. Again, I think this maginifies the tenaciousness of the immigrant populations who've moved through the area over its long history. They made residential areas work where quite a few propobably wouldn't have, conventionally and otherwise. This is a compliment to the area.

[Suburban Lou]

Don't forget the Lodge and Fisher taking out Chinatown, cutting Corktown in half. The Poletown plant, etc...

Yes, Detroit, backwards in urban planning since, well, its been a city, just about. :)

You have never heard of St. Louis then?:frog:

[LMich]

Oh, I've heard of and been to St. Louis, and while that city experienced a lot of the things Detroit went through, it's my opinion from my observations that its significantly more intact, physically, than Detroit in most parts. That almost certainly has to do with it being built more densely (i.e. its a whole lot easier to tear down an individual single-family home, than a row of houses where many have always been occupied.)

[hudkina]

I think Detroit was too overzealous on being the city of the future similar to how cities such as Atlanta, Charlotte, and Phoenix are today. When they were tearing down those "ghettos" and "slums" and replacing them with modern transportation and housing surrounded by parkland, they didn't realize they were tearing down the very urban fabric that would be most sought after decades later.

[Xing]

*le sigh*

that's what my neighbourhood used to look like before expressways and projects used it like a cheap hooker. :(

Sometimes, with a good eye, you can find a decent, cheap, hooker.

[STLgasm]

A better example:

http://downriverdetroit.net/waynecounty/detroit/1920s/001.jpg

Are any of these residential blocks still intact? If so, does anyone have pictures? I've seen Brush Park, but I'd like to see current photos of the less remarkable blocks that are visible from this picture.

[LMich]

That looks to be looking north (northwest) over what would be, today, the near eastside, one of the most devastated areas of the city. This view, today, would look very patchy, more patchy than your average neighborhood.

[hudkina]

The majority of that area has been replaced by housing projects, freeways, large medical campuses, and low-income apartment complexes. There aren't any blocks that remain fully intact though there are a few streets such as Kirby St or Erskine St that look somewhat similar to what the neighborhood did back then. Though even Kirby St was chopped in half by the College for Creative Studies.

Here is an ariel of what the area looks like today:

http://www.downriverdetroit.net/after.jpg

As you can see, not much of the original layout exists anymore...

[LMich]

Thanks for the aerial. For some reason, I was thinking it was a little further east.

[STLgasm]

I feel like splitting my wrists.

[Exodus]

Between the mid to late 40's Detroit had close to 15000 people per square mile, and Highland Park had over 23000 per square mile. Assuming Highland Park has 2.5 square miles of area, if it has less than that it would have even been denser. It's a shame how much has been emptied out.

[hudkina]

Hamtramck and Highland Park used to have densities around 30,000 ppsm near their peaks. Now Highland Park has about 1/5th that density and Hamtramck has 1/3th that density. However, a lot of that has to do with shrinking family sizes. Hamtramck doesn't have any abandoned neighborhoods, but each housing unit has less people. For instance, a house that once held ten people, now only holds two. Highland Park does have a few abandoned neighborhoods and much more vacant lots than Hamtramck, but the loss in density has more to do with smaller family sizes than it does with the loss of built environment.