[Top Of The Park]

Are shopping centers still as popular in your city or are some like in the Denver/Boulder area transforming into something new. In Lakewood, the former 2 level Villa Italia Mall has been transformed into "The BelMar Town Center". New stores and housing mix, yet with an old town plaza feel. Southglenn Mall is transforming into "The Streets at Southglenn" and in Boulder the old Crossroads Mall is becoming "29th Street".

Yet many indoor Malls are doing very well. Flatiron Crossing, Park Meadows and The Cherry Creek Mall are all well over a million and a half sq ft and are very popular. Colorado Mills a newer mall out west has never reached its potential. Some of the older malls are showing signs of old age even though some have had recent facelifts. Southwest Mall, Westminster Mall, Buckingham Sq. and Aurora Mall are begiining to fade. Englewood's Cinderella City was the areas largest at over 2 million sq feet, but it was replaced by a TOD and city offices and stores and is doing very well.

Northglenn Mall became a big box outdoor center, as did Westland. Several new centers are being developed Southlands will be part Mall, part outdoor center with housing for 1500 nearby. The new Northfield at Stapleton is a big box center just north of the former Stapleton AP and all the new housing there. There is talk of one possibly two centers on North I-25 and one in Brighton.

The 16th Street mall in Denver isn't an enclosed mall but links The Tabor Center, The Pavilions, Writer's Sq and Larimer Sq by a pedestrian mall which has hybrid propane/diesel electric buses which run the near two mile length.
A smaller center near light rail is the very popular Aspen Grove part outlet center, part restaurant center. What is happening in your city?:jester:

[BTinSF]

What's happening in San Francisco (mall-wise)?

Just one thing. This:

Westfield San Francisco Center--1.5 million sq. ft, 3 blocks from Union Square, direct basement access to BART and Muni subways (Powell St. Station)

It's the domed building that takes up most of a city block
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/24/mn_bloomies_25.jpg

The city context (it's the sort of L-shaped building with a dome and the bit of orange wall)
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/24/mn_bloomies_02.jpg

The dome (preserved from the predecessor building, the old Emporium Department Store)
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/24/mn_bloomies_22.jpg

Crowds flood the opening in October (including moi)
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/29/bu_westfield_0836a_fl.jpghttp://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/29/ba_westfield_101_mac.jpg

The main attraction (their second largest store anywhere after the NYC flagship)
http://sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/29/ba_westfield_132_mac.jpg

Inside, just before the opening
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/09/28/bu_retailimpact24_55.jpg

The interior
http://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Photos/SFBayArea/SF/WestField_Mall/2006_09_SF_035.jpghttp://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Photos/SFBayArea/SF/WestField_Mall/2006_09_SF_033.jpghttp://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Photos/SFBayArea/SF/WestField_Mall/2006_09_SF_010.jpghttp://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Photos/SFBayArea/SF/WestField_Mall/2006_09_SF_031.jpghttp://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/Graphics/Photos/SFBayArea/SF/WestField_Mall/2006_09_SF_005.jpg

For a list of the 405 stores: http://westfield.com/sanfrancisco/ourstores/index.html

[BG918]

^ That place looks awesome. Except in an urban context like SF, indoor malls are pretty much dead. Town centers and lifestyle centers are the new malls. Some do a pretty good job of integrating with the existing city fabric and others are probably worse than indoor malls.

The problem I have is all that retail could be concentrated in a downtown and not a far-flung piece of land, even if it is walkable and mixed-use. Where I live, Norman, they are building a mixed-use, pedestrian-friendly outdoor mall that takes up land in the city that was once part of a military facility. That's great in all and it will be a nice place but it neglects the historic downtown where there is little retail activity. I can only imagine if all of those stores/restaurants were built instead along Main St. downtown instead of a faux Main St. in the center...

[mhays]

In Downtown Seattle, all the good spots on Pike, Pine, 4th, 5th, and 6th are full. Retailers are always talking about moving in "if they could find a spot". Our last big Downtown retail construction binge was in the late 90s, including Pacific Place (the size of Denver's Pavilions but on less land), Nordstrom's relocation to the giant former Frederick's store, and conversion of the old small Nordstrom into multiple stores with offices above.

The Pike Place Market, with its 200 shops and 250 daily craftsperson booths, is doing fine. I won't get into other Downtown retail districts but they're doing well also -- the furniture district along Western, the galleries and rugs of Pioneer Square, the funky stuff on upper Pike/Pine, First and Second in Belltown, etc.

As for supermarket-based Downtown projects, Whole Foods just opened with 20 other stores at the 2200 Westlake condo/hotel project (ps, 2201, an office and condo project aka Enso, broke ground yesterday!), a big QFC is part of the Lumen Condo project topped out at 5th N & Mercer, and a boutique market (tbd) is planned for the topped-out 8th & Madison apartment project.

Redevelopment of the existing 10-acre Goodwill site near Downtown at Dearborn & Rainier will apparently include a couple big box stores including a Home Depot and Target, or something like that. Plus 560 housing units, other stores, and a new Goodwill.

As for "malls", seemingly every existing mall is adding more retail space on former parking lots, and adding new garages to replace the parking -- Bellevue Square, Southcenter, U Village, Northgate, Alderwood, Totem Lake, etc. Also, new retail-focused centers are being built with denser, walkable mixed-use concepts (a sliding scale!) -- Kent Station, Redmond Town Center, The Landing in Renton, Woodinville Wine Village, etc.

Every three days it seems, another suburban city advertises an RFP for developers to develop a new mixed-use "downtown" on a vacant site, or on the edge of an existing downtown, or even on multiple properties. Retail is always a big part, housing is pretty universal, and many include new city halls and libraries. Some of these are already getting built. Examples (various stages) include Kenmore, Burien, Puyallup, Lakewood, Auburn, Federal Way, Everett's Snohomish Riverfront, and Everett's Port Gardner Wharf.

Existing suburban downtowns and urban mixed-use districts are mostly developing at a fast pace, because our region has chosen to focus growth there. This includes in-town districts like Ballard, Admiral, Fremont, Greenlake, etc., and suburban downtowns like Mercer Island, Kent, and Kirkland. These always include a fair amount of new retail but not as the main focus.

Old downtowns in Tacoma and Bremerton, both ghost towns a decade ago, are undergoing astonishing transformations. But the retail in both is still mostly just enough to serve the people there for other things.

Downtown Bellevue, where last-week's 20-story apartment start was met with a ho-hum since it's one of 16 towers u-c, is seeing a fair amount of new retail, but aside from the last sidewalk-focused expansion of Bellevue Square and the new Lincoln Square there's not much going up except a new Safeway that's part of a 360-unit apartment (woodframe, not a tower), and the two-tower first phase of Washington Square will apparently have a boutique supermarket.

[BTinSF]

The problem I have is all that retail could be concentrated in a downtown and not a far-flung piece of land, even if it is walkable and mixed-use.


Believe me, SF has no shortage of regular downtown retail. The Union Square area (3 blocks away from the pictured mall) is one of America's best and most prosperous high-end shopping districts. So as not to take up space in this thread, I'll just refer anyone interested to: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=93891&page=5

But in the spirit of the season, I offer this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/pwright1/sfvac019Small.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/pwright1/sfvac041Small.jpg

[crisp444]

Except in an urban context like SF, indoor malls are pretty much dead. Town centers and lifestyle centers are the new malls.

Although you're right that town centers and "lifestyle centers" are the design of most concentrated shopping nowadays (as opposed to indoor malls), indoor malls are far from being dead in many parts of the US. Places like Mall of America, Dadeland Mall (Kendall/Miami, FL), South Coast Plaza (Costa Mesa, CA), Beverly Center (LA), and the Bridgewater Commons (Bridgewater, NJ) are as successful as ever. I think many indoor malls across the US will live on for a long, long time. Lifestyle centers may be contructed instead of new enclosed malls, but the many successful indoor malls aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

[miketoronto]

Malls are not going anywhere. There was a newspaper article here in Toronto not long ago, stating that malls will still hold their own over power centres, and that the malls are doing better then ever.

[dougtheengineer]

^^ I hope thats true, I can't stand power centers. In Niagara anyways most of the malls certainly seem to be losing the battle....

[glowrock]

Are shopping centers still as popular in your city or are some like in the Denver/Boulder area transforming into something new. In Lakewood, the former 2 level Villa Italia Mall has been transformed into "The BelMar Town Center". New stores and housing mix, yet with an old town plaza feel. Southglenn Mall is transforming into "The Streets at Southglenn" and in Boulder the old Crossroads Mall is becoming "29th Street".

Yet many indoor Malls are doing very well. Flatiron Crossing, Park Meadows and The Cherry Creek Mall are all well over a million and a half sq ft and are very popular. Colorado Mills a newer mall out west has never reached its potential. Some of the older malls are showing signs of old age even though some have had recent facelifts. Southwest Mall, Westminster Mall, Buckingham Sq. and Aurora Mall are begiining to fade. Englewood's Cinderella City was the areas largest at over 2 million sq feet, but it was replaced by a TOD and city offices and stores and is doing very well.

Northglenn Mall became a big box outdoor center, as did Westland. Several new centers are being developed Southlands will be part Mall, part outdoor center with housing for 1500 nearby. The new Northfield at Stapleton is a big box center just north of the former Stapleton AP and all the new housing there. There is talk of one possibly two centers on North I-25 and one in Brighton.

The 16th Street mall in Denver isn't an enclosed mall but links The Tabor Center, The Pavilions, Writer's Sq and Larimer Sq by a pedestrian mall which has hybrid propane/diesel electric buses which run the near two mile length.
A smaller center near light rail is the very popular Aspen Grove part outlet center, part restaurant center. What is happening in your city?:jester:

I agree with much of your sentiment, Top of the Park, but I disagree that, at least in Denver, Southwest Plaza and Aurora Mall are beginning to fade. Both have undergone serious renovation recently, and have, in fact, added additional department stores to their mix of stores. Agreed complete about Westminster Mall (Flatirons Mall has been killing it much the same way as a constrictor kills its prey, painfully and slowly!), and Buckingham is about to be demolished for another "new urbanist" development...

Aaron (Glowrock)

[Jonas]

There is no such massive mall culture in the UK as in US or Asia (or even Eastern Europe) and I haven't got much info about it. It seems people prefer smaller retail units or individual shops. That makes the streets more vibrant according to some. As for me, I love big malls.

I've got some random photos from Singapore and Kuala Lumpur. These cities (Especially Singapore) as well as , I suppose, most developing Asian cities are simply packed with huge shiny shopping malls. I never went to any just with a purpose to take pictures (there are probably much bigger and much nicer ones), but it's just a few random shots I have. I dunno names and any other info about them

Putrajaya Mall in Malaysia (near Kuala Lumpur)

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8169/img0670dp1.jpg

Shopping mall under the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6375/img0864vm6.jpg


A few shopping malls in Singapore (there are A LOT of them, they are big, shiny, they sell everything and they are just very good... I really mean it). It's a real paradise for mall-lovers, I had my best shopping experiences there :)

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3338/pict3180hb2.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9122/img0116lk3.jpg

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9496/img0118gl9.jpg

[Top Of The Park]

I agree with much of your sentiment, Top of the Park, but I disagree that, at least in Denver, Southwest Plaza and Aurora Mall are beginning to fade. Both have undergone serious renovation recently, and have, in fact, added additional department stores to their mix of stores. Agreed complete about Westminster Mall (Flatirons Mall has been killing it much the same way as a constrictor kills its prey, painfully and slowly!), and Buckingham is about to be demolished for another "new urbanist" development...

Aaron (Glowrock)

I was in Aurora Mall over a year ago and liked what they had done.....it certainly has nice wide pedestrian plazas within. This was just after the shooting when two people were killed in another gang related incident there. When that happened I remember the owners being so mad and astounded that they had poured all this money and care into the center trying to free it from gang control. The night we were there it was very empty. We were killing time before a show at the close by cinema grill (cool place).

On the other hand Southwest Plaza is suffering somewhat from Park Meadows which is a hop skip and jump away on 470. Hopefully, both can still make it.

[glowrock]

I was in Aurora Mall over a year ago and liked what they had done.....it certainly has nice wide pedestrian plazas within. This was just after the shooting when two people were killed in another gang related incident there. When that happened I remember the owners being so mad and astounded that they had poured all this money and care into the center trying to free it from gang control. The night we were there it was very empty. We were killing time before a show at the close by cinema grill (cool place).

On the other hand Southwest Plaza is suffering somewhat from Park Meadows which is a hop skip and jump away on 470. Hopefully, both can still make it.

You know that Southwest Plaza is about 15 miles from Park Meadows, right? It was Southglenn Mall that was really hurt by Park Meadows, not Southwest Plaza.

Yes, Aurora Mall does have the gang issue to deal with still, but something tells me an increased security/police force will be able to deal with that problem.

Aaron (Glowrock)

[kznyc2k]

In the Albany region, a weeding out of sorts has gone on: there are the two biggest malls, both the most centrally located, that are doing quite well, as they always have, and then all the smaller more town-based (versus region-based) malls have all either died slow deaths over the last 15 years or are being remodeled into those fashionable outdoor-plaza lifestyle centers. But the two big ones show no signs of decline, rather the exact opposite - the second biggest is undergoing a major reconstruction and now houses the Capital District's first Cheesecake Factory (whoopee!), and the largest (Crossgates) continues to be THE de facto place to go for young people.

So it seems that if you have the critical mass of shoppers in place, the mall (in the traditional sense of the word) will stay a mall.

[lawsond]

Malls are not going anywhere. There was a newspaper article here in Toronto not long ago, stating that malls will still hold their own over power centres, and that the malls are doing better then ever.

mike, i think that may be true in canada. power centres seem to have run their course.
they are extremely car oriented.
too much for the slightly more communal canucks.
malls have more of a sense of community (sadly).
big box is just not in our dna. we like smaller boxes with more variety in them.
whether in the mall.
or downtown.
"big" just doesn't feel comfortable to canadians.

[volguus zildrohar]

There's no shortage of traffic or business for area malls. From The Gallery and Cheltenham Malls to KOP and Cherry Hill, malls are still a destination for many in the Philadelphia area - young and old alike. The mentality still holds for many that they're the only place to do shopping of any kind around here without traveling to the Reading outlets or New York - which means such people truly don't get out much except to go to the mall.

[Xelebes]

West Edmonton Mall is doing strong, however it has been falling apart structurally over the last couple years. Pipes bursting during rainfall, foundations cracking allowing slough-water to flood in and other things like that might cause the mall to shut down or be torn down.

Southgate and Londonderry Malls are doing soundly while other malls like Northgate, Northtown, Meadowlark and Millbourne Malls are either dead or dying. Southgate looks like it will be expanding it's parking space by building up as it gets a new LRT station put in in the next five years. Londonderry underwent expansions in the last 10 years or so, so I suspect it is doing well. On the other hand, Meadowlark and Northgate are being converted into medical centres. Millbourne may join the fate of Heritage Mall.

Heritage Mall closed down in the late nineties to be converted into residential high-rises (yay!). It is far in the southside of Edmonton, but it is getting an LRT expansion to it in the next 5 years.

Westmount Mall, Edmonton's oldest mall is still holding steady in terms of keeping tenants there.

As for power centres - they are doing ok but they are increasingly becoming inaccessible. South Edmonton Common is right now causing a massive bottleneck on the biggest highway outside of Edmonton right before the Rat Maze - Anthony Henday & Queen Elizabeth II Interchange. Right now they are scrambling to build an overpass over that bottleneck but the costs are skyrocketing as labour shortages are becoming more and more of a problem in this city.

Terra Losa Common on 170th Street is an older and smaller power centre and does not have these drawbacks as it has relatively ample access by Edmonton Transit (routes 109 and 150).

For an even older power centre, Mayfield Common on 170th Street and Stony Plain Road used to be a mall but it shut down. It had a Walmart in it but I believe it burned down (ha!) and instead of rebuilding, Wal-Mart left it alone and built a new one in West Edmonton Common.

West Edmonton Common on Stoney Plain Road is a new power centre, I believe to be newer than South Edmonton Common, but is also very inaccessible by public transportation and just simply out of everyone's attention. I can't say how well it is doing.

I don't know much about North Edmonton Common or East Edmonton Common.


I think the main reason why the malls are doing so good is because they have transit centres right by them and thus has a lot of public transportation to them. The new trend in alottment of retail space distribution may just cause an overhaul of the public transportation routes (buses and trolleys), which in the end may be a good thing. Edmonton is not known for having a bus system that makes much sense.

[zilfondel]

Believe me, SF has no shortage of regular downtown retail. The Union Square area (3 blocks away from the pictured mall) is one of America's best and most prosperous high-end shopping districts. So as not to take up space in this thread, I'll just refer anyone interested to: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=93891&page=5

But in the spirit of the season, I offer this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/pwright1/sfvac019Small.jpg

Yea, but is your SAKS really on 5th avenue?

Ours is! :banana:

[pwright1]

Believe me, SF has no shortage of regular downtown retail. The Union Square area (3 blocks away from the pictured mall) is one of America's best and most prosperous high-end shopping districts. So as not to take up space in this thread, I'll just refer anyone interested to: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=93891&page=5

But in the spirit of the season, I offer this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/pwright1/sfvac019Small.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/pwright1/sfvac041Small.jpg

These pics courtesy of PWright1 from my SF Christmas vacation.

[Master Shake]

Its weird that Chicago has at least two massive downtown malls on Michigan Avenue, but New York really does not have any in its central core.

As for Asia, after the heat, humidity, nasty pollution and general filth of traditional shopping in Asia, even an ardent anti-mall guy like myself learns to love the order, cleanliness and AC of the asian malls.

Nothing in the United States can approach a high end East Asian mall. Prada stores the size of Wal-Mart, well not quite that big, but you get the idea.

[miketoronto]

My sister was stuck at a power centre called Grove City out in PA for three days last week.

My very suburban cousins here in Toronto decided to put together a shopping trip to Grove City outlet mall. My sister is a real downtowner kind of girl and shops at local stores most of the time, etc.
Anyway she went because she thought it would be a good couple days to hang with the cousins and she was under the impression this mall was near Pittsburgh or something. So she thought she could excape to Pittsburgh and sightsee while the others shop.

Well was she wrong.

This mall is basically out in the middle of nowhere, so all there is to do is shop. No movie theatres, or anything. Just shopping a couple restaurants.

So my poor sister was stuck there. She went through the mall in like two hours she said. But not our cousins.
The funniest thing was my sister boycots Wal-Mart.
But guess what Saturday night was???????????
My sister thought Saturday night was going to be a bar night to go out and have drinks and talk, etc. Instead my very suburban cousins had another fun thing in mind. SATURDAY NIGHT SHOPPING AT THE SUPER WAL-MART, since its bigger then the one in Toronto and theres no sales tax :)

I tell you, the mall culture is ingrained there :)

My poor sister could not wait to get back to Toronto.

[wrendog]

Utah is no longer really building indoor malls.. they have gone the route or outdoor lifestyle centers.. same mall stores, but outside..

[Boris2k7]

Now, I don't know all that much about the retail scene here in Calgary (I don't shop much) but I'll give it a go...

The big indoor malls here are doing quite well, especially in our cold winters. Chinook, Southcentre, Marlbourough, Market Mall, Sunridge, and Northhill have all been renovated over the years and they are getting more business than ever. Especially Chinook, which leads the retail scene, picking up all the high-end stores before they go downtown or elsewhere. They have an expansion slated for sometime in the future.

Some local indoor malls aren't doing quite as well. For example, even though Midnapore Mall got a renovation, it is almost always dead quiet. Same goes (I think) for many of the "community malls."

Now, there are some big power centres that have really grown, while the others merely hum along. Deerfoot Meadows has the biggest of the big-box stores, with a new huge Canadian Superstore Under Construction, a very popular Ikea and Costco, a bunch of medium box stores like Best Buy and Linens & Things, and a new lifestyle centre to start construction soon).

Strip retail is kindof just humming along as well. On Macleod Trail, one our main arteries, a lot of places get shut down and replaced within a year of opening, and others have been there for 50 years. Old car washes, Mechanics and Car Dealerships, a wide variety of big-medium box stores, some suburban office, some new condos, a few grocery stores, and a parallel LRT... all the way from the edge of the city to downtown.

As for the downtown scene... well a lot of our streets are seeing revitalization and increased activity. 17th Avenue remains the center of Calgary streetlife, while Stephen Avenue anchors the high-end stores that aren't in Chinook, and Chinatown is good as well. The Core Shopping Centre (which includes TD Square, Eatons' Centre, Sears, Scotia Centre, and the Bay) is our big indoor mall downtown, and also has to fight for Chinook Centre's leftovers. Eau Claire market is another centre, but will be demolished in the coming years and replaced with a more upscale centre.

EDIT: Added Furry's input.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Boris, add Market Mall and Sunridge to that list of massively renovated Calgary malls.

[The Chemist]

Chinook Centre has the 3rd highest retail sales per square foot of any mall in Canada. The only two malls that have higher retail sales per square foot are Toronto's Eaton Centre and Vaughn somethingorother.

Chinook Centre will also be home to one of the first Apple stores in Canada next year.

[coddat]

San Antonio has one whopper of a Dead mall, Windsor Park with over 1 million square feet of vacant space on 70 acres of land...some pictures
1986
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/56/156/1/43/5/514214305nBjQVy_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1514214305081937016nBjQVy)
2003
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/57/57/0/73/71/513607371ZxdnNl_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1513607371081937016ZxdnNl)
1985
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/61/61/1/37/42/514213742tujnaC_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1514213742081937016tujnaC)
2003
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/56/56/0/49/69/513604969PzHMBt_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1513604969081937016PzHMBt)
1985
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/64/164/1/48/65/514214865rydpnv_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1514214865081937016rydpnv)
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/55/55/1/47/19/514214719imQfbV_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1514214719081937016imQfbV)
2003
http://thumb16.webshots.net/t/55/155/0/38/74/513603874vGdoVn_th.jpg (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1513603874081937016vGdoVn)
Why did it go dead?...Even after a massive interior remodeling project, adding a food court, new flooring, ect... A drive by shooting in the parking lot, as well as a shooting in the actual mall drove shoppers away to other malls, such as North Star and Rolling Oaks mall.

[alps]

Both of Halifax's major malls, as well as Bayers Lake, the sprawly, government-built 'power centre', all seem to be doing fine. Many smaller malls are struggling, though.

[miketoronto]

Malls are like street shopping strips. They go in cycles. Just because a mall is dead now does not mean malls are failing, etc.

Just like streets go in and out of favour, so do malls. One mall may be on hard times today, but reinvent itself next year. Just depends.

[toddguy]

It is interesting how new malls seem to open up and kill or change the older malls. Here in Columbus Northern Lights and Great Western were hurt when Northland and Westland opened, and then they were hurt(Northland killed) when Tuttle, Easton, and Polaris opened up. Right now I would say Westland is on Life Support..along with City Center downtown. I really hope they can do something with these malls and not just tear them down-especially City Center.

Dead mall site: http://www.deadmalls.com/

[Boris2k7]

Malls are like street shopping strips. They go in cycles. Just because a mall is dead now does not mean malls are failing, etc.

Just like streets go in and out of favour, so do malls. One mall may be on hard times today, but reinvent itself next year. Just depends.

Sometimes. Like I mentioned in my post, Midnapore Mall has not been doing well for itself in the 12+ years I've lived in Calgary, despite a big renovation a few years ago. Businesses continue to close down and/or move away. I think the only things that really keep it going are a Rogers Video store and a Safeway... there are more examples of this around the city.

[Chicago103]

My sister was stuck at a power centre called Grove City out in PA for three days last week.

My very suburban cousins here in Toronto decided to put together a shopping trip to Grove City outlet mall. My sister is a real downtowner kind of girl and shops at local stores most of the time, etc.
Anyway she went because she thought it would be a good couple days to hang with the cousins and she was under the impression this mall was near Pittsburgh or something. So she thought she could excape to Pittsburgh and sightsee while the others shop.

Well was she wrong.

This mall is basically out in the middle of nowhere, so all there is to do is shop. No movie theatres, or anything. Just shopping a couple restaurants.

So my poor sister was stuck there. She went through the mall in like two hours she said. But not our cousins.
The funniest thing was my sister boycots Wal-Mart.
But guess what Saturday night was???????????
My sister thought Saturday night was going to be a bar night to go out and have drinks and talk, etc. Instead my very suburban cousins had another fun thing in mind. SATURDAY NIGHT SHOPPING AT THE SUPER WAL-MART, since its bigger then the one in Toronto and theres no sales tax :)

I tell you, the mall culture is ingrained there :)

My poor sister could not wait to get back to Toronto.

You know it always annoys me when people travel to major metro areas only to see something in the suburbs or exurbs. I know that wouldnt apply to the vast majority of visitors to the Chicagoland area but I am sure there are still a fair number of people who travel just to go to Gurnee Mills (huge outlet mall), Six Flags Great America (as fun as that can be), or to Woodfield Mall (huge suburban style shopping mall in Schaumburg). People who do that get no feel for Chicago at all and some might not even care that they didnt visit downtown or the city, some might even fear it. I would absolutely cringe if I came across someone who said "we went to Woodfield Mall in Chicago", thankfully since I live in Chicago I am not likely to hear that but I might when I travel elsewhere. Also some suburbanities almost take a wierd pride in saying they have never been up the Sears Tower or Hancock, never visited the major museums or shopped on the Mag Mile. To that I like to counter by taking pride in the fact that I have never set foot in Woodfield Mall (or even been to Schaumburg besides driving through it on I-90) or Gurnee Mills.

[SSLL]

^^I believe Yorkdale is what you're thinking of, not Vaughan Mills.

[LordMandeep]

Malls in Toronto, even in the Suburbs are still busier then the power centers.

take square one in Mississauga, Bramalea city Centre in Brampton, Vaughn Mills in Vaughn. They still are the most busiest shopping centres. The have not declined in any way. Bramalea city centre was declining but they did some fixing up, and its busy as ever.


Must of them are from the 1960's-1970d's.

However some shopping malls aren't doing so well, but they are quite small compared to the major malls.

[miketoronto]

And one major reason why suburban Toronto malls are strong is public transit.

A article done on the health of Toronto's malls said transit plays an important role in Toronto's malls. Transit allows even teens to get to the mall easy.

No joke. If you look at Toronto's suburban malls, they all have subway stations or are major regional bus terminals. And it allows easy access even if you don't have a car.

Mississauga Transit Bus Station at Square One Shopping Mall. Over 25,000 prople a day pass through the Square One Terminal.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fa/MississaugaTransitTerminal.jpg/800px-MississaugaTransitTerminal.jpg

[Paintballer1708]

The Mall at Robinson and the Ross Park Mall here in metro Pittsburgh are doing very well. They are both about a 15-20 minute trip from downtown Pittsburgh.

[barneyg]

Chicago103 and miketoronto: Not that it really matters, but the Grove City outlets, which are like a huge strip mall and anybody who plans to spend 3 days there is just plain crazy, are outside the Pittsburgh metro and about 1 hour from downtown.

[miketoronto]

Chicago103 and miketoronto: Not that it really matters, but the Grove City outlets, which are like a huge strip mall and anybody who plans to spend 3 days there is just plain crazy, are outside the Pittsburgh metro and about 1 hour from downtown.

Well then alot of people are crazy. Because I know tons of people in Toronto that make special three day trips out to Grove City for shopping trips. And they just rave about it. My cousins are not the only ones. Many Toronto people go nuts for that Grove City :)

[crisp444]

Can someone explain to me the differences between a "power center" a "lifestyle center" and a regular enclosed mall? These words are used all the time on this forum (but I have never heard them said in real life) and I really don't know how to distinguish what they mean from a regular mall! Thanks in advance.

[crisp444]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Three day shopping trips done in one single mall? I don't think that would be possible for me. I'd probably be done with the whole thing in 4-6 hours or less. I guess some people really do go into ALL of the stores.

[SpongeG]

most of the malls here - Vancouver BC area - have added couches, rugs, coffee tables etc. to give a more homey appeal i guess - and the chairs couches are always filled with people relaxing - some have added giant TVs to the areas

park royal is the only mall to have added a "village" to it - which is nice - has a "boutique" home depot and some big box stores mixes in with smaller retailers - most of whom are not found in other malls usually

what seems to be happenning in vancouver i think is the downtown really developing as it transforms - more street retail is spreading from robson street where it is mainly concentrated - a lot of the new street retail has condos above it or offices

[SpongeG]

Can someone explain to me the differences between a "power center" a "lifestyle center" and a regular enclosed mall? These words are used all the time on this forum (but I have never heard them said in real life) and I really don't know how to distinguish what they mean from a regular mall! Thanks in advance.

power centre - the world's largest is Edmonton's South Common apparently

basically its like a shopping mall or strip mall that houses Big box retailers instead of smaller stores that you normally find inside malls without dept store anchors like malls will have

so a power centre may have IKEA, Home Depot, Best Buy, Winners (TJ MAXX), Ross, Michaels, etc. with a few mall stores mixed in - like Old Navy and some restaurants like Olive Garden, Montanas

lifestyle centre as from wikipedia

Lifestyle center, as used in commercial development in the United States, a is a shopping center or mixed-used commercial development that combines the traditional retail functions of a shopping mall but with leisure amenities oriented towards upscale consumers.

Lifestyle centers, which were first labelled as such by Memphis developers Poag & McEwen in the late 1980s [1] and emerged as a retailing trend in the late 1990s, are sometimes labeled "boutique malls" and are often located in affluent suburban areas.

The proliferation of lifestyle centers in the United States accelerated in the 2000s, with number going from 30 in 2002 to 120 at the end of 2004 [2].

Lifestyle centers are sometimes depicted as occupying the upscale end of the spectrum of commercial development, at the opposite end of the outlet mall, which typically caters to a wider range of income with bargain prices. The growth of lifestyle centers had occurred at the same time of an acceleration of the shutting down of traditional shopping malls, which typically require large sites over 70 acres (283,000 m²) at a time when land prices are escalating. The construction of lifestyle centers usually require less land and generate higher revenue margins, often generating close to 500 dollars per square foot, compared to an average of 330 dollars per square foot for a traditional mall. Typical amenities at lifestyle centers include plush chairs instead of traditional plastic seating in common areas.

Regular shopping malls - tend to have some anchors - dept stores - with smaller shops in between and a food court