[Urbanpdx]

Thanks EP,

So, with what you know, if you were a developer looking for a project would you choose Gateway or would you wait and see while investing elsewhere?

[EastPDX]

... all the developers are waiting for the 102nd work to start. Then they can seriously go in and offer the land owners a fair price. That is first from a timing question. As for a type of development, I would go with a retirement/low income/retail mix. Since the area doesn't have the higher paying jobs that we talked about earlier, using the retirement portion to support the low income apartments. Tax abatements might be available with the low income apartments being in the urban redevelopment zone. Retail should and always has worked in Gateway.

I believe all the developers see the same thing I and others see. Five to ten story redevelopment projects in all the parking lots and along all the major avenues. Parking will be centralized (structures) and underground. The land is too important to be surface parking. Similar to what is happening now in Downtown PDX and out in the The Round area of Beaverton.

EP

[zilfondel]

I totally agree. The Damascus/Springwater area does need more infrastructure to properly develop it as the plans have envisioned for the area; including a highway and to extend the 205 lightrail into the area - and perhaps a mixed-use path extended from the trail loop that winds its way through the portland metro area.

Accessibility and mobility is key to cohesively connect the region together, and is part of what leads to higher land values and thus higher quality development. Well, hopefully anyway - it still takes intent and money to do things above and beyond the norm.

[mcbaby]

does anyone recall a thread about the condo project at the old tice electric company on 21st and se belmont?

[sirsimon]

Yep. It was kind of a long building - I remember people here commenting that it needed to be broken up visually. There was also an article in the Oregonian about it, as I recall reading comments from neighbors who felt unhappy about the prospect of having this building there.

[MarkDaMan]

I've never understood the draw of Gateway. Mark, why, other than low cost and a LRT station and freeway access, would anyone want to live in Gateway?

I'm not trying to be insulting, I just want to know.

no offense taken. I was living in the Hollywood in a house and wanted to downsize to an apartment to make sure I could deal with condo living...didn't want to buy something I wasn't going to enjoy living in, and since I never really lived in multi-unit housing outside a year in a downtown high rise, I thought I'd try. Anyway, my landlord's son had just bought a new building in Gateway and needed tenants fast. The price was good, the place decent, and the guy's a friend, so I've just been kicking it watching the condo market to weaken for the past two years now.

I never thought I'd end up near Gateway though, to tell you the truth. However, since I have lived there for some time now, I can see how a few major developments could tranform the entire district. I also feel the same about 'downtown' Hollywood. I could hope the PDC would align it's priorities with Metro's and build these town centers up and dense as invisioned.

[Urbanpdx]

Thanks for the insight Mark. There are several nice properties available for sale in Gateway, I just don't see anyone jumping.

I'm sorry about your market timing on buying. The condo market flattened in the fall of 06 but I really doubt you'll ever see 2004-2005 prices (or interest rates) again without a MAJOR economic disaster. I don't have a crystal ball but housing prices are what urban economists call "sticky" in the downward direction. Oh well, there are a lot of advantages to renting that are not widely discussed.

[MarkDaMan]

^maybe not jumping yet, but those with foresight know to invest before gentrification. We'll see.

I've been looking at a couple reaaaaly promising deals lately. I was waiting for the 1700 building to progress further, even talked to my friend who works for G-E, well, it appears the building wont start until probably this fall at the soonest, so I've turned my attention. The interest rates have been holding pretty steady, and the prices for condos have continued to decline, slightly. If I am to purchase a place, it will be soon. Otherwise I'm going back to school full time for a career change...

[Urbanpdx]

Long term rates are doing pretty good but the 3% 5/1 arms are a thing of the past. I know of several "investors" who are having trouble flipping the condos they bought last year. A guy with some time on his hands might be able to get one to bite if he made low offers on a lot of different places.

What price range are you looking in? Downtown only?

[MarkDaMan]

Downtown only?

hahaaa...only if I was a fool. It's not that I can't afford a place downtown, but you add in HOA fees monthly, one place even had monthly parking fees, for downtown properties and can kiss the extra cushion money away.

[Urbanpdx]

Oh, I assumed you did not have a car. Where are you looking?

[MarkDaMan]

Oh, I assumed you did not have a car.

why? I've been looking Southeast, Gresham, Fairview, and one in NoPo.

[Urbanpdx]

Your anti-auto bias of course!

:)

Which projects in SE and North? I think Gresham and Fairview are too far away from everything myself...

[mcbaby]

i wish i could find a rendering of it or a developers link

[MarkDaMan]

^ha, I'm certainly not anti-auto. I love my truck. It gets me to Silver Falls for weekend hiking, a trip through the Gorge, up to Helens, skiing on Hood. I just don't need it to get to and from work, the store, local errands, or going out on the weekends.

I was seriously looking at a condo in Cascadian Court in the Lloyd. It was just too small. I've been looking more at townhomes than condos lately. Some of Portland is just too expensive for what you get, even with location, so when I see a two story, two bedroom townhome in Gresham, vs. a 1 *uhumm* bedroom with a deck big enough to do a circle in, it's hard to choose the condo. And, since this is my first home I am seriously needing to get something I think will retain its value, considering the price difference between sq footage in Gresham vs. Portland, I might have to to settle for the burb and something not quite so 2007 new.

[Urbanpdx]

But don't you think that the ease of building a new building in Gresham will keep it from growing as quickly as the Portland buildings?

Which project in N were you looking at?

[MitchE]

Mark, have you considered buying an older refurbished condo that's close in? They are usually cheaper than new construction and you might be able to eek out a little more space.

I went thru the same process you did about 2 years ago and finally settled on a 2BR condo in SE that a converted apartment building from the late 60's. It was a little more than I wanted to pay but the 2nd bedroom is my income generator that has been working out really well. Assuming it's rented, the extra income makes my 30yr-fixed mortgage cheaper than if I had bought a 1 bedroom. And being that it's located in a very desirable area in SE has made renting the second room fairly easy and helped out on my bicycle commute. :)

[mcbaby]

there are some cool refurbished condos on hawthorne

http://www.oregonlive.com/realestate/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/homes_real_estate/1156533942223160.xml&coll=7

[MarkDaMan]

:previous:

great find mcbaby! Thanks! MitchE, I am really close to your position, I just have not had extremely great luck in roommate situations and don't want to depend on them for five years or so while I'm transitioning between careers, and besides, I already have a live in that helps with bills, so I have been looking at two bedrooms, but further out. I probably have been too demanding about how new the space must be, which is why my realy has me looking in the burbs. I might just schedule a weekend to look at closer-in refurbished places...but I have my concerns about them as most 'older' places I looked at early on in inner-Portland were fug 60's apartment buildings 'converted' to condos...it was depressing.

[Urbanpdx]

there are some cool refurbished condos on hawthorne

http://www.oregonlive.com/realestate/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/homes_real_estate/1156533942223160.xml&coll=7

Are you comfortable with the developer?

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1168034107267450.xml&coll=7

[Urbanpdx]

Gateway’s a pedestrian district, but one without sidewalks
by Alison Ryan
02/08/2007


Daily Journal of Commerce Photo
The vision laid out in the Gateway Regional Center Design guidelines is grand: "a highly-urbanized, pedestrian-oriented center, with an overall built size and scale second only to Portland's Central City."

But on Northeast 100th Avenue and other unimproved roads in the district, the only place to walk is in the street. And issues surrounding the lack of infrastructure need to be solved, developers say, before the transformation to urban can happen.

"We're in a pedestrian district without sidewalks," said Andrew Kelly, manager at KNR Properties LLC, which has developed – and is in the process of developing more – housing projects in the district.

Interest in developing in Gateway is there, said Byron Estes, a senior development manager with the Portland Development Commission, but in certain areas – especially central Gateway, the former Prunedale area – there are challenges.

"It's lacking a lot of streets and basic infrastructure," he said.

Developers foot the cost of many infrastructure additions. That means a higher cost to build, Kelly said, which means either smaller units or higher prices. And in Gateway, where pricing units under $200,000 is key, the impact on the bottom line makes a big difference.

"Out here, it's all about price point," he said. "I don't want to be building something and trying to sell it for $300,000."

Transportation access is key to a thriving Gateway. The district's 650 acres are bordered by interstates 205 and 84. MAX lines connect to downtown, Gresham and the airport, with a light-rail connection to downtown eventually expected. By 2015, Gateway is expected to be one of the most accessible locations within the Portland metro area.

But within district boundaries, connectivity is a problem. Sidewalks don't exist. Streets dead end. Roads are unimproved. In some areas, Kelly said, streetscape is an issue.

"Conceivably a guy would have to drive through the potholes and unimproved roads before he got home," he said. "And that makes you uncomfortable as a developer."

Gateway streets were developed around larger blocks, said Dan Layden, a Portland Office of Transportation project manager, with few crossings and few places to walk. In some areas, an uneven pattern of previous development is affecting future building.

"It's hard to assemble property to do a big development," he said, "and in some cases it's hard to put those streets through."

Solutions are in the works. The redevelopment of Northeast 102nd Avenue, the district's main artery, is scheduled to begin in September. Improvements largely focus on the pedestrian scale, with wider sidewalks, street trees and lights, pedestrian median crossings, and a bike lane in place of existing on-street parking planned.

"The eventual plan for the Gateway district is a more pedestrian-oriented district that has more businesses along that street that are pedestrian-oriented," Layden said. "What this provides is the basic infrastructure for that."

A super local improvement district (LID), under investigation as part of the in-the-works Central Gateway Redevelopment Plan, could help defer infrastructure costs of new projects as well.

"It has been somewhat of a barrier to development," Estes said. "And I definitely think, if we do it right, that a super LID could provide a lot of incentive for developers right there."

The plan is almost to draft stage, Estes said, and is expected to go before the PDC sometime in April for review. Details of how the LID might function haven't been established. But an outside funding source, whether it be PDC funds or city support, would fill part of the cost gap for owners and developers.

Kelly said he'd like to see the street and infrastructure improvements paid for in a way that's equitable – and shared among the landowner, the PDC, the city and other stakeholders. Right now, he said, not knowing what might be required on KNR projects – The Annex on Northeast 97th Avenue and Hazelwood on Northeast 99th – is the big problem.

"Number one is the uncertainty," he said. "If you look at The Annex, transportation now wants an 8-foot pedestrian corridor the length of the lot. And it's like, where did that come from?"

Despite challenges, activity is already going on in the district. The Portland Design Commission will offer design advice on two proposals during a hearing at 1:30 p.m. today. One of the projects is a proposed six-story, 58-unit residential project on Northeast 99th Avenue. The other is a KNR development, proposed to include two five-story mixed-use retail and residential buildings on a site at 206 N.E. 102nd Ave., that's before the commission for a second round of design advice.

And although the process is tougher in Gateway, Kelly said, it shouldn't be a barrier.

"Let's hope not," he said. "I'd like to see the area grow."

[MarkDaMan]

This should be fun to watch!

City seeks admin, promotion for courtyard competition
by Alison Ryan
02/08/2007


Plans for the "Living Spaces" courtyard housing competition are moving forward as the city of Portland seeks proposals for administration and promotion of the competition.

The winner of the city's request for proposals, which was issued Monday, will be involved deeply both in refining the competition program and with promotion. Promotion, said Bill Cunningham, a city planner, is one of the biggest goals.

"We ultimately want this competition to get beyond the design community," he said. "We want it to get the general public thinking about how higher-density housing forms may actually serve as an attractive option for families with children."

Families with children are the competition's main target. "Living Spaces: A Design Competition for Family-Friendly Courtyard Housing" is the full title. The whole idea, Cunningham said, is to explore how close-in courtyard housing could be designed to attract families who would otherwise leave the city.

The current timeline puts the competition opening for submittals in early May and closing in July, with judging sometime in August.

The deadline for proposals is Feb. 26. A shortlist will be announced March 2, with selection projected for the following week. A contract is expected to be executed by March 21, with work to begin by March 22.

Although proposals from firms that specialize in design competition management are expected, Cunningham said, the city is also hoping to get proposals from teams that can push Living Spaces into the public eye.

"We are equally interested in people who have expertise in promotion or publicity," he said. "Teams may be the way to go."

The full RFP is available online on the city's bid information Web site at cityofportland.ebidsystems.com/public/solicitations.asp.

http://www.djc-or.com/viewStory.cfm?recid=28871&userID=1

[mcbaby]

Are you comfortable with the developer?

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1168034107267450.xml&coll=7

i fail to see the relationship between this article and the listing for refurbished condos on hawthorne. am i missing something?

[Urbanpdx]

"77 complaints have been filed against Kehoe's companies, more than any other contractor in the past 10 years. "

[mcbaby]

is mk development one of kehoe's companies?

[Urbanpdx]

I believe so, MK stands for Martie Kehoe

[zilfondel]

This is just pathetic. Our city can't even figure out how to build sidewalks in existing areas, yet they are planning on spending $6-8 billion on a new I-5 bridge, expanding the freeway system, etc. Somebody's got to pay up, and it's the lazy-ass bums of landowners who never put in the concrete in the first place. Everybody's pointing the finger to the other guy...

Portland: the city where you don't have to take responsibility of your own fuck-ups!

[WonderlandPark]

This is just pathetic. Our city can't even figure out how to build sidewalks in existing areas, yet they are planning on spending $6-8 billion on a new I-5 bridge, expanding the freeway system, etc. Somebody's got to pay up, and it's the lazy-ass bums of landowners who never put in the concrete in the first place. Everybody's pointing the finger to the other guy...

Portland: the city where you don't have to take responsibility of your own fuck-ups!

Umm, the price is quoted at 1.6-1.8 Billion with "real" estimates at the higher range of 2 billion.

[zilfondel]

Umm, the price is quoted at 1.6-1.8 Billion with "real" estimates at the higher range of 2 billion.

You should read portlandtransport.com sometime. The word is out with the Oregonian that altogether, the plan will cost much, much more money - they will have to reconstruct all the bridge approaches, onramps, etc in the corridor in addition to the bridge. Last estimate was between $6-8 billion. I'm not going to go dig up the exact quote right now since I don't have enough time.

[mcbaby]

lordy..

[cab]

zilfondel, The bridge is NOT a city of Portland project. Chill out.

[Dougall5505]

how about this one:
http://www.brightworks.net/images/projects/mississippi_gardens.jpg
Tracking towards Platinum LEED certification, the Mississippi Garden Lofts are a one-of-a-kind development in the Mississippi conservation district of Portland, Oregon. Aside from the stunning, floor-to-ceiling glass and ipe-wood façades designed by the heralded local architects Holst, the Mississippi Garden Lofts will attempt to use more than 50% less energy than a baseline by using a ground-source, closed loop system, high-efficiency lighting, solar-hot water heating panels, and exhaust air heat recovery. A healing garden and pond in the ‘backyard’ of the site, designed by internationally-renowned landscape architect Kurisu, will be irrigated with rainwater and landscaped with native plants.
http://www.brightworks.net/pages.php?id=projects

[westsider]

Nice.

[sirsimon]

Dougall - Isn't that project still being contested by the people who live in Mississippi?

I like the design and hope that it goes in.

[kvalk]

Actually that project has been approved by the Historic Design Review Commision, but the design is quite different from what is seen there.

[sirsimon]

^ Cool, thanks for the update. Anyone know where we can see some updated renderings?

[Dougall5505]

check mitche's thread on suburban developtment in portland http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=125601

[PDX City-State]

Isn't that project still being contested by the people who live in Mississippi?

You think they would have spent their time contesting more offensive things in their neighborhood, such as:

$3.00 fish tacos at Porque No
The fact they don't have a grocery store
The increasing number of antique stores setting up shop
Severe body odor

[MarkDaMan]

Condo-retail plan OK’d
Portland Tribune

The Kerns Neighborhood Association has voted to support a code variance to allow a four-story condo-and-retail development project at the intersection of Southeast 28th Avenue and East Burnside Street.

The project was conceived by the owners of the building currently at the site, which houses the Hungry Tiger restaurant and lounge.

Developers plan 6,000 square feet of first-floor retail and 32 condominiums above that, ranging in size from 500 square feet to 1,200 square feet.

The variance would allow more off-street parking for residents of the new building and the elimination of certain loading zones that would otherwise be required to support businesses.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=117131805577956200

[MarkDaMan]

one way or another, this project has been in the works for something like 3 or 4 years now...

Planned garage near NW 23rd divides groups
TRIB TOWN: Portland council looks this week at neighborhood association’s design appeal
By Jim Redden
The Portland Tribune, Feb 13, 2007, Updated 1.5 hours ago

The City Council Wednesday is set to take up the issue of the first new parking garage proposed for upper Northwest Portland in many years.

Although the issue before the council is the design of the garage, some local activists hope the council will use the opportunity to reject the garage – and five others allowed under a master plan for the neighborhood adopted by the council four years ago.

“This is a residential neighborhood that has invested heavily in mass transit. A parking garage goes totally counter to that direction,” said John Bradley, land-use committee chairman for the Northwest District Association, the area’s official neighborhood association, which is fighting the garages.

But many business owners believe the garage is needed to help accommodate the shoppers flocking to stores and restaurants along Northwest 23rd and 21st avenues.

“There’s a parking shortage in the area. We would like see the project go forward,” said Peggy Anderson, a saleswoman for Hospitality News and president of the Nob Hill Business Association.

Anderson has no opinion on whether the other garages allowed in the plan should be built: “We’re just trying to build the first one,” she said.

The garage is proposed to be built just behind Papa Haydn restaurant in the 2300 block of Northwest Irving Street. Its construction will require the demolition of a 101-year-old house at 2323 N.W. Irving St.

Sites for the five additional garages are also identified in the Northwest District Plan, which the council adopted in 2003.

The plan was originally submitted in 1999 by the Northwest District Association. It did not call for the construction of any parking garages, prompting the NWDA to appeal the council’s version of the plan to the state Land Use Board of Appeals. The appeals board ruled that the council had the authority to adopt such a plan.

“We believe this means the council also has the authority to change the plan,” Bradley said.

The garage is proposed to be built on property controlled by Richard Singer, a Portland developer who has greatly influenced the mix of retailers along 23rd.

After the design was approved by the city’s Design Review Commission, the NWDA appealed it to the council, arguing that it does not meet design guidelines of that section of Northwest, officially known as the Alphabet Historic District.

Anderson said the design fits in well with the existing neighborhood, however.

City Council members say they cannot comment publicly on such appeals because they are quasijudicial matters with legal implications.

jimredden@portlandtribune.com
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=117131810889659300

[pdxman]

What is with the NW neighborhood people...first this garage, then the apple store. Are they against any change?

[zilfondel]

I am totally in favor of building 20 to 50 story parking garages in NW Portland.

oh wait, I'm being totally sarcastic. Have you ever BEEN to NW Portland, pdxman? How would you like a parking garage built 4 feet out from your kitchen window? Didn't think so!

Why the hell don't they build underground? As long as it doesn't affect people, they won't care... but that idiot, Mr. Singer, just likes to push buttons, as he owns virtually every property on 23rd. Bloody tourist street; no resident of the neighborhood ever even walks down the street because it's such a joke.

[pdxman]

I've been to 23rd more times than i can remember...its one of my favorite places. From what i remember to have seen, the renderings of this garage weren't that bad for a parking garage and it would seemingly blend in with the other buildings. Its not a giant smart park...I just don't see any harm in it. But i guess we can agree to disagree--different strokes for different folks. In all seriousness, do you happen to live in nw portland zilfondel?

[Drmyeyes]

"Why the hell don't they build underground?" zilfondel

Minus the rage, why the hell don't they build the parking underground in NW 23rd? A little transparency is in order. We keep hearing that underground parking is so much more expensive than above ground, but how much more? The fight for the planned above ground parking structure has been extraordinary considering the phenomenally magnetic allure of 23rd Avenue.

It's as if the expense of an underground structure as opposed to the alleged lower cost of an above ground structure would somehow economically break 23rd Av. Most likely this extremely successful business district could afford any additional expense represented by underground parking under a manageable financing plan offered by lenders that know they would be fools to pass up an opportunity to lend it the money for this purpose.

The NW district neighborhood offers one of the best possible arguments for underground parking. It is primarily a residential neighborhood of vintage houses and apartments that dedicates just two of its streets, 23rd and 21st, to the very prosperous retail business trade. Why should this primarily residential neighborhood sacrifice its limited housing space to parking?

I seriously question any perceived need for more parking structures in the NW 23rd area, let alone the imposition of above ground parking structures. Already on many days, 23rd attracts enough shoppers to make negotiating the sidewalks amidst the crowds a rather cumbersome experience. Just where do they think all the people attracted to the area by the availability of parking in these structures, are going to walk once they get to 23rd?

[pdxman]

Good points drmyeyes...i can agree with that arguement. Population control is something i never really thought about--i guess maybe you can have too many peds. I suppose thats why the streetcar is there, so people don't have to drive there. I guess at heart i'm pretty neutral about all this--if they build the garage then fine, if they don't so be it.

[zilfondel]

I've been to 23rd more times than i can remember...its one of my favorite places. From what i remember to have seen, the renderings of this garage weren't that bad for a parking garage and it would seemingly blend in with the other buildings. Its not a giant smart park...I just don't see any harm in it. But i guess we can agree to disagree--different strokes for different folks. In all seriousness, do you happen to live in nw portland zilfondel?

pdxman-

Yea, I lived on 20th & Marshall for 3 years. There are absolutely no buildings, except the hospital, that include parking garages in the main part of the neighborhood... particularly between 18th and 24th, the area is mostly comprised of single family homes (mostly Victorian) mixed with older brick walk-up apartments. A parking garage will most likely lower residential property values and act as a blight on the nieghborhood...

Land values should be high enough to make small underground lots (like the one built underneath the new Holst-designed home furnishings store... forgot what it is called) financially feasible.

[Drmyeyes]

I'm not sure or not if something like this is already being done, but it seems like it would be in the general interest of the city to encourage underground parking facilities as opposed to above ground. Seems like this is the kind of situation where PDC might come in to offer developers help with the extra cost of underground.

[Urbanpdx]

I hear the Singer/Zell family always builds new buildings with foundations designed for addtional floors to be added later. To date they have not added on but maybe this garage is part of that plan.

[BrG]

A little transparency is in order. We keep hearing that underground parking is so much more expensive than above ground, but how much more?

Digging is expensive.
Shoring walls are expensive.
When you get to 25 feet deep it get's extremely expensive, as the shoring design changes significantly and gets thicker and more expensive. Portland is particularly tricky as the 200' blocks do not always make nice with typical (required COP parking dimension) bay layouts. Unless you get into Valet parking and mechanized parking, it is pretty expensive, per square foot. Much more so than above ground parking.

Frankly, I don't see how 1 parking structure in NW portland will be the answer to the problems with parking. Unless it's huge. More folks will be encouraged to come because of its existence anyway.

Lake Oswego figured out how to get a parking hidden , they did the tried and true excercise of ringing/ cladding it with 4 story retail.

[Drmyeyes]

BrG, re; Lake Oswego parking structure; So the above ground parking is in the core of the building? Sounds very interesting; hides the cars, could allow ready access to upper level shops, but not a very efficient use of above ground space. Below ground parking has plenty of negatives. Two I can think of off the top of my head are ventilation and just generally, I don't like parking underground. Well, I don't like parking in any structure, but underground is probably worse. I figure it's just a penalty for driving a car. Valet parking, as long as the service is optional, is the answer to that for those that have the money. Plus, it creates another job opportunity.

[pdxman]

Well, after reading more in to the parking garage situation and reading the editors piece in the nw examiner i've decided to flip flop and go against what i said earlier. I didn't know that this garage could be a gateway to possibly 6 other garages in the area--which is out of line. I thought 1 would be ok, but not if it means 6 others would be built. The one thing i've wondered is whether the residents in nw care if people park in front of their house...you'd think that they'd rather have the cars put in to a garage of some sort. But who knows???

[Drmyeyes]

I'm not exactly sure of the visitor street parking situation right now, but I think it's regulated by signs with 1hr-2hr parking limits. That's the way it is up on king's hill where I usually park if I want to drop in on 23rd, etc. King's Hill residents had to complain like hell for years before the city finally did something about out of neighborhood people abusing street-side parking in front of their houses; sports fans and downtown office workers beating parking fees often completely filled the streets in front of their houses. No doubt the situation was somewhat similar in NW.

NW residents should come first for streetside parking for their cars. That's the way it is now I think....they can get a resident parking permit. 23rd and 21st retail should wake up and provide the most unobtrusive parking possible for the many, many people they seek to draw specifically to the neighborhood to patronize the businesses on those streets.

[MarkDaMan]

Is the Westerly being built with an underground garage? I'm wondering why they couldn't have built a 'super garage' underground there, and the adjacent shopping plaza parking lot, before constructing the building and townhomes.

[Urbanpdx]

BrG, re; Lake Oswego parking structure; So the above ground parking is in the core of the building? Sounds very interesting; hides the cars, could allow ready access to upper level shops, but not a very efficient use of above ground space. Below ground parking has plenty of negatives. Two I can think of off the top of my head are ventilation and just generally, I don't like parking underground. Well, I don't like parking in any structure, but underground is probably worse. I figure it's just a penalty for driving a car. Valet parking, as long as the service is optional, is the answer to that for those that have the money. Plus, it creates another job opportunity.

That is like the old broken window parable. Don't fall for that kind of make-work thinking Drmyeyes.

I don't like parking in a garage either. Reminds me of an old Seinfeld eppisode:
GEORGE: I can't park in a garage.
ELAINE: Why?
GEORGE: I don't know, I just can't. Nobody in my family can pay for parking, it's a sickness. My father never paid for parking; my mother, my brother, nobody. We can't do it.
ELAINE: I'll pay for it.
GEORGE: You don't understand. A garage. I can't even pull in there. It's like going to a prostitute. Why should I pay, when if I apply myself, maybe I could get it for free?

[MarkDaMan]

A bittersweet ending on a Burnside corner
Thursday, February 15, 2007
By Stephen Beaven
The Oregonian

Another glorious Portland dive, the kind of place where you could sit in a booth and have a half-pound burger or a plate of chow mein, has bitten the dust. It will be replaced by condos and shops.

It's a bittersweet ending for Ann and Alan Cohen, owners of the Hungry Tiger, a family-owned landmark at East Burnside Street and Southeast 28th Avenue.

But it's a new beginning, too.

The Hungry Tiger Too has opened nearby on Southeast 12th Avenue, and the Cohens plan to launch a more upscale restaurant on their corner once the redevelopment is complete.

"It's really with a heavy heart that we're doing this," says Ann Cohen, sitting in the empty restaurant after it closed late last month. "We have very strong ties with the community."

Cohen's parents, Sun and Rosie Wong, opened the Sun and Rosie Restaurant and Lounge in 1964. Ann and her five siblings grew up three blocks away.

Eventually, the kids took over the family business. Ann and her four surviving siblings own the half block of property where the restaurant sat, which includes three other storefronts the family leased through the years.

Ann and Alan own the restaurant and renamed it more than 20 years ago. It was like a neighborhood living room, Ann says, known for chop suey and potato salad.

But as the Kerns neighborhood began to gentrify, the building that housed the restaurant began to fall apart. A few years ago, it became apparent that the family would have to spend about $1 million to refurbish it.

"We're looking at that," Alan says, "and thinking there would be almost no return."

So they began considering alternatives and asked developer Randy Rapaport for help.

Rapaport, a family friend, is known for redeveloping underused properties in dense urban neighborhoods by building big and architecturally daring mixed-use projects.

He had wanted to buy the property from the family and rebuild it himself. But he agreed to serve as the developer.

The family will maintain ownership of the four ground-floor commercial spaces, which will be topped by 32 condos on three floors. Rapaport hopes to break ground by May and open the new development by June 2008. All the leased businesses on the property have closed, and demolition could start as early as April.

The name of the new project? The SunRose Condominiums. It'll still be a family business, but something Ann Cohen never imagined growing up.

"My dad had six kids," she says. "He sent us all through college. Once you go to college, you never think you're going to come back and run the family noodle joint."

Stephen Beaven: 503-294-7663; stevebeaven@news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/portland_news/1170892515275740.xml&coll=7

[tworivers]

'Bout time. I'm tired of biking by that vacant lot.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/391611631_658d416bac.jpg?v=0

www.backbridgestation.com is updated, too, including mention of the "Bakery Blocks" directly to the south.

[zilfondel]

Sweet! Sweet! Sweet!

This is all great news - it's like Christmas all over again!

Perhaps we should have a meet over burgers once the Hungry Tiger Too opens? That'd be kind of cool...

And the fact that backbridgestation & the bakery development are continuing is just awesome for the Mississippi neighborhood & Nopo.

From what I've learned recently of the development industry, most new projects don't really get started at the end of the year... they just go dormant until the beginning of the new year due to accounting & time schedules of gettin' stuff done. This explains why a lot of projects enter 'limbo' status during Fall & Winter...

[MarkDaMan]

Brewery Blocks, than Montgomery Blocks, now Bakery Blocks...Is this like the NoPo, SoWa, NoLo, LoBu?

[der Reisender]

Found this on the Myhre Group site whilst bored at work, called City Plaza. Will be mixed use with office, retail, and 90 affordable housing units. I can't for the life of me figure out where this will be though...has anybody heard of it?

http://myhregroup.com/images/projects/couch_plaza-large.jpg

http://myhregroup.com/images/projects/Couch_close-large.jpg

http://myhregroup.com/images/projects/Couch-Birdseye-Large.jpg

[bvpcvm]

found it. i'm such a nerd.

i noticed it's on a 4-lane street, and based on the shadows i figured it must be oriented N-S. then i just checked for locations on major N-S streets with an L-shaped building with a white roof facing the NE corner of the block opposite (based on the "bird's eye" view). the apparent street grid had me confused; spent a long time looking around gateway. ah, google earth!

so here you go - large vacant lot at 181st just N of Burnside:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/bvpcvm/map.jpg

[der Reisender]

wow, i'm impressed you were able to find it! impressed too to see this level of density and what appears to be pretty decent design so very far out. hope to see this built sometime

[sirsimon]

That *is* impressive! You gave it far more thought than I did. I just thought, "hmmm, I wonder if this design is intended for Portland or somewhere else." :)

[Urbanpdx]

Wow, that is great detective work. I thought I was good at that stuff but I am humbled.

[der Reisender]

was out biking for several hours today and found the poetically named 'Sophia's View' project, located off of Macadam on SW Seymour Court. Though the name is painful, it looks like it will be a pretty decent little project altogther...plus they have broken ground and are stirring up mud as we speak

http://www.sophiasview.com/images/index/home_img.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/393429650_cd0eb74f12.jpg

[Dougall5505]

dang beat me too it i took those same pictures today!

[mcbaby]

very interesting.. will there be bioswales?

[sirsimon]

^ Not bad. In the renderings it makes me think of 1980s "futuristic". It will be interesting to see what the finished product looks like. I love buildings that are built on a hill.

[zilfondel]

CTLH neighborhood is going to be quite the dense, mid-to-low rise neighborhood...

[der Reisender]

mcbaby, i have no idea about bioswales. the website didn't offer much info about it. my biggest concern about the site itself was connectivity. it backs up to the hill on a dead-end road off macadam, though the renderings make it look like they might connect to Corbett and people will be able to walk then

[zilfondel]

^^^ Wouldn't ADA make that illegal tho? If you create a pedestrian connection it's illegal if it doesn't meet ADA, although stairways can be used outdoors as a shortcut, as long as there is also a ramp or elevator that provides access.

[der Reisender]

so i looked in more detail at the condo building on their website (www.sophiasview.com). the floor plan details show that the lobby will be on the 2nd floor, with a little entry area fronting onto Corbett connected by 3-4 steps and what looks like a ramp. meant to post the link sooner, but i spaced on it

[der Reisender]

on another note, the Trib ran this in the paper today:

SOUTHWEST
Watershed’s in progress

Work has started in earnest on the Watershed, the mixed-use development in the Bertha Triangle in Hillsdale.

The project is being built by the nonprofit Community Partners for Affordable Housing Inc. at the intersection of Southwest Capitol Highway, Bertha Court and Bertha Boulevard.

When finished, the project will offer 51 units of rental housing for seniors, with 40 of them available to those with incomes at or below 30 percent of median income, currently $15,270 per year. The project also will include a 2,000-square-foot community center along with market-rate office and commercial space.

The Watershed features several green-building techniques, including rooftop plantings and an energy-efficient gas heating system. Landscaping will include native plants, and storm water will be stored and treated to help maintain water quality in local creeks’ watersheds.

[tworivers]

According to http://www.worksarchitecture.net, Bside6 is scheduled to begin construction as expected in "early spring 2007", and even the Yamhill building is listed as starting "early 2007".

Previous Bside6 discussion here (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=117600).
I am salivating. I hope this is a harbinger of things to come in PDX.

[MarkDaMan]

Bside6 is probably in my top 3 most anticipated projects.

[zilfondel]

Like I said before, most projects don't get started until the beginning of the year...

[WonderlandPark]

Bside6 is probably in my top 3 most anticipated projects.

Same here, drive by it on the way to work every day and keep hoping to see a backhoe or something parked there ready to dig.

[Dougall5505]

here are some pictures of H45 from their website
http://www.h45online.com/images/indexImgMain.jpg
http://www.h45online.com/images/construction/0202_1L.jpg

http://www.h45online.com/images/construction/0202_2L.jpg

http://www.h45online.com/images/construction/0202_3L.jpg

http://www.h45online.com/images/construction/0202_4L.jpg

[zilfondel]

H45's design is really flat. I guess it reflects the fact they built it using tilt-up concrete construction, but it really doesn't fit very well on Hawthorne. A pity, really...

[MarkDaMan]

City Council thwarts Northwest parking garage
Daily Journal of Commerce
by Kennedy Smith
02/23/2007


After hours of testimony that stretched late into the evening, city commissioners Sam Adams and Eric Sten and Mayor Tom Potter on Wednesday voted to uphold a neighborhood association’s appeal of the Historical Landmarks Commission’s approval of a parking garage proposed for Northwest Portland. Commissioners Dan Saltzman and Randy Leonard issued the opposing votes.

It’s been one of the Alphabet District’s most contentious issues: The Historical Landmarks Commission had approved a parking structure at 2311-2317 N.W. Irving St., but neighbors protested strongly, with 36 residents signing up to testify Wednesday against the development.

City Council must now collect its findings on specifically why it voted to uphold the neighborhood association’s appeal. Those findings are expected to be issued March 21.

The neighborhood association in its appeal argued that the Portland Design Commission and the Historical Landmarks Commission – which must approve new development in historic districts – were wrong to approve the proposed structure because it wouldn’t, they said, meet all of the requirements of the Northwest District Plan, a land-use planning document adopted in 2003 by City Council.

“I’m not here out of a sense of the inevitable,” John Bradley, chairman of land-use planning for the Northwest District Neighborhood Association, told the mayor and commissioners, “but the project doesn’t meet the area’s characteristics and traditions.”

Part of the Northwest District Plan states that any new development must conform to the Alphabet District’s historic “sense of place,” Bradley said. Residents who spoke out against the proposed garage said the design of the structure doesn’t take into consideration children’s safety, the pedestrian-friendly atmosphere of the neighborhood or decreased air quality.

Kim Carlson of the neighborhood association said the structure would “invite vagrants.”

Jeff Joslin of the Historical Landmarks Commission said the decision could have gone either way.

“In this case, part of the message (City Council) was delivering was that in this location the guidelines pertaining to safety had higher value than other guidelines pertaining specifically to design quality,” he said.

The Historical Landmarks Commission is part of the city’s Bureau of Development Services. Joslin, a land-use manager, administers urban design, design review and historic landmarks programs for the city.

The proposed 105-stall garage was planned by Richard Singer, a Portland developer. Holst Architecture designed the proposed structure. Joslin said Singer and his development team would take their case to the state Land Use Board of Appeals, which has the power to overturn City Council’s decision or return the appeal to council for yet another vote.

http://www.djc-or.com/viewStory.cfm?recid=28956&userID=1

[Drmyeyes]

Kill it. Make them do underground or forget about increased retail specific parking entirely. Problem solved.

[anp]

Kill it. Make them do underground or forget about increased retail specific parking entirely. Problem solved.

A large part of this area is already developed or occupied by historic buildings. Since underground parking could only be built as part of a new, large development, would it really address the parking and congestion issues being discussed? (Disclaimer: I'm not in favor of the Irving Street garage).

[Drmyeyes]

anp, what parking and congestion issues being discussed are you referring to? The parking issues the neighborhood is having are directly related to the intensified retail activity on 23rd. Who, other than the car driving retail customers, could the planned Irving St parking facility be intended to serve?

Congestion on 23rd? I've never found that to be a problem on foot. Doesn't seem like bike riders or streetcar riders have a problem with congestion either.

Let the neighborhood business boosters build parking facilities big enough for their retail trade, with the least possible intrusion upon the residents of the neighborhood. I understand the lot where the garage is going has a decent old house sitting on it. If they want the garage, let them move it temporarily, build, then move it back.

More stuff is coming in, more structures are planned. Below ground would work as well as any parking structure can to solve parking and congestion issues, it's just harder to make projects using it pencil out.

[Drmyeyes]

anp, what parking and congestion issues being discussed are you referring to? The parking issues the neighborhood is having are directly related to the intensified retail activity on 23rd. Who, other than the car driving retail customers, could the planned Irving St parking facility be intended to serve?

Congestion on 23rd? I've never found that to be a problem on foot. Doesn't seem like bike riders or streetcar riders have a problem with congestion either.

Let the neighborhood business boosters build parking facilities big enough for their retail trade, with the least possible intrusion upon the residents of the neighborhood. I understand the lot where the garage is going has a decent old house sitting on it. If they want the garage, let them move it temporarily, build, then move it back.

More stuff is coming in, more structures are planned. Below ground would work as well as any parking structure can to solve parking and congestion issues, it's just harder to make projects using it pencil out.

[oregone]

I know this is just a trifle, but please don't forget about us wealth-deficient people that work at Starbucks or Anna Bananas or Three Monkeys or City Market or Wildwood or Kitchen Fricking Kaboodle that can't afford to live within bus distance of NW and have to drive our crappy '89 Subaru Justy from the lowly Kenton or Portsmouth neighborhood. The #4 just doesn't work with our schedule because--and I'm sure we all have experienced this--it doesn't get us back to our second job on time.

[mcbaby]

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=117218484541152300

Council backs garage appeal
Mayor, worried about safety, sides with foes of Northwest parking lot
By peter korn

The Portland Tribune, Feb 23, 2007

In a surprise decision Wednesday night, the Portland City Council voted in support of an appeal by the Northwest Portland neighborhood association that could defeat plans for a parking garage behind Papa Haydn restaurant on Northwest 23rd Avenue.

The decision came in the form of a 3-2 vote agreeing with the appeal, which was based on the premise that the design of the proposed garage did not fit into the neighborhood both because of its appearance and its impact on pedestrians.

The proposed garage has long been a point of contention between Northwest developer Richard Singer and members of the Northwest District Association.

Singer and supporters in the Nob Hill Business Association say the garage is needed for the ever-increasing number of shoppers in the Northwest business district.

City commissioners Sam Adams and Erik Sten voted in support of the appeal, and Randy Leonard and Dan Saltzman voted against.

John Doussard, Mayor Tom Potter’s spokesman, said the mayor was concerned about safety issues if the garage is built.

The vote does not necessarily seal the fate of the proposed two-level, 103-stall garage. The still-unanswered question is whether Potter might yet vote for a garage design at the proposed location near 23rd Avenue and Irving Street if a new design mitigated the impact on pedestrians.

Veronica Valenzuela, the mayor’s liaison with the bureau of planning, said developers have two options for keeping the garage alive as a result of the Wednesday night decision. They can appeal the City Council decision to the state Land Use Board of Appeals, or they can submit a new application with a new garage design to the city’s landmarks commission.

Kim Carlson, co-chair of the neighborhood association transportation committee, was among those who testified Wednesday. Carlson said that it was her impression that even a redesign of the garage might not sway the mayor.

“What I was hearing (from the mayor) was this location was not the right location,” she said.

Data was presented at Wednesday’s meeting that showed the Northwest 23rd Avenue and Irving Street corner — where cars would access the proposed garage — is among the city’s busiest pedestrian locations. The survey counted 829 pedestrians at the corner in an hour.

peterkorn@portlandtribune.com

[Drmyeyes]

That's a good point oregone, and consideration ought to be given wealth deficient service employees that can only get to their job in their hooptees. Somehow though, I'm just not convinced that Richard Singer and all the others in the business community in that neighborhood want to build the parking structure for a bunch of low-wage employee vehicles.

[MitchE]

There is a big hole w/ a crane at the corner of N. Russell and Mississippi. Does anybody know what this is going to be? Portland Maps has no information.

[sirsimon]

That isn't for the Widmer Brewery expansion is it?

[MOPIdaho]

It is going to be part of the Widmer compound.

[der Reisender]

what exactly are they putting in for their expansion?

[EastPDX]

I believe there was a doubling of capacity and storage annoucement six months ago(?).

My thoughts on the North Albina Triangle down the road is to narrow all the streets to create an "Old World Feel" for a entertainment area North of the Blanchard property (hoped for MLB Stadium site/refer to oregonstadiumcampaign.com for this concept). Make it a non-auto district as much as possible (only have some restrictive freight/emergency routes. Pubs/Hostels/Resturants and Apartments could easily keep investors very pleased down the road and be next to a MLB Stadium/Rose Quarter. It would be a district for young adults that wish to be close to the action (shopping/jobs/events/central location) but can't afford condos.

Ray Whitford

[mcbaby]

they should run the streetcar on nw 23rd. if they do decide to place it on burnside then they should run it up to 23rd and have it connect with the existing line. that should help curb the need for employee parking.

[bvpcvm]

ideally, it should go up to thurman and then over to montgomery park!

[tworivers]

ideally, it should go up to thurman and then over to montgomery park!

Hmmm... now that would be convenient, wouldn't it? ;)

[Drmyeyes]

Hey! Why why aren't you guys working for the city or Tri-met? Them's there now can't seem to figure those obvious parking solutions out.

[65MAX]

With a Burnside streetcar, you'd have a stop at 23rd & Burnside, plus a stop at 23rd and Marshall. Why would you need to run the streetcar up 23rd? People WALK that street, so stops at either end would be perfect. I would like to see the current alignment extended to Montgomery Park though.

[Dougall5505]

Closed Washington High School could be turned into condos
Posted by Scott Learn February 26, 2007 21:47PM
Categories: Breaking News, Portland
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2007/02/closed_washington_high_school.html
Portland Public Schools moved closer Monday night to cinching a deal that would convert shuttered Washington High School into condominiums and build a second condo building on the former school property.
On Monday night, the district's board unanimously authorized its real estate arm to negotiate a sale to Beam Development. Beam wants to buy the two 1.3-acre properties in inner-Southeast for roughly $7 million down and potential "profit sharing" with the school district of $2.2 million to $2.8 million more. The properties were appraised at $9.25 million in 2006.
Beam's preliminary plan calls for first developing the high school building at Southeast 14th Avenue and Stark Street into 57 condos, a mix of market-rate and "workforce" housing at lower prices.
Beam, which wants historic tax credits for the development, says it would preserve the 1922 building's brick-clad shell, and maintain as many interior elements as possible. The condos would range from 625 to 1,745 square feet, with lofts in top floor units.
District officials cautioned that the deal -- four years in the making -- is preliminary. The neighborhood and the developer have to hammer out details, too.
One risk: If the profit-sharing doesn't materialize, the district could be left with less money than the property's appraised value.
But the deal could mark the most significant redevelopment in the district's recent history and would alleviate neighborhood concerns about the school being torn down.
Beam's proposal addresses a third of the high school property. The district sold the other two-thirds to the city of Portland in 2003. City officials want to build a community center, although that would likely require a new parks bond.
Beam, run by Brad Malsin, was the sole bidder on the project. Malsin is known for historic redevelopment and building flexible workspaces. His team includes Walsh Construction.
On the second parcel, a mostly vacant lot at 14th and Morrison, Malsin proposes a five-story building with roughly 90 condos and townhouses.
scottlearn@news.oregonian.com

[MarkDaMan]

McMenamins buys Masonic Temple in North Portland
by Kennedy Smith
02/27/2007
Daily Journal of Commerce


Ethos Music Center, a music education promotion organization, will sell its 16,245-square-foot Masonic Temple at 5308 N. Commercial Ave. to McMenamins for $675,000.

Ethos will use the funds from the building sale to increase its music education programs and complete renovations of its 7,500-square-foot headquarters at 10 N. Killingsworth St.

About two months ago, the board of directors for Ethos decided to start making informal queries about developers’ interests in the building, said Charles Lewis, Ethos’ executive director and founder.

“We told McMenamins it wasn’t for sale but asked, ‘If it were, would you be interested?’” he said. “They said ‘yes.’”

Originally built in 1923, the Masonic Temple has been boarded up and vacant since a fire rendered it uninhabitable in 1987. Ethos bought the building in 2003 for $320,000. Meanwhile, McMenamins purchased the Little Chapel of the Chimes next door to the temple and renovated it into what’s now known as the Chapel Pub.

Ethos will still have limited use of the building. McMenamins agreed to allow Ethos to use the Masonic Temple for community events once renovations are complete. McMenamins is currently donating the use of the Crystal Ballroom at East Burnside and 20th Avenue to Ethos once a year for a community concert.

Ethos reported that McMenamins will conduct an instrument drive for Ethos as a celebration of the acquisition. During May, donors can drop off musical instruments for Ethos at any McMenamins establishment.

“We’ll be handing over the keys in March,” Lewis said.

McMenamins is keeping a tight lip on what the company might do with the building, but precedent suggests it could be renovated into a restaurant, pub, brewery, hotel or any combination thereof.

“They have a great reputation in the community for restoring old buildings like this, so it seems like a natural fit,” Lewis said.

White Dog Construction is the contractor for the building. Scott McIntire, president of White Dog, said the company would begin construction next week.

http://www.djc-or.com/viewStory.cfm?recid=28971&userID=1

[anp]

anp, what parking and congestion issues being discussed are you referring to? The parking issues the neighborhood is having are directly related to the intensified retail activity on 23rd. Who, other than the car driving retail customers, could the planned Irving St parking facility be intended to serve?

Congestion on 23rd? I've never found that to be a problem on foot. Doesn't seem like bike riders or streetcar riders have a problem with congestion either.

Let the neighborhood business boosters build parking facilities big enough for their retail trade, with the least possible intrusion upon the residents of the neighborhood. I understand the lot where the garage is going has a decent old house sitting on it. If they want the garage, let them move it temporarily, build, then move it back.

More stuff is coming in, more structures are planned. Below ground would work as well as any parking structure can to solve parking and congestion issues, it's just harder to make projects using it pencil out.


Sorry, I haven't been online much the last few days, so this discussion now seems to be ancient history, but I'd still like to respond. Drmyeyes, I actually agree with your points. I only questioned the feasibility of underground parking because it seems less likely to be built in the short term, and I wouldn't want to see housing or historic buildings removed for construction of underground parking either (though moving a building and then putting it back on top of the garage could be OK).

I just realized that my post was based partly on the Oregonian's article on the proposed parking garage, which wasn't posted on this thread. I've pasted it into the end of this post. The article suggests that cars circling through residential streets looking for parking is causing congestion in adjacent residential areas, so the parking discussion isn't solely about benefitting businesses. I assume that retail customers taking up many spots on residential streets may also be a problem for residents. One of the people interviewed by the Oregonian suggests that other parking management strategies (resident parking permits, etc.) could alleviate some of the problems. I agree that the primary responsibility for providing any additional customer parking should rest with businesses, and that underground parking would be the best type of parking. I also agree with you that parking facilities should not be located outside of commercial areas.


http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/portland_news/1172197524310800.xml&coll=7&thispage=2

Council blocks parking garage
Northwest - Plans for a three-level, 103-space structure on Irving are in limbo after the decision
Friday, February 23, 2007
FRED LEESON
The Oregonian
Three mayors said "no" late Wednesday to a proposed Northwest Portland parking garage.

The most important was Mayor Tom Potter. His vote broke a 2-2 deadlock and scuttled plans for a 103-stall, three-level structure at 2311 N.W. Irving St., flush behind Papa Haydn restaurant.

Potter's vote ended a 31/2 hour session in which 54 people testified, almost evenly divided for and against the garage. Two previous mayors, Bud Clark and Vera Katz, argued against it.

"I have to smile when I hear people say we need garages to reduce traffic," said Katz, whose testimony was presented via a digital disk. "That's not the Portland way."

The decision continues a 12-year stalemate in Northwest Portland, where businesses and residents struggle with high traffic counts and cars that circle block after block looking for parking. It's a shared problem, but so far there is no shared solution.

Potter said testimony was eloquent on both sides, but his mind was affected by a recent walking tour. "In this particular case, I side with the neighborhood," he said, backing an appeal filed by the Northwest District Association. "This garage would be better suited somewhere else."

Potter, along with Commissioners Sam Adams and Erik Sten, listed pedestrian safety as a primary reason for opposing the garage. The corner at Northwest Irving Street and 23rd Avenue is one of the city's most-heavily used by pedestrians, city counts show.

The Irving Street site was chosen by the City Council in 2003 as one of six potential sites for garages. That, too, was an emotional 3-2 vote, in which Katz -- then mayor -- was on the losing side with Sten.

The garage design had to be approved by the Portland Historic Landmarks Commission because the site sits in the Alphabet Historic District. That allowed the neighborhood association another attack by appealing the landmarks body's approval. Two design guidelines referred to enhancing pedestrian networks and minimizing impacts on pedestrians.

Sten said the council was wrong in 2003. "We are nowhere closer to having a parking plan," he said.

After the vote, Richard Singer, whose family owns several retail properties and who proposed the garage, sat quietly talking with two lawyers. There was no immediate decision on appealing the council's decision to the state Land Use Board of Appeals.

It was a big victory for the neighborhood association, which lost the parking vote in 2003 and lost another City Council vote in 2005 over a 14-story condominium. It was a setback for the Nob Hill Business Association and several business owners who wanted the garage.

"I'm very pleased," said John Bradley, a resident who led the successful appeal. "The take-home message is that we really have to work on some other parking solution first. This was absolutely the worst site."

Half of the 10,000-square-foot site was zoned residential and half commercial. Construction of the garage would have required demolition of an old house that has been carved into several rental units.

It was a sensitive point in a neighborhood where many homes have been lost to surface parking through the decades. Former Mayor Clark called the residential land "sacred ground."

What happens next? Christopher Smith, who led an earlier Northwest parking plan, suggested reverting to the 2002 recommendations that urge metered parking, residential permits and creation of a transportation management association that would work with employers to reduce traffic.

Smith said retailers are still attracted to successful Northwest commercial streets without new parking.

Fred Leeson: 503-294-5946; fredleeson@news.oregonian.com

[Drmyeyes]

Thanks for that thoughtful response anp. Reading the article you've posted has me wondering what or if planners or anyone else concerned with NW district planning issues have conducted surveys to get an estimation of just who is represented by the people the article refers to;

"...cars that circle block after block looking for parking.

This might be a fairly manageable survey to conduct. I'd be really interested to learn just what kind of person coming to 23rd for shopping/dinging actually believes they can find on street parking. Even 3-4 years ago, I gave it up because I found it to be hopeless. I've got a feeling a lot of the people circling are newbies attracted to the 23rd experience through word of mouth who haven't got wind of the parking situation.

It just seems very interesting how these kinds of conclusions that more parking is needed get started and then become implemented into a big physical intrusion upon a fundamentally well established, healthy neighborhood.

Maybe the conclusions of the 2002 NW district plan (think that's it) should be re-examined along with the methods used to draw them. If parking facilities really are needed, I'd hope the city would really take more of an initiative in promoting underground facilities over above ground. Really though, encouraging streetcar use over driving as it relates to visits to the neighborhood for shopping and dining would be far better than any parking facility.

The following exerpt from the article is important:

"Potter, along with Commissioners Sam Adams and Erik Sten, listed pedestrian safety as a primary reason for opposing the garage. The corner at Northwest Irving Street and 23rd Avenue is one of the city's most-heavily used by pedestrians, city counts show."

Garage or not, an excess of cars on the street is a problem. To win their argument, proponents would have to persuasively convince skeptics and critics that a garage would help to reduce that excess.