[SpongeG]

Greater Vancouver’s high gas prices are again drawing complaints from motorists who feel they’re being gouged by oil companies.

Wayne Wittal, Surrey campus director for CDI College, says the pump prices of around $1 here are “obscene” compared to Toronto, where motorists are paying as little as 76 cents a litre.

“Something’s wrong,” he said. “Our gas should be cheaper, excluding that extra levy we pay for transportation in the Lower Mainland. Our price should be maybe five or six cents a litre more than theirs.”

It’s not that simple, says Calgary-based energy analyst Michael Ervin, of M.J. Ervin and Associates.

“Toronto’s kind of a funny market,” he said, noting recent price wars there have meant wild swings lately of as much as 20 cents over the course of a day.

Ervin’s latest weekly survey pegs the average price in Toronto at 87.3 cents, compared to 98.2 cents in Vancouver, and he says Toronto motorists with good timing have been able to buy gas at 20-plus cents below Vancouver prices.

Still, it’s not that surprising.

Greater Vancouver drivers pay 12 cents extra per litre that goes directly to TransLink, accounting for much of the difference.

In Calgary, where drivers have been paying an average 80 cents a litre lately, provincial taxes are also a factor. Albertans pay less than the 8.5 cents per litre B.C. charges.

Once all other taxes — the 10 cent per litre federal excise tax and six per cent GST, which is charged on both the gas price and all the taxes — are factored out, Ervin says prices across Canada’s major centres are surprisingly close.

The non-taxed fuel cost charged in Vancouver was 62.2 cents this week, versus 60 cents in Kamloops, 56.8 cents in Calgary and 57.6 cents in Toronto.

Some motorists also feel gas prices haven’t dropped as much as they should have based on the fall in oil prices in recent months.

“In actual fact, we have seen prices fall by a considerable amount since summer,” Ervin said.

“People’s memories seem to be fairly short on prices going down, but they have a longer memory on prices going up.”

One report on gas prices by Natural Resources Canada argues it could be much worse, noting crude oil prices have tripled since early 2002.

“It would have been worse for the Canadian consumer, if not for the dramatic appreciation in the Canadian dollar,” the study concludes, estimating pump prices would be 16 cents a litre higher if the dollar had not climbed from its low of US $0.62.

Locally, Langley drivers get a very close-up view of the difference that taxes make in determining the retail price of gasoline. While stations in Langley City are currently selling gas for close to $1 per litre, stations in Aldergrove often sell it for five to eight cents less per litre, in order to compete with stations across the Abbotsford boundary line, where TransLink gas taxes do not apply.

On Thursday night, prices in Langley City were 99.9 cents per litre; in Aldergrove 95.9 cents per litre and across the Abbotsford boundary, the price for regular gas was 88.9 cents per litre.

http://www.langleytimes.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=47&cat=23&id=784151&more=

[feepa]

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3859/gasprices2kt3.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3198/gaspriceskm5.jpg

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/4104/gaspricesusin1.jpg

[SpongeG]

my brother works in northern alberta and he has to pay $1.45/litre cause there is only one gas station - well his company ends up paying for it but yikes

[Coldrsx]

edmonton is 0.84 but then take 3 c off.

[zivan56]

One word sums it up: collusion.

[murman]

One word sums it up: collusion.

You're right. I'll just ignore that mountain of evidence regarding TAXES being the major differentiation between jurisdictions.

[freeweed]

It's not so much collusion as it is the nature of the market. The big oil companies use real-time tracking software to monitor the exact price at stations all over the country, and use this data to update (often many times per day) the local pump price.

It's a positive feedback effect, whereby when one station bumps their price by a penny or two, suddenly EVERYBODY does it. It LOOKS like collusion, but it's not.

And, as pointed out, taxes have far more impact on what you pay at the pump. Gasoline sales are pretty much loss-leaders these days - the oil companies make money on the production and refining end, of course, but there's little to no profit coming from the pumps. In theory it's made up with convenience store sales, car washes, etc.

Someone did a quick study a couple of years back, and found that without Safeway/Superstore/etc artificially keeping pump prices low, we'd all be paying $1.20 or so per litre on a regular basis. Safeway and Superstore take a huge loss on gas in the hopes that this drives their supermarket business.

[drew]

Someone did a quick study a couple of years back, and found that without Safeway/Superstore/etc artificially keeping pump prices low, we'd all be paying $1.20 or so per litre on a regular basis. Safeway and Superstore take a huge loss on gas in the hopes that this drives their supermarket business.

I can't see how that makes sense? If this was the case, every single gas retailer has been losing ridiculous amounts of $$ for the past couple years.

I am pretty sure the only retailers that "gas wars" hurt are the one-off mom and pop kind of service stations.

BTW - Winnipeg has been 89.9 (minus 3.5 cents) for the past month or so.

[mersar]

Someone did a quick study a couple of years back, and found that without Safeway/Superstore/etc artificially keeping pump prices low, we'd all be paying $1.20 or so per litre on a regular basis. Safeway and Superstore take a huge loss on gas in the hopes that this drives their supermarket business.

Correct.

My dad formerly worked for Safeway, and he told me that the one year totals for the gas bar at the Cochrane store worked out to a $500 profit for the entire year. And considering they probaly average at least $25-50k in gas sales a week (the store itself does somewhere around $1 million), it really is a huge loss leader.

[IntotheWest]

Wow...still high across the country. The last fill I made last week was about $.72 in south Calgary (with discount).

[freeweed]

I can't see how that makes sense? If this was the case, every single gas retailer has been losing ridiculous amounts of $$ for the past couple years.

See mersar's post. See also convenience sales and car washes. Gasoline is just about a break-even product these days, and often not even that. And yes, the mom 'n' pop stores are just about gone as a result.

[Dalreg]

It's not so much collusion as it is the nature of the market. The big oil companies use real-time tracking software to monitor the exact price at stations all over the country, and use this data to update (often many times per day) the local pump price.

It's a positive feedback effect, whereby when one station bumps their price by a penny or two, suddenly EVERYBODY does it. It LOOKS like collusion, but it's not.

And, as pointed out, taxes have far more impact on what you pay at the pump. Gasoline sales are pretty much loss-leaders these days - the oil companies make money on the production and refining end, of course, but there's little to no profit coming from the pumps. In theory it's made up with convenience store sales, car washes, etc.

Someone did a quick study a couple of years back, and found that without Safeway/Superstore/etc artificially keeping pump prices low, we'd all be paying $1.20 or so per litre on a regular basis. Safeway and Superstore take a huge loss on gas in the hopes that this drives their supermarket business.


One fact wrong here. Knowing a few managers/operators of gas stations. It is not up to the owner/operator to raise prices. The word comes from the corporations. When the phone rings and they tell you to raise prices you do. So it is a type of collusion. Or more so monkey see monkey do.

[freeweed]

One fact wrong here. Knowing a few managers/operators of gas stations. It is not up to the owner/operator to raise prices. The word comes from the corporations. When the phone rings and they tell you to raise prices you do. So it is a type of collusion. Or more so monkey see monkey do.

That's exactly what I meant by "real-time tracking software". Imperial sees a local market going up, they call their local stations and tell them to raise their prices accordingly (and vice-versa, of course).

It definitely looks and feels like collusion, but it's not the secret weekly meeting of oil execs rubbing their hands together saying "what should we gouge the public for this week *evil laughs*" that people think.

[poopysheep]

My cousins family owns 5 gas stations here in Calgary - Centex - anyway he has said that the sale of just gasoline makes very little money and they've recently purchases a car wash... now THERE is some money...

[SpongeG]

I was in a gas station (Shell downtown on Davie) and the guy at the counter was busy doing the 1 AM price change. He had a binder with instructions and he called a number and punched things in and the price changed at 1 am.

[mersar]

they've recently purchases a car wash... now THERE is some money...
Yep. The former ESSO station in town closed down years ago, and the owners tore it down and built a huge car wash on the site. And they just expanded it again this past year (8 bays of self wash, and 2 touchless). From what I've heard they're making a killing out of it.

[SpongeG]

so is this 3.5 cents off all over Canada? I heard it started in Alberta a while ago - BC got into a few years after that

[mersar]

In some places. Lots of stations in Calgary were doing it at the height of the price rises, not as many do now however since things have stabilized some. Some such as Safeway will run promotions as high as 7 cents off still however.

[freeweed]

so is this 3.5 cents off all over Canada? I heard it started in Alberta a while ago - BC got into a few years after that

Manitoba, home of the discount, started doing this many many years ago. Dunno who was actually first, AB or MB, but my money's on MB :)

[Greco Roman]

In Saskatchewan, the discount is only available in Moose Jaw. I've checked in Regina and Saskatoon, and they don't give anywhere in those cities, with or without memberships. WTF?????????

[SpongeG]

ah

here it seems Petro-Canada only gives it if you sign up for a petro points card - pretty much all the other stations give it automatically and some of the smaller places don't give it but they price their gas the same as the discounted price

[drew]

the 3.5 cents off is pretty stupid really. In Winnipeg, the only retailer that doesn't automatically give the discount at the pumps is Petro Canada, cuz if you are a PP member, you get 5.5 cents off...

In Winnipeg, most of the national chains are duking it out with the local Red River Co-op chain that is slowly monopolizing gas sales in the entire city...

[cslusarc]

I'm in Winnipeg too. Over the past few years since the RCSS (Westfair) and Canada Safeway started opening up gas stations we've seen Imperial Oil, Shell and others close service stations left, right and centre. I think Imperial Oil is down about 12 service stations in Winnipeg from their peak in the 1990s.

[Phil McAvity]

Greater Vancouver’s high gas prices are again drawing complaints from motorists who feel they’re being gouged by oil companies......................................................................................................................Greater Vancouver drivers pay 12 cents extra per litre that goes directly to TransLink, accounting for much of the difference.


You gotta love it when a writer misses the point of their own article.

[Nick]

Checking in from Yellowknife at 103.9 (same price for the last 4 months).

Gas buying tip: The cheapest time to buy gas is Sunday afternoon/Monday morning. Why? Prices never go up on weekends, but they do go down. Get gas before the companies raise the price on Monday to correct for the price drop that occured on the weekend. Part of a job I had for 7 years was to set prices for all our stations in Calgary and I never once raised the price on the weekend. In Vancouver I did the same thing for about a year and the same was true.

[vid]

For every dollar of gas you buy, the gas company makes nine cents. That's it. That's their markup. 9%.

For every dollar of viagra sold, Pfizer makes about 40 cents. That's the average markup of medicine.

For every dollar spent on a news paper, the news paper makes 19 cents.

We are NOT being gouged by gas companies. They are only making that much because we are buying that much. An 11 billion dollar profit means 990 billion dollars of gas was bought at gas stations.

[Nudrock]

An 11 billion dollar profit means 990 billion dollars of gas was bought at gas stations.

Not sure if you were meaning to exagerate your figures, but 122 billion (not 990) at 9% equates to 11 billion.
And of course, not all of their profit comes from gasoline stations. Profits also come from jet fuels, heating fuels, various oil and lubricant products, fuels that power our electricity plants, products that are changed into plastics for making garbage bags, computer cases, car parts, tupperware, CD jewel cases, childrens toys, adult toys etc etc.

[vid]

Sorry about that, it was 2.42am and I did the math on a scrap of paper. :P

[freeweed]

Sorry about that, it was 2.42am and I did the math on a scrap of paper. :P

You're just in cahoots with the evil oil companies, you apologist.

Excellent avatar, by the way! :tup:

[vid]

Thanks!

I'm not in cahoots with, what Jack Layton calls, 'Big Oil and Big Ass' but rather vehemently opposed to the absurd markup of other essential things, like medicines.

People think the gas companies our gouging us, but they really aren't. Not that much anyway. (They could easily afford to lower their profit margins) But no one does anything about how badly we are screwed by Pfizer or GSK.

[SpongeG]

on the way in today - sunday - gas was is 107.9

it was 106.6 friday and has been going up all weekend

[SHOFEAR]

So does that 9% figure inlcude the profit made by all subsidairy's or other companies along the way? The processing and refining part, transportation, Sales..etc

[SpongeG]

just went on my break - gas is gone up to 108.8 now

[vid]

So does that 9% figure inlcude the profit made by all subsidairy's or other companies along the way? The processing and refining part, transportation, Sales..etc

Probably not. I know for a fact that the actual gas stations cut is about 2%. Close to 50% of the price is taxes. I don't know if it is above or below, or how much above or below, but taxes do play a role. Those taxes should be reinvested into transportation infrastructure, especially public mass transit.

Processing, refining, transportation, sales, would probably take a good chunk. My guess is around 18-25% of the price. Could be more or less.

[DLLB]

I was in Vancouver on the weekend (Dec 15 - 16) and saw prices between 102.9 and 105.9 I thought that they must have shot up for some reason and that when I got back to Calgary they would be in the 95+ range. Well, not the case, they were in the 79.9 - 83.9 range. That is quite a difference!

[SpongeG]

WOW

today gas was around 108.5-109.1

last night it was 105.9

[mersar]

We went from 79.9 to 88.9 over night earlier this week. Who wants to bet it drops back to low 80's by January 5th?

[chuber]

^ no doubt. Edmonton went from 84.9 to 89.9

And I have to drive to Calgary and back twice over the holidays. I guess I will get a good chance to see if the cylinder deactivation feature on the 07 Yukons actually makes a difference on the highway compared to my old 05. lol

[Dalreg]

The travel spike has happened in Saskatchewan too. From 88.9 to 95.9 in Humboldt. I filled up before hand as I was expecting the jump. I say Jan 3rd the price drops again.

[ReginaGuy]

it jumped from 89 to 95 here in Moose Jaw a few days ago.. damnit

[SpongeG]

on the way in this morning it was 110.1 :O

[Mike K.]

I guess the only recourse at this point is to invest in oil. When prices go up, you have a reason to smile :shrug: