[Seasun]

Portlanders - I'm looking for input, especially if you know the Portland park that uses ipe wood as paving - I think it's near a (or the?) river - sorry I don't know the park name. I'm familiar with the basic characteristics (http://www.ipe-wood.com/index.html) of ipe (I've heard it pronounced e-pay) and I have held it so I know it's extremely durable, heavy and nice looking but I have some concerns about using this material at a Seattle park - no where near a body of water.

I recently went to a design meeting about the "Counterbalance Park" in the Lower Queen Anne neighborhood of Seattle. MAP showing site of new park (empty lot) (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=98109&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=47.625719,-122.356458&spn=0.0012,0.005407&t=h&om=0&iwloc=addr) park info here(link) (http://www.seattle.gov/parks/proparks/projects/counterbalance.htm) The designers, parks department representative and residents leading the park effort said they were considering using ipe wood for a significant portion of the park. The area in this drawing called "paving" (in case they can't raise enough money for the ipe instead of concrete or stone)
http://www.seattle.gov/parks/_images/pro%20parks/counterbalancePlan.jpg

The landscape architect (Murase and Associates) (http://www.murase.com/flash/index.html) showed a slide show that included a Portland park with this wood decking - that's why I'm hoping to learn what Portlanders think of the installation.

Here are my main questions:
1. If familiar with the PDX installation (or any other installations for that matter) - would you recommend doing a similar installation in Seattle?

2. The designers and some websites talk up "environmentally friendly" - While I understand this wood is durable and probably lasts a lot longer than local timber - it's not being proposed for a dock over water. It seems irresponsible to install tropical wood as a walking surface that could just as well be nice concrete or stone paving - which still have their own environmental impacts but should last a really long time and use local raw materials.

3. I've heard that to really maintain ipe it's suggested that it be oiled. Is this important or not at all needed? Seattle parks are generally maintained OK but I can't see parks workers oiling a deck.

Any other thoughts would be appreciated. The vast majority of this park's construction funding is coming from public sources so even though I don't live next to it - I'd like to see our tax dollars put to good use and not lead to major maintenance costs.

[WonderlandPark]

I don't know the name of the hardwood used around Jameson Park, in the Pearl District, but it has been there 2-3 years now and is holding up fine. Whether it is IPE I don't have the slightest idea, but it is a hardwood used in a sidewalk application in a heavy traffic area.

[Urbanpdx]

You guys probably wont approve of Ipe's effect on the rainforest.

[tworivers]

^^^ Well, I'd say that if you're going to buy ipe, at least make sure that it's FSC-certified (http://www.fsc.org).

[zilfondel]

Yes it is Ipe, and it should last at least 30+ years with no maintenance. I read that it is a kind of mahogany tree that comes from the rainforest; do your own research on it if you'd like. I would think, however, that logging in the rainforest is a pretty big issue...

[MitchE]

http://www.sinecosine.org/forums/ParksJamisonSqr01.jpg

[Seasun]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I came across a similar image as that from MitchE. It looks kind of like a computer generated rendering or a photoshopped photo - except the orange cone is kind of a bit of reality or just trying to make me think it's a real photo.

[MarkDaMan]

^no that's a real photo. It really is a great boardwalk, although I didn't know it was logged from a rainforest...that's kinda against the whole Pearl sustainable mantra. Would be interesting to see how it was choosen.

Here is another pic I took earlier this year of the most recent boardwalk extension grazing Tanner Springs Park

http://static.flickr.com/32/100165773_8002b83d03.jpg?v=1140035860

[PDX City-State]

The Belmont Lofts is made of ipe and is holding up fine after a couple of years.

[zilfondel]

Ipe won't burn; it's considered a fireproof cladding material for buildings. Since it lasts so long, and it can be harvested 'sustainably' (I don't know the details on this), it's considered an environmentally friendly alternative. You'd have to do an energy cost analysis of it compared to steel, concrete or brick - energy required to make/harvest vs. shipping.

[PacificNW]

From the ipe website:


Why use IPÊ over
other decking materials™

"IPÊ is an environmentally responsible choice which naturally resists rot, decay, insects, and mold without the use of toxic chemicals used in other decking products. It is naturally fire resistant and has been awarded an 'A1' rating.

Additionally, IPÊ is an incredibly strong, dense wood, harvested from naturally sustainable forests only. It has very high wear durability in daily use, and is resistant to splintering and checking.

It's also beautiful!"

[Urbanpdx]

Everything I have heard and read says IPE is NOT sustainable or responsibly harvested, can you please cite unbiased website that says otherwise? Thanks.

[PacificNW]

I suggest that you visit the "The Forest Stewardship Council" for additional info. I think they are biased towards world forest sustainability. I may be wrong.

http://www.fscus.org/

"The Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) is a non-profit organization devoted to encouraging the responsible management of the world's forests."

[Dr. Smoke]

You can get LEED points by buying only FSC-certified wood, which comes from forests that are supposedly "managed sustainably".

Personally, I am suspicious of that, even though it is sanctioned by the GBC. Now; recycling lumber is responsible, but certainly not to the degree that using bamboo flooring and paneling is. Now; you lose the LEED point with bamboo for locally-produced, but you gain the one for highly sustainable. Bamboo looks nice, and is very hard.

For outdoors, what's wrong with concrete pavers? They're produced locally, are very durable, and if they're made with a percentage of flyash or slag, is a recycled material. Even better if they're the special rain-pervious type, to prevent runoff.

Concrete rocks!
{cough}

[MarkDaMan]

Everything I have heard and read says IPE is NOT sustainable or responsibly harvested, can you please cite unbiased website that says otherwise? Thanks.

actually urbanpdx, the way it works is that you post your unbiased links that say it is unsustainable and the bloggers take that information and either verify it, or find out it's a bunch of crap, like that global warming report you posted.

[Urbanpdx]

I suggest that you visit the "The Forest Stewardship Council" for additional info. I think they are biased towards world forest sustainability. I may be wrong.

http://www.fscus.org/

"The Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) is a non-profit organization devoted to encouraging the responsible management of the world's forests."

Thanks, that is interesting, we changed several designs in the past because of IPE's reputation as being pretty irresponsible. It looks like there is IPE and there is FSC Ipe. I wonder how much of what is being used in Portland is FSC?

[Urbanpdx]

actually urbanpdx, the way it works is that you post your unbiased links that say it is unsustainable and the bloggers take that information and either verify it, or find out it's a bunch of crap, like that global warming report you posted.

Why so belecose this morning Mark?

[MarkDaMan]

belecose?

Nah, I'm not argumentative today at all...it's Friday after all! However, I'm curious as to what links you might have stating IPE is damaging to the rainforest because I couldn't google a link with negative information on IPE wood products...and you have to admit, that global warming article you posted was weak...so, I'm just saying, if demanding others to post their links, and asking they not be objectionable, than I think you should lead by example.

[Dr. Smoke]

I think Mark is pointing out that you have a track record of posting misinformation, Urbanpdx. We've busted you twice on that this week.

[Urbanpdx]

I wasn't demanding, I was asking them to do me the favor of posting the link so I could use the information in my practice.