[TheFuture3000]

OK so I just moved to California, and after collecting a few paycheck at my current job and seeing the high state tax rate compared to my previous home Texas. And seeing how high the apartment rental rates are, my question is how and when did California's state Economy get all screwed up? How and when did property and rental rates go sky high?
Why can't California get rid of the state tax like Washington state or Texas?

Please no flames ? I am new to California and I am just wondering how our state got so expensive?

[SoCal Alan]

OK so I just moved to California, and after collecting a few paycheck at my current job and seeing the high state tax rate compared to my previous home Texas. And seeing how high the apartment rental rates are, my question is how and when did California's state Economy get all screwed up? How and when did property and rental rates go sky high?
Why can't California get rid of the state tax like Washington state or Texas?

Please no flames ? I am new to California and I am just wondering how our state got so expensive?

Democrats.

[DJM19]

Its a hot commodity

[BTinSF]

California is not "so expensive". Parts of California, the desirable parts (more on that in a minute), are more expensive than much of America but not than equally desirable parts of America.

Let's look at the taxes you complain about:

State-Local Tax Burdens, Calendar Year 2005
Rank State State/Local taxes as
% of per capita income
U.S. average 10.10%
1 Maine 13.00%
2 New York 12.00%
3 Hawaii 11.50%
4 Rhode Island 11.40%
5 Wisconsin 11.40%
6 Vermont 11.10%
7 Ohio 11.00%
8 Nebraska 10.90%
9 Utah 10.90%
10 Minnesota 10.70%
11 Arkansas 10.50%
12 Connecticut 10.50%
13 West Virginia 10.50%
14 New Jersey 10.40%
15 Kansas 10.40%
16 Louisiana 10.40%
17 Maryland 10.30%
18 Indiana 10.30%
19 Kentucky 10.30%
20 California 10.30%
21 Arizona 10.20%
22 Michigan 10.10%
23 Wyoming 10.10%
24 Washington 10.00%
25 Iowa 10.00%
26 Mississippi 10.00%
27 Idaho 10.00%
28 North Carolina 10.00%
29 New Mexico 9.90%
30 Illinois 9.80%
31 Georgia 9.80%
32 Massachusetts 9.80%
33 South Carolina 9.70%
34 Virginia 9.70%
35 Pennsylvania 9.70%
36 Oregon 9.60%
37 Colorado 9.50%
38 Nevada 9.50%
39 Montana 9.50%
40 Oklahoma 9.40%
41 Missouri 9.40%
42 North Dakota 9.40%
43 Texas 9.30%
44 Florida 9.20%
45 South Dakota 8.80%
46 Alabama 8.70%
47 Tennessee 8.30%
48 Delaware 8.00%
49 New Hampshire 7.40%
50 Alaska 6.40%
District of Columbia 12.20%
Source: http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/index.html

So what you find is that California, at 10.3% of income, is very close to the national average for its total burden of state and local taxes, and it is only 1% higher than Texas.

"How can this be?", you will surely ask. let's look at the particulars:

CALIFORNIA
Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: 7.25% (food and prescription drugs exempt. Tax varies according to locality. Can be as high as 8.75%)
Gasoline Tax: * 41.6 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: * 38.3 cents/gallon
Gasohol Tax: * 41.6 cents/gallon
Cigarette Tax: 37 cents/pack of 20 plus an additional surcharge of 50 cents per pack, bringing the total to 87 cents.

Personal Income Taxes
Tax Rate Range: Low - 1.0%; High - 9.3%
Income Brackets: * Lowest - $6,319; Highest - $41,477
Number of Brackets: 6
Tax Credits: Single - $85; Married - $170; Dependents - $265; 65 years of age or older - $87
Standard Deduction: Single - $3,254; Married filing jointly - $6,508
Medical/Dental Deduction: Same as Federal taxes
Federal Income Tax Deduction: None
Retirement Income Taxes: Social Security and Railroad Retirement benefits are exempt. There is a 2.5% tax on early distributions and qualified pensions. All private, local, state and federal pensions are fully taxed.
Retired Military Pay: Follows federal tax rules.
Military Disability Retired Pay:
Disability Portion - Length of Service Pay; Member on September 24, 1975 - No tax; Not Member on September 24, 1975 - Taxed, unless combat incurred. Retired Pay - Based solely on disability: Member on September 24, 1975 - No tax; Not Member on September 24, 1975 - Taxed, unless all pay based on disability and disability resulted from armed conflict, extra-hazardous service, simulated war, or an instrumentality of war.
VA Disability Dependency and Indemnity Compensation: Not subject to federal or state taxes
Military SBP/SSBP/RCSBP/RSFPP: Generally subject to state taxes for those states with income tax. Check with state department of revenue office.

Property Taxes
Property is assessed at 100% of full cash value. The maximum amount of tax on real estate is limited to 1% of the full cash value. After taxes have been paid, homeowners 62 and older who earn $35,051 or less may file a claim for assistance on 96 percent of property taxes, up to $34,000 of the assessed value of their homes. Call 800-852-5711 or visit for details. Homestead exemptions are handled at the county level. Under the homestead program, the first $7,000 of the full value of a homeowner's dwelling is exempt. The state has a property tax postponement program that allows eligible homeowners (seniors, blind and disabled residents) to postpone payments of property taxes on their principal place of residence. Interest is charged on the postponed taxes. For more information, contact the California State Board of Equalization Office -- 800-400-7115.

Inheritance and Estate Taxes
There is no inheritance tax. However, there is a limited California estate tax related to federal estate tax collection.

TEXAS
Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: 6.25% (food, prescription and non-prescription drugs exempt); local option taxes can raise the rate to 8.25%.
Gasoline Tax: 20 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: 20 cents/gallon
Gasohol Tax: 20 cents/gallon
Cigarette Tax: 41 cents/pack of 20

Personal Income Taxes
No state personal income tax
Retirement Income: Not taxed.

Property Taxes
Property tax is imposed by local taxing units. For homeowners 65 and older, $10,000 (in addition to the regular $15,000 homestead exemption) of the property's assessed value is exempt from school taxes and $3,000 is exempt from other local taxes. Once an over-65 homeowner qualifies for an over-65 homestead exemption for school taxes, that owner gets a tax ceiling for that home on school taxes. If the homeowner improves the home (other than normal repairs or maintenance), the tax ceiling is adjusted for the new additions. School district taxes are frozen for seniors (65 and older) and disabled persons at the level imposed on the residence the first year that the taxpayer qualified for the residence exemption. Counties, cities, towns, and junior college districts are permitted to establish a tax freeze on homesteads of those age 65 and older or disabled. For more information on exemptions, click here.

Inheritance and Estate Taxes
There is no inheritance and the estate tax is limited and related to federal estate tax collection.


Since Texas does have about the same rate of total sales taxes (between 8 and 9%) as California and no income tax, I'm guessing much of the difference is made up by property taxes. That makes sense because California has Prop 13 which has limited increases for homeonwers since the mid 1970's. Unfortunately, you, as a newcomer, do not get much of the benefit of that until you have lived here a while but at least you can be assured, as I have been for over 20 years, that you are unlikely to have to move out of your long-time home when you retire because of high property taxes.

Why can't California live as cheaply as Texas? Well, it could. But it's citizens don't want to. California, first of all, has the nation's highest proportion of new immigrants, legal and illegal. Ultimately, it's arguable that these people contribute a lot to the economy and all you have to do is look at the names of Silicon valley CEO's and company founders to se that, but when they are newly arrived many of them need help and services that cost taxoayers money. Then there's the fact that CA has chosen to provide more generous health care benefits for poor people (MediCal) than most other states, provides state disability insurance, generous workmens' comp benefits and many other services.

And California is subsidizing other states more than Texas is. Approximately 83% of every dollar in Federal taxes Californians pay is spent in or for the benefit of Californians whereas the figure is 98% in Texas (source: http://www.nemw.org/taxburd.htm). Given the size of both states, that adds up to a lot of money California could use to cut local taxes if we could just get it back from the Feds.

Finally, as promised, let's come back to the matter of desirability. The cost of a lot of land and real estate in California is high because people want to live in California and those who can afford it are willing to pay more to do so. Since you recently moved to the state, I assume you did that either because you too want the lifestyle or because you got a better job--very probably one that pays more money, because the higher costs have, indeed, resulted in higher wages which partially amerliorate the problem.

I've driven through Texas a number of times. I've seen some attractive areas (mostly the hill country and the immediate coast), but I can honestly say I saw nothing there that made me want to live there and certainly not just to save the amount of money I would save by doing so. Having experienced Houston, Dallas, San Antonio and El Paso traffic, I can also say that if I did live there, I would want my state government to spend more than it is doing on meeting the needs of its people--especially for things like transit alternatives. While California has admittedly not done all it should, both of its major metropolitan areas have effective rail transit systems that are being enlarged and improved as rapidly as the areas and the state can afford.

[scribeman]

Its a hot commodity
It isn't that, not really.
The problem with California is that, in truth, there have been so many painfully stupid politicians making tax legislation that favors both elitist causes (how dare you try to build an apartment building next to my 50,000 acre mansion) and die-hard liberal causes (nothing can possibly go wrong in the land of the care-free, where gumdrops and rainbows grow on trees and we can completely ignore the laws of economics) that taxes have skyrocketed and debt has followed alongside. It's just idiotic economic policies made by ignorant people.
1 Maine 13.00%
""Maine: If you can dream it, we can tax it".

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Great post BTinSF. i learned a lot right there. by the way, can you enlighten me on Homestead?

[fflint]

OK so I just moved to California, and after collecting a few paycheck at my current job and seeing the high state tax rate compared to my previous home Texas. And seeing how high the apartment rental rates are, my question is how and when did California's state Economy get all screwed up? How and when did property and rental rates go sky high?
Why can't California get rid of the state tax like Washington state or Texas?

Please no flames ? I am new to California and I am just wondering how our state got so expensive?
How interesting--you write that you just moved to California, and yet you are still physically posting messages from a thousand miles away in Texas!

TheFuture3000: you rock.

[BTinSF]

Great post BTinSF. i learned a lot right there. by the way, can you enlighten me on Homestead?

You mean the homestead exemption on property taxes? If so, that's just an amount that you get to knock off the assessed value of owner-occupied housing before the tax rate is applied. In some states it is large enough to really matter. In CA, it's only $7000 so your $600,000 home is taxed as if it were a $593,000 home.

[innov8]

How interesting--you write that you just moved to California, and yet you are still physically posting messages from a thousand miles away in Texas!

TheFuture3000: you rock.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

This is that "what's it like" guy who asks all these ridiculous questions
about stuff. BTW, how's the weather in Texas?

[fflint]

I'll bet the weather in Texas right now totally rocks.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I'll bet the weather in Texas right now totally rocks.

Better than the smog-infested air we breathe in here. All those earthquakes don't help, either.

[fflint]

Buckeye, have I ever told you that you rawk?

[Buckeye Native 001]

Oh fflinty, you totally r0x0r!

[yakumoto]

Yes, its the liberal's fault that 'our economy is so messed up.'

It makes me so angry that California has the largest 'messed up' economy in the United States and our 'messed up' economy is whats funding the other half of our country...

...not to try and start a flame war or anything.

(_)_)=====D

[EastBayHardCore]

How interesting--you write that you just moved to California, and yet you are still physically posting messages from a thousand miles away in Texas!

TheFuture3000: you rock.

He's got the same problem that SF_Boy had lol.

[fflint]

SFBoy rocks!

[yakumoto]

SFBoy rocks!

Actually, I moved to Houston a few months ago, and the taxes are just as high here as they were in California!

[TheFuture3000]

How interesting--you write that you just moved to California, and yet you are still physically posting messages from a thousand miles away in Texas!

TheFuture3000: you rock.
Nice try! No man I have already move to Cali, I am in Texas currently til Sunday Visiting and tiding up loose ends, also its my sisters Bday !

[Buckeye Native 001]

I wished I lived in Texas. :(

[Sacdelicious]

Great post BTinSF. For an update, California's ratio for tax money sent to the federal government compared to the amount we get back in federal assistance has dropped from the 83% (the figure you listed for 2004).

It now stands at 79 cent the state gets back per each dollar sent to the federal government.

Just a small FYI.

[fflint]

Nice try! No man I have already move to Cali, I am in Texas currently til Sunday Visiting and tiding up loose ends, also its my sisters Bday !
Sisters' birthdays totally rock. I look forward to your physically returning to the state you just moved to and rocking the Califorum really, really hard. You roXXorz!

[foxmtbr]

http://www.stillpointpress.com/Photographs/Display/The%20Perfect%20Pebble.jpg

[Buckeye Native 001]

Those rocks are hawt.

[foxmtbr]

They rock.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Indeed. They rawk.

[bjornson]

OMG, this thread RAWKS like those ROCKS, man!

[edluva]

http://www.fog-rocks.com/top_pic_menu.gif

[Buckeye Native 001]

Hey, you know what else rocks?

Sand.

Its like millions and millions of super tiny rocks!

[solongfullerton]

http://www.drugs.indiana.edu/graphics/photographs/govt/crack-pipe.gif

YEAHHHHH! Rocks!!!!!!!

[bjornson]

http://static.flickr.com/101/311501738_05218046b1.jpg?v=0

YEAH SAND!

[aufbau]

I-raq as well.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n53/erikhmb/iraq_cia_2003.jpg

but not as hard as this thread.

[edluva]

http://asware.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4398&g2_serialNumber=2&g2_fileName=rocks.jpg

[sf_eddo]

don't be fooled by the ROCKS that she got, she's still she's still jenny from the block.

http://jennifer.webz.cz/jlo-pics/jlo-cover-big.jpg

[fflint]

http://reluctant-messenger.com/images/diamond.gif

[J Church]

http://www.mouseplanet.com/more/rocky_bullwinkle-jay_ward.jpg

[foxmtbr]

http://www.alcatraz.cc/images/500/Alcatraz_picture.jpg
http://www.poster.net/rock-the/rock-the-nicolas-cage-sean-connery-ed-harris-4001336.jpg

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/03/carey/the%20rock.jpg

[Buckeye Native 001]

You rock, California!

[James Bond Agent 007]

A California rock!

http://www.carto.net/neumann/travelling/usa_california_2003_08/02_yosemite_sequoia_np_2003_08_11_to_17/017_el_capitan.jpg

[friedpez]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f24/friedpez/europe022.jpg
Oh, the rocking rocks of rocky Rockifornia

[fflint]

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:Hx55TYZf3QE-DM:http://www.roc.com/content/images/roc.emea_tld/roc.emea_tld/logo.gif

[latennisguy]

rock the rock!!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b43/samceb/rocktherock.jpg

[edluva]

http://www.phoenixgraphix.com/gm/8587iz.jpg

[plinko]

Nobody sits like this rock sits. You rock, rock. The rock just sits and is.
You show us how to just sit here and that's what we need.

http://ase.tufts.edu/cosmos/pictures/Explore_figs_5/fig5_18.jpg

[cookiejarvis]

edit double post

[cookiejarvis]

nevermind the rocks. what about...

http://www.laist.com/attachments/LA_jason/humps01.jpg

btw, nice to see fflint occasionally drunk posts like the rest of us.

[edluva]

I know spoken word when I see it, but that first line is a haiku, plinko.

[foxmtbr]

...drunk posts like the rest of us.

This (thread) is how I think normally.
:P

[Buckeye Native 001]

http://www.phoenixgraphix.com/gm/8587iz.jpg

I need a mullet, STAT!

[bjornson]

http://static.flickr.com/17/19571294_75e57783d9.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/97/233983600_10803d66a6.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/14/17059769_ccdbe75ea3.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/63/224540508_d168d07335.jpg?v=0

http://static.flickr.com/78/224540519_d5ab331cfe.jpg?v=0

We've got plenty for you in the INLAND EMPIRE!

[Buckeye Native 001]

The Inland Empire RAWKS!

[econgrad]

Just checked out this thread, you guys are cracking me up!
:haha: :cheers: :haha:

[Buckeye Native 001]

This thread is like a bastardized version of the Midwest Coffee Talk

[fflint]

This thread is like a bastardized version of the Midwest Coffee Talk
You mean with all the mullet photos and IROC Zs?

[Buckeye Native 001]

In our own sweet way, yes.

Then again, you quoted me on a post I wrote when I was sober. Lies, all lies I tell you!