[65MAX]

‘Rotten’ pilings slow Centennial Mills
POSTED: Thursday, December 17, 2009 at 12:23 PM PT
BY: Eli Segall (DJC)

.......... An open forum was held Dec. 2 to review and discuss project plans, and another, similar forum is scheduled for Jan. 19, at the Bridgeport Brewery. .........


So is this article wrong?

[mmeade]

Apparently one of us is. Looking at the website, the date listed is 2009. It could be a typo, or it could be that they haven't updated in a year. I know that the forum I went to last year sounded exactly like the one described on the website...

January 19, 2009, 5:30 – 7:30 pm at Bridgeport Brewery

Please join us along with the Centennial Mills development team, LAB Holding LLC and Meyer, Scherer & Rockcastle, and The Fields Park designers, led by The Office of Cheryl Barton, for a public open house and presentation to review the following significant project updates: schematic design of the Centennial Mills Redevelopment; updates on The Fields design; and design concepts for the pedestrian bridge linking the two projects.

[65MAX]

The DJC often has wrong or outdated information, so I'm guessing the reporter probably misread the Centennial Mills website.

[Eco_jt]

I'm on the Neighborhood Association and their is another forum on the 19th, 2010 at 5:30, info posted to the PDNA http://www.pearldistrict.org/news.asp website and Neighborhood notes http://www.neighborhoodnotes.com/events/2010/01/centennial_mills_and_fields_park_open_house

[tworivers]

Oh, weird. I didn't even notice the year 2009 on the website. I originally saw a notice about the upcoming event in the Oregonian (where it was listed as being on Wednesday, January 19th, 2010) and then checked in a little too briefly with the website. It would be nice if they'd keep it updated, huh?

Bikeportland had a story (http://bikeportland.org/2010/01/12/greenway-trail-in-the-mix-of-centennial-mills-redevelopment/) about the Mills today.

Zilfondel, I look forward to hearing about the presentation!

[zilfondel]

I accidentally went last night. Nobody was there! :P

[tworivers]

Any reports?

Also, the water taxi/kayak dock idea seems important to the concept. Why would it be so difficult at C Mills when a dock was built just a few years ago for the kayakers at Water Ave?

Having a waterfront streetcar line from the existing line down Naito to the condos north of the Fremont bridge would also help a project like this be somewhat Pike Place-ish... unlikely, though, I guess.


Centennial Mills developer calls project the ‘anti-mall’
POSTED: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 at 12:24 PM PT
BY: Nathalie Weinstein (DJC -- story here (http://djcoregon.com/news/2010/01/20/centennial-mills-developer-calls-project-the-anti-mall-redv/))

LAB Holding founder Shaheen Sadeghi made at least one thing clear Wednesday night at an open house for the long-planned Centennial Mills project: his plan for a mixed-use center at the site of the former flour mill is not a mall.

“This project is the anti-mall,” Sadeghi said. “There will be no national tenants. The ambience will not be upscale like a mall. This project is about incorporating the existing urban fabric of Portland.”

Rather than extend Pearl District shopping, Sadeghi envisions reusing the mill to create a lively public arena with an emphasis on Portland’s foodie culture. The idea would be for Centennial Mills to provide a much needed connection to Portland’s riverfront. Such a vision has been a long time coming, and could face a bumpy road ahead.

“We will soon be entering a complex regulatory process,” said Ryan Aeh, project director with LAB Holding. “Permitting for working in the water at the site is one of the biggest unknowns and challenges facing the project. The big goal is to connect everyone with the river.”

The good news, according to Sadeghi, is that the project will require little to no new design. LAB Holding has been working with architecture firm Meyer, Scherer & Rockcastle to plan how to reuse many of the remaining buildings. A prominent design feature will be the opening of a former grain elevator to allow the public to cross through it to a boardwalk made from old wood collected at the site. The grain elevator will also house locally owned shops and restaurants.

“I see this project becoming an iconic location like Pike’s Place in Seattle,” Sadeghi said.

Sadeghi would like to see Centennial Mills incorporate a boat launch for kayakers and water taxis. But regulatory concerns at city, state and federal levels make such plans challenging, according to Steven Shain, development manager for the Portland Development Commission.

“We’re confident we have a plan to work our way through regulatory concerns to realize this vision,” Shain said. “Typically, developing along any waterfront requires sensitivity to regulatory concerns. Some say the best thing is for people to stay away from the river, but another camp says we should embrace it.”

LAB Holding plans to finish schematic design and start discussing a disposition and development agreement with the PDC by this spring. Construction could start next year.

[zilfondel]

I tried going, but they wouldnt let us in. They turned quite a few people away, as the tiny room they rented at Bridgeport completely filled up. I was pretty pissed.

[2oh1]

“I see this project becoming an iconic location like Pike’s Place in Seattle”

They're either crazy, stupid or snake oil salesmen. I love the concept of what they're trying to do here, but those unrealistic expectations do no one any good. Pike Place is in the center of downtown Seattle. Centennial Mills is in a deserted part of our city between the Broadway and Freemont bridges.

http://maps.google.com/maps?geocode=CZpIQEPGBHx8FYWFtgIdIPqv-CktRTZDGgqVVDGj6mValMr21A&q=centenial+mills&f=l&hl=en&sll=45.531711,-122.67879&sspn=0.010552,0.012875&ie=UTF8&radius=0.31&filter=0&rq=1&ev=zi&hq=centenial+mills&hnear=&ll=45.533965,-122.680163&spn=0.004599,0.012875&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.533746,-122.681294&panoid=lm1_uKedmbgo0GF7RKFxOQ&cbp=11,217.08,,0,5.3

How long do we think it'll be before the north end of the Pearl connects with this area in a meaningful way? I'm not just talking about a park connecting the two. I'm talking about the north end of the Pearl becoming an actual neighborhood. A decade? Without that, I don't think a market at Centennial Mills has a chance. In the meantime, who would go to a market at Centennial Mills and how would they get there?

If Centennial Mills was located somewhere near the Rose Quarter along the MAX line, I'd say it could really be a success. But on its own, with nothing around it except for maybe some future condo projects (Edge anyone?)... I don't see this project happening and I fear it's wasted effort.

[urbanlife]

“I see this project becoming an iconic location like Pike’s Place in Seattle”

They're either crazy, stupid or snake oil salesmen. I love the concept of what they're trying to do here, but those unrealistic expectations do no one any good. Pike Place is in the center of downtown Seattle. Centennial Mills is in a deserted part of our city between the Broadway and Freemont bridges.

http://maps.google.com/maps?geocode=CZpIQEPGBHx8FYWFtgIdIPqv-CktRTZDGgqVVDGj6mValMr21A&q=centenial+mills&f=l&hl=en&sll=45.531711,-122.67879&sspn=0.010552,0.012875&ie=UTF8&radius=0.31&filter=0&rq=1&ev=zi&hq=centenial+mills&hnear=&ll=45.533965,-122.680163&spn=0.004599,0.012875&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.533746,-122.681294&panoid=lm1_uKedmbgo0GF7RKFxOQ&cbp=11,217.08,,0,5.3

How long do we think it'll be before the north end of the Pearl connects with this area in a meaningful way? I'm not just talking about a park connecting the two. I'm talking about the north end of the Pearl becoming an actual neighborhood. A decade? Without that, I don't think a market at Centennial Mills has a chance. In the meantime, who would go to a market at Centennial Mills and how would they get there?

If Centennial Mills was located somewhere near the Rose Quarter along the MAX line, I'd say it could really be a success. But on its own, with nothing around it except for maybe some future condo projects (Edge anyone?)... I don't see this project happening and I fear it's wasted effort.

It is only three blocks or so from the Streetcar. The land is fairly flat in that area of town, so it would be very easy to bike to and from. A couple large Pearl developments in between the streetcar stop and the Mill, it could help connect everything together.

I will say, this is in no way like Pike Place Market for the reason you stated...I would see this becoming more like Granville Island Public Market. That market sits on a island with limited connection to it, yet is still able to be a very successful market...also, that style of market would be very fitting for Portland.

[tworivers]

Oh... yeah, I kind of forgot about the streetcar line on the other side of the park. Basically, I am also skeptical that this plan will consistently draw enough people, particularly on bike or in the winter, to be successful. And you guys are right about the Pike's Place comparison. We tore down our waterfront public market building (way bigger than Seattle's) back in the 50's... big mistake.

[2oh1]

It is only three blocks or so from the Streetcar. The land is fairly flat in that area of town, so it would be very easy to bike to and from.

Here's the nearest streetcar stop. Walk it in the googlemap and you'll see just how unrealistic it is to think that tourists and the sorts of people a market like this would need will walk it from there.

Three blocks takes you to 9th and Northrup, or 12th and Quimby. The walk is more like five. I know, that sounds like nitpicking, but it's not. And then factor in the train and Naito - or are they going to build a pedestrian bridge? I just don't think that's realistic.

Nearest Streetcar stop:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1030+SW+Jefferson+St.+Portland+OR+97201&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.301626,68.642578&ie=UTF8&t=h&hq=&hnear=1030+SW+Jefferson+St,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97205&ll=45.530824,-122.681193&spn=0.010552,0.013304&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.530821,-122.681385&panoid=QnP1uQrLMMS8ee16O_7Pdw&cbp=12,153.71,,0,17.34

Centennial Mills:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=1030+SW+Jefferson+St.+Portland+OR+97201&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=47.301626,68.642578&ie=UTF8&t=h&hq=&hnear=1030+SW+Jefferson+St,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97205&ll=45.53362,-122.681086&spn=0.004599,0.013304&z=16&layer=c&cbll=45.533627,-122.681092&panoid=AtXpjmmu0WMGMHb5A5bN8Q&cbp=11,220.63,,0,-7.48


A couple large Pearl developments in between the streetcar stop and the Mill, it could help connect everything together.

Like I said, what's an honest realistic timeline for a completion of that? 2020? Maybe? How are those Edge condos selling? In the meantime, wouldn't all of that construction serve as harm rather than help?

I would see this becoming more like Granville Island Public Market. That market sits on a island with limited connection to it, yet is still able to be a very successful market...also, that style of market would be very fitting for Portland.

You could be right about that. I haven't been to that market. Where do people park? Does the Centennial Mills project include enough parking to support the market? If people aren't parking at Granville Island, then how do they get there... and, again, is that approach realistic for Centennial Mills?

I'm a million percent in favor of a market like this, and I'm equally in favor of the redevelopment of Centennial Mills. I'm just not at all convinced the two go together.

[urbanlife]

5 Portland blocks is still a short walk...that is what, maybe a 7 minute walk...maybe.

The intention with this is to make it into a destination location. It is a good location for something like this, there is land right around the Mill that could by used for parking for the building. And again, 5 blocks isnt that far in Portland...that is like saying people dont walk from downtown to the Pearl District.

[65MAX]

5 blocks is a 5 minute walk at 3 mph. (20 block = 1 mile)

Granville Island is far more isolated than Centennial Mills, virtually impossible to walk to and little if any public transit. There is a ferry across False Creek, but otherwise you have to drive.

[NJD]

Think about how this property will interact with the future urban layout; this project may become a catalyst to put the Pearl District Plan back in motion, or an altogether different development agenda may ensue from the Mills development in our current economic climate...

http://www.boora.com/files/39981239064886North-Pearl-District-Master-Plan--Headline.jpg
image from BOORA

[2oh1]

5 Portland blocks is still a short walk...that is what, maybe a 7 minute walk...maybe.

I'm not saying it's a far walk at all. I'm saying this project keeps getting compared to successful tourist destinations, and I don't believe that is a realistic expectation.

Centennial Mills has no direct tourist friendly transit options. View that master plan image and you'll see it has no parking either. Add to that the fact that the north end of the Pearl is what, a decade from completion, assuming the housing market kicks in again with enough gusto to bring about new construction? In the meantime, it's foolish to even think tourists are going to walk through five blocks of a construction zone and deal with Amtrack trains and Naito too. It's just silly.

The key to tourism and retail is location location location. Without a completed north end of the Pearl, I don't believe Centennial Mills has any of the three. If the housing market were still in full boom and the north end of the Pearl had filled in the way the area around 11th & Couch did, I'd feel differently.

Like I said, I love this project. I just think the location will be a killer.

[urbanlife]

I'm not saying it's a far walk at all. I'm saying this project keeps getting compared to successful tourist destinations, and I don't believe that is a realistic expectation.

Centennial Mills has no direct tourist friendly transit options. View that master plan image and you'll see it has no parking either. Add to that the fact that the north end of the Pearl is what, a decade from completion, assuming the housing market kicks in again with enough gusto to bring about new construction? In the meantime, it's foolish to even think tourists are going to walk through five blocks of a construction zone and deal with Amtrack trains and Naito too. It's just silly.

The key to tourism and retail is location location location. Without a completed north end of the Pearl, I don't believe Centennial Mills has any of the three. If the housing market were still in full boom and the north end of the Pearl had filled in the way the area around 11th & Couch did, I'd feel differently.

Like I said, I love this project. I just think the location will be a killer.

Therefore that is the reason to comparing it to Granville Island in Vancouver. It is a successful market that has the exact same, if not harder obstacles that it had to overcome to be a success. Would you rather see this idea being compared to failed ideas? The intention is to look at successful ideas and see what it is that makes them successful.

I personal feel you are thinking too small about Portland when it comes in terms of location. If this mill sat on the eastside industrial area, the complications would be just as hard even though its location might seem like a better spot at first.

Location is always important, but people seem to forget that location is what you make of it...and a project like this can be successful in this location if it is done correctly. There are currently plenty of people that show up to the saturday farmers market at PSU, that come from all over and mostly park along the streets...sure there are differences with this, but some of the transit stops are easily a walk, while the Mill would be more in the middle of those coming from the NW and downtown.

Of course there is challenges with making this work, but it is not far fetched to think that it is possible of being a success.

[bvpcvm]

I think 2oh1 is correct. I don't know Granville Market well, except that, unlike Centennial Mills, it's on the way from somewhere to somewhere else. OK, you have to detour a bit to get to it, but it's between residential areas and downtown. Centennial Mills is on the way to... what? Unless it's a strong enough development to attract visitors in its own right (which I think is unlikely), there will be no excuse to go there. Remember the story last year about Safeway in the Pearl doing so much more poorly than Whole Foods? Whole Foods is, for most Pearl residents, on the way to Powell's and downtown *and* it's still new enough to the Portland market that it's interesting (of course, its idiotic CEO has reduced its attractiveness for a lot of people). Safeway, on the other hand, is 1) boring and 2) on the way to nowhere. Multiple "attractors" reduce the "cost" of going to any one of them, because there's more than one thing to do if, for example, you change your mind or whatever. For Centennial Mills, the "cost" is pretty high unless there's something you're certain you want to do. Granville Market, even if it's a detour, is still pretty close to downtown and Broadway; there are plenty of other things to do nearby. So I don't have a lot of hope for Centennial Mills.

[2oh1]

D'oh!!! I kept referring to The Encore, which sits vacant at the north end of the Pearl, as The Edge! Sorry! I meant to say the Encore! Encore! Encore!

[urbanlife]

I think 2oh1 is correct. I don't know Granville Market well, except that, unlike Centennial Mills, it's on the way from somewhere to somewhere else. OK, you have to detour a bit to get to it, but it's between residential areas and downtown. Centennial Mills is on the way to... what? Unless it's a strong enough development to attract visitors in its own right (which I think is unlikely), there will be no excuse to go there. Remember the story last year about Safeway in the Pearl doing so much more poorly than Whole Foods? Whole Foods is, for most Pearl residents, on the way to Powell's and downtown *and* it's still new enough to the Portland market that it's interesting (of course, its idiotic CEO has reduced its attractiveness for a lot of people). Safeway, on the other hand, is 1) boring and 2) on the way to nowhere. Multiple "attractors" reduce the "cost" of going to any one of them, because there's more than one thing to do if, for example, you change your mind or whatever. For Centennial Mills, the "cost" is pretty high unless there's something you're certain you want to do. Granville Market, even if it's a detour, is still pretty close to downtown and Broadway; there are plenty of other things to do nearby. So I don't have a lot of hope for Centennial Mills.

What city are you talking about? Clearly it cant be Portland because you are referring to it as if it is some sprawling metropolis and these locations are in the middle of nowhere.

Safeway, on the streetcar line and in the middle of the NW district and the Pearl. Getting to Granville is a much bigger detour to and doesnt have a streetcar within a Portland 5 block walk.

I know you are trying to make a point with this, but you are pretending like Portland is this vast city that takes hours to get around downtown.

[bvpcvm]

Look, the market isn't you and me, it's 40 year-olds who have to be talked out of their SUVs. (Seriously, I've been stopped for directions downtown by some suburbanite oldsters, told them whatever they're looking for is "just maybe 5 blocks" and heard them comment to each other that they'd "better go find the car, we can't walk that far". For people like that, who, I would bet, make up a huge portion of the market, this area IS vast.

Regarding Safeway, do you think being on the streetcar really helps that much? I was thinking more of people on foot - if you live, say, on Glisan, and you can choose between the two, do you go to the one that is on teh way back from lots of interesting stuff (Powell's, all of downtown)? Or the one that has Chipotle next door? For me, at least, the streetcar is useful for going from, say NW to downtown or PSU. NW->Pearl, it's probably faster to just walk, rather than wait for it, and at that point its location on the streetcar doesn't mean so much. But maybe that's just me.

[bvpcvm]

article from neighborhoodnotes.com about the meeting (http://www.neighborhoodnotes.com/news/2010/01/capacity_crowd_attends_fields_neighborhood_park_and_centennial_mills_open_house)

[urbanlife]

Look, the market isn't you and me, it's 40 year-olds who have to be talked out of their SUVs. (Seriously, I've been stopped for directions downtown by some suburbanite oldsters, told them whatever they're looking for is "just maybe 5 blocks" and heard them comment to each other that they'd "better go find the car, we can't walk that far". For people like that, who, I would bet, make up a huge portion of the market, this area IS vast.

Regarding Safeway, do you think being on the streetcar really helps that much? I was thinking more of people on foot - if you live, say, on Glisan, and you can choose between the two, do you go to the one that is on teh way back from lots of interesting stuff (Powell's, all of downtown)? Or the one that has Chipotle next door? For me, at least, the streetcar is useful for going from, say NW to downtown or PSU. NW->Pearl, it's probably faster to just walk, rather than wait for it, and at that point its location on the streetcar doesn't mean so much. But maybe that's just me.

Both of these statements are purely subjective...I am pretty sure the type of people that they are looking to go to this are the same people that go to the Saturday Market and the Farmers Market, which both get a large collection of different types of people. The "suburban SUV crowd" isnt the only type of people that live in this city.

So far it sounds like your reasoning for this project is that it shouldnt be built because it is in the middle of nowhere and leads to no where, and there is no where for the suburbanites to park their SUVs.


As for grocery stores, there is the Safeway, Whole Foods, Fred Meyers, and a number of co-ops...so where does it say that is wrong to not have options when it comes to grocery stores? Should the entire northwest only have one?

[bvpcvm]

Both of these statements are purely subjective...I am pretty sure the type of people that they are looking to go to this are the same people that go to the Saturday Market and the Farmers Market, which both get a large collection of different types of people. The "suburban SUV crowd" isnt the only type of people that live in this city.

So far it sounds like your reasoning for this project is that it shouldnt be built because it is in the middle of nowhere and leads to no where, and there is no where for the suburbanites to park their SUVs.


As for grocery stores, there is the Safeway, Whole Foods, Fred Meyers, and a number of co-ops...so where does it say that is wrong to not have options when it comes to grocery stores? Should the entire northwest only have one?

You're taking what I'm saying way too literally. First of all, no, I never suggested that fewer options == better, my point was simply that you can explain Safeway's lack of success by the fact that it's at the wrong end of the Pearl.

I also never suggested that Centennial Mills shouldn't be built at all, just that to me it looks like it faces some challenges, among which is the fact that it too is at the wrong end of the Pearl and will have to be pretty strong on its own, since there's nothing around it to give people a secondary excuse to go that way.

Finally, look, regarding SUV's and frightened suburbanites, Portland is great, full of hipster bike riders etc, etc, but past 82nd that all comes to a halt. Beyond, it's a vast, desolate suburbia no different from anywhere else. Luckily, living close to downtown, I can ignore that, for the most part; the developers of Centennial Mills, though, probably can't. Saturday Market and the farmers' market (you mean the one at PSU, right?) are directly served by MAX and Streetcar; Centennial Mills is near the Streetcar, but distant enough that - my opinion - there will be challenges.

[urbanlife]

You're taking what I'm saying way too literally. First of all, no, I never suggested that fewer options == better, my point was simply that you can explain Safeway's lack of success by the fact that it's at the wrong end of the Pearl.

I also never suggested that Centennial Mills shouldn't be built at all, just that to me it looks like it faces some challenges, among which is the fact that it too is at the wrong end of the Pearl and will have to be pretty strong on its own, since there's nothing around it to give people a secondary excuse to go that way.

Finally, look, regarding SUV's and frightened suburbanites, Portland is great, full of hipster bike riders etc, etc, but past 82nd that all comes to a halt. Beyond, it's a vast, desolate suburbia no different from anywhere else. Luckily, living close to downtown, I can ignore that, for the most part; the developers of Centennial Mills, though, probably can't. Saturday Market and the farmers' market (you mean the one at PSU, right?) are directly served by MAX and Streetcar; Centennial Mills is near the Streetcar, but distant enough that - my opinion - there will be challenges.

Safeway's issue seems to have more to do with the fact that it sits in an area that was overbuilt and has yet to fill up...I think it is hard to believe that so many units around that Safeway would choose to walk all the way down to Whole Foods to pay more for their groceries. Those who do are usually not that bright or make enough money to where that isnt an issue. Safeway will be fine in that location giving it time.


Again, most suburban people come to Saturday Market and the Farmers Market (the one by PSU) by car...I know this because I live and work by both of these markets and (purely subjective) see the number of people that drive in to these things by the lack of available street parking each area. So it isnt far fetched to say these same people that drive in to go to these things would drive to the Centennial Mills.

Also, as I said before, there is alot of different types of people that go to these things and developers do not need to build to just one type (the suburbia people), if that were the case, then you would have to be in support of more parking garages and parking lots downtown so that suburban people have places to park, but the city has proven it functions better catering to a more urban lifestyle. The Centennial Mills is still apart of greater downtown, therefore it does not need to be built with a suburban mindset in order to attract people to it. Having the focus of the building to be local products is what would make this a unique thing to go to...also, if you are suggesting that this needs to be attractive to the suburban market, why not put an Applebee's or a Chevy's in it, that would obviously attract people from the suburbs.

What has been bothering me about your comments is that you sound as if this Mill is way out on 82nd, there for it should cater to that crowd....but in actuality it is still in the boundaries of downtown, in a city that actually has a very small downtown that shouldnt be wasted on suburban developments.

[tworivers]

full of hipster bike riders

Watch it buddy. ;)

[dkealoha]

How is Safeway a failure? I go to the Safeway in the Pearl multiple times a week and it's always busy. In fact, I even go out of my way to go to the Pearl Safeway rather than the downtown one sometimes! I mean, count the number of (mostly full) buildings within 4 blocks of there. Edge Lofts, Crane Lofts, Avenue Lofts, Wyatt, Asa, Bridgeport, Streetcar, Sitka, Pinnacle, Lexis, Lovejoy Station, Metropolitan, Burlington, Park Place, Kearney Plaza, Riverstone... need I go on? I don't think Safeway is in any way in "the wrong side" of the Pearl. In fact, I'd even say there are MORE residential units closer to Safeway than Whole Foods. Also, personally, I try to avoid the tourist trap that is Powells and there's no way I'd chose to go to Whole Foods because of its proximity to it. Plus, if we're talking about frightened suburban driving suburbanites, the Brewery Blocks are the biggest cluster to drive/walk around out of anywhere in the Pearl. It's much easier to park at Safeway...

But, I digress... What are we talking about? Centennial Mills? :-)

[2oh1]

How is Safeway a failure?

From what I've been told, the store isn't doing well. It's far underperforming based on the original expectations. Again, that's just what I've been told, but it's not surprising at all if you think about where the store is and what's around it. More people probably live closer to Whole Foods than the new Safeway, which explains why Whole Foods is always packed and the new Safeway isn't.

Back in 2004, there was so much talk about the Pearl expanding north until it hit the river and the new Safeway would end up in the middle of it all. Clearly, that didn't happen and we all know why. Go to the Sitka and look north. Yikes. Of course, this is probably just a temporary situation. I'm sure the Pearl will eventually fill in, fill up and roll north. Until then, we have the unsold Encore as an overbuilding boogeyman. How's the Waterfront Pearl selling? And what about all of the unbuilt projects?

The north end of the Pearl will eventually happen. Opportunities there are huge and Portland's population is going to continue to rise in a big way. The north end of the Pearl will happen, but it won't happen soon. I fear that if a market is built at Centennial Mills before the north end of the Pearl is ready for it, the market will be a failure, and that's bad for anyone who really wants to see that part of town thrive.

I'm not against a new market at all. I'm just against its failure due to poor planning. A new market at Centennial Mills before the rest of that area is ready? To me, that's poor planning.

Also, the last thing I want to see over there is a frigging sea of blacktop parking lots for all of the tourists and everyone else it'll require for this market to be a success.

[dkealoha]

...it's not surprising at all if you think about where the store is and what's around it. More people probably live closer to Whole Foods than the new Safeway, which explains why Whole Foods is always packed and the new Safeway isn't.

Not to sound like a broken record but...
...count the number of (mostly full) buildings within 4 blocks of there. Edge Lofts, Crane Lofts, Avenue Lofts, Wyatt, Asa, Bridgeport, Streetcar, Sitka, Pinnacle, Lexis, Lovejoy Station, Metropolitan, Burlington, Park Place, Kearney Plaza, Riverstone... need I go on? I don't think Safeway is in any way in "the wrong side" of the Pearl. In fact, I'd even say there are MORE residential units closer to Safeway than Whole Foods.

[bvpcvm]

From what I've been told, the store isn't doing well.

There were several articles about a year ago which discusses how badly Safeway was doing, one in the NW Examiner, and at least one more in some other paper.

[bvpcvm]

So are you guys arguing that the amenities around Safeway and Whole Foods don't play any role in determining how attractive each is? I can't believe that. Do I have to mention the "first rule of real estate"? I doubt it. Again, if Centennial Mills can stand on its own, great, I'm all for it, in fact, I really hope it does, because it looks like it could be a really cool project - but I have my doubts, and location has a lot to do with it. As 2oh1 says, in ten years it won't be as much of an issue, but it has to survive until then.

[urbanlife]

So are you guys arguing that the amenities around Safeway and Whole Foods don't play any role in determining how attractive each is? I can't believe that. Do I have to mention the "first rule of real estate"? I doubt it. Again, if Centennial Mills can stand on its own, great, I'm all for it, in fact, I really hope it does, because it looks like it could be a really cool project - but I have my doubts, and location has a lot to do with it. As 2oh1 says, in ten years it won't be as much of an issue, but it has to survive until then.

Well look at it this way, the Centennial Mills wont even begin construction till about early 2012, at the earliest. Then we are probably looking at about a two year construction timeline, so if everything goes on time, this building wont be up and running until early 2015, or at least 5 years from now.

Also, one should know about real estate is that nothing happens overnight. So if it takes ten years for North of Lovejoy to really start building up, it will be in about 5 years that we begin to see the changes happen, therefore would put this project right in the middle of these changes.

I am sure there are a number of people here who remember the downtown stopping at Burnside and anything north of there was a wasteland. Then that line of development was pushed up to Glisan, then Lovejoy. It makes no sense to think that development isnt going to continue northward and that this project cant play a part in that. You guys have to keep in mind that the Pearl District is not even a square mile big...that district and downtown Portland is tiny, it just happens to be that this city uses all of it, there for it feels like it is much bigger than what it is.



Also, does anyone have proof of these articles? I cannot find anything that mentions the new Safeway is a failure...other than tough economy times articles which is a given for anyone in this country. And is there anything that can be found that is addressing this more recently because that is like saying 4 years ago the economy was great, therefore it must be great now.

[philopdx]

If people are worried about Naito severing the connection between the Pearl and Centennial Mills, isn't that what this pedestrian bridge is for?

From Neigborhoodnotes.com

http://www.neighborhoodnotes.com/uploads/images/the-fields-park.jpg

You could park close to the park, walk across the bridge, which would be an attraction in itself, and have your fun at the Mills, cavorting with granola-fueled Vegans.

[2oh1]

I thought that pedestrian bridge was only a possibility. I didn't realize it was a done deal. In fact, I thought the whole Fields park was still more or less up in the air. I'm really looking forward to it when it's done. I wonder what the timeline is.

[Okstate]

Taken from neighborhoodnotes-


Barton finished her discussion by laying out a timeline for the completion of the project. She hopes to have full schematics, the initial design and the construction design done by early next year. The project will be bid in early 2011, with construction expected to begin in March. At this time the park has a $3.1 million dollar construction budget. Construction will begin immediately following the bid with an expected completion date of September/October 2011.



I would expect it to be completed about 2 years from right now.

[2oh1]

Does that budget and timeline include the pedestrian bridge?

[urbanlife]

Does that budget and timeline include the pedestrian bridge?

I would guess that would be the last thing to be budgeted and constructed seeing that it would be the piece that would connect to the redeveloped Centennial Mills.

[bvpcvm]

Not to go back to arguing about this - well, OK, I am - but according to this article (http://www.oregonlive.com/dining/index.ssf/2010/01/portland_farmers_market_expand.html), "In November, Portland Farmers Market pulled the plug on its Ecotrust Market in the Pearl District, noting that traffic and sales did not match numbers at other locations". If people can't be bothered to go to the farmer's market in the Pearl - which is next to Jamison Square, ffs, what's going to make them walk another five blocks from the nearest Streetcar stop to CM?

[Okstate]

^ I see the relation but it depends how much of a destination Centennial Mills can/will be. The Pearl Farmers market was pathetic in size & atmosphere & it was concealed behind a wall of stone.

[urbanlife]

Not to go back to arguing about this - well, OK, I am - but according to this article (http://www.oregonlive.com/dining/index.ssf/2010/01/portland_farmers_market_expand.html), "In November, Portland Farmers Market pulled the plug on its Ecotrust Market in the Pearl District, noting that traffic and sales did not match numbers at other locations". If people can't be bothered to go to the farmer's market in the Pearl - which is next to Jamison Square, ffs, what's going to make them walk another five blocks from the nearest Streetcar stop to CM?

Also to add to this, I wouldnt read too much into the article because it mentions that this one's sales were not as high as others, which it is hard for such a small lot to compare to the one on PSU which is several blocks big and apparently growing. And one more thing about the Pearl Farmers Market...I didnt even know they had one there or even what day it was. I thought it was just the wednesday one and the saturday one that they had....that might of been a problem as well.

[Tykendo]

Less than enthused about the winning lab proposal. Bland to say the least, but what would make this area spectacular would be a Major league Stadium. Coors field in Denver turned a blighted area into a place to be, not just during the season. I don't see how the Lab proposal will bring anything to the area other than a hangout for people who don't use deodorant. Make the area a destination, not just a periodical fruit market, and place to hear "Kumbaya". Lab's proposal is a snoozer.

[Tykendo]

Understand that i know Portland would need to have a team first. But with design/build you could have it start as a Minor League park for the Beavers and grow once a Major League franchise arrives.

[MR. Cosmopolitan]

5 Portland blocks is still a short walk...that is what, maybe a 7 minute walk...maybe.

Don't forget bus line 16, it's quite frequent, passes through downtown and it's station is just one block away from the Mills, in Naito.

[urbanlife]

Understand that i know Portland would need to have a team first. But with design/build you could have it start as a Minor League park for the Beavers and grow once a Major League franchise arrives.

$$$ That would be the reason why we havent seen any push to put a stadium at the north end of downtown, even if just a minor league stadium (though I would love to see Portland try for an AL team, whether through relocation or expansion...but that is for another topic). The reason why the city wanted to build it at the Memorial Coliseum or in Lents was because the money would come from those Urban Renewal Funds and not the general funds if built anywhere else. Kind of hard to talk voters into supporting a new ballpark with the current state of our economy, but having a ballpark in that area would be cool because depending on where it sat it would more than likely have the Fremont Bridge towering in the outfield view...could you just imagine that view while watching a baseball game. :tup:

[Valentij]

While retail is generally more sensitive than residential, realize that there is a little bit of chicken and egg going on here. Once Centennial Mills is renovated, the area will gain some energy and attention. I think that we've all been in that area because we're architecture freaks, but my guess is that most Portlanders haven't quite ventured out there. They probably don't even know the Waterfront Pearl exists, let alone the Pacifica. While it may be close in, the mix of train tracks, freeways, Naito, and horse poop make it feel like a no-mans-land. I tend to agree with people who argue that "average" people won't walk from the streetcar. They won't. But to that end, the presence of Naito parkway and ease of access from the freeway will be a benefit. They'll figure out the parking. There's still lots of space out there. It would also help if the waterfront bike path were more contiguous.

On a side note, my friends just moved into the Waterfront Pearl and I visited them last friday. That place is NICE! It was much cooler than I expected. It made me want to make the area work.

[65MAX]

^^^^
Are your friends Bob and Grant by any chance?

[urbanlife]

While retail is generally more sensitive than residential, realize that there is a little bit of chicken and egg going on here. Once Centennial Mills is renovated, the area will gain some energy and attention. I think that we've all been in that area because we're architecture freaks, but my guess is that most Portlanders haven't quite ventured out there. They probably don't even know the Waterfront Pearl exists, let alone the Pacifica. While it may be close in, the mix of train tracks, freeways, Naito, and horse poop make it feel like a no-mans-land. I tend to agree with people who argue that "average" people won't walk from the streetcar. They won't. But to that end, the presence of Naito parkway and ease of access from the freeway will be a benefit. They'll figure out the parking. There's still lots of space out there. It would also help if the waterfront bike path were more contiguous.

On a side note, my friends just moved into the Waterfront Pearl and I visited them last friday. That place is NICE! It was much cooler than I expected. It made me want to make the area work.

And the exact same thing was said about the Pearl 15 years ago...whats your point? The world changes.

Also the central eastside is still an industrial zone...nothing wrong with looking at underdeveloped areas in the city and try to figure out how to make them develop.

[bvpcvm]

And the exact same thing was said about the Pearl 15 years ago...whats your point? The world changes.

Also the central eastside is still an industrial zone...nothing wrong with looking at underdeveloped areas in the city and try to figure out how to make them develop.

Yes, the world changes. The Pearl rode a real-estate bubble, but, as you know, that's finished: we're now in a deep recession, and it's one that probably won't evaporate over night. That doesn't bode well for a new development that's several blocks from the closest streetcar stop, across the railroad tracks and a 5-lane road, surrounded by - police stables and a parking lot. Yes, let's hope it works out, but there will be challenges. There's nothing wrong with looking at underdeveloped areas, but let's be realistic about things.

[philopdx]

Yes, the world changes. The Pearl rode a real-estate bubble, but, as you know, that's finished: we're now in a deep recession, and it's one that probably won't evaporate over night. That doesn't bode well for a new development that's several blocks from the closest streetcar stop, across the railroad tracks and a 5-lane road, surrounded by - police stables and a parking lot. Yes, let's hope it works out, but there will be challenges. There's nothing wrong with looking at underdeveloped areas, but let's be realistic about things.

Provincetown Harbor - Nov 21, 1620 4:20 P.M.

William Bradford: I think we ought to get off this ship and see what's past that beach.

bvpcvm: Why would you do that?

William Bradford: Well, we came all this way, and we want to start a colony and all...

bvpcvm: But there's nothing there, Bill. No roads, no infrastructure, no utilties or transit!

William Bradford: What's "transit"?

bvpcvm: Nevermind. My point is, there's nothing there, and it doesn't bode well for development. We should turn back and call it a day.

William Bradford: Um, we rode on this clap-trap for over two months man, are you crazy? Let's go build some huts or something! Find some food!

bvpcvm: Build huts on what?? I mean best of luck to you Bill, but it's nothing but trees, and one big rock. C'mon, let's be realistic here. I'm going back to England. How long till the next boat?

[65MAX]

^^^^
Yes, it's kind of an absurd argument. There's nothing there so we shouldn't bother building anything there.

Frankly though, I don't see how ANY site within the I-5/I-405 loop can be described as "remote". Centennial Mills' success or failure will have more to do with what they actually do with the site, not whether or not there's a streetcar running nearby. If the concept and the execution of the project is well thought out, people will find a way to get there.

[rsbear]

Provincetown Harbor - Nov 21, 1620 4:20 P.M.

William Bradford: I think we ought to get off this ship and see what's past that beach.

bvpcvm: Why would you do that?

William Bradford: Well, we came all this way, and we want to start a colony and all...

bvpcvm: But there's nothing there, Bill. No roads, no infrastructure, no utilties or transit!

William Bradford: What's "transit"?

bvpcvm: Nevermind. My point is, there's nothing there, and it doesn't bode well for development. We should turn back and call it a day.

William Bradford: Um, we rode on this clap-trap for over two months man, are you crazy? Let's go build some huts or something! Find some food!

bvpcvm: Build huts on what?? I mean best of luck to you Bill, but it's nothing but trees, and one big rock. C'mon, let's be realistic here. I'm going back to England. How long till the next boat?

That's funny!

[bvpcvm]

^^^^
Yes, it's kind of an absurd argument. There's nothing there so we shouldn't bother building anything there.

Frankly though, I don't see how ANY site within the I-5/I-405 loop can be described as "remote". Centennial Mills' success or failure will have more to do with what they actually do with the site, not whether or not there's a streetcar running nearby. If the concept and the execution of the project is well thought out, people will find a way to get there.

Have you walked around down there? Seriously, just take a walk from The Encore over to Centennial Mills. It's not about being scared or apathetic about trying anything new, we're simply in a deep recession and this project is, on foot, remote. Sure, you could drive there but there won't be any parking. Did the Portland market they built in the 40's do well? It too was built a couple blocks off downtown, across a large highway from any pedestrian activity. If you think you can just ignore CM's location and pedestrians' unwillingness to walk more than a few blocks AND the fact that we're in long-term recession, well, great, more power to you.

:banana:

[urbanlife]

Have you walked around down there? Seriously, just take a walk from The Encore over to Centennial Mills. It's not about being scared or apathetic about trying anything new, we're simply in a deep recession and this project is, on foot, remote. Sure, you could drive there but there won't be any parking. Did the Portland market they built in the 40's do well? It too was built a couple blocks off downtown, across a large highway from any pedestrian activity. If you think you can just ignore CM's location and pedestrians' unwillingness to walk more than a few blocks AND the fact that we're in long-term recession, well, great, more power to you.

:banana:

How long do you expect us to be in a deep recession? Also, the Portland Market that was along the waterfront is a much different story than this that has a much different past...the Centennial Mills and the old Portland Market are two completely different things...that is like trying to say the Brewery Blocks cant be successful because that area use to be nothing but abandoned warehouses, or we cant build on the east side of the river because we have no bridges connecting.

So far your argument for this not to happen is all been today models..."today the area looks like this, so we shouldnt build." There is little weight to that. Do you honestly think downtown isnt going to grow? Again, the Pearl District isnt even a full square mile, we are talking about a very small area that will all get developed one way or another. What you see today is not going to be what you see in 10 years from now.

[tworivers]

Well, after watching the back and forth here for awhile, I think both sides have valid points. Overall, I tend to share bvpcvm's wariness. I don't think he's saying we shouldn't overhaul the Mills into the Seed project, just that he has his doubts as to whether it will fly. Those doubts are certainly valid: Seed has to be destination-worthy and perceived as authentic; presumably it will have to hit some sort of critical mass of year-round commerce to be financially sustainable; any timeline as to when new high-density residential towers will be under construction again in the Pearl (north end, specifically) is highly suspect; the location is outside of Portland's current centers of commerce (look at Sowa retail) and outside of most Portlander's current daily pathways; and the 'how' of getting there is an issue (again, currently). Having said all that, I think it should go forward and I hope that in ten years that whole section of the waterfront will be buzzing the way the south end around Riverplace does on a summer day. The risk is worth it. And even if Seed goes under and Lab disappears back to California, we'll still have a renovated Centennial Mills to utilize.

[bvpcvm]

So far your argument for this not to happen is all been today models..."today the area looks like this, so we shouldnt build." There is little weight to that. Do you honestly think downtown isnt going to grow? Again, the Pearl District isnt even a full square mile, we are talking about a very small area that will all get developed one way or another. What you see today is not going to be what you see in 10 years from now.

I haven't said we "shouldn't" build at all; that's you, projecting.

Look, we can barely get people to visit the second half of Pioneer Place - after ten years, connected by two indoor passages. A light rail stop at the front door didn't keep the Galleria from failing. What makes you think people will venture to CM? All I hear you saying is that if you build it, they'll come, and that any sort of caution should be thrown to the wind. Sure, maybe there'll be some sort of economic miracle and things will take off, but I'm pretty pessimistic that that will happen.

[urbanlife]

I haven't said we "shouldn't" build at all; that's you, projecting.

Look, we can barely get people to visit the second half of Pioneer Place - after ten years, connected by two indoor passages. A light rail stop at the front door didn't keep the Galleria from failing. What makes you think people will venture to CM? All I hear you saying is that if you build it, they'll come, and that any sort of caution should be thrown to the wind. Sure, maybe there'll be some sort of economic miracle and things will take off, but I'm pretty pessimistic that that will happen.

Projecting? I thought I was just summarizing what you were writing? I am guessing there is more to the Galleria not working that has been said in there, and I dont think it has anything to do with its location (because under that way of thinking, Nordstorms sits empty everyday.) And when it comes to the 2nd building at Pioneer Place? which one are you referring to and do you have any information to back such a claim up? This would be the first I have ever heard about anything like that....which one would think if people dont go from one building to the one next to it, it means that there is nothing to go to in the second building, therefore that has nothing to do with location or how it is connected to the city.

So this country never bounced back from the Great Depression? Or when the banks buckled in the 80's or the Dot Com bust in the 90s? Seattle must still be a baron waste land after the Dot Com bust? The housing boom and everything you see today is no different. The economy will change and there will be another boom again and another bust and another boom and another bust and so on because that is what we do. Therefore to think that this will go on "forever" (sorry just paraphrasing here because you did not say forever but do suggest such a word) makes no sense because there is no proof that this will last forever when basing it on past economic cycles.

[bvpcvm]

Of course there's no "proof" that the recession will go on forever, but given the amount of debt this country's in, the number of ARMs which haven't adjusted yet, the hugely overbuilt housing market, the North Pearl won't be picking back up for quite a while. For some depressing economic reading, I recommend any of Krugman's columns in the NYT. And for why we're doomed long-term, any of Friedman's columns about China's rise will do the job. Actually, let me just ask you this: when you graduate, do you expect to be able to find a job as an architect? From what I hear, the job market's terrible. So count Urbanlife as one more person who might otherwise buy a studio in the Pearl, but probably won't - not for now, anyway. Along with many, many others.

You're right - the Galleria had other issues. That's not my point. My point is that even with the advantage of having LRT directly across the street, it still managed to fail. You may not know this, having moved here recently, but back in the early 80's, the Galleria was the Pioneer Place of its day: the only shopping center downtown. And then it began its slow decline, because what it offered, even though for many years it was at the *end* of the MAX line, wasn't enough to attract people, especially in the face of competition from Pioneer Place. CM has an unproven/vague concept and a location far more dubious.

Regarding Pioneer Place, just go to both of the two buildings and notice which one has fewer people. OK, I'll save you a trip: it's the new building, the one closer to the river. It opened in 1999 or 2000 and has never been as successful as the original. The Oregonian and Business Journal have both reported on this repeatedly, though not, as far as I remember, recently.

To sum up: I have no problem with them building this thing, no problem with people trying something new (I'd love to see the Central East Side redeveloped), but this is one project I would not, at the moment, bet on.

[urbanlife]

Of course there's no "proof" that the recession will go on forever, but given the amount of debt this country's in, the number of ARMs which haven't adjusted yet, the hugely overbuilt housing market, the North Pearl won't be picking back up for quite a while. For some depressing economic reading, I recommend any of Krugman's columns in the NYT. And for why we're doomed long-term, any of Friedman's columns about China's rise will do the job. Actually, let me just ask you this: when you graduate, do you expect to be able to find a job as an architect? From what I hear, the job market's terrible. So count Urbanlife as one more person who might otherwise buy a studio in the Pearl, but probably won't - not for now, anyway. Along with many, many others.

You're right - the Galleria had other issues. That's not my point. My point is that even with the advantage of having LRT directly across the street, it still managed to fail. You may not know this, having moved here recently, but back in the early 80's, the Galleria was the Pioneer Place of its day: the only shopping center downtown. And then it began its slow decline, because what it offered, even though for many years it was at the *end* of the MAX line, wasn't enough to attract people, especially in the face of competition from Pioneer Place. CM has an unproven/vague concept and a location far more dubious.

Regarding Pioneer Place, just go to both of the two buildings and notice which one has fewer people. OK, I'll save you a trip: it's the new building, the one closer to the river. It opened in 1999 or 2000 and has never been as successful as the original. The Oregonian and Business Journal have both reported on this repeatedly, though not, as far as I remember, recently.

To sum up: I have no problem with them building this thing, no problem with people trying something new (I'd love to see the Central East Side redeveloped), but this is one project I would not, at the moment, bet on.

Actually I have no desire to live in the Pearl, I am not the type of person that area is built for and it is usually the area that I am least interested in in Portland, but that is a personal taste issue. Also, I graduated with my BA last june and still need to go for my masters so I actually havent been trying to find any work within the architecture field right now, but I can tell you that the entire field isnt hurting. The firms that were not structured for this down economy were going to fail, but firms like SERA are still finding work because there is still a new movement going on for "green architecture" also with the amount of money the federal government is dumping into things like high speed rail, there will be a number of projects coming online soon that will need the help of architects and engineers to do. Again, the fall of the housing market isnt much different that the fall of the office market in the 80s, we managed to get out of that, I dont see this being any different. Besides, this country has yet to have to face anything that was as bad as the Great Depression that effected people as a whole in this country.

Again, the Galleria has other issues that is not related to location or transit. I may not of lived here during its boom, but where I grew up has the same issue going on with the same thing in their downtown, so I know this kind of story, therefore it doesnt really relate to CM because it is a much different thing that what the Galleria was or what Pioneer Place it, has the Brewery Blocks hurt the Pioneer Place? Probably not that much if you are looking for the types of stores that are at Pioneer Place.

Also, you cannot base an opinion as heavy as that on just sight. Saying walking into the two buildings and tell me which one is busier doesnt really work, that is the same as saying I saw the street car the other day and it was empty so it must not be working. If you want me to buy into that argument I need to see data that proves such a thing. Also doesnt the east building have the theater in it? If I recall that is usually the only building that I go to when I go to Pioneer Place, so under that same analogy, it must be a success.


I have a random question for you that seems to go in line with this building, why is it Portlanders seem so afraid to take risks? It always seems like when anything new comes along the city and metro wants to walk in slowly from the shallow end, doesnt want to push anything too bold, doesnt want to make a strong statement about the city? I am surprised the city is even doing the renovation of the Federal Building, that has to be one of the more extreme things I have seen the city do here...renovating a mill isnt that big of a deal, it is important what kind of function it serves if it wishes to be a success, but mills have been renovated all over this country, it would be a shame to see this city not do the same with theirs just because it might not work...hell Portland could be struck with an earthquake tomorrow and leveled, why not take a small risk like this?

[2oh1]

Urbanlife, I'm actually a big fan of yours on this board. You're one of my favorite contributors here, but I think, for whatever reason, you're taking this discussion too personally. You're assuming things are being said that simply aren't. Yes, projecting.

"So this country never bounced back from the Great Depression?"

Surely you aren't suggesting that Portland has a plan with the magnitude and scope (locally of course) of the New Deal that would make a project like Centennial Mills worth building whether the market succeeds or fails simply for the sake of putting people back to work. This is no Tennessee Valley Authority we're talking about.

If a market is built at Centennial Mills before the surrounding neighborhood is ready (or even exists! Hello train tracks, vacant lots, future construction that may or may not happen and of course the vacant Encore!)... If the market is built before the surrounding neighborhood is ready, the project will fail. And then what will become of Centennial Mills?

"(sorry just paraphrasing here because you did not say forever but do suggest such a word)"

I know you're referring to bvpcvm, but that's an example of projecting.

Like I said, I'm a big fan of yours here, but I think you're being too hopeful and not realistic enough about the location and the timing of this project. And, for whatever reason, you're taking the discussion personally.

[awg]

A couple of observations:

Also, I graduated with my BA last june and still need to go for my masters so I actually havent been trying to find any work within the architecture field right now, but I can tell you that the entire field isnt hurting. The firms that were not structured for this down economy were going to fail, but firms like SERA are still finding work because there is still a new movement going on for "green architecture" also with the amount of money the federal government is dumping into things like high speed rail, there will be a number of projects coming online soon that will need the help of architects and engineers to do.

SERA has done a great job staying busy in this economy. But they were not immune and the stark reality is that the past 18 months have been brutal for architects. I think responsible design is tremendously important, but being "green" isn't going to save architects here. Having a strong background in publicly funded projects is what is keeping firms going during this stretch. Period. There is very little demand for any kind of new office space or new housing--so the for profit privately funded projects don't exist right now. Its a simple equation. We have too much housing, so we don't build any. Same with office space. Doesn't matter if its green housing or green office space. I don't have actual stats, but I would bet the unemployment rate for local architects is in the 20%-25%. The sky is not falling, the US will not go bankrupt, but it is serious for a great many local architects/designers. It will get better (this happens periodically in history), but most firms are not talking openly about hiring for at least another 9 months.

I have a random question for you that seems to go in line with this building, why is it Portlanders seem so afraid to take risks? It always seems like when anything new comes along the city and metro wants to walk in slowly from the shallow end, doesnt want to push anything too bold, doesnt want to make a strong statement about the city? I am surprised the city is even doing the renovation of the Federal Building, that has to be one of the more extreme things I have seen the city do here...

Can you expand on your question? Or perhaps, more accurately, do you believe Portland is much different than anywhere else? South Waterfront was a huge risk. Many of those buildings down there were $50+ million. OHSU was $140 million. The tram was a big risk. I think that was $50+ million. That kind of development doesn't happen in many other cities. Likewise, a building like the Sustainability Center isn't even discussed in any other city in the country--let alone a funded feasibility study.

The Federal Building is happening not because of Portland so much as because of the Federal Government footing the bill.

Maybe you are referring more to risk taking in design aesthetic...?

[urbanlife]

Urbanlife, I'm actually a big fan of yours on this board. You're one of my favorite contributors here, but I think, for whatever reason, you're taking this discussion too personally. You're assuming things are being said that simply aren't. Yes, projecting.

Actually, I am not really taking this personally, I actually dont have that much interest invested in the Centennial Mills other than it is a unique project that I would like to see happen.

In this discussion, there seems to be a factor in this that is being forgotten, this project will not be completed for a minimum of 5 years from now...who is to say this will be done in 10 years even...with that in mind, where was our economy 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago...each of those points we were at a different type of economy. 5 years ago it was great to be an architect, today, it is harder to find work, but those who have the love for it find new ways to express their talents within architecture and outward into the world of design. If nothing else, down times like this force those within the architecture field to think outside of their bubble and learn new ways to survive. (but I will address more about this later in the post.)


Surely you aren't suggesting that Portland has a plan with the magnitude and scope (locally of course) of the New Deal that would make a project like Centennial Mills worth building whether the market succeeds or fails simply for the sake of putting people back to work. This is no Tennessee Valley Authority we're talking about.

If a market is built at Centennial Mills before the surrounding neighborhood is ready (or even exists! Hello train tracks, vacant lots, future construction that may or may not happen and of course the vacant Encore!)... If the market is built before the surrounding neighborhood is ready, the project will fail. And then what will become of Centennial Mills?

Not at all, but if we are going to reference the Centennial Mills to such places like the Galleria that has a current situation that is in no way related to the challenges the Centennial Mills faces, then I saw that to be a good point to relate it to something like the New Deal because that would be considered in no way the same thing. Basically it is best to keep our references to projects with their similarities rather than just because to prove a point.

But you raise a valuable question, what is the Centennial Mills market? Is it the same as the Brewery Blocks when it was constructed? Or the Burnside Bridgehead project? Or the Jumptown project? Or the redevelopment of the Central Eastside development (without harming the current industrial areas?) The point that I am getting at is that Portland is at that point again where major changes in our urban fabric is coming...not this year...and probably not next year, but all of these projects will happen, therefore it makes no sense to say that we shouldnt do them just because present economy is a bad time to build...even though none of this is going to even begin for another 5 years.



I know you're referring to bvpcvm, but that's an example of projecting.

Like I said, I'm a big fan of yours here, but I think you're being too hopeful and not realistic enough about the location and the timing of this project. And, for whatever reason, you're taking the discussion personally.

Again, we come back to timing, I am hopeful about 5 to 10 years from now for Portland...with looking back on the past in 5 year increments, it is safe to say that it is a realistic assumption. Also, as I have pointed out, the Pearl District isnt even a square mile big, there is not much land there to work with and in 10 years from now I think it is safe to say the district will begin to run out of land to develop.

But most importantly, none of this is happening this year...so nothing we say is really beyond just speculation, therefore do we really need the "doom and gloom" and "this bad economy is going to last forever" talk? Should we be looking at Jumptown and the Bridgehead as failures waiting to happen? Should we expect there always to be land to develop in the Pearl? There is nothing wrong with being hopeful for a project that wont even happen for years to come.

[urbanlife]

A couple of observations:



SERA has done a great job staying busy in this economy. But they were not immune and the stark reality is that the past 18 months have been brutal for architects. I think responsible design is tremendously important, but being "green" isn't going to save architects here. Having a strong background in publicly funded projects is what is keeping firms going during this stretch. Period. There is very little demand for any kind of new office space or new housing--so the for profit privately funded projects don't exist right now. Its a simple equation. We have too much housing, so we don't build any. Same with office space. Doesn't matter if its green housing or green office space. I don't have actual stats, but I would bet the unemployment rate for local architects is in the 20%-25%. The sky is not falling, the US will not go bankrupt, but it is serious for a great many local architects/designers. It will get better (this happens periodically in history), but most firms are not talking openly about hiring for at least another 9 months.

Actually I have a joke that there is no such thing as an unemployed architect, there are only architects working for firms or architects working for themselves (or on their own projects and ideas.)

Oh no, we wont see any new buildings in the housing market here for a while (except for maybe smaller ones here and there.) But that wont last forever and eventually the housing market will pick back up here (and hopefully not over inflate itself like last time.) I remember hearing the office market isnt that bad, it isnt really growing, but it isnt overbuilt.

Also, most companies arent talking about hiring for another 9 months in general...we were told at my company that we will not have the chance to hire anyone else until July at the earliest.



Can you expand on your question? Or perhaps, more accurately, do you believe Portland is much different than anywhere else? South Waterfront was a huge risk. Many of those buildings down there were $50+ million. OHSU was $140 million. The tram was a big risk. I think that was $50+ million. That kind of development doesn't happen in many other cities. Likewise, a building like the Sustainability Center isn't even discussed in any other city in the country--let alone a funded feasibility study.

The Federal Building is happening not because of Portland so much as because of the Federal Government footing the bill.

Maybe you are referring more to risk taking in design aesthetic...?

I do mean that in the design aesthetics, we are seeing that change on the smaller level here and it is true that it isnt so much the architecture here that makes this city amazing as it is the culture and the streetcar neighborhoods that we have intact and growing. But I am really hoping the Sustainability Center and the Federal Building renovation go well and are top notch because Portland deserves to have cutting edge architecture that reflects the true nature of our city.

[Eco_jt]

After reading the back and forth on this thread it's easy to see both sides. As a long term investment to the area, I do believe the project will succeed. Personally, I am cautiously optimistic about the project. I am still one of the hopeful ones though...and I think the project will be able to attract people to Centennial Mills once it's all finished up.

I live right in front of Tanners Springs Park and during good weather, their are always people out and about. With all the projects scheduled and finishing up in the north Pearl (Pearl Family Housing, ENSO, The Overton, and The Freedom Center, + ?) it seems that the potential for a new vibrant North Pearl is possible by the time Centennial Mills is completed.

Pettygrove St. is also being designed as a "green street". A concept that will be sure to attract active, athletic, eco-minded, curious, citizens to it. As the North Pearl grows (albeit at a slower pace), elements of the neighborhood that don't feel connected right now...potentially could fit quite well in 5 years time.

The Fields park (a thread I can't seem to find) will also attract families and dog owners alike...bringing even more people to a greener, well designed park. All of these things are attractors.

Plus, their is a possibility that the USS Ranger (not a sure thing), a possibility not known by many, might park just near the Fremont Bridge and serve as a Museum. Their is a national non-profit called the USS Ranger Foundation (http://www.ussranger.org/) that is trying to save the Aircraft carrier from being sunk into the ocean forever by bringing it to Portland. The USS Midway in San Diego is a huge attractor of people which could happen in the North Pearl if the USS Ranger is indeed brought to Portland.

The planning committee for the Pearl District Neighborhood Association seems to think that if all these things pan out (in the next five years) that the city will most likely look into putting in streetcar lines along Naito parkway.

The way the PDNA sees it, that if the synergy of a possible Jumptown or other Memorial Colosseum idea comes to fruition, then a ferry service could be created to connect Jumptown, to a marina near Centennial Mills / (possible Aircraft carrier Museum), and also connect over to Southwest Water front.

The vision is their, how likely it will all happen is totally up in the air as we all know...nothing is for sure in this current recession.

Oh and here is an update on the Fields Park progress, posted to the PearlDistrict.org website earlier today :tup:

-------------------------------------------------------

Update | The Fields Neighborhood Park

After a two-year hiatus, Portland Parks & Recreation (PP&R), the Project Advisory Committee, and design consultant the Office of Cheryl Barton are back at work on The Fields Neighborhood Park, refining the original concept plan and moving into schematic design.

Recent developments continue to move the long-awaited park, located at NW Overton and NW 11th Avenues, forward towards construction. Last fall, PP&R furthered the public involvement process and recruited two focus groups to provide much needed insight into two key park spaces: the Children’s Play Area and the Dog Area. The results: parents and child advocates clearly indicated the need for active, engaging, and kinetic activities; dog owners and advocates expressed concern over the size of the proposed dog area.

Currently, the design consultant is taking that feedback back to the drawing board – literally – to refine and further develop each of those two spaces. Ultimately, the final design will be the result of the available space, the public’s priorities, the need to balance needs to serve an entire community, and the limitations of the budget.

Refinements of the plan will be available for viewing from March 1st through March 6th at Umpqua Bank, NW 12th and Lovejoy. PP&R staff and Advisory Committee members will be on hand to discuss the design and answer questions at the following times:

Monday, March 1st, 9:00 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
Wednesday, March 3rd, 12:00 noon – 2:00 p.m.
Friday, March 5th, 4:00 p.m. – 6:00 p.m.
Saturday, March 6th, 10:00 a.m. – 2:00 p.m.

Comment forms will be onsite all hours – so stop by, take a look, and tell us what you think of the designs for The Fields.

Background

The Fields Neighborhood Park is the third park outlined in the 2001 Portland River District Park System Urban Design Framework Study. Two parks in the study have already been completed and opened, including Jamison Square (completed 2002) and Tanner Springs Park (completed 2005).

The Fields project was initiated in January 2007 with the Project Advisory Committee, including representatives from local Pearl District organizations as well as a cross-section of neighborhood residents, to guide the design process. Community priorities for the new park were established through questionnaires, a workshop, and an open house. The overwhelming consensus was for green open space in what was once the industrial and transportation hub of Portland.

[Okstate]

There, their, they're. Sorry, Tantrum Tuesday! :)

[pdxtraveler]

Plus, their is a possibility that the USS Ranger (not a sure thing), a possibility not known by many, might park just near the Fremont Bridge and serve as a Museum. Their is a national non-profit called the USS Ranger Foundation (http://www.ussranger.org/) that is trying to save the Aircraft carrier from being sunk into the ocean forever by bringing it to Portland. The USS Midway in San Diego is a huge attractor of people which could happen in the North Pearl if the USS Ranger is indeed brought to Portland.


I have been following the USS Ranger thing. I didn't realize they were thinking along the bank of the river. Is the river wide enough to anchor an aircraft carrier (even a WWII carrier) and still have a navigatable channel. I thought it was going up off Swan Island. It would be really cool to anchor off the Pearl, just didn't know it would be possible.

[pdxhome]

Plus, their is a possibility that the USS Ranger (not a sure thing), a possibility not known by many, might park just near the Fremont Bridge and serve as a Museum. Their is a national non-profit called the USS Ranger Foundation that is trying to save the Aircraft carrier from being sunk into the ocean forever by bringing it to Portland. The USS Midway in San Diego is a huge attractor of people which could happen in the North Pearl if the USS Ranger is indeed brought to Portland.


This is interesting, and would be cool for the City. How much of a possibility is this? I can't imagine that ship fitting in the Willamette...

[Eco_jt]

I'm pretty sure it's not actually in Pearl District boundaries but right to the North side of the Fremont Bridge (is all I remember from the meeting)....so close...their is a particular spot that was being sought, but I can't remember the exact river parking dock # they referenced, I'll find out though...

the ED came to a board meeting requesting neighborhood support for the proposal back in December...which we were all in favor of. =)

[CouvScott]

http://www.pdc.us/pdf/about/commission_meeting/2010/1110/Report-No-10-105-Centennial-Mills.PDF

[bvpcvm]

According to the NW Examiner (http://www.nwexaminer.com/issues/05May2011.pdf) (p.10), this project is on the verge of falling through, due to PDC changing the rules mid-stream.

[tworivers]

I wasn't even sold on the viability of the SEED idea, but this just seems like reprehensible and stupid behavior on the part of the PDC. Why even work with them if, four years down the project pipeline, a new director can come in and simply flip the script on you?

Disagreement between developer, PDC jeopardizes Centennial Mills project
POSTED: Monday, June 27, 2011 at 03:21 PM PT
BY: Nick Bjork
link to original (http://djcoregon.com/news/2011/06/27/disagreement-between-developer-pdc-jeopardizes-centennial-mills-project/)


Trouble could be brewing for the Portland Development Commission’s long-awaited redevelopment of a former flour mill into a foodie’s mecca on the west bank of Portland’s Willamette River.

The company selected more than four years ago to lead the redevelopment project, the Costa Mesa, Calif.-based Lab Holding, is concerned that a philosophical shift at the PDC under the direction of new Executive Director Patrick Quinton is at odds with the project the company has set out to complete. And unless the differences can be worked out, it could be difficult to go forward with the project.

“Our team got involved in this project because of our expertise in creating unique public spaces,” Lab Holding President Shaheen Sadeghi said in a letter about the current state of the project. “Centennial Mills is a beautiful complex with potential to become a landmark for Portland. We are afraid that PDC’s new direction will severely limit this potential.”

Sadeghi is concerned with a recent directive from the PDC that requires 50 percent of the overall project – approximately 75,000 square feet – to be leased to businesses that sell globally. And preferably, these businesses will be in the five cluster industries the PDC is working to develop. These industries include software, activewear and outdoor gear, clean tech and sustainable industries, advanced manufacturing, and research and commercialization. The move, according to Quinton, is to align the project more completely with PDC’s current job creation strategy.

Since hiring Quinton in March, the PDC has focused strictly on job creation. In addition to the adoption of the cluster industries report, job creation was emphasized by the recent completion of the Neighborhood Economic Development Strategy, which will be reference by the PDC when making decisions from now on.

“The focus hasn’t necessarily shifted, but we have underscored the direction we are heading,” said PDC spokesman Shawn Uhlman.

LAB holdings won the right to redevelop the PDC owned Centennial Mills site in 2006. The firm’s pitch – titled SEED – was to repurpose the area into a vibrant public space that promoted Portland’s existing culinary culture and connected the waterfront to the Pearl District. This would include several small, vendor-like spaces that offered local, artisan food, as well as ample public space and some office space on the higher floors.

“Our inspiration for the SEED at Centennial Mills project comes from the great food halls of the world,” Sadeghi said.

In 2008, a memorandum of understanding was signed between the firm and PDC that laid out how the project should move forward. The next step was the development of the disposition and development agreement, which specifically laid out the public and private investments on the project and the timeline the project would occur. That was expected in late 2010, but no DDA has been presented to the PDC Board of Commissioners yet.

The preliminary idea was that the firm would invest about $40 million into the project and the PDC would use $8.6 million in urban renewal dollars to help with the completion of it.

“The revised proposal for Centennial Mills is a radical departure from the initial (Request for Proposal) offering, and we believe a destructive approach to retooling a historic structure, and counterproductive to the community base of the SEED project,” Sadeghi said. “If the original RFP required conventional office space, our company, which specializes in community based, historic and site-specific products, would never have submitted a proposal.”

Sadeghi projected that the SEED proposal would create nearly 900 jobs, but he said shifting the project to more of an office focus would not only go against his research, but would also be an unsuitable use for the specific historic complex.

“The new limited focus on five industries not only precludes other viable economic drivers, but also ignores those variances that a particular location, building or neighborhood may present, as is the case of Centennial Mills,” he said. “There are numerous existing opportunities for PDC to create new large office buildings suitable to attract these users.”

Lab Holding would like to move forward with the original vision for the project and has asked the PDC to commit to it. But PDC officials have yet to respond.

[cab]

The PDC is a joke of late. They have been systematically making the wrong choices for the last few years. What exactly have they done of late? I think its becoming more and more obvious that local Portland gov. is hitting an era of incompetence. It was a good run for the area, but look at Metro, PDC, PDX all right now are pretty bad. Its such a shame. It was interesting living through a pretty enlightened time in local governance. I think David Bragdon nailed it when he left. Its really sad. I really don't see any progressive, smart, logical people in any position of power in any local governments.

[2oh1]

...a recent directive from the PDC that requires 50 percent of the overall project – approximately 75,000 square feet – to be leased to businesses that sell globally.

What The #&#%? That doesn't even make sense for this project. I can't even imagine someone who lives in Portland suggesting such a thing for this project. Did the PDC just hire someone from out of state? Because it seems inconceivable that a Portlander would even have a thought like that for a new local market, let alone a food market! It doesn't even make sense.

I understand the desire to attract global business TO Portland, but NOT at the expense of local businesses or local projects. For the record, I don't even think I'm in favor of this particular project. At least, not in this location. But this demand from the PDC makes no sense unless the PDC DOESN'T want development of this site.

Wow. This is really nuts.

[tworivers]

Blame game emerges in costly, failed effort to bring foodie hub to Portland waterfront's Centennial Mills
Published: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 8:12 PM Updated: Thursday, June 30, 2011, 9:38 PM
Brad Schmidt, The Oregonian

The tab arrived Thursday for a failed 3-year-old concept to convert a closed Pearl District waterfront warehouse into a nationally recognized foodie hub.

Portland taxpayers, that'll cost you almost $500,000.

The city's urban renewal agency and a California-based developer officially terminated efforts to convert Centennial Mills into a high-end food court, leaving the historic building no closer to new life than when the Portland Development Commission bought it 11 years ago.

And that tab is just for the latest concept. The total investment has proved to be one of the biggest in the River District urban renewal area, with at least $13 million sunk into a project now headed back to the proverbial drawing board.

At issue Thursday, the deadline for negotiations to conclude, was whom to blame. The president of LAB Holding, which won a competition in 2008 for the right to broker a deal, said the city changed requirements late in the process.

"Our firm was interested in this site based on our programming of developing the Portland world-class culinary culture," Shaheen Sadeghi told The Oregonian in an e-mail. "For PDC to now ask us to redirect this project to an office product is absolutely unreasonable."

PDC officials, however, countered that the company never lined up tenants or financing -- for restaurants or offices. And, they said, the world has changed since 2008; now it makes little sense to spend millions more on a project that won't capitalize on jobs the city wants to target, such as athletic clothing and solar or turbine technologies.

GS.61MILL101.jpgView full size
"He had three years to present a viable project. And he never presented, as I said, any real interest by any real entities after being asked more than once," Scott Andrews, PDC board chairman, said of Sadeghi. "And had he done that, even at this stage of the game, I think there's a good chance we would have extended the arrangement."

Three years ago, the two sides crafted a nonbinding agreement for a concept featuring local businesses, healthy restaurants, outdoor recreation retailers, wine tasting and an organic produce market. They hoped it would be a premier destination, representing Portland's anti-chain values in the city's trendiest upstart neighborhood.

But there was never a development deal -- only negotiations and extended deadlines. By late 2010, estimated construction costs to remake the five-acre site reached almost $46 million. Yet that wasn't enough for the project to pencil out, and didn't include $8 million to move the city's police Mounted Patrol Unit or build a pedestrian bridge to the site over Northwest Naito Parkway.

Even so, a November staff report didn't recommend changing course because Centennial Mills' building configuration "does not readily lend itself to use by large employers" and "seeking another development opportunity ... would significantly delay development and raise questions regarding PDC's commitment to its development partners."

LAB and PDC negotiated through March 21, and PDC set aside an additional $11.5 million for the project in its five-year budget. But March 28, the PDC project manager emailed Sadeghi to tell him support for the proposal "as envisioned has evaporated," according to documents obtained Thursday under the state's public records law.

PDC planned to review "the direction, financial feasibility and other critical elements," the email said, and LAB was cautioned to "minimize time and funding" until agency leadership had more clarity. LAB representatives met with PDC officials April 12.

On April 20, the PDC's new executive director, Patrick Quinton, wrote to Sadeghi to tell him he needed secure tenant commitments for at least half the site's 150,000 square foot from companies given priority in the city's economic-development strategy.

Sadeghi countered in a May 9 letter that the city strategy had existed for 18 months with no indication that the PDC wanted a new direction. He asked the PDC to forgive more than $480,000 in grants and loans, and to reimburse his company for expenses -- a number that's unknown because the PDC redacted it from the records provided to The Oregonian.

Quinton responded June 9 saying LAB wouldn't have to pay back "the benefit of nearly half a million dollars in public funding" so long as PDC received all documents and analysis regarding the project. But PDC wouldn't pick up the company's expenses, he wrote, concluding that "it makes the most sense to us to let the (agreement) expire on June 30."

That now leaves the agency -- which had already invested at least $12.5 million in the property before LAB got involved -- with a decrepit building, no developer and no plan.

Andrews said the PDC probably made a good decision to buy the property in the first place -- if a venture ultimately emerges.

"Success is an economically viable project," he said. "And in today's world, that means you have to have real tenants and you have to have real interest from a financing institution. Because we're not going to be financing all of it."

Real estate investor Al Solheim has some sympathy for the PDC. But Solheim, who sat on the evaluation committee that picked LAB, wasn't willing to offer criticism or advice. Only this:

"I've never been a proponent of the renovation of Centennial Mills," he said. "I'm not surprised that it's reached an impasse."

-- Brad Schmidt

[MarkDaMan]

Three companies express interest in Centennial Mills: Portland City Hall roundup
Published: Wednesday, September 07, 2011, 9:24 AM
By Brad Schmidt, The Oregonian

About three months after Portland's urban renewal agency abruptly changed course on its long-stalled Centennial Mills redevelopment project, officials now have three informal offers to consider.

Art DeMuro's Portland-based Venerable Development, partnering with the Schnitzer family's Harsh Investment Properties, would like to turn the former warehouse and mill site into a mix of office space, retail, restaurants and apartments or condominiums.

California-based Intrinsic Ventures, which renovated the Ford Building at Southeast 11th and Division Street, also expressed interest but didn't provide details. Company officials tentatively were scheduled to visit Centennial Mills on Thursday.

Another California company, Humboldt Bay Energy, is apparently interested in moving its "global corporate headquarters" to the World Trade Center in downtown Portland. That company -- which has a bare-bones website and can be contacted via a yahoo.com email address -- is interested in "potentially using the Centennial Mills site as a mass production, assembly and distribution center."

Top leaders for the Portland Development Commission will review the letters of interest this week and eventually determine how to proceed, spokesman Shawn Uhlman said.

The agency in June ended three years of negotiations with California-based Lab Holding, which hoped to turn Centennial Mills into a foodie hub. A blame game emerged, as the company's president said PDC at the last minute wanted to turn the project into office space. City officials said Lab never put together a viable project with financing or tenants.

Looking to move forward, Portland Mayor Sam Adams and PDC Chairman Scott Andrews in July asked "public-service minded investors" to contact them about redeveloping Centennial Mills, which is in Portland's River District urban renewal area.

PDC already has invested at least $13 million into the site, which it bought in 2000.

Venerable was one of the companies that competed against Lab in 2008 to redevelop Centennial Mills.

http://blog.oregonlive.com/portlandcityhall/2011/09/three_companies_express_intere.html

[2oh1]

Humboldt Bay Energy -- which has a bare-bones website and can be contacted via a yahoo.com email address

AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!!!!! That's comedy!

[Eco_jt]

just gotta say if this project was derailed because of a conflict of interest that would be extremely lame :sly:

PDC Mishandles Centennial Mills, Conflict of Interest Emerges (http://www.neighborhoodnotes.com/news/2011/09/pdc_mishandles_centennial_mills_conflict_of_interest_emerges/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
By Ben Waldron
Neighborhood Notes
September 26th, 2011

"The much-publicized Centennial Mills redevelopment project is in the midst of a new, controversial chapter. Since June, the relationship between the Portland Development Commission (PDC), which owns Centennial Mills, and LAB Holding, the California-based firm chosen to develop the site, has slid into disarray and finger-pointing. Moreover, PDC’s handling of the situation has been marked by a lack of transparency, erratic behavior, and unrealistic expectations. And at the heart of this mess may be a good old-fashioned conflict of interest story.

Key to the kerfuffle is Scott Andrews, chair of the PDC’s board of commissioners. Andrews also serves as president of Melvin Mark Properties, part of Melvin Mark Companies, whose food market and office development project gained momentum at the same time that developer LAB Holding’s culinary-themed Centennial Mills project was derailed...."

rest of the story here (http://www.neighborhoodnotes.com/news/2011/09/pdc_mishandles_centennial_mills_conflict_of_interest_emerges/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

[zilfondel]

C-o-r-r-u-p-t-i-o-n

[MarkDaMan]

What has happened to the PDC? During the Katz years, that was THE economic and development powerhouse in Portland. Now it's weak, and not getting anything done.

[pdxtraveler]

What has happened to the PDC? During the Katz years, that was THE economic and development powerhouse in Portland. Now it's weak, and not getting anything done.

They hadn't been gutted politically at that time. They were let to do what they wanted and got things done. Now they are analyzed and fought at every turn.

[MarkDaMan]

Portland Development Commission sued for $1.7 million over Centennial Mills
Published: Friday, November 18, 2011, 3:39 PM
Brad Schmidt, The Oregonian

A disgruntled California developer is suing Portland's urban renewal agency for more than $1.7 million after a proposal to remake Centennial Mills abruptly fell apart this year.

A costly blame-game emerged in June when the Portland Development Commission and Lab Holding ended negotiations that began in 2008.

Lab President Shaheen Sadeghi argued the city changed requirements at the last minute, away from a food-centric focus and toward office space. PDC officials claimed the company never lined up tenants or financing for the project, aimed at rehabbing a derelict set of buildings overlooking the Willamette River in Northwest Portland.

Now Sadeghi, through his company Project Seed LLC, is attempting to recoup expenses of more than $1.7 million he says he spent for planning, development and consultant fees. The lawsuit, filed Wednesday in Multnomah County Circuit Court, claims Project Seed relied on false representations by PDC and the agency breached its contract.

Neither officials for the PDC nor the developer immediately returned calls Friday seeking comment. The lawsuit also names the city of Portland.

Three years ago, the two sides crafted a non-binding agreement -- called a memorandum of understanding -- for a concept featuring local businesses, healthy restaurants and an organic produce market. They hoped it would be a premier destination, representing Portland's anti-chain values in the city's trendiest upstart neighborhood.

Although no development deal had emerged by November 2010, a PDC staff report did not recommend changing course. Centennial Mills' building configuration "does not readily lend itself to use by large employers," the report stated, and "seeking another development opportunity ... would significantly delay development and raise questions regarding PDC's commitment to its development partners."

Both sides continued negotiating through March 28, when a PDC official e-mailed Sadeghi to tell him support for the proposal "as envisioned has evaporated." In April, PDC Executive Director Patrick Quinton told Sadeghi that at least half of the 150,000 square foot site needed tenant commitments from companies prioritized in the city's economic-development strategy.

Sadeghi countered in May that the strategy had existed for 18 months with no push for a new direction. He asked the PDC to forgive more than $480,000 in grants and loans, and to reimburse his company for expenses.

Quinton responded in June by saying LAB would not have to pay back "the benefit of nearly half a million dollars in public funding" but the PDC was unwilling to cover expenses.

Taxpayers have invested more than $12.5 million into the Centennial Mills site, which is no closer to development today than when the PDC bought it in 2000.

-- Brad Schmidt

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/11/portland_development_commissio_9.html

[NJD]

Here we go again...

PDC hopes to identify Centennial Mills developer in July
DJC

A Portland Development Commission committee is now prepared to choose between two proposals to redevelop the property: one from the team of Venerable Properties and Harsch Investment Properties, and one from Seattle-based Daniels Real Estate.

more... (http://djcoregon.com/news/2012/06/05/pdc-hopes-to-identify-centennial-mills-developer-in-july/)

[Shilo Rune 96]

Here we go again...

Seriously. Although without the pedestrian bridge via the Fields Park, I don't see this being as convenient as most Pearl residents are used to. It's a bit awkward getting over there on foot.

[2oh1]

And for anyone who isn't a Pearl resident, I don't see this being a draw at all.

[tworivers]

Anyone have an idea of what the 2 current plans are? I remember Venerable's proposal years ago as being mixed-use focused, though I wonder about the potential for any sort of architectural dynamism if Art Demuro (wonderful preservationist/not-so-wonderful faux-historic fetishist) is involved.

[tworivers]

Lawsuit claims Portland Development Commission killed Centennial Mills proposal to benefit agency's board chairman
Published: Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 8:00 PM Updated: Thursday, July 12, 2012, 6:06 AM
Brad Schmidt, The Oregonian

Officials at Portland's urban renewal agency are considering two proposals for their off-track Centennial Mills project while fighting a related lawsuit accusing them of killing the original plan to benefit the agency's board chairman.

A Multnomah County judge is expected to decide this month whether to dismiss the $1.7 million lawsuit, filed against the Portland Development Commission by a spurned California developer.

Shaheen Sadeghi has accused the PDC of breach of contract and claims that PDC officials sandbagged his proposal -- to redevelop the mill site into a food hub -- to eliminate competition with a similar, nearby project, the James Beard Public Market.

Sadeghi claims agency officials reversed course in 2011, after three years of negotiations, to benefit PDC board Chairman Scott Andrews. Andrews is president of Melvin Mark Properties, and his father-in-law is the chairman of the Melvin Mark Cos.

A Melvin Mark division separate from Andrews' is behind a deal for the public market and an office tower that Multnomah County approved last month for the west side of the Morrison Bridge.

Sadeghi alleges that PDC officials killed his proposal "to eliminate competition with the Morrison Bridgehead project in which Chairman Andrews has a significant and personal economic interest," according to his March 26 amended lawsuit.

Andrews declined to comment. An attorney representing the PDC said in court documents that the accusation is "irresponsible and completely without merit."

The lawsuit complicates efforts to move forward on a new concept for Centennial Mills, a site along the Willamette River in Northwest Portland. City leaders want the property to provide office space for industries such as software or sports apparel companies, not the food concept they embraced back in 2008.

But under any scenario, renovations will take years and require taxpayer money beyond the $13 million already spent since the city acquired the site in 2000. And with a new mayor taking office in January, the PDC could get new marching orders.

Negotiations for Centennial Mills fell apart in spring 2011, when city officials told Sadeghi that he had about three months to revise his proposal to include vast amounts of office space. Both sides had been operating under a nonbinding memorandum of understanding, not a formal development agreement.

Sadeghi first sued in November but a judge dismissed his breach-of-contract claims. Sadeghi told The Oregonian this week that he plans to keep fighting, even if his amended lawsuit is kicked out.

"If you change your mind, you pay for it," Sadeghi said of the PDC. "You don't burn the developer who came in and invested in the community's dream."

Sadeghi said his initial lawsuit didn't make accusations against Andrews because he simply hoped to recoup expenses without "getting into a huge can of worms."

But Sadeghi said he decided to exercise "all of the legal rights that are available to us" after the PDC hired Portland's Ball Janik law firm to fight the lawsuit.

Sadeghi called Melvin Mark "the chairman's company," referring to Andrews, and asked rhetorically, "You're telling me you wouldn't be concerned?"

In court documents, the PDC's attorney wrote that Sadeghi has "attempted to fabricate some supposed connection" between the projects "based simply on the coincidental fact that certain events had overlapping dates."

City officials hope to move forward on Centennial Mills despite the lawsuit.

An evaluation committee is privately weighing two proposals, one from the Portland team of Venerable Development and Harsch Investment Properties, the other from Seattle-based Daniels Real Estate. Agency spokesman Shawn Uhlman declined to say whether a recommendation has been made.

Daniels Real Estate has pitched a scaled-back version of its 2008 proposal, which included about 400,000 square feet of housing and 169,000 square feet featuring retail, office and a hotel.

Venerable and Harsch recommended 80,000 square feet for employment, 71,000 square feet for retail and 42,000 square feet for apartments. Venerable, which also competed in 2008, also called for 36,000 square feet of a use that PDC redacted from records obtained by The Oregonian through the state's public records law.

"Bluntly stated," Venerable Development wrote in a presentation to the PDC, "this is a high risk project that as currently planned, may be far from financial viability and will require substantial redesign and value engineering in order to viable."

-- Brad Schmidt

[Eco_jt]

I do feel bad for Sadeghi because everything seemed that the foodie hub was on track...or so we were all told. The neighborhood association was very much in support of the food hub project and the bridge.

The way this whole story un-folded from all the articles that came out did sort of seem like PDC was snuffing Sadeghi for the James Beard Market...but who really knows?

I am glad for the James Beard Market, but what PDC did to the Centennial project was uncalled for in my opinion. A lot of people were looking forward to that project including me =/

Oh well.

[bvpcvm]

I think the James Beard Market is in a far better location; Centennial Mills is just too far out (for the next ten years or so). But it really does feel like PDC just made up a reason to get rid of Sadeghi.

[2oh1]

I think the James Beard Market is in a far better location; Centennial Mills is just too far out (for the next ten years or so).

THIS. THIS. THIS.

But it really does feel like PDC just made up a reason to get rid of Sadeghi.

Aaaaaaaaaaand, sadly, this too.

I've never been in favor of the Centennial Mills project. The location, the railroad tracks, the parking... the whole thing... to me, it looks like a black hole for money and resources. I could easily picture a grand project there being a complete flop. And if the way PDC has managed it thus far is any indicator... yikes.

[MarkDaMan]

Developer Art DeMuro’s death delays Centennial Mills redevelopment plans
Premium content from Portland Business Journal by Wendy Culverwell , Business Journal staff writer
Date: Friday, September 14, 2012, 3:00am PDT

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/print-edition/2012/09/14/developer-art-demuros-death-delays.html

The death of a key partner in the long-awaited redevelopment of Centennial Mills is clouding the project’s future.

Art DeMuro, president of Venerable Group Inc., died Saturday.

Craig Kelly, vice president of Venerable, said it was notified by the Portland Development Commission that its joint venture with Harsch Investment Properties would advance, though no timeline is in place.

PDC officials this week confirmed the city’s economic development arm intended to negotiate a development agreement with the Venerable-Harsch team.

A Harsch spokeswoman said Harsch President Jordan Schnitzer called an emergency meeting Saturday after learning of DeMuro’s death to discuss Centennial Mills. The project is on hold, she said.

Patrick Quinton, the PDC’s executive director, was expected to reaffirm its commitment to pressing ahead with Centennial Mills when the commission met this week, but no other reports were expected.

Venerable and Harsch submitted the apparently winning proposal to PDC after the agency advertised to potential investors more than a year ago. PDC wants to redevelop the 4.75-acre site near the Broadway Bridge. PDC bought the mill for $7.7 million in 2000 and immediately shuttered it, anticipating turning the site into a public space.

Its vision for the property has changed with time.

After initially envisioning a public space, it inked a deal with LAB Holding LLC of Costa Mesa, Calif. to create an entertainment-themed district at Centennial Mills. That agreement expired in 2010 and the city’s goals shifted toward a more commercial vision.

Portland Mayor Sam Adams and PDC officials want the site to include office space catering to traded-sector companies in the software, apparel, clean technology and manufacturing sectors.

The mill opened in 1910 as Crown Mills and served foreign markets for U.S. grain markets.

It was renamed Centennial Mills in 1955 and underwent a major modernization in the 1960s. It operated until PDC acquired and closed it.

The standalone flour mill remains vacant, but the property serves as home to the Portland Police Department’s Mounted Patrol Unit offices, stables and paddock.

A buried pipe carrying Tanner Creek bisects the property.

Fast Fact

The Harsch-Venerable team unites one of Portland’s largest real estate operators, Harsch, with one of its best-known historic preservation firms, Venerable.

Wendy Culverwell covers real estate, retail and hospitality.

[tworivers]

Can anyone unlock this DJC story?


Centennial Mills team reconvenes after developer’s passing (access required)
POSTED: Friday, October 5, 2012 at 07:26 AM PT
BY: Lee Fehrenbacher

The evaluation committee tasked with choosing a development team for the Centennial Mills redevelopment reconvened on Thursday to review a revised proposal from Harsch Investment Properties and Venerable Properties.

[New Madrid]

I'm no help with that article, but I will say it would be a shame if Venerable's role was diminished/complicated by DeMuro's passing.

Especially considering that his death was not out of the blue (he'd be battling cancer for awhile, no?) I would hope that allowances/plans had been made for this eventuality.

[pdxdave]

Apr 9, 2013, 10:46am PDT
Suzanne Stevens
Web editor
Portland Business Journal

Harsch gets PDC assist on Centennial Mills development

The Portland Development Commission has approved a predevelopment loan of $350,000 for Harsch Investment Properties to conduct due diligence and design for redevelopment of Centennial Mills.


http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/real-estate-daily/2013/04/harsh-gets-a-pdc-assist-on-centennial.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[MarkDaMan]

According to the PDC project report, Harsch's preliminary plan for the site includes 80,000 square feet for industry and traded-sector employment uses, 71,000 square feet of retail space, 36,000 square feet for the arts, 42,000 square feet for residential and 295 parking spaces.

WTF??? When did all this get decided? 295 parking spaces?

[cab]

PDC forget the 90's lets go back to the 70's!

[tworivers]

The dream of the 70's is alive.

Also, it seems unlikely that this project will be moving forward. The document says so itself -- premium costs, less-than-premium location, especially for office. I get the feeling that the PDC doesn't really want to even deal with C Mills at this point and would rather just demolish and go with the original "open space" plan.