[MrVandelay]

Is Bellevue a "new Brooklyn?"
By Danny Westneat
Seattle Times staff columnist
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003476791_danny14.html

BELLEVUE — The corner of Northeast Eighth Street and 106th Avenue Northeast is the perfect place to ponder: What is Bellevue, anyway?

You can see what it used to be. Here sits an abandoned gas station of vintage "Googie" architectural style: low-slung with a sloped carport roof jabbing optimistically toward the sky, as if about to take flight. It was built to signify the Jetsons space age. It says: This is suburbia, where everybody can have a big car with fins and room to park it.

But it's slated to be torn down. In its place: the new Bellevue, a mega-development of five high-rise condo towers.

If you look up, you can see eight tower cranes running simultaneously, racing to stack Bellevue vertically so nobody ever accuses it of sprawl again.

And if you stand at this corner and listen, you can hear what else Bellevue is today.

Which is ... Brooklyn?

"You've got to be kidding me," says Caryl Abergel, who's from Detroit and whose husband, Robert, is an immigrant from the real Brooklyn.

Abergel runs Topolino's Pizza ("The True Taste of Brooklyn") in a strip mall at this same downtown corner. When I was standing there, trying to listen to Bellevue, her cook and a driver began shouting in heavy New Yorkerese about a botched delivery.

I tell her there's a new book that says Bellevue is one of the nation's "New Brooklyns." Titled "Boomburbs: The Rise of America's Accidental Cities," it argues that our quintessential whitebread suburb is now so packed with immigrants it actually looks more like New York's famed borough.

"I don't think so — maybe a very, very white-collar Brooklyn," Abergel says.

But as I eat my pizza, someone orders in Russian-accented English. An East Indian woman stops by for soup. A quarter of the passers-by are people of color, usually Asian.

The book's author, Virginia Tech professor Robert Lang, says he doesn't mean Bellevue feels urban like Brooklyn. It surely doesn't — downtown feels more like a giant mall than ever, now that it has four of them. Three are insufferably titled "The Bellevue Collection." Only Bellevue would "collect" malls.

Lang says he means that Bellevue is a "cosmoburb" — a place tagged as a white suburb that is no longer either white or suburban. Bellevue now is less white than Seattle and has nearly as high a share of foreign-born residents (32 percent) as Brooklyn (38 percent).

Yet people can't bring themselves to call it a real city. At the Wikipedia online encyclopedia, the folks writing Bellevue's entry first labeled it a suburb, then a city, then back to suburb. After a big argument, they settled on the '90s term "edge city."

So what is Bellevue?

Whatever it is, it ain't no bedroom community. It's so brash it's demanding a subway tunnel. There's even research out debunking the notion that places like Bellevue are socially isolating. A UC Irvine study says burbs are more social than high-density cities.

Figures. Everything we thought we knew about suburbs is wrong. And just as we're figuring that out, they aren't suburbs anymore.

[Dr. Smoke]

Oh, that's easy: Bellevue is the definition of retrograde culture... hideous, hidebound RepublicanLand, with copious anger and frustration. :sly:

[MrVandelay]

^^^ Sounds like Dr. Smoke feels a bit threatened. :D

I like Bellevue. Its clean and very culturally diverse. I think of it more as an Edge city than a suburb anymore. Its starting to rank pretty high against other skylines of major cities in the US. Its a pretty exciting time for bellevue right now, with the growth of the downtown! We would be on the map even further if the sonics move their team to town and Bellevue has a major stadium built!

[westsider]

^ I'm sure they would still be called the Seattle Supersonics though. Beaverton, a suburb of Portland fits that discription. It gets dispairaged as just being surburban sprawl even though its denser and more diverse than Portland.

[seaskyfan]

It's hard to call Bellevue "RepublicanLand" anymore. They're sending more Democrats to the state legislature these days.

I've been really impressed by what's going on in Downtown Bellevue - I remember how sterile it used to be and it's great to see more pedestrians around.

[ratbear]

Two reasons why Bellevue is so diverse:

1. Subsidized housing in the Crossroads and Lake Hills neighborhoods

2. Close proximity to Microsoft and the tech industry in general (foreign engineers).

There are still vast swaths of almost exclusively white neighborhoods, although that too is starting to diminish. Apart from the smallish urban core of downtown, Bellevue is as suburban as it gets.

[MtnClimber]

Two reasons why Bellevue is so diverse:

1. Subsidized housing in the Crossroads and Lake Hills neighborhoods

2. Close proximity to Microsoft and the tech industry in general (foreign engineers).

There are still vast swaths of almost exclusively white neighborhoods, although that too is starting to diminish. Apart from the smallish urban core of downtown, Bellevue is as suburban as it gets.

Its not just the subsidized housing and Microsoft. Its the enormous amounts of Asians who are moving to bellevue who have money from all over the Puget Sound area.

[horatio_the_hermit]

Asians dont contribute to diversity. Asians contribute to the whitebread effect but with a FOBby aftertaste . It sounds terrible and Im not proud of it but I was raised in bellevue and fell that, on this matter, i speak the truth.

[SeattleHusky82]

Asians dont contribute to diversity. Asians contribute to the whitebread effect but with a FOBby aftertaste . It sounds terrible and Im not proud of it but I was raised in bellevue and fell that, on this matter, i speak the truth.

Wtf? Just because Asians are often better off than other minorities and are rather affluent doesn't mean they don't add to the diversity. That was a pretty ignorant statement. Do you have some animosity towards all the Asians who are getting all the good grades at Newport?

And somehow I'm the one on this forum that gets accused of being a racist. Go figure.

[MrVandelay]

It seems that cultural diversity ranks pretty high among people on this forum for what defines a city, but what about other aspects? Los Angeles is stacked with suburbia, but if you look at some of these suburban cities, they have quite a bit going for them such as city centers, sea ports, and in some cases their own Intl airport (John Wayne for example).

I recently read an article that more people are employed within the city limits of bellevue than the number of people that actually live there. I would think that would mean people outside of Bellevue are commuting here to work, which starts to sound more like a 'City' than a 'suburb'.

Perhaps the result of past urban sprawl, is the birth of downtown cores appearing in previous city suburbs.

[MtnClimber]

Wtf? Just because Asians are often better off than other minorities and are rather affluent doesn't mean they don't add to the diversity. That was a pretty ignorant statement. Do you have some animosity towards all the Asians who are getting all the good grades at Newport?

And somehow I'm the one on this forum that gets accused of being a racist. Go figure.


Often times the problem with liberals is that they equate diversity with being poor and ghetto. I wish more people would realize the true agenda of many so called do gooders.

[mhays]

That's just your agenda talking. Most liberals wouldn't leave affluent Asians out of their definition of diversity.

[horatio_the_hermit]

Too many white people make a place whitebread and stagnant but, too many of another race is, of cousre, inherently diverse.
Right.
The area I live in has more Asian residents than white. Therefore, couldnt it be deduced that with every new asian resident comes a step AWAY from diversity.

And in response to SeattleHusky, I enjoy your use of old-time scholarly Asian stereotype. In fact, in my graduating class (about 40% Asian), the top 5% and 10% represent an almost perfect spread of our racial makeup. And yes, I am in both.

[horatio_the_hermit]

I realize that some of my arguments sound racist, and i apologize. I use gross overstatements to better communicate my points.

Please understand that I enjoy and respect Asian culture. As it could be assumed, my best friends ARE Asian, foreign and domestic born.

Bellevue, however, is not different from other north american neighborhoods with high concentrations of ethnic groups. It is common knowledge that when an area becomes very heavily concentrated with one (non-white) group, other ethnicities will be pushed out.

[mhays]

It's true that diversity is about a wide spread of cultures, income levels, and ages. But there are a lot of Asian cultures in Bellevue.

[bgwah]

Wtf? Just because Asians are often better off than other minorities and are rather affluent doesn't mean they don't add to the diversity. That was a pretty ignorant statement. Do you have some animosity towards all the Asians who are getting all the good grades at Newport?

And somehow I'm the one on this forum that gets accused of being a racist. Go figure.

Right, you only hate "most" black people...

[SeattleHusky82]

Right, you only hate "most" black people...

LOL. Again, please show me some proof when I made any racist comments towards black ppl. The hilarious thing about this accusation is that I AM black. You absolutely have no basis for those statements at all.

[horatio_the_hermit]

Alright, sorry i started this all.
There are a lot of Asian cultures in Bellevue, youre right, im wrong, my apologies.

[bgwah]

LOL. Again, please show me some proof when I made any racist comments towards black ppl. The hilarious thing about this accusation is that I AM black. You absolutely have no basis for those statements at all.

Threads that have no replies after several months are deleted.

For clarification that I am thinking of the correct poster, are you the bus driver?

[Black Box]

Wtf?

[SeattleHusky82]

Threads that have no replies after several months are deleted.

For clarification that I am thinking of the correct poster, are you the bus driver?

No, I am not "the bus driver".

Next time get your facts straight before you start making these absurd statements. That's the kind of behavior that'll get your butt whooped someday.

[77e]

I recently read an article that more people are employed within the city limits of bellevue than the number of people that actually live there. I would think that would mean people outside of Bellevue are commuting here to work, which starts to sound more like a 'City' than a 'suburb'.

Woodinville, Tukwila, Renton, and Redmond also have more jobs than people living in them. That does not make them 'cities'.

Having a good balance of jobs and housing is ideal.

[mhays]

The jobs/residents ratio is partially based on happenstance regarding where city limits are located.

Bellevue's job base isn't terribly related to its municipal population. DT Bellevue is the #2 downtown for King County.

[bgwah]

No, I am not "the bus driver".

Next time get your facts straight before you start making these absurd statements. That's the kind of behavior that'll get your butt whooped someday.

Sorry, I must have been thinking of another forumer with Seattle in their name.

[MrVandelay]

Woodinville, Tukwila, Renton, and Redmond also have more jobs than people living in them. That does not make them 'cities'.

Having a good balance of jobs and housing is ideal.

if all these outside cities (suburbs) have more jobs than residents, then where are all the workers commuting in from? There isn't that much unincorporated king county residents.

[mhays]

Add up the pops of those places. They're a relatively small part of King County.

Also, King County serves as a job center for people in other counties. There's a major imbalance with Pierce.

[MrVandelay]

Add up the pops of those places. They're a relatively small part of King County.

Also, King County serves as a job center for people in other counties. There's a major imbalance with Pierce.

hmmm, I wonder if the same goes for snohomish as well then???

[Bear]

if all these outside cities (suburbs) have more jobs than residents, then where are all the workers commuting in from? There isn't that much unincorporated king county residents.

Other suburbs - it is the hot new trend - all the jobs moved to the suburbs in the 1980's and 1990's and no one car pools or takes transit, because in the past everyone could plan on going into the downtown of the major city to work. Now they drive alone (and with Bin Laden) as they commute from their suburb to another suburb on overutilized roads that were never designed for such traffic

[MrVandelay]

So from what i gather from most of you, you view bellevue as more of a 'super suburb' than a city or edge city? According to city hall, Bellevue is the second largest employement center in King County.

In many large US cities, Phoenix, Dallas, and Houston for example there are multiple downtown cores, Seattle seems to have one core, and minor one that emerged around the U district, but that is about it. Perhaps there really is no second choice other than moving to one of the seattle suburbs for skyscrapers, and Bellevue just has the laws and infrastructure in place to allow them??? :shrug:

[Bear]

Seems to me these calls for diversity represent some deep seated self-racism on thee part of white people. No one mentions that a lot of the people moving to Bellevue are russian - does that not add to cultural diversity - it is not all about being brown, yellow, rich or poor. I grew up in NYC and their are a lot of russians and eastern europeans living in area that were predominanntly black or hispanic, and I am glad to see some of that type of diversity as well. Remember their are parts of the country where not every white person is a WASP and Greeks, Italians, Polish, Irish, Scandanavians, etc. have as much to do with providing diversity as Asians, Blacks and Latinos

[mhays]

Of course those groups are part of "diversity". Your uninformed guess about other people here is probably off base in most cases.

[Bear]

Of course those groups are part of "diversity". Your uninformed guess about other people here is probably off base in most cases.

Nope - I am sorry - but you are wrong - their is no quota system in any affirmative action or other government policy that says "foreign born caucasian" . Neither government, nor the majority of liberals ever speak to the presence of this group when speaking about diversity

[Bear]

Of course those groups are part of "diversity". Your uninformed guess about other people here is probably off base in most cases.

Nope - I am sorry - but you are wrong - their is no quota system in any affirmative action or other government policy that says "foreign born caucasian" . Neither government, nor the majority of liberals ever speak to the presence of this group when speaking about diversity - they just are not recognized as "adding diversity". The people here have mentioned asians, blacks and latinos

[mhays]

Did I mention a government program or quota? Read before you post.

[Bear]

Did I mention a government program or quota? Read before you post.

I did read your post, I mention the government quota because it reflects the public attitude of what constitutes diversity.

Think beyond your own post for a minute. I was expounding on my own post more than I was replying to yours.

[mhays]

You said "you are wrong".

Tell me how I was wrong, based entirely on my posts. Put up or shut up.

[77e]

DT Bellevue is the #2 downtown for King County.

Yes, downtown Bellevue is the second downtown in King County in terms of a central business district with high-rise buildings.


According to city hall, Bellevue is the second largest employement center in King County.

Downtown Bellevue is not the second largest employment center in the county according to a PSRC report on regional growth centers (http://www.psrc.org/projects/monitoring/rgc.htm). (Keep in mind, I am talking about just the CBD employment, not all of Bellevue.)

After downtown Seattle, two other PSRC-defined urban centers had higher employment than downtown Bellevue in 2000: First Hill/Capitol Hill and the University District. [See table 18 (http://www.psrc.org/projects/monitoring/pdf files/chapter2.pdf) in chapter 2.]

In addition, the Duwamish and Paine Field manufacturing/industrial centers had more employees in 2000. [See table 26 (http://www.psrc.org/projects/monitoring/pdf files/chapter3.pdf) in chapter 3.]

[Bear]

You said "you are wrong".

Tell me how I was wrong, based entirely on my posts. Put up or shut up.


You said my opinion was "uninformed", I told you the facts that supported my opinion. you are the one making sweeping assumptions about me saying things about posters on this board. I was speaking to calls for diversity in general. in the big picture, beyond your small world of this forum. I was stating that you never hear diversity described on the basis of white europeans contributing tothat diversity and substantiated the same by pointing out the these groups, like Russians, are never accounted for in surveys that supposedly measure diversity.

I will not waste any more time responding to your pithy, vague interrogations. If you do not get my point after reading this, I will have to assume you are some form of mental midget

[mhays]

You've repeatedly made specific accusations about other people that you don't know -- the very definition of uninformed. My statement is true.

I'll let readers decide who's the mental midget here.

[Bear]

You've repeatedly made specific accusations about other people that you don't know -- the very definition of uninformed. My statement is true.

I'll let readers decide who's the mental midget here.

OK - big guy - I am no match for your incredible brain power - I surrender to you - you win the big prize

[Dr. Smoke]

^^^ Sounds like Dr. Smoke feels a bit threatened. :D
Eh?

I must be grossly 'misunderestimated' or something, because I never, never intended to sound threatened.

I was just saying the truth.

(Hm, now, how can I threaten MrVandelay?)

[urbanlife]

I am gonna take the much, much lighter road for this question.


Bellevue is full of nerds.......what? it is.....and they make way more money than I do.

Bellevue isn't all that bad after you get past that feeling of selling you soul.....you know that same feeling that comes with LA.

[MrVandelay]

Downtown Bellevue is not the second largest employment center in the county according to a PSRC report on regional growth centers (http://www.psrc.org/projects/monitoring/rgc.htm). (Keep in mind, I am talking about just the CBD employment, not all of Bellevue.)

After downtown Seattle, two other PSRC-defined urban centers had higher employment than downtown Bellevue in 2000: First Hill/Capitol Hill and the University District. [See table 18 (http://www.psrc.org/projects/monitoring/pdf files/chapter2.pdf) in chapter 2.]

In addition, the Duwamish and Paine Field manufacturing/industrial centers had more employees in 2000. [See table 26 (http://www.psrc.org/projects/monitoring/pdf files/chapter3.pdf) in chapter 3.]

Yes if you break apart the cities into sections, CBD, industrial, etc, it might look differently. City of Seattle does contain a heck of ALOT of Jobs! you are definitely right about that. but if you look at it, city by city, the stat I made above about bellevue being the second largest employment center in King County is correct.
Bellevue I think is getting an unfair rap as being just a bedroom suburb.

2005 Employment in Puget Sound Region by city....
(the stats below does not count 'self employed' people)
http://www.psrc.org/data/econ/CityEmp2005.xls click on '2nd tab' at bottom

Seattle: 465,689 jobs
Bellevue: 113,306 jobs
Tacoma: 101,192 jobs
Redmond: 82,073 jobs
Everett: 69,169 jobs
Kent: 60,258 jobs
Renton: 48,304 jobs
Tukwilla: 40,628 jobs