[401_King]

These areas are sort of similar right? Wikipedia says Chicagoland area is 10,874 sq. mi.
28,163 km²

Does anybody know what is the golden horseshoe area and population is?

[boden]

4 horse feet?

[shappy]

edit: oops... I was comparing GTA as opposed to Golden Horseshoe.

[dbennion]

Ummm that's a damned good question. The area of the GTA is 7,000 SQ kms. There is a Golden Horseshoe and a Greater Golden Horseshoe, apparently.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Goldhorse.PNG

Eyeballing the above link, I would estimate the GH is about 50% larger than the GTA, say 10,000 Sq Kms. The GGH would be several times that, maybe 30,000 or 40,000 Sq kms.

So shoot me if I'm wrong.

[waterloowarrior]

greater golden horseshoe population is 7.8 million according to the greater golden horseshoe plan

[MonkeyRonin]

I thought it was 8.6 million? or is that the Greater Extended Greater Golden Horeshoe?

[Sacamano]

Who cares whose penis is longer

[Waterlooson]

I thought it was 8.6 million? or is that the Greater Extended Greater Golden Horeshoe?

Your figure is correct for the Government of Ontario's definition for the Greater Golden Horseshoe.... but Stats Canada uses a different definition.

[Waterlooson]

Who cares whose penis is longer

Women.:haha:

[waterloowarrior]

The numbers are (in millions) (government of Ontario - I don't have 2006 numbers)

2001

GTA - Hamilton - 5.81
"Outer Ring" - 1.98
Total Greater Golden Horseshoe - 7.79

2011

GTA - Hamilton - 6.86
"Outer Ring" - 2.23
Total Greater Golden Horseshoe - 9.09

2021

GTA - Hamilton - 7.77
"Outer Ring" - 2.56
Total Greater Golden Horseshoe - 10.33

2031

GTA - Hamilton - 8.62
"Outer Ring" - 2.88
Total Greater Golden Horseshoe - 11.5


GTA-Hamilton is Toronto, York, Peel, Halton, Durham, Hamilton

"Outer Ring" is Waterloo Region, Wellington, Kawartha Lakes, Brantford, Peterborough, Guelph, etc

http://www.pir.gov.on.ca/english/growth/gghdocs/FPLAN-ENG-WEB-ALL.pdf
p47

if you want to figure out the area... add up the areas of the municipalities in the list from the PDF above

[icescraper]

I really don't care for these metropolitan area bragging right arguements. Generally they extend far beyond any visual cues of a city. I mean Phoenix has a metro pop of about 2.8 million. Its downtown is small compared to Calgary at 1 million. Looking at Maldives "2010 diagram" which save for a major crash of the ecomony is conservative puts Toronto uncontestably as the number 3 skyline in North (and dare I say South?) America. - ice

Let the hate mail begin....

[jeremy_haak]

Looking at Maldives "2010 diagram" which save for a major crash of the ecomony is conservative puts Toronto uncontestably as the number 3 skyline in North (and dare I say South?) America. - ice

I would tend to agree with you re: the number 3 skyline in North America. I think it could legitimately lay claim to that title right now. I do have to say, though, seeing Sao Paulo's sea of skyscrapers leaves me doubting that Toronto would be able to claim such a high position for the Americas as a whole. They might not be beautiful, but they are certainly far more impressive than Toronto's offering.

[miketoronto]

These Metro stats mean nothing. And they mean even more nothing, when you are talking about US cities.

I have been to Chicago, and driven through areas that are considered Chicagoland. The areas I was in where over one hour driving time from downtown Chicago and where basically just farm fields.

Once you get that far out, you are not part of any city anymore, and I find it hard to believe people that far out are that connected with the mother city or even visit that often.

For all intent Toronto stops at Oakville, as that is the end of the census metro area. After Oakville everything belongs to Hamilton :)

[vid]

Look at it this way:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3554/chicagorontohq5.png

They're not all that dissimilar. :) Sure, Chicago has more people and more really tall skyscrapers, while Toronto has more clout (In it's respective nation) and a taller phallic object, but both of them have a port. Both of them have a lot of suburbs. Both of them have a lot of history. Both of them are unique in their countries. The similarities outnumber the dissimilarities.

Looking at the office area, Downtown Toronto is The Loop, North York Centre is Schaumburg. Both of them have their country's most busy airport.

[401_King]

holy crap, i just want to know two facts: population and area. thanks to those who tried to answer.

to the whiners:

if you having nothing positive to say or cant answer my question, why are you bothering to post on this thread?. bring your attitude elsewhere please.

[ssiguy]

Does the ExtGH include the 420,000 in Simcoe?

[vid]

According to the map posted by dbennion, yes.

@401_King: Torontonians and Chicagoianiters are very sensitive when it comes to being compared. You would have been better just looking up the info yourself. No matter how civilised and professional your question was, you would still get the childlike bickering demonstrated today in this thread.

[401_King]

@401_King: Torontonians and Chicagoianiters are very sensitive when it comes to being compared. You would have been better just looking up the info yourself. No matter how civilised and professional your question was, you would still get the childlike bickering demonstrated today in this thread.

gimmie a break. theres nothing wrong with asking what i asked. i just want to know two statistical facts. if everyone is too sensitive about this then you all need to grow up thats really silly

[roch5220]

Does it matter? In the states, when small towns a lot further out start reach 50K CA, large metro areas start looking to add them to their CSMA even outside of the actual standards they should be using. It does matter if you are trying to compare US calculated metros to CDN calculated. I've posted this question to those before who have said that you wouldn't include the GHS or even the GTA into a single metro when comparing US CSMA. Are there any US examples like Toronto, where you virtually of 3 CSMAs right next to each other (in the example of Toronto an Hamilton, they are right next to each other and share the same burbs, and are connected via subdivisions via lakeshore)?

[Jackhammer]

I really don't care for these metropolitan area bragging right arguements. Generally they extend far beyond any visual cues of a city. I mean Phoenix has a metro pop of about 2.8 million. Its downtown is small compared to Calgary at 1 million. Looking at Maldives "2010 diagram" which save for a major crash of the ecomony is conservative puts Toronto uncontestably as the number 3 skyline in North (and dare I say South?) America. - ice

Let the hate mail begin....


Look out for Panama too !

[Gdoggy]

Let's end this now !!!

just make chicago part of the Hyper Extended Golden Horseshoe...
problem solved

[miketoronto]

Does it matter? In the states, when small towns a lot further out start reach 50K CA, large metro areas start looking to add them to their CSMA even outside of the actual standards they should be using. It does matter if you are trying to compare US calculated metros to CDN calculated. I've posted this question to those before who have said that you wouldn't include the GHS or even the GTA into a single metro when comparing US CSMA. Are there any US examples like Toronto, where you virtually of 3 CSMAs right next to each other (in the example of Toronto an Hamilton, they are right next to each other and share the same burbs, and are connected via subdivisions via lakeshore)?

METRO NEW YORK is like that. NYC, Newark, Jersey City are all their own metro areas. NYC's actual Metro Area really only has 9 million people.

Its when they consolidate it with other metros that you get the 20 million figure, because it includes Newark, etc.

[Waterlooson]

^^^ The NYC metro also includes a big part of Connecticut.

[Taller Better]

Who cares whose penis is longer


That is one contest that it is nice to be the winner! :haha:

[vid]

That is one contest that it is nice to be the winner! :haha:

Until 2010 when Chicago Spire blows CN out of the water. :cheers:

[roch5220]

METRO NEW YORK is like that. NYC, Newark, Jersey City are all their own metro areas. NYC's actual Metro Area really only has 9 million people.

Its when they consolidate it with other metros that you get the 20 million figure, because it includes Newark, etc.

New York CMSA is over 20 odd million. It includes those areas you are talking about. Just as Washington and Baltimore are linked.

http://www.december.com/places/nyc/cmsa.html

My point is that in Canada we use CMA, in the USA they use CMSA. They are calculated differently as if you calculated Toronto's CMSA, you would include Hamilton, Oshawa, Barrie, and KW. Hence if you are comparing the chicago (which is no doubt larger), you would be comparing it to a much larger Toronto than its CMA, which would be 7-8 million.

[miketoronto]

Thats why I don't like the USA's CMSA stuff. It over inflates population's of metro areas.

Why should places over an hour outside of NYC and closer to Philly be counted as part of NYC CMSA, when those people hardly ever go into NYC.

[MonkeyRonin]

American MSA populations are much more reasonable and "true" (though still pretty big by comparison). I don't know why MSA's aren't used more commonly. Althouhg Chicago doesn't even have one..

[vid]

Duluth, Minnesotas CMA is bigger than Mass., Rhode Island and Connecticut COMBINED, and has three cities in it that, in Canada, would be separate MAs. They wouldn't be CMAs as the prerequesite for a CMA is to have an urban municipality of over 100,000 people, which would be impossible under the American system of Government since it's urban area is so fractured.

[orangeman]

I although think it is very rediculous to include such large areas as part of a city's cmsa or whatever you want to call it and i have voiced such before in other threads. Anyway, back to the thread, I think Toronto and Chicago are very similar in population, etc etc etc as one poster mentioned before in this tread.

[orangeman]

I although think it is very rediculous to include such large areas as part of a city's cmsa or whatever you want to call it and i have voiced such before in other threads. Anyway, back to the thread, I think Toronto and Chicago are very similar in population, etc etc etc as one poster mentioned before in this tread.

[boden]

I although think it is very rediculous to include such large areas as part of a city's cmsa or whatever you want to call it and i have voiced such before in other threads. Anyway, back to the thread, I think Toronto and Chicago are very similar in population, etc etc etc as one poster mentioned before in this tread.



It is difficut to judge metro areas from statistics...especially outside Canada comparisons. Boston, for example has a bigger metro than Toronto, as does San Fransisco, Baltimore, Philadelphia, Miami, Detroit and Dallas. Houston's and Atlanta's are virtually the same size as Toronto's. Chicago's is roughly twice the size of Toronto's, and LA's is approximately three times the size.
Those are official statistics. Are they accurate? I suspect not. Having lived in Chicago and spent lots of time in Toronto I find it hard to believe that Chicago's metro is twice the size of TO's. It doesn't feel so...but maybe it is.

[softee]

^ That's because it isn't. It's more like 25% bigger at most.

[Taller Better]

Chicago felt much bigger when I was there, compared to Toronto, and we drove around a lot.

[boden]

^ That's because it isn't. It's more like 25% bigger at most.


What statistics do you base that on softee?

[softee]

It's just a very rough estimate comparing the population of Chicago's metro to that of the Golden Horseshoe.

[vid]

Yeah, how many people actually go from Evansville to Chicago, or Aurora to Chicago? Probably the same amount that go from Oshawa to Toronto or Kitchener to Toronto. Yes, there are some that make the commute, but not that much.

[sl64]

This is from wikipedia, so obviously take it with a very large grain of salt, but apparently the area of the GGH (I assume the expanded area laid out in Places to Grow) is "about 33,500 square km", or around 13,000 square miles, and has an estimated 2006 population of 8.6 million. For comparison, Chicagoland is 10,874 square miles with an estimated 2006 population of 9,443,356. It seems to me like that "25% larger" guess is pretty close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicagoland

I can't find a more trustworthy source. Anyone else?

[WZ1]

Yeah, how many people actually go from Evansville to Chicago, or Aurora to Chicago? Probably the same amount that go from Oshawa to Toronto or Kitchener to Toronto. Yes, there are some that make the commute, but not that much.


When i was 17 I lived in Lisle, IL it is on the same METRA line as Aurora. I used to take the train 4 days a week to Chicago when i worked at my fathers office in the summer, on the way home in rush hour by the time we got to Downers Grove and Lisle, most of the train had got off.. not that many people go all the way to Aurora. Somtimes they even stop the trains at Lisle.