[SpongeG]

It appears technically possible to run a rapid transit rail service from Surrey’s Scott Road SkyTrain Station all the way to downtown Langley.

But it would be tricky and expensive.

Those are the key findings of consultants hired by TransLink to take a first look at the feasibility of reopening passenger rail service on the old electric interurban rail route, which linked Vancouver to Chilliwack until it was shut down in the 1950s.

Rough cost estimates range from $350 million for a diesel-powered heavy rail system with nine stations to $700 million for an electric light rail system that would be more frequent and allow 16 stations along the 27-kilometre route.

The study by DRL Solutions Inc. shows possible station locations and assumed frequent service – not the peak-only service offered by the West Coast Express from Vancouver to Mission.

The concept so far hasn’t been at the top of TransLink’s vision to serve projected growth in Surrey and Langley.

“It wouldn’t stand out as our first choice,” said Graeme Masterton, TransLink’s program manager of transit planning.

Instead, bus rapid transit, eventually replaced by light rail lines, are eyed for King George Highway and 104 Avenue, and potentially the Fraser Highway and Highway 1.

But reviving the historic interurban route has captivated rail fans and gained momentum.

Surrey city council voted this fall to hire its own project manager to explore a community rail option on the route. A volunteer group is restoring old interurban cars in hopes of launching a heritage run for tourists.

And even TransLink has said all ideas are on the table as it works with locals to draw up a new South of Fraser area plan to chart the future of transit as the sub-region grows from 600,000 now to one million by 2031.

“We said, ‘Okay, let’s have a look’,” said TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie. “What would it take to make it happen?”

A lot, it turns out.

The consultants tabled a long list of challenges:

- Railway operators may oppose the passenger rail idea, fearing it will hinder freight runs. The study assumes local Surrey freight trains would run at night only and trains that don’t stop locally will be rerouted via another line.

- The route through Surrey is flanked by two lines of B.C. Hydro transmission poles, which would be costly and complex to move if the line must be double-tracked.

- Heavy and growing congestion on the segment of the CPR line that would be used from Cloverdale to Langley.

- Tightened regulations are expected to run passenger service on a route shared with freight trains.

Advocates of the interurban route are undeterred.

“We did not see anything that was a show stopper,” said former Surrey and Langley Township planner Terry Lyster, who is a member of VALTAC (Valley Transportation Advisory Committee).

“Those are large numbers,” he said of the cost estimates. “But the numbers to build new crossings of the Fraser River are much larger.”

He noted the per kilometre costs are less than a quarter of construction costs for TransLink’s new $1.9-billion Canada Line or $1-billion proposed Evergreen Line.

Getting a fair shake in transit spending is one of the motives at play – some see TransLink sucking plenty of money out of Surrey and Langley residents and investing most of it in deluxe transit systems north of the river.

“They’ve run out of money and they’ve done nothing for the South of the Fraser area,” charged Peter Holt, executive director of the Surrey Board of Trade.

He and others suspect the transportation authority has engineered the study to inflate the costs and squash the interurban rail route aspirations.

Lyster also believes a community passenger rail service along the line can be started at less cost than projected.

They argue double tracking the existing Southern Railway of B.C. line through Surrey isn’t necessary as long as there are lots of stations with sidings where passenger trains would allow freight trains to pass.

And some say it could be done even more cheaply just as far as Cloverdale, truncating the more complex leg to Langley.

“It can technically be done,” said Allen Aubert, one of Surrey’s two representatives on TransLink’s South of Fraser planning committee. “I think it’s fairly positive.”

He sees a community railway powered by hydrogen fuel cells that could be a demonstration project in time for the 2010 Olympics, drawing support from the government’s Hydrogen Highway initiative.

“It could be quite unique and completely pollution free,” said Aubert.

One hydrogen fuel station already exists. It’s run by B.C. Hydro’s Powertech Labs in Surrey and is located on 88 Avenue, precisely where that road intersects the old interurban line.

TransLink and local rail advocates agree on at least one thing: people mainly need to move between neighbourhoods in Surrey and Langley, not commute to downtown Vancouver.

That’s backed up by TransLink research that shows more than 85 per cent of trips by residents south of the Fraser stay within the region.

Twice as many people commute from Surrey to Langley or vice-versa than go to downtown Vancouver.

Those stats persuaded TransLink that what’s needed isn’t a peak-hours only commuter service geared solely to get Surrey and Langley residents to the SkyTrain and on to Vancouver.

TransLink officials promise more work to explore the potential of the interurban route. The next step, to happen by the end of 2007, is to estimate potential ridership and revenue – key elements for determining the viability of a service.

Because higher density development would surely follow a light rail line, TransLink will also be looking to Surrey council for guidance.

Opposition from city hall would likely sink the route, officials hint, while strong support could catapult it into serious contention.

THE FOUR OPTIONS:

Heavy Rail – Diesel

Push-Pull

- $363 million.

- Same as West Coast Express, with engines at each end of the train.

- 30-minute peak service. Hourly service off-peak.

- 40-minute run time, including stops.

- Nine stations.

- Peak hourly passenger capacity: 1,608.

Heavy Rail – Diesel Multiple Units:

- $356 million.

- ‘Budd’ cars, each self-propelled by diesel.

- 30-minute peak service. Hourly service off-peak.

- 40-minute run time, including stops.

- Nine stations.

- Peak hourly passenger capacity: 1,504.

- Project may be reliant on only a single supplier of cars.

Light Rail – Diesel Multiple Units:

- $592 million.

- Each articulated car self-propelled by diesel. Similar to Ottawa’s O-Train.

- 15-minute service.

- 42-minute run time, including stops.

- 16 stations.

- Peak hourly passenger capacity: 3,240.

- Top speed isn’t as fast as heavy rail, but light rail cars accelerate and brake much faster, cutting travel time and allowing more station stops.

Light Rail – Electric Multiple Units:

- $697 million.

- Each car with own electric power. Similar to light rail lines in Calgary, Portland.

- 15-minute service at all times.

- 42-minute run time, including stops.

- Nine stations.

- Peak hourly passenger capacity: 2,048.

- Electric option would be greenest solution.

Some costs like acquiring property, engineering and environmental studies aren’t included. But there is an extra 30 per cent for contingency.

Stations

The route runs initially southwest from the Scott Road SkyTrain station to the Scott Road corridor, then angles southeast to Cloverdale and east to Langley.

The following station sites were tentatively identified:

- Terminus at Scott Road SkyTrain station. Passenger rail trains to arrive at same level as SkyTrain.

- Three stations (only one if heavy rail is chosen) near 120 Street between 100 Avenue and 88 Avenue.

- Stations at 128 Street and 84 Avenue, 132 Street near 79th (light rail only), King George Highway and 72 Avenue, 144 Street at 68 Avenue (light rail only) and 152 Street at 65 Avenue.

- Two stations in Cloverdale near Highway 10, at 168 Street and 176 Street.

-In Langley, two to five stations on two different possible routes, depending if heavy or light rail is chosen. The light rail option shows five stations through the downtown core, ending at Kwantlen University College. The heavy rail route runs further north, closer to Langley Bypass and the Willowbrook Mall.

http://www.surreyleader.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=73&cat=23&id=794897&more=

http://web.bcnewsgroup.com/portals/uploads/surrey/.DIR288/interurban_Langley_50sGREY_061217.jpg

A study by DRL Solutions Inc. finds a rapid transit rail service from North Surrey to Langley City is possible, a service which hasn’t been provided since an electric interurban route (above) which ran from Vancouver to Chilliwack was discontinued in the 1950s.

[mr.x]

i don't think the cost is inflated. for a 27-km line, costs sound just about right.

awesome news anyhow.

[eduardo88]

really wish this would get built. we need more rail in the region. hopefully they choose bombardier talent dmu or emu trainsets, they're probably the best suited for this.

www.fahrgaeste.de/img/bahn/020515_bombardier.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/VT644_RB23.jpg

btw this train comes in 2,3, and 4 car configuration which can be coupled to form longer trains and can be diesel, diesel-electric or fully electric.

[Policy Wonk]

- Railway operators may oppose the passenger rail idea, fearing it will hinder freight runs. The study assumes local Surrey freight trains would run at night only and trains that don’t stop locally will be rerouted via another line.


Not "may oppose" WILL OPPOSE and the sure as hell won't reroute traffic for the benefit of paxrail.

Shared track is an opperational disaster, and freight always takes priority over paxrail. For no other reason than modern freight trains physically can't fit on the sidings when another train needs the same track. That is combined with rail traffic control problems. Especially when running in both directions on the same track.

You either have to take the track by eminent domain or build new light-rail track. Both would be costly and controversial.

[Canadian Mind]

or just create parking spots for the PAXrail to stop and pull over into stations whenever freight rail is coming by.

[mr.x]

i don't know much about this corridor, but is there space to build a new set of tracks with overhead electrical wires next to the existing tracks? because that's probably the only way any rail line through that corridor will get through.

[Policy Wonk]

or just create parking spots for the PAXrail to stop and pull over into stations whenever freight rail is coming by.

That is what is already being done all across north america, and it just destroys the schedule, VIA Rail can be delayed for hours when they are ordered to the sidings.

If a commuter line isn’t reliable, people won’t use it.

Three long freight trains within a few miles of each other could leave the commuters in the sidings for hours.

[CC420]

I know this doesn't have anything to do with light rail. But, is there any chance of skytrain being extended along Fraser Highway from King George station to Langley City any time soon? I heard it will eventually be done since it will greatly improve skytrain service for people in the eastern fraser valley. That combined with a nice extensive light rail system as described above is much needed and would greatly improve transit service to where it should already be. Think about the numbers. 600,000 people live south of the fraser yet there is no light rail service or any B-line bus route. That is pure neglagence on the part of translink.

[Jared]

I know this doesn't have anything to do with light rail. But, is there any chance of skytrain being extended along Fraser Highway from King George station to Langley City any time soon? I heard it will eventually be done since it will greatly improve skytrain service for people in the eastern fraser valley. That combined with a nice extensive light rail system as described above is much needed and would greatly improve transit service to where it should already be. Think about the numbers. 600,000 people live south of the fraser yet there is no light rail service or any B-line bus route. That is pure neglagence on the part of translink.

There is not enough demand in most SoF areas for translink to run higher order services (due to poor city planning), so why would they bother, if they're just going to loose lots of money?

Anyways, SkyTrain to Langley would be beyond the useful range for someone commuting from end to end, and quite frankly it's capacity overkill for a long time to come. This proposed system, which decent connections to bus services at each station makes far more sense. Maybe it could eventually (long term) be extended downtown, it could act both as a Surrey-Vancouver express service with limited stops, and provide extra capacity once the expo line is overburdened.


BTW, Surrey has 4 Skytrain stations.

[The_Henry_Man]

really wish this would get built. we need more rail in the region. hopefully they choose bombardier talent dmu or emu trainsets, they're probably the best suited for this.

www.fahrgaeste.de/img/bahn/020515_bombardier.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/VT644_RB23.jpg

btw this train comes in 2,3, and 4 car configuration which can be coupled to form longer trains and can be diesel, diesel-electric or fully electric.

This is excellent. Finally some initiative. It sounds like the route will be run through the rail corridor going SE to Newton and then E to Cloverdale and beyond. They should definitely consider extending the route all the way to Abbotsford, either somehow tunneling a section so that the rail route can run through Fraser Hwy (through Aldergrove) to Abbotsford; or they can continue to follow through the railway track to Fort Langley area.

In terms of the train type, I think this one will suit the needs well (It should be commuter rail type). It doesn't have to be this many cars, but I think around 4-6 cars can be sufficient, and have overhead wires for electrical supply, and run at 15-20 min peak intervals. To be efficent, the ROW needs to be double tracked and electrified. Hopefully, we can also use this method for the current WCE to replace the double-decker train cars.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/Kawasaki_c751_eunos.jpg

Sorry the pic is too big, i'm not too sure how to resize that.

[SpongeG]

the thing that makes me shake my head is a rail service existed there until the 1950's!

can you imagine what that side of the fraser would be like had that rail service never been scrapped

[twoNeurons]

Rail service in the 50s was a lot different than today. People had more time back then and were more willing to use trains... they didn't have a car!

Back in the day, ONE interurban train was scheduled per day to go to Chilliwack.

Today, that would NEVER fly. They certainly didn't run every 15 minutes.

[SpongeG]

All aboard for commuter rail



Some local residents are pushing for commuter rail from Chilliwack to Vancouver, but the likelihood of getting such a thing is not in their favour.

When Lori Bowman and her partner moved from Langley to Chilliwack in June, they were pumped about the lower cost of living. The couple is close to retirement and were in the market for their dream home. Chilliwack was in their price range.

It was perfect, said Bowman, except for the lack of commuter options.

“We would love to be able to work and live in the same community as some groups are suggesting people try to do,” she said. “But this is not always possible.

“I was so disappointed to find out that there is absolutely no transportation options available for people living in Chilliwack.”

Bowman’s partner works in downtown Vancouver at an engineering firm. It’s not safe for him to commute long distances because of medical conditions. And to relocate his job, she said, would seriously deflate his income.

So every morning, Bowman drives him to Mission to catch the West Coast Express. They get up at 4 a.m., leave at 4:30 and arrive in Mission at 5:10. The train leaves the station at 5:27 and Bowman’s boyfriend arrives downtown at 6:40.

He starts work at 7 a.m.

“There is such a steady stream of cars going in the same direction at the same time,” she said. “I strongly believe that there would be enough riders to warrant this service, even if for only two trains a day.

“I feel very strongly that it really should be investigated further.”

Cost, ridership and location, however, are holding such a project back.

Chilliwack-Kent MLA Barry Penner – B.C.’s environment minister – has been investigating the idea since elected in ‘96. He’s talked to both provincial and federal transportation ministers about the feasibility of additional transportation options for the Chilliwack area. And he’s learned that there are a number of obstacles standing in the way.

The capital costs of refurbishing existing rail lines – like the ones operated by the old Interurban in the early to mid 1900s – or building new lines and acquiring land for those lines would likely be in the billions, said Penner.

“I am interested in finding additional transportation options, but I also know that there are issues around the population density in order to pay for such a project,” he said. “A lot of [commuter rails] that have already been set up, like the one in London, have much greater population densities than we do.”

Still, some residents are not satisfied.

Rollie Keith, past provincial NDP candidate and long-time commuter rail advocate, believes that if there is a will, there is a way.

“I support the twinning of the Port Mann Bridge, but the solution is not to just build more roads and bridges, we need to get out of our cars. We need alternatives,” he said.

“Of course there’s going to be a cost, but we need to invest in the future. We’ve got to be able to get around.”

Bowman has sent a number of letters to government officials and is now looking for community support. She is starting a petition, and people can contact her via email at www.chilliwack_commuter_rail@hotmail.com

http://www.theprogress.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=39&cat=23&id=796406&more=

http://web.bcnewsgroup.com/portals/uploads/chilliwack/.DIR288/communter_rail_proposal_12_14_061219.jpg

Lori Bowman says a commuter rail system in Chilliwack with service to Vancouver would be a great idea. JENNA HAUCK/ PROGRESS

[SpongeG]

Rail service in the 50s was a lot different than today. People had more time back then and were more willing to use trains... they didn't have a car!

Back in the day, ONE interurban train was scheduled per day to go to Chilliwack.

Today, that would NEVER fly. They certainly didn't run every 15 minutes.

well yah - but the line was in place and it would have been continually updated one thinks

of course hindsight is always 20/20

[CC420]

There is not enough demand in most SoF areas for translink to run higher order services (due to poor city planning), so why would they bother, if they're just going to loose lots of money?

Anyways, SkyTrain to Langley would be beyond the useful range for someone commuting from end to end, and quite frankly it's capacity overkill for a long time to come. This proposed system, which decent connections to bus services at each station makes far more sense. Maybe it could eventually (long term) be extended downtown, it could act both as a Surrey-Vancouver express service with limited stops, and provide extra capacity once the expo line is overburdened.


BTW, Surrey has 4 Skytrain stations.

I know the demand isn't there yet. But I could see the line being extended in 15-20 years. In fact, with the widening of Fraser Highway near Route 15, there are large concrete boxes spaced out which according to a contractor I worked with, stated were for future skytrain pillars.

I agree, what is needed now, in a bad way is turning the 502 into a B-line bus route. This will help translink determine future ridership levels and when the time is right to extend skytrain to Langley. A skytrain to Langley would open up service all the way to Abbotsford and allow for Translink to move into that city which badly needs much improved bus service. Abbotsford already has a number of Condos and if we are to encourage high density living throughout the Valley which is badly needed,this along with a rail line to Chilliwack would make this happen. If not, then people in the Valley which give money to Translink will continue to get frustrated and may even soon demand to pull out from an agency which continues to ignore the part of the region.

I also believe Whalley will successfully develope many, many highrises, espessially office, since Vancouver has and is largely ignoring this demand. Surrey, being pretty much in the centre of the region stands to benefit the most from office demand considering their low tax rates and willingness to bend over for developers. This will increase demand for skytrain to Langley, as many of the workers will undoubtetly be living farther and farther out in the suberbs. It would also be smart to build the line sooner, rather than later since the cost of such a line will only increase as time goes on.

BTW, I know Surrey has 4 stations since I live in view of King George and used to rely on it for service to work. Without Skytrain, and the 97 B-line, I would not have been able to get from Whalley, to Port Moody in one hour. I credit skytrain (the only thing translink has going for it) in allowing this to happen. I think many people in Langley and beyond would open up their arms to this wonderful service. Much more so than a light rail line which, don't get me wrong, I also do support. I just prefer the fastest of the bunch.

This has been my lack of transit in the Valley rant.:shrug:

[officedweller]

I also believe Whalley will successfully develope many, many highrises, espessially office, since Vancouver has and is largely ignoring this demand. Surrey, being pretty much in the centre of the region stands to benefit the most from office demand considering their low tax rates and willingness to bend over for developers. This will increase demand for skytrain to Langley, as many of the workers will undoubtetly be living farther and farther out in the suberbs. It would also be smart to build the line sooner, rather than later since the cost of such a line will only increase as time goes on.


I agree that a Skytrain extension to Langley would be mainly aimed at serving the burgeoning Surrey City Centre (i.e. a regional town centre with its own radial rapid transit system serving it) - with the added benefit of taking riders all the way to Downtown Vancouver. However, the talk in the papers, etc. is that the systems feeding the regional town centres will be LRT, not Skytrain, with Skytrain providing inter-city service. Surrey is planning for an at-grade LRT, there's the Evergreen Line, and with its single track terminus, I can't see the Canada Line extended any time soon (whereas I could see an LRT from the terminus across and down the Railway Ave ROW to Steveston).

[twoNeurons]

I agree OD. Skytrain could be extended easily to 152nd St. Question is would it be down 100th Ave, 96th, or Fraser Hwy (~90th)?

If you take a look at google maps, you see a LOT of infill that would need to happen before skytrain happened (family lives in Cloverdale, and I used to live in Whalley). This is especially so between Surrey and Langley. Between 168th and 184th, there is nothing.

However, given the lower capital to built LRT (especially through areas that aren't as built up and have wider streets) I can totally see it happening.
Skytrain would really have to go either down 104th or King George Hwy to hit population centres.

Both of those scenarios have their own set of difficulties. The skytrain station at King George should never have been pointed down the Fraser Highway at the mouth of a massive park.

[The_Henry_Man]

^^I think the Expo Line can still theoretically shift NE immediately after King George Station (through some green space gap according to Google Map), then turn east on 100th Ave, and finally n get to Guildford Mall by turning left to 152nd St. (Or somehow then can also extend the line to Fleetwood area as well?)

[CC420]

An extension down 104Ave is an interesting idea and could easily be done since there is nothing but grass where the transfer poit would be. However I think it is Surrey's intention to run LRT down that street all the way to Guilford. The same goes for King George. In fact I believe the plan is for an LRT from Guilford down 104 Ave through Surrey Central and down King George to possibly Newton Centre. So I wouldn't bet on skytrain down these two roads.

[twoNeurons]

Which sound a LOT more reasonable than skytrain, to tell you the truth.

[Nutterbug]

I think Skytrain should be extended to Newton. From there, BRT's can branch the passengers out southbound towards White Rock and eastbound towards Cloverdale/Langley. Preferably at a junction with the Southern Railway line, which can one day run a commuter rail line to Abbotsford/Chilliwack.

[officedweller]

From the Surrey Leader:

City rail revival could cost less, say backers

By Jeff Nagel
Black Press
Dec 27 2006


Consultants for the City of Surrey say a community light rail transit line could be launched here for a fraction of the cost estimated by TransLink.

The service, running from the Scott Road SkyTrain station to Cloverdale, would cost $110 million to $150 million in startup capital costs, according to a study by consultants UMA Engineering Ltd.

The work is being embraced by fans of a possible revival of the old interurban rail line, which linked Vancouver to Chilliwack up until the 1950s.

TransLink released its own study earlier this month, estimating a longer 27-kilometre line to downtown Langley would cost $360 million to $700 million, depending on whether heavy rail with fewer stations or light rail with more stations was used.

TransLink’s consultants flagged a long list of challenges that could inflate costs or kill the project. They concluded the whole line must be double tracked to keep passengers and freight separate and added an extra 30 per cent for contingencies.

“As long as you make the route from Scott Road only to Cloverdale you have contained the costs enormously,” said Surrey Board of Trade executive director Peter Holt, one of the proponents.

But a city analysis of both studies concludes pursuing the community rail project is risky and would cost the city $100,000 to hire a consultant to design the system, line up partners and lobby for funding.

Engineering general manager Paul Ham, in a report to council, says not only are the capital costs well beyond the city’s scope, subsidizing annual operating costs of $5 to $6 million would be a problem.

“While there will be some revenue from fares, this is likely to only cover 20 to 30 per cent of costs,” his report says. “As such, the viability of this project is a concern.”

Ham recommends council shelve the community rail idea – even though it could “potentially jump-start a transit rail system in Surrey” – because of the very high costs, the creation of expectations that may not be achievable and the diversion of money away from projects with better odds of success.

Instead, he says the city should continue to work with the Fraser Valley Heritage Rail Society as it tries to launch a small-scale tourism-oriented heritage rail operation on part of the old interurban route.

Heritage rail could gradually expand to cover the Cloverdale-Scott Road route, Ham said, and “in the more distant future” evolve into a community rail system.

Council on Monday referred the issue to its transportation committee and the heritage advisory commission.

Coun. Bob Bose, who chairs the transportation committee, still favours the community rail option, but says the city must approach it “cautiously” and be prepared to “walk away” if necessary.

“The $100,000 is completely do-able when you compare it to the costs of other programs,” Bose said. “Sometimes you have to stick your neck out a little bit.”

Advocates say the rail revival could also trigger high-density residential redevelopment near the route’s stations.

“I want the community rail because of the way it will strengthen and build and create a focus for redevelopment of the town centres,” Bose added. “It could have a terrific spinoff.”

Coun. Marvin Hunt also favours a passenger rail revival on the old rail corridor.

“Growth is going to continue to happen on the south Fraser,” he said. “So it makes sense that we get those kinds of connections going south of the Fraser.”

The city report says the project could tap grant money as a 2010 Olympic legacy project or as a Hydrogen Highway demonstration project if fuel cell technology is used.

The report notes the line wouldn’t connect to the Surrey City Centre, but would link Cloverdale, Newton, Kennedy and the Scott Road/Bridgeview areas.

[twoNeurons]

Scott Road is 4 minutes by train from Surrey City Centre.

There's been a lot of news recently about Fraser Valley Rail.

I'm not giving my hope up but...

[SpongeG]

what if they took away some of the evergreen's line and gave it to surry if its only going to be $150 million...

[mezzanine]

I really hope we get movement on this - i see a lot of good potential here, even if connecting to only cloverdale, and phasing in langley at a later date. There will be new TOD development at Newton - really, it is a town centre without a focus (the bus loop? the wave pool?), a reasonable connection to surrey city hall/municipal centre/RCMP offices by 64th ave, as well as to the Bell Centre. Sullivan neighbourhood is greatly densifying and cloverdale wants to bring in a connex and revitalize the main street strip.

[CC420]

:previous: Ya I would think Cloverdale of all communities would benefit the most out of this. That neighbourhood has seen a lot of developement over the years with few transit upgrades. The conngestion is getting really bad there and must be addressed. What better way than to bring rail back to cloverdale.

[officedweller]

INteresting link I found through the Transportation Forum on Amtrak Cascades.

Check out Appendix E at this link (big download). It discusses a study that would move the northern terminus for Cascades to a new terminal at Scott Road in Surrey.

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail/amtrakplan-docs/appendices.pdf

The full Amtrak Cascades long range plan website is here if you are interested:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail/AC_long_range_plan.cfm

[SpongeG]

that would suck for tourists - especially if they were just doing a day trip up to here

but there is only that one old rail crossing - and it can back train traffic up quite a bit

[officedweller]

The option is spurred by the jam-up at the Fraser River Bridge among other capacity issues. Amtrak wants to run up to 5 trains a day to Vancouver and there isn't the capacity.

Here's the neighbourhood plan for the Scott Road Station area - from the Cascades report:

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/5266/southwestminsterps4.jpg

[SpongeG]

ah - more trains is definately better than - there is only one evening train and its not very functional - cause it only goes to seattle and gets there failry late - it would be nice to get on a train here and be able to get all the way to portland or california without having to overnight in seattle

[officedweller]

And they think the catchment (headed to Seattle) from GVRD would still be good from Surrey.

[SpongeG]

yeah - its close to the skytrain so that would help

currently the train is more of a novelty thing than a viable travel option - i wonder if the plan does go through if they can get it up in time for the olympics

[Nutterbug]

The concern's probably not so much the traffic to Seattle as the traffic from. Locals already know how to take Skytrain, and may actually welcome a suburban location where it's easier/cheaper to park, whereas the Americans may be discouraged by having to transfer onto another mode of transport to get downtown.

They should keep Pacific Central and have another station in Blaine to serve the southern GVRD and northern Whatcom County traffic, with public transit extended to the Peace Arch border crossing to connect with it. (Extend the 321 route eight more bloody blocks south.)

[officedweller]

The Surrey alternative is more of a way for Washington DOT to achieve its goal of 5 trains a day despite inaction/inability by BC/Canada on rail corridor improvements on the BC side.

It also cites slow speeds because of the marshy condition on the route through Burnaby and possible constriction of the ROW from Skytrain columns (preventing double tracking).

[Nutterbug]

yeah - its close to the skytrain so that would help

currently the train is more of a novelty thing than a viable travel option - i wonder if the plan does go through if they can get it up in time for the olympics

Certainly a far preferable alternative to Greyhound, if you can fit it into your schedule.

[SpongeG]

yeah - my friends and i went to portland last summer and 2 of us drove down and the third was gonna meet us down there - he was weary of driving his brand new car - so we looked into the train and he would have had to stay overnight in seattle before he could meet us in porland - he ended up driving down and meeting us anyway

[twoNeurons]

They will be trains to Surrey and an Amtrack Bus Shuttle to Downtown Vancouver. This is a good thing. It will also be a lot faster (being that BC can't get their act in gear and double-track some areas) if you're getting off in Surrey. If they upgrade the tracks to Vancouver... the landscape changes.

Great for Surrey.

[Nutterbug]

Why take a bus shuttle instead of the Skytrain???

Maybe they should build a Skytrain guideway running right into the Amtrak station for special Skytrains timed with the Amtrak runs.

[twoNeurons]

Because it will be provided by Amtrak... and that way Amtrak provides the true terminus in Vancouver.

Imagine if you were to take a train to Seattle, but it dropped you off in Everett and gave you directions to the LRT. Not good business.

Skytrain isn't run by Amtrak.

Case in Point, you can book a ticket from Vancouver to San Francisco, and it will involve a bus from Vancouver to Seattle (As the night train doesn't sync with the Coast Starlight.)

If anyone's interested, check out page 6 of this PDF:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail/amtrakplan-docs/chapter3.pdf

The improvements between Bellingham and Vancouver are supposed to be:
Vancouver <---> Bellingham
today 2008* 2023
1:48 1:39 0:50

(original midpoint... but is now undefined due to funding)

Overall Trip Time:
Vancouver <---> Seattle
today 2008 2023
3:55 3:25 2:37

That goes to show you where the bottleneck is. BC. Overall improvement is supposed to Shave 1:18 off the time from Seattle to Vancouver. Bellingham to Vancouver is 0:58 of that... or 75% of the time savings.

Imagine getting to Downtown Seattle from Downtown Vancouver in 2:37.

A CAR takes 2:34 according to Google Maps(with no Traffic and no border wait...).

If you could pre-check customs at the Vancouver terminus it would be MUCH faster than driving.

[Nutterbug]

Because it will be provided by Amtrak... and that way Amtrak provides the true terminus in Vancouver.

Imagine if you were to take a train to Seattle, but it dropped you off in Everett and gave you directions to the LRT. Not good business.

Skytrain isn't run by Amtrak.

As such, they should build a Skytrain boarding platform within the new Surrey station to facilitate transfer with little difficulty. They are providing such a service for air passengers with the RAV Line running right into the airport terminal, so why not do the same for train passengers?

I assume this new station will be a shared facility with VIA and intercity buses.

[twoNeurons]

After reading this (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail/amtrakplan-docs/chapter5.pdf) I have realized that the actual terminus would be Scott Road and they would direct people to Skytrain. a bit disappointing... but given the costs on that report of ~1.1 billion I can see why the alternative of a SCott Road station makes sense (This reduces the cost by $640M) to ~$500M including the station.

Check out pages 26,27,29-34


What key factors will influence the location of the Amtrak
Cascades’ northern terminus?
As indicated in Exhibit 5-14, a series of infrastructure improvements must be
completed before a third round trip between Seattle and Vancouver, BC is
possible. In this plan, it is assumed that these capital projects will be completed by Amtrak Cascades mid-point service, the most expensive of
which is a new crossing of the Fraser River between Surrey and New
Westminster. The New Westminster Rail Bridge, a swing-span structure
constructed in 1904, is a major choke point for a number of freight and
passenger rail operators in the greater Vancouver area. Canadian officials are
currently studying bridge replacement options, but a funding plan for a new
structure has not yet been developed. Unless and until this bridge is replaced
or substantially upgraded, it will not be possible to add any more Amtrak
Cascades service between Seattle and Pacific Central Station in Vancouver,
BC beyond two daily round trips.

In 2010, Vancouver/Whistler, BC will be hosting the Winter Olympics. This
major international event is expected to draw hundreds of thousands of
visitors to the Vancouver, BC area. If Amtrak Cascades trains are to play a
role as a transportation provider before, during, and after the 2010 Olympic
Games, regional, provincial, and Canadian federal transportation officials will
need to decide if funding the projects necessary for additional Amtrak
Cascades service is a priority for the region, and if these projects will have a
legacy of public benefits after the Olympic Games. These officials will also
have to determine if the current station location is the best place for intercity
rail travelers—when placed within the context of the region’s multi-modal
transportation plan developed for the 2010 Olympic Games and beyond.

The final key factor that will influence the location of the Amtrak Cascades’
northern terminus in Vancouver, BC is customer preference. While a Scott
Road Station could eliminate the need for major rail line improvements north
of the Fraser River, Amtrak and WSDOT have only limited data to assess the
commercial impacts of a northern terminus at Scott Road, rather than
downtown Vancouver. BC. WSDOT, Amtrak, and Canadian officials will
need to gather this customer data and include it in a full benefit/cost
assessment before deciding if relocating the Amtrak Cascades’ northern
terminus from Pacific Central Station to Scott Road is the best course of
action.

[Lee_Haber8]

After reading this (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/rail/amtrakplan-docs/chapter5.pdf) I have realized that the actual terminus would be Scott Road and they would direct people to Skytrain. a bit disappointing... but given the costs on that report of ~1.1 billion I can see why the alternative of a SCott Road station makes sense (This reduces the cost by $640M) to ~$500M including the station.

Check out pages 26,27,29-34

Probably an adequate temporary solution until they can pay for improved links into Vancouver

[officedweller]

The WSDOT Report also says that having 2 terminals north of the border is not feasible because of border customs staffing requirements and delays. So I'm not sure (doubt) that Scott Road would be built if it is only going to be temporary.

[SpongeG]

i don't think the train goes into downtown San Francisco either

we looked at catching it and the stop is on the east side of the bay i think and than you get a bus to complete the trip to downtown san francisco

[SpongeG]

Train stops short of the Peninsula

By Brooke Larsen
Staff Reporter
Jan 26 2007

Peninsula residents will be waiting awhile for their train to arrive, since TransLink’s long-term plans don’t include rail to South Surrey.

TransLink this month released its South of Fraser plan, which could link Central Surrey, Guildford and Surrey City Hall by rail by 2031, but doesn’t include South Surrey.

Instead, the transit authority is planning a dedicated bus lane to the Peninsula along King George Highway. The plan, still in the early stages, goes to the TransLink board later this year.

Surrey Coun. Marvin Hunt, a veteran director on the TransLink board, said the plan snubs the Peninsula.

“It doesn’t make sense that South Surrey, with all its growth, won’t have access to rapid transit,” Hunt said, noting TransLink is building a light rail line to Coquitlam.

Hunt said TransLink has skimped on service to South Surrey in the past because the city has allowed more population growth than permitted in the Livable Region Strategic Plan, a rule book guiding growth in the Lower Mainland.

“We don’t follow the funny maps that say all growth must stop at Highway 10,” he said.

Surrey Coun. Barbara Steele agreed the Peninsula would benefit from light rail.

“Overall, the (TransLink) plan has merit – I just don’t think it’s soon enough,” she added.

But White Rock Coun. Matt Todd said bringing rail to the Pensinsula isn’t feasible, especially given TransLink’s money troubles.

“Somebody’s got to pay for it. Look at the projects we’re doing now – the Evergreen Line and Canada Line. The costs of those just about broke TransLink,” Todd said.

He said Surrey should take some of the blame because of the way the city has planned development.

“The classic suburban sprawl does not have the densities that support rapid transit,” Todd said.

TransLink planner Graeme Masterton said rail from central to South Surrey won’t work because Peninsula commuters travel to Langley, Vancouver and Richmond.

“Rail works when everyone’s going the same direction,” he said.

Installing light rail to South Surrey would cost roughly $50 million per kilometre, he said.

TransLink’s 25-year plan, based on a survey of 1,500 people, found that 85 per cent of daily travel stayed south of the Fraser River.

TransLink is working with Bosa Properties to plan a large bus loop at Semiahmoo Town Centre. Bosa bought Semiahmoo Shopping Centre in 2002 and plans to turn it into an urban village.

“As a regional facility it would be a fairly good size,” Masterton said.

“The intent is to make sure it’s big enough for the long term, not just the short term.”

http://www.peacearchnews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=44&cat=23&id=820267&more=

[officedweller]

http://www.translink.bc.ca/files/pdf/plan_proj/SOFA_Handout_hi.pdf

[CC420]

Im actually very pleased at the report. I see if they do implement Skytrain any more furthur it will be down King George. I would be pleased though, if they had two or three B-lines by 2011-2015. The first should either be converting the 502 down Fraser Hwy or the White Rock to Surrey Central route along King George. Also a B-line up and down 104 between Guilford centre and Central city would in my opinion greatly inhance developement along this depressing corridor.

[SunCoaster]

I was in Willowbrook Mall in Langley a few days ago and stopped by the realestate sales kiosk located in the mall ... I looked at what a person could buy for a fairly reasonable buck (well by Lower Mainland standards anyhow) as in $250,000 to $400,000 range and there's plenty of 'affordable' homes, townhomes and condos in that price range in the Langley area. Now if the LRT where to come to Langley I think these prices would shoot up dramatically in a relatively short period of time ... so, Lotusland forumers you heard it here first .... invest NOW while there's still plenty of bargains to be found in property from say 168 Street in Cloverdale to 264 Street in Aldergrove .... :tup:

[officedweller]

...without the earthquake risk of Richmond.

[officedweller]

From the Burnaby Newsleader:

FraserPort considers creating new island in Fraser

http://web.bcnewsgroup.com/portals/uploads/burnaby/.DIR288/BE0203_Sapperton_Island_1B_070203.jpg
An satellite image of the Fraser River shows Sapperton Bar, a 1.8 km swath of sedminent that some are considering turning into an island for use by industry.


By Jeff Nagel
Black Press
Feb 02 2007

That old adage about land – they’re not making any more of it – may not apply when it comes to the hunt for scarce waterfront property in Greater Vancouver.

Port officials are now looking at creating a new island in the middle of the Fraser River by diking a muddy bank that has formed in recent decades and turning it into usable industrial land.

The potential site is Sapperton Bar, a 1.8-kilometre swath of sediment that has been deposited in the river off New Westminster, between the Pattullo and Port Mann bridges.

“It’s an emerging island,” says Tom Corsie, the vice-president of real estate development for the Fraser River Port Authority. “We wonder if it could be filled and become an industrial island.”

The concept is at an exploratory stage, but the port authority has talked to consultants about possible access routes.

Unlike natural river islets, the bar has formed from human efforts to manipulate the river by installing a series of in-river structures over the last century.

One of them – the Sapperton V-Dike – is a triangular outcrop that juts from the river just below the Port Mann and was built in 1936 to redirect currents and stop erosion of the New Westminster shore.

But over the decades it has caused sediment to form downstream in Sapperton Channel, to the extent that some trees now survive atop the bar and log booms anchored around it have been pushed back in a widening perimeter.

If Sapperton Bar is diked and turned into Sapperton Island – which Corsie says is geotechnically feasible – it won’t be the first time the port has looked to the water for land.

Annacis Island used to be three smaller islands in the river before they were filled in and developed.

The port authority’s automobile import terminal at the north end of Annacis sits on 120 acres of land reclaimed from the river.

Various other industrial sites along the river have been reclaimed over the years as well, he says, along with farmland in Delta and even the new Vancouver convention centre that will rise on pilings in Burrard Inlet.

The new look at taking land from the river is being driven by ever-escalating real estate prices.

The port authority has been on a hunt for suitable sites for short-sea shipping terminals as part of a strategy to use the river as a goods-carrying artery and take trucking pressure off local roads.

But the port is being outbid by condo developers and thwarted by city councils, which often favour more attractive and lucrative office or residential towers over heavy industry.

Another chance for a major industrial site on the river died last summer when the Agricultural Land Commission rejected a developer’s plan to industrialize Barnston Island.

With a shortage of industrial land intensifying, the port authority is effectively being pushed off the land and into the river.

“Land is becoming unbelievably expensive,” Corsie said.

He estimates about 300 acres could be reclaimed from Sapperton Channel.

Building the new island would take much study and need the blessing of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Fish and wildlife habitat would have to be measured and any losses mitigated.

Hydraulic studies would also be needed.

Diking off a large new area to keep the water out would push up the high water line on other dikes along the river – potentially increasing the threat of a flood.

Another big question is how the island would be accessed.

A simple bridge from the New Westminster shore is one option.

But Corsie sees a much bigger possibility.

He thinks the island could support a new bridge replacing both the 71-year-old Pattullo Bridge and the 103-year-old New Westminster rail bridge, which is a major bottleneck for goods movement.

“If this could support a replacement for the Pattullo Bridge, with access this island would be much more valuable to short-sea shipping,” he said.

The link could also create a needed connection between the planned North and South Fraser Perimeter Roads, he said.

“It’s an option we would like TransLink to study,” Corsie said.

The port authority won’t likely spend more money on the idea until it gets a clearer sign of interest from TransLink and the province.

TransLink, which owns and operates the Pattullo, has formed a steering committee with the port authority and neighbouring municipalities to study options for the bridge’s eventual replacement.

“We are aware of the concept,” TransLink spokesman Ken Hardie said of the Sapperton Bar site. “To us it looks interesting.”

New Westminster Mayor Wayne Wright said he has seen the island close up. Last year he took a boat tour with the port authority and it was pointed our as a potential site for new vehicle storage. When the safety of the Pattullo Bridge was brought up, someone had the idea of using it to also support a new bridge.

It’s too early to take a position on the island supporting a new bridge, he said.

“The [traffic] alignment will probably change but no one has gone that far to look into yet,” said Wright. “We just don’t have enough information on it yet.”

– Michael McQuillan contributed to this report.

[mr.x]

^ no, not another island....think of the fish!

it would make more sense if all three ports in the region became one and built a superport at Deltaport.

[SpongeG]

speaking of the river and fish - is that whale still stuck in the fraser? he was apaprently seen a few times as far up as the skytrain bridge

[cornholio]

My only problem with that is that I often go fishing for stergon (obviously catch and release) at the new dock at Saperton park and to tell you the truth the area around the islands are full of them. Infact its one of the best places to catch them anywhere in the lower fraser river and your guranteed a catch or two every evening/night. Normaly i wouldent give this secret out but i doubt any of you realy care about fishing.
My point being that obviously those isalnds suport fish, and sturgen at that and if they link sturgen and those islands together then given the curent situation with sturgen(which by the way in my opinion is bs) those islands will remain the way they are. Not to mention that i have one several ocasion gone on shore of several of the islands in the fraser and they all are huge nesting sites for tons of birds(and i mean tons, you literarly get chased of the islands at times by packs of crazy gees, etc.), especialy canadian gees because of the lack of predators since canadian gees nest on the ground.

Personaly i would love to leave the islands, and the rest of the uninhabited islands in the fraser alone since they are considerably more important to the econsystem then any of these tiny conservation parks scaterd around the gvrd.

[CC420]

Ya developing the island is both good and bad. The region needs more industrial but at what expense? I say leave the island the way it is, especially considering the fact it may be unusable anyways. Instead maybe it's time to redevelop some existing industrial land to be more efficient and make better use of the land. Anybody ever noticed the poor and inadequate planning of many industrial zones. I'll spare Annacis Island and Port kells from this bias but many of these industrial lands could be made to support much more industry. Consider the Scott Road area. I say DO NOT build a stadium there along with the village concept but rather leave it mostly industrial and develop it much more as there are tons of empty lots in the lowlands that is scott road station.

[cornholio]

^Well industrial lands function a bit diferently and its important for most industries to have open space for work and expansion. Most of these industrial areas have infact little to no extra, unused or underused space. Where I work for example 75% of the land that the company ocupies is just a parking lot for trailers, trucks, etc. and infact its packed to the point that eventualy the company will have to move, mostlikely maple ridge/pitt meadows or surrey/langley.

[officedweller]

Looks like Surrey will initiate a heritage railway like Vancouver - then maybe it'll be upgraded....

Heritage Rail Project is ready to hit the tracks
SURREY: Inter-urban rail line to launch

Brian Lewis, The Province
Published: Sunday, February 11, 2007

Having a one-track mind is proving to be a valuable asset for the small, dedicated group of enthusiasts in the non-profit Fraser Valley Heritage Railway Society.

It's proving, for example, that it takes more than a thumbs-down from the bureaucrats at TransLink to derail the dream these rail buffs have of establishing a new high-tech community rail system on parts of the long-abandoned inter-urban rail line between Vancouver and Chilliwack.

In fact, at its regular meeting tomorrow, Surrey city council will help push that dream further down the track to reality.

That's when Surrey officially launches its Heritage Rail Project, through which it hopes to run several restored inter-urban cars along part of the inter-urban line.

"A heritage rail project like this is clearly of tourist interest," says

Coun. Bob Bose, who heads Surrey council's transportation committee.

"But the underlying objective here is to pursue the idea of a community rail system that would run at higher frequency to serve communities along the existing inter-urban route such as Cloverdale, Sullivan Heights, Newton and Kennedy Heights," he adds.

Bose also says they're all town centres that Surrey council wants to support for further urban development.

In the longer term, project supporters envisage this light-rail service extending through Langley and Abbotsford to Chilliwack.

"We're also looking at this as a demonstration of hydrogen-powered fuel-cell systems," Bose says, "and we're in a very unique position to have it in place for the 2010 Olympics."

Powertech, B.C. Hydro's research subsidiary, would provide the hydrogen fuelling from its location beside the inter-urban line near 88th Avenue in Surrey.

At tomorrow's meeting, Surrey council is expected to endorse a staff report that recommends the city undertake the Heritage Rail Project as a first step toward establishing community rail. The hiring of two heritage project consultants by Surrey, at a cost of $100,000, is also being authorized.

"Staff holds the view that it is more realistic to initiate a smaller scale Heritage Rail service on a section of the inter-urban line, then gradually expand this service on to the full length from Cloverdale to Scott Road," the staff report says.

The report adds that an earlier feasibility study by TransLink called for much more elaborate and expensive commuter rail systems on the inter-urban line than backers of the lighter and less expensive community rail system say is necessary.

Preliminary capital costs for community rail in Surrey are estimated at $110 to $150 million; TransLink estimates its costs for an inter-urban in the $360-to-$700-million range, depending on the technology adopted.

The staff paper also notes a TransLink concern that any rail service on the inter-urban line would divert riders away from TransLink's proposed bus rapid transit/light rail options for King George Highway and 104 Avenue.

"They're not interested in community rail, so we've decided to put some money up to take advantage of an opportunity that TransLink has no appetite for," Bose says.

However, it's not a project that Surrey can finance by itself, so it's hoped that this pilot project will draw potential third-party partners, he explains.

Adds Peter Holt, executive director of the Surrey Board of Trade and a spokesman for the railway society: "This project will alert the people of Surrey to the fact that we have a wonderful diamond in the rough here with the inter-urban rail line."

All it needs now is a little polishing. blewis@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Province 2007

[SpongeG]

nice

[SFUVancouver]

It came to me that Vancouver and Surrey are both being very astute by pursuing their respective streetcar and light rail projects under the auspices of "historic" or "demonstration" projects. This allows the lines to get up and running with refurbished rail cars, build up some tourism and local ridership, and then when the antique cars are unable to meet demand the city buys a new low floor streetcar as a supplement. One day Translink wakes up to realise that Surrey and Vancouver are operating transit systems and is forced by law to shut them down or integrate them into Translink. I think the former would be the last nail in the coffin for Translink governance system as it is now, especially if the Vancouver and Surrey lines have solid ridership numbers and widespread public buy-in.

[officedweller]

I'm not actually sure how good the numbers are for the Vancouver streetcar. i.e. Translink has competing priorities and the Vancouver streetcar will have destinations that can be reached faster by other transit routes/lines. Personally, I think the streetcar will be a feeder to/from the Skytrain and Canada Line. Between Gastown and Waterfront and between Olympic Village and Granville Island, it may be busy, but no one will ride all the way around the creek to Waterfront when they can transfer at the Olympic Village Station or Main Street Station (assuming fare integration).

[SpongeG]

sometimes though its just nicer to stay on what you are and just get to the end instead of getting off and wating and all that

i know sometimes i would just stay on the bus and go the long way instead of getting off with the crowd and transferring to the train

[twoNeurons]

Which is probably why many at Lougheed who are going downtown, go east to go west... so they don't need to transfer.

[SpongeG]

Rail dream is on track

Joseph Ruttle

Now Contributor

We're not exactly talking the bullet train to Tokyo.

But the dream of the Fraser Valley Heritage Railway Society is to one day offer a funky, functional community rail option along an existing route from Cloverdale to Scott Road SkyTrain station and on to Brownsville Bar.

They insist the dream can be realized - in baby steps at first.

The project got a push forward late last month when the City of Surrey granted up to $100,000 toward a project manager to work on the plan and continue to develop partnerships. The idea is to get a trial run, geared toward heritage tourism, running from Cloverdale to Sullivan Station (152nd Street at 64th Avenue) within the next couple of years.

Society secretary Allen Aubert said this week Peter Holt has been retained for that managerial role. (Holt, who just ended his tenure as executive director of the Surrey Board of Trade, has been involved with the project for several years.)

The idea also got a financial boost from an unexpected source this week when the Surrey Foundation handed over $14,000 from proceeds of a class-action lawsuit in Ontario. The settlement money was specifically earmarked for projects related to community transportation.

The society has spent the past 18 months restoring a heritage electric train purchased from a rail museum in California, and is on the brink of an announcement about a second rail car.

They say the Duke of Connaught, now in Oregon, will hopefully be repatriated to Canada soon as the last remaining car of its type anywhere. There were, at one time, some 80 such cars operating on an electric rail system in the Fraser Valley, moving people and goods from Chilliwack to the coast. When the overhead-wire-powered system was decommissioned in the late 1950s, however, most of those cars were scrapped or burned.

Those that did survive, such as the society's BCER Interurban 1225, require extensive rehabilitation. That includes replacing all the structural uprights and windows, recasting brass fittings and having unique items like the rattan seats remade from scratch.

It's all quite costly, but much of that expense is being underwritten with labour by society volunteers. In recent weeks they've made custom oak structural supports to replace the rotted originals, and are getting set to work on windows, doors and other parts of the car. The mechanical base is still sound, and in fact the train was still operating at the museum when it was purchased in 2005.

The heritage tourism trip would also be run by volunteers, and then only in summer - but the society feels it can demonstrate how community rail would work on a longer route and with a full fleet.

"This would be the only (train) operating on its original track," points out Aubert. "The city is keen to show people that the trains can be used as inter-community shuttles."

Because the wires are long gone, the society plans to retrofit a baggage car with hydrogen-powered cells to make the passenger car go. Because the province of B.C. is promoting the idea of a "hydrogen highway," that effort could see support from higher levels of government.

"It's absolutely environmentally-friendly (technology)," says Aubert.

Holt says there has been some doubtful information circulated about costs after studies by TransLink - but he questions the notion the rail route would be prohibitively expensive to operate.

He points out TransLink's $600-million estimate included the assumption the trains would require two dedicated tracks. He says the heritage cars won't require more than a basic upgrade of the existing freight rail bed.

Holt says a more recent study shows community rail can be accomplished along the whole 20-kilometre route for about $105 million - or just $5 million a kilometre. That compares with an average cost for North American light-rail transit systems of $35 million per kilometre, and isn't much higher than the per-kilometre cost of TransLink's RAV line.

Holt says the key issues going forward are getting the co-operation of BC Hydro, which owns the line, and Southern Railway, the Washington-based rail group that continues to run a limited freight service along the planned route.

Then, of course, there's the money. The city knows it doesn't have the resources to go it alone, but is supportive of using the heritage service as a jumpstart to full-scale community rail.

"The heritage part of it, (Mayor Dianne Watts) recognizes, is a precursor," notes Holt. "It will alert people that the line is there.

"It will get people thinking, 'So I can get on a train in Cloverdale, and it connects with Scott Road SkyTrain_?'"

Holt says that dream of community rail isn't far-fetched, and a heritage run also isn't far off if community and government support is there.

"We can get the first train on the track

probably by the end of 2008," he says, with a trial run in operation by the summer of 2009.

published on 03/03/2007

http://www.thenownewspaper.com/issues07/031107/features.html

[The_Henry_Man]

http://www.thenownewspaper.com/issues07/031107/features.html

Good article!! That's a good start!!

But I hope this will eventually develop into some sort of commuter rail service (double-tracked) similar to the WCE. The Fraser Valley region definitely needs fast and efficient rapid transit system. If it's anything similar to the Evergreen Line or any other surface-based streetcar looking type, it's not gonna cut it, because no one will take public transit if the system is not efficient and fast enough (should be without any interruptions from the regular traffic)

[twoNeurons]

Good article!! That's a good start!!

But I hope this will eventually develop into some sort of commuter rail service (double-tracked) similar to the WCE. The Fraser Valley region definitely needs fast and efficient rapid transit system. If it's anything similar to the Evergreen Line or any other surface-based streetcar looking type, it's not gonna cut it, because no one will take public transit if the system is not efficient and fast enough (should be without any interruptions from the regular traffic)

Looks like they're going for federal "Green" funding as well... using hydrogen to power the train.

This will be really awesome if it actually gets off the ground... I see more potential here than the interurban along false creek that currently runs.