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SpongeG
12-17-2006, 10:16 PM
Long lines at bus stops and crowded Sky Train platforms have been familiar rush-hour sights to Vancouver commuters for some time. But an increasing number of transit riders say lineups are getting longer and waits are getting lengthier as the city’s transportation system fails to keep up with demand.

Last last month, many riders’ stress boiled over when snowstorms resulted in severely overcrowded buses and SkyTrain cars, many of which were so full that they bypassed dozen of angry passengers who were left waiting in the cold.

While the winter weather was an anomaly, Vancouver transit riders say the situation was indicative of a bigger problem within the city’s public transportation system. The province currently has TransLink (the region’s transportation authority) under review, and Vancouver’s transit officials and some advocates say it’s time to increase funding for public transportation before the problem gets worse.

“We’re really under-serviced,” says Vancouver city councillor and TransLink board member Suzanne Anton. “We need a lot more buses on our bus routes and we really need rapid transit along Broadway – that’s critical in terms of transit planning.”

If the long lines and overcrowding aren’t enough evidence that TransLink can’t keep up with rider demand, its current fleet of buses and SkyTrain cars numbers far below its own projections. In 2002, TransLink said it would need to expand to 1,640 buses by 2005; due to funding problems, however, its current fleet is less than 1,300, with roughly 400 of those being smaller community shuttles. TransLink is adding an additional 34 SkyTrain cars to the crowded Expo Line, but they won’t arrive until 2009.

A 2005 report by TransLink said that ridership had grown by more than 20 per cent during the three previous years, but the system’s fleet had only grown by 10 per cent. Between Commercial and Main, transit is operating at 99 per cent capacity during peak hours, leaving many to wait on SkyTrain platforms and at bus stops.

According to TransLink officials, the number of buses running on Broadway is already at full capacity, and adding any more would only increase congestion and delays. While Anton says TransLink needs to expand the Millennium Line further West and bring in a streetcar service downtown, the city’s top priority now is to build a rapid-transit line along the East-West Broadway corridor.

But when and how TransLink will ever be able to afford that remains a mystery. After approving the $1.9 billion Canada Line in 2004, TransLink’s next priority is the $970 million Evergreen rapid-transit line to Coquitlam. However, TransLink is still $400 million short of being able to start building that project, with no funding sources in sight. With only 12 per cent of Vancouver commuters using public transportation, compared to over 20 per cent in Toronto and Montreal, public-transit advocates say it’s time for the provincial and federal governments to step in and start filling the funding gaps.

“The demand is there, it’s just we don’t have the supply; and the reason for that is the historical lack of funding from senior governments,” says Deming Smith, manager of policy and communications with Better Environment Sound Transportation (BEST), a Vancouver-based non-profit organization.

TransLink’s total revenue in 2005 was $818 million, with its funding coming from three main sources: transit fares, fuel taxes and property taxes. Having determined that there is no political will to raise property taxes or fares again, TransLink is now pushing the provincial and federal government to give them a bigger share of the $500 million in gas taxes that leave the region every year. Two years ago, the federal government did give back $390 million dollars in gas tax to TransLink, but TransLink officials say they need a steady stream of revenue.

“We’ve been absolutely delighted that the federal government stepped forward and decided to share gas tax revenue with us,” says TransLink spokesperson Ken Hardie, “but we need to see them get to the next level and turn that into an ongoing stream of revenue, because then you can use it to plan and you can use it to fund the long term payments... and infrastructure.”

Securing additional funding could prove difficult, though, since TransLink may soon be subject to a radical makeover. Earlier this year, the province’s Minister of Transportation, Kevin Falcon, initiated a governance review of the TransLink board that could change its structure from being run by regional councillors and mayors to provincially appointed officials. Falcon called the TransLink board “dysfunctional” after directors came close to blocking approval of the Canada Line. A spokesperson for the Minister said Falcon would not comment on TransLink’s future until the review is finished, which was originally due back this fall. In October, TransLink directors also decided to put all future projects on hold until the review was finished.

While the TransLink board fights to remain intact, some transit activists feel the board has been the maker of its own demise by putting too much emphasis on rapid transit. TransLink predicts that the Canada Line, which will connect downtown Vancouver with Richmond by 2009, will service 100,000 riders a day. But the Bus Riders Union says the Canada Line will do nothing to alleviate growing East-West congestion, and it has now eaten up all of TransLink’s revenues. Instead, the Union insists that the money should be going into buses. According to TransLink statistics, there have been 233.4 million boardings on public transportation from January to October of this year, with 73 per cent of those trips being on buses.

“The bus system is the backbone of the transit system and it is bankrupt,” says Beth Grayer, an organizer with the Bus Riders Union. “So that’s why we see the long waits, the full buses passing people by, and the poor service in suburban areas.”

The buses TransLink has purchased have also been fraught with the problems. TransLink bought 228 new trolley buses to replace its old trolley fleet, but the ones that have begun to arrive have fewer seats on them and cannot accommodate front-mounted bicycles at night because they block the headlights.

http://www.westender.com/

murman
12-18-2006, 05:16 PM
The buses TransLink has purchased have also been fraught with the problems. TransLink bought 228 new trolley buses to replace its old trolley fleet, but the ones that have begun to arrive have fewer seats on them and cannot accommodate front-mounted bicycles at night because they block the headlights.

Again, I'll ask the question: "And what brain-addled company built these buses? Wouldn't be from some yesterday-town from MB, would it?"

Biff
12-18-2006, 07:31 PM
Again, I'll ask the question: "And what brain-addled company built these buses? Wouldn't be from some yesterday-town from MB, would it?"

If you are refering to New Flyer in Winnipeg they build buses in any and many different size configurations and sell to city's bigger than yours. Our buses have front mounted bike racks and we don't have any problems. Maybe you need to ask the question "what brain-addled" dumb ass city can't figure out what size buses to order. If they are even New Flyer buses.


Ass

drew
12-18-2006, 07:58 PM
Vancouver has New Flyer buses. So does Calgary, Halifax, Winnipeg, etc. etc.

New Flyer buses are top notch in terms of city buses. They gained a great reputation in the past because they were able to get 20 years constant use out of a bus in the climatic extremes of Winnipeg.

If there is a better transit bus built in Canada, (the purchase of said bus keeping the money and jobs here) I'd like to know...

bc2mb
12-18-2006, 08:09 PM
Again, I'll ask the question: "And what brain-addled company built these buses? Wouldn't be from some yesterday-town from MB, would it?"

yesterday town? touching. too bad you're too chicken shit to put down where you actually live, but lemme guess .. CALGARY!

freeweed
12-18-2006, 08:30 PM
yesterday town? touching. too bad you're too chicken shit to put down where you actually live, but lemme guess .. CALGARY!

Winnipeg's obsession with Calgary continues...

Notice his account says "100' above sea level". Unless he's lying, he either doesn't live in Calgary, or he lives in one hell of a deep mineshaft somewhere. :haha:

drew
12-18-2006, 09:36 PM
Winnipeg's obsession with Calgary continues...


Well in all fairness, it was Murman's dig at Winnipeg that generated the responses - and he does an awful lot of posting in the Calgary forum...

Perhaps he is an Calgary expat living in Vancouver.

murman
12-18-2006, 10:18 PM
Notice his account says "100' above sea level". Unless he's lying, he either doesn't live in Calgary, or he lives in one hell of a deep mineshaft somewhere. :haha:

The latter wouldn't make me a troll, would it? :banana:

murman
12-18-2006, 10:19 PM
Well in all fairness, it was Murman's dig at Winnipeg that generated the responses - and he does an awful lot of posting in the Calgary forum...

Perhaps he is an Calgary expat living in Vancouver.

Close, a Western Canadian that spent ten years of exile in Calgary.

clooless
12-20-2006, 04:43 AM
Getting back to the subject at hand, the old Flyer trolleys, well, they flew. Lots of seats but obviously not friendly to those in wheelchairs or with mobility difficulties. :(

Has anyone ridden in one of the new trolleys? How bad is the seat situation? I looked for a picture on the web and came up with nothing. I am heading back to Vancouver for Christmas, so I hope I get a chance to ride one of the new trolleys.

Jared
12-20-2006, 06:53 AM
I got my first ride on a new trolley on Sunday (well, second ride actually, but I was completely wasted the first time, so I dont remember anything :D). Anyways, they feel somewhat smaller; and you really notice the lack of seating in the front half of the bus, before the step up at the back. I prefer the old ones to be honest, but I suppose wheelchair access and the (semi useful) bike racks are a plus.

djp
12-20-2006, 08:18 AM
Of course Translink can't keep up with demand -- they're too busy supporting the government's $3 billion dollar Gateway Project, promoting suburban sprawl and ineffective solutions to congestion. Translink doesn't actually care about transportation within the city, only the suburbs.

This is the same reasoning that has led Translink to prioritize the suburban "Evergreen Line" ahead of rapid transit down Broadway. Translink caters to the outlying communities and ignores the needs of the city centre whenever possible.

SpongeG
12-20-2006, 08:25 AM
suburban bus service sucks too - look at the new maple ridge to braid station route that just started on monday - it takes an hour! an hour! to do the route

but it beats before i guess - people from there had to catch a bus to coquitlam centre transfer to a different bus and than bus it to braid or lougheed

mr.x
12-20-2006, 08:47 AM
Of course Translink can't keep up with demand -- they're too busy supporting the government's $3 billion dollar Gateway Project, promoting suburban sprawl and ineffective solutions to congestion. Translink doesn't actually care about transportation within the city, only the suburbs.

This is the same reasoning that has led Translink to prioritize the suburban "Evergreen Line" ahead of rapid transit down Broadway. Translink caters to the outlying communities and ignores the needs of the city centre whenever possible.

It's actually the other way around.

clooless
12-20-2006, 10:54 AM
Of course Translink can't keep up with demand -- they're too busy supporting the government's $3 billion dollar Gateway Project, promoting suburban sprawl and ineffective solutions to congestion. Translink doesn't actually care about transportation within the city, only the suburbs.

This is the same reasoning that has led Translink to prioritize the suburban "Evergreen Line" ahead of rapid transit down Broadway. Translink caters to the outlying communities and ignores the needs of the city centre whenever possible.

I think if you look at the Gateway plan with an open mind you would see that a good portion of the program is intended to help move commercial traffic, not necessarily suburban commuters. The GVRD is also dealing in some places with 1960s infrastructure and as a result there is currently an infrastructure deficit. You are living in a fantasy world if you think roadway infrastructure should remain static while the population balloons. I agree that much should have been done to cut suburban sprawl, but the reality is people live in the Valley and work in the city because that is where the affordable homes are. Densification of existing city centres is the ideal solution, but few people can afford housing costs in the city. That is a huge, huge stumbling block to getting people out of the Valley, back into the city, out of their cars and into transit. It also doesn't help when buses on suburban routes are cannibalized to provide buses for areas like Vancouver and Burnaby and suburban bus service suffers, so I think you have the logic reversed there.

Regardless, I think we can both agree that transportation in the GVRD is a right mess, unless you live in Vancouver proper. Even then, buses on routes like Broadway and Victoria are packed to the gills and pass people waiting at bus stops all the time.

twoNeurons
12-21-2006, 10:15 PM
Translink deals with the entire region. It is for this reason that translink must put the Evergreen line on the map, or rish the TRi-cities pulling out of translink... which would NOT be good for the region.

baggab
12-30-2006, 10:17 PM
Translink deals with the entire region. It is for this reason that translink must put the Evergreen line on the map, or rish the TRi-cities pulling out of translink... which would NOT be good for the region.

That might actually be a good thing... Those areas get alot of service for the amount of ridership they have.

Mass Transit, is for a dense population. Too much money is wasted on suburban areas.



When you live far from where you work, you choose the geographical challenges that goes along with it and houses are priced accordingly to those difficulties, among other facters as well.





Also that article refers to the inadequate service on the snowstorm, Which shut down several hundred buses in the Vancouver Transit Center(possibly other buses in other juristictions as well). For example, the Number 16 Arbutus/29th Avenue Station, only had 1 bus running the route for the first half of the day.

Translink is also in the midst of retireing several hundred buses too, Most of which are over 20 years old. If you go by the Oakridge Transit Center, you really see how many buses have died. They refuse to repair those ones, just because new ones are along the way.

aastra
01-06-2007, 01:16 AM
The thing about the new buses is, it feels like there isn't anything to hold on to on the driver's side until you get about halfway down the length of the bus. The open concept is a bit too open, in my opinion. They might need to add an additional handhold in the no man's land at the front there.

Also, the floors seem to be quite slippery. The driver came to a very sudden stop the other night and all sorts of debris ended up sliding along the floor toward the front of the bus. I've never seen that happen before, although I suppose the open concept is also part of the reason for it.

All in all, I like them. They're very quiet and very smooth.

dubiousmike
01-06-2007, 01:50 AM
I would suggest double decker busses like Victoria has, but Vancouver has those stupid overhead wires. There must be many, many routes in Greater Vancouver that could accomodate and would benefit from the doubles, though.

Or maybe you guys already have them and I'm just talking out of my ass. Certainly wouldn't be the first time.

Jared
01-06-2007, 03:11 AM
Just a guess, but I think the trolly wires were high enough to accomodate double decker buses...

Canadian Mind
01-06-2007, 06:22 AM
depends on where you are, i've seen some where they are only a couple feet above the bus, and others where they could easily fit a double decker bus.

Vancouver should definitely invest in doubles though... here is a thought: articulated doubles?

mr.x
01-06-2007, 07:28 AM
I'm quite impressed with the acceleration of the new trolleys....unbelievable.

Overground
01-06-2007, 08:10 AM
I would suggest double decker busses like Victoria has, but Vancouver has those stupid overhead wires. There must be many, many routes in Greater Vancouver that could accomodate and would benefit from the doubles, though.

I actually emailed Translink last year about double deckers. I might have posted it on here somewhere ages ago but I can't remember.

Anyway, I got a response back from them and the guy said that they have thought about it but would possibly only use them on suburban routes or long haul routes. He then said something to the effect that it wouldn't be a good idea for somewhere like Broadway due to it being too busy and passengers having problems with the top deck.

But then I thought, if people on a really busy intersection in London like Oxford Circus can handle using double deckers then I'm sure Broadway can. At least his reply sounded somewhat positive.

vid
01-06-2007, 08:25 AM
Ever ridden a Novabus? They're built in Quebec. When they stop, they produce an unusual ear piercing sound, and when they start moving, it's like the bus is a masturbated penis, being yanked back and forth by the road. :) [note: I couldn't think of anything else to compare it to. What else moves like that? Nothing.] The Orions are worse in that regard, though. When the Orions stop if feels like they're being rear-ended, especially the Orion IIs. :/

Also, Nova buses have a really unusual seating arrangement. New Flyers may look like something out of the early 80s, but they're great busses.

Overground
01-06-2007, 08:30 AM
Ever ridden a Novabus? They're built in Quebec. When they stop, they produce an unusual ear piercing sound, and when they start moving, it's like the bus is a masturbated penis, being yanked back and forth by the road. :) [note: I couldn't think of anything else to compare it to. What else moves like that? Nothing.]

LOL! It must be late...that made me laugh.

dubiousmike
01-06-2007, 04:39 PM
Vancouver should definitely invest in doubles though... here is a thought: articulated doubles?

I actually had a conversation with a buddy some years back (while mildly intoxicated, mind you) about transit in the developing world.

And one idea we had was to build "transit modules" that are the same size and have the same connectors as a standard shipping container. That way you can mount them on the back of a truck, you can stick them on trains, and they're easy as hell to ship.

Probably wouldn't fly in Vancouver, though. Not exactly pretty to look at. Plus it'd be a hell of a step to get into them. You'd probably need a ladder.

vid
01-06-2007, 08:15 PM
Articulated doubles?? Dear God, no. Do you know how that would look???? Eww!

Doubles would probably look good. Articulated buses would probably work, combining them would be a sin.

renthefinn
01-07-2007, 12:18 AM
^they'd look damn sexy!

twoNeurons
01-07-2007, 02:13 AM
^ Which is 10x more sexy than just regular sexy.

renthefinn
01-07-2007, 02:26 AM
^that's what the damn was for!



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