[SpongeG]

747 is the biggest currently right?

there are working on the 777 now? it will be bigger?

so is a 737 smaller than the 737 and a 757 is bigger than a 747?

do the numbers correspond to size or not?

[urbanflyer]

the numbers have nothing to do with size.

The 747 is currently the largest, yes. The first Boeing jetliner was the 707, then came the 727, 737, and 747. The 757 and 767 were developed at the same time in the early 1980s. The 777 entered service in 1995.

The design currently being worked on is the 787, which is between a 767 and 777 in size and will enter service in 2009. The 747-8 is currently being developed also and will be the largest Boeing when it enters service.

[officedweller]

The numbers are chronological and correspond to the order in which the planes were developed.

[WHY-T]

The numbering of Boeing's planes are not related to their size, but I believe they are in the order of their creation. The only exception is the 717 (which is now out of production), this plane is basically an inherited design of the MD-95 of MacDonald-Douglas when Boeing bought the company in the early 90s.

Boeing's first commercial jet was the 707, developed in the 60s. It is a 4-engine narrow-body (single-aisle) plane. Then, there's the 727, narrow-body with 3 engines. The 737 is a very popular twin-engine single-aisle jet, I think it's in fact the most produced aircraft type so far. It was developed in the 60s/70s, but in the 90s they came up with some revised, improved models of the series. The 757 is the largest of Boeing's single-aisle plane and was developed in the late 70s/early 80s together with the 767.

The 747 is indeed the lagest of Boeing's commercial jets and it is also currently the fastest of all commercial jets. It is a wide-body jet (twin-aisle) with an upper-deck at the front, developed in the 60s. The 767 is the smallest wide-body plane, which was developed with the 757. They have common system features that allow operational commonalities between both types. The 777 is the most recent plane of the Boeing family from the early 90s. It is an intermediate sized plane between 767 and 747. It is twin engine wide-body plane that features one of the largest jet engines and the 777-200LR series holds currently the longest flying range of commercial aircrafts.

Boeing's newest development is the 787. It is to be an improved plane from the 767 that will feature 777 flight range. I think the first prototype is in the process of being built for testing and first delivery is expected to be around 2008/2009.

[urbanflyer]

^
one minor thing - the 707 was developed in the late 1950s :)

also there have been two versions of the 717.

[Daquan13]

747 is the biggest currently right?

there are working on the 777 now? it will be bigger?

so is a 737 smaller than the 737 and a 757 is bigger than a 747?

do the numbers correspond to size or not?



Also, the 777 is about a foot narrower in cabin width than the 747- 19 feet wide. The 747's cabin width is 20 feet wide. But looking at the 777's huge spacious interior, you might not think so!!

The 787 Dreamliner will be about a foot narrower than the 777. Add to that Boeing's 2nd jetliner series that will have a perfectly circular fuselage like the 777!

The 767 is a foot narrower than the Dreamliner.

And the 737 & 757 are about the same cabin width as the old 707 and 727.

At first, Boeing was going to go with a re-stretched and re-engined 767 as the new airliner in the late '80s, longer than the -300, but the airlines wanted something much bigger and wider than a 767. Thus, the next higher number, the 777 was thought of and developed.

With huge monster engines and a giant wing span almost the size of the 747's wing.

[Stratosphere]

So after 797, then what? 808? Speaking of 797, I wonder what kind of aircraft it will be.

[The Chemist]

So after 797, then what? 808? Speaking of 797, I wonder what kind of aircraft it will be.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the 797 as the 737 replacement.

Boeing's going to go Hexadecimal for the next model after the 797, so it'll be the 7A7! :D

[WHY-T]

^
one minor thing - the 707 was developed in the late 1950s :)

also there have been two versions of the 717.
Thanks for pointing it out.:tup:
I was just typing that out of my head at 3am, so I might have skipped a few things.

[WHY-T]

Edit: Double post

[JiminyCricket II]

it's pretty common rumor that the next boeing product will be the 737's replacement, but I doubt they're in any kind of hurry because of the huge backlog of that family, i'm guessing at least a decade before that replacement even starts development (they'll want the latest available technology, so no reason to start now.)

btw, it seems the us carriers are starting to order some planes again, i think delta "secretly" bought 73-700s and -800s, and i think they even ordered some 77-200LRs, I don't think Boeing is actually making any money on the actual planes, but I think they're getting a sweet deal in the bankruptcy claim, I know Delta owes them billions of $$$. And Delta is pretty loyal Boeing customer where the carrier trying to buy them out, U.S. Airways, is not. So I'm thinking Boeing will try to keep Delta an independent customer if they can.

wow that was off topic. :)

[WonderlandPark]

Tell me this, why does Boeing not start with new series numbers? Like the 787 starts with the 800 series, not 100 (or low numbers) like every other model it has done before? The 747 started as the 747-100 then to the current -400 then jumps to -800. What gives? I hope the explanation is NOT that 8 is lucky in China.

[Daquan13]

it's pretty common rumor that the next boeing product will be the 737's replacement, but I doubt they're in any kind of hurry because of the huge backlog of that family, i'm guessing at least a decade before that replacement even starts development (they'll want the latest available technology, so no reason to start now.)

btw, it seems the us carriers are starting to order some planes again, i think delta "secretly" bought 73-700s and -800s, and i think they even ordered some 77-200LRs, I don't think Boeing is actually making any money on the actual planes, but I think they're getting a sweet deal in the bankruptcy claim, I know Delta owes them billions of $$$. And Delta is pretty loyal Boeing customer where the carrier trying to buy them out, U.S. Airways, is not. So I'm thinking Boeing will try to keep Delta an independent customer if they can.

wow that was off topic. :)



I don't see how you don't think that Boeing is actually making making any money on the actual planes.

The 737 IS their best-selling jetliner to date - some 6,000 or more planes in all the series combined have been made and sold, with even more on the way for some of the carriers still on the list to receive them.

Runner-up is the 747 with the 777 hot on it's trail. The Dreamliner is Boeing's best-selling NEW jetliner that has captured the attention of most of the Asian carriers.

[Lexy]

Here is a pictoral representation of the Boeing family that I have collected over the last year.

Boeing 727:
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/72028756/original.jpg

Boeing 737:
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/67641153/original.jpg

Boeing 757:
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/72022198/original.jpg

Boeing 747:
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/71544362/original.jpg

Boeing 767:
http://www.pbase.com/lexyky/image/72398638/original.jpg


The only one I don't have yet is the 717, 707, and the 777. But one day......

[Daquan13]

Great pics, Lexy!! Good job!

[STR]

Model 717 was originally the civil name of the US Air Force C-135 Stratojet series, including the KC-135 aerial refueling tanker. The number 717 was almost never used in paperwork, so eventually they just rebranded the MD-95 as 717.

[urbanflyer]

Runner-up is the 747 with the 777 hot on it's trail.

The first runner up is the 727, with 1,832 orders.

Second runner up is the 747.

The 757 and 767 have both outsold the 777 to date.

Lexy, here's your missing 777 picture...sorry if it's a bit far from BNA ;)

http://www.pbase.com/cityflyer/image/72482804/original.jpg

[WonderlandPark]

^^ Osaka? Waterfront airport and nearby waters capable of hosting freighters. Could also be Hong Kong, but this sort of view is far from the terminal building.

[urbanflyer]

Right here in Nagoya...just posted a bunch of photos from yesterday

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=122874

[WonderlandPark]

Oh, yeah, fogot Nagoya has a "island" airport.

[JiminyCricket II]

I don't see how you don't think that Boeing is actually making making any money on the actual planes.

The 737 IS their best-selling jetliner to date - some 6,000 or more planes in all the series combined have been made and sold, with even more on the way for some of the carriers still on the list to receive them.

Runner-up is the 747 with the 777 hot on it's trail. The Dreamliner is Boeing's best-selling NEW jetliner that has captured the attention of most of the Asian carriers.

what i'm trying to say is that boeing is selling the planes on the delta order for peanuts(maybe even losing money), in hopes of keeping delta alive(as an independent) instead of being taken over by u.s. airways(a not so boeing faithful) so delta can buy more boeing planes in the future, if that makes sense.

[Daquan13]

Sorry.

Sometimes Boeing will do that just to keep a plane's sales alive and healthy, or they'll cut a deal where Delta will save some money by buying so many planes. And Boeing won't suffer too much of a loss.

Airlines do that also with the passengers too, especially since 09-11. They'll are sometimes forced to offer tickets at a low fare range because they don't want to lose the pax to a competitor.

A friend of mine told me that in the '80s he and a coworker once flew on a Delta 727 from Miami to Boston. There weren't that many pax onboard. He said to the captain; "Where are all the passengers?"

The captian's reply was "You guys are just gravy to us. Our bread & butter is down below." Today, it would seem like their "bread & butter" is in the cabin!

Because now the passengers seem more important than cargo these days.

[urbanflyer]

For starters, passengers are more important than cargo, but only if we're talking about premium passengers. First/business class passengers bring three times the revenue that economy passengers do - which is the primary reason the world's premier international carriers compete on the basis of their premium service offerings while economy is generally the same with minor differences between airlines. Cargo charges and contracts are incredibly lucrative and on many transatlantic or transpacific flights even if economy class were empty a profit can still be made on the flight if the cargo containers are full.

However, in recent years, particularly due to the US's continually weakening export position, many airlines are seeing fewer and fewer cargo revenues.

what i'm trying to say is that boeing is selling the planes on the delta order for peanuts(maybe even losing money), in hopes of keeping delta alive(as an independent) instead of being taken over by u.s. airways(a not so boeing faithful) so delta can buy more boeing planes in the future, if that makes sense.

In this case, something should be clarified. Delta did not order additional 777s secretly that were handed to them at a bargain basement discount. I don't know about the 738 orders, but the 777-200LR orders were converted from previous -200ER options that Delta had already put deposits on more than five years ago.

[Lexy]

Great pics, Lexy!! Good job!

Thank you.

Urb, thanks for posting that. I thought it would be easier to talk about these if we had some reference to go by.

[Daquan13]

For starters, passengers are more important than cargo, but only if we're talking about premium passengers. First/business class passengers bring three times the revenue that economy passengers do - which is the primary reason the world's premier international carriers compete on the basis of their premium service offerings while economy is generally the same with minor differences between airlines. Cargo charges and contracts are incredibly lucrative and on many transatlantic or transpacific flights even if economy class were empty a profit can still be made on the flight if the cargo containers are full.

However, in recent years, particularly due to the US's continually weakening export position, many airlines are seeing fewer and fewer cargo revenues.

what i'm trying to say is that boeing is selling the planes on the delta order for peanuts(maybe even losing money), in hopes of keeping delta alive(as an independent) instead of being taken over by u.s. airways(a not so boeing faithful) so delta can buy more boeing planes in the future, if that makes sense.

In this case, something should be clarified. Delta did not order additional 777s secretly that were handed to them at a bargain basement discount. I don't know about the 738 orders, but the 777-200LR orders were converted from previous -200ER options that Delta had already put deposits on more than five years ago.



You're welcome, Lexy!

urbanflyer, I DID read somewhere about that time five years ago that Delta DID INDEED order a batch of planes which included some 777s and 737s.

And that the 737s WERE IN FACT sold to them pratically at "bargan basement discount" prices as part of the deal Boeing somehow made with Delta.

Delta is one of Boeing's long-standing loyal customers, so I guess that counts for something when it comes to them ordering new planes from Boeing.

[Lexy]

Delta is one of Boeing's long-standing loyal customers, so I guess that counts for something when it comes to them ordering new planes from Boeing.

It absolutely does. Especially with Airbus breathing down everyone's neck here recently. LOL!!

[Daquan13]

I think Airbus has some cleaning up to do in their own backyard before they can go back on the campain to sell their planes.

Case in point; the models A-380 and A-330. The A-350 program has received the official word to start being developed.

[lubicon]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the 797 as the 737 replacement.

Boeing's going to go Hexadecimal for the next model after the 797, so it'll be the 7A7! :D

I think you are right Chemist, and that the 737 replacement will be a smaller version of the 787 using the new composite technology. I'm thinking Boeing is going to get the process figured out with the 787 and then apply it to the 737 replacement. I toured the 737 facility in Renton this spring and the Boeing guy who showed us around was very evasive when we inquired whether or not they were working on a 737 replacement and if it would use 787 technology.

[tayser]

cant wait for the 787, Qantarse can finally kill off their 767s which should have died a horrible death 10 years ago.

[Daquan13]

Some of the airlines are still ordering 767s. Not many though.

And there's no word yet from Boeing that they plan to stop making the plane.

[Lexy]

And there's no word yet from Boeing that they plan to stop making the plane.


They learned their lesson from the 757 debacle. The need for 757's is greater now than when they were introduced. Of course, Boeing cut production out too soon and now there is a shortage of 757's for domestic and shorter international routes. The 767 could be utilized on larger domestic routes or shorter international routes much like the 757 is being used. Boeing will milk that cow until it runs completely dry IMO. Or atleast until 737-900 orders pick up.

[JiminyCricket II]

i don't know that it was a debacle... they needed the 757 lines(more like line) in Renton for the incredibly long, and growing, backlog of 737 orders. Despite what this boards feeling are for the 757(and I love it too!) it was a dying breed and honestly wasting much needed space.

[Lexy]

i don't know that it was a debacle... they needed the 757 lines(more like line) in Renton for the incredibly long, and growing, backlog of 737 orders. Despite what this boards feeling are for the 757(and I love it too!) it was a dying breed and honestly wasting much needed space.


Perhaps, but the simple fact is Delta bought a number of the old TWA 75's here a few months ago because they needed them for their growing domestic flights. FedEx is in the market for a crap-load of them right now. Space they may have took up, but most would agree that the plane's production was cut way too short. Don't get me wrong, I love that airplane, but even I can see the drawbacks of it. One of them being a narrowbody and a carbon copy of a 767 for the most part.

[Daquan13]

They learned their lesson from the 757 debacle. The need for 757's is greater now than when they were introduced. Of course, Boeing cut production out too soon and now there is a shortage of 757's for domestic and shorter international routes. The 767 could be utilized on larger domestic routes or shorter international routes much like the 757 is being used. Boeing will milk that cow until it runs completely dry IMO. Or atleast until 737-900 orders pick up.



Boeing has recently introduced the 737's newest varient - the 737-700ER, which is a smaller version of the 737-900ER.

The plane can fly ocean-to-ocean nonstop.:banana:

Boeing felt that the 757 wasn't getting any more sales potential and they killed it off, like you said, possibly too early. And the latest varients of the 737 are supposed to fill the spot left vacant by the now-defunct 757.

[sammyk]

Perhaps, but the simple fact is Delta bought a number of the old TWA 75's here a few months ago because they needed them for their growing domestic flights. FedEx is in the market for a crap-load of them right now. Space they may have took up, but most would agree that the plane's production was cut way too short. Don't get me wrong, I love that airplane, but even I can see the drawbacks of it. One of them being a narrowbody and a carbon copy of a 767 for the most part.

This argument always seems to come up after a model is discontinued. My question is why didn't these airlines buy them when they were still offered? Why didn't LH Cargo buy more MD-11s when they were still in production? Why didn't DL, FedEx, or anyone else "needing" 757s buy more when available? My guess is that they didn't want new ones. I doubt FedEx would have bought 90 brand new 757s. This would have cost a lot more than buying second hand and converting them. As for Delta, they aren't in a position to buy anything so they probably would have looked to the second hand market anyway. Who else is in great need of more 757s?

From the looks of it the 757 and 787 (to some extent) will fill the role of the 757. The 737RS will probably cover that market too.

[sammyk]

Boeing has recently introduced the 737's newest varient - the 737-700ER, which is a smaller version of the 737-900ER.

The plane can fly ocean-to-ocean nonstop.:banana:


Yah with only 48 passengers as a 'Business Jet' service. Kinda like Privatair I guess.

[Capt AWACS]

No not like privatair- the 737-ER are longer range full service models.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings

[sammyk]

No not like privatair- the 737-ER are longer range full service models.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings

What do you mean not like Privatair? ANAs new service seems to be exactly like Privatair's.

Here is ANAs plans for the 737-700ER:

http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/press/2006/061225.html

Here is a Privatair brochure, see page 7, their seating config is similar to ANAs new product:

http://www.privatair.com/_library/brochures/Private_Airline_Service.pdf

[Capt AWACS]

The "service" is like Privat Air's (like their AMS-IAH service for example) but the plane is not.

I guess I mis-read your post as saying the 700-ER was a Business Jet meaning Boeing BBJ which it is not. If so my bad as the kids say.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I'd like to supersize that with a diet coke

[sammyk]

Nah, I know it's not an official BBJ, 'Business Jet' is just the name of ANAs product. The -700ER is inspired by the BBJ though, per Boeing.

[Capt AWACS]

true! different wings and tanks otherwise very very similar.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Cats are furry little people eh

[Daquan13]

Yah with only 48 passengers as a 'Business Jet' service. Kinda like Privatair I guess.



That's if co's like Privatair want to use it as a business jet.

Of course, the airlines can still get it as a regular passenger jetliner.

[urbanflyer]

Can't wait to take ANA's new premium service as all of their 737NG fleet is based out of NGO. The first route to use the new 48 seat service is NGO-CAN, primarily to shuttle Toyota engineers and personnel to the large production facilities they've established in Guangzhou.

[sammyk]

That's if co's like Privatair want to use it as a business jet.

Of course, the airlines can still get it as a regular passenger jetliner.

There would be no point to this as it would likely not be able to go 5,000+ miles with a typical passenger load which is really the point of this version.

[Daquan13]

There would be no point to this as it would likely not be able to go 5,000+ miles with a typical passenger load which is really the point of this version.



Then if the airlines bought it for passenger service, it would possibly be a short haul. Like the earlier 737s.

[SpongeG]

ah ok thanks for the info...

i always wondered if it was size or something - chronological makes sense

[sammyk]

Then if the airlines bought it for passenger service, it would possibly be a short haul. Like the earlier 737s.

Then they wouldn't be buying the ER version.

[urbanflyer]

:laugh: